@citizenstitch correct. If you're in a ZvZ and you're going mutalisks, and the enemy is goign grounds, you don't necessarily want to spread creep. If you are both air or ground, it'd be a good idea to spread creep for the vision
You're right about the hydra:roach ratio 3 roaches to 1 hydra is the best composition, and it is better for the roach/hydra to engage in chokes because the hydras have longer range so more of them can attack at once. In open ground I'd say the mass roach is a bit favored as there are more units in the pure roach and they tend to just end up surrounding the other zerg's concave.
great analysis on zerg vs zerg. As far as unit comp goes, this is the best zvz commentary I've ever seen. Not that what I say matters too much, but this is the same stuff I've seen working in zvz. Infestors vs roaches: bad. Infestors/hydra vs muta: amazing. Hydra vs roaches: not the best.
Slush lives in quebec and hes the most badass quebequer ever, I think Kiwikakii also lives in quebec along with DeathrOw . There are actually alot of good quebequers in the north american ladders( including myself :D)
@helgih580 yeah, i agree with what you are saying here. I just wonder sometimes. Kind of like in starcraft 1 where it was a surprise to me to find out that once you get enough marines, they start becoming better than firebats at taking out lings.
@RazuhlAlAnfa it's not the creep that gives vision, it's the creep tumor it'self. It dosn't matter how much creep it has spread or if the opponent "owns" the territory, it has vision like any other structure
@IneedaYTaccount If he built ultras the slush could have switched to mutas. I never really get to lategame ZvZ but it seems BLs with some anti-air support would do better than ultras. It's a good transition from roach/hydra as well since you tend to stockpile a little gas with that build.
I usually have annotations disabled...but for Psy's vids I always turn them on again. and if I forgot to do that I just come right back to do it =) and now I can't await watching this footage
Here in my place I can't watch its on HD, because my internet sucks, so I try to preload it and watch it in 360p :(, but when I'm maxing the screen, it goes to 480 automatically, so it has to reload all over again. Anyone know how I can change this? Thanks alot
@xGore220 You can only see on the creep that you placed down. If for some reason your creep connects with your opponents you can see the edge of their creep, and visa versa.
@PsyStarcraft 14:12-14:28 I actually read somewhere that 5 roach + 5 hydra beats 10 roach. Next time you make one of those videos thanking those who donate, you think testing this could be part of it?
@NuclearCha0s it was regardless of what he got, so the infestors and the hydra roach ratio can be counted out as the main reason he lost. It was positioning, plain and simple. (yes i am agreeing with you... partially)
PSY 2:16 - Me and a friend do that EXACT voice when we ask each other for a cigarette.. "uh can I get smoke? uh gimmie a smoke? a just a little smoke?"
@Qyburnator Psy's love for pure upgraded pure roach on mass has made me try it, and I have even won games were I was economically behind against decently microed roach hydra infestor. If they have mutas, always counter. They will have significantly less ground forces, and you will win a base race if he doesn't retreat. (btw, I'm a 1700 diamond player, no pro by any means.)
@IfRayWasntBlind Calm down man. I love Psy's videos and have been a subscriber for a long time. I didn't say Husky was better than Psy, I was just commenting about how Psy isn't as enthusiastic as Husky. Psy is a great commentator and I appreciate all of the help his videos have given me.
Could u PsY make a vid about this ratios you were talking about? roach:hydra in z vs z, or for example lings+roaches against stalkers etc. Something like that. And get all info into one video, for example "if u make +1 armor zerglings, zealots kill u in 4 instead of 3 attacks". That would be helpful. Cheers
@xGore220 The creep is not what gives you vision. It's the creep tumor that does. So even if your creep connects to their creep, it's only limited to how far your creep tumor is. That's why you kill theirs and plant your own to limit their sight/map control.
@xXTobbe1337Xx just cause he doesnt like them doesnt mean he is stupid. I personally, dont like HD cause i think he is kinda dull and boring. But i loooovee Husky. Psy ur doing a great job, keep it up!
@vincent230192 yeah, imo don't go hydra in zvz unless you need to (to counter muta). They don't do well against roach armies and they're easily countered by banelings.
@TheHappyOctopus I disagree, the pausing for analysis is what makes me prefer Psy over Husky or HD. I say if you're watching replays, take advantage of the opportunity to stop and get a feel for strategy and the overall picture every once in a while.
@hujimix banelings are a huge waste against roaches- 7 banelings per roach in cost and 7 banelings to kill 1 roach, and you lose the banelings. Hydras can stand behind a line of roaches and dish out intense dps while the roaches tank. And carpet bombing requires a lot of apm, far more than is worth to try and use on roaches
"roach to hydra ratio at least 2:1" ... I donno m8 ... I've tested two armies on a map called "unit tester" , 1st army made of 6 roaches and 6 hydras the 2nd army just 12 roaches... I tested two battles, one with roach spd and hydra range w/o any armor or dmg upg , and the 2nd battle with roach spd , hydra range and +3 to both armor and dmg... and I gotta say , using attack command on ground OR focus firing either unit type , makes the army with 1:1 roach/hydra win every single battle
![SC2 HD #165 Psy[Z] v [P]BrokenRhythm](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CEtsY3nQr1c/mqdefault.jpg)
![SC2 HD #165 Psy[Z] v [P]BrokenRhythm](/img/tr.png)
![SC2 #185 Winhouse[Z] v [P]rsvp](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kfisIb1CQoc/mqdefault.jpg)
![SC2 HD #169 Psy[Z] v [Z]RenYuXiang](/img/1.gif)
thank you, Psy, for your superbly insightful and informative analysis.
sweet cast man. enjoy watching your stuff.
From your fellow starcraft 2 caster
Jeff
LagTV
And man, those roaches are on FIRE! Absolutely brilliant harass, gotta try it out soon.
Awesome game, nice final catharsis (and ghost squirt bottle Epilogue 23:42).
@citizenstitch correct. If you're in a ZvZ and you're going mutalisks, and the enemy is goign grounds, you don't necessarily want to spread creep. If you are both air or ground, it'd be a good idea to spread creep for the vision
today is my birthday. this video is my present from you. ty
You give so many advantages, it's nice of you
I love when you say: You fool! You should start saying it more often.
You're right about the hydra:roach ratio
3 roaches to 1 hydra is the best composition, and it is better for the roach/hydra to engage in chokes because the hydras have longer range so more of them can attack at once. In open ground I'd say the mass roach is a bit favored as there are more units in the pure roach and they tend to just end up surrounding the other zerg's concave.
Great Match! And really good commentary! Nice job!
@PsyStarcraft you did it pretty darn well :D
It is awesome that you refer to "MsButtloaves" as "he". He ain't foolin anybody with that prefix
great analysis on zerg vs zerg. As far as unit comp goes, this is the best zvz commentary I've ever seen. Not that what I say matters too much, but this is the same stuff I've seen working in zvz. Infestors vs roaches: bad. Infestors/hydra vs muta: amazing. Hydra vs roaches: not the best.
i learn more from you then everyone who ever show me
'you buffoon!" hahahaha that made me lol
@Ryners a true psy fan can come up with good psy jokes...ur a true psy fan mr
@revke ive had the same problem.
But its not happening for me when i go fullscreen with 360p picked.
Slush lives in quebec and hes the most badass quebequer ever, I think Kiwikakii also lives in quebec along with DeathrOw . There are actually alot of good quebequers in the north american ladders( including myself :D)
@RayX77 they can regenerate hella fast while burrowed, if you have the upgrade
If you look at the high yield at the end you can see blue did scout the expo with a drone.
@helgih580 yeah, i agree with what you are saying here. I just wonder sometimes. Kind of like in starcraft 1 where it was a surprise to me to find out that once you get enough marines, they start becoming better than firebats at taking out lings.
nice stewie voice. that novel your working onnnn
I liked your Stewie Impersonation :)
Is there a critical mass point with hydras? Where they start becoming super effective against roaches?
i still dont like he has less roaches than hydras
i think he needs more hydras
NICE JOB MAN. Makes perfect sense.
That much gas could be 24 roaches, true, but you'd need 20 more larvae, which is pretty tough to come by when you're 2-basing with 31 drones.
...
Are you not doing the squirt bottle anymore? T_T
@Raziel1618 One of my favorite Stewie rants.
Great game, really loved it.
love the new thumbs up messages. :D
what are your first two favourite zergs?
@RazuhlAlAnfa it's not the creep that gives vision, it's the creep tumor it'self. It dosn't matter how much creep it has spread or if the opponent "owns" the territory, it has vision like any other structure
Why were they so slow on that creep spread?
Slush and kiwikaki are from Quebec, Canada
ARe you colorblind to orange?
Tell your brother to step on the walkthru! Also, you 2 need to do a bunch of 2's and do a dual comm!!!
@IneedaYTaccount If he built ultras the slush could have switched to mutas. I never really get to lategame ZvZ but it seems BLs with some anti-air support would do better than ultras. It's a good transition from roach/hydra as well since you tend to stockpile a little gas with that build.
I usually have annotations disabled...but for Psy's vids I always turn them on again.
and if I forgot to do that I just come right back to do it =)
and now I can't await watching this footage
Here in my place I can't watch its on HD, because my internet sucks, so I try to preload it and watch it in 360p :(, but when I'm maxing the screen, it goes to 480 automatically, so it has to reload all over again. Anyone know how I can change this? Thanks alot
@flighting1 Not anymore!
@xGore220 You can only see on the creep that you placed down. If for some reason your creep connects with your opponents you can see the edge of their creep, and visa versa.
@7thdivision I would say it's a stupidly interesting MU to watch, but frustrating to play.
@PsyStarcraft 14:12-14:28 I actually read somewhere that 5 roach + 5 hydra beats 10 roach. Next time you make one of those videos thanking those who donate, you think testing this could be part of it?
@NuclearCha0s it was regardless of what he got, so the infestors and the hydra roach ratio can be counted out as the main reason he lost. It was positioning, plain and simple. (yes i am agreeing with you... partially)
How do u inject larva?
@3Carnifex
you must be from quebec..
@PsyStarcraft Oh god it's so hard to keep up with the metagame! I still find myself doing Beta builds, just because they sound familiar.
Thumbs up for the hydra / roach ratio.
PSY 2:16 - Me and a friend do that EXACT voice when we ask each other for a cigarette.. "uh can I get smoke? uh gimmie a smoke? a just a little smoke?"
@OzzyRebourn No problem. It's a common misconception.
@Qyburnator
Psy's love for pure upgraded pure roach on mass has made me try it, and I have even won games were I was economically behind against decently microed roach hydra infestor. If they have mutas, always counter. They will have significantly less ground forces, and you will win a base race if he doesn't retreat.
(btw, I'm a 1700 diamond player, no pro by any means.)
when did General Hospital start advertising on RUclips? :/
@IfRayWasntBlind
Calm down man. I love Psy's videos and have been a subscriber for a long time. I didn't say Husky was better than Psy, I was just commenting about how Psy isn't as enthusiastic as Husky. Psy is a great commentator and I appreciate all of the help his videos have given me.
@gestaltartist agree with this. i also spread creep hardcore when going hydra
24:12 "Oh and yea i love animals" That was really random?
@musselwhizzle sounds like a job for sentries
@OzzyRebourn You bring up a good point. Damn, I'm not sure.
that was awesome
@P4N1CM0DE
lol i think he was imitating stewie from family guy
Could u PsY make a vid about this ratios you were talking about? roach:hydra in z vs z, or for example lings+roaches against stalkers etc. Something like that. And get all info into one video, for example "if u make +1 armor zerglings, zealots kill u in 4 instead of 3 attacks". That would be helpful. Cheers
@deathfromabove66 lol..a new song huh? XD
@hamsterminator
nope fungal growth are way better in those situations, believe.
Inf. Terreans are mainly used for harassing their epxo's.
Long ago since you did a match in several parts
nice match i love slush too much :D
@Phobia3472 Lol thanks for the info man
I thought they were perfect and dont make mistakes
thanks again for the revelation!
@rocketdriver2 yeah but with the old roach range he wouldn't have played pure roach against hydra roach^^
@UhhNegative Ehhh its the same thing really. If you place a creep tumor down its gonna spread creep to the edge of its vision. Or near enough to it.
yoh phy can u teach me how to play zerg. i wanna get in to usin them after watchin ur games
@DrROCKNZO
For Sure. Psy has great tactics and strategies.
@xGore220 The creep is not what gives you vision. It's the creep tumor that does. So even if your creep connects to their creep, it's only limited to how far your creep tumor is. That's why you kill theirs and plant your own to limit their sight/map control.
@xXTobbe1337Xx just cause he doesnt like them doesnt mean he is stupid. I personally, dont like HD cause i think he is kinda dull and boring. But i loooovee Husky.
Psy ur doing a great job, keep it up!
@KAmaKAsa1 It was never about the quantity, it's about the quality.... and the moves :)
perfect buffoon comment psy, i love old engilsh insults! esp rube and ruffian
a 24 min ZvZ woah
Buttloaves should have dropped a spore colony; he had the evo chamber already and he could have detected the slush burrow play earlier.
@vincent230192 yeah, imo don't go hydra in zvz unless you need to (to counter muta). They don't do well against roach armies and they're easily countered by banelings.
@G00SE216 Yeah, I think of it as Husky making more of an entertaining and tense show, whereas Psy is analyzing down to the smallest detail
@TheHappyOctopus I disagree, the pausing for analysis is what makes me prefer Psy over Husky or HD. I say if you're watching replays, take advantage of the opportunity to stop and get a feel for strategy and the overall picture every once in a while.
one way to deal with what he says is by testing it for yourself
Why is SC2 time different than real time?
@Vizenify Wrong. Creep does not give you vision. The tumors are what give you vision.
@haxorkecie Why not? it's free scouting.
@OzzyRebourn then don't play the game?
LOVE THE STEWIE IMPERSONATION
How's that novel you've been working on? You know, the one you've been working on for three years?
Hahahah..... Msbuttloaves doesn't beat my name... "PoonSlayer"
i think ive heard buttloaves enough for one day
Slush is Canadian. So he lives in Canada :P
Slush is from Canada.
@Phobia3472 You see how a simple Blizzard game can bring up a whole topic of philosophy and ethics? This game has a power, one greater than you or I
did anybody get the stewie reference? :D
ZIRGLINGZ!!! Attack!
PSYYYY UR BAAAACK :D
wheres the squirt bottle sign off
Psy, your creep gives you vision and not your opponent...
: )
I love animol as well
@rl0u8888 haha didn't fine any... i was just trolling
@riklucero because the time spends as "faster", it's not in normal speed...
@hujimix banelings are a huge waste against roaches- 7 banelings per roach in cost and 7 banelings to kill 1 roach, and you lose the banelings. Hydras can stand behind a line of roaches and dish out intense dps while the roaches tank. And carpet bombing requires a lot of apm, far more than is worth to try and use on roaches
"roach to hydra ratio at least 2:1" ... I donno m8 ... I've tested two armies on a map called "unit tester" , 1st army made of 6 roaches and 6 hydras the 2nd army just 12 roaches... I tested two battles, one with roach spd and hydra range w/o any armor or dmg upg , and the 2nd battle with roach spd , hydra range and +3 to both armor and dmg... and I gotta say , using attack command on ground OR focus firing either unit type , makes the army with 1:1 roach/hydra win every single battle