They also had countless scientific experiments to run, samples to collect, etc. In Starfield, you don't gain anything by collecting moon dust or doing actual science because it's not part of the game. They did more than just walk around on the moon.
@@tomd96the moons hes specifically talking about tho are moons you generally spend like 3mins on. If you're on an empty moon the scan shows you. If you spend 30mins on it then...well that's cool I guess lol
There is a line between a respectful developer who learn from mistakes and never give up on their game with a developer who expects people to enjoy their mistakes and claim their product is not a defect. NMS wanted to ensure they can reach the end product like what they show back then while SF just care for nothing so they let the player to fix their mistakes.
NMS HAS empty planets (terraforming catastrophes, etc) but they're uncommon, which is precisely what makes them great. They're great for material extraction still, but also the low gravity due to a nearly non-existant atmosphere means you can get some absolutely insane jumps on an exocraft
People also talk about the load screen problems with that game. They need to go back and fix those issues. Get rid of like 99% of the procedural generated planets, focus on like 10. Pull a Jedi survivor/fallen order and design the planet areas you visit well.
There was science to do. Moon rock to poke. Starfield has no *science*. There's like, 2 xenobotanists and they've got a feud, and everyone thinks the guy who is talking about a near-extinct alien tree is crazy. AND the writing can't even decide if there's mail/e-mail or not. They barely have radios. The only explorers are hobbyists and everyone thinks they're crazy, even when they have alien artifacts. Even when you come back with space magic. It's a really badly written game with no narrative vision. And empty, boring-ass planets that the NPCs don't even want to explore.
sole reason every was no fascinated we have seen plajets but weve never been there moon rocks, flags, footage, so many things made being on the moon a marvel because itd never been done before why aam i gonna fly to an empty planet in a world where we have evolved to multiplanet travel
Let’s not discount the fact that.. yenno, they were on the *fucking* moon. In space. With low gravity. Making history. An experience like that cannot even be fathomed, even if they didn’t have anything to do, the essence of that moment isn’t going to be captured by Bugthesda’s bland copy/paste worlds.
To be honest, the moon statement ia weird as shit, but when I think about it, "some planets are empty by design" kinda makes sense. Like it would make discovery of something cool feel much more important. Think about how horror games (and films too) are made. You are given not only the creepy horrific scenes that make your blood boil, but also calm and safe places to get you out of the cautious state, this way the next scare is more effective. Not defending starfield though, peeps say it's trash and I believe them
That's also one of the key points he made: The Real-Life Astronauts were DOING STUFF there, We in the video game are not doing enough to justify the amount of time/hours they may want you to spend in that space.
In a game that markets itself as an open world exploration game, having planets with nothing on them feels like unfinished content. There isn't anything there to explore, it's just a barren rock. "Oh but that's you exploring a new planet player, isn't that exciting!?" No, there is no actual content there, its just nothing, there is nothing to do on said planet except leave to one that has things on it. Waste of our time to pad the play time by waiting on loading screens.
I feel like he’s gonna hit 1 mil in the middle of the night for me and I’m gonna miss it. That’s okay though, I was there for the world record, so I’m content.
Also, yes going to the moon WAS boring. They literally ended the Apollo missions because people stopped watching the launch and mission broadcasts, which generated a lot of funding for them. People got bored of the moon once they knew there was nothing interesting to find there.
@@maitiu6802 A storm bigger than the planet Earth that has wind speeds that would melt glass that has been going on for literal centuries at least. - Jupiter A cloud of comets so thick and large that it creates a literal disc that can be observed hundreds of trillions of miles away, twice. - Saturn & Uranus A frozen moon that may or may not have life living underneath its icy surface due to an atmosphere that resembles Earth's own atmosphere save the chemical composition that its been nicknamed "Earth's twin". - Titan A planet covered in thick toxic gases that some scientists speculate could be the Earth's own future and is still considered habitable in the upper atmosphere and Nasa already has ideas for how to build flying cities on the planet in such way that it doesn't even have a cost of fuel to maintain, only an upfront construction cost to keep it floating. - Venus And that's just a few of the facts about our own solar system. Edit: Cited the planets and moons I'm talking about.
I almost exclusively play CoD WW2. Working on getting the PS2 version so I can play that again. Already completed the one on the PS3. Those are the best Cod games imo. God bless the folks who worked at Treyarch back then.
This is so wild. I thought this was some pleb defending the game, not one of the actual (also pleeb, in this case) developers trying to defend something they should know sucks and is boring for players.
its funny because im shouting that at people all the time....and i have to tell that to people that could fire me at will. (thanks to the gaming gods they know im right and they f'd up and are good human beings who can take the L)
Lots of companies lack PR responses nowadays. It's sad to see what basically amounts to immature childish responses from these companies as if that fixes the problem.
@@mannanici8206That's the stupidest advice I've ever got told by my parents. My homework it's NOT a videogame, it's not anywhere near close at what makes videogames interesting for me, and the act of standing in front of a flat surface for hours it's not the reason anyone likes videogames. "Pretend your homework it's like a videogame" is the most "I don't play videogames" thing you could come up with to your son, and oh God I had to let it out.
@@jamesrosewell9081 they're a shining example of a terrible developer. Skyrim Special Edition: Anniversary: VR Anniversary: 10th year Anniversary for the switch looks great though
@@jamesrosewell9081seriously they refuse to change their development methods and just keep making the same games in the same terrible ways then when people get mad and say hey wtf they're always just like what do you not enjoy Skyrim again but not as good? Is that not good enough?
It's like if you were playing DnD and the DM stripped out all the magical classes and abilities because "You don't have magic in real life but you still have fun."
So your logic is because you're gamers you demand millions of planets to be filled with life and cities even if it's based on our god damn universe hmm 🤔
Open world doesn't mean every planet is supposed to have mega cities and ecosystems! It's a space game based on our universe last time I checked there's no life forms like what you want and mega cities in our fucking universe! So Mars is empty? Then how does each planet exist if they are empty hmm?
For real. 99% of open world games are just huge, empty, lifeless, and boring. If your game's only selling point is how big the world is, your game is trash.
Imagine the sheer unbridled hubris of thinking you are on par with space race era NASA (astronauts) because you managed to create an empty map that feels boring to explore…
Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin enter the Apollo after a loading screen. Take off. another loading screen. Landed. another loading screen. Then held the W key for about 45 minutes. Then disembarked with another loading screen. Then landed after another loading screen. Yeah I see how that's a one-to-one comparison! ❤ lol
Someone pointed out "The astronauts weren't bored because NASA gave them a shitload of things to do. In a video game, we call those _quests_ " and that has lived in my head ever since I read it.
Yeah I think on the first mission they barely got any sleep cuz of the work load and the noise of the tiny lander, they were genuinely worried about take off because of how sleep deprived they were.
@@trouty7947 also any kind of failure to take off, miscalculations cuz iirc they had to made a course correction and weren't sure they packed enough fuel?
Elite dangerous fixes the empty planets problem by having structures placed randomly in the galaxy for you to descover, and there's tons of materials and interesting landforms to explore with each planet type
@@vanillaicecream2385 I really enjoyed ED, quite possibly my favorite sound design in any game ever (VR/Headphones utterly transform the experience!) - but I'd be lying if I said that it held my attention or felt like there wasn't something missing from that experience, too (though it was much harder to determine what was missing in Elite than it is with a Spacerim)
I mean... It's kinda unrealistic that everyone is gonna start talking to you. How many times have you walked up to a random stranger and struck up a conversion. And no, people working in shops or restaurants do not count. Nor do people trying to sell you something.
Literally starfield would have been way been way better if the game was only a small star system with 50 planets 25 of which where full fleshed out with stories and factions and maybe 20 minor planets with some interesting points but more for world building and smaller quest lines then like 5 just pure near empty resources mining/building planets. Literally an example of less is more.
@@breadtoaster1011 at least in those situations, the developers weren't literally saying that you are playing the game wrong. at least those devs were being honest about their motives (or it was so obvious that it couldn't be hidden like with EA).
I remember seeing something about starfield years and years and years ago. I legit cried when I found out it wasn’t coming out for a really long time ( I was like 10 alright). All that time, all that hope, and now it’s here and I wish I could go back and stop myself from ever finding out about it.
When you own up to a mistake or shortfall, it often leaves the public eye quicker and it gives the trolls less ammo. When you double down on the mistake, you immortalize your incompetence into the form of a meme that constantly reminds everyone of your mistake.
"uuhh... Houston? we got a problem. There's nothing to do on the Moon.. this was a giant leap of boredom, but a small burst from our rocket should take us home"
I used to work in a PR company. Your full time job is convincing boomer clients that your useless services are worth it, and then acting like the half arsed ideas of your managers are good. PR is a cesspool for people who either waiting to move into move into journalism, MBAs who couldn't get anywhere else, economics grads who really should have done journalism and designers like me who just needed a job. The only people qualified to do PR are people with a design or marketing background, but there's this wierd "prestige" system which means eco and journalism guys take point. So those who understood how social media actually works and how consumers react were given lowest priority. Why? Because PR was once about working with newspapers and analyzing market trends. That was like 40 years ago. Now it's just glorified social media management. This is why modern PR teams are so bad and whh so many companies release seemingly absurd and tone deaf statements on social media.
Apparently you people don't know what empty means! You know it's quite sad so many ungrateful entitled shits these days when it takes real astronauts to go explore other planets but now we have the technology to explore them anytime we want sure it may not be an exact replica of the planets but accurate enough yet you people demand millions of planets that's based on our universe to be teeming with life and mega cities!
Methbesda? I know they suck and their games are boring now but like… nothing about methbesda makes sense?? Being on meth applies that the game would, at the very least, be fast paced
@@basilciccone1679The thing with meth is that people who abuse it often think their ideas are a lot better than they actually are. Cokeheads are even worse lmao
"The people who went one time in their whole life and saw something completely new to mankind is exactly like a procedural survival crafting game from 2015"
Quick Reminder that Buzz aldrin punched someone who said the moon landing was fake. I suggest someone show this to buzz and request that he punch whoever wrote it.
@@miriamweller812what the OP was trying to say (or I believe so) was that it's a bad response to a good criticism. Yes, people were thrilled to go to the moon, and realistically, you won't find much in most of the planets nearby. BUT THIS IS A GAME! supposedly designed to keep players engaged and interested, making empty planets it's a bad move, and defending it by pretty much saying "oh but when we did it for the first time in real life there was also nothing but we loved it!" - yeah no shit, we loved it because of the technological advancements that they signified, not because the moon was empty.
I did tutorial of allocating energy into grav drive to jump between planets and stuff > spent hours building ship > accept optional quest / bounty > goto journal / map to set waypont > will not set waypoint unless I instantly fast travel / jump to destination > jump to destination (now waypoint useless cause I in destination) > what was point of grav drive tutorial? > thought I'd deal with some bad guys on way to destination and find something interesting > where am I now? what system / planet was I on before? > am now lost due to instant teleportation. Ok sure then don't use "fast travel", the game literally forces you to use fast travel, you cannot accept a bounty, set a waypoint and manually jump to each system.
Blizzard and jagex both tried saying this and both were so wrong I'm surprised other companies haven't taken notice. Osrs and wow classic both almost never existed because the top devs thought people didn't actually want it. I'm not too sure about wow classic but I know osrs is much larger than rs3.
@@travwolfe101Classic WoW skyrocketed their numbers, and Classic Hardcore as well. "The Customer is always right" originally meant they're always right in WHAT THEY WANT. And it's fucking true. Blizzard is just run and populated by dipshits who don't game, who don't care, and are out of touch with basic human desires.
@@lord_haven1114 He'd probably occupy his mind with how to apply it to benefit the nation in major ways more than just mess around with numbers and graphs.
Honestly this is a bit of a false comparison, Excel doesn't lie about being exciting, and I certainly don't find it boring. Tedious, perhaps, but not boring. But starfield is a video game with the intent of being interesting, which an empty map is not
@@viserproductions1 Yo no hate to you homie, but boring and tedious are synonyms. Like, Google tedious, boring is in the list of synonyms. Click on boring and it'll say "not interesting; tedious." That SAID I totally get what you mean and agree! Excel is a complete system with a lot of inner workings to it that are used to efficiently complete tasks, and as a result, while it's not fun, it's still engaging. Cheers!
Bethesda really forgot the many sample collections, EVA tests, and the countless hours of manpower back on Earth spent not only trying to make the moon landing happen but analyzing the data being sent back. They didn’t just land, step out into a featureless landscape and go, _”Yep!”_ and then fuckin’ leave - like players do now, because there’s literally no content, gameplay, resources, or even scientific / exploratory points of interest there.
LOL even bioware did this better. There were empty planets in ME1 you could land on that had a few points of interest but were ultimately boring. They learned their lesson in the sequels and those planets were only accessible by probes which gathered resources from them.
A great way to see the difference? Look at the game Kerbal Space Program. The whole damn GAME is "going to empty planets" but people love it because you DO in fact have to do EVA tests, sample collections, and building rockets to face the challenges you will meet to get that stuff. And it's fun as hell.
@@jonasfree2I agree. One of the best parts of ksp are the landing and ascent attempts. Because all the planets and moons are different and you having manual control, no two landings and takeoffs are the same. I feel if Starfield gave us manual control and have to take in account the gravity and atmospheric drag from each celestial body we visited. The exploration would be a lot more fun. Instead we got the same 2 or 3 cutscenes after we pushed a button to land on a celestial body. Boring.
nah this is actually worse blizzard said "you don't want that thing you don't have, you just remember it better" bethesda said "what you are currently experiencing is incorrect" i mean blizzard does that too, but these 2 statements being compared = bethesda loses big time
Thor actually has a short where he defends the guy that says that and explains that he actually had a really ambitious design for the game and was just doing the best with what he had. The phones thing was just him being nervous and socially awkward.
"In the real world, I have to write up lists of stuff I have to go to the grocery store to buy. And I have never thought to myself that realism is fun. I go play games to have fun." - Gabe Newell, VALVE, 2023
The one thing has not much to do with the other. A few games manage to get rid of the most obvious loading screens at the cost of being always on multiplayer games, and suddenly loading screen are like cancer? I grew up having really long loading screens for everything in games.
@@T0gharloadingscreens have absolutely nothing to do with games being multiplayer or not. It's just bad coding (hiding them within gameplay) and an old engine.
“Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin weren’t bored when *they* went to the moon, so what, you think you’re better than fuckin astronauts or sum’ dude?” -Bethesda
@@BigGreenThreadsall 12 people who have landed on the moon have been americans. There have been unmanned missions, which doesnt seem to be the context the op is refering to.
@@HauntingSpectre tbh even then they had a lot of stuff to do on the boat itself, maintenance, controlling sails etc. It is the difference of flying on a flight simulator in empty skies or flying in a game where the plane is heading where your mouse is and the sky is still empty. In one flying feels more rewarding and you get a sense of comparison. In the other, well... it is just boring
@@offensichtlichfabianno you fucking can't. If someone isn't having fun, then they're simply not having fun. No amount of debating them will get them to start having fun. You're just being a tool
Bethesda didnt try something and fail , they achieved EXACTLY what they set out to do.. 1. Create super ultra mega hypetrain 2. Capitalise on expectations 3. Release half arsed game after purposefully cutting as many corners as humanly possible to maximise profit vs creation cost. 4. Get Todd to say sorry with puppy face 5. Announce goodwill fixes and monetized DLC 6. Capitalise on expecations 7. Get Todd to say Sorry again if necessary 8. Repeat till announcing Fallout 5 9. Create super ultra mega hypetrain 10. Capitalise 11. Get Todd to........ Starfield is dogshit and they knew that long before they stuck $$$$$ stickers on it but they also know that theres a player base out there who refuse to accept they are being milked because they hang onto the nostaligia of games created 3 decades ago.
As alluded, the moon was far from empty. It was actually a pretty intense time crunch to get all of the samples and data they wanted And by time crunch I mean they literally had a limited supply of atmosphere
@@mryellow6918the lure of ksp for me was always the challenge of "can i do it" once id made a few ships that could get anywhere and had a station on duna that put me game to 10fps when it rendered in I lost almost all interest. I never cared if there was nothing to find but a fast travel loading screen would never be able to pull me in like that lol.
Yeah this is me. I spent a lot more time, and had a lot more fun, in the VAB building, and planning and such. Once you launch the rocket, you plan a burn, you burn, you hold fast forward for a few in-game years, you plan another burn, you burn, you land, you click "do experiment" a few times...and the mission is complete.@@fingmoron
That is a good quote. "A mild wide, and an inch deep." - Starfield. Best description I've ever had of the game. I put 100 hours into, and only because there were no other games. I'm dying, can't afford new games so whatever is on game pass for X1 is all I got. Starfield was it. I shyte you not. I used the same pistol nearly the entire time I played since nothing better could drop. No better quest rewards. Quests or exploration even didn't give you anything worthwhile, period. There was no carrot. Just a stick to nothing. Astronauts played golf in low gravity. How about that Bethesda?! No golf mini game or dune buggy. So the astronauts did in fact do more.
@@dianapennepacker6854 you literally just described fallout newvegas. starting gun best gun. maybe actually try and enjoy the game if your min maxing bethesda games really arent for you, minmax your stats, not your gear. you know?
@@beatles42ohgg94did you really just try and use a FLAW from a game made in the mid 2000s to justify why a game in the 2020 *still has* that same unnecessary Flaw that completely invalidates the gameplay loop of collecting loot from enemies?? Just admit that you wasted 60 bucks and 100 hours and you're just gaslighting yourself and everyone else into thinking this was a worthwhile purchase. Bethesda Scammed you. You deserved better
@beatles42ohgg94 fallout new vegas is shallow? I dunno 'bout that one chief. Also I'm about 99% sure that wide as an ocean deep as a puddle line was used in a review of fallout 3 like, 4-5 years ago. But it's a good quote and describes a lot of games pretty well tbh.
@@beatles42ohgg94You going to try telling us that's a chocolate cake you're eating next? If you keep defending it, they'll continue to let you eat "cake". By your logic, why even put gear in the game then?
Astronauts had so much tension because death could happen at any moment and they were finally doing what they trained for years. The biggest moment in their whole life.
Literally one of the biggest moments in human history, the crowning achievement of our effort as a species. And those are just some textured polygons. Fucking lmao
@@SinyaoGunz The Duel had its entire game design tossed in the bin because you could be nigh immune to everything to the entire point of the game just by mashing left and right click with a sword.
That could be a good thing, see Tribes. The game defining mechanic was a bug players exploited and the devs embraced as part of the franchise. In this case, not so much.
You know, Mass Effect had planets that were empty by design. When you went to them you basically got a small paragraph of text telling you whatever you got from it in resources, then you could move on with the gameplay.
@@muffinboi4134 yes, but imagine if they also made you land on the planet and derp around for 5 minutes each time! That's Bethesda providing you content!
Crazy how you can do so many cool experiments on the planets in startfield like: scan plant, scan animal, scan rock, acquire plant, acquire animal, acquire rock, build, kill things. Such a refreshing game design to compare to the fucking moon landings that HAD A ROVER THAT YOU COULD DRIVE FOR FUN!
@@pembertr0nI would've straight up preferred a Science-Fantasy blend with magic portals in the spaceships. At least it would make use of their experience remaking Skyrim.
@pembertr0n I stopped playing a month after it released. No man sky, being a 15gb Game, compared to midfields 100+?? Nms ain't a loading screen sim, you literally land and take off from plants. Leave midfield behind, join us
They really compared booting up a game for an hour to humanity accomplishing an incredible feat that most deemed impossible not that long prior, just to not have to admit that the game is bad.
This wasn’t written for players it was written for share holders. “No guys for real our ideas weren’t bad and the company isn’t stagnant. The filthy peasants just don’t understand it”
@@nukeninmgt1504 yes one that was one of the first things that pops on on Google. Like what a share holder would look for after a new product gets released
Bethesda has a specific kind of mental formula for the player to follow, the player must meditate and imagine an amazing game while Bethesda provides the quiet, empty space that is required
@@ogoncio5916this is how i played fallout 4 and 76, bethesda is excellent at environmental storytelling when they actually try, so i just ingore the npcs and think about piecing together the environmental storytelling of an area.
"We put in a ton of extra planets with resources to harvest and room to build" "We decided to make most planets empty because we wanted it to feel like a discovery when you *do* find something, instead of every planet just being a set of dungeons to complete" "We wanted space to feel big, but it's just not feasible to handcraft millions of dungeons and stories in a single game, so we made what we could" *Any* explanation would be better than what they released.
Noone forced them to promise over 1000 planets and especially noone did force them to stick to that dumb decision. They could've done like 10 well crafted planets, some with civilization on it, some with really cool looking biomes and interesting animals and stuff and then like 10-20 empty procedually gdnerated rocks with a few cool handcrafted caves and a lot of materials to gather. The game would've been a lot better with just a fraction of the "planets" and actual space you could fly around in.
I feel like #2 is what they're trying to say, and/but that's sort of the way I feel big vast space games should be As in, capturing how big and empty space is with planets that are a whole lot of nothing extraordinary (being totally devoid of anything is too far though), and making what content _is_ hidden out there _really really_ exciting when you _do_ find it.
@@ferociousfeind8538and also another major issue is only being able to run everywhere you can only sprint across these baron planets, does the future of civilization just not understand the concept of a rover or something to help you move faster on a planets surface?
@@Thareldis Tbh I disagree with the 10 planets thing, having a galaxy does make the world feel more vast than like, Outer Worlds. That said it could have been like 50.
In a game like spore i would understand that most planets are empty because they have the worst conditions, but in spore, empty planets can still have artifacts and can still be colonised And spore was released in 2008 Come on starfield
Thats the worst part. Some games can pull this off, like Spore. Or Stellaris, a game that can loosely be described as "Sid Meyer's Civilization But with Space Travel". The difference being, those empty planets still serve an important purpose. You can gather resources and information to greatly boost your intel and research, and you're gonna be constantly hopping from planet to planet because Stellaris is a settlement simulator at its core in gameplay. Starfield is supposed to be a spacefaring FPS RPG, having huge but empty entire planets where the only purpose is to get a few extra resource drops doesn't contribute at all to the gameplay style.
The planets weren't empty by design. They were empty because of laziness and incompetence. Bethesda knew they didn't have enough prefabs to fill the play areas with content that wouldn't immediately be noticeable as repetitive. (Btw its still super repetitive just takes a few hours to see repeats instead of minutes) So what does the big storied studio do? Spend what would have been a small relative amount of money to get the level designers, artists, etc to make some more stuff to throw into the proc gen? No! Edit the proc gen instead! instead of creating 8-12 POIs on a planet. Change it to 1-3. We're problem solving! Also saying "space is empty!" is the most bullshit ass lie I've ever heard. If space being empty was actually intentional design why are there POIs on EVERY planet? Elite Dangerous does space is empty as intentional design. You can land on a moon and there will be literally nothing but rocks and dust on that bitch. A solar system with a dead star will literally be void of any activity.
Comparing flying a rocket and walking on a moon thousands of miles away from your entire home planet to clicking a button and walking around a dead, empty plane is crazy ☠️☠️
Professional response: We at Bethesda wanted to try and cover a very wide span of combinations of atmospheres and landscapes, which may include some planets completely devoid of either. We thought it would add a touch of realism and perspective to the game. In response to feedback it would appear that intention was not in favor of our player base, and we will take this into consideration with future content. Bethesda's actual response: my son said you were butthurt bc you didn't like his artistic talent? Have you considered some planets just ARE empty?!? So ungrateful. 😢
@@tinycervid7679the sad part is that you could probably just get a similar result from asking an AI to do it for you but that Bethesda dude didn't even bother with doing that..
That's pretty spot on. That shit can be done really well. First time I remember seeing something like it was TLOU scrounging around opening up empty drawers and not finding a damn thing in entire rooms. I was like, of course it's empty, it's been decades and this shit's been picked over. The idea of empty planets is great, but players don't really have that much of an attention span. Or they don't have the ability to believe the thing is empty and will just keep searching forever which will frustrate anyone.
They didn’t even commit to having truly empty planets, you land on a barren wasteland and 25 seconds later someone lands right next to you and you always stumble across remains of some kind of civilization without fail
Same exact shit is what bothered me so much about No Man’s Sky. 69 gigachadillion fucking planets and every single one of them had the remains of some long dead civilization or colonists. In both Starfield and No Man’s Sky you’re never the first to set foot somewhere and that ruins the “wonder” of truly being isolated by yourself in the middle of nowhere.
@@AleutianSailor *Enter a new System and scan the first planet you see, "You just discovered [ENTER PLANET NAME HERE]" *Get credits for being the first to discover it. Enter atmosphere and land at a SHIPYARD AND DEPOT... So much being the first one there...
@@cansagarri6749 you can almost avoid it. besides, empty planets are not totally empty. devoid of life and atmosphere, yes. not empty. there are outposts, mining and research stations, caves, etc.
EXACTLY. I think they need to stop with this obsession with including “settlement/ship building” in every game they put out. Put that time/energy into making the open world more interesting and fleshed out. I don’t care about wasting time building a spaceship- just make the game fun!!!
Did you forget Daggerfall? Most of Daggerfall is empty space and it is the single greatest RPG to ever exist, there's something called "scale" which serves to immerse you. Daggerfall had sprawling towns which took 5+ minutes to ride through on horseback, while it also had wilds that you could spend hours in. Or let's go back to a modern but beloved example, many people consider NV to be the peak of Fallout. Most of NV is empty, and that's fine because it serves for scale to make things more immersive. NV is considered to be the best Fallout game, along with 3 and 2 also being considered for that title (which both have empty sections). Furthermore, I never want to hear the same industry which proclaimed BoTW's open-world to be good that Starfield's is bad. They suffer the exact same issues, if one is bad so is the other. Lot's of things you can attack Starfield on (such as the lack of RPG elements in an RPG), the open-world part is fine people are just looking for complaints that they wouldn't ever toss at games equally deserving of this supposedly valid criticism.
Remember "No Man's Sky" when it was just released? Well there you go. They went the NMS path and ended up "Huh??? This doesn't work????" when it clearly didn't with NMS. NMS took it to heart and updated the game and now, it's an amazing game. Just take the L, and update your shit.
"Why is someone not having fun? I specifically requested it"
ah, man- this quote hits especially hard now more than ever.
Shareholders had an emergency meeting for requested fun-having not being met
@@HalcaeonArtbest character, miss him
I was literally just about to write this...
Where is the quote from
The astronauts weren't bored because they were actually on the fucking moon. I'm sitting in a chair staring at a screen
And they actually had a rover to drive
They also had countless scientific experiments to run, samples to collect, etc.
In Starfield, you don't gain anything by collecting moon dust or doing actual science because it's not part of the game.
They did more than just walk around on the moon.
@@tomd96 so you don't place mods on weapons? you're bad.
@@tomd96the moons hes specifically talking about tho are moons you generally spend like 3mins on. If you're on an empty moon the scan shows you. If you spend 30mins on it then...well that's cool I guess lol
Yeah thats what I was thinking. Physically being on the moon with low gravity would be so much fun! Doing that with a TV and controller is just -_-
No Man's Sky when people complained about empty planets: "Oops, we need to fix this."
Starfield when people complained about empty planets: "NuH-uH"
There is a line between a respectful developer who learn from mistakes and never give up on their game with a developer who expects people to enjoy their mistakes and claim their product is not a defect. NMS wanted to ensure they can reach the end product like what they show back then while SF just care for nothing so they let the player to fix their mistakes.
Star citizen: oh we hid some wrecks and such. Even put a race track in secret that nownis offical
NMS HAS empty planets (terraforming catastrophes, etc) but they're uncommon, which is precisely what makes them great. They're great for material extraction still, but also the low gravity due to a nearly non-existant atmosphere means you can get some absolutely insane jumps on an exocraft
@VertietRyper please don't tell me you think gravity comes from having an atmosphere
@@patrickhector NMS is a videogame
Everyone: "we're bored"
Bethesda: "no you're not"
Everyone: "Starfield sucks"
Bethesda: "no u"
People also talk about the load screen problems with that game. They need to go back and fix those issues. Get rid of like 99% of the procedural generated planets, focus on like 10. Pull a Jedi survivor/fallen order and design the planet areas you visit well.
Yes, we are!
Why you waving your hands like you’re some kind of Jedi?
@@robosing225 Starfield doesn't suck though
@@blaket1841 Jedi Survivor was such a boring ass game though. It wasn't even open world
Also, the Moon isn't empty it's filled with a bunch of things that, shockingly, spoiler alert, are not found on Earth
Like Thor said when the astronauts went to the moon they had stuff to do. That's why they weren't bored.
There was science to do. Moon rock to poke. Starfield has no *science*. There's like, 2 xenobotanists and they've got a feud, and everyone thinks the guy who is talking about a near-extinct alien tree is crazy.
AND the writing can't even decide if there's mail/e-mail or not. They barely have radios. The only explorers are hobbyists and everyone thinks they're crazy, even when they have alien artifacts. Even when you come back with space magic.
It's a really badly written game with no narrative vision.
And empty, boring-ass planets that the NPCs don't even want to explore.
sole reason every was no fascinated
we have seen plajets but weve never been there
moon rocks, flags, footage, so many things made being on the moon a marvel because itd never been done before
why aam i gonna fly to an empty planet in a world where we have evolved to multiplanet travel
Let’s not discount the fact that.. yenno, they were on the *fucking* moon. In space. With low gravity. Making history.
An experience like that cannot even be fathomed, even if they didn’t have anything to do, the essence of that moment isn’t going to be captured by Bugthesda’s bland copy/paste worlds.
It wasn't the stuff to do, it was real life. Real life does not translate into video game experiences.
@brahtrumpwonbigly7309 yeah even if there wasn't science to do, just stepping foot on the moon would make it not boring.
To be honest, the moon statement ia weird as shit, but when I think about it, "some planets are empty by design" kinda makes sense. Like it would make discovery of something cool feel much more important. Think about how horror games (and films too) are made. You are given not only the creepy horrific scenes that make your blood boil, but also calm and safe places to get you out of the cautious state, this way the next scare is more effective.
Not defending starfield though, peeps say it's trash and I believe them
That's also one of the key points he made: The Real-Life Astronauts were DOING STUFF there, We in the video game are not doing enough to justify the amount of time/hours they may want you to spend in that space.
"Aka we are going to let Moddershall take care of that"
"doing shit loads of science"
*Astronauts hitting golf balls and driving around in a go kart*
In a game that markets itself as an open world exploration game, having planets with nothing on them feels like unfinished content.
There isn't anything there to explore, it's just a barren rock.
"Oh but that's you exploring a new planet player, isn't that exciting!?"
No, there is no actual content there, its just nothing, there is nothing to do on said planet except leave to one that has things on it. Waste of our time to pad the play time by waiting on loading screens.
I feel like he’s gonna hit 1 mil in the middle of the night for me and I’m gonna miss it. That’s okay though, I was there for the world record, so I’m content.
The world record? You mean the hype train, the biggest hype train on twitch, and a hype train after that? That was crazy! In one stream
@@anthonydavis5288yeah I was there for all of them. I was one of the ferrets when they bugged out and died 😂
And boom
@@alienmagi me when people are in the house for 5 minutes
he hit 1m btw
Bethesda really do need to be put in their place when making games.
Yay, an avocado
->
Yay, an empty world
Gonna say the astronauts had more to do than a starfield player
Its not pr training thats missing. Its fundamental rejection of criticism and responsibility that plagues modern society.
Also, yes going to the moon WAS boring. They literally ended the Apollo missions because people stopped watching the launch and mission broadcasts, which generated a lot of funding for them. People got bored of the moon once they knew there was nothing interesting to find there.
Reminder that this is the same company that released fallout: new vegas.
What's funny is that they give this line of reasoning and have no land rover or other vehicles in the game when in reality they do exist.
But we're not going to the moon, Bethesda. We're playing a video game. Made by an entertainment company.
Allegedly.
Their response is the type of straw man response you'd see someone on reddit say. A video game and real life are not comparable at all
Go to all the other planets in our solar system, what will you find???
@@maitiu6802IT'S A FUCKING VIDEO GAME! NOT SPACE FUCKER SIMULATOR 2023!
@@maitiu6802 A storm bigger than the planet Earth that has wind speeds that would melt glass that has been going on for literal centuries at least. - Jupiter
A cloud of comets so thick and large that it creates a literal disc that can be observed hundreds of trillions of miles away, twice. - Saturn & Uranus
A frozen moon that may or may not have life living underneath its icy surface due to an atmosphere that resembles Earth's own atmosphere save the chemical composition that its been nicknamed "Earth's twin". - Titan
A planet covered in thick toxic gases that some scientists speculate could be the Earth's own future and is still considered habitable in the upper atmosphere and Nasa already has ideas for how to build flying cities on the planet in such way that it doesn't even have a cost of fuel to maintain, only an upfront construction cost to keep it floating. - Venus
And that's just a few of the facts about our own solar system.
Edit: Cited the planets and moons I'm talking about.
@@maitiu6802 things to actually interact with.
Everytime when I play CoD WWII, I always try to remember how much fun the soldiers back then had, so I have fun too.
Honestly? That game is fucking awesome. Still one of the most fun (and most underrated) CoD's ever.
Haha, you made me laugh out loud. In a public bus. Thanks!
I almost exclusively play CoD WW2. Working on getting the PS2 version so I can play that again. Already completed the one on the PS3. Those are the best Cod games imo. God bless the folks who worked at Treyarch back then.
@@freeloaderuser6793 I... don't think you're talking about the same game here. CoD WW2 was the 2017 one by sledgehammer.
@_Jay_Maker_ the newest WW2 one
“You’re having fun, because I said so”
@MrDJBros07 fucking liar 😂😂 I've seen that shit 37 times now and my depressed ass still breathing 😂😂😂😂
This is so wild. I thought this was some pleb defending the game, not one of the actual (also pleeb, in this case) developers trying to defend something they should know sucks and is boring for players.
@MrDJBros07rtar
Now give me your money
Sounds like a dad who forced their kid to play a sport and then told them and you better have fun while doing it.
"Where's your PR training?" is the most professional roast I've ever heard.
You’re more likely to find the cure for cancer than find even *half* decent PR in Bethesda.
funny thing is that was the PR training... the trainer was a yes man.
its funny because im shouting that at people all the time....and i have to tell that to people that could fire me at will. (thanks to the gaming gods they know im right and they f'd up and are good human beings who can take the L)
@@Techmaster7032Official the cure has been known for decades, you only get it if you are part of the club
Lots of companies lack PR responses nowadays. It's sad to see what basically amounts to immature childish responses from these companies as if that fixes the problem.
That's the same energy as parents telling their kids to "pretend your homework is a video game."'
Wait it's not? D;
Whenever I lost my life doing homework I thought I could just click a reset button and get all my life back. Tell me it ain't so!
@@Theepieguy Homework autosaves, sorry
Actually it’s pretty smart, pretending the homework is a video game will make you more interested, and learn faster, so it’s not a bad advice at all
@@mannanici8206 instructions unclear, i threw a fireball at my homework dragon, what do i tell my teacher?
@@mannanici8206That's the stupidest advice I've ever got told by my parents. My homework it's NOT a videogame, it's not anywhere near close at what makes videogames interesting for me, and the act of standing in front of a flat surface for hours it's not the reason anyone likes videogames.
"Pretend your homework it's like a videogame" is the most "I don't play videogames" thing you could come up with to your son, and oh God I had to let it out.
Switched from "you'll own nothing and be happy" to "you'll do nothing and have fun."
Same energy
@@lukemehalick370 lmao
The beatings will continue until morale improves
You can have fun while doing nothing, by taking certain substances...
“Astronauts on the moon weren’t bored” is the most insane argument for empty worlds that I’ve ever heard.
I’m gonna start using it for everything. “Why haven’t you taken out the trash?” “UM, NEIL ARMSTRONG???”
Legit, it's the most baffling response I've ever heard, and that's saying a lot from the gaming industry
@I_Am_Wasabi_Man it's crazy how out of touch Bethesda is, can't wait for another re-release of Skyrim
@@jamesrosewell9081 they're a shining example of a terrible developer. Skyrim Special Edition: Anniversary: VR Anniversary: 10th year Anniversary for the switch looks great though
@@jamesrosewell9081seriously they refuse to change their development methods and just keep making the same games in the same terrible ways then when people get mad and say hey wtf they're always just like what do you not enjoy Skyrim again but not as good? Is that not good enough?
Best response ive seen is “we are not astronauts, we are gamers”
It's like if you were playing DnD and the DM stripped out all the magical classes and abilities because "You don't have magic in real life but you still have fun."
Gamers who play astronauts.
funfact, during voyage to the moon
the crews were bored to death for 4 days straight of nothingness
@@DrEnzymeI certainly don’t have fun in real life. That’s why I go to space in video games to see all the amazing things on sci fi planets tha….oh…. :
So your logic is because you're gamers you demand millions of planets to be filled with life and cities even if it's based on our god damn universe hmm 🤔
"Where's your PR training?"
That is a *BURN*
"Am I out of touch? No, it is the children that are wrong"
Hint: If you ever find yourself saying this, you're out of touch
I find I'm often *glad* to be out of touch.@@recklessabandon5678
"Damn gamers, they ruined gaming!"
"Mmmm steamed hams!"
We need to differentiate between "Open World" games and "Empty World" games.
Open world doesn't mean every planet is supposed to have mega cities and ecosystems! It's a space game based on our universe last time I checked there's no life forms like what you want and mega cities in our fucking universe! So Mars is empty? Then how does each planet exist if they are empty hmm?
For real. 99% of open world games are just huge, empty, lifeless, and boring. If your game's only selling point is how big the world is, your game is trash.
@@Kryxx07 your reality must be trash to then aye
@@6Vlad6Tepes6 ?
@@6Vlad6Tepes6youre in every comment eating Bethesdas ass they wont hire you for defending a shite game
"the beatings will stop once morale improves" same energy.
"The intent is to provide players a sense of pride and accomplishment" vibes
"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas" energy
You’re for sure either military or ex military I’ve heard that phrase so many times lmao
@@dusk2383 It's in the popular culture now too, since you kno, war is current again.
Imagine the sheer unbridled hubris of thinking you are on par with space race era NASA (astronauts) because you managed to create an empty map that feels boring to explore…
Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin enter the Apollo after a loading screen. Take off. another loading screen. Landed. another loading screen. Then held the W key for about 45 minutes. Then disembarked with another loading screen. Then landed after another loading screen. Yeah I see how that's a one-to-one comparison! ❤ lol
Why are you being so negative?
Someone pointed out "The astronauts weren't bored because NASA gave them a shitload of things to do. In a video game, we call those _quests_ " and that has lived in my head ever since I read it.
Also they were literally walking on the fucking moon. It wasn't a video game.
Yeah I think on the first mission they barely got any sleep cuz of the work load and the noise of the tiny lander, they were genuinely worried about take off because of how sleep deprived they were.
Astronauts: playing golf and driving dune buggies.
Bethesda: I don’t do vehicles.
@@Pedun42"oh it's basically the same thing"
-internet contrarians probably.
@@trouty7947 also any kind of failure to take off, miscalculations cuz iirc they had to made a course correction and weren't sure they packed enough fuel?
Bethesda at Christmas:
_"Some of your presents are actually for me, but that's not selfish"_ 👍🏻
Elite dangerous fixes the empty planets problem by having structures placed randomly in the galaxy for you to descover, and there's tons of materials and interesting landforms to explore with each planet type
@@vanillaicecream2385 I really enjoyed ED, quite possibly my favorite sound design in any game ever (VR/Headphones utterly transform the experience!) - but I'd be lying if I said that it held my attention or felt like there wasn't something missing from that experience, too (though it was much harder to determine what was missing in Elite than it is with a Spacerim)
@@vanillaicecream2385ia that a mod? Bcuz if it is bgs still sucks ass
@@Blazedreptile Elite: Dangerous is a game.
@@Blazedreptile Elite Dangerous is a space sim game - highly recommend checking it out, if Starfield left you wanting 👍🏻
“My cup has a hole in the bottom by design, therefore it’s not useless”
I feel it in my soul, this guy has a godly Plankton impression locked inside of him.
DUDE I knew something was familiar about his voice!!
Holy shit you're so right
That has big “you all have phones, don’t you?” energy
But Blizzard was right though, diablo immortal was popular and probably makes like 100 times the money any other diablos make
@@fdsajklre that's a great argument senator, you have a source for that?
@@fdsajklre Diablo immortals hasn't passed diablo 3 or diablo 4 in revenue...
That is absolutely the first thing I thought of too.
@@swisschese1323 "A source? I made it the FUCK UP"
Where's your PR training?
"They just told us to release another port of Skyrim."
A Skyrim port/reskin would have been so much better though... lol
From the creators of "sense of accomplishment".
@@SaxyPlayer96not when they started charging for mods
They just *Todd* us
They'll release another rendered logo elder scrolls 6 trailer
My grandfather had to walk uphill both ways to his moons, and he wasn’t bored. Also there was snow.
That’s like having no NPCs speak to you and then when you complain they say “sometimes people don’t want to talk to you”
I mean... It's kinda unrealistic that everyone is gonna start talking to you.
How many times have you walked up to a random stranger and struck up a conversion.
And no, people working in shops or restaurants do not count. Nor do people trying to sell you something.
@@lyntonfleming mate… it’s not that deep, it’s just an example.
@@lyntonflemingI just hope you never get to be a game developer or an important businessman
@@lyntonfleming IRL people will respond. "Don't talk to me is a response."
You’d think they might have learned after that’s literally what they did with Fallout 76 at launch.
“It’s not boring and empty due to laziness, it’s a feature.”- Bethesda
"It just works"
@@KenjiAsakura09
Bethesda: “If we put NPCs on all the planets, it crashes for some reason.”
laziness and having flawed intentions aren't the same though
so true
bethesda should have put a sprawling on every single planet
Why do you think it's laziness?
a genuine "dont you have phones " moment
I would put "sense and accomplishment reddit comment" into that tier too
Tbh its worse cause they are selling a doody game and telling people they aren’t playing it right and so on etc
Literally starfield would have been way been way better if the game was only a small star system with 50 planets 25 of which where full fleshed out with stories and factions and maybe 20 minor planets with some interesting points but more for world building and smaller quest lines then like 5 just pure near empty resources mining/building planets. Literally an example of less is more.
@@breadtoaster1011 at least in those situations, the developers weren't literally saying that you are playing the game wrong. at least those devs were being honest about their motives (or it was so obvious that it couldn't be hidden like with EA).
@@breadtoaster1011don't forget The Toddster saying people need to get better pcs if they have issues playing the game.
I remember seeing something about starfield years and years and years ago. I legit cried when I found out it wasn’t coming out for a really long time ( I was like 10 alright). All that time, all that hope, and now it’s here and I wish I could go back and stop myself from ever finding out about it.
When you own up to a mistake or shortfall, it often leaves the public eye quicker and it gives the trolls less ammo. When you double down on the mistake, you immortalize your incompetence into the form of a meme that constantly reminds everyone of your mistake.
A sense of pride and accomplishment...
"16 times the detail"
No clue what you mean
200 years of collective game design experience
Do you not have phones?!
It blows my mind how quickly people forget this lesson.
"I just feel like there's not a lot of content here" - Lance and Louie Armstrong
Those were the astronauts right?
Don't forget the most important member of the team, Stretch Armstrong
"Did we forget to buy the DLC? Get NASA on the phone immediately"
@@kaydgamingI really hope that question is meant to be a joke
"uuhh... Houston? we got a problem. There's nothing to do on the Moon.. this was a giant leap of boredom, but a small burst from our rocket should take us home"
"Where's your PR training?"
You just said something I've been rhetorically asking of MANY companies for some years now. Thank YOU, sir!
I used to work in a PR company. Your full time job is convincing boomer clients that your useless services are worth it, and then acting like the half arsed ideas of your managers are good.
PR is a cesspool for people who either waiting to move into move into journalism, MBAs who couldn't get anywhere else, economics grads who really should have done journalism and designers like me who just needed a job.
The only people qualified to do PR are people with a design or marketing background, but there's this wierd "prestige" system which means eco and journalism guys take point. So those who understood how social media actually works and how consumers react were given lowest priority.
Why? Because PR was once about working with newspapers and analyzing market trends. That was like 40 years ago. Now it's just glorified social media management. This is why modern PR teams are so bad and whh so many companies release seemingly absurd and tone deaf statements on social media.
@@luxinvictus9018 imagine your entire work is supposed to be based on one thing but that one thing is never good idk not good with analogy
You would rather speak to a human that turned into a robot rather then a real human?
@@benygames7399 Funny thing is, now you speak to a human who insults you like a robot. Before, at least the robot tried to respect your opinion lol.
@@luxinvictus9018 even Taliban has better PR than this lmao, don't they have PR major/school? I remember seeing some here.
Sniffing your own farts so hard you compare your boring space game to exploring the actual moon as an astronaut.
"I sat through a dozen loading screens for this? An empty planet?"
"Yeah, and you're having fun! It's required!"
Apparently you people don't know what empty means! You know it's quite sad so many ungrateful entitled shits these days when it takes real astronauts to go explore other planets but now we have the technology to explore them anytime we want sure it may not be an exact replica of the planets but accurate enough yet you people demand millions of planets that's based on our universe to be teeming with life and mega cities!
What else were you expecting though?
"You cant be bored if Im having a good time ruining your good time"
Methesda*
Methbesda? I know they suck and their games are boring now but like… nothing about methbesda makes sense?? Being on meth applies that the game would, at the very least, be fast paced
@@basilciccone1679i think he's talking about the developers being high as giraffe puzzy when making up excuses
@@basilciccone1679The thing with meth is that people who abuse it often think their ideas are a lot better than they actually are. Cokeheads are even worse lmao
@@jojomang8333name a drug that doesn’t do that
"The people who went one time in their whole life and saw something completely new to mankind is exactly like a procedural survival crafting game from 2015"
Brilliant!! 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻
pfp is an accurate caricature of the bethesda dev
Quick Reminder that Buzz aldrin punched someone who said the moon landing was fake.
I suggest someone show this to buzz and request that he punch whoever wrote it.
@@BigWheel.i vote for him to punch Todd Howard, regardless of who wrote that..
Todd 👃Howard👃
“We weren’t walking into an empty box ya jackass!” The eloquence 😂
“Am I out of touch?… no, it’s the children who are wrong”
@miriamweller812 "Am I out of touch?....no it's OP who's wrong" You clearly don't know memes.
@@miriamweller812 The fact that Starfield is full of empty and boring planets isn't an opinion, it's just what it is.
@@miriamweller812what the OP was trying to say (or I believe so) was that it's a bad response to a good criticism. Yes, people were thrilled to go to the moon, and realistically, you won't find much in most of the planets nearby. BUT THIS IS A GAME! supposedly designed to keep players engaged and interested, making empty planets it's a bad move, and defending it by pretty much saying "oh but when we did it for the first time in real life there was also nothing but we loved it!" - yeah no shit, we loved it because of the technological advancements that they signified, not because the moon was empty.
Out of Touch Thursdays baybee
Children are wrong about soooo many things
Ah yes, the classic "You don't want that either, you think you do, but you don't."
I did tutorial of allocating energy into grav drive to jump between planets and stuff > spent hours building ship > accept optional quest / bounty > goto journal / map to set waypont > will not set waypoint unless I instantly fast travel / jump to destination > jump to destination (now waypoint useless cause I in destination) > what was point of grav drive tutorial? > thought I'd deal with some bad guys on way to destination and find something interesting > where am I now? what system / planet was I on before? > am now lost due to instant teleportation.
Ok sure then don't use "fast travel", the game literally forces you to use fast travel, you cannot accept a bounty, set a waypoint and manually jump to each system.
Blizzard and jagex both tried saying this and both were so wrong I'm surprised other companies haven't taken notice. Osrs and wow classic both almost never existed because the top devs thought people didn't actually want it. I'm not too sure about wow classic but I know osrs is much larger than rs3.
@@travwolfe101Classic WoW skyrocketed their numbers, and Classic Hardcore as well. "The Customer is always right" originally meant they're always right in WHAT THEY WANT. And it's fucking true. Blizzard is just run and populated by dipshits who don't game, who don't care, and are out of touch with basic human desires.
hmm this guy sounds like he bash's on vulnerable people often..
you guys dont understand an employee expressing something for their company ... ?
"George Washington would have been blown away by using math in an Excel spreadsheet! It's not boring!"
That’s funny but honestly he’d be bored af
@@lord_haven1114 He'd probably occupy his mind with how to apply it to benefit the nation in major ways more than just mess around with numbers and graphs.
Honestly this is a bit of a false comparison, Excel doesn't lie about being exciting, and I certainly don't find it boring. Tedious, perhaps, but not boring. But starfield is a video game with the intent of being interesting, which an empty map is not
@@viserproductions1 Yo no hate to you homie, but boring and tedious are synonyms. Like, Google tedious, boring is in the list of synonyms. Click on boring and it'll say "not interesting; tedious."
That SAID I totally get what you mean and agree! Excel is a complete system with a lot of inner workings to it that are used to efficiently complete tasks, and as a result, while it's not fun, it's still engaging. Cheers!
@@samc9133 Synonyms don't just mean the exact same thing. Context is a huge part of them.
same energy as “you guys have phones no?”
Bethesda really forgot the many sample collections, EVA tests, and the countless hours of manpower back on Earth spent not only trying to make the moon landing happen but analyzing the data being sent back.
They didn’t just land, step out into a featureless landscape and go, _”Yep!”_ and then fuckin’ leave - like players do now, because there’s literally no content, gameplay, resources, or even scientific / exploratory points of interest there.
LOL even bioware did this better. There were empty planets in ME1 you could land on that had a few points of interest but were ultimately boring. They learned their lesson in the sequels and those planets were only accessible by probes which gathered resources from them.
@@VogtTD At least driving around in the MAKO was fun as hell
A great way to see the difference? Look at the game Kerbal Space Program. The whole damn GAME is "going to empty planets" but people love it because you DO in fact have to do EVA tests, sample collections, and building rockets to face the challenges you will meet to get that stuff. And it's fun as hell.
@@jonasfree2I agree. One of the best parts of ksp are the landing and ascent attempts. Because all the planets and moons are different and you having manual control, no two landings and takeoffs are the same. I feel if Starfield gave us manual control and have to take in account the gravity and atmospheric drag from each celestial body we visited. The exploration would be a lot more fun.
Instead we got the same 2 or 3 cutscenes after we pushed a button to land on a celestial body. Boring.
They're trying to Jedi Mind Trick. "This IS the fun you're looking for..."
when they could have said “those planets are for the modders to run wild on”
"Don't you guys have phones?" moment.
LMAO
This comment is underrated.
Steve Jobs' "You're holding it wrong" about the iPhone 4 antenna design screw up.
nah this is actually worse
blizzard said "you don't want that thing you don't have, you just remember it better"
bethesda said "what you are currently experiencing is incorrect"
i mean blizzard does that too, but these 2 statements being compared = bethesda loses big time
Thor actually has a short where he defends the guy that says that and explains that he actually had a really ambitious design for the game and was just doing the best with what he had. The phones thing was just him being nervous and socially awkward.
"Your not bored! your playing my game! you cant be bored!"
😂😂😂
*you're
@@chrismclean4789 relax grammar nazi
@@chrismclean4789who cares about grammer, you understanded what they saying (intentinally bad)
@@chrismclean4789you’ve definitely never been intimate with a woman
@@Protogen6768 *Grammar
"In the real world, I have to write up lists of stuff I have to go to the grocery store to buy. And I have never thought to myself that realism is fun. I go play games to have fun."
- Gabe Newell, VALVE, 2023
That's about as dumb, just in the opposite direction.
@@ShastaOrangedamn the only thing jutting out more than that insult are your ribs.
Most games need shopping lists now a days just so you dont back track
@@GingeryGinger Are you really defending morbid obesity and is this really how you are going about it?
Thanks, that image now lives in my head rent free.
I'm pretty sure astronauts didn't step off their ship and walk into a loading screen.
“ The emptiness is to represent your bank accounts, we took your money”
“Going to the moon for the first time irl is just as exciting as going to empty moons in my game”-Bethesda
exactly this
Bethesda out here acting like they're doing real space exploration in their loading screen simulator
The one thing has not much to do with the other. A few games manage to get rid of the most obvious loading screens at the cost of being always on multiplayer games, and suddenly loading screen are like cancer? I grew up having really long loading screens for everything in games.
@@T0gharthe point is you spend more time looking at loading screens than you do interacting with your ship
@@T0gharbecause it's already 2023, 2011 maybe it's okay, but 2023? Bruh.
@@T0gharloadingscreens have absolutely nothing to do with games being multiplayer or not. It's just bad coding (hiding them within gameplay) and an old engine.
The issue isn't that there are loading screens, the issue is that they somehow had *more* loading screens than their previous games...
It’s giving Principal Skinner “Am I out of touch? No! It’s the children who are wrong.”
Gives me "Do you people not have phones?" vibes
The people on these planets do not, in fact, have phones.
Nor anything else for that matter.
Thats why theyre bored on these empty planets.
Exactly. "Like my product because I told you to" is such a brainrot response.
I feel like Thor would be an excellent red shirt guy
@@brahtrumpwonbigly7309 "Like my product because we spent millions on marketing so you idiots would buy another incomplete game"
I would laugh so hard if Thor crashed Blizzcon in a red shirt and did something like that.
“Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin weren’t bored when *they* went to the moon, so what, you think you’re better than fuckin astronauts or sum’ dude?”
-Bethesda
They weren't bored, they were DOING A JOB. They were on full effort basically the entire time because not doing it would have led to their deaths!
IF only Bethesda would have the same situation.
They laid off their PR team to give Todd a raise.
The fact that last time someone was on the moon was 1972 makes this even funnier
India went to the dark side of the moon recently did you just blank on that
@@BigGreenThreads Was it a manned mission?
@@BigGreenThreadsall 12 people who have landed on the moon have been americans. There have been unmanned missions, which doesnt seem to be the context the op is refering to.
How does that make it funnier?
@@MegaChickenonastickThe moon is so boring that no one else needs to or even wants to go in person, just like the empty planets in the game
"People spent years to sail across an entire ocean. They weren't bored."
When they weren't scared shitless or working, they were probably bored. Which is why Alcohol was a must on ships.
@@HauntingSpectre tbh even then they had a lot of stuff to do on the boat itself, maintenance, controlling sails etc. It is the difference of flying on a flight simulator in empty skies or flying in a game where the plane is heading where your mouse is and the sky is still empty. In one flying feels more rewarding and you get a sense of comparison. In the other, well... it is just boring
@@HauntingSpectre Alcohol was a must because it was the only way to drink something that wasn't stale water lol
- Ubisoft after releasing a quadruple-A game
Insane. You can't argue someone into having fun.
Yes, like now you are having fun because I said so
but you can?
@@offensichtlichfabianno you fucking can't. If someone isn't having fun, then they're simply not having fun. No amount of debating them will get them to start having fun. You're just being a tool
It's totally possible to argue someone into having fun. This is not one of those times.
@@AlX-Andershow us
Bethesda didnt try something and fail , they achieved EXACTLY what they set out to do..
1. Create super ultra mega hypetrain
2. Capitalise on expectations
3. Release half arsed game after purposefully cutting as many corners as humanly possible to maximise profit vs creation cost.
4. Get Todd to say sorry with puppy face
5. Announce goodwill fixes and monetized DLC
6. Capitalise on expecations
7. Get Todd to say Sorry again if necessary
8. Repeat till announcing Fallout 5
9. Create super ultra mega hypetrain
10. Capitalise
11. Get Todd to........
Starfield is dogshit and they knew that long before they stuck $$$$$ stickers on it but they also know that theres a player base out there who refuse to accept they are being milked because they hang onto the nostaligia of games created 3 decades ago.
As alluded, the moon was far from empty. It was actually a pretty intense time crunch to get all of the samples and data they wanted
And by time crunch I mean they literally had a limited supply of atmosphere
they also has like actual ship bording mechanics, not just a load screen
@@mryellow6918"Kerbal Space Program has empty planets and nobody complains"
@@Michael_Raymond KSP actually has a flight model and actual ships with planet to space take off.
@@mryellow6918the lure of ksp for me was always the challenge of "can i do it" once id made a few ships that could get anywhere and had a station on duna that put me game to 10fps when it rendered in I lost almost all interest. I never cared if there was nothing to find but a fast travel loading screen would never be able to pull me in like that lol.
Yeah this is me. I spent a lot more time, and had a lot more fun, in the VAB building, and planning and such. Once you launch the rocket, you plan a burn, you burn, you hold fast forward for a few in-game years, you plan another burn, you burn, you land, you click "do experiment" a few times...and the mission is complete.@@fingmoron
"Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip." -Elmore Leonard. I think this would apply to making games, too.
That is a good quote.
"A mild wide, and an inch deep." - Starfield.
Best description I've ever had of the game. I put 100 hours into, and only because there were no other games. I'm dying, can't afford new games so whatever is on game pass for X1 is all I got. Starfield was it.
I shyte you not. I used the same pistol nearly the entire time I played since nothing better could drop. No better quest rewards.
Quests or exploration even didn't give you anything worthwhile, period. There was no carrot. Just a stick to nothing.
Astronauts played golf in low gravity. How about that Bethesda?! No golf mini game or dune buggy. So the astronauts did in fact do more.
@@dianapennepacker6854 you literally just described fallout newvegas.
starting gun best gun. maybe actually try and enjoy the game
if your min maxing bethesda games really arent for you, minmax your stats, not your gear. you know?
@@beatles42ohgg94did you really just try and use a FLAW from a game made in the mid 2000s to justify why a game in the 2020 *still has* that same unnecessary Flaw that completely invalidates the gameplay loop of collecting loot from enemies??
Just admit that you wasted 60 bucks and 100 hours and you're just gaslighting yourself and everyone else into thinking this was a worthwhile purchase.
Bethesda Scammed you. You deserved better
@beatles42ohgg94 fallout new vegas is shallow? I dunno 'bout that one chief.
Also I'm about 99% sure that wide as an ocean deep as a puddle line was used in a review of fallout 3 like, 4-5 years ago. But it's a good quote and describes a lot of games pretty well tbh.
@@beatles42ohgg94You going to try telling us that's a chocolate cake you're eating next? If you keep defending it, they'll continue to let you eat "cake". By your logic, why even put gear in the game then?
Astronauts had so much tension because death could happen at any moment and they were finally doing what they trained for years. The biggest moment in their whole life.
Literally one of the biggest moments in human history, the crowning achievement of our effort as a species.
And those are just some textured polygons.
Fucking lmao
Let's not forget this is the same company when asked, "Is this a bug or a feature?" replied "Yes"
Gunz: The Duel is an appropriate time where the answer is is. If it doesn't actively enhance the game, it isn't a feature.
Tbf yes is a valid answer, alot of features were at one point bugs
@@SinyaoGunz The Duel had its entire game design tossed in the bin because you could be nigh immune to everything to the entire point of the game just by mashing left and right click with a sword.
@@fearedjames skill issue
That could be a good thing, see Tribes. The game defining mechanic was a bug players exploited and the devs embraced as part of the franchise.
In this case, not so much.
Astronauts weren’t bored because they were ON THE FUCKING MOON
You know, Mass Effect had planets that were empty by design. When you went to them you basically got a small paragraph of text telling you whatever you got from it in resources, then you could move on with the gameplay.
And people gave bioware crap for that. Ask anyone that has played mass effect and theyll say thats the worst part of the game.
@@muffinboi4134 yes, but imagine if they also made you land on the planet and derp around for 5 minutes each time! That's Bethesda providing you content!
@@SavageGreywolf thats litteraly what you do in the first mass effect if you dont know where all the collectibles are from jump.
yeah, but two differences, one, the maps were smaller, and two, mass effect at least gave you the mako@@muffinboi4134
It somehow felt more entertaining when I did it in mass effect 15 years ago
These are the "the bag was too expensive to make, we aren't planning on doing anything about it" people. There is no PR training
comparing a major real life event to exploring in a video game is crazy
Crazy how you can do so many cool experiments on the planets in startfield like: scan plant, scan animal, scan rock, acquire plant, acquire animal, acquire rock, build, kill things. Such a refreshing game design to compare to the fucking moon landings that HAD A ROVER THAT YOU COULD DRIVE FOR FUN!
even mass effect had the MAKO to play with
“Let’s make No Man’s Sky but worse on our buggy 25 year old engine held together by duct-tape and prayers”
@@pembertr0nI would've straight up preferred a Science-Fantasy blend with magic portals in the spaceships. At least it would make use of their experience remaking Skyrim.
@@pembertr0n THEYRE STILL USING THE FUCKING CREATION ENGINE?!
@pembertr0n I stopped playing a month after it released. No man sky, being a 15gb Game, compared to midfields 100+?? Nms ain't a loading screen sim, you literally land and take off from plants. Leave midfield behind, join us
"It's empty to overwhelm you, being overwhelmed is fun!" 😂
Wait, how is that overwhelming? Wouldn't empty be underwhelming to the point of boredom?
@@emberguard5009that’s an actual take from Bethesda.
They really compared booting up a game for an hour to humanity accomplishing an incredible feat that most deemed impossible not that long prior, just to not have to admit that the game is bad.
"Where’s your PR training?" is a hilarious insult
This wasn’t written for players it was written for share holders.
“No guys for real our ideas weren’t bad and the company isn’t stagnant. The filthy peasants just don’t understand it”
But it's a reply to a review of the game
@@nukeninmgt1504 Its also word for word what chatGPT spit out when asked for starfield spin.
@@nukeninmgt1504Anything a company says can and will be funnelled to the big shareholders (Even steam reviews), especially any admission of fault.
You've heard of shareholders, wait until you learn about stakeholders and what presidents, monarchs, and dictators alike to to please them.
@@nukeninmgt1504 yes one that was one of the first things that pops on on Google. Like what a share holder would look for after a new product gets released
Bethesda has a specific kind of mental formula for the player to follow, the player must meditate and imagine an amazing game while Bethesda provides the quiet, empty space that is required
That's... how I play Bethesda games. Lots of imagination, giving characters and places life and depth in my imagination because the game doesn't.
This is a perfect response dude lol
@@ogoncio5916this is how i played fallout 4 and 76, bethesda is excellent at environmental storytelling when they actually try, so i just ingore the npcs and think about piecing together the environmental storytelling of an area.
"We put in a ton of extra planets with resources to harvest and room to build"
"We decided to make most planets empty because we wanted it to feel like a discovery when you *do* find something, instead of every planet just being a set of dungeons to complete"
"We wanted space to feel big, but it's just not feasible to handcraft millions of dungeons and stories in a single game, so we made what we could"
*Any* explanation would be better than what they released.
Noone forced them to promise over 1000 planets and especially noone did force them to stick to that dumb decision.
They could've done like 10 well crafted planets, some with civilization on it, some with really cool looking biomes and interesting animals and stuff and then like 10-20 empty procedually gdnerated rocks with a few cool handcrafted caves and a lot of materials to gather.
The game would've been a lot better with just a fraction of the "planets" and actual space you could fly around in.
I feel like #2 is what they're trying to say, and/but that's sort of the way I feel big vast space games should be
As in, capturing how big and empty space is with planets that are a whole lot of nothing extraordinary (being totally devoid of anything is too far though), and making what content _is_ hidden out there _really really_ exciting when you _do_ find it.
@@ferociousfeind8538and also another major issue is only being able to run everywhere you can only sprint across these baron planets, does the future of civilization just not understand the concept of a rover or something to help you move faster on a planets surface?
@@jaiden1046 Yeah, if traversal was fun in and of itself, that would help. Lots of ways to make that more interesting.
@@Thareldis Tbh I disagree with the 10 planets thing, having a galaxy does make the world feel more vast than like, Outer Worlds. That said it could have been like 50.
"Where's your PR training?"
This is Bethesda, you're seeing the results of their PR training.
I can't believe they tried to um actually their playerbase.
In a game like spore i would understand that most planets are empty because they have the worst conditions, but in spore, empty planets can still have artifacts and can still be colonised
And spore was released in 2008
Come on starfield
Thats the worst part. Some games can pull this off, like Spore. Or Stellaris, a game that can loosely be described as "Sid Meyer's Civilization But with Space Travel". The difference being, those empty planets still serve an important purpose. You can gather resources and information to greatly boost your intel and research, and you're gonna be constantly hopping from planet to planet because Stellaris is a settlement simulator at its core in gameplay.
Starfield is supposed to be a spacefaring FPS RPG, having huge but empty entire planets where the only purpose is to get a few extra resource drops doesn't contribute at all to the gameplay style.
The planets weren't empty by design. They were empty because of laziness and incompetence.
Bethesda knew they didn't have enough prefabs to fill the play areas with content that wouldn't immediately be noticeable as repetitive. (Btw its still super repetitive just takes a few hours to see repeats instead of minutes)
So what does the big storied studio do? Spend what would have been a small relative amount of money to get the level designers, artists, etc to make some more stuff to throw into the proc gen? No! Edit the proc gen instead! instead of creating 8-12 POIs on a planet. Change it to 1-3. We're problem solving!
Also saying "space is empty!" is the most bullshit ass lie I've ever heard. If space being empty was actually intentional design why are there POIs on EVERY planet? Elite Dangerous does space is empty as intentional design. You can land on a moon and there will be literally nothing but rocks and dust on that bitch. A solar system with a dead star will literally be void of any activity.
Comparing flying a rocket and walking on a moon thousands of miles away from your entire home planet to clicking a button and walking around a dead, empty plane is crazy ☠️☠️
Professional response: We at Bethesda wanted to try and cover a very wide span of combinations of atmospheres and landscapes, which may include some planets completely devoid of either. We thought it would add a touch of realism and perspective to the game. In response to feedback it would appear that intention was not in favor of our player base, and we will take this into consideration with future content.
Bethesda's actual response: my son said you were butthurt bc you didn't like his artistic talent? Have you considered some planets just ARE empty?!? So ungrateful. 😢
How long did it take you to come up with that? That's pretty much the ideal PR response
@@tinycervid7679the sad part is that you could probably just get a similar result from asking an AI to do it for you but that Bethesda dude didn't even bother with doing that..
@@tinycervid7679 that should literally not take more than 1 minute. Its the 101 basic "we fucked up" PR talk.
@@tinycervid7679if you walk on eggshells around people enough you figure out PR/marketing jargon
That's pretty spot on. That shit can be done really well. First time I remember seeing something like it was TLOU scrounging around opening up empty drawers and not finding a damn thing in entire rooms. I was like, of course it's empty, it's been decades and this shit's been picked over.
The idea of empty planets is great, but players don't really have that much of an attention span. Or they don't have the ability to believe the thing is empty and will just keep searching forever which will frustrate anyone.
Its like your parents trying to convince you that cleaning up is a fun little game.
They didn’t even commit to having truly empty planets, you land on a barren wasteland and 25 seconds later someone lands right next to you and you always stumble across remains of some kind of civilization without fail
Same exact shit is what bothered me so much about No Man’s Sky. 69 gigachadillion fucking planets and every single one of them had the remains of some long dead civilization or colonists. In both Starfield and No Man’s Sky you’re never the first to set foot somewhere and that ruins the “wonder” of truly being isolated by yourself in the middle of nowhere.
@@AleutianSailorso go play elite dangerous. get lost in the black. see you next year o7.
@@AleutianSailortry Elite Dangerous and it’s the total opposite. 99.9% of planets are just big balls of barren rock
@@AleutianSailor
*Enter a new System and scan the first planet you see,
"You just discovered [ENTER PLANET NAME HERE]"
*Get credits for being the first to discover it. Enter atmosphere and land at a SHIPYARD AND DEPOT...
So much being the first one there...
@@cansagarri6749 you can almost avoid it. besides, empty planets are not totally empty. devoid of life and atmosphere, yes. not empty. there are outposts, mining and research stations, caves, etc.
They got so far out of touch that they forgot, most players play there games for interesting worlds that inspire wanderlust, not rocky field number 7
lmao
true
EXACTLY. I think they need to stop with this obsession with including “settlement/ship building” in every game they put out. Put that time/energy into making the open world more interesting and fleshed out. I don’t care about wasting time building a spaceship- just make the game fun!!!
7
Did you forget Daggerfall? Most of Daggerfall is empty space and it is the single greatest RPG to ever exist, there's something called "scale" which serves to immerse you.
Daggerfall had sprawling towns which took 5+ minutes to ride through on horseback, while it also had wilds that you could spend hours in.
Or let's go back to a modern but beloved example, many people consider NV to be the peak of Fallout. Most of NV is empty, and that's fine because it serves for scale to make things more immersive. NV is considered to be the best Fallout game, along with 3 and 2 also being considered for that title (which both have empty sections).
Furthermore, I never want to hear the same industry which proclaimed BoTW's open-world to be good that Starfield's is bad. They suffer the exact same issues, if one is bad so is the other.
Lot's of things you can attack Starfield on (such as the lack of RPG elements in an RPG), the open-world part is fine people are just looking for complaints that they wouldn't ever toss at games equally deserving of this supposedly valid criticism.
Bethesda is so far out of touch, they're basically on the dark side of the moon and completely incapable of being in contact with anyone.
"Where's your PR training?" is gonna be my new jab
"I'm bored"
"No you're not not"
"You're right I'm not"
I will put "Where's your PR training" into my box of polite yet slamming insults :D
Remember "No Man's Sky" when it was just released?
Well there you go. They went the NMS path and ended up "Huh??? This doesn't work????" when it clearly didn't with NMS.
NMS took it to heart and updated the game and now, it's an amazing game. Just take the L, and update your shit.