This may seem twisted to some, but the Anabaptist faith, not merely the Mennonites, but the faith itself inspires me whereas many other denominations causes me to question what I'd rather not. I have read the Anabaptist Vision and have a great respect for Harold Bender, for his generation and for his vision for the Anabaptist Vision. Written and published at a time when the world was in turmoil it gave millions the strength and motivation to hold on to their faith, their courage and their hopes. Then at Harold's passing in 1962 the nation was once again witnessing another turmoil. This time it was a social and moral decay that would have lasting consequences to this day. Once again the Anabaptist Vision gave all who would listen the strength and motivation to not let this moral decay and rebellion to discourage them. Nor to be influenced by it. It was Harold Bender's generation who tried to warn teenagers and young adults of the 1960s of their mistakes and the consequences the nation was going to have to deal with later because of their rebellion. I remember Harold Bender's generation and it's very unfortunate that so many of today's generation believes Bender's generation were ignorant. That too is having its consequences and the evidence is clearly obvious. The old indeed knows more about being young than the young knows about being old. I was raised in a very conservative or strict full gospel Church and feel fortunate that I was. I will never regret it. Nevertheless, I have never found it written within the scriptures that one must speak in tongues in order to prove that he or she has been baptized by the Holy Spirit or as evidence of being a born again Christian. I believe this is another reason that inspires me about the Anabaptist faith. The Anabaptist faith itself is, in a sense, a literal full holiness conservative faith that does not require one to speak in tongues. When observing and comparing the people and society of Harold Bender's generation to that of my own generation and of today's, I sincerely believe the best hope for today's society and generation is the discipline and faith that is upheld by the Anabaptist faith. Not solely the Mennonites, but the Anabaptist faith itself. I believe too many from both within and without the Anabaptist faith falsely believe the only way one can be of the Anabaptist faith is to either be a Mennonite or Amish or to be direct descendants of the sixteenth century Anabaptist reformers. I simply cannot see the Anabaptist Vision flourishing with that mindset. No offense intended nor directed. This episode is about the Anabaptist faith and Vision, not solely the Church. So how can the Anabaptist Vision flourish? To help the Anabaptist faith itself to flourish. Not by seeing and taking advantage of the financial opportunities one sees from the interest and fascination that outsiders have of the Mennonites which will always have a dark and negative impact on both the Church and the faith itself. A lot of damage to the reputation of the faith as well as to the Church has been caused by such practices. If an interested outsider wants to tithe to an Anabaptist Church, even if he or she is only trying to buy friendship and doesn't quite realize it yet, then fine, accept their tithing in good Christian faith. But don't try to convince the person to sell their home and property and give the money to the Church. There is always a dark stigma of hypocrisy associated with such practices. In some instances such stigma is irreversible. The damage have already done too much for too long. These practices can never be justified. The Anabaptist Vision can only flourish by helping the Anabaptist faith itself to flourish. Without the faith there would not be a Church. Therefore the faith itself is more important than the Church alone. A Church can, in whole, go astray and begin thinking about what is best solely for the Church alone and therefore causing the Church and faith to be separated from one another. A house divided against itself cannot stand. The Anabaptist faith itself will always be divine if it is put first ahead of the Church. I thank the Anabaptist Perspectives for spreading the Anabaptist faith. Its conservative discipline, values, principles and priorities. EDIT: If I came across as being critical of the Mennonite Church then I give you my apologies for that was not my intention.
This is one of the best episodes I've listened to. There's so much to unpack here--I know I'll have to give it a couple more listens! I'm having a hard time articulating it, but I do think there's truth to the principle that Anabaptists who neglect to preserve and pass down their history are destined to lose their identity, and eventually their theology. Of course, it's not our cultural/ethnic/last name identities that have spiritual value (although that heritage is OK to preserve), but mainly our theological heritage. If we want to be committed to our Anabaptist theology, then we HAVE to do a better job of preserving our history and identity. These things go hand-in-hand for Anabaptists. Anabaptist churches are inherently separate from the world; there is no such thing as a "worldly" Anabaptist church. Therefore their cultural identity is inextricably tied to their theological identity. I think there are good examples of Anabaptist churches that have tried being a "worldly" church, and we can observe they eventually lose their theological identity, or die, or both. True that a lot of this rests on young people now. Older generations no longer can maintain the identity of the Anabaptist churches, it is time for young people to step up. We'll see how this plays out, but I think most Anabaptist churches that are not of the conservative flavor are going to see a fairly broad extinction. As someone who was born in a community that hinged right on the borderline between conservative and "liberal", most of the parents in our families did not instill a lot of respect or interest in Anabaptist identity in my generation's kids. As a result we are seeing very little young people remain in our church community---most have interest in newer evangelical, non-denominational Christianity, or flat-out secularism. So we'll have to see how the new generations pick up this identity across the board. Finally, your conversation about plautdietsch is interesting. It might not be a direct correlation, but definitely there is some truth to the saying "losing plautdietsch means losing your distinctiveness as a people." My great grandparents were the last people in my family to know PA dutch, and I would say with each successive generation there is a tinge more worldiness in our lifestyle, to the point where some of my siblings no longer consider themselves Anabaptist. Language isn't the only part of our identity and what constitutes the border between Anabaptism and the world, but it is a piece of it. Every piece that we lose makes it easier to lose the next one. These things are incredibly hard to bring back, as well. It would take a great deal of effort for a church to come to a place where they would re-learn PA dutch. But I'd also say there are some very practical things Anabaptist churches can do to emphasize their identity, history and retain those things well.
Thank you for sharing this. You connected Chester's message to the experience of you and your church, but I suspect that similar scenerios are quite common.
It's a very difficult cultural adjustment to join a conservative Anabaptist group. I urge people to read sociological books about plain groups from college libraries to understand how people think. Sometimes old German culture rears its head in strange ways, and they don't even recognize it. German culture likes to have precise thorough rules and clear boundaries. For example at the time of Anabaptist immigration, there were dress codes about what each age group and class wore. Thus, in some groups married men grow a beard or married women wear a different covering. Conservative groups have fewer outward distinctions, but they still want to be precise. For example, one group has a rule that printed cloth can't have flowers larger than a quarter or that the skirt must have a width (gathered) twice as wide as the waist. Many cultural differences will make sense if you understand how uniformity may decrease rivalry and envy by minimizing differences, such as no conspicuous consumption. If you find a good group, it's worth undergoing many life changes, but not naively. Listen to your intuition if something doesn't seem right, but don't mix up your preferences. Always ask the Holy Spirit to lead you.
This may seem twisted to some, but the Anabaptist faith, not merely the Mennonites, but the faith itself inspires me whereas many other denominations causes me to question what I'd rather not. I have read the Anabaptist Vision and have a great respect for Harold Bender, for his generation and for his vision for the Anabaptist Vision. Written and published at a time when the world was in turmoil it gave millions the strength and motivation to hold on to their faith, their courage and their hopes. Then at Harold's passing in 1962 the nation was once again witnessing another turmoil. This time it was a social and moral decay that would have lasting consequences to this day. Once again the Anabaptist Vision gave all who would listen the strength and motivation to not let this moral decay and rebellion to discourage them. Nor to be influenced by it. It was Harold Bender's generation who tried to warn teenagers and young adults of the 1960s of their mistakes and the consequences the nation was going to have to deal with later because of their rebellion. I remember Harold Bender's generation and it's very unfortunate that so many of today's generation believes Bender's generation were ignorant. That too is having its consequences and the evidence is clearly obvious. The old indeed knows more about being young than the young knows about being old.
I was raised in a very conservative or strict full gospel Church and feel fortunate that I was. I will never regret it. Nevertheless, I have never found it written within the scriptures that one must speak in tongues in order to prove that he or she has been baptized by the Holy Spirit or as evidence of being a born again Christian. I believe this is another reason that inspires me about the Anabaptist faith. The Anabaptist faith itself is, in a sense, a literal full holiness conservative faith that does not require one to speak in tongues.
When observing and comparing the people and society of Harold Bender's generation to that of my own generation and of today's, I sincerely believe the best hope for today's society and generation is the discipline and faith that is upheld by the Anabaptist faith. Not solely the Mennonites, but the Anabaptist faith itself. I believe too many from both within and without the Anabaptist faith falsely believe the only way one can be of the Anabaptist faith is to either be a Mennonite or Amish or to be direct descendants of the sixteenth century Anabaptist reformers. I simply cannot see the Anabaptist Vision flourishing with that mindset. No offense intended nor directed. This episode is about the Anabaptist faith and Vision, not solely the Church.
So how can the Anabaptist Vision flourish? To help the Anabaptist faith itself to flourish. Not by seeing and taking advantage of the financial opportunities one sees from the interest and fascination that outsiders have of the Mennonites which will always have a dark and negative impact on both the Church and the faith itself. A lot of damage to the reputation of the faith as well as to the Church has been caused by such practices. If an interested outsider wants to tithe to an Anabaptist Church, even if he or she is only trying to buy friendship and doesn't quite realize it yet, then fine, accept their tithing in good Christian faith. But don't try to convince the person to sell their home and property and give the money to the Church. There is always a dark stigma of hypocrisy associated with such practices. In some instances such stigma is irreversible. The damage have already done too much for too long. These practices can never be justified. The Anabaptist Vision can only flourish by helping the Anabaptist faith itself to flourish. Without the faith there would not be a Church. Therefore the faith itself is more important than the Church alone. A Church can, in whole, go astray and begin thinking about what is best solely for the Church alone and therefore causing the Church and faith to be separated from one another. A house divided against itself cannot stand. The Anabaptist faith itself will always be divine if it is put first ahead of the Church. I thank the Anabaptist Perspectives for spreading the Anabaptist faith. Its conservative discipline, values, principles and priorities.
EDIT: If I came across as being critical of the Mennonite Church then I give you my apologies for that was not my intention.
It was too short. I could listen to brother Chester for much longer...
Thank you for the feedback. Did you listen to the previous pieces of this series? anabaptistperspectives.org/people/chester-weaver/
Great episode!!
We're glad that you liked it!
This is one of the best episodes I've listened to. There's so much to unpack here--I know I'll have to give it a couple more listens!
I'm having a hard time articulating it, but I do think there's truth to the principle that Anabaptists who neglect to preserve and pass down their history are destined to lose their identity, and eventually their theology. Of course, it's not our cultural/ethnic/last name identities that have spiritual value (although that heritage is OK to preserve), but mainly our theological heritage. If we want to be committed to our Anabaptist theology, then we HAVE to do a better job of preserving our history and identity. These things go hand-in-hand for Anabaptists. Anabaptist churches are inherently separate from the world; there is no such thing as a "worldly" Anabaptist church. Therefore their cultural identity is inextricably tied to their theological identity. I think there are good examples of Anabaptist churches that have tried being a "worldly" church, and we can observe they eventually lose their theological identity, or die, or both.
True that a lot of this rests on young people now. Older generations no longer can maintain the identity of the Anabaptist churches, it is time for young people to step up. We'll see how this plays out, but I think most Anabaptist churches that are not of the conservative flavor are going to see a fairly broad extinction. As someone who was born in a community that hinged right on the borderline between conservative and "liberal", most of the parents in our families did not instill a lot of respect or interest in Anabaptist identity in my generation's kids. As a result we are seeing very little young people remain in our church community---most have interest in newer evangelical, non-denominational Christianity, or flat-out secularism. So we'll have to see how the new generations pick up this identity across the board.
Finally, your conversation about plautdietsch is interesting. It might not be a direct correlation, but definitely there is some truth to the saying "losing plautdietsch means losing your distinctiveness as a people." My great grandparents were the last people in my family to know PA dutch, and I would say with each successive generation there is a tinge more worldiness in our lifestyle, to the point where some of my siblings no longer consider themselves Anabaptist. Language isn't the only part of our identity and what constitutes the border between Anabaptism and the world, but it is a piece of it. Every piece that we lose makes it easier to lose the next one. These things are incredibly hard to bring back, as well. It would take a great deal of effort for a church to come to a place where they would re-learn PA dutch. But I'd also say there are some very practical things Anabaptist churches can do to emphasize their identity, history and retain those things well.
Thank you for sharing this. You connected Chester's message to the experience of you and your church, but I suspect that similar scenerios are quite common.
Absolutely amazing podcast! Is it possible to share the presentation in the video description?
Good question. We're looking into it.
Yes. Here it is: anabaptistperspectives.org/wp-content/uploads/Chester-Weaver-Anabaptist-Theology.pdf
Are your recommended books available from Scroll Publishing?
Not sure. It would be worth searching scrollpublishing.com/ to check.
Very well said
Thank you, David.
It's a very difficult cultural adjustment to join a conservative Anabaptist group. I urge people to read sociological books about plain groups from college libraries to understand how people think. Sometimes old German culture rears its head in strange ways, and they don't even recognize it. German culture likes to have precise thorough rules and clear boundaries. For example at the time of Anabaptist immigration, there were dress codes about what each age group and class wore. Thus, in some groups married men grow a beard or married women wear a different covering. Conservative groups have fewer outward distinctions, but they still want to be precise. For example, one group has a rule that printed cloth can't have flowers larger than a quarter or that the skirt must have a width (gathered) twice as wide as the waist. Many cultural differences will make sense if you understand how uniformity may decrease rivalry and envy by minimizing differences, such as no conspicuous consumption. If you find a good group, it's worth undergoing many life changes, but not naively. Listen to your intuition if something doesn't seem right, but don't mix up your preferences. Always ask the Holy Spirit to lead you.
Thank you for this input, Barbara. We affirm what you say, especially your encouragement to ask the Holy Spirit for guidance.