I've had the ADS200 for 4 years.. it's the best piece of soldering gear on my bench. You might have a lemon. I did the IC upgrade about 4 years back shortly after purchasing and it's been smooth as butter ever since. Gets to Temp in a sec or two. Stable and carefree. The tips are pure pleasure and priced way below what they should be. I can't help but laugh 🤣 at those viewers calling this beauty fugly. It's pure made in USA Gorgeous and beats the hell out of most designs The stand is top notch and built like a tank. I call 'em like I see them..and the Pace ADS200 is pure soldering bliss! 😀👍
Good call meter man! Must be the reason Dave Jones uses his Pace as his 'daily driver". He complains all his JBC tips never wet well because they corrode way too fast.
As an EE I have used PACE soldering equipment through the years from SensaTemp to IntlliHeat to AccuDrive. As a IPC Certified Trainer the electronic subassembly soldering needs are much different than the hobbiest market. Some PACE observations over the years: With the introduction of RoHs and move to lead free solders PACE should have introduced a setback feature and stand for the PS-90 IntelliHeat handpiece for production in increasing tip and heater life (similar to using an MBT-350 with the TD-100 with ISP cubby). The PS-90 is rated for around 50W, but still works great for production and the tips are very inexpensive compared to the ADS200. I feel the heater could have been improved for slightly higher power (80W) output and longevity at higher lead-free temps (a redesign). If they did this I would have to have a specific need to move to a cartridge based heater (smaller for factor) like the PACE IntelliHeat TD-100 Cartridge based handpiece or the ADS200 handpiece cartridge and unit. According to PACE the ADS200 is targeted for IPC electronic assembly. But lacks an ethernet port for production auditing (traceability), remote troubleshooting and firmware upgrades. Also, it is strange that the aluminum body (extrusion) is not used to heat sink the electronics which would remove the need for front and back vents. In a production environment the assembly benches are setup for the soldering tasks required, and unless it is rework, the production worker is usually locked out of changing any soldering parameters. For large and small soldering tasks at the same bench you could see two seperate ADS200 stations with different tips, rather than changing tips and adjusting temperature match calibration ("offset"). This is where the setback and auto off (just turning off the heater) features are very valuable. I always thought it would make more sense for the heater auto-off to be a delay after setback (like an adder), and then unit auto-off an adder to heater auto-off after that. I was surprised that the offerings after IntelliHeat still used a country specific model number for wiring the transformer and not a universal switching approach to power the electronics and heater. I do like how the ADS200 cartridges are keyed, because at time a chisel is used to bend and pry through hole leads (crude I know), and it is good that the cartridge can't rotate in the handle. In my opion PACE really owns the Rework environment and not core production. The skill for rework is considerable in comparison to basic production. If you want to know more about PACE history as I know it just let me know.
I have one of these and I like the fact that it is built like a tank with easy to use controls. I have a hakko 888d as well and while that is a nice design it is fiddly to control with its 2 buttons. I also like that fact that the Pace says "Made in USA" on the back. Americans know what they're doing when it comes to making tools and "Made in USA" is a reassuring sign of quality 👍
@@Gubalicious Totally 👍 Agree! Made in USA 🇺🇸 gives me goosebumps. I've had this for almost 5 years now and it's still going strong..even looks brand new. I use it at least 5x a week. Great build quality and reliability and boy does this unit heat up fast !!!
The 80's called, they want their design back. They could use a more modern UI and a way to update FW without replacing ICs, and yeah, that capacitor shouldn't be there.
and yet so many posters were saying in the eev forum that its a "feature" that this thing has a basic stone age design... No, you could have the same iron with a USB port for firmware upgrades and it wouldn't detract from the quality of the unit at all.
I've been following the EEVBlog ADS200 forum thread for a long while, then about 6 months ago I got the ADS200. I did read about the tips issues, but I assumed the kinks would be ironed out by now. I don't usually do anything requiring a lot of power so can't comment on that, but I did get the CHP error/not properly inserted soldering iron tip quite a few times with my super fat chisel tip, a known issue with various tips in that forum thread. (Pace 1/4" Chisel (6.35mm) PAC11310055-P1) I didn't actually check the plastic molding or try to figure it out like you did in the video though, I probably should. It could even just be me not pushing it in hard enough, but I would attribute that to a design flaw, as the tip should really make a click or have some feedback when it is correctly inserted. Also, I feel like it's possible to have the tip like...50% inserted, where it will work very poorly, but not give the CHP error, which is even worse than if it always gave the CHP error when the tip was not inserted correctly, but I haven't verified this.
Yes it did occur to me that had I managed to push that tip 2 mm further in, it would have made contact but likely a very poor contact with the potential for overheating the connections.
ADS200 Tips can be changed without turning off the base unit or adjusting the temperature. Instead of a click for proper seating all PACE really needed was to put a small ridge in the cartridge as a withness mark flush when in-line with the handpiece front face to show proper seating much like the click ridge in HAKKO cartridges. In my experience the cartridge stations are more readily found in production rework rather than main production work flow where stations like Weller WE-1010 or FX-888D are used where only tips are changed rather than a cartridge, and I should add, the maintenance routine of replacing handpiece parts as they fail, like grips, cable, heater, etc, even for autofeed units. Obviously, there are exceptions depending on the soldering task. For a cartridge based soldering handpiece, given the expense of the tips, for lead-free soldering a temperature setback feature is highly recommended and probably manditory if the ADS200 was used in main line manufacturing, which I don't really see happening. For prototype and production rework I have primarily used PACE equipment. From SensaTemp to IntelliHeat to AccuDrive. PACE tends to improve their products over time both non-cartridge and cartridge based hand pieces. For example the 51W PS-90 is a very capable Weller WE-1010 like handpiece, with a very easy socketed heater element assembly when the heater fails. PS-90 is very popular with both SensaTemp and IntelliHeat versions. Getting back to the ADS200 in rework, it is much faster with large and small soldering tasks to have two ADS200 systems with setback stands rather than changing tips. Two stations are needed if you prefer any dual iron (two handed) techniques rather than tweezers, which I do all the time. Depending on what you are manufacturing you may have to segregate lead and lead-free tips. The ADS200 stand is easy to clean. I use a piece of oak hardwood to knock off the solder then clean with IPA. I take out the PACE stand removable wire brass holder and use a stand-alone Hakko 599B usually with two Weller wire brass cleaners stuffed in. I then use the stand vacant wire brass area as a smash spot to knock solder off the tip, or I use an old PACE MBT-250 stand alone sponge holder without the sponge as a smash tray. I use distilled water for the sponges and it is relatively easy to keep the stands looking like new. If you look at the form factor of the ADS200 handpiece it is clear to me that the design is for relatively low thermal mass tasks. For SMT power packages I think the goto is with board preheat, solder paste and hot air while minding temperature preheat ramps with a board thermocouple and a hot air profile with another thermocouple to monitor the local board temperature. In production rework you are usually modifying many boards of the same type with the same device change(s). It is possible to experient and close loop the hot air application if you station supports profiles with TC feedback. When set up properly the task can be greatly automated to almost hands free depending on how you want to physically remove the part. Preheat and hot air soldering will take time if the temperature profiles are designed to minimize board and part heat stress. If you heat a part too quickly with a lot of hot air flow you could damage the part. This is important especially to the part test engineer.
It's partly why it's a little bit puzzling. The MX5200 is 'only' rated for 80W, but clearly it doesn't suffer from some of the limitations we're seeing on other systems. Theoretically, the PACE, JBC, GT120 and Quick should all outperform it, but for some reason they don't. I will do a review of the MX5200 in a similar manner to these recent videos.
@@sdgelectronics Quite weird that on metcal's website for MX5220 (MX5200 does not seem to exist anymore) it says power is 'Output Power: Variable, 40 W max'
@@acoustic61 That would be awesome but the circuitry required is quite complex and expensive so i dont think anybody would buy it Although i wish i had a handle and a tip to experiment, maybe a crude one is possible
I always bought Weller historically however I required a good de-soldering station and wasn’t prepared to purchase the Weller units due to excessive cost. I ended up purchasing the Pace ST115. It is an exceptionally good de-soldering station (& gun) and far outperforms any of those cheaper de-soldering stations (I went through about three of them before I switched). The ST115 is well made, and it is clear the internals have been designed with service / maintenance in mind.
Looks like all the irons this far are good and the people that already bought one of these stations should be happy with their purchase. But exciting for us using older style irons and eagerly waiting to buy a new modern type one. Really interested in all the comparisons to come.
@@sdgelectronics Just out of curiosity do common electronic devices pcbs ( mobile phones, tablets, laptops et cetera ) fall in the category of normal pcbs?
I bought a ads200 about 6 months ago ago. I think it was a package deal with 3 tips for 380.00. It’s worked well for all of my amplifier repairs so far. I’ve used the same tip for 6 months now with no issues. If I’m desoldering a transformer or power terminals I use my Hakko for-301. Haven’t tried to use the pace. I’ll give it a go next time I need to remove a large thermal part and update my comment.
I had just ordered one of these but seeing your review I had to cancel it. I think the biggest killer for me that I didn't realize was the iron itself. Considering I prefer chisel and knife tips , The cartridge only going in one way and then a fixed grip on the the handle along with poor stress relief just doesn't seem like a good product. Thank you for the timely review. I think I'm going to go with the MX or CV 5200 series it looks like it always performs very well for you
@@sdgelectronics Question! You said you use exclusively the standard 412°C Metcal cartridges. This sounds insanely hot to me, even for lead-free. Would you recommend I try it out anyhow? Have you tried other ranges, and were there situations where you wanted a cooler iron, particularly with SAC305?
@@alexstone691 Newer than the CV-5200 review coming or the GT120 already reviewed - twice? ruclips.net/video/Z-hwjWW4G_A/видео.html ruclips.net/video/O8ryYzdDTEc/видео.html
You, too? Seconds from buying into JBC last week, then up comes SDG. Bought the CV-5210 from Mouser Yesterday. XD The whole Connection Validation thing seems pretty wank, though. Apparently, a sponge will trigger "good IMC formation". However, I'm noticing MX parts disappearing from their catalogue. Don't want to get forced to upgrade later because they decide some hand piece is obsolete.
I watched Dave's review when it was released and it looks like the tips are still having similar issues. I like the built quality of this station with its all aluminium body and the sturdy and robust appearance. The iron itself looks great, elegant above all. It's a pity that it came last on your coin race. Mike's Radio Repair is a big fan of Paces and he did a review on this as well. His initial problems with the tips were solved by the Pace's customer services with great pace. But it was about two years back and the issues should've been resolved for good now. Based on your review, this Pace is a loser especially when it's price has increased significantly since its launch. Thanks.
Yes your conclusion is correct and that is that Pace ADS200 is not suitable for high thermal capacity soldering. Is good for occasionally soldering something with high thermal mass but you need to wait longer. Not sure if the construction of the tips is the problem or their PID control or both. It was maybe one of the reasons I got the larger more powerful JBC HDE 250W station for soldering high thermal mass components. Is not just about the higher power but both the PID and the tips (while more expensive) are superior on JBC. I did a test with large pad on a 2.5mm thick Aluminium core PCB and I managed to get the large PACE tip stuck to the board without the ability to get it out so I needed to use the JBC to get the PACE tip unstuck while JBC was set at 80C lower temperature. comfortableattractivetroughconnectorsbetween
A current clamp that plugs into an oscilloscope would give a better picture of the power driven into that iron. The power meter really only gives you snapshots.
Dave did a scope capture, but it's difficult to see what was really going on. The snapshots seen on the power meter are integrated between updates, rather than instantaneous. I'll see if there's a clear way to see what it's doing.
Steve first of all Thank You!! for doing a Honest review! I can confirm that they are' Rugged & as you say built like a Tank! I dropped mine down the stairs. (House move) All it did was dent the edges of the casing and crack the LED cover. Still worked after its fall. (checked internal 1st) Yes! As for the handle it does fade but only slightly. No! sticky rubber residue yet! 3yrs on & off use. I did look into grips but gave up! The P-- (Password) is useful if you don't want teens/children using it untended. 🖖👍
I don't struggle much but.. If I do i just power up the Metcal or JBC most of the time though, I can lift things like mosfets on big ground planes with the Pace, using Ultra-Performance Tips. The standard tips still get used for small work in Ham radio.
You suspect wrong about the handle getting tacky. I'm one of the 1st to own one and I've used it 3 years daily. I have over 30 tips and none have that plastic lip restricting insertion. This is likely a better buy in the US though.
@@sdgelectronics Oh, didn't know that. I have a T12 STM based station but I really would like to get a better solder station. The one I have is from KSGER and the soldering part of it works well and the tips are very affordable but I don't like the flimsy station. So I was thinking of getting a genuine 951 and use the T12 tips from KSGER.
@@sdgelectronics I were surprised how many fake's there are. I ended up going to hakko's site to be sure to get a genuine FX-888D from a proper seller.
@@sdgelectronics I am glad other viewers had the same question and the same idea I did. I’d love to see a comparison of the 951 to the other, obviously more expensive, stations. From what I can tell, it should perform favorably. I think I am going to send them a quick message, asking them to consider donating one to the cause. I am genuinely interested in purchasing one soon. The only thing that has kept me from pulling the trigger on the purchase is that I don’t want to buy a $260 station, plus tips, just to find out that I need to immediately purchase a $600-$1000 one in addition, just to get the work I need done. I could ask my employer to make the purchase/s - and they would - but I naturally see no value in wasting their cash.
They sell thermocouples with lugs that you might be able to solder on the other side of the coin with high melting point solder, and that might give you a better idea of what's going on.
Nice review, I look forward for more I am curious what a golden oldie as the Pace MBT 250 or 350 would do. I have the MBT-250 and from today also a new 350 (with the cartridge tip handpiece), a Metcal MFR1351 and a Weller WS-81. The Weller is OK, just enough power but I have it at 450 degrees and only use it for smd. The Metcal solders fine, that is, if it works, quality is very bad. But my Pace PS-90 iron has on paper everything against it. Classic (extreme long lasting) tips, old fashionned look, mounted with a screw !! slow heating, as far as I could found only 60W or so. But in (my) real professional life, this thing never let me down, tips changing is a few seconds, also hot, tips cost next to nothing, they sell it for centuries so every part is available (and even cheap) and I have soldered things with the temp at 320 to 380C (it can go much higher) that brought the Metcal and Weller on there knees. Temp is spot on and display reads the tip temp. Even for hard jobs the tip stays very close to the (calibrated) set temp. But you never see them in comparing reviews. This thing is ridiculous powerful. A wolf dressed as a sheep. I see it as follows, the JBC and other modern stations are sportcars, fast, lots of horsepower, lower torque, but you must use them with care not to kill the expensive tips. The Pace MBT on the other hand it a mac-truck, enough HP, slow heating but brute force, plenty torque and build like a tank and looking like it is designed 100 years ago (but I like that) No fancy graphs, happy colors, even the brochures look like they designed them in the 70's I also get it why you do not see many reviews, before the excellent review from the Pace in this video, they did not had an affordable station. I made some videos but it costs a lot of time, not only filming but for most the editing. And most of my repairs are not gonna fit in a video (the interesting ones can take 10 to 20 hours) The only professionals that show soldering on youtube are laptop/phone repairshops and that is, regarding soldering, a world on its own not comparable to what I for instance do (industrial board repair and calibration- and measurement-gear). A lot of through hole and thick boards, huge psu planes, conformal coatings. My Pace does it, the Metcal had a (to) hard time and constantly broke down (I had 2 stations) I bought the MBT350 only because good my experience with the 250 and the fact that the SX100 is on off the best desoldering handpieces for sale. If I never would have used one, I do not think I would have bought the Pace because I just would not have know how capable it is. I probably would have bought a JBC. Also a lot of money but if it is your job you need to have 100% trust in your gear. If I can not desolder my work stops until the desolder iron is fixed/replaced
I suspect the MBT would beat many of the other stations. Sadly, in general we've moved away from the big, bulky industrial items that were built to last. This is doing a good job of being built to last, it just suffers a bit with the performance as I think it's geared towards lighter soldering.
@@sdgelectronics Nope. I had a single Pace 6mm chisel working 8 hours for a week desoldering hundreds of PSU boards. You just haven't owned this beast long enough.. Dave Jones prefers his over his JBC.
The cost of everything in a covid world has doubled for production equipment and won't see a return to reasonable pricing for several years. I've had a MBT350 for several years and works without issues. have an smr on order.
I put together an MX-500 station from used parts acquired on eBay about ten years ago and have been very happy with it. I've been watching all the soldering equipment reviews, here and elsewhere, to see if there's anything I'd be happier with. So far I've seen no reason to use anything other than my old Metcal. I wish it had automatic setback or auto-off (I've left it on for long periods a couple of times), but that's a minor quibble. Anyway, thanks for the excellent reviews!
The MX-500 will go into reduced temperature mode if you have the stand with a magnet in it. It changes the curie point of the heater to drop the temperature down. The WS-1 should work on the black handpiece I think.
Your results really suprised me. I have two ads200 stations, 1 with the soldering Iron and 1 with the tweezers. The stations have been amazing. I just tried the penny test-with a US 1 cent; had totally different results from you. At 330 C the results I had look the the result you get with the high end Metcal, tried 3 different pennys. I think you have a bad batch of tips or a bad station, which I find hard to beleive because I have a ton tips for the iron and the tweezers and have never had a problem. Not sure what to think. I would contact Pace,
It has to be a firmware thing. Do you know what revision is on your controller? You could see the temperature drop by about 20°C on the readout but the station wasn't trying to add more power to the tip. That says to me there's nothing wrong with the tip or handpiece.
One of my subscribers sent me a PCB a while back, I got half way through building it but gave up in the end. I'll see if I can muster up the enthusiasm to continue!
@@sdgelectronics Thanks for considering that. If you think it might be helpful to viewers to see a UniSolder station in the comparison, but it's just time-constraints or similar that might prevent it from being included, I'd be happy to send you a fully-assembled one (on loan, I cover shipping both ways).
Curious about how this would stand up against the cheapest flexible soldering stations e.g. KSGER T12. I'm always looking for upgrades to my kit, but at a sensible price for a hobbyist, the KSGER T12 is unbeatable for the price and features...
The performance should be comparable. T12 has pretty good performance and genuine hakko tips last like forever. Although they aren't jbc or metcal good, they easily hold against pace, hakko, quick.
Like most Chinese products, the firmware needs a lot of work. If I overload my Fakeo, the green LED turns yellow, and it just gives up and shuts down the party. I have to power cycle the front switch. Can't complain though. I use it weekly for 4 years now, and only 3 tip changes. Great value for the $40 I paid for it.
25:08 but from the video it seams that the stand for the handle is so bulky that compared with JBC Compact series stations it is only a bit smaller in volume then whole JBC station. I give JBC credit because it does not require a tool and second hand to change a tip. Also the same control unit supports different size handles T245 and T210. Can you use small Metcal handpiece 9:18 with the same station as you use for bigger handpiece?
Yes, the ultrafine handpiece works on the same PS5200 power supply, however I picked up an MX-500P power supply a while back which I leave it connected to since I use the 2nd port on the PS5200 for the desoldering gun.
Depending on where you buy it, it's more expensive than JBC CD-2BQF (up to 80€) or nearly equal, in Germany. Price difference of tips is approx. 4€ each (Pace: 19€ vs JBC: 23€) and there seem to be lots more options on JBCs side.
I know it’s not directly related to this specific video, but do you have any others that specifically deal with equipment for very fine pitch soldering? I’m talking about 0603 and below. Hakko, for instance, offer some unique tips and cartridges for high-precision work. Having never used those types of specialized tools, I wonder how much of a difference they would make versus a fine point traditional tip/cartridge. To be honest, I don’t even know if the tips/cartridges feature specialized alloys that may affect the surface tension or whatnot, or what other, specialized features they may have. If you don’t already have one, I think it would make a nice addition to your collection of excellent videos.
Hakko T12 tips come in a nice ~0.8 mm (if I recall) chisel that I've done a few hundred 0402s with and have no complaints. Very easy to work with, and in a pinch it can desolder parts with braid quite easily as well. I think I paid less than 90 USD for the Ksger and the tips (from hakko). Just wish one of these Chinese companies would make a nice tweezer set.
can you help me please? I can buy something like this: Pace MBT 350 soldering and desoldering station used in excellent condition. It comes with the : MT100 soldering tweezers, TD100 soldering iron, SX90 desoldering iron. It comes also with extra iron tips and few other tips. What do you think? i need to specify that i am a begginer in electronics.
The old Pace MBT 350 is a very good triple channel SensaTemp system, the leader in soldering rework until the Weller triple channel was offered which is also a very capable unit. It was designed in an era of leaded solder, meaning no stand setback function. It will support the newer PS-90 SensaTemp handpiece and the SX-100 SensaTemp Desoldering handpiece. Both the PS-90 and the SX-100 are very capable handpieces. The SX-100 is arguably the best de-soldering handpiece on the market for maintenance and heavy use. The PS-90 uses replaceable tips and is not cartridge based, but it does have a relatively high 90 watt heater, and is very capable and the tips are relatively inexpensive. You can add the TJ-70 ThermoJet SensaTemp handpiece to your set to do very fine hot air soldering and de-soldering. The TJ-70 has the finest hot air tip offered by any manufacturer. It is very useful in soldering 01005 SMD components using solder paste. You can use the MBT 350 for lead-free soldering, you just need to minimize the handpiece on time. I use the MBT 350 for tin-lead prototype work. For lead-free I move to the ADS200. Pace just came out with their MBT 360 three channel which uses a combination of AccuDrive (ADS200 style cartridges, two channels) and a single channel SensaTemp for the SX-100.
Interesting. I bought an ADS200 station more than a year ago. Since my work slowed with the pandemic it's still in the box. I love the build quality but I may sell it and get something different. Chinese T12 stations seem very economical. Tips are cheap. Also some Chinese stations which use JBC tips. Even some which have an SMPS power supply now. However, JBC clone stations and tips are expensive just because they're JBC compatible. Not sure I need that for thru hole and point to point wiring. Maybe a Unisolder project is in the future.
I've struggled a little with the T12 stations, primarily because I can't find one with a quality handpiece. The driving hardware is generally fine however.
@@sdgelectronics Seems there is no perfect solution. I thought the same thing about the generic T12 handpieces when searching. I suppose you could use a genuine Hakko handpiece but it's around $80-100 US for the plastic handle. When I'm working, I use the iron frequently and need reliability. And I do mostly repair work on vintage stuff and it's a bit rough on tips, prying parts out and such. So tip cost is important consideration for me. My old Weller has been pretty reliable but recovers slowly compared to today's best stations. How do you find the quality of the generic T12 tips? And the thermal performance? I know it's not as good as JBC or Pace. Metcal seems like the king of thermal performance but it's pricey.
Generic T12 tips were generally OK, but I also had a few that the station wouldn't detect. The metal handpiece I reviewed with the KSGER station feels OK, but recently it doesn't always make good contact with the tips. I didn't investigate too much though.
@@sdgelectronics The K tip has a lengthy side which is good for removing SMD resistors and replacing them. There's also a sharp end so you can simply turn the handle around to reach hard to reach positions. I think it's a very versatile tip. I have been using them with JBC but they break quite easily. It also dumps much more heat then thinner tips. I also like the C210-028 tip a lot but those are even more fragile. So I have been using Chinese made K tips from relife for a while. They are almost as good in performance but at 1/5 of the price, also last longer.
@@johnyang799 I too like knife tips for many things. I see plenty of knife tips (for MX & CV anyway) I was just looking at them earlier on the metcal site. They are more expensive tho. Even have a 10 pack for sal
What is the purpose of the earth wire that goes to the front panel, is it connected to the tip via a resistor, or is it connected to the DC GND or just floating. Asking as I am making a ESP8266 based triac driven for T12 tip station (as there are not enough soldering stations in the world and my current station has buttons like this Pace and buttons suck so mine design has rotary encoder and display with Set Point and PV readings, pie in the sky stuff) and curios how it should be grounded.
@@Mr.Leeroy I would welcome any insights you may have. I have recently run tests and it seems to function well with fast heat up and reasonable stability. Just need some test pennies. I figured the tip is just a thermocouple in series with the heater and so should be ok to drive with 24VAC via a Triac. I hope to upload to hackaday once I have tested boards but would be keen to upload if anyone would like to critique the schematic and layout. ( I would pay for that as it would be a great targeted learning opportunity)
@@kissingfrogs Ok, for a second I though you were about to apply mains amounts of voltage to it. While it arguably does not matter for heater what are you going to use AC or DC, it still would be easier to use DC with mosfet for a couple of reasons. First, 24VAC is a bit low for average Diac to trigger your Triac, I'm not sure it is even doable. Secondly, power control feedback loop would be a lot easier with DC. So just use something like a readily-available Meanwell AC-DC 24V SMPS and build your controller from there. I would also advise against ESP8266 here, unless you are after some IoT soldering station (LOL). Pick any uC you like without wireless built-in, it would be easier. Something like BluePill is a good choice in terms of resources in case you want fancy display, menus, etc and in terms of ease of use even for a beginner (with STM32duino core).
@@Mr.Leeroy Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated. You are correct about 'bit low for average Diac to trigger' I encountered this issue when using a transformer to hand for testing with output that was less than 20VAC. It did not turn off. It proved to be quite a puzzle until the piclist pointed out my error and referred me back to the data sheet that states a min of 20VAC. I had considered the SMPS option but dismissed it in favour of the 'challenge' such as the requirement to ensure that the triac is off before sampling the TC voltage. The ESP8266 is used to provide an elaborate overkill web interface that allows me to tweak all the PID parameters as it graphs all the variable as they are computed. An earlier example of this web interface is my jerky drier hackaday.io/project/26235-easycook-jerky-dehydrator-hack. I feel like I have hijacked Steve's youtube video. Sorry Steve.
I see stone-age design comments. I'd ask, why are the buttons made of expensive burn-proof silicone rubber? Is it too pragmatic to imagine using a hot tip to press them while holding onto work piece(s) with the other hand?
With that price point you can expect the label at the bottom be at least the right size, not hanging partly above the slit, badly printed. The inside of the front plate is scratched, flux residues on PCB. Granted none of those matter if the unit would at least function well. Just not good quality assurance.
Not sure what you expected. That is the way of commoditized electronics. No one is putting in the RD and thought to make better stuff. The fact you would be willing to pay so much for something like this boggles my mind.
It's got such a popular reputation, so these videos are to help someone who is thinking about dropping their hard earned money on what might be the only premium solder station they ever buy.
I remember being seduced by this station's rugged build and nice price, but then getting hit hard with stickershock when I saved up enough and was ready to commit to a purchase not long later. Talk about heartbreak.
I don't understand why people buy this thing. You can spend $300 on this thing or $100 on a T3A, $200 on a T420 or $300 on a T420D. All of them having better soldering performance. Maybe someone can explain this to me.
Not worth the money. Want decent quality, buy Hakko for a faction of its cost. Want ultimate performance buy JBC for a same price. Want to use in production environment, buy china stuff.
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I've had the ADS200 for 4 years.. it's the best piece of soldering gear on my bench. You might have a lemon. I did the IC upgrade about 4 years back shortly after purchasing and it's been smooth as butter ever since. Gets to Temp in a sec or two. Stable and carefree. The tips are pure pleasure and priced way below what they should be. I can't help but laugh 🤣 at those viewers calling this beauty fugly. It's pure made in USA Gorgeous and beats the hell out of most designs The stand is top notch and built like a tank. I call 'em like I see them..and the Pace ADS200 is pure soldering bliss! 😀👍
Good call meter man! Must be the reason Dave Jones uses his Pace as his 'daily driver". He complains all his JBC tips never wet well because they corrode way too fast.
As an EE I have used PACE soldering equipment through the years from SensaTemp to IntlliHeat to AccuDrive. As a IPC Certified Trainer the electronic subassembly soldering needs are much different than the hobbiest market.
Some PACE observations over the years:
With the introduction of RoHs and move to lead free solders PACE should have introduced a setback feature and stand for the PS-90 IntelliHeat handpiece for production in increasing tip and heater life (similar to using an MBT-350 with the TD-100 with ISP cubby). The PS-90 is rated for around 50W, but still works great for production and the tips are very inexpensive compared to the ADS200. I feel the heater could have been improved for slightly higher power (80W) output and longevity at higher lead-free temps (a redesign). If they did this I would have to have a specific need to move to a cartridge based heater (smaller for factor) like the PACE IntelliHeat TD-100 Cartridge based handpiece or the ADS200 handpiece cartridge and unit.
According to PACE the ADS200 is targeted for IPC electronic assembly. But lacks an ethernet port for production auditing (traceability), remote troubleshooting and firmware upgrades. Also, it is strange that the aluminum body (extrusion) is not used to heat sink the electronics which would remove the need for front and back vents. In a production environment the assembly benches are setup for the soldering tasks required, and unless it is rework, the production worker is usually locked out of changing any soldering parameters. For large and small soldering tasks at the same bench you could see two seperate ADS200 stations with different tips, rather than changing tips and adjusting temperature match calibration ("offset"). This is where the setback and auto off (just turning off the heater) features are very valuable. I always thought it would make more sense for the heater auto-off to be a delay after setback (like an adder), and then unit auto-off an adder to heater auto-off after that.
I was surprised that the offerings after IntelliHeat still used a country specific model number for wiring the transformer and not a universal switching approach to power the electronics and heater. I do like how the ADS200 cartridges are keyed, because at time a chisel is used to bend and pry through hole leads (crude I know), and it is good that the cartridge can't rotate in the handle.
In my opion PACE really owns the Rework environment and not core production. The skill for rework is considerable in comparison to basic production.
If you want to know more about PACE history as I know it just let me know.
I have one of these and I like the fact that it is built like a tank with easy to use controls. I have a hakko 888d as well and while that is a nice design it is fiddly to control with its 2 buttons.
I also like that fact that the Pace says "Made in USA" on the back.
Americans know what they're doing when it comes to making tools and "Made in USA" is a reassuring sign of quality 👍
@@Gubalicious Totally 👍 Agree! Made in USA 🇺🇸 gives me goosebumps. I've had this for almost 5 years now and it's still going strong..even looks brand new. I use it at least 5x a week. Great build quality and reliability and boy does this unit heat up fast !!!
@@windward2818 Excellent observations, Wind Ward. Thanks.
The 80's called, they want their design back. They could use a more modern UI and a way to update FW without replacing ICs, and yeah, that capacitor shouldn't be there.
and yet so many posters were saying in the eev forum that its a "feature" that this thing has a basic stone age design... No, you could have the same iron with a USB port for firmware upgrades and it wouldn't detract from the quality of the unit at all.
These recent soldering station videos just keep proving how good the Metcal MX-5000 or Thermaltronics TMT-9000S stations really are.
I've been following the EEVBlog ADS200 forum thread for a long while, then about 6 months ago I got the ADS200. I did read about the tips issues, but I assumed the kinks would be ironed out by now.
I don't usually do anything requiring a lot of power so can't comment on that, but I did get the CHP error/not properly inserted soldering iron tip quite a few times with my super fat chisel tip, a known issue with various tips in that forum thread. (Pace 1/4" Chisel (6.35mm) PAC11310055-P1)
I didn't actually check the plastic molding or try to figure it out like you did in the video though, I probably should. It could even just be me not pushing it in hard enough, but I would attribute that to a design flaw, as the tip should really make a click or have some feedback when it is correctly inserted.
Also, I feel like it's possible to have the tip like...50% inserted, where it will work very poorly, but not give the CHP error, which is even worse than if it always gave the CHP error when the tip was not inserted correctly, but I haven't verified this.
Yes it did occur to me that had I managed to push that tip 2 mm further in, it would have made contact but likely a very poor contact with the potential for overheating the connections.
ADS200 Tips can be changed without turning off the base unit or adjusting the temperature. Instead of a click for proper seating all PACE really needed was to put a small ridge in the cartridge as a withness mark flush when in-line with the handpiece front face to show proper seating much like the click ridge in HAKKO cartridges.
In my experience the cartridge stations are more readily found in production rework rather than main production work flow where stations like Weller WE-1010 or FX-888D are used where only tips are changed rather than a cartridge, and I should add, the maintenance routine of replacing handpiece parts as they fail, like grips, cable, heater, etc, even for autofeed units. Obviously, there are exceptions depending on the soldering task. For a cartridge based soldering handpiece, given the expense of the tips, for lead-free soldering a temperature setback feature is highly recommended and probably manditory if the ADS200 was used in main line manufacturing, which I don't really see happening.
For prototype and production rework I have primarily used PACE equipment. From SensaTemp to IntelliHeat to AccuDrive. PACE tends to improve their products over time both non-cartridge and cartridge based hand pieces. For example the 51W PS-90 is a very capable Weller WE-1010 like handpiece, with a very easy socketed heater element assembly when the heater fails. PS-90 is very popular with both SensaTemp and IntelliHeat versions.
Getting back to the ADS200 in rework, it is much faster with large and small soldering tasks to have two ADS200 systems with setback stands rather than changing tips. Two stations are needed if you prefer any dual iron (two handed) techniques rather than tweezers, which I do all the time. Depending on what you are manufacturing you may have to segregate lead and lead-free tips.
The ADS200 stand is easy to clean. I use a piece of oak hardwood to knock off the solder then clean with IPA. I take out the PACE stand removable wire brass holder and use a stand-alone Hakko 599B usually with two Weller wire brass cleaners stuffed in. I then use the stand vacant wire brass area as a smash spot to knock solder off the tip, or I use an old PACE MBT-250 stand alone sponge holder without the sponge as a smash tray. I use distilled water for the sponges and it is relatively easy to keep the stands looking like new.
If you look at the form factor of the ADS200 handpiece it is clear to me that the design is for relatively low thermal mass tasks. For SMT power packages I think the goto is with board preheat, solder paste and hot air while minding temperature preheat ramps with a board thermocouple and a hot air profile with another thermocouple to monitor the local board temperature. In production rework you are usually modifying many boards of the same type with the same device change(s). It is possible to experient and close loop the hot air application if you station supports profiles with TC feedback. When set up properly the task can be greatly automated to almost hands free depending on how you want to physically remove the part. Preheat and hot air soldering will take time if the temperature profiles are designed to minimize board and part heat stress. If you heat a part too quickly with a lot of hot air flow you could damage the part. This is important especially to the part test engineer.
The metcal performance on the coin always blows me away how much different it performs even compared to 120w stations
It's partly why it's a little bit puzzling. The MX5200 is 'only' rated for 80W, but clearly it doesn't suffer from some of the limitations we're seeing on other systems. Theoretically, the PACE, JBC, GT120 and Quick should all outperform it, but for some reason they don't. I will do a review of the MX5200 in a similar manner to these recent videos.
@@sdgelectronics Quite weird that on metcal's website for MX5220 (MX5200 does not seem to exist anymore) it says power is 'Output Power: Variable, 40 W max'
Yeah! The metcal is apparently an absolute beast for dumping heat
I'd like to see Metcal compatible tips and stations from China.
@@acoustic61 That would be awesome but the circuitry required is quite complex and expensive so i dont think anybody would buy it
Although i wish i had a handle and a tip to experiment, maybe a crude one is possible
I've had the Pace ADS200 for about a year now, it's great, and definitely worth the money.
Must be a feature to make the tip look like it's a decade old after 5 minutes. For those who like that "vintage" look LOL
Finally, a one to one between the PACE ADS200 and the QUICK TS1200! Thanks a lot 😱
I always bought Weller historically however I required a good de-soldering station and wasn’t prepared to purchase the Weller units due to excessive cost. I ended up purchasing the Pace ST115. It is an exceptionally good de-soldering station (& gun) and far outperforms any of those cheaper de-soldering stations (I went through about three of them before I switched). The ST115 is well made, and it is clear the internals have been designed with service / maintenance in mind.
Looks like all the irons this far are good and the people that already bought one of these stations should be happy with their purchase.
But exciting for us using older style irons and eagerly waiting to buy a new modern type one. Really interested in all the comparisons to come.
To be honest, they'll all do a perfectly fine job on any normal PCB.
@@sdgelectronics probably but i would be mad at them for many things at such a price
@@sdgelectronics Just out of curiosity do common electronic devices pcbs ( mobile phones, tablets, laptops et cetera ) fall in the category of normal pcbs?
I bought a ads200 about 6 months ago ago. I think it was a package deal with 3 tips for 380.00. It’s worked well for all of my amplifier repairs so far. I’ve used the same tip for 6 months now with no issues. If I’m desoldering a transformer or power terminals I use my Hakko for-301. Haven’t tried to use the pace. I’ll give it a go next time I need to remove a large thermal part and update my comment.
I had just ordered one of these but seeing your review I had to cancel it. I think the biggest killer for me that I didn't realize was the iron itself. Considering I prefer chisel and knife tips , The cartridge only going in one way and then a fixed grip on the the handle along with poor stress relief just doesn't seem like a good product. Thank you for the timely review. I think I'm going to go with the MX or CV 5200 series it looks like it always performs very well for you
Stand by for a detailed review of both the MX5200 series and the CV5200 :)
@@sdgelectronics Will you do a review of the newer metcal models as i've seen on amazon people complaining that the quality has gone down the drain
@@sdgelectronics Question! You said you use exclusively the standard 412°C Metcal cartridges. This sounds insanely hot to me, even for lead-free. Would you recommend I try it out anyhow? Have you tried other ranges, and were there situations where you wanted a cooler iron, particularly with SAC305?
@@alexstone691 Newer than the CV-5200 review coming or the GT120 already reviewed - twice?
ruclips.net/video/Z-hwjWW4G_A/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/O8ryYzdDTEc/видео.html
You, too? Seconds from buying into JBC last week, then up comes SDG. Bought the CV-5210 from Mouser Yesterday. XD
The whole Connection Validation thing seems pretty wank, though. Apparently, a sponge will trigger "good IMC formation". However, I'm noticing MX parts disappearing from their catalogue. Don't want to get forced to upgrade later because they decide some hand piece is obsolete.
I watched Dave's review when it was released and it looks like the tips are still having similar issues. I like the built quality of this station with its all aluminium body and the sturdy and robust appearance. The iron itself looks great, elegant above all. It's a pity that it came last on your coin race. Mike's Radio Repair is a big fan of Paces and he did a review on this as well. His initial problems with the tips were solved by the Pace's customer services with great pace. But it was about two years back and the issues should've been resolved for good now. Based on your review, this Pace is a loser especially when it's price has increased significantly since its launch. Thanks.
Yes your conclusion is correct and that is that Pace ADS200 is not suitable for high thermal capacity soldering. Is good for occasionally soldering something with high thermal mass but you need to wait longer. Not sure if the construction of the tips is the problem or their PID control or both. It was maybe one of the reasons I got the larger more powerful JBC HDE 250W station for soldering high thermal mass components. Is not just about the higher power but both the PID and the tips (while more expensive) are superior on JBC.
I did a test with large pad on a 2.5mm thick Aluminium core PCB and I managed to get the large PACE tip stuck to the board without the ability to get it out so I needed to use the JBC to get the PACE tip unstuck while JBC was set at 80C lower temperature.
comfortableattractivetroughconnectorsbetween
Hmm, I was kind of hoping I was the only one to have the issue, but in that case it really sounds like a design fail. I have the JBC HDE on my list.
A current clamp that plugs into an oscilloscope would give a better picture of the power driven into that iron. The power meter really only gives you snapshots.
Dave did a scope capture, but it's difficult to see what was really going on. The snapshots seen on the power meter are integrated between updates, rather than instantaneous. I'll see if there's a clear way to see what it's doing.
Steve first of all Thank You!! for doing a Honest review! I can confirm that they are' Rugged & as you say built like a Tank! I dropped mine down the stairs. (House move)
All it did was dent the edges of the casing and crack the LED cover. Still worked after its fall. (checked internal 1st) Yes! As for the handle it does fade but only slightly.
No! sticky rubber residue yet! 3yrs on & off use. I did look into grips but gave up! The P-- (Password) is useful if you don't want teens/children using it untended. 🖖👍
Thanks, I could happily use this as a daily soldering iron, it's just so odd that it underperformed on the high thermal demand test.
I don't struggle much but.. If I do i just power up the Metcal or JBC most of the time though, I can lift things like mosfets on big ground planes with the Pace, using Ultra-Performance Tips. The standard tips still get used for small work in Ham radio.
You suspect wrong about the handle getting tacky. I'm one of the 1st to own one and I've used it 3 years daily. I have over 30 tips and none have that plastic lip restricting insertion. This is likely a better buy in the US though.
Have you or will you be reviewing any of the Hakkos like the FX-951, FM-203 or FX-100?
I would be interested as well. Thinking of getting a 951.
I'll see if I can get hold of a genuine system. They don't really have a market presence over in the UK so I don't want to import a fake.
@@sdgelectronics Oh, didn't know that. I have a T12 STM based station but I really would like to get a better solder station. The one I have is from KSGER and the soldering part of it works well and the tips are very affordable but I don't like the flimsy station. So I was thinking of getting a genuine 951 and use the T12 tips from KSGER.
@@sdgelectronics I were surprised how many fake's there are. I ended up going to hakko's site to be sure to get a genuine FX-888D from a proper seller.
@@sdgelectronics I am glad other viewers had the same question and the same idea I did. I’d love to see a comparison of the 951 to the other, obviously more expensive, stations. From what I can tell, it should perform favorably. I think I am going to send them a quick message, asking them to consider donating one to the cause. I am genuinely interested in purchasing one soon. The only thing that has kept me from pulling the trigger on the purchase is that I don’t want to buy a $260 station, plus tips, just to find out that I need to immediately purchase a $600-$1000 one in addition, just to get the work I need done. I could ask my employer to make the purchase/s - and they would - but I naturally see no value in wasting their cash.
They sell thermocouples with lugs that you might be able to solder on the other side of the coin with high melting point solder, and that might give you a better idea of what's going on.
2nd. I am suspicious of the front panel reading.
I have a PCB coming which I hope will give a better insight how much actual heating power we're putting into the PCB.
Nice review, I look forward for more
I am curious what a golden oldie as the Pace MBT 250 or 350 would do. I have the MBT-250 and from today also a new 350 (with the cartridge tip handpiece), a Metcal MFR1351 and a Weller WS-81. The Weller is OK, just enough power but I have it at 450 degrees and only use it for smd.
The Metcal solders fine, that is, if it works, quality is very bad.
But my Pace PS-90 iron has on paper everything against it. Classic (extreme long lasting) tips, old fashionned look, mounted with a screw !! slow heating, as far as I could found only 60W or so. But in (my) real professional life, this thing never let me down, tips changing is a few seconds, also hot, tips cost next to nothing, they sell it for centuries so every part is available (and even cheap) and I have soldered things with the temp at 320 to 380C (it can go much higher) that brought the Metcal and Weller on there knees. Temp is spot on and display reads the tip temp. Even for hard jobs the tip stays very close to the (calibrated) set temp.
But you never see them in comparing reviews. This thing is ridiculous powerful. A wolf dressed as a sheep. I see it as follows, the JBC and other modern stations are sportcars, fast, lots of horsepower, lower torque, but you must use them with care not to kill the expensive tips. The Pace MBT on the other hand it a mac-truck, enough HP, slow heating but brute force, plenty torque and build like a tank and looking like it is designed 100 years ago (but I like that) No fancy graphs, happy colors, even the brochures look like they designed them in the 70's
I also get it why you do not see many reviews, before the excellent review from the Pace in this video, they did not had an affordable station.
I made some videos but it costs a lot of time, not only filming but for most the editing. And most of my repairs are not gonna fit in a video (the interesting ones can take 10 to 20 hours) The only professionals that show soldering on youtube are laptop/phone repairshops and that is, regarding soldering, a world on its own not comparable to what I for instance do (industrial board repair and calibration- and measurement-gear). A lot of through hole and thick boards, huge psu planes, conformal coatings. My Pace does it, the Metcal had a (to) hard time and constantly broke down (I had 2 stations) I bought the MBT350 only because good my experience with the 250 and the fact that the SX100 is on off the best desoldering handpieces for sale. If I never would have used one, I do not think I would have bought the Pace because I just would not have know how capable it is. I probably would have bought a JBC. Also a lot of money but if it is your job you need to have 100% trust in your gear. If I can not desolder my work stops until the desolder iron is fixed/replaced
I suspect the MBT would beat many of the other stations. Sadly, in general we've moved away from the big, bulky industrial items that were built to last. This is doing a good job of being built to last, it just suffers a bit with the performance as I think it's geared towards lighter soldering.
@@sdgelectronics Nope. I had a single Pace 6mm chisel working 8 hours for a week desoldering hundreds of PSU boards. You just haven't owned this beast long enough.. Dave Jones prefers his over his JBC.
The cost of everything in a covid world has doubled for production equipment and won't see a return to reasonable pricing for several years. I've had a MBT350 for several years and works without issues. have an smr on order.
MBT 350 is one of the best rework station in the World.
Price is the problem only.
Best Regards.
How does it measure the Temperature on the tip is there a connection at the back of tip that feeds back to the base station?
I put together an MX-500 station from used parts acquired on eBay about ten years ago and have been very happy with it. I've been watching all the soldering equipment reviews, here and elsewhere, to see if there's anything I'd be happier with. So far I've seen no reason to use anything other than my old Metcal. I wish it had automatic setback or auto-off (I've left it on for long periods a couple of times), but that's a minor quibble. Anyway, thanks for the excellent reviews!
The MX-500 will go into reduced temperature mode if you have the stand with a magnet in it. It changes the curie point of the heater to drop the temperature down. The WS-1 should work on the black handpiece I think.
@@sdgelectronics Thanks, Steve, I didn’t know that. I’ll look for one of the WS-1 stands. Cheers!
Just check on the website for the handpiece compatibility, but I'm pretty sure it's the WS-1 stand
Your results really suprised me. I have two ads200 stations, 1 with the soldering Iron and 1 with the tweezers. The stations have been amazing. I just tried the penny test-with a US 1 cent; had totally different results from you. At 330 C the results I had look the the result you get with the high end Metcal, tried 3 different pennys. I think you have a bad batch of tips or a bad station, which I find hard to beleive because I have a ton tips for the iron and the tweezers and have never had a problem. Not sure what to think. I would contact Pace,
It has to be a firmware thing. Do you know what revision is on your controller? You could see the temperature drop by about 20°C on the readout but the station wasn't trying to add more power to the tip. That says to me there's nothing wrong with the tip or handpiece.
Its Rev E. I can record a penny test and send to you if your interested@@sdgelectronics
I'd love to see a UniSolder station thrown into the mix for that upcoming comparison.
One of my subscribers sent me a PCB a while back, I got half way through building it but gave up in the end. I'll see if I can muster up the enthusiasm to continue!
@@sdgelectronics Thanks for considering that. If you think it might be helpful to viewers to see a UniSolder station in the comparison, but it's just time-constraints or similar that might prevent it from being included, I'd be happy to send you a fully-assembled one (on loan, I cover shipping both ways).
@@sdgelectronics Unisolder overview with you approach would be very interesting. Existing YT videos about it suck.
@@Mr.Leeroy OK I'll see what I can do
@@perldition Thanks for your kind offer
I wouldn't worry about the big electrolytic failing through heat from the regulator. That nasty PLCC socket will give trouble first. :)
This will be my upgrade station from Pace ST-50
Curious about how this would stand up against the cheapest flexible soldering stations e.g. KSGER T12. I'm always looking for upgrades to my kit, but at a sensible price for a hobbyist, the KSGER T12 is unbeatable for the price and features...
I use cheapest "all in hand piece" T12 version from ali and it works perfectly for me but i manage to get powersupply for it for free
The performance should be comparable. T12 has pretty good performance and genuine hakko tips last like forever. Although they aren't jbc or metcal good, they easily hold against pace, hakko, quick.
hi Steve, can you tell me what soldering iron has the shortest grip to tip length?
Steven. If you're going to do more comparative tests please include some generic t12 station as well!
Will do, thanks
Like most Chinese products, the firmware needs a lot of work.
If I overload my Fakeo, the green LED turns yellow, and it just gives up and shuts down the party.
I have to power cycle the front switch.
Can't complain though. I use it weekly for 4 years now, and only 3 tip changes. Great value for the $40 I paid for it.
25:08 but from the video it seams that the stand for the handle is so bulky that compared with JBC Compact series stations it is only a bit smaller in volume then whole JBC station. I give JBC credit because it does not require a tool and second hand to change a tip. Also the same control unit supports different size handles T245 and T210. Can you use small Metcal handpiece 9:18 with the same station as you use for bigger handpiece?
Yes, the ultrafine handpiece works on the same PS5200 power supply, however I picked up an MX-500P power supply a while back which I leave it connected to since I use the 2nd port on the PS5200 for the desoldering gun.
Jbc is the best
ADS-200 is the JBC Killer at half of the price.
Not now. But if you own one a few years, TCO will be half because of cheap tips with thick plating.
Depending on where you buy it, it's more expensive than JBC CD-2BQF (up to 80€) or nearly equal, in Germany.
Price difference of tips is approx. 4€ each (Pace: 19€ vs JBC: 23€) and there seem to be lots more options on JBCs side.
I know it’s not directly related to this specific video, but do you have any others that specifically deal with equipment for very fine pitch soldering? I’m talking about 0603 and below. Hakko, for instance, offer some unique tips and cartridges for high-precision work. Having never used those types of specialized tools, I wonder how much of a difference they would make versus a fine point traditional tip/cartridge.
To be honest, I don’t even know if the tips/cartridges feature specialized alloys that may affect the surface tension or whatnot, or what other, specialized features they may have. If you don’t already have one, I think it would make a nice addition to your collection of excellent videos.
Can you point me towards one of the tips you're referring to?
Hakko T12 tips come in a nice ~0.8 mm (if I recall) chisel that I've done a few hundred 0402s with and have no complaints. Very easy to work with, and in a pinch it can desolder parts with braid quite easily as well. I think I paid less than 90 USD for the Ksger and the tips (from hakko). Just wish one of these Chinese companies would make a nice tweezer set.
can you help me please?
I can buy something like this:
Pace MBT 350 soldering and desoldering station used in excellent condition.
It comes with the :
MT100 soldering tweezers,
TD100 soldering iron,
SX90 desoldering iron.
It comes also with extra iron tips and few other tips.
What do you think?
i need to specify that i am a begginer in electronics.
The old Pace MBT 350 is a very good triple channel SensaTemp system, the leader in soldering rework until the Weller triple channel was offered which is also a very capable unit. It was designed in an era of leaded solder, meaning no stand setback function. It will support the newer PS-90 SensaTemp handpiece and the SX-100 SensaTemp Desoldering handpiece. Both the PS-90 and the SX-100 are very capable handpieces. The SX-100 is arguably the best de-soldering handpiece on the market for maintenance and heavy use. The PS-90 uses replaceable tips and is not cartridge based, but it does have a relatively high 90 watt heater, and is very capable and the tips are relatively inexpensive. You can add the TJ-70 ThermoJet SensaTemp handpiece to your set to do very fine hot air soldering and de-soldering. The TJ-70 has the finest hot air tip offered by any manufacturer. It is very useful in soldering 01005 SMD components using solder paste.
You can use the MBT 350 for lead-free soldering, you just need to minimize the handpiece on time. I use the MBT 350 for tin-lead prototype work. For lead-free I move to the ADS200.
Pace just came out with their MBT 360 three channel which uses a combination of AccuDrive (ADS200 style cartridges, two channels) and a single channel SensaTemp for the SX-100.
Interesting. I bought an ADS200 station more than a year ago. Since my work slowed with the pandemic it's still in the box. I love the build quality but I may sell it and get something different. Chinese T12 stations seem very economical. Tips are cheap. Also some Chinese stations which use JBC tips. Even some which have an SMPS power supply now. However, JBC clone stations and tips are expensive just because they're JBC compatible. Not sure I need that for thru hole and point to point wiring. Maybe a Unisolder project is in the future.
I've struggled a little with the T12 stations, primarily because I can't find one with a quality handpiece. The driving hardware is generally fine however.
@@sdgelectronics Seems there is no perfect solution. I thought the same thing about the generic T12 handpieces when searching. I suppose you could use a genuine Hakko handpiece but it's around $80-100 US for the plastic handle. When I'm working, I use the iron frequently and need reliability. And I do mostly repair work on vintage stuff and it's a bit rough on tips, prying parts out and such. So tip cost is important consideration for me. My old Weller has been pretty reliable but recovers slowly compared to today's best stations. How do you find the quality of the generic T12 tips? And the thermal performance? I know it's not as good as JBC or Pace. Metcal seems like the king of thermal performance but it's pricey.
Generic T12 tips were generally OK, but I also had a few that the station wouldn't detect. The metal handpiece I reviewed with the KSGER station feels OK, but recently it doesn't always make good contact with the tips. I didn't investigate too much though.
I've been using the metcal for a couple of weeks now. I really wish there's K/knife soldering tips.
Interested what you use them for? They're often bundled with some cheap systems, but I've always left them in the box.
@@sdgelectronics The K tip has a lengthy side which is good for removing SMD resistors and replacing them. There's also a sharp end so you can simply turn the handle around to reach hard to reach positions. I think it's a very versatile tip. I have been using them with JBC but they break quite easily. It also dumps much more heat then thinner tips. I also like the C210-028 tip a lot but those are even more fragile. So I have been using Chinese made K tips from relife for a while. They are almost as good in performance but at 1/5 of the price, also last longer.
@@sdgelectronics I like them for removing/installing dpak and similar packages. Its also one of my favorites for drag soldering.
@@johnyang799 I too like knife tips for many things. I see plenty of knife tips (for MX & CV anyway) I was just looking at them earlier on the metcal site. They are more expensive tho. Even have a 10 pack for sal
@@ecurepair Are STTC and SMTC compatible?
What is the purpose of the earth wire that goes to the front panel, is it connected to the tip via a resistor, or is it connected to the DC GND or just floating. Asking as I am making a ESP8266 based triac driven for T12 tip station (as there are not enough soldering stations in the world and my current station has buttons like this Pace and buttons suck so mine design has rotary encoder and display with Set Point and PV readings, pie in the sky stuff) and curios how it should be grounded.
The tip is directly connected to mains earth, no resistor. That seems to be fairly common on most soldering stations.
T12 tips are 24VDC max. Triac? Are you sure you know what you are doing?
@@Mr.Leeroy I would welcome any insights you may have. I have recently run tests and it seems to function well with fast heat up and reasonable stability. Just need some test pennies. I figured the tip is just a thermocouple in series with the heater and so should be ok to drive with 24VAC via a Triac. I hope to upload to hackaday once I have tested boards but would be keen to upload if anyone would like to critique the schematic and layout. ( I would pay for that as it would be a great targeted learning opportunity)
@@kissingfrogs Ok, for a second I though you were about to apply mains amounts of voltage to it. While it arguably does not matter for heater what are you going to use AC or DC, it still would be easier to use DC with mosfet for a couple of reasons. First, 24VAC is a bit low for average Diac to trigger your Triac, I'm not sure it is even doable. Secondly, power control feedback loop would be a lot easier with DC. So just use something like a readily-available Meanwell AC-DC 24V SMPS and build your controller from there. I would also advise against ESP8266 here, unless you are after some IoT soldering station (LOL). Pick any uC you like without wireless built-in, it would be easier. Something like BluePill is a good choice in terms of resources in case you want fancy display, menus, etc and in terms of ease of use even for a beginner (with STM32duino core).
@@Mr.Leeroy Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated. You are correct about 'bit low for average Diac to trigger' I encountered this issue when using a transformer to hand for testing with output that was less than 20VAC. It did not turn off. It proved to be quite a puzzle until the piclist pointed out my error and referred me back to the data sheet that states a min of 20VAC. I had considered the SMPS option but dismissed it in favour of the 'challenge' such as the requirement to ensure that the triac is off before sampling the TC voltage. The ESP8266 is used to provide an elaborate overkill web interface that allows me to tweak all the PID parameters as it graphs all the variable as they are computed. An earlier example of this web interface is my jerky drier hackaday.io/project/26235-easycook-jerky-dehydrator-hack. I feel like I have hijacked Steve's youtube video. Sorry Steve.
I see stone-age design comments. I'd ask, why are the buttons made of expensive burn-proof silicone rubber? Is it too pragmatic to imagine using a hot tip to press them while holding onto work piece(s) with the other hand?
Nichicon cap. Nice!
save your money. Stay with your Metcal MX5200 :-)
With that price point you can expect the label at the bottom be at least the right size, not hanging partly above the slit, badly printed. The inside of the front plate is scratched, flux residues on PCB. Granted none of those matter if the unit would at least function well.
Just not good quality assurance.
2p or not 2p, that is the question. In this case... not 2p.
Can you send it back?
Don't even like the case looks like a bad 1990 design. Thanks Steve, very valuable
I don't think Farnell take returns unless it's faulty, so probably not.
The think wath i like the most about the Pace is made of aluminium and have a intregrated holder for tips .
IPA worsk for me to clean out sticky tools
Nice ascetics, poor performance, could perform poorly over time. Not worth the high price. Thanks for sharing your review.
Anyone else scroll past the jl pcb advert?
Sorry these videos are expensive to make, so they're necessary.
@@sdgelectronics Don't be. Your current state of ad placement is very settle and appropriate
Thermaltronics 9000??
Mine behaves the same. Meh….
Not sure what you expected. That is the way of commoditized electronics. No one is putting in the RD and thought to make better stuff. The fact you would be willing to pay so much for something like this boggles my mind.
It's got such a popular reputation, so these videos are to help someone who is thinking about dropping their hard earned money on what might be the only premium solder station they ever buy.
No RD??? Did you not see the pretty aluminium chassis? 🤣
I remember being seduced by this station's rugged build and nice price, but then getting hit hard with stickershock when I saved up enough and was ready to commit to a purchase not long later.
Talk about heartbreak.
Pinecil please!!!
Yeah, nah.
You have a original Jbc station .
Yes, video coming up.
@@sdgelectronics I can wait
@@sdgelectronics wath model of soldering station ?
@@andreiciora2765 The DDE-2C. I'm putting off the compact series until the one with feedback is available.
@@sdgelectronics when i see the price of your new Jbc station my hart stoped to pulse .
Hadir
I don't understand why people buy this thing. You can spend $300 on this thing or $100 on a T3A, $200 on a T420 or $300 on a T420D. All of them having better soldering performance. Maybe someone can explain this to me.
I think this is way overrated.... I am really disappointed.
yep
The tips last longer and take serious abuse with thick plating and cost less. It's not a beauty pageant.
Not worth the money. Want decent quality, buy Hakko for a faction of its cost. Want ultimate performance buy JBC for a same price. Want to use in production environment, buy china stuff.