As far as I know, most professionals let it rest and proof a bit more(an hour let’s say) once it’s been put in the banneton, before it goes in the fridge. So doing both a rest and proof before and after the fridge for an hour might be ideal. I’ll try this on my next loaf.
It all depends on your level of fermentation. Leave it out after shaping if you need it to puff up a little more, otherwise, it's straight to the fridge for a retard after shaping.
@@nancypahl7755 yeah for sure. Earlier this year, when I was a bit more of a novice baker and/or it was colder in winter/spring time, my fermentation was lacking compared to now in the summer and I’m finding I have to get it in the fridge pretty quick to limit the continued rise. Lately I’ve been opening the fridge the next day and finding overly puffy dough. Its frustrating because I’ll be begging for these levels of fermentation in a few months when the temps have plummeted. 🥶🥵
I always thought if you're dealing with cold dough, you leave it out in the banneton before the fridge for an hour. If your dough is warm, no need to leave it out before going in the fridge. This is because it takes upwards of 5 hours for the dough to drop a mere 5 degrees, meaning it will proof some more in the fridge before the temp drops down low enough to slow it down.
I had better result with the dough going directly from the fridge to the oven (0.5 hour room temp proofing before fridge) , but it may depend on the recipe, so I guess one has to try both to decide what works best for their setup.
@8:00, yeah, that’s what I do but you have to gauge it because when you place it in the fridge, it keeps proofing until it reaches the fridge temperature. There is some amount of time before the dough cools down to 34F or whatever your fridge temp is set to. My last four loaves overproofed so I need to cut down the initial bulk fermentation or proof shorter time in the banneton.
Good video! I normally put the dough in the banneton and let it rise 60-90 minutes before putting in the refrigerator. Then go straight from the frig into the oven. Seems to work pretty well.
I will be the contrary, I believe the cold dough was the most beautiful loaf, they are both great but the final shape of the cold loaf looks better to me
Thanks for doing this. I always wondered whether or not I was doing it right. My dough is sometimes stickier and tough to work with so yesterday I refrigerated it before I put it in the banneton. Much easier to work with and score. I was going to let it get to room temp first by but now I think I’ll just preheat the Dutch oven and let it fly cold. Wish me luck. Knowing you didn’t experience a disaster gives me comfort that all will be alright in the end.
Another possibility is that the dough was slightly under-fermented when you shaped the loaves. The loaf that came up to room temperature had an extra long fermentation. So the solution may be to allow your dough to ferment longer, shape the dough into loaves, cold proof, and then bake straight out of the refrigerator.
@@GrantBakes I find it challenging to tell when a dough is optimally fermented. After dozens (maybe hundreds) of trials, I realized I was waiting too long. So I cut back from 50 - 100% growth to 20 - 30% growth. The new timing has been working better. But today, I accidentally allowed my dough to double. So I stuck the shaped loaf in the freezer for nearly two hours in an effort to quickly slow fermentation. Then I placed the loaf in the fridge, where it will stay until tomorrow. I'll know by noon tomorrow whether my "fix" worked!
@@alancantor9437 Let us know how that works, please. Also, what is your freezer temperature? I've put my banneton into the freezer for an hour but I would think it might freeze within 2 hours!
Nearly two hours in the freezer didn't cause my loaf to freeze. Not sure of the temperature, but it's cold in there! The bread came out nicely! Going forward, I'm going to allow my dough to ferment longer than usual, freeze the dough for an hour or two to quickly slow fermentation, and then refrigerate.
I agree with this, the dough left out to come to room temp actually had a longer bulk, in a sense. That's what I got from this - extend your bulk, it's going into the frig too soon for the cold retard.
Thank you ! I knew extend cold ferment time developed more flavor and that a cold surface scores easier SOO this way of doing the last proof (including your idea to wait ~ 1 hr. before fridging) should work great . Thanx again !!
Great video Grant. I usually have 2 options. If the weather is cooler then I bring the fridge dough out around about midnight before bedtime. Then it gets around 8-9 hours before it goes into the oven. The other way is if it’s warmer then I take it out about 6am. Also give it around 8 hours depending on the dough before putting in the oven.
@Elizabeth-dg8dn Mainly down to weather temps. Anything below about 15 degrees C I can allow my dough to proof outside. But this is a method specifically tailored to my dough characteristics. There are many variables affecting a result, yours will be different
Fabulous video. Glad I went trolling and found you! Put my dough in the fridge last night as I started it way too late in the day to finish it by the evening. Have done this in the past and have always wondered “ take it out and warm or not” and “ so exactly how long do I warm it?” Yay, love your answers here. It’s all ok! For me bread is like art, but baking can be improved with science soooo combine it. Oven warming now. Cold bread on the counter. Thank you for this video. Excellent presentation!!! 🎉
I'm glad I saw this vid. I have actually been thinking about trying the very work around you discuss at the end. Leting it proof for a while then put in fridge and cook cold. The reason being that I had noticed if I need to do my bread in one day, just letting it proof out then baking I would get that bigger looking loaf with nice crumb but I liked handling the cold fridge proofed bread better, so i had been thinking I would try it. Have you done so yet? I am going to the next loaf, proof for a couple hours or so out then put it in the fridge then bake in am. Again thanks for posting about these variations and experiments.
Interesting, I've just been discussing this with my wife. I leave it on the counter for around an hour before baking. Also I stretch my initial loaf shape out as long as possible for enable easier slicing, thanks.
I baked a loaf this morning, before I put it in the fridge I let it sit in my banneton at room temp for 2 hours. Got a very nice oven spring, more so than going directly into the fridge. Total proofing time was about 6 hours
That has worked well for me too; after watching the Claire Saffitz video I tried her simple method of shaping and also the proofing for 1 - 1,5 hrs of proofing in the bannetons at room temperature before putting it into the fridge. Perfect ovenspring and ear, nice pattern from the banneton as well. Thanks for your videos Grant, they are nice and instructive. Learned a lot from you already.
Finally something I have tried and now don’t feel so silly. Nice to know others experiment. Thanks for this. Heat in gou the oven now. Cold bread on the counter to warm.
You're right, proofing at room temp before cold proofing yields the best result (at least for my recipe). Then bake from cold. I cold proof in my basement fridge, which is set a bit higher than normal (6C) on the top shelf overnight.
I let my raisin bread proof overnight in the refrigerator ,then I added my raisins and let it proof again under the oven light, for 2 hours and then baked, the crumb, was beautiful and soft
I always wanted to know if I should proof for an hour or so after shaping to let it rise a bit and then stick in the fridge. Or just stick in the fridge after shaping. And then allow to proof at room tempersture and let it rise. Then stick in oven. Thanks grant for this experiment. It seems like both ways would work.
This is so interesting. Recently baked my very first SD bread,using your recipe and following each step but the last. That being, taking my cold proofed dough out long before my oven had preheated. Which seemed to take forever. Gas oven!! Don't have a Dutch oven to preheat,so can't figure out why it takes so long to preheat. For a newbie it turned out perfect. Going to try the cold oven method with a "clay oven" ..
Grant, thanks again for showing us interesting sourdough techniques. I have tried it both ways as you demonstrated in the video. My choice is to bake it right after I take it out of the fridge. My loaves actually appear bigger and better with this method. The process to bake sourdough bread already takes considerable time and adding 4 more hours to the process isn't efficient or worth the effort. If you want to bring the dough to room temperature before baking it, you can cut that time in half by using a seedling mat.The mat gently warms the basket (and the dough) without baking it. My normal method of making the sourdough is that after letting my dough ferment for 6 to 8 hours on a seedling mat, I then shape it and put it into a rice flour dusted oval shaping basket. From there I cover it (with parchment paper and basket liner) and place it in the fridge (upper most shelf - this makes a difference in dough temperature). Eight or more hours later, when I take the dough out, there is visible cold fermentation rise on the dough. Then I take it out, score it, and then place it in a pre-heated Challenger Bread Pan. The bread pan has been heated to 450° F for 45 minutes. I then turn the oven OFF and let the bread bake from the heat of the pan for 30 minutes. I know, this seems counter-intuitive, but the bread gets great oven spring and "ears." Then I take the lid off the bread pan and turn the oven back ON and heat it to 400° F (I don't wait for the oven to reach temperature) and bake the loaf for 20 minutes more.
The baking part that is, my end of proofing I proofing for 1 hour in oven with a little heat added for 1 minute, then fridge for 1 hour and bake, I've heard theories on the right cooking temp too, too many unknown variables 🤯
This is a great experiment! I bake with einkorn dough, and it's difficult to handle especially higher hydration so I've gotten used to cold dough bakes. I also noticed the dough keeps it's shape and doesn't start laying flat. I still got a lot to learn! Haha
Thank you Grant for all your great informative videos on baking sourdough, I've learned so much from you and enjoy all that you do. The comments on this video have been helpful as well. I'll be doing a pre shape on a loaf today about noon and once finished with final shape I'm going to put in my banneton basket and leave on the counter for 60 to 90 minutes and pop in the fridge. I'm looking forward to trying this because my dough always looks small in the basket. Thanks again, Grant
Nice video. Very interesting experiment. I think you should let it half-proof at room temp to be sure it will reach full proof in the fridge. That works best for me.
I have tried both ways and my best outcome is to let the dough proof about a half hour before going into the frig overnight and then letting it warm up on counter next morning and carefully checking that it does not overproof and then bake it..times may vary for this depending on my house temperature if its warmer or cooler.
I tried your idea of a 1 hour proof in the banneton basket on the counter before going in the fridge over a week ago. It worked out great! I'm doing prep day tomorrow on 2 loaves and bake day Thursday and will definitely use your experiment again, Grant. I'm new at baking sourdough. Following your recipes has been a lot of learning for me. I always bake 2 loaves, hoping I'll have 2 this time, as good as last bake. Thank you, Grant
Thanks! I did the same method (1 hour proof on the counter before the long cold proof in the fridge) in my latest video about Cinnamon Raisin Sourdough Bread. It worked out amazing.
I make regular bread, not sour dough, cold fermented, and I purposely don't let it come up to temp, it gives me a denser crumb that I strongly prefer. ESPECIALLY since I bag and refrigerate it after a few hours, and lightly toast when I need a piece. Because when toasting it gives a much more pleasing texture. I can make it perfectly fluffy too, but I strongly prefer not to.
I have a question for you and your fans: What's wrong with my bulk rise? I autolyse, use active starter I've been maintaining for months, and I bulk rise in 85F in the metal mixer bowl. After about 3 hours (with stretch+folds) my dough almost looks over-proofed. I usually panic a little and rush the final proof (in fridge) because I'm already passing the poke test. Bread comes out flatter than I'd like. Tastes good, less sour (which I like), but not IG-approved, lol. Am I bulk-rising too hot/fast? Or is my lack of final proof the problem? I figure I'm either over-doing the fermentation, or under-doing it. The dough looks bubbly and puffed to 120%+ so I assume I'm in the sweet spot, but the dough is flabby. When I score it, it comes apart quickly rather than hold shape. I'm using a 70-75% hydration, with a medium-wet starter. Is my dough too wet? Can anyone help?
I've been letting it proof for 1½ to 2 hours at room temp prior to cold proofing and then baking right out of the fridge. I've also slightly increased bake time to get a darker crust. Personally I like a tighter crumb and shorter ears, so ...
There are so many factors that go into baking bread, its quite humbling. The more i bake i tend to be happier with the loaves that i push the proofing time, larger loaves with a lighter texture
I cold proofed my bread and baked straight away after preheating dutch oven, but it cooked significantly slower than usual! I ended up having to leave the top on for almost 30 mins before removing it to bake for another 18 and the dough is simultaneously lighter in color than most loaves I bake with a singed top. I guess next time I'll let it heat up a bit first. Anybody have ideas?
Pretty sure this is a fermentation issue and has little to do with the temperature the dough is at when it goes into the oven. First dough is a bit underfermented and that’s why the crumb is denser, it had a big ovenspring and the crust is more golden. Second dough is nicely - or slightly overfermented and that’s why it spreads out more, has less ovenspring, darker crust and softer crumb. If you proof your dough a bit longer before going into the fridge and bake straight from the fridge I think you’ll get the same result.
Yes, but the act of "letting dough come up to room temperature" does result in increasing the total fermentation time by quite a bit, which is what I essentially saw in this video. I agree with you, and additionally say that temperature and fermentation are very much related.
I mix and form early night before. I ferment at room temperature for a couple of hours until 3/4 volume and then refrigerate. Next day directly bake from the fridge. Any time I had tried to warm up I will loose volume during scouring. Directly from physics lesson the cold dough contains more gas that will expand during cooking. We must have in mind that both ways not all fermentation gas is contained in the dough before and during cooking.
Good comparison...how about the taste? Any difference? My suspicion is that the one that u let come up to room temperature was perhaps a bit more tangy/sour?
I wondered the same thing. It seems that taste would be an important consideration when comparing the two loaves. Sorry, minus one point for that oversight.
Aside from the nice ear, the cold one looks more springy and round the way I prefer. Also I don’t prefer the hard dark crust. It hurts my mouth. Thanks for making this video
I mixed 500g flour, 100g sourdough starter, 300g warm water. Let it rest for 1 hour then add 5g of salt. Started folding 10-12 times every 30 minutes until I did 5 sets of folding. Then proofed it for 3 hours at 30 degrees celsius in the oven. Then did the last folding and then shaped it right away. Then I am resting it inside the fridge. I noticed that the outer layer has cracked. What does it mean? Where did I go wrong?
I get the BEST OVEN SPRING when I shape my loaves and put them right in the fridge 19 hours then take my bread right out of the fridge into my super hot dutch oven compared to room temperature sourdough.My very first loaf I baked was room temp proofed and was OK but NOTHING like my cold proof loaves!!
Thanks, I am doing this today! Last evening after my final shaping, it went straight into frig like you, & I will wait till this afternoon for a total of 19 hours to bake. I can't wait! Also mine goes in a cold oven for 55 min & top off for 10 min. This should be the grand experiment! Tks again! 👍
Nothing is better in the morning that smell of fresh coffee and backed bread / danish pastry. Haw, could you prepare the dough in the evening, so you wouldn't have to wait in the morning 4 houses for the dough to come to room temperature? Would a hair dryer set on hot helped? Inserted of backing bread, probably the dough should be broken to the smaller bun, rolls portions ?
There are many recipes on YT for sourdough buns. You don't need to wait hours to bake them, just put them in the heated oven straight out of the fridge in the morning.
You know I love the channel 🙂…I follow your standard hydration recipe but still having trouble getting the rise…it’s still too dense. The starter is good…doubles in size and floats…I fold it 3 times…every 30 minutes…then let’s it sit for 5 hours. Sometimes I’ll put it in the fridge but sometimes I’ll bake it after 5 hours on the counter. Still not getting rise. I don’t use a banneton basket so perhaps when I take it out of its bulk fermentation I am knocking too much air out?
@@GrantBakes hey Grant, I mix, fold, and let the dough rise all in the same bowl. Then when I am ready to bake it I take it out and just cover it with a tea towel while the oven comes to 500.
@@palmchord thanks…yes, I’m kinda thinking that’s a part of it. I do get it into a ball and using a bench scrapper get some tension but even waiting for the oven to heat it flattens out.
Hello, just a question, every single time I attempt to proof a bread in the fridge, the bread is keep rising and doubling and when I score it some hours later it deflates and after I cooke it the texture in not right
I would like to learn where I could purchase a cast iron baking pan and lid with two handles like shown in the video. Can you provide the brand that is used.
Wife: "it's not the size of the ear but the flavour that counts" Me: *crying uncontrollably* "dammit, it's not usually like this. My fridge has a cold zone!"
I made my dough but then something came up and had to put it in the fridge after 3 hours or so after proofing. Now I won't be able to shape and proof a second time until it's been around 24 hrs. Cancm ypu help me with this?
I use an outdoor garage refrigerator that's set for a warmer temperature and my house is a lot warmer than yours. I still like testing and watching how my loaf proofs..to long proof it will stick in banneton and I don't like that at all. so careful proofing and watching works best for me,.,,not to warm and not to cold:)
I respectfully suggest that you are confusing dough temperature with fermentation development (i.e. proving) - the Room Temperature dough was given an extra 4 hours proving, so the difference may have nothing to do with temperature! If you'd let the Fridge Temperature dough prove for an equivalent longer time in the fridge, you'd surely obtain a fairer comparison? As we all know, dough proves faster when warmer, and slower when colder, so not only have you made a misleading comparison, but you have exaggerated the difference by giving the Room Temperature dough the equivalent of perhaps an extra 12 hours in the fridge! Thus all your experiment demonstrates is the difference between one dough which has fermented substantially more than the other.
I see what you're saying, but the experiment was comparing two things: (1) the act of baking the cold-proofed dough straight from the fridge, and (2) baking the cold-proofed dough once it has come back up to room temperature. The added fermentation on the second loaf is a natural result of letting the dough come back up to room temperature. I had no intention of being misleading. My biggest takeaway is that when recipes tell you to "let the dough come back up to room temperature for an hour or so" - that short amount of time probably won't have much effect on the temperature of the dough, unless it's really hot in the kitchen. The only way to really let it come up to room temperature is to leave it for quite a long time, which will then increase the proofing time, of course. I see what you're saying, and yes, the "proofing" aspect was another variable in the equation that I didn't have the ability to isolate. I'm not sure how one would let the dough come up to room temperature naturally without giving the dough extra proofing time. Truly was just trying to do an interesting experiment, not to be misleading in the results. I do appreciate your comment!
I would say the room temp loaf was bigger because it had a more open crumb, more air, larger volume overall. I would say it had a more open crumb because of the extra 4 hours of proofing time at room temp. Letting the cold dough proof longer at room temp before going into the fridge should yield similar results.
@@GrantBakes Using a banneton and using just a bowl. Bannetons costs £15 and I already spent £200 on dutch oven and still getting bread as hard as stone lol! Also, can you compare a fully risen starter vs a not fully active starter? Cheers!
@@mjackson9067 Are you having better results? I find the starter needs to be very active ( but don't let it collapse) and the dough should not be left too long during the bulk ferment. It comes out better for me if I let it rise to 50-75%, then shape, then rest in the bowl or banneton for 60-90 minutes, then refrigerate overnight, preheat the oven, then remove from the fridge , score it, then bake without letting it sit to warm up.
Just put my grainy wholewheat sourdough into the oven with only the light on to bring it to room temp. This is my first fridge-proofed loaf. Fingers crossed.
Your dough will continue to rise in the fridge until the internal temperature cools down. This gives about an hour in the fridge of rising before slowing down.
The cold loaf looks like an underproofed loaf to me. If you had nailed the fermantation for this test the roomtemped loaf would have been overproofed. In any case if fermantation is spot on before going into the fridge, i would say you will get an oveproofed loaf letting it get too roomtemp every time. Saying the roomtemped loaf wins in this video has nothing too do with it being roomtemped, it was just underproofed going into the fridge.
The 2nd one looks better because the way you cut it, but I think there is a difference in shape. The 1st one retained more of the round shape compared to the other.
Do you know anything about higher altitude sour dough bread baking. I have been using your 70% hydration recipe and while it’s really good it seems more dense than what I was expecting. Any ideas if the altitude would have an affect on the dough and if I need to alter anything
Google- Sourdough Home. Ask Mike about it. I think he once mentioned he was a professional baker in Boulder, CO. I'm at 4,500 feet and things happen a little bit quicker here, or either my starter is faster than normal.
It depends on the flour you use is exactly the same ones, all bakes doesn't turn out same when use in different regions of the earth. You can increase your hydration by 2% and see how it goes, record and try again increase more as it goes.
Here's a guide from Maurizio at ThePerfectLoaf.com, who lives in New Mexico, I believe. www.theperfectloaf.com/guides/how-to-bake-sourdough-bread-at-high-altitude/
Great experiment Grant. Mostly, i let the shaped dough rise for 30-40 minutes to proof in room temp before i transfer it to the fridge. Another experiment i’m following lately, while the oven pre-heating for 1 hour, i transfer the panettone to the freezer. During this 1 hour freezing, the dough become easy to score, hold it self while taking your time to enjoy scoring.
Sadly, can't help but notice that in most of these videos, the importance is set on the looks of the bread, not the flavor or texture while eating.... I was hoping he would mention something about the difference in acidity and flavor... It's like people are baking for social media only 😢
Check out my latest series of videos for a focus on sourness/flavor. If I focus on too many variables at once people tend to get mad. Can’t please everyone I guess 😊
Just listen to the dough, it will tell you if it’s ready to get baked or not. Learn to do the poke test. It will not be the same every time, just going for a set amount of time every time is wrong imo.
Good video but ffs how do you not even bring up the issue of flavor?! dude you are in that instagram warp where you have lost sight of WHY we are doing this, it's to eat the bread, bro.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Watch my medium-hydration sourdough bread recipe video here: ruclips.net/video/8ZTOwHbdkaE/видео.html
As far as I know, most professionals let it rest and proof a bit more(an hour let’s say) once it’s been put in the banneton, before it goes in the fridge. So doing both a rest and proof before and after the fridge for an hour might be ideal. I’ll try this on my next loaf.
I agree that seems to be a best practice in a professional setting.
It all depends on your level of fermentation. Leave it out after shaping if you need it to puff up a little more, otherwise, it's straight to the fridge for a retard after shaping.
@@nancypahl7755 yeah for sure. Earlier this year, when I was a bit more of a novice baker and/or it was colder in winter/spring time, my fermentation was lacking compared to now in the summer and I’m finding I have to get it in the fridge pretty quick to limit the continued rise. Lately I’ve been opening the fridge the next day and finding overly puffy dough.
Its frustrating because I’ll be begging for these levels of fermentation in a few months when the temps have plummeted. 🥶🥵
I always thought if you're dealing with cold dough, you leave it out in the banneton before the fridge for an hour. If your dough is warm, no need to leave it out before going in the fridge. This is because it takes upwards of 5 hours for the dough to drop a mere 5 degrees, meaning it will proof some more in the fridge before the temp drops down low enough to slow it down.
I had better result with the dough going directly from the fridge to the oven (0.5 hour room temp proofing before fridge) , but it may depend on the recipe, so I guess one has to try both to decide what works best for their setup.
@8:00, yeah, that’s what I do but you have to gauge it because when you place it in the fridge, it keeps proofing until it reaches the fridge temperature. There is some amount of time before the dough cools down to 34F or whatever your fridge temp is set to. My last four loaves overproofed so I need to cut down the initial bulk fermentation or proof shorter time in the banneton.
Good video! I normally put the dough in the banneton and let it rise 60-90 minutes before putting in the refrigerator. Then go straight from the frig into the oven. Seems to work pretty well.
That’s what I do also.
Excellent review. Very thorough and complete. Step by step walk through is logical and clear. Great voice. Thank you for this informative video.
I will be the contrary, I believe the cold dough was the most beautiful loaf, they are both great but the final shape of the cold loaf looks better to me
Thanks for doing this. I always wondered whether or not I was doing it right. My dough is sometimes stickier and tough to work with so yesterday I refrigerated it before I put it in the banneton. Much easier to work with and score.
I was going to let it get to room temp first by but now I think I’ll just preheat the Dutch oven and let it fly cold.
Wish me luck. Knowing you didn’t experience a disaster gives me comfort that all will be alright in the end.
Another possibility is that the dough was slightly under-fermented when you shaped the loaves. The loaf that came up to room temperature had an extra long fermentation. So the solution may be to allow your dough to ferment longer, shape the dough into loaves, cold proof, and then bake straight out of the refrigerator.
You’re right, that is another possibility. I do think the dough was on point when I shaped it, but it could have been off, of course.
@@GrantBakes I find it challenging to tell when a dough is optimally fermented. After dozens (maybe hundreds) of trials, I realized I was waiting too long. So I cut back from 50 - 100% growth to 20 - 30% growth. The new timing has been working better. But today, I accidentally allowed my dough to double. So I stuck the shaped loaf in the freezer for nearly two hours in an effort to quickly slow fermentation. Then I placed the loaf in the fridge, where it will stay until tomorrow. I'll know by noon tomorrow whether my "fix" worked!
@@alancantor9437 Let us know how that works, please. Also, what is your freezer temperature? I've put my banneton into the freezer for an hour but I would think it might freeze within 2 hours!
Nearly two hours in the freezer didn't cause my loaf to freeze. Not sure of the temperature, but it's cold in there!
The bread came out nicely! Going forward, I'm going to allow my dough to ferment longer than usual, freeze the dough for an hour or two to quickly slow fermentation, and then refrigerate.
I agree with this, the dough left out to come to room temp actually had a longer bulk, in a sense. That's what I got from this - extend your bulk, it's going into the frig too soon for the cold retard.
I really appreciate the sourdough baking content, I was really struggling on what temperature to prove my loaf at.
Hi! What about the flavour? Was there a difference in flavour when you did this experiment and were you happy with it?
I think I can see the difference so I know it is going to be special.
Thank you ! I knew extend cold ferment time developed more flavor and that a cold surface scores easier SOO this way of doing the last proof (including your idea to wait ~ 1 hr. before fridging) should work great . Thanx again !!
Great video Grant. I usually have 2 options. If the weather is cooler then I bring the fridge dough out around about midnight before bedtime. Then it gets around 8-9 hours before it goes into the oven. The other way is if it’s warmer then I take it out about 6am. Also give it around 8 hours depending on the dough before putting in the oven.
What is the reason you don't bake the dough without putting it in the fridge at all?
@Elizabeth-dg8dn Mainly down to weather temps. Anything below about 15 degrees C I can allow my dough to proof outside. But this is a method specifically tailored to my dough characteristics. There are many variables affecting a result, yours will be different
Great vid. You’re a great bread professor.
Thank you so much! That's very kind of you to say.
Fabulous video. Glad I went trolling and found you! Put my dough in the fridge last night as I started it way too late in the day to finish it by the evening. Have done this in the past and have always wondered “ take it out and warm or not” and “ so exactly how long do I warm it?” Yay, love your answers here. It’s all ok! For me bread is like art, but baking can be improved with science soooo combine it. Oven warming now. Cold bread on the counter. Thank you for this video. Excellent presentation!!! 🎉
great experiment , thanks for sharing this.
I'm glad I saw this vid. I have actually been thinking about trying the very work around you discuss at the end. Leting it proof for a while then put in fridge and cook cold. The reason being that I had noticed if I need to do my bread in one day, just letting it proof out then baking I would get that bigger looking loaf with nice crumb but I liked handling the cold fridge proofed bread better, so i had been thinking I would try it. Have you done so yet? I am going to the next loaf, proof for a couple hours or so out then put it in the fridge then bake in am. Again thanks for posting about these variations and experiments.
Thanks Grant, always great information 👍🏻
Interesting, I've just been discussing this with my wife. I leave it on the counter for around an hour before baking. Also I stretch my initial loaf shape out as long as possible for enable easier slicing, thanks.
I baked a loaf this morning, before I put it in the fridge I let it sit in my banneton
at room temp for 2 hours. Got a very nice oven spring, more so than going directly
into the fridge. Total proofing time was about 6 hours
That's exactly something I want to try!
That has worked well for me too; after watching the Claire Saffitz video I tried her simple method of shaping and also the proofing for 1 - 1,5 hrs of proofing in the bannetons at room temperature before putting it into the fridge. Perfect ovenspring and ear, nice pattern from the banneton as well.
Thanks for your videos Grant, they are nice and instructive. Learned a lot from you already.
Finally something I have tried and now don’t feel so silly. Nice to know others experiment. Thanks for this. Heat in gou the oven now. Cold bread on the counter to warm.
You're right, proofing at room temp before cold proofing yields the best result (at least for my recipe). Then bake from cold. I cold proof in my basement fridge, which is set a bit higher than normal (6C) on the top shelf overnight.
thanks a lot, it's so informative and giving me more knowledge about sourdough bread.
Thanks for the comment!
Found your answer 😆 I had this question after watching another one of your videos.
I let my raisin bread proof overnight in the refrigerator ,then I added my raisins and let it proof again under the oven light, for 2 hours and then baked, the crumb, was beautiful and soft
I just wondered this experiment and you answered it! Thank you.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the comment!
I always wanted to know if I should proof for an hour or so after shaping to let it rise a bit and then stick in the fridge. Or just stick in the fridge after shaping. And then allow to proof at room tempersture and let it rise. Then stick in oven. Thanks grant for this experiment. It seems like both ways would work.
I definitely think both would work!
This is so interesting. Recently baked my very first SD bread,using your recipe and following each step but the last. That being, taking my cold proofed dough out long before my oven had preheated. Which seemed to take forever. Gas oven!! Don't have a Dutch oven to preheat,so can't figure out why it takes so long to preheat. For a newbie it turned out perfect. Going to try the cold oven method with a "clay oven" ..
Grant, thanks again for showing us interesting sourdough techniques. I have tried it both ways as you demonstrated in the video. My choice is to bake it right after I take it out of the fridge. My loaves actually appear bigger and better with this method. The process to bake sourdough bread already takes considerable time and adding 4 more hours to the process isn't efficient or worth the effort. If you want to bring the dough to room temperature before baking it, you can cut that time in half by using a seedling mat.The mat gently warms the basket (and the dough) without baking it. My normal method of making the sourdough is that after letting my dough ferment for 6 to 8 hours on a seedling mat, I then shape it and put it into a rice flour dusted oval shaping basket. From there I cover it (with parchment paper and basket liner) and place it in the fridge (upper most shelf - this makes a difference in dough temperature). Eight or more hours later, when I take the dough out, there is visible cold fermentation rise on the dough. Then I take it out, score it, and then place it in a pre-heated Challenger Bread Pan. The bread pan has been heated to 450° F for 45 minutes. I then turn the oven OFF and let the bread bake from the heat of the pan for 30 minutes. I know, this seems counter-intuitive, but the bread gets great oven spring and "ears." Then I take the lid off the bread pan and turn the oven back ON and heat it to 400° F (I don't wait for the oven to reach temperature) and bake the loaf for 20 minutes more.
Hi, does your dough go flat when it comes out of the basket onto parchment paper or pan? Thx
@@sophiesoulsister2222 No, it doesn't, but I usually place it in the pan in less than 5 minutes.
@@bread_baker thank you for responding
I'm a noob at this, gonna try this method in an hour,
The baking part that is, my end of proofing I proofing for 1 hour in oven with a little heat added for 1 minute, then fridge for 1 hour and bake, I've heard theories on the right cooking temp too, too many unknown variables 🤯
This is a great experiment! I bake with einkorn dough, and it's difficult to handle especially higher hydration so I've gotten used to cold dough bakes. I also noticed the dough keeps it's shape and doesn't start laying flat. I still got a lot to learn! Haha
Very useful experiment and I learned something… thank you!
Great to hear!
Thank you Grant for all your great informative videos on baking sourdough, I've learned so much from you and enjoy all that you do. The comments on this video have been helpful as well. I'll be doing a pre shape on a loaf today about noon and once finished with final shape I'm going to put in my banneton basket and leave on the counter for 60 to 90 minutes and pop in the fridge. I'm looking forward to trying this because my dough always looks small in the basket. Thanks again, Grant
Did it work? What were your results of leaving it to rest/rise pre-fridge?
@AmysMusic7 really good, I always leave on the counter for at least 1 hour pre fridge
Great video, just the info that I needed.. thanks!
Nice video. Very interesting experiment. I think you should let it half-proof at room temp to be sure it will reach full proof in the fridge. That works best for me.
Yeah, I think that’s what I might try.
@@GrantBakes
Have you tried it?
This video was very helpful. Thank you.
I have tried both ways and my best outcome is to let the dough proof about a half hour before going into the frig overnight and then letting it warm up on counter next morning and carefully checking that it does not overproof and then bake it..times may vary for this depending on my house temperature if its warmer or cooler.
Well done for your spirit of experimentation!!
Thanks!
Did you happen to notice a difference in flavor or sourness? Was the texture any different also?
I tried your idea of a 1 hour proof in the banneton basket on the counter before going in the fridge over a week ago. It worked out great! I'm doing prep day tomorrow on 2 loaves and bake day Thursday and will definitely use your experiment again, Grant. I'm new at baking sourdough. Following your recipes has been a lot of learning for me. I always bake 2 loaves, hoping I'll have 2 this time, as good as last bake. Thank you, Grant
Thanks! I did the same method (1 hour proof on the counter before the long cold proof in the fridge) in my latest video about Cinnamon Raisin Sourdough Bread. It worked out amazing.
I make regular bread, not sour dough, cold fermented, and I purposely don't let it come up to temp, it gives me a denser crumb that I strongly prefer. ESPECIALLY since I bag and refrigerate it after a few hours, and lightly toast when I need a piece. Because when toasting it gives a much more pleasing texture. I can make it perfectly fluffy too, but I strongly prefer not to.
Thank you so much I like your vedios so much. I am from saudi arabia
I have a question for you and your fans: What's wrong with my bulk rise? I autolyse, use active starter I've been maintaining for months, and I bulk rise in 85F in the metal mixer bowl. After about 3 hours (with stretch+folds) my dough almost looks over-proofed. I usually panic a little and rush the final proof (in fridge) because I'm already passing the poke test. Bread comes out flatter than I'd like. Tastes good, less sour (which I like), but not IG-approved, lol.
Am I bulk-rising too hot/fast? Or is my lack of final proof the problem? I figure I'm either over-doing the fermentation, or under-doing it. The dough looks bubbly and puffed to 120%+ so I assume I'm in the sweet spot, but the dough is flabby. When I score it, it comes apart quickly rather than hold shape. I'm using a 70-75% hydration, with a medium-wet starter. Is my dough too wet?
Can anyone help?
I would say bulk rising too hot.
You’re so smart bro❤
I've been letting it proof for 1½ to 2 hours at room temp prior to cold proofing and then baking right out of the fridge. I've also slightly increased bake time to get a darker crust.
Personally I like a tighter crumb and shorter ears, so ...
There are so many factors that go into baking bread, its quite humbling. The more i bake i tend to be happier with the loaves that i push the proofing time, larger loaves with a lighter texture
I cold proofed my bread and baked straight away after preheating dutch oven, but it cooked significantly slower than usual! I ended up having to leave the top on for almost 30 mins before removing it to bake for another 18 and the dough is simultaneously lighter in color than most loaves I bake with a singed top. I guess next time I'll let it heat up a bit first. Anybody have ideas?
Hi grant as you probably noticed the room temperature dough was stickier ie was wetter than the cold dough this explains the darker crust .
Thank you! So helpful! 🙌🏼
I guess it also depends on the dough temperature before you put it in the fridge. It can still rise a little before it cools down.
Yeah, that would absolutely affect the rise too.
Thanks for the tips!
Just wondering when making faccocia after cold fermentation how long should i let it come to room temp. My house is chilly
Pretty sure this is a fermentation issue and has little to do with the temperature the dough is at when it goes into the oven. First dough is a bit underfermented and that’s why the crumb is denser, it had a big ovenspring and the crust is more golden. Second dough is nicely - or slightly overfermented and that’s why it spreads out more, has less ovenspring, darker crust and softer crumb. If you proof your dough a bit longer before going into the fridge and bake straight from the fridge I think you’ll get the same result.
Yes, but the act of "letting dough come up to room temperature" does result in increasing the total fermentation time by quite a bit, which is what I essentially saw in this video. I agree with you, and additionally say that temperature and fermentation are very much related.
It's wild that 62° is "room temperature" for you. That's scarf weather for me 😅
I mix and form early night before. I ferment at room temperature for a couple of hours until 3/4 volume and then refrigerate. Next day directly bake from the fridge. Any time I had tried to warm up I will loose volume during scouring. Directly from physics lesson the cold dough contains more gas that will expand during cooking. We must have in mind that both ways not all fermentation gas is contained in the dough before and during cooking.
Good comparison...how about the taste? Any difference? My suspicion is that the one that u let come up to room temperature was perhaps a bit more tangy/sour?
Hey, Moj! You're right I forgot to mention that. Actually, I hardly noticed any difference in the taste at all.
@@GrantBakes Thx....to me the dough that u baked straight from the fridge looked nicer and more appetizing! I generally dont like big floppy ears!! 😁
I wondered the same thing. It seems that taste would be an important consideration when comparing the two loaves. Sorry, minus one point for that oversight.
Aside from the nice ear, the cold one looks more springy and round the way I prefer. Also I don’t prefer the hard dark crust. It hurts my mouth. Thanks for making this video
I mixed 500g flour, 100g sourdough starter, 300g warm water. Let it rest for 1 hour then add 5g of salt. Started folding 10-12 times every 30 minutes until I did 5 sets of folding. Then proofed it for 3 hours at 30 degrees celsius in the oven. Then did the last folding and then shaped it right away. Then I am resting it inside the fridge. I noticed that the outer layer has cracked. What does it mean? Where did I go wrong?
I get the BEST OVEN SPRING when I shape my loaves and put them right in the fridge 19 hours then take my bread right out of the fridge into my super hot dutch oven compared to room temperature sourdough.My very first loaf I baked was room temp proofed and was OK but NOTHING like my cold proof loaves!!
Thanks, I am doing this today! Last evening after my final shaping, it went straight into frig like you, & I will wait till this afternoon for a total of 19 hours to bake. I can't wait! Also mine goes in a cold oven for 55 min & top off for 10 min. This should be the grand experiment! Tks again! 👍
Nothing is better in the morning that smell of fresh coffee and backed bread / danish pastry. Haw, could you prepare the dough in the evening, so you wouldn't have to wait in the morning 4 houses for the dough to come to room temperature? Would a hair dryer set on hot helped? Inserted of backing bread, probably the dough should be broken to the smaller bun, rolls portions ?
There are many recipes on YT for sourdough buns. You don't need to wait hours to bake them, just put them in the heated oven straight out of the fridge in the morning.
You know I love the channel 🙂…I follow your standard hydration recipe but still having trouble getting the rise…it’s still too dense. The starter is good…doubles in size and floats…I fold it 3 times…every 30 minutes…then let’s it sit for 5 hours. Sometimes I’ll put it in the fridge but sometimes I’ll bake it after 5 hours on the counter. Still not getting rise. I don’t use a banneton basket so perhaps when I take it out of its bulk fermentation I am knocking too much air out?
Hey, Jason! Where do you let the dough proof if you’re not using a banneton basket? Do you use a linen cloth or something like that?
Let's trouble shoot this! I want to find a solution for you 👍
@@GrantBakes hey Grant, I mix, fold, and let the dough rise all in the same bowl. Then when I am ready to bake it I take it out and just cover it with a tea towel while the oven comes to 500.
To me it sounds as if you skipped the shaping step. Your dough needs some tension or it will just spread out onto the surface.
@@palmchord thanks…yes, I’m kinda thinking that’s a part of it. I do get it into a ball and using a bench scrapper get some tension but even waiting for the oven to heat it flattens out.
Great video!
how long can i leave it in the fridge? i have a chocolate sourdough cold proofing now for 7 hours. dont know what to look for or when to take it out?
You appear to have a convection oven. Serious question: Do you use the convection,Yes or No?
I do not ever turn on the convection setting for bread.
what fi you put it in a proofing oven from the fridge?
Hello, just a question, every single time I attempt to proof a bread in the fridge, the bread is keep rising and doubling and when I score it some hours later it deflates and after I cooke it the texture in not right
I would like to learn where I could purchase a cast iron baking pan and lid with two handles like shown in the video. Can you provide the brand that is used.
Hey, Bill. Here's my affiliate link to the exact one: grantbakes.com/challenger
i might try your idea, tomorrow
Thanks for the comment!
I like the one on the left
Its great video 👏🏼👏🏼
Thanks for this...
Thanks for watching!
The room temp dough was probably a bit overproofed and starch turned into sugar, which makes it brown/burn faster;)
Wife: "it's not the size of the ear but the flavour that counts"
Me: *crying uncontrollably* "dammit, it's not usually like this. My fridge has a cold zone!"
What bread knife do you use?
I made my dough but then something came up and had to put it in the fridge after 3 hours or so after proofing. Now I won't be able to shape and proof a second time until it's been around 24 hrs. Cancm ypu help me with this?
I use an outdoor garage refrigerator that's set for a warmer temperature and my house is a lot warmer than yours. I still like testing and watching how my loaf proofs..to long proof it will stick in banneton and I don't like that at all. so careful proofing and watching works best for me,.,,not to warm and not to cold:)
Im interested in your very cool dutch oven. Would you mind tagging me with info or a link so i can learn more please?
It's called a bread cloche.
I respectfully suggest that you are confusing dough temperature with fermentation development (i.e. proving) - the Room Temperature dough was given an extra 4 hours proving, so the difference may have nothing to do with temperature! If you'd let the Fridge Temperature dough prove for an equivalent longer time in the fridge, you'd surely obtain a fairer comparison?
As we all know, dough proves faster when warmer, and slower when colder, so not only have you made a misleading comparison, but you have exaggerated the difference by giving the Room Temperature dough the equivalent of perhaps an extra 12 hours in the fridge! Thus all your experiment demonstrates is the difference between one dough which has fermented substantially more than the other.
I see what you're saying, but the experiment was comparing two things: (1) the act of baking the cold-proofed dough straight from the fridge, and (2) baking the cold-proofed dough once it has come back up to room temperature. The added fermentation on the second loaf is a natural result of letting the dough come back up to room temperature. I had no intention of being misleading. My biggest takeaway is that when recipes tell you to "let the dough come back up to room temperature for an hour or so" - that short amount of time probably won't have much effect on the temperature of the dough, unless it's really hot in the kitchen. The only way to really let it come up to room temperature is to leave it for quite a long time, which will then increase the proofing time, of course.
I see what you're saying, and yes, the "proofing" aspect was another variable in the equation that I didn't have the ability to isolate. I'm not sure how one would let the dough come up to room temperature naturally without giving the dough extra proofing time.
Truly was just trying to do an interesting experiment, not to be misleading in the results. I do appreciate your comment!
Would be interesting to know if they weight different after baking. I could imagine the one at room temperature would have come out lighter.🤔
My dough after I put in a banneton proofs more I. The fridge… I don’t know what I’m doing wrong!
I would say the room temp loaf was bigger because it had a more open crumb, more air, larger volume overall. I would say it had a more open crumb because of the extra 4 hours of proofing time at room temp. Letting the cold dough proof longer at room temp before going into the fridge should yield similar results.
Yep! Agreed
I still think it's worth it to warm the dough a few hours.
At the end of the day the most important thing is the taste.
True
Can you compare with or without banneton please?
Hey! What do you mean exactly?
@@GrantBakes Using a banneton and using just a bowl. Bannetons costs £15 and I already spent £200 on dutch oven and still getting bread as hard as stone lol! Also, can you compare a fully risen starter vs a not fully active starter? Cheers!
@@mjackson9067
Are you having better results? I find the starter needs to be very active ( but don't let it collapse) and the dough should not be left too long during the bulk ferment. It comes out better for me if I let it rise to 50-75%, then shape, then rest in the bowl or banneton for 60-90 minutes, then refrigerate overnight, preheat the oven, then remove from the fridge , score it, then bake without letting it sit to warm up.
Nice results on both but how long did you allow it cold proof?
About 8 hrs
Just put my grainy wholewheat sourdough into the oven with only the light on to bring it to room temp. This is my first fridge-proofed loaf. Fingers crossed.
Your dough will continue to rise in the fridge until the internal temperature cools down. This gives about an hour in the fridge of rising before slowing down.
Don't you risk overproofing if you let it come to temperature?
Yes, exactly.
The cold loaf looks like an underproofed loaf to me. If you had nailed the fermantation for this test the roomtemped loaf would have been overproofed. In any case if fermantation is spot on before going into the fridge, i would say you will get an oveproofed loaf letting it get too roomtemp every time. Saying the roomtemped loaf wins in this video has nothing too do with it being roomtemped, it was just underproofed going into the fridge.
The 2nd one looks better because the way you cut it, but I think there is a difference in shape. The 1st one retained more of the round shape compared to the other.
Yeah, there are some many little factors that can go into it and affect the shape.
Do you know anything about higher altitude sour dough bread baking. I have been using your 70% hydration recipe and while it’s really good it seems more dense than what I was expecting. Any ideas if the altitude would have an affect on the dough and if I need to alter anything
Google- Sourdough Home. Ask Mike about it. I think he once mentioned he was a professional baker in Boulder, CO. I'm at 4,500 feet and things happen a little bit quicker here, or either my starter is faster than normal.
Thank you for responding. I’m also at 4500 feet. I’m in AZ
It depends on the flour you use is exactly the same ones, all bakes doesn't turn out same when use in different regions of the earth.
You can increase your hydration by 2% and see how it goes, record and try again increase more as it goes.
Here's a guide from Maurizio at ThePerfectLoaf.com, who lives in New Mexico, I believe. www.theperfectloaf.com/guides/how-to-bake-sourdough-bread-at-high-altitude/
but how was the taste comparison?
He responded to another post stating the taste was largely the same
The “room temp” dough was proofed / fermented four hours LONGER. So dough temp and fermentation time are two different things.
Yes
Great experiment Grant. Mostly, i let the shaped dough rise for 30-40 minutes to proof in room temp before i transfer it to the fridge. Another experiment i’m following lately, while the oven pre-heating for 1 hour, i transfer the panettone to the freezer. During this 1 hour freezing, the dough become easy to score, hold it self while taking your time to enjoy scoring.
That's a good idea too!
can I leave the dough in the room temperature for 24 hours?
That's probably way too long! The dough will likely overproof.
Yeah but do they taste different?
He already answered that by another person and said they taste pretty much the same.
Why didn’t you taste it to see if there was any difference ?
I didn’t mention it in the video. Honestly, there was hardly any noticeable difference in the taste.
I don´t like dark bread, neither hard textures.
Sadly, can't help but notice that in most of these videos, the importance is set on the looks of the bread, not the flavor or texture while eating.... I was hoping he would mention something about the difference in acidity and flavor... It's like people are baking for social media only 😢
Check out my latest series of videos for a focus on sourness/flavor. If I focus on too many variables at once people tend to get mad. Can’t please everyone I guess 😊
A good ear and open crumb us what I'm still chasing.
Just listen to the dough, it will tell you if it’s ready to get baked or not. Learn to do the poke test. It will not be the same every time, just going for a set amount of time every time is wrong imo.
This is ultimately the answer, listening to the dough. I agree.
lol. they're the same...
Good video but ffs how do you not even bring up the issue of flavor?! dude you are in that instagram warp where you have lost sight of WHY we are doing this, it's to eat the bread, bro.
Thanks, Rob.