I have been saying it for 10 years now. Belt drive and gearbox is the future of mtb. The only reason there is still a resistance in the industry because a belt drive goes against their obsolescence and fast wearing drive train parts push. Not to meantion the love affair and ball licking of SRAM corporation. Belts last years and the gearboxes are bomb proof with on time oil changes. Plus, the new boxes have wider gear spread than 1x12s. The only change needed in the system is reguler leaver control vs. twist grip control. I hate twist grip.
The thing I don't get is that downhill is probably the least appropriate scenario for testing a drivetrain. As we know all too infamously, a downhill race can be won with no drivetrain at all. I would rather see it tested in the XC field, that would be the most realistic comparison against it's direct rivals.
I think the idea is marketing to say it stands up to anything and also on dh bikes there's no derailleur to hit on stuff so that's a win I bet they can say 0 failures at the end of the season and sell stuff.
I don't disagree, but the technology needs to start and be proven in an area where the weight and rotational losses have less of an impact and companies can justify the funding to create lighter and more efficient gearbox systems.
@@RatluBoogerbag the main benefits of gearboxes is that it gets the weight of the rear tire. The rear suspension performs much better. Downhill will see the most benefits.
Rob Metz, Zerode Engineer/Design has been doing the Pinion for so long, the Katapo is a super sweet stead, new version coming later this year. His new G3 DH rig is awesome but the new eBike looks next level.
Finally gearboxes are getting their time to shine. Pinions e shift finally ditched the awful grip shift so hopefully this leads to a shift towards gearboxes, as they’re perfect for dh with the low centered weight and less unsprung mass.
I mean it makes sense. Chains are a bit of a weak link of the DH bike, the slack and movement of a belt drive though could be an issue especially when not pedalling and in rock gardens & root sections. The only other major leap forward remaining is to eliminate punctures completely.
I probably comment this on every gearbox video. Gearboxes might not ever become the mainstream for trail and enduro, but I would put a LOT of money on it becoming the standard for Downhill. There are literally no disadvantages, and only performance gains.
I wish there’d be an end to the SRAM monopoly and all the mediocre brakes and drivetrain parts they put on all the bike companies they are in kahoots with. When you’re spending 4-12k on a new bike, you should have better options. SRAM isn’t terrible, but they are far from the best.
@Couffee the best two drive trains for the money in mtb are Shimano 1) SLX 2) plain Deore. I would run those over Scam GX and XO any day. Saving hundreds in the process, and have longer lasting drivetrain with minimal issues and constant adjustments and tune up's. The only thing Sram has going for them is Rockshox.
@@PeterCPRail8748 IMHO with Shimano drivetrains, XT is better than SLX for most users. XT is significantly more durable and only slightly heavier, with generally higher quality materials. I'm firmly of the opinion that Deore and XT are best for trail/enduro and SLX is best for XC on a budget since it's quite light and XTR is XC where cost is no object.
@mrvwbug4423 for the money SLX and deore is the best. I agree that for the extra cash XT is better. I have used an SLX 1x11 drive train for the past 9 years on my Trail bike with no issues. Still on the same cable. The original cassette lasted 6 years. I traded it in that bike for my new bike over the holidays. But I wouldn't be surprised that the new SLX group sets today is made of shitty materials to keep weight more competitive. Thus, wear out alot faster than my 2015 group set. My new bike runs a microshift 1x10 which I have to say is very impressive for the retail price point, it came factory on my kona. I am at an age where a 1x10 or 1x11 Deore is good enough for me. Don't need fancy materials and finishes or weight savings. That's what I will eventually replace the Microshift when it goes. From my understanding, Microshift was started by US Shimano engineers, and they use the same quality feel crisp shifting philosophy of Shimano. So far, I am really impressed despite the weight penalty.
@@MrDefiant17 your opinion, every bike mechanic or shop owner i know and ride with ride shimano drivetrains and brakes. Sram is king of the industry because manufacturers get better pricing in bulk thus getting better margin per unit. . Shimano stands by there quality and price and dosnt lower themselves to flood the industry with subpar crap for the price point.
Atherton should call their bike the GB758 (Gearbox, 7 for the combined overall titles and 58 for the combined total World Cup wins for Rachel and Gee) also GB = 🇬🇧
Now we need more frames that can accommodate gearboxes and the price of the gearboxes needs to come down. Their 12 speed gearboxes are $1800-2100 USD, the 9 speed is $1500USD
Exactly. Thats how I build every wheel for my customers with a Pinion gearbox. Problem is, you can only get a handful good SS hubs, though, its slowly picking up again after a few years of basically only cheap stuff on the market.
Everyone talking about how these belts are the "new" innovation that their company is pioneering, when in fact Zerode has had belts and gearboxes for years and years😂
Weight isn't a big factor for DH sometimes more weight even helps a DH bike to perform better. Every mountainbike performs better with the weight being removed from the back wheel and put in the center of the bike. The efficency penalty is around 7 % i think. I believe that's what i've read somewhere. Which isn't extreme in any way. Also doesn't hinder the performance of DH bikes that much since you ride down the hill. So i think that this system would work for the vast majority of mountainbikes. Maybe not XC. And maybe not for racing street bikes. Weight and efficency sure are a bigger talking point there. Benefits are: - mass in the center of the bike - less mass at the back wheel - drastically more durable - stronger than chains - quiet - cleaner than chains - less maintenance I think the upfront cost of belt driven systems could be higher than what we have now. But given that you don't have to change out the belt as often alongside the cogs, the higher price will balance out and will be cheaper in the long run. I'm really excited for this development! Been working on my own design in CAD and been dreaming of building my own high pivot belt driven DH bike. Really hope these things take off so i can get myself one.
yes it heavier but the weight is on the right and best spot (bottom bracket) and not all over the bike.. if you watch closely on UCI DH they put weights on the BB..
Nice shiny new thing for consumption. Not much pedaling in gravity riding tho, so not sure what problem belt solves. Bike industry is tanking for lack of innovation, another design adopted from motorcycles wont change things.
So Reece says the biggest benefit is wheel weight. But, that’s nothing to do with a belt, it’s the gearbox. Then Dan Brown reiterates. Great advert for Gates 😂
Its not exactly nothing for starters. Belt is lighter. But the real reason for them to respond that way is, the gearbox is the natural solution for them and if I'm not mistaken, you can no longer get a Pinion gearbox for a chain - that was phased out many years ago. So, a gearbox means using a belt drive and since this is about a 100k price for the first winner on a Gates belt, its the belt that is mentioned first. Also, Pinion and Gates are in close cooperation.
People have been trying for years to have less weight on the rear axle and more on the bottom bracket. Its part of the reason ebikes feel so planted, and why many dh teams have been strapping weights to their frames. Removing the rear mech and cassette makes the rear axle much lighter, making the rear wheel far more plush on the trail. Link of it a bit like a lever, the more weight on the other end the more difficult it will be to pull
@BenRitchie A belt drive can use a bigger, more sturdy chain - think of a chunky bmx chain or single speed. If it doesn't have to dance up and down a multi speed cassette out back, instead just the one big drive sprocket. Just a thought, not an engineer here! Happy with my current Shimano 12s but I do need to replace the chain and cassette by this point for the springtime!
for me its about not lubing my ebike. I have to suspend the rear somehow and its such pain in the ass when i just want to go. First world problem at the end of the day, but with the price of bikes, it should have been done already.
2 часа назад
"Lasts 4 times longer than a chain" Was that chain lubed with a traditional chain lube, or was it some properly lubricated or even waxed chain?
I ride a single speed belt mountainbike. Dont believe everything gates tell you. Its not suited for high torque dirty environments, it will wear down pretty fast. Its perfect for downhill. But saying its great for mtb is a bridge to far for me.
@@ollialanko699 I'm maybe 2000k in and has gotten impossible to ride up steep bits without the belt skipping and falling off. And yes I do tension by belt for every ride now, otherwise a sprint will be enough to drop the belt. You might get better results if you use bigger cogs front and rear. But its pretty disappointing for a solution that is marketed as really hard to wear out and be maintenance free. On top of that its almost 10 times as expensive as a single speed chain setup.
I've built tons of wheels for customers with Pinion gearbox bikes since as early as 2016 and most of them with belt by now and every time I asked exactly that question when I reached out for feedback on my wheels, because I was curiois and everyone said there are zero issues with shedding mud, debris and durability.
Chain drive trains are the worst thing about any bike,always need cleaning,always have to be careful changing gear,always bending,pure shite let's be honest
Belt drives are another overhyped money pit pushed by the cycling industry. Sure, they sound great on paper. Low maintenance, no grease, and supposed longevity, but in reality they’re just a way to overcomplicate and overcharge. The replacement costs are absurd, the limited compatibility locks you into niche frames and drivetrains, and any ‘efficiency’ gains are negligible for the average rider.
Has any one seen the trails in fort mac on trailfork ,,see the city mentally ill stuff .can anybody that rode a bike before talk to them for the love of GOD...be nice see next few dollors spend better.
upside down fork and gearbox for dh bike? my dream is becoming true
Mountain biking enters the 21st century at last
same
I have been saying it for 10 years now. Belt drive and gearbox is the future of mtb. The only reason there is still a resistance in the industry because a belt drive goes against their obsolescence and fast wearing drive train parts push. Not to meantion the love affair and ball licking of SRAM corporation.
Belts last years and the gearboxes are bomb proof with on time oil changes. Plus, the new boxes have wider gear spread than 1x12s.
The only change needed in the system is reguler leaver control vs. twist grip control. I hate twist grip.
There’s a wireless trigger shifter option since a few years, check out Pinion’s Smart Shift😉
The thing I don't get is that downhill is probably the least appropriate scenario for testing a drivetrain. As we know all too infamously, a downhill race can be won with no drivetrain at all. I would rather see it tested in the XC field, that would be the most realistic comparison against it's direct rivals.
I think the idea is marketing to say it stands up to anything and also on dh bikes there's no derailleur to hit on stuff so that's a win I bet they can say 0 failures at the end of the season and sell stuff.
Was just thinking this too. Surely winning a xc or enduro race would prove their point of parity much more.
If you ride in garbage weather gearboxes are a no brainer. You can't get a bike with one in most places :)
I don't disagree, but the technology needs to start and be proven in an area where the weight and rotational losses have less of an impact and companies can justify the funding to create lighter and more efficient gearbox systems.
@@RatluBoogerbag the main benefits of gearboxes is that it gets the weight of the rear tire. The rear suspension performs much better. Downhill will see the most benefits.
Rob Metz, Zerode Engineer/Design has been doing the Pinion for so long, the Katapo is a super sweet stead, new version coming later this year. His new G3 DH rig is awesome but the new eBike looks next level.
Finally gearboxes are getting their time to shine. Pinions e shift finally ditched the awful grip shift so hopefully this leads to a shift towards gearboxes, as they’re perfect for dh with the low centered weight and less unsprung mass.
I mean it makes sense. Chains are a bit of a weak link of the DH bike, the slack and movement of a belt drive though could be an issue especially when not pedalling and in rock gardens & root sections. The only other major leap forward remaining is to eliminate punctures completely.
Chris is the guy who helped the brand Niner Bikes be one of the first all 29er brands.
I probably comment this on every gearbox video.
Gearboxes might not ever become the mainstream for trail and enduro, but I would put a LOT of money on it becoming the standard for Downhill. There are literally no disadvantages, and only performance gains.
I wish there’d be an end to the SRAM monopoly and all the mediocre brakes and drivetrain parts they put on all the bike companies they are in kahoots with. When you’re spending 4-12k on a new bike, you should have better options. SRAM isn’t terrible, but they are far from the best.
@Couffee the best two drive trains for the money in mtb are Shimano 1) SLX 2) plain Deore. I would run those over Scam GX and XO any day. Saving hundreds in the process, and have longer lasting drivetrain with minimal issues and constant adjustments and tune up's.
The only thing Sram has going for them is Rockshox.
@@PeterCPRail8748 IMHO with Shimano drivetrains, XT is better than SLX for most users. XT is significantly more durable and only slightly heavier, with generally higher quality materials. I'm firmly of the opinion that Deore and XT are best for trail/enduro and SLX is best for XC on a budget since it's quite light and XTR is XC where cost is no object.
@@PeterCPRail8748 simano drivetrains are trash, sram gx, x01 and up is what we need to be on all bikes
@mrvwbug4423 for the money SLX and deore is the best. I agree that for the extra cash XT is better. I have used an SLX 1x11 drive train for the past 9 years on my Trail bike with no issues. Still on the same cable. The original cassette lasted 6 years. I traded it in that bike for my new bike over the holidays. But I wouldn't be surprised that the new SLX group sets today is made of shitty materials to keep weight more competitive. Thus, wear out alot faster than my 2015 group set.
My new bike runs a microshift 1x10 which I have to say is very impressive for the retail price point, it came factory on my kona. I am at an age where a 1x10 or 1x11 Deore is good enough for me. Don't need fancy materials and finishes or weight savings. That's what I will eventually replace the Microshift when it goes. From my understanding, Microshift was started by US Shimano engineers, and they use the same quality feel crisp shifting philosophy of Shimano. So far, I am really impressed despite the weight penalty.
@@MrDefiant17 your opinion, every bike mechanic or shop owner i know and ride with ride shimano drivetrains and brakes. Sram is king of the industry because manufacturers get better pricing in bulk thus getting better margin per unit. . Shimano stands by there quality and price and dosnt lower themselves to flood the industry with subpar crap for the price point.
Atherton should call their bike the GB758 (Gearbox, 7 for the combined overall titles and 58 for the combined total World Cup wins for Rachel and Gee) also GB = 🇬🇧
Reece, king of mullets🤟🏻
A better question is why they aren't using more weight near the bottom bracket to achieve greater stability, like on e-bikes.
Intresting topic 😮
Would be nice to get a good look at duch a bike and not just flashy b roll
Now we need more frames that can accommodate gearboxes and the price of the gearboxes needs to come down. Their 12 speed gearboxes are $1800-2100 USD, the 9 speed is $1500USD
8:26 why not singlespeed hub ? wider-set flanges - stiffer wheel .....
Exactly. Thats how I build every wheel for my customers with a Pinion gearbox. Problem is, you can only get a handful good SS hubs, though, its slowly picking up again after a few years of basically only cheap stuff on the market.
Everyone talking about how these belts are the "new" innovation that their company is pioneering, when in fact Zerode has had belts and gearboxes for years and years😂
What happens to the prize money if a male and female racer win with a belt on the same day?
Is it overall heavier and less efficient though? All I got from this is mass centralization as a benefit.
Weight isn't a big factor for DH sometimes more weight even helps a DH bike to perform better. Every mountainbike performs better with the weight being removed from the back wheel and put in the center of the bike. The efficency penalty is around 7 % i think. I believe that's what i've read somewhere. Which isn't extreme in any way. Also doesn't hinder the performance of DH bikes that much since you ride down the hill. So i think that this system would work for the vast majority of mountainbikes. Maybe not XC. And maybe not for racing street bikes. Weight and efficency sure are a bigger talking point there.
Benefits are:
- mass in the center of the bike
- less mass at the back wheel
- drastically more durable
- stronger than chains
- quiet
- cleaner than chains
- less maintenance
I think the upfront cost of belt driven systems could be higher than what we have now. But given that you don't have to change out the belt as often alongside the cogs, the higher price will balance out and will be cheaper in the long run.
I'm really excited for this development! Been working on my own design in CAD and been dreaming of building my own high pivot belt driven DH bike. Really hope these things take off so i can get myself one.
You’re missing the point
yes it heavier but the weight is on the right and best spot (bottom bracket) and not all over the bike.. if you watch closely on UCI DH they put weights on the BB..
Whoooosh
It lasts longer, try singlespeed and then you will see suspension benefits.
charly hatton or reece wilson go for the 100k-RACE ON
Its the rider who wins the race not so much the bike. I wonder how well the belt will deal with muddy conditions.
No issues. Anna Newkirk was doing just fine last season on a belter.
WELL it may bush SHIMANO and others to develop THEIR OWN
Nice shiny new thing for consumption. Not much pedaling in gravity riding tho, so not sure what problem belt solves. Bike industry is tanking for lack of innovation, another design adopted from motorcycles wont change things.
Hey guys, I’m not interested in the drivetrain of a DOWNHILL bike. What could possibly be less relevant?
My next bike will be a gearbox enduro-geometry eBike - hopefully a single unit (motor & gearbox like on a motorbike).
Dh es un deporte elitista que bien que quieran hacer productos mas baratos
Pues una caja de cambios es bastante más cara que un casette y un cambio tradicionales
@marius655 por ahora!! No ves las ventajas a futuro
So Reece says the biggest benefit is wheel weight. But, that’s nothing to do with a belt, it’s the gearbox. Then Dan Brown reiterates. Great advert for Gates 😂
Its not exactly nothing for starters. Belt is lighter. But the real reason for them to respond that way is, the gearbox is the natural solution for them and if I'm not mistaken, you can no longer get a Pinion gearbox for a chain - that was phased out many years ago. So, a gearbox means using a belt drive and since this is about a 100k price for the first winner on a Gates belt, its the belt that is mentioned first.
Also, Pinion and Gates are in close cooperation.
People have been trying for years to have less weight on the rear axle and more on the bottom bracket. Its part of the reason ebikes feel so planted, and why many dh teams have been strapping weights to their frames. Removing the rear mech and cassette makes the rear axle much lighter, making the rear wheel far more plush on the trail. Link of it a bit like a lever, the more weight on the other end the more difficult it will be to pull
why do you even need gears on a DH bike? can't we just race on steeper and gnarlier tracks?
So they can sell more bikes
It isn't about the belt. It's about the gearbox. The same benefits would be seen with a gearbox and chain.
Yeah! Gearbox wouldn't need a skinny 12S chain! ...look at Moto
Seen chains snapping on rides fairly regularly
@BenRitchie A belt drive can use a bigger, more sturdy chain - think of a chunky bmx chain or single speed. If it doesn't have to dance up and down a multi speed cassette out back, instead just the one big drive sprocket.
Just a thought, not an engineer here! Happy with my current Shimano 12s but I do need to replace the chain and cassette by this point for the springtime!
@@chris4536 I’m responding to the OPs statement
for me its about not lubing my ebike. I have to suspend the rear somehow and its such pain in the ass when i just want to go. First world problem at the end of the day, but with the price of bikes, it should have been done already.
"Lasts 4 times longer than a chain"
Was that chain lubed with a traditional chain lube, or was it some properly lubricated or even waxed chain?
Given the limited brands running it, looks like only Kolb has a realistic chance of bringing home the win.
Rachel Atherton?
@ could be. I wasn’t thinking of the ladies.
Did I miss that YT has a gearbox rig cooking... or did you not know Kolb left Atherton?
Motorcycle riders are like...what's the big deal :/
I ride a single speed belt mountainbike. Dont believe everything gates tell you. Its not suited for high torque dirty environments, it will wear down pretty fast. Its perfect for downhill. But saying its great for mtb is a bridge to far for me.
Interesting. Is it mtb? How many km can you run a belt on the ss until it's worn out?
@@ollialanko699 I'm maybe 2000k in and has gotten impossible to ride up steep bits without the belt skipping and falling off. And yes I do tension by belt for every ride now, otherwise a sprint will be enough to drop the belt. You might get better results if you use bigger cogs front and rear. But its pretty disappointing for a solution that is marketed as really hard to wear out and be maintenance free. On top of that its almost 10 times as expensive as a single speed chain setup.
I've built tons of wheels for customers with Pinion gearbox bikes since as early as 2016 and most of them with belt by now and every time I asked exactly that question when I reached out for feedback on my wheels, because I was curiois and everyone said there are zero issues with shedding mud, debris and durability.
Chain drive trains are the worst thing about any bike,always need cleaning,always have to be careful changing gear,always bending,pure shite let's be honest
I'll burn in hell before I buy a belt drive bike
why?
You clearly have a headstart.
Belt drives are another overhyped money pit pushed by the cycling industry. Sure, they sound great on paper. Low maintenance, no grease, and supposed longevity, but in reality they’re just a way to overcomplicate and overcharge. The replacement costs are absurd, the limited compatibility locks you into niche frames and drivetrains, and any ‘efficiency’ gains are negligible for the average rider.
@athertonbikes Get Rach on that bike and snap up the €100
Has any one seen the trails in fort mac on trailfork ,,see the city mentally ill stuff .can anybody that rode a bike before talk to them for the love of GOD...be nice see next few dollors spend better.