I served on USS Greeneville briefly from November through December, 1999. As a non-qualified (in submarines) radioman I got to know many of the names mentioned in the video such as Commander Waddle, Lt.Cdr Pfeifer, and some of the other crew of the submarine. I admit I thought very highly of Captain Waddle. He was a very aggressive skipper, whom was yelled at by the USS John Stennis battle group admiral when our boat was labeled as “too aggressive” during our 1999 war game off San Diego when our boat absolutely embarrassed him and his CVSG. My first time meeting him he instantly recognized my Texas accent since he was from Austin. If Captain Waddle had one major flaw it was lack of faith in his officers, as it was his tendency to rip the conn away from the officer of the deck when things were going badly (as the author mentioned he did just before the collision). He did this once while I was aboard during a coolant spill drill. When the WEPS made the mistake of sounding the power plant casualty alarm, he immediately took the conn and embarrassed WEPS in front of everyone. Something missing from the video was the electronic warfare operator on watch (a personal friend of mine) told me that he reported a close contact. If Ehime Maru ran a standard surface search radar, then (per my experience) the radar would’ve been very loud over the conn speakers. My only guess is Captain Waddle knew he was behind schedule, and, upon sighting nothing, initiated the EMBT.
@@waterlinestories You’re welcome! I did find your video to be very good despite a few minor problems. I did read Captain Waddle’s book “The Right Thing” for some of the exposition. I remember that we attacked the USS John Stennis that morning at exactly 6:00:00 am local time once, as I was the electronic warfare operator. What did that mean? Greeneville shot a “water slug” (torpedo tube shot with no torpedo loaded) at the carrier at the exact moment we had permission to fire for the exercise. We also successfully sank the USS Asheville twice, the USS Jefferson City 8 times, and attacked the USS John Stennis 3 times. The simulation registered we hit the Stennis at least once. This is what I meant by we were “too aggressive.” I laugh at it because it showed either how good Greeneville was at sinking enemy warships and/or how bad the Stennis CSG was at anti-submarine operations. One other story I have was an incident while we were in Esquimalt, Canada when some locals attacked some of my shipmates. We were out past curfew (midnight), so I called for a cab to get my drunk buddies back to the boat. All of us but one (me) were restricted to the submarine. Because some of my buddies personally vouched for my integrity, the Chief of the Boat (COB) did not restrict me to the boat. The same day, I learned I had been promoted, and Captain Waddle refused to give me the promotion. He said my own CO of my actual submarine, Commander Stacia of USS Cheyenne, deserved that honor instead. Captain Stacia would also congratulated me after Captain Waddle sent him a message.
@@brentgranger7856 Most interesting Brent - I enjoyed reading your addendum as much as I did watching The WaterLineStory! As a land lubber currently as far away from the sea as it's possible to get in the United Kingdom - around 80 miles - can I ask: Would that torpedo have sunk the CVN-74 in a real life non-wargame encounter? Thx.
@@XXSkunkWorksXX If I may answer in place: A single torpedo doesn't sink a CV. They are quite tough. But it may cause serious trouble like destroying/disabling one or several screws or one or both rudders. Base line: having a modern heavy torpedo hit your CV is bad.
I'd just like to say I really appreciate the way you tell these stories, no unnecessary over top sense of drama or impending danger. Simple, straight and clear telling of each turn of events. Not only is it the most respectful to everyone involved, but it's also the best way to educate.
as an example 28:45 this is exactly the kind of seemingly minor detail that helps us laypersons know why an IRL sub isn't able to fetch people out of the water in 20 seconds like they can do in hollywood
I'm not a sea faring chap, but it seems to me that filling your control room to its limit with non-Navy people chatting and getting in the way, while you're performing difficult combat manoeuvres, is a recipe for a terrible disaster.
I can’t understand how a modern US nuclear submarine does not spot a 200 foot ship in a less than one mile radius from their position, that is the most disturbing aspect of this accident.
He explained it pretty well, sonar struggles to look in the same direction you are currently traveling but excels at angles. So not giving priority to protocol kinda screws up the entire process.
@@coldpotatoes2556 You could do that but if they have any relevant knowledge in the this area they will tell you the same thing. I spent many years on submarines working with VLF, video, HF, microwave, IR, microwave, UHF, and VHF systems, and many years as an instructor on some of those systems. Besides sound, what other method of detection do you think would be effective for underwater use? This was a command problem. As indicated by another poster on this thread this captain did not create a command structure that allowed for healthy bottom to top communication. Squadron and Group command bear some of the responsibility for not detecting and correcting a toxic command structure.
Excellent presentation of the 'e-hi-me' Maru accident, but one which neglects to mention some key failings of Cdr. Waddle and his crew which led to the accident. I was hired by Fuji TV to interpret and translate for their journalists who were covering the board of inquiry. Many journalists from major news organizations were also there and we watched a direct feed of the inquiry at a remote location. The testimony and cross-examination of Cdr. Waddle and the crew was quite dramatic, as were the reactions of those Greenville officers who shared responsibility for the accident and whose careers were ruined as a result. Ironically, according to navy regulations Greenville shouldn't even have given the VIP ride, as such ride-alongs were only permitted during scheduled training events. However, word came down from above that these VIPs were to be given a ride regardless. Thus, the tired crew were recalled from their well-earned time ashore to give a joy ride.Only on the last day of the inquiry did Waddle's excellent attorney (A Mr. Gittens, as I recall), dropped a clue as why this was and that he would be sure to bring this matter up if Cdr. Waddle were to be court-martialed. Apparently, some (or, many) of the VIPs were executives and family members)of oil companies that suppled the navy with petroleum products. I hope that someday a movie or book will cover this tragedy more comprehensively......
Good background information to know. And I would have missed your input if I didn't stop watching this video for an overnight break and finished watching today, then finally read the comments.
Excellent information WE DON'T HEAR ABOUT. This goes on frequently in all branches of our military. I was expecting these were legislators on a VIP trip that weren't happy with Navy spending and delivery time on war ships.
The story becomes even more unpleasant when you learn who it was in the navy hierarchy that demanded the ride-along and why he had been relieved of his position in Japan.......
@@snuffle2269 Good comments.Slightly related, is legislators have pressured spending when the Navy determined a project should be $hitcanned. (refurbished 2 ships cause the shipyard was in his district.)
@@aj.j5833 In one year The U.S.S. Cole incident, the Greenville and then the Naval EP-3E ARIES that the Chinese forced down. It was an odd year for the Navy.
I'll be honest, after reading a bunch of MAIB reports for fatal incidents involving merchant ships, and the prosecutions for those, the lightness/absence of punishment is remarkable. Then again, given thats a theme of US military personnel being reckless and killing foreign citizens, like the fighter jets that skewered a cable car in Italy, i don't know why I'm surprised. Just kind of ridiculous to me, since this feels like it breaches a number of IMO collision regulations (at least if it were not naval, ive never had a need to look into that side of them)
23:45 - "all crammed in the control room packed together like kittens about to be drowned in a bathtub" Personally I would have said packed together like sardines but erm, you do you I guess. 😄 Disclaimer: Please don't drown kittens
Thank you for those videos. I am literally as far from any transportation as can be. I am sitting in rural Syberia, making sure that people who want to waste their time watching cat videos can do so cheaply. Yet watching detailed technical analysis of various techno disasters has taught me greatly on the general principles of interactions between humans and systems, where most problems originate from. I'd not learn that from any book on systems thinking, and I've read some. This channel goes straight into the same folder as Mentour Pilot, Plainly Difficult, Defunctland, and Brick Immortar.
A perfect example of the 'holes in 'Swiss cheese' lining up to create this tragedy. The whole idea of distinguished visitors joy riding on a nuclear submarine is a bad idea, especially when pushing the submarine to the limit, with visitor crowded work areas hampering the crew. Obviously, an activity implemented by a bureaucrat that I'm sure was discontinued after the incident? Thanks for your fantastic presentation. 👏
The DVE definitely should have been discontinued, but shockingly it was not! Maybe they've introduced all sorts of restrictions on extreme maneuvers, tight schedules, and cutting corners for the benefit of VIPs, but as long as the primary reason - the unnnecessary distractions - is allowed to persist, something like this will happen again some day.
The captain of the sub actually wrote a book about this. He owned it, he even went to Japan and addressed the families of those killed. He was an honorable person that made a disastrous mistake.
He retires with his military pension and wrote a book. Oh.....but he had to apologize for his screw-up. He was show-boating and caused this disaster and loss of life. Wonder what he made off the book....?
I can't blame the captain of the sub everyone here is acting like it's the captains fault it's caused by faulty equipment not any fault of any crew sometimes accidents happen and sometimes accidents kill people it was no one's fault
@@sparkie5618 except it was the captains fault (as he is in charge of his crew). He shouldn't have put so much pressure on his crew. If the crew had more breathing room they might have assessed the situation differently and been able to complete the proper procedures, reducing the chance of hitting the fishing vessle to almost 0.
When I was in tbe army Commander Waddle gave a talk at one of our "safety day" events. I think making himself relive the events publicly may have been a way of paying penance. He talked about the guilt and thoughts of suicide. Such a tragedy.
Sharing suicidal thoughts helps preventing suicide; in this case, it seems to convey the whole extent of feelings about guilt. Always listen carefully if someone mentions such thoughts and take them seriously, be open to talk about them, offer getting help
Unbelievably brash conduct on behalf of the commander and even some of the crew, it sounds like. What, ppl decided to abandon protocol cus they had a bunch of civvies on board? Yikes....
Giving talks is one way he earns money. Those talks are not free. He charges from $10,000 to $20,000 for an event. Don't believe this? Look it up on the internet. Maybe he gave the army a discount.
It is also a narcissist way of turning their failure into a vote of sympathy. If he is taking payments for these "penance forums" I wouldn't give his feelings of guilt much respect.
I served on the Greeneville earlier this year and I’m a Sonar Tech. Our systems have limitations. The Navy has been making great strides to improve the system. When a boat changes depth the display may can have some brief moments of blind spots or inaccurate data. Thinking about the old crappy systems and throwing the system affects into it, it’s not entirely surprising this happened. There are a lot of physics and environmental effects that can impact the performance of these systems. This accident could have been avoidable with less distracts of the guests on board, but we have new rules and regulations in place to prevent this after other accidents since this event as well.
If the boat's systems have limitations, then it wasn't a great idea to breach the surface at speed ... especially in busy coastal waters, and without thoroughly checking the surface with the periscope.
US Nuclear Submarine hits a German Cargo Ship in Nov 1972. on the US East Coast. The Weather was bad, the sea was rough and still the US submarine decided to a sneak attack exersice close to the surfase and shortly after 8 am hit the Ship MV " Hagen" from Hapag Lloyd. I was on that Ship on the Bridge at that moment. One Cargo Hold was flooded but otherwise we where ok. We went to Baltimore and our ship was put in a dry dock for repair.
@@kittichord yes, the Press kept it is very low profile and only a small Artikel was printed in one of the local papers and the NY times. BUt one Radio Staion made us a bit famous. When we went to some Bars in the evening we were very welcome and myself, not 18 back them was allowed inside - so we could tell the stort FIRST Hand !!!!
In the early 90s, Waddle was the engineer on the Kentucky Gold crew. I was a newly reported ensign to the Blue crew, which was in its off-crew rotation (meaning the Gold crew had the sub and was preparing to take it out). So someone from my crew offered (ordered? I don't remember) to take me down to the boat to get my first look at it. So I did, and we're walking through the engine room, which was mostly empty, and we're in middle level, walking by one of the motor generators, and I see an electrician standing by it and two legs sticking out of it. The person who was escorting me peeked in, talked to the guy inside, and out popped Waddle, his hands absolutely black with dust from the MG set. My escort introduces me to him and he sticks his hand out to shake mine, and I instinctively look down at it, see it's covered in soot, he does the same, and apologizes for his dirty hand. I don't remember if I shook it or not. And that's my Scott Waddle story.
Sounds like a good officer, not scared to get his hands dirty. My father was Captain of HM Submarine Talent in 1956, and was lightly struck by a ship, ending his career, from RNC Dartmouth age 13 in 1936, to First Lieutenant on HMS Torbay with a DSC by 1945. He married my mother, became a farm manager in South Devon, England, where he raised the best-tasting beef on the planet. He was a hard man to know, probably as his late teens were spent at war, but the ethos of Dartmouth helped shape my life. Even though I took to the army blood in my family, I owe my existence to a ship-submarine collision! /
I served under CDR Waddle on the Gold crew on the 737. He was the ship's Engineer at the time. He was still being "built up" in those days, seeking and learning the valuable skills that would be required of him in the years to come, mostly from the senior enlisted (CPO's). Some years later I (and a fellow shipmate from the 737) bumped into him and had a great conversation and congratulated him on his selection to what I consider to be the most demanding position in the entire US military, Submarine Skipper. My friend and I were shocked at the event that occurred some months later and convinced each other that we would never had let it occur because we knew Skippers require the forceful backup of their subordinates and put that principle into practice at all times. I haven't finished watching this video nor have I read Mr. Waddle's book so please spare me the corrections already forming in the minds of some of you, So I leave you with this: the fast attack Skipper is one of a kind and I had the good fortune to serve under some of the best, those who were well seasoned long before I raised my hand to be there with them. Had the Greeneville not had this encounter perhaps Mr. Waddle may have been counted among those "Seasoned" few.
He wasn't court-martialed because that would draw out & bring into prominence the fact that elites are abusing their positions of power in order to arrange joy rides on a capital military asset, at the expense of the taxpayers, & whose only proper use is in defense of the nation.
Especially to decide a sonar that hadn't worked for a year(?), was not needed, along with insufficient perpendicular travel to fix the ships locations, and, of course, not searching the entire horizon with the periscope.
He wasn't court marshaled because someone higher up ordered him to take these "VIP's" on an afternoon demonstration cruise. Cdr. Waddle surely would have disclosed who provided this command. Commanders do NOT take submarines out for a fun cruise out of their own volition. Someone higher up in the chain of command is responsible even if Cdr. Waddle was showing off and negligent in his duties. I agree that he should have been court marshaled, but so should some captains and some admirals. That's why he was just kicked out of the club.
The night before the accident we ate at the second-floor restaurant at Aloha Tower next to where boat was docked, and I watched the crew come and go as we ate. After the sinking I wondered how many of those boys were lost the next day, very sad
@@berzoidberg3272 Not exactly, no - manslaughter is non-intentional. That's not the same as accidental. Given the details in the video, if it is anywhere near correct, this was not accidental. Skipping safety precautions to perform unnecessary extreme maneuvers just to impress distinguished guests on a tight schedule, is not something you do by accident. But it needs saying that the main responsibility lies with the people (higher up the command chain), who came up with the hare-brained idea of DVE to begin with, rather than the captain and crew who just happened to be the ones for whom all the holes lined up.
@@ivarwind you’re confusing accidental with preventable. this is textbook manslaughter. similar to if you are street racing and hit a pedestrian. it was not done with malice or intent to harm, but due to negligence or any other means
as a former sonar technician on a submarine you are absolutely correct. Active sonar gives away your position instantly. A simple range formula called Ping Steal is used
Oh my, this brings back memories. I actually worked in the ER at the hospital the students and crew were brought to on Oahu. My shift started at 7pm so I wasn't there for their initial arrival,, but I still vividly remember the whole department smelled like diesel fuel from the survivors. And I also remember being puzzled there were no Navy representatives there, even hours later, just Japanese Embassy(?), etc. officials. In retrospect I guess that makes sense, that the Navy was staying far away from the medical treatment while they figured out how the hell this happened, And thanks for these details about what exactly happened in the accident, it was hard to get a lot of information back then.
Unfortunately the right thing to do legally can often feel like the callous thing to do morally. Legally, the Navy was right to stay away; if there had been Navy personnel there, that might be construed as trying to leverage the Japanese survivors in some way, regardless of intent. Similarly, apology=admission of guilt=never apologize is another sad collision of law and morality.
In 2023 a friend of mine brought me to the see baptism, the i started looking videos about scuba diving and found your channel. I loved your content and also your PADI tutorial. Now i'm advanced open water. Your passion and your narrative skills are part of the reason for my love for this. THANKS❤
They really use a very silly way to decide which sub used for the joyrides. When I was in USN my command was selected 3 time because we had greatest operation record, but denied because we weren't "proper USN sailors", who drank to much and we didn't keep our uniform up to USN standards (we kept them the minimal standard required, more busy keeping our boat running and operationally ready. We got surged more then any other commands to cover for them, because we were always ready.). They picked other commands who, knew how to look good, but they were constantly in port, they couldn't keep anything running right and they kept breaking things, but they looked good doing it.
A very well-presented documentary. Thank you. I have been in a similar situation where 82 souls were lost to the sea. Listening to the commentary here, I believe a court marshall should have existed. It would have helped relatives of those who would never come home again. May they all RIP.
Spent 33 years in the US Navy before I retired as Master Chief Petty Officer served on Nimitz class and the George Bush Aircraft Carrier in charge of the Mess Galleys, I always hated guest tours and special invitees.
This is the perfect argument for not taking war ships out for "joy rides." Especially not on nuclear subs!!! Not only an incident like this happening, but there are aspects of a subs capabilities that do not need to be seen by John Q Public. I'm good with not knowing how it all works as ling as it works to protect our interests.
You may want to consider doing a episode on the Australian navy Aircraft Carrier HMAS Melbourne which was involved in 2 major peace time accidents. One in 1964 then again in 1969, Both incidents involved collisions with other war ships which sank costing a considerable loss of life. From my memory both war ships that the HMAS Melbourne struck were split in half. The incidents were with HMAS voyager 1964.then the USS Frank Evans in 1969. Your postings are always interesting and well researched. 👍
Hubris thy name is "We crashed a sub into a ship cause we didn't bother to double check anything" The odds of this happening is astronomical, but clearly possible, and it was during a joyride, there was literally zero reason for them not taking the time to do things right :(
I can't believe Waddle was given a pass on this. I can understand why though. Had they found him guilty of anything, it would have been tacit admission that the US Navy screwed up and that would have brought a whole other ball of political wax. He not only should have been court martialed but indicted for criminally negligent homicide as well.
it's Japanese American relations its complicated especially back then japan doesn't like the US being in their backyard the general Japanese xenophobia means they don't want the us there and do like dealing with them that being said the past 10 years has changed that as china has become a threat japan wants the US near but maybe stationed in the Philippines or Australia that all being said for jump street this was political and orders probably came down to sweep it under the rug and had it been any other country but japan it would have been sweep under the rug quietly as the us government would have just paid alot of cash to the families to go away
Yeah! You got a point!… I am a Navy Vet. We are always held accountable unless you’re a high ranking military officer, politician, or blue blood. They will always find a whipping boy, thats why the other officers went on admin leave while the submarines CO got to have an honorable discharge. Thats the inequality of the world.
After spending over 20 years in the military, I can say unequivocally that the officer corps defends their own. I'm not surprised the captain wasn't court martialed. I'm shocked they didn't pick out the lowest ranking member of the crew to put the blame on.
They dont use active sonar , it gives away the position of the submarine. There's no "pings" Thats why the Captain wasnt worried about one of the displays not working , its a system they almost never use. They only use passive sonar. -They listen to the sound of the surface ship -Then they determine what type of ship it is. -Then they determine how fast the propellor is turning. -From that they determine how much noise the surface contact should be making. -Then they compare the volume of the noise they hear vs what it actually is -Then they factor in sea conditions to get an estimate of the range of the surface contact. They NEVER have a 100% accurate picture of whats going on around them. They are basically walking blindfolded through the woods , they navigate the path completely through memory and dead reckoning while listening for threats and guessing how far away those threats are.
Yes, this guy really puts in work! Every video is so well done, and he seamlessly gives us nautical terms and explains them. I feel like I've learned something. 🌹👍🏽💯
Outstanding story VERY well told. I was surface Navy back in the late '70's, early '80's. But a lot of what you mentioned applied to us as well. I remember this incident in the news. Very tragic. You fleshed out the story for me. What troubles me is it seems there was not one or two mistakes but a series of them. You NEVER assume anything; you always double check. Communication is life and it seems there was not enough of that by sonar or fire control. The mis-spoke contact number was just one example. Too many people in the way is not enough of an excuse not to update plot. OOD was not focused or completely aware. Despite the display being out, there were other options. Redundancy is there for a reason. And failing to make turns to improve contact solutions was a MAJOR flaw on his part. Being behind schedule is not an excuse. Everything still needs to be done according to the book and protocol. 9 dead is why. And in all this, it is ultimately the captain's responsibility. I am truly surprised this didn't go to court martial.
I may have missed it. The Greenville would normally navigate inertially with the contacts plotted using passive sonar (listening not actively pinging). The angles and dangles would degrade the inertial navigation but land fixes (mountain and airport) should have been fed into the inertial navigation data on the OODs periscope sweep. You don’t mention surface sea conditions until well into the unfolding of events. The “sea state” plays an important role in detecting and maintaining tracts and can negatively impact passive detection and tracking of surface contacts (produced as “Sierra one zero, one one etc) and that is further degraded by high speed maneuvers. I’m surprised that the Navy did not conduct a courts marshal. The Greenville conducted an emergency surface drill without basic range safety. That normally includes radar sweeps and use of the ESM antenna (providing line of barring information on surface contacts operating their radars) to ensure the range is clear of contacts. It sounds as if none of the normal steps for ensuring a safe and clear area before the emergency surface drill were conducted and that is negligence in the safe operation and command of Greenville. One minor note. In the US Navy, submariner is pronounced sub-marine-er not sub-mariner - they get a little touchy about that.
There are two reason I can see for not having a court martial, reading your take on this: 1 - Waddle was (ostensibly) very popular, and he had friends in high places (a crew member? elsewhere talks about the frequent VIP tours) 2 - This was not the only time corners had been cut for VIP operations. A court martial after this public accident would have been a very public affair, and it might have come out that this neglect was normal during VIP tours.
As a submariner myself, it always seemed to be the know-it-all annoying guys that cared how it was pronounced. I didn't care and neither did many others I served with. All that mattered was that we were submariners. Qualified in the best damn sub force and part of a long and storied lineage of steely eyed killers of the deep. Submarines once! Submarines twice!
Former Coast Guard ST here..... A sub that's pinging is telling the wholeworld "here I am"! It also amazes me that almost every time Hollywood or others making videos that portray radar or sonar use the ridiculous stock sound effect "ping". I guess they feel they are showing something only insiders would know to make themselves feel smart. I remember hearing USS Greenville sinking a Japanese school ship on the news and wondered WTF. Why would a sub be doing these maneuvers and then following it up with an emergency blow without the operating area being clear and friendly surface ship keeping a lookout for trespassers and keeping Greenville informed??? It's real easy to see with all the visitors in Greenville's control room how confusing it would be, we had visitors in sonar/ CIC on occasion and it is very distracting trying to concentrate and communicate. God rest the poor souls lost on Ehime Maru.
1) Submarines navigate with several technologies, primarily inertial navigation. Sonar is used to detect land masses & objects in the water. It cannot tell you where you are. 2) Ward room. Its Ward room. Not war room. 3) Subs have screws, not propellers.
@@gingerbreadman6657 someone can place a firearm in another's hands with no intent or directions that it be used to harm anyone, the recipient is in charge of its direction of discharge (even without intent to harm, but reckless behavior, courts ask "what would a reasonable man do [ not forsake protocol or create hazardous environments one can avoid " ). The act is what determines the fact of the matter. Accountability is what this entire world avoids, that is the purpose of corporations, right. shielding individuals from responsibility for their harms. I am glad comments show he took responsibility. Forgiveness is what hopefully the families gave him. Nothing escapes the eye of the Lord, though. It is good he is out from "the war game". It all a feigned stage of undue influence that men will follow orders to kill their fellow man. War is business.
These people had control of a submarine that can carry tactical nuclear weapons with 12 cruise missile tubes and is powered by a nuclear reactor. Competence seems to be something no longer considered. This accident was back in 2001 I hate to even think of the competence level of today's officer corps.
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The USS Greenville is a fast attack submarine. While it has the capability to carry nuclear weapons, it is currently, and at the time, not the policy of the US Navy to put nuclear weapons on board fast attack submarines. However, I can neither confirm, nor deny the presence of said nuclear weapons on board the submarine. In other words, you are confusing types and classes of submarines. You are confusing a ballistic missile submarine with a fast attack submarine.
Otherwise called a 688, Los Angeles Class Nuclear Attack Sub (SSN). I do like your objectivity on the subject matter of your videos, and you don't pretend to have any particular proficiency either. You've made another fan with a great respect for your work. Another great video! 👍
Ah yes, a quick glance confirming nothing and assumptions about everyone being on point with a bunch of civilians on board is TOTALLY adequate when one is the captain of a nuclear attack sub.
I am tempted to ask you to elaborate on your vast knowledge of submarine operations, and wait to be astounded by the searing logic of your fiery intellect...
The oceans are vast but shipping routes are very busy ,in the middle of a ocean someone can expect a ship to pass by in 30 min, at any time of the day. For solo navigators or small boas ships are the biggest hazard there is , a small dot on horizon can run you over in 20 minutes .
I have been on this Japanese Boat when I was a Kid In Honolulu (early 70's). They have/had visitation days, etc..They frequently docked in Honolulu Harbor as I recall. My dad was invited on these Sub cruises all the time when we lived in Honolulu. This was, of course, tragic.
What a comprehensive, sobering, well-documented and detailed explanation of the sub crashing into and slicing thru the Japanese educational and training student fishing vessel. Such a terrible and avoidable tragedy. To the families who experienced such tremendous loss, I hope that their memories may be a blessing and comfort, especially through the most difficult times.😔
Viewer's logbook: watch experience debief: -Don't know, how I like those video editing transitions. Idk, maybe shorten the noise/fuzzy effect? Otherwise superb video: +++great script: +All my questions were answered almost immediately as they came up (like: whose job is it to track traffic? what's the updated data the fire control station has on c13? whats the position/depth of the sub after the crash?...). I wasn't left wondering how or why. +I felt like having a very good overview of the sequence of events. I especially liked, that there was no gap in regards to the subs course/maneuvers! +I did not feel disoriented, as in, the information given was never too much to process. +perfect pacing. Never felt rushed, never felt bored. +gripping writing. Starting with the bang and then jumping from the beginning, giving technical details as they became relevant - the suspense kept me deeply hooked. I have adhd and easily drift off, but not here. +++great editing: +I appreciate it very much when numbers are shown in text when they come up. Times, speeds, course, etc.. +the graphics of the layout of the bridge and the occupants, together with the clips of the folks on board, really gave me a sense of how it must've been there and it especially gave me a sense of plausibility, as to the mistakes that were made. +the faces or representation of given crew members really helps me following along. I am quick to overhear a word and miss, who is doing/saying whatever, but this way, I register whose actions are being described. +nice balance between narrator, graphics, b-roll +audio was and level. I could understand every word. Comments on subject: What a crazy story! I am surprised, I hadn't heard of it before. I guess, military crew should learn a bit of commercial piloting's Crew Resource Management and never feel, like they can't speak up. Time: 18:12:24 UTC Location: confidential
@@waterlinestories :) In a community post in the past, you specifically asked for feedback on certain creative decisions. I therefore concluded, that you probably welcome feedback generally, and that's an attitude, I find very admirable and I like honing that. Being a creative myself, I like reflecting on what made a captivating experience such and what creative decisions might have contributed to it in what way. Glad I could be of service! Ahoy, over and out!
A similar incident occurred off of Los Angeles in 1989. The USS HOUSTON snagged a tow cable attached to the tug BARCONA, pulling it under and killing one of its sailors. The tug sank in 2,400 feet of water 10 miles southwest of Long Beach.
In all, not a bad retelling of the events that day. Waddle was a good guy, but he did sign us up for every shit duty and VIP cruise he could. With the boat being only five years since commissioning at the time, it was still considered shiny and new and better to show off than an outdated first flight LA boat, so we got tagged for a lot of those cruises. The whole point of the VIP cruises is to display the operational capabilities of a submarine to distinguished guests, so of course we did all the fun stuff. It really sucks for everyone involved that it had to lead to a freak accident.
I wouldn't call it a freak accident if you do an emergency ascent without doing your due diligence of checking if there's actually nothing around. It might have been unlikely, but it's not unexpected.
@@Operngeist1 Yeah, I wouldn't call it a freak accident either. They had so many chances to notice. Multiple people didn't follow procedure or ignored warning signs.
@@Operngeist1 Video wasn't needed if the sonarman had ears. He would have heard that noisy boat a long way off. And close in, the icemaker would have given it away.
As a US NAVY Veteran I am so saddened by this tragedy which was was so avoidable. Japanese people are some of the best people you will ever meet. My heart goes out to the victims families and this should have never happened. Unfortunately all too often, and I saw it with my own eyes, these officers get away with literal murder in this case. The US government never holds these officers accountable. I used to say, while serving, "Honor, Courage, Committment, E-5 and below." Meaning that credo only applies to the junior enlisted. Great video and I'm sorry for the losses of these fine people.
The CO did not bother to get a solid search at PD prior to the emergency surfacing evolution. So it wasn't the emergency deep. The maneuver for the emergency surfacing is common, done a few times per year by each sub, and the procedure is specific. You leave PD, go to 400ft and 15 knots and then emergency surface. There is no way you could not have seen the fishing boat if you had bothered to look. Criminal negligence.
Im still amazed that really close contacts like a big ship right in front dont immediately show up on sonar. Missing something miles away is one thing, but right in front?
I've been searching for stories of this ship the Ehime Maru for years now. I remember divers finding a student's digital camera with photos of him and his friends to be given to their families.
Respect for Commander Waddle for doing the face to face with the families' victims. It takes a man of true fortitude to stand up to that task and admit to mistake.
Freakin brilliant presentation mate! This was a riveting story I haven’t heard of before, which is rare on RUclips to come across something new in maritime disasters. Truly you are the best at explaining the story in a way that paints a vivid picture in my head. Looking forward to the next one, truly God bless you and yours my friend, liked and shared for what little it may help!
@@waterlinestories of course! Just speaking the truth, you deserve much affirmation that the incredible amount of research that goes into making this sort of content and doing it the right way certainly doesn’t go unnoticed and is much appreciated. Just a request more than anything but I’ve found people really are captivated by disasters in the baring sea like crab boats and such, the rescues that go with those stories are incredible I’d love to hear you tell a few of those! Just a thought, anything you make is worthy of the cliche “ babe wake up waterline stories just posted “ hahah. Looking forward to whatever you got in store for us !
Slightly pedantic: Japanese is a syllabic language, so when you read Romaji, pronounce all of the vowels regardless of English spelling conventions. Case in point: EHIME MARU is pronounced E•HE•MAY MA•RU (pronouncing r’s in Japanese is a whole different can of worms, but most Japanese people don’t mind if foreigners pronounce r the English way).
This is definitely one of my favorite channels. The amount of detail, usually including a visual aid, is so satisfying to my mechanically wired mind. Not trying to say I’m smart or anything, but I really enjoy the specifics of these machines, (and the detail of your cave exploring/diving videos) and the EXACT why&hows of how things went wrong. Thank you for your hard work Waterline Stories- you deserve whatever success you acquire on this platform
US military budget at that time was 330 billion dollars, that means they gave the victims and their families in compensation less than what they used in 30 minutes.
I’m a little confused as to why the Greenville’s rudder cut through the other ship, with no mention of the sub’s sail. Was the sub’s angle so steep that the sail missed the other ship?
Yeah it doesn’t make sense. Its coming up on an emergency surface maneuver which means its angle is extremely steep with the bow surfacing way ahead of the stern. The sub would of been halfway out of the water by the time the rudder made contact with the ship. The way its being described is that the bow hit and lifted the ship up.
yes. on an emergency blow the angle is pretty steep. The first impact was with the top of the hull just above the engine room. If they had waited one more second to blow the tanks, they would have missed completely.
The fact the ship company got the most compensation for an aging ship compared to the families is just something special. Definitely shows though submarines are still quite blind.
Feb 9 2001 9 miles south of Oahu, Hawaii. Nine of the thirty-five people aboard were killed: four high school students, two teachers, and three crew members.
Your sonar comments around 9:05 are likely very inaccurate as only in really rare circumstances does a submarine ping anything / uses active sonar as it will give the position of the sub away. 99.9% of the time the sonar is in passive / listen mode only. To be fair they may have been wanting to show off active sonar or also give extra safety in home waters so I don't know for sure.
They're actually two types of sonar that submarines use. One is what's called active sonar where the sonar blasts out an incredibly loud sound that will bounce off everything in the area and basically let everybody know where everyone is.... The submarine can do a active ping and 100% know where everything in the area is but everything in the area will also hear the ping and know right where the submarine is. The other type is passive sonar, basically just hydrophones rigged up to a computer to listen all around and automatically recognize any sounds in it's memory, like a super duper noisy Soviet nuclear submarine. Because of this is a passive type of sonar and you're just listening nobody else can hear you making any sound so it's the preferred and most stealthy type of sonar
In my days, about 50+ years ago, it was minus the computer. Also there are salt and temperature levels in the sea that can make a close ship sound like far away. I was a sonar operator on a sub that sunk and killed some sailors with it's periscope surfacing about 6 months before I came on board. The sailors that where there and still on board when I came wouldn't tell much about it. What I was told though was that just before they hit every body in the sub could hear the noise from the vessel but it was too late. 3 or 4 fishermen died.
One of the most important, and interesting aspects of this collision is understanding the exact angle, direction, and relative position, the sub was in, in relation to the surface vessel. And you left that as vague as an eight ball in a vat of black ink.
maybe to you ...i thought he did a good job with the story......if you want more detail i found this for you www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAB0501.pdf
The USS Greeneville had other unfortunate accidents during her career. From Wiki: "On 27 August 2001, Greeneville ran aground while entering port in Saipan on a routine Western Pacific deployment." "On 27 January 2002, less than a year after colliding with Ehime Maru and five months after running aground, Greeneville collided with USS Ogden (LPD-5) during a personnel transfer off the coast of Oman, opening a 5 by 18 inch (130 by 460 mm) hole in one of Ogden's fuel tanks and spilling several thousand gallons of fuel. After the collision, both vessels left the area under their own power." "The Advanced SEAL Delivery System (ASDS) was a midget submarine operated by the United States Navy and United States Special Operations Command. It provided stealthy submerged transportation for United States Navy SEALs from the decks of nuclear submarines. The ASDS was canceled in 2009 due to cost overruns and reliability issues, after the prototype was destroyed in a fire with the loss of the SEAL Team inside in 2008, while embarked on the USS Greeneville."
"Staunch Navy Pride, tasked with demonstrating Navy standards in proficiency, assurances are made, the funding is working out ....oh yeah, and some people lost their lives....Sir.."
glad the commander at least had the cajones to give some of them a face to face apology. im sure it was eating him alive, i couldnt imagine being responsible for such a tragedy
It sounds like one of the hardest things to have to do, but it sure could help the family members. In the long run, it might even help this commander to come to terms with the consequences of what he did
I served on three different submarines during my career. Small thing, but one thing those who serve on submarines do not like is being call a SUBmariner. The proper name is submarINER. On a more serious subject, sonar informs the OD of all contacts. This is done by intercom. There were no displays as mentioned in this program to provide the OD with a visual reinforcement at that time. It has been a while, but I believe that the only vessels who had collided with U.S. subs at that time were other subs. Subs do not use active sonar. To do that would give away their location. That would cause them to lose all benefits of being submerged. There are other accurate passive methods for determining target range such as "bottom bounce." The diving alarm is sounded only when diving from a "surfaced" condition.
First of all.. not every submariner cares how people pronounce it. I've heard arguments for both. And always from some over confident jack wagon. Secondly, and forgive me as it's been about 30 years, but I believe the diving alarm is sounded 3 times for an emergency surface. Preceded and followed by "SURFACE! SURFACE! SURFACE!" on the 1MC.
@@fasfan I suspect that my years of service in the silent service predates yours since it was from 29 December 1960 to January 13 1968, and it indeed was a big thing back then regardless of your supposition.
I really enjoy your channel and have been watching all of your videos, thank you for your time. Btw as someone that was a fire control technician on a sub in Hawaii I can say this was a great explanation of the tragedy.
![Shenseea - Dating Szn (Options) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eUePmZFIXUg/mqdefault.jpg)
I served on USS Greeneville briefly from November through December, 1999. As a non-qualified (in submarines) radioman I got to know many of the names mentioned in the video such as Commander Waddle, Lt.Cdr Pfeifer, and some of the other crew of the submarine. I admit I thought very highly of Captain Waddle. He was a very aggressive skipper, whom was yelled at by the USS John Stennis battle group admiral when our boat was labeled as “too aggressive” during our 1999 war game off San Diego when our boat absolutely embarrassed him and his CVSG. My first time meeting him he instantly recognized my Texas accent since he was from Austin.
If Captain Waddle had one major flaw it was lack of faith in his officers, as it was his tendency to rip the conn away from the officer of the deck when things were going badly (as the author mentioned he did just before the collision). He did this once while I was aboard during a coolant spill drill. When the WEPS made the mistake of sounding the power plant casualty alarm, he immediately took the conn and embarrassed WEPS in front of everyone.
Something missing from the video was the electronic warfare operator on watch (a personal friend of mine) told me that he reported a close contact. If Ehime Maru ran a standard surface search radar, then (per my experience) the radar would’ve been very loud over the conn speakers. My only guess is Captain Waddle knew he was behind schedule, and, upon sighting nothing, initiated the EMBT.
Thanks for adding this context. It's great to hear from someone closer to the story. 👌🏻
@@waterlinestories You’re welcome! I did find your video to be very good despite a few minor problems. I did read Captain Waddle’s book “The Right Thing” for some of the exposition. I remember that we attacked the USS John Stennis that morning at exactly 6:00:00 am local time once, as I was the electronic warfare operator. What did that mean? Greeneville shot a “water slug” (torpedo tube shot with no torpedo loaded) at the carrier at the exact moment we had permission to fire for the exercise. We also successfully sank the USS Asheville twice, the USS Jefferson City 8 times, and attacked the USS John Stennis 3 times. The simulation registered we hit the Stennis at least once. This is what I meant by we were “too aggressive.” I laugh at it because it showed either how good Greeneville was at sinking enemy warships and/or how bad the Stennis CSG was at anti-submarine operations.
One other story I have was an incident while we were in Esquimalt, Canada when some locals attacked some of my shipmates. We were out past curfew (midnight), so I called for a cab to get my drunk buddies back to the boat. All of us but one (me) were restricted to the submarine. Because some of my buddies personally vouched for my integrity, the Chief of the Boat (COB) did not restrict me to the boat. The same day, I learned I had been promoted, and Captain Waddle refused to give me the promotion. He said my own CO of my actual submarine, Commander Stacia of USS Cheyenne, deserved that honor instead. Captain Stacia would also congratulated me after Captain Waddle sent him a message.
@@brentgranger7856 Most interesting Brent - I enjoyed reading your addendum as much as I did watching The WaterLineStory!
As a land lubber currently as far away from the sea as it's possible to get in the United Kingdom - around 80 miles - can I ask:
Would that torpedo have sunk the CVN-74 in a real life non-wargame encounter? Thx.
@@brentgranger7856Awesome, thank you for this first person account! You add so much to this telling. Thank you for serving sir, I salute you! 🌹⚓
@@XXSkunkWorksXX If I may answer in place: A single torpedo doesn't sink a CV. They are quite tough.
But it may cause serious trouble like destroying/disabling one or several screws or one or both rudders.
Base line: having a modern heavy torpedo hit your CV is bad.
I'd just like to say I really appreciate the way you tell these stories, no unnecessary over top sense of drama or impending danger. Simple, straight and clear telling of each turn of events. Not only is it the most respectful to everyone involved, but it's also the best way to educate.
Thanks. I appreciate the comment
Exactly this - this is why I love this channel! Keep doing what you do :)
as an example 28:45 this is exactly the kind of seemingly minor detail that helps us laypersons know why an IRL sub isn't able to fetch people out of the water in 20 seconds like they can do in hollywood
Yes, so true. He tells the story once, and in detail. Makes it very interesting.
Yes. He’s an incredible narrator and story teller.
I'm not a sea faring chap, but it seems to me that filling your control room to its limit with non-Navy people chatting and getting in the way, while you're performing difficult combat manoeuvres, is a recipe for a terrible disaster.
Chap?
@@jeffdo9195 Queen's English word for bloke, guy, dude, gentleman etc.
@@jeffdo9195ignorant.
@@DanteTheAbyssalBeingthanks chap
Chap😂😂
I can’t understand how a modern US nuclear submarine does not spot a 200 foot ship in a less than one mile radius from their position, that is the most disturbing aspect of this accident.
He explained it pretty well, sonar struggles to look in the same direction you are currently traveling but excels at angles. So not giving priority to protocol kinda screws up the entire process.
You'd think they'd have created some other systems of detection besides sonar for redundancy?
@@coldpotatoes2556 as soon as the laws of physics change they will.
@@sd70calwell there's: 50/50, call a friend & ask an audience member.
@@coldpotatoes2556 You could do that but if they have any relevant knowledge in the this area they will tell you the same thing.
I spent many years on submarines working with VLF, video, HF, microwave, IR, microwave, UHF, and VHF systems, and many years as an instructor on some of those systems.
Besides sound, what other method of detection do you think would be effective for underwater use?
This was a command problem. As indicated by another poster on this thread this captain did not create a command structure that allowed for healthy bottom to top communication. Squadron and Group command bear some of the responsibility for not detecting and correcting a toxic command structure.
Excellent presentation of the 'e-hi-me' Maru accident, but one which neglects to mention some key failings of Cdr. Waddle and his crew which led to the accident.
I was hired by Fuji TV to interpret and translate for their journalists who were covering the board of inquiry. Many journalists from major news organizations were also there and we watched a direct feed of the inquiry at a remote location. The testimony and cross-examination of Cdr. Waddle and the crew was quite dramatic, as were the reactions of those Greenville officers who shared responsibility for the accident and whose careers were ruined as a result.
Ironically, according to navy regulations Greenville shouldn't even have given the VIP ride, as such ride-alongs were only permitted during scheduled training events. However, word came down from above that these VIPs were to be given a ride regardless. Thus, the tired crew were recalled from their well-earned time ashore to give a joy ride.Only on the last day of the inquiry did Waddle's excellent attorney (A Mr. Gittens, as I recall), dropped a clue as why this was and that he would be sure to bring this matter up if Cdr. Waddle were to be court-martialed. Apparently, some (or, many) of the VIPs were executives and family members)of oil companies that suppled the navy with petroleum products.
I hope that someday a movie or book will cover this tragedy more comprehensively......
Good background information to know. And I would have missed your input if I didn't stop watching this video for an overnight break and finished watching today, then finally read the comments.
Excellent information WE DON'T HEAR ABOUT. This goes on frequently in all branches of our military. I was expecting these were legislators on a VIP trip that weren't happy with Navy spending and delivery time on war ships.
The story becomes even more unpleasant when you learn who it was in the navy hierarchy that demanded the ride-along and why he had been relieved of his position in Japan.......
@@jiyushugi1085please do tell
@@snuffle2269 Good comments.Slightly related, is legislators have pressured spending when the Navy determined a project should be $hitcanned. (refurbished 2 ships cause the shipyard was in his district.)
The backlash to that was intense. I remember the public was incredibly upset and wanted a court martial.
So did many of who were in the USN as submariners. This actually mad many of very angry. If they did things properly this would of never happened.
@@aj.j5833 In one year The U.S.S. Cole incident, the Greenville and then the Naval EP-3E ARIES that the Chinese forced down. It was an odd year for the Navy.
@@top_gallantUS Navy is past it's prime. This commander wobbly waddle man is a prime example of arrogance and incompetence.
Emotional idiots. Shit happens. Not worth losing a sub commander for.
I'll be honest, after reading a bunch of MAIB reports for fatal incidents involving merchant ships, and the prosecutions for those, the lightness/absence of punishment is remarkable.
Then again, given thats a theme of US military personnel being reckless and killing foreign citizens, like the fighter jets that skewered a cable car in Italy, i don't know why I'm surprised.
Just kind of ridiculous to me, since this feels like it breaches a number of IMO collision regulations (at least if it were not naval, ive never had a need to look into that side of them)
23:45 - "all crammed in the control room packed together like kittens about to be drowned in a bathtub"
Personally I would have said packed together like sardines but erm, you do you I guess. 😄
Disclaimer: Please don't drown kittens
I thought that same thing. The audience here does not drown kittens in the bathtub.
"packed together like kittens (in a sack) about to be drowned in a bathtub." WS has a dark past?
@@gordonpeden6234 I was expecting the story to take a more sinister twist, but wasn't the one I was expecting.
It clearly worked as a metaphor as it caused some provocation and a reaction.
@@Me-zo8yc That's true. Hope it's not a new trend for WS.
"The Captain grabs the helm tightly in the storm like he's choking a defensless gopher..."
Thank you for those videos. I am literally as far from any transportation as can be. I am sitting in rural Syberia, making sure that people who want to waste their time watching cat videos can do so cheaply. Yet watching detailed technical analysis of various techno disasters has taught me greatly on the general principles of interactions between humans and systems, where most problems originate from. I'd not learn that from any book on systems thinking, and I've read some. This channel goes straight into the same folder as Mentour Pilot, Plainly Difficult, Defunctland, and Brick Immortar.
Anti Assad I'm hoping?
@@Shinzon23he said Siberia not Syria! 😂
👍🏻
Fun fact about Cats they like to meow
Hello from western NC, USA!
A perfect example of the 'holes in 'Swiss cheese' lining up to create this tragedy. The whole idea of distinguished visitors joy riding on a nuclear submarine is a bad idea, especially when pushing the submarine to the limit, with visitor crowded work areas hampering the crew. Obviously, an activity implemented by a bureaucrat that I'm sure was discontinued after the incident?
Thanks for your fantastic presentation. 👏
They should sell guest places, would be fun as f
The DVE definitely should have been discontinued, but shockingly it was not!
Maybe they've introduced all sorts of restrictions on extreme maneuvers, tight schedules, and cutting corners for the benefit of VIPs, but as long as the primary reason - the unnnecessary distractions - is allowed to persist, something like this will happen again some day.
@@ivarwind You sadly cannot separate the military from politics. They still could of taken two trips or removed the amount of people in the ship.
You must be a mentor pilot watcher
VIPs are often impatient and ignorant. Performing a good show must have a negative effect on safety, but a positive effect on the budget.
The captain of the sub actually wrote a book about this. He owned it, he even went to Japan and addressed the families of those killed. He was an honorable person that made a disastrous mistake.
And, he didn't 'own it.'
His decisions caused the accident. He is responsible.
He retires with his military pension and wrote a book. Oh.....but he had to apologize for his screw-up. He was show-boating and caused this disaster and loss of life. Wonder what he made off the book....?
I can't blame the captain of the sub everyone here is acting like it's the captains fault it's caused by faulty equipment not any fault of any crew sometimes accidents happen and sometimes accidents kill people it was no one's fault
@@sparkie5618 except it was the captains fault (as he is in charge of his crew).
He shouldn't have put so much pressure on his crew. If the crew had more breathing room they might have assessed the situation differently and been able to complete the proper procedures, reducing the chance of hitting the fishing vessle to almost 0.
When I was in tbe army Commander Waddle gave a talk at one of our "safety day" events. I think making himself relive the events publicly may have been a way of paying penance. He talked about the guilt and thoughts of suicide. Such a tragedy.
I knew him. Most arrogant SOB I ever met. That crap in the video about enlisted guys liking him is comple BS.
Sharing suicidal thoughts helps preventing suicide; in this case, it seems to convey the whole extent of feelings about guilt. Always listen carefully if someone mentions such thoughts and take them seriously, be open to talk about them, offer getting help
Unbelievably brash conduct on behalf of the commander and even some of the crew, it sounds like. What, ppl decided to abandon protocol cus they had a bunch of civvies on board? Yikes....
Giving talks is one way he earns money. Those talks are not free. He charges from $10,000 to $20,000 for an event. Don't believe this? Look it up on the internet. Maybe he gave the army a discount.
It is also a narcissist way of turning their failure into a vote of sympathy. If he is taking payments for these "penance forums" I wouldn't give his feelings of guilt much respect.
I served on the Greeneville earlier this year and I’m a Sonar Tech. Our systems have limitations. The Navy has been making great strides to improve the system. When a boat changes depth the display may can have some brief moments of blind spots or inaccurate data. Thinking about the old crappy systems and throwing the system affects into it, it’s not entirely surprising this happened.
There are a lot of physics and environmental effects that can impact the performance of these systems.
This accident could have been avoidable with less distracts of the guests on board, but we have new rules and regulations in place to prevent this after other accidents since this event as well.
If the boat's systems have limitations, then it wasn't a great idea to breach the surface at speed ... especially in busy coastal waters, and without thoroughly checking the surface with the periscope.
US Nuclear Submarine hits a German Cargo Ship in Nov 1972. on the US East Coast. The Weather was bad, the sea was rough and still the US submarine decided to a sneak attack exersice close to the surfase and shortly after 8 am hit the Ship MV " Hagen" from Hapag Lloyd. I was on that Ship on the Bridge at that moment. One Cargo Hold was flooded but otherwise we where ok. We went to Baltimore and our ship was put in a dry dock for repair.
I had never heard about this incident. Thanks for sharing.
@@kittichord Thank you for your feed back.
@@kittichord yes, the Press kept it is very low profile and only a small Artikel was printed in one of the local papers and the NY times. BUt one Radio Staion made us a bit famous. When we went to some Bars in the evening we were very welcome and myself, not 18 back them was allowed inside - so we could tell the stort FIRST Hand !!!!
In the early 90s, Waddle was the engineer on the Kentucky Gold crew. I was a newly reported ensign to the Blue crew, which was in its off-crew rotation (meaning the Gold crew had the sub and was preparing to take it out). So someone from my crew offered (ordered? I don't remember) to take me down to the boat to get my first look at it. So I did, and we're walking through the engine room, which was mostly empty, and we're in middle level, walking by one of the motor generators, and I see an electrician standing by it and two legs sticking out of it. The person who was escorting me peeked in, talked to the guy inside, and out popped Waddle, his hands absolutely black with dust from the MG set. My escort introduces me to him and he sticks his hand out to shake mine, and I instinctively look down at it, see it's covered in soot, he does the same, and apologizes for his dirty hand. I don't remember if I shook it or not.
And that's my Scott Waddle story.
Sounds like a good officer,
not scared to get his hands dirty.
My father was Captain of HM Submarine Talent in 1956,
and was lightly struck by a ship,
ending his career,
from RNC Dartmouth age 13 in 1936,
to First Lieutenant on HMS Torbay with a DSC
by 1945.
He married my mother,
became a farm manager in South Devon, England,
where he raised the best-tasting beef
on the planet.
He was a hard man to know,
probably as his late teens were spent at war,
but the ethos of Dartmouth
helped shape my life.
Even though I took to the army blood in my family,
I owe my existence
to a ship-submarine collision!
/
And you are sticking to it 😂
I served under CDR Waddle on the Gold crew on the 737. He was the ship's Engineer at the time. He was still being "built up" in those days, seeking and learning the valuable skills that would be required of him in the years to come, mostly from the senior enlisted (CPO's). Some years later I (and a fellow shipmate from the 737) bumped into him and had a great conversation and congratulated him on his selection to what I consider to be the most demanding position in the entire US military, Submarine Skipper.
My friend and I were shocked at the event that occurred some months later and convinced each other that we would never had let it occur because we knew Skippers require the forceful backup of their subordinates and put that principle into practice at all times.
I haven't finished watching this video nor have I read Mr. Waddle's book so please spare me the corrections already forming in the minds of some of you,
So I leave you with this: the fast attack Skipper is one of a kind and I had the good fortune to serve under some of the best, those who were well seasoned long before I raised my hand to be there with them. Had the Greeneville not had this encounter perhaps Mr. Waddle may have been counted among those "Seasoned" few.
@@bretfranklin2558 Scott and I were friends and classmates.
When an officer offers a handshake you take it to prove you're not a girl.
We invented soap and water.
I can't believe he wasn't court-martialed
He wasn't court-martialed because that would draw out & bring into prominence the fact that elites are abusing their positions of power in order to arrange joy rides on a capital military asset, at the expense of the taxpayers, & whose only proper use is in defense of the nation.
Especially to decide a sonar that hadn't worked for a year(?), was not needed, along with insufficient perpendicular travel to fix the ships locations, and, of course, not searching the entire horizon with the periscope.
He wasn't court marshaled because someone higher up ordered him to take these "VIP's" on an afternoon demonstration cruise. Cdr. Waddle surely would have disclosed who provided this command. Commanders do NOT take submarines out for a fun cruise out of their own volition. Someone higher up in the chain of command is responsible even if Cdr. Waddle was showing off and negligent in his duties. I agree that he should have been court marshaled, but so should some captains and some admirals. That's why he was just kicked out of the club.
The night before the accident we ate at the second-floor restaurant at Aloha Tower next to where boat was docked, and I watched the crew come and go as we ate. After the sinking I wondered how many of those boys were lost the next day, very sad
The so called accident was manslaughter
@@gowdsake7103yes, that’s the term we use when a killing is accidental…
@@berzoidberg3272 Not exactly, no - manslaughter is non-intentional. That's not the same as accidental.
Given the details in the video, if it is anywhere near correct, this was not accidental.
Skipping safety precautions to perform unnecessary extreme maneuvers just to impress distinguished guests on a tight schedule, is not something you do by accident. But it needs saying that the main responsibility lies with the people (higher up the command chain), who came up with the hare-brained idea of DVE to begin with, rather than the captain and crew who just happened to be the ones for whom all the holes lined up.
Same bro my dad's uncle was on that sub
@@ivarwind you’re confusing accidental with preventable. this is textbook manslaughter. similar to if you are street racing and hit a pedestrian. it was not done with malice or intent to harm, but due to negligence or any other means
The sonar subs use is almost always passive, they are locating surface ships be the sound of their engines and props. There are no pings.
Almost allways and surely in this case. Otherwise the distances would not have been uncertain.
True. The pinging sound effects are false.
as a former sonar technician on a submarine you are absolutely correct. Active sonar gives away your position instantly. A simple range formula called Ping Steal is used
Former Sonar Supervisor 688-594 and 637’s
Thank you for the comment.. I was going to do one myself until I read yours.
Same here, just from a different Navy.
Nothing good ever comes from rushing a job. The captain has total responsibility for this tragedy.
Oh my, this brings back memories. I actually worked in the ER at the hospital the students and crew were brought to on Oahu. My shift started at 7pm so I wasn't there for their initial arrival,, but I still vividly remember the whole department smelled like diesel fuel from the survivors. And I also remember being puzzled there were no Navy representatives there, even hours later, just Japanese Embassy(?), etc. officials. In retrospect I guess that makes sense, that the Navy was staying far away from the medical treatment while they figured out how the hell this happened,
And thanks for these details about what exactly happened in the accident, it was hard to get a lot of information back then.
Unfortunately the right thing to do legally can often feel like the callous thing to do morally. Legally, the Navy was right to stay away; if there had been Navy personnel there, that might be construed as trying to leverage the Japanese survivors in some way, regardless of intent. Similarly, apology=admission of guilt=never apologize is another sad collision of law and morality.
Adm Halsey is reputed to have said "You can go from being the best officer in the navy to being the worst officer in the navy in about 10 minutes."
And Halsey ran a fleet into two different typhoons resulting in the loss of multiple ships…
@@allangibson8494 damn 😅
In 2023 a friend of mine brought me to the see baptism, the i started looking videos about scuba diving and found your channel. I loved your content and also your PADI tutorial.
Now i'm advanced open water. Your passion and your narrative skills are part of the reason for my love for this.
THANKS❤
The commander is ALWAYS responsible.
As my father discovered in similar circumstances -
HMS Talent 1956.
And rightly so.
Command is a very lonely job.
/
The joyrides were intended to show the public the quality of the US Navy. Mission accomplished - they can't find their own ass with both hands!
well in the US govt's mind, the civilian vessel touched their sub which in turn justified appropriate proportional response.
@@harveylong5878 Really reassuring to know how they would be able to respond when enemy vessels start touching their subs
They really use a very silly way to decide which sub used for the joyrides. When I was in USN my command was selected 3 time because we had greatest operation record, but denied because we weren't "proper USN sailors", who drank to much and we didn't keep our uniform up to USN standards (we kept them the minimal standard required, more busy keeping our boat running and operationally ready. We got surged more then any other commands to cover for them, because we were always ready.). They picked other commands who, knew how to look good, but they were constantly in port, they couldn't keep anything running right and they kept breaking things, but they looked good doing it.
Perhaps, but it I’m sure they could locate your dumb ass with one hand behind their back.
@aj.j5833 that's very crazy
That one person that stayed back from the combat demonstrations due to sea sickness must have lost it when they started the angels and dangles lol
A very well-presented documentary. Thank you. I have been in a similar situation where 82 souls were lost to the sea. Listening to the commentary here, I believe a court marshall should have existed. It would have helped relatives of those who would never come home again. May they all RIP.
👌🏻
Spent 33 years in the US Navy before I retired as Master Chief Petty Officer served on Nimitz class and the George Bush Aircraft Carrier in charge of the Mess Galleys, I always hated guest tours and special invitees.
??? No ship sails without its stewards. Special meals mark the passage of time
This is the perfect argument for not taking war ships out for "joy rides." Especially not on nuclear subs!!! Not only an incident like this happening, but there are aspects of a subs capabilities that do not need to be seen by John Q Public. I'm good with not knowing how it all works as ling as it works to protect our interests.
You may want to consider doing a episode on the Australian navy Aircraft Carrier HMAS Melbourne which was involved in 2 major peace time accidents. One in 1964 then again in 1969, Both incidents involved collisions with other war ships which sank costing a considerable loss of life. From my memory both war ships that the HMAS Melbourne struck were split in half. The incidents were with HMAS voyager 1964.then the USS Frank Evans in 1969.
Your postings are always interesting and well researched. 👍
👍🏻
Hubris thy name is "We crashed a sub into a ship cause we didn't bother to double check anything"
The odds of this happening is astronomical, but clearly possible, and it was during a joyride, there was literally zero reason for them not taking the time to do things right :(
Excellent video! Your presentation style makes every topic easy to understand and engage with. Thank you
I can't believe Waddle was given a pass on this. I can understand why though. Had they found him guilty of anything, it would have been tacit admission that the US Navy screwed up and that would have brought a whole other ball of political wax. He not only should have been court martialed but indicted for criminally negligent homicide as well.
If one thing is obvious it is 'that the US Navy screwed up', no admission required for that.
it's Japanese American relations its complicated especially back then japan doesn't like the US being in their backyard the general Japanese xenophobia means they don't want the us there and do like dealing with them that being said the past 10 years has changed that as china has become a threat japan wants the US near but maybe stationed in the Philippines or Australia that all being said for jump street this was political and orders probably came down to sweep it under the rug and had it been any other country but japan it would have been sweep under the rug quietly as the us government would have just paid alot of cash to the families to go away
@@sqike001tondidn't it happen south of Hawaii?
Dude, they paid their way out. As money washes all guilt, "Laws and rules are only for the poor" takes effect.
So the taxpayer got punished for this? How about jail time for those guilty?
Yeah! You got a point!… I am a Navy Vet. We are always held accountable unless you’re a high ranking military officer, politician, or blue blood. They will always find a whipping boy, thats why the other officers went on admin leave while the submarines CO got to have an honorable discharge. Thats the inequality of the world.
After spending over 20 years in the military, I can say unequivocally that the officer corps defends their own. I'm not surprised the captain wasn't court martialed. I'm shocked they didn't pick out the lowest ranking member of the crew to put the blame on.
When I listen carefully the lower ranks got a relatively harsher treatment? They didn't get away with honorable discharge and early retirement.
amen.
They dont use active sonar , it gives away the position of the submarine.
There's no "pings"
Thats why the Captain wasnt worried about one of the displays not working , its a system they almost never use.
They only use passive sonar.
-They listen to the sound of the surface ship
-Then they determine what type of ship it is.
-Then they determine how fast the propellor is turning.
-From that they determine how much noise the surface contact should be making.
-Then they compare the volume of the noise they hear vs what it actually is
-Then they factor in sea conditions to get an estimate of the range of the surface contact.
They NEVER have a 100% accurate picture of whats going on around them.
They are basically walking blindfolded through the woods , they navigate the path completely through memory and dead reckoning while listening for threats and guessing how far away those threats are.
You know what else gives the subs position away? High speed maneuvers. Active sonar would've given them a better track on nearby targets.
How would they avoid to crash into a static obstacle which produces no sound?
@@minimal3734 Charts I guess normally but I do recall another US nuke boat ended up hitting a subsea mountain a while back.
@@minimal3734 By luck. It runs out some times.
That commander in his stupidity killed nine people trying to show off and showboat that's murder
well I could have certainly gone without the mental image of "kittens about to be drowned in a bathtub" lol
Me too, horrible.
Yeah, those poor kittens. Just awful.
@@piratedaveyjones1903 To heck with the humans! WHAT ABOUT THE IMAGINARY KITTENS.
@@colinmartin9797 Meow!!
This channel is so well done. Solid schedule and excellent content without the annoying crap others put in their videos.
👌🏻 thanks
Yes, this guy really puts in work! Every video is so well done, and he seamlessly gives us nautical terms and explains them. I feel like I've learned something. 🌹👍🏽💯
Outstanding story VERY well told. I was surface Navy back in the late '70's, early '80's. But a lot of what you mentioned applied to us as well. I remember this incident in the news. Very tragic. You fleshed out the story for me. What troubles me is it seems there was not one or two mistakes but a series of them. You NEVER assume anything; you always double check. Communication is life and it seems there was not enough of that by sonar or fire control. The mis-spoke contact number was just one example. Too many people in the way is not enough of an excuse not to update plot. OOD was not focused or completely aware. Despite the display being out, there were other options. Redundancy is there for a reason. And failing to make turns to improve contact solutions was a MAJOR flaw on his part. Being behind schedule is not an excuse. Everything still needs to be done according to the book and protocol. 9 dead is why. And in all this, it is ultimately the captain's responsibility. I am truly surprised this didn't go to court martial.
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I may have missed it. The Greenville would normally navigate inertially with the contacts plotted using passive sonar (listening not actively pinging). The angles and dangles would degrade the inertial navigation but land fixes (mountain and airport) should have been fed into the inertial navigation data on the OODs periscope sweep. You don’t mention surface sea conditions until well into the unfolding of events. The “sea state” plays an important role in detecting and maintaining tracts and can negatively impact passive detection and tracking of surface contacts (produced as “Sierra one zero, one one etc) and that is further degraded by high speed maneuvers.
I’m surprised that the Navy did not conduct a courts marshal. The Greenville conducted an emergency surface drill without basic range safety. That normally includes radar sweeps and use of the ESM antenna (providing line of barring information on surface contacts operating their radars) to ensure the range is clear of contacts. It sounds as if none of the normal steps for ensuring a safe and clear area before the emergency surface drill were conducted and that is negligence in the safe operation and command of Greenville.
One minor note. In the US Navy, submariner is pronounced sub-marine-er not sub-mariner - they get a little touchy about that.
There are two reason I can see for not having a court martial, reading your take on this:
1 - Waddle was (ostensibly) very popular, and he had friends in high places (a crew member? elsewhere talks about the frequent VIP tours)
2 - This was not the only time corners had been cut for VIP operations. A court martial after this public accident would have been a very public affair, and it might have come out that this neglect was normal during VIP tours.
I don’t think we are touchy about be called Sub-mariners at all!
@@subman721 When I was in surface ships, you would hear about 50/50 from us.....I always wondered.
@@subman721 hell no. Half of us say it the wrong way ourselves.
As a submariner myself, it always seemed to be the know-it-all annoying guys that cared how it was pronounced. I didn't care and neither did many others I served with. All that mattered was that we were submariners. Qualified in the best damn sub force and part of a long and storied lineage of steely eyed killers of the deep.
Submarines once! Submarines twice!
Former Coast Guard ST here..... A sub that's pinging is telling the wholeworld "here I am"! It also amazes me that almost every time
Hollywood or others making videos that portray radar or sonar use the ridiculous stock sound effect "ping". I guess they feel they are showing something only insiders would know to make themselves feel smart. I remember hearing USS Greenville sinking a Japanese school ship on the news and wondered WTF. Why would a sub be doing these maneuvers and then following it up with an emergency blow without the operating area being clear and friendly surface ship keeping a lookout for trespassers and keeping Greenville informed??? It's real easy to see with all the visitors in Greenville's control room how confusing it would be, we had visitors in sonar/ CIC on occasion and it is very distracting trying to concentrate and communicate. God rest the poor souls lost on Ehime Maru.
Lesson of the Day? Always always ALWAYS listen to the newbie. If the Lt Commander trusted the Junior sonar guy, none of this would have happened.
1) Submarines navigate with several technologies, primarily inertial navigation. Sonar is used to detect land masses & objects in the water. It cannot tell you where you are.
2) Ward room. Its Ward room. Not war room.
3) Subs have screws, not propellers.
Be quiet, squid!!
@@mistersniffer6838 I guess @Race is the naval equivalent of grammar police, when the general public doesn't care. (and I was a squid myself )
@@jamesconner3437 - Well, all in all, he IS correct, but, I digress, and am sticking to my guns!!
Also, it doesn't double as a place for officers to eat. That's what it's used for to begin with.
What type of screw, I'm guessing a wood screw 😂
LT Scott Waddle was the officer on my qual board who qualified me submarines on the USS KENTUCKY.
How on earth did they half ass so many procedures in a single attempt to show off? A truck driver makes one mistake and goes to jail
Excellent job putting this together so well. I really appreciate the final product. Very informative.
👍🏻 thanks
That sub captain should've been court-martialed.
What about the admiral or admirals, that ordered him to provide the joy ride, for those civilians? Shouldn't they also be punished ?
@@gingerbreadman6657 someone can place a firearm in another's hands with no intent or directions that it be used to harm anyone, the recipient is in charge of its direction of discharge (even without intent to harm, but reckless behavior, courts ask "what would a reasonable man do [ not forsake protocol or create hazardous environments one can avoid " ). The act is what determines the fact of the matter. Accountability is what this entire world avoids, that is the purpose of corporations, right. shielding individuals from responsibility for their harms. I am glad comments show he took responsibility. Forgiveness is what hopefully the families gave him. Nothing escapes the eye of the Lord, though. It is good he is out from "the war game". It all a feigned stage of undue influence that men will follow orders to kill their fellow man. War is business.
Incredible narration breaking down the technical aspects in easily absorbed language!
Heck ya!!! Two videos almost back to back!!! Always great knowledge for a mariner...
👌🏻
I only come across this channel randomly a week ago, but it's already become a go-to for this type of content. Thank you.
👍🏻 thanks, welcome aboard
Navy ships and subs have WARDROOMS, not "war rooms". 🙄
He also used waterline instead of surface several times.
Like kittens being drowned in a bathtub? Never heard that description before.
Yeah, that was the hollywood/theatrical drama line that should have been omitted
Frequently used in farming situations. When you have too many cats on the farm, you eliminate new arrivals.
These people had control of a submarine that can carry tactical nuclear weapons with 12 cruise missile tubes and is powered by a nuclear reactor. Competence seems to be something no longer considered. This accident was back in 2001 I hate to even think of the competence level of today's officer corps.
8z can can 6wAnd i'm not giving you any more till you get me some money. I can't afford to support your habit, but you need to call me dude. I'm already on the road. This is bullshit if you don't have my money. Now I'm pissed.
You need to answer your fuckin phone, billy4377 UT-224, Park City, UT 84098And i'm not giving you any more till you get me some money. I can't afford to support your habit, but you need to call me dude. I'm already on the road. This is bullshit if you don't have my money. Now I'm pissed.4377 UT-224, Park City, UT 84098Golf tomorrow? 2:10
You need to answer your fuckinAnd i'm not giving you any more till you get me some money. I can't afford to support your habit, but you need to call me dude. I'm already on the road. This is bullshit if you don't have my money. Now I'm pissed.
You need to answer your fuckAnd i'm not giving you any more till you get me some money. I can't afford to support your habit, but you need to call me dude. I'm already on the road. This is bullshit if you don't have my money. Now I'm pissed.
You need to answer your fuckin phone, billyi4377 UT-224, Park City, UT 840984377 UT-224, Park City,Great, you're welcome! The office address is 2801 N Thanksgiving Way Suite 310, Lehi UT 84043.comeback 1 hour UT 84098n pGreat, you're welcome! The office address iingGreat, you're welcome! The office address is 2801 N
The USS Greenville is a fast attack submarine. While it has the capability to carry nuclear weapons, it is currently, and at the time, not the policy of the US Navy to put nuclear weapons on board fast attack submarines. However, I can neither confirm, nor deny the presence of said nuclear weapons on board the submarine.
In other words, you are confusing types and classes of submarines. You are confusing a ballistic missile submarine with a fast attack submarine.
Otherwise called a 688, Los Angeles Class Nuclear Attack Sub (SSN). I do like your objectivity on the subject matter of your videos, and you don't pretend to have any particular proficiency either. You've made another fan with a great respect for your work. Another great video! 👍
Thanks👍🏻
That fact that the sub was barely damaged: Absolutely amazing & really says something about just how incredibly tough nuclear submarines are built
Ah yes, a quick glance confirming nothing and assumptions about everyone being on point with a bunch of civilians on board is TOTALLY adequate when one is the captain of a nuclear attack sub.
Tens of thousands square miles of empty ocean all around and they still managed to ram a small ship when breaching. What are the odds.
I am tempted to ask you to elaborate on your vast knowledge of submarine operations, and wait to be astounded by the searing logic of your fiery intellect...
The oceans are vast but shipping routes are very busy ,in the middle of a ocean someone can expect a ship to pass by in 30 min, at any time of the day. For solo navigators or small boas ships are the biggest hazard there is , a small dot on horizon can run you over in 20 minutes .
@@rovidius2006 That's true. Hence why a professional sub commander should not breach his sub in a known shipping lane location.
I have been on this Japanese Boat when I was a Kid In Honolulu (early 70's). They have/had visitation days, etc..They frequently docked in Honolulu Harbor as I recall. My dad was invited on these Sub cruises all the time when we lived in Honolulu. This was, of course, tragic.
What a comprehensive, sobering, well-documented and detailed explanation of the sub crashing into and slicing thru the Japanese educational and training student fishing vessel. Such a terrible and avoidable tragedy.
To the families who experienced such tremendous loss, I hope that their memories may be a blessing and comfort, especially through the most difficult times.😔
Viewer's logbook:
watch experience debief:
-Don't know, how I like those video editing transitions. Idk, maybe shorten the noise/fuzzy effect?
Otherwise superb video:
+++great script:
+All my questions were answered almost immediately as they came up (like: whose job is it to track traffic? what's the updated data the fire control station has on c13? whats the position/depth of the sub after the crash?...). I wasn't left wondering how or why.
+I felt like having a very good overview of the sequence of events. I especially liked, that there was no gap in regards to the subs course/maneuvers!
+I did not feel disoriented, as in, the information given was never too much to process.
+perfect pacing. Never felt rushed, never felt bored.
+gripping writing. Starting with the bang and then jumping from the beginning, giving technical details as they became relevant - the suspense kept me deeply hooked. I have adhd and easily drift off, but not here.
+++great editing:
+I appreciate it very much when numbers are shown in text when they come up. Times, speeds, course, etc..
+the graphics of the layout of the bridge and the occupants, together with the clips of the folks on board, really gave me a sense of how it must've been there and it especially gave me a sense of plausibility, as to the mistakes that were made.
+the faces or representation of given crew members really helps me following along. I am quick to overhear a word and miss, who is doing/saying whatever, but this way, I register whose actions are being described.
+nice balance between narrator, graphics, b-roll
+audio was and level. I could understand every word.
Comments on subject:
What a crazy story! I am surprised, I hadn't heard of it before. I guess, military crew should learn a bit of commercial piloting's Crew Resource Management and never feel, like they can't speak up.
Time: 18:12:24 UTC
Location: confidential
Wow that's actually really useful. Thanks for taking the time to debrief.
@@waterlinestories :)
In a community post in the past, you specifically asked for feedback on certain creative decisions. I therefore concluded, that you probably welcome feedback generally, and that's an attitude, I find very admirable and I like honing that.
Being a creative myself, I like reflecting on what made a captivating experience such and what creative decisions might have contributed to it in what way.
Glad I could be of service!
Ahoy, over and out!
A similar incident occurred off of Los Angeles in 1989. The USS HOUSTON snagged a tow cable attached to the tug BARCONA, pulling it under and killing one of its sailors. The tug sank in 2,400 feet of water 10 miles southwest of Long Beach.
In all, not a bad retelling of the events that day. Waddle was a good guy, but he did sign us up for every shit duty and VIP cruise he could. With the boat being only five years since commissioning at the time, it was still considered shiny and new and better to show off than an outdated first flight LA boat, so we got tagged for a lot of those cruises. The whole point of the VIP cruises is to display the operational capabilities of a submarine to distinguished guests, so of course we did all the fun stuff. It really sucks for everyone involved that it had to lead to a freak accident.
As an old sailor, I got that feeling about Waddel. Like maybe he was looking to spread his wings after his Navy career.
I wouldn't call it a freak accident if you do an emergency ascent without doing your due diligence of checking if there's actually nothing around. It might have been unlikely, but it's not unexpected.
@@Operngeist1 Yeah, I wouldn't call it a freak accident either. They had so many chances to notice. Multiple people didn't follow procedure or ignored warning signs.
To call it a freak accident, minimizes what was a preventable tragedy.
@@Operngeist1 Video wasn't needed if the sonarman had ears. He would have heard that noisy boat a long way off. And close in, the icemaker would have given it away.
As a US NAVY Veteran I am so saddened by this tragedy which was was so avoidable. Japanese people are some of the best people you will ever meet. My heart goes out to the victims families and this should have never happened. Unfortunately all too often, and I saw it with my own eyes, these officers get away with literal murder in this case. The US government never holds these officers accountable. I used to say, while serving, "Honor, Courage, Committment, E-5 and below." Meaning that credo only applies to the junior enlisted. Great video and I'm sorry for the losses of these fine people.
the captain should face charges..too arrogant and a show off ,,ignoring all safety procedures..very shameful
Crazy enough a survivor from this would just 8 months later survive the 9/11 attacks
The CO did not bother to get a solid search at PD prior to the emergency surfacing evolution. So it wasn't the emergency deep. The maneuver for the emergency surfacing is common, done a few times per year by each sub, and the procedure is specific. You leave PD, go to 400ft and 15 knots and then emergency surface. There is no way you could not have seen the fishing boat if you had bothered to look. Criminal negligence.
I served on USS Boston for three years and knew CDR Waddle very well while we were at the Naval Academy. My condolences for the lives lost.
Reads like a script from airplane: Capn Waddel: "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue"
As you live in public housing?
@@ricksmith4736 Worse - i live in a car
@@tonymiller225it happens, man. Keep your head up and work hard. You'll be ok
Best commentary iv'e listened to and the background audio used to best effect .Even less background audio would have worked!
Very well done !
Thanks for the feedback. 👍🏻😀
I have a vague memory of a sub out of Bangor broke up a sailboat in the straight of Juan de Fuca.
As a nuclear sub sailor, this was a well done video explaining the deadly event.
Thanks I appreciate that
Im still amazed that really close contacts like a big ship right in front dont immediately show up on sonar. Missing something miles away is one thing, but right in front?
Little slow for my flavor....... melo drama kinda cringe......
I've been searching for stories of this ship the Ehime Maru for years now. I remember divers finding a student's digital camera with photos of him and his friends to be given to their families.
Oh geez
Respect for Commander Waddle for doing the face to face with the families' victims. It takes a man of true fortitude to stand up to that task and admit to mistake.
Freakin brilliant presentation mate! This was a riveting story I haven’t heard of before, which is rare on RUclips to come across something new in maritime disasters. Truly you are the best at explaining the story in a way that paints a vivid picture in my head. Looking forward to the next one, truly God bless you and yours my friend, liked and shared for what little it may help!
Thanks mate, I really appreciate that👌🏻
@@waterlinestories of course! Just speaking the truth, you deserve much affirmation that the incredible amount of research that goes into making this sort of content and doing it the right way certainly doesn’t go unnoticed and is much appreciated. Just a request more than anything but I’ve found people really are captivated by disasters in the baring sea like crab boats and such, the rescues that go with those stories are incredible I’d love to hear you tell a few of those! Just a thought, anything you make is worthy of the cliche “ babe wake up waterline stories just posted “ hahah. Looking forward to whatever you got in store for us !
The season finale of Whale Wars was friggin' amazing. Those guys really picked up their game
So, Waddle cost me 80 million dollars, and walked away with a honorable discharge, ehy? WTF!?
Slightly pedantic: Japanese is a syllabic language, so when you read Romaji, pronounce all of the vowels regardless of English spelling conventions.
Case in point: EHIME MARU is pronounced E•HE•MAY MA•RU (pronouncing r’s in Japanese is a whole different can of worms, but most Japanese people don’t mind if foreigners pronounce r the English way).
Kind of don't have a choice since barbarians aren't capable of making the proper hybrid r/l sound.
All that technology right in their faces and the manpower to monitor redundantly.....and yet........ imagine them under a fleet or an armada.
Someone has to get fired
It is a lot easier to miss one small ship than it is to miss a fleet...
@@raven-dq6ox
you miss my point
@@raven-dq6ox It only takes a small ship to sink you. It only takes a bunch of Houtis to parallelize the western Red Sea fleet.
Har to focus when your main concern is to entertain oil billionaires
This is definitely one of my favorite channels. The amount of detail, usually including a visual aid, is so satisfying to my mechanically wired mind. Not trying to say I’m smart or anything, but I really enjoy the specifics of these machines, (and the detail of your cave exploring/diving videos) and the EXACT why&hows of how things went wrong. Thank you for your hard work Waterline Stories- you deserve whatever success you acquire on this platform
👌🏻 thanks. That's very kind of you to say
US military budget at that time was 330 billion dollars, that means they gave the victims and their families in compensation less than what they used in 30 minutes.
Anytime the Captain of anything says “watch this” it’s time to buckle in and pray.
It's the WARD room where the officers eat, not the "war room".
I heard ‘wardroom’ but maybe because I expected that title 🤷♂️.
@@johnnunn8688 Me too, I heard wardroom.
I came to add this. Thought “no, he must have just slurred wardroom” but sounds clearly like “war room”
"you guys can't eat in here, this is the war room!"
Your hearing must be bad
He clearly says war room. Said twice , in close succession, and both clearly stated war room
For some unknown reason I find it funny that the captain of the sub was "Waddle" 😂
I’m a little confused as to why the Greenville’s rudder cut through the other ship, with no mention of the sub’s sail. Was the sub’s angle so steep that the sail missed the other ship?
Timing. The sail missed, but the tail did not. It was like two cars that sideswipe one another. The front part missed, but the rear got 'em.
Yeah it doesn’t make sense. Its coming up on an emergency surface maneuver which means its angle is extremely steep with the bow surfacing way ahead of the stern. The sub would of been halfway out of the water by the time the rudder made contact with the ship. The way its being described is that the bow hit and lifted the ship up.
yes. on an emergency blow the angle is pretty steep. The first impact was with the top of the hull just above the engine room. If they had waited one more second to blow the tanks, they would have missed completely.
@@TroyBierkortte ............ Karma!
@@zen4menfor?
The fact the ship company got the most compensation for an aging ship compared to the families is just something special.
Definitely shows though submarines are still quite blind.
Feb 9 2001 9 miles south of Oahu, Hawaii. Nine of the thirty-five people aboard were killed: four high school students, two teachers, and three crew members.
If I had been in that ship when it got hit, my immediate thoughts would have been
1.Kraken 2.Megaladon 3.Submarine
In that order
Thank you for your continued work on this channel. It's a lovely start to my saturday!
👍🏻
Your sonar comments around 9:05 are likely very inaccurate as only in really rare circumstances does a submarine ping anything / uses active sonar as it will give the position of the sub away. 99.9% of the time the sonar is in passive / listen mode only. To be fair they may have been wanting to show off active sonar or also give extra safety in home waters so I don't know for sure.
I felt like I was on the sub. I felt like I was part of the crew. Amazing story telling my friend. Respectfully done
They're actually two types of sonar that submarines use. One is what's called active sonar where the sonar blasts out an incredibly loud sound that will bounce off everything in the area and basically let everybody know where everyone is.... The submarine can do a active ping and 100% know where everything in the area is but everything in the area will also hear the ping and know right where the submarine is.
The other type is passive sonar, basically just hydrophones rigged up to a computer to listen all around and automatically recognize any sounds in it's memory, like a super duper noisy Soviet nuclear submarine. Because of this is a passive type of sonar and you're just listening nobody else can hear you making any sound so it's the preferred and most stealthy type of sonar
In my days, about 50+ years ago, it was minus the computer. Also there are salt and temperature levels in the sea that can make a close ship sound like far away. I was a sonar operator on a sub that sunk and killed some sailors with it's periscope surfacing about 6 months before I came on board. The sailors that where there and still on board when I came wouldn't tell much about it. What I was told though was that just before they hit every body in the sub could hear the noise from the vessel but it was too late. 3 or 4 fishermen died.
One of the most important, and interesting aspects of this collision is understanding the exact angle, direction, and relative position, the sub was in, in relation to the surface vessel. And you left that as vague as an eight ball in a vat of black ink.
Go ahead and clear it up there pal... I mean, obviously you're an expert.
maybe to you ...i thought he did a good job with the story......if you want more detail i found this for you www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAB0501.pdf
I doubt that he could even find out that information; it's likely to be classified.
Thank you very much very detailed explanation of events.
👍🏻
The USS Greeneville had other unfortunate accidents during her career. From Wiki:
"On 27 August 2001, Greeneville ran aground while entering port in Saipan on a routine Western Pacific deployment."
"On 27 January 2002, less than a year after colliding with Ehime Maru and five months after running aground, Greeneville collided with USS Ogden (LPD-5) during a personnel transfer off the coast of Oman, opening a 5 by 18 inch (130 by 460 mm) hole in one of Ogden's fuel tanks and spilling several thousand gallons of fuel. After the collision, both vessels left the area under their own power."
"The Advanced SEAL Delivery System (ASDS) was a midget submarine operated by the United States Navy and United States Special Operations Command. It provided stealthy submerged transportation for United States Navy SEALs from the decks of nuclear submarines. The ASDS was canceled in 2009 due to cost overruns and reliability issues, after the prototype was destroyed in a fire with the loss of the SEAL Team inside in 2008, while embarked on the USS Greeneville."
Oh my god! That last is horrific.
"Staunch Navy Pride, tasked with demonstrating Navy standards in proficiency, assurances are made, the funding is working out ....oh yeah, and some people lost their lives....Sir.."
glad the commander at least had the cajones to give some of them a face to face apology. im sure it was eating him alive, i couldnt imagine being responsible for such a tragedy
It sounds like one of the hardest things to have to do, but it sure could help the family members. In the long run, it might even help this commander to come to terms with the consequences of what he did
He should have been Court martial!
One thing that ceases to amaze me is that, as vast as the ocean is, ships still collide with each other
Karma!
I served on three different submarines during my career. Small thing, but one thing those who serve on submarines do not like is being call a SUBmariner. The proper name is submarINER. On a more serious subject, sonar informs the OD of all contacts. This is done by intercom. There were no displays as mentioned in this program to provide the OD with a visual reinforcement at that time. It has been a while, but I believe that the only vessels who had collided with U.S. subs at that time were other subs.
Subs do not use active sonar. To do that would give away their location. That would cause them to lose all benefits of being submerged. There are other accurate passive methods for determining target range such as "bottom bounce."
The diving alarm is sounded only when diving from a "surfaced" condition.
First of all.. not every submariner cares how people pronounce it. I've heard arguments for both. And always from some over confident jack wagon.
Secondly, and forgive me as it's been about 30 years, but I believe the diving alarm is sounded 3 times for an emergency surface. Preceded and followed by "SURFACE! SURFACE! SURFACE!" on the 1MC.
@@fasfan I suspect that my years of service in the silent service predates yours since it was from 29 December 1960 to January 13 1968, and it indeed was a big thing back then regardless of your supposition.
@@kentwilliams3326 You are indeed older than me. And more might have cared back then, but I still Don't think they all cared.
As a former member of the US Navy, "qualified senior officer" differs a *lot* person to person. I guess in this case your nautical mileage may vary.
I was in the Army, stationed at Schofield Barracks when this happened. I knew a guy on that sub. So sad
I really enjoy your channel and have been watching all of your videos, thank you for your time. Btw as someone that was a fire control technician on a sub in Hawaii I can say this was a great explanation of the tragedy.