Muslim Convinces Christian, Jew, Atheist That Slavery Is Moral
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- #Islam #Haqiqatjou #muslimskeptic
Many religions and cultures historically practiced slavery, including Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc. Is slavery always evil? A Muslim discusses this moral and historical issue with three people: a Christian (Kim Iverson), a Jew (Greg Magarshak), and an Atheist (Apuss).
MuslimSkeptic:
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Daniel Haqiqatjou:
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To all the commenters saying "you forgot to mention...!" Please post the videos where you used these same old tired apologetics to convince a fairly intelligent, educated non-Muslim that owning another human being can sometimes be morally acceptable. Go ahead. Then i'll take you seriously. 🥱
Thanks for clearing it up you really are a gem when it comes to debate who understands how argument works
Daniel ... we have a problem
Kur'an teaches to help people to buy of from slavery , interest rates economy is forbidden ....Islam is against nacionalism and racism .
But you are just talking 4 the talk.
Islam is not teaching to inslave the world ....4 security or something else .
Your standpoints here are problematic ????*
@@aldindurakovic8828 I dont think you watched the video
@@mastermonke2413 yes I did ....
Daniel should be more careful , when
talking about Islam and the ideals of our Faith 😑😑😑😑🕌🕌🌘🌘🌘⭐
@@aldindurakovic8828 then you don't understand English
Moral subjectivity cannot overpower objective morality no matter what the subject is. alhamdullilah for islam.
Ironically most Muslims present Islam as subjective morality
“We Muslims do”
“Us Muslims think”
Aynen kardesim.
Fax my brother! Spit the truth indeed!
given that muhammad took slaves and that muslims operated one of the largest slave trades in human history......i guess you think it's objectively good to own slaves.
Aynen Oyle
The slavery done by Muslims and the slavery done by European colonists are completely different. In Islam, slaves have rights and can earn their way out of slavery. With European slavery, forget about rights, slaves are considered property and treated like dogs.
First, slavery is just immoral; so, thanks for admitting it's permitted under Islam. Second, that's not remotely true. Muslims operated one of the largest slave trades in history that only ended in the 20th century. Those slaves didn't have rights....
Yeah, he should’ve added that
😂😅
That is a Jewish servant law and not a Islamic.
Islam treated slaves as property too. They were literally bought and sold as property. Lol you even listed humans being "property" of each other as a BAD thing. You just presented what is essentially a lesser evil argument, which is a weak defense of my holy religion. Islam doesn't need apologetics (like you or Daniel) making up your own reasonings to do PR work and try to justify to nonbelievers what Allah deemed permissible.
@@heregoes8839no they are captives of war and it isn't lesser evil cuz it isn't evil
Just looking at Apuss makes me sick
yeah he has that vomit inducing vibe due to his demeanor and the venom that he spits. Also, ofc this much ignorance and vile thinking/ acts have an affect on your looks.
His face makes you want to throw up he is not ugly this is not the case I don't know why but when I look to his face latterly feel sick and I was thinking I'm the only person who feel this
😆🤝🏻
@@Muslim_1357 Its a face that does not relate to Islam, no beard, too much shirk and pork does something to your face I guess, at least subjectively. I share the same feeling. Also, we know him, so probably your hate is translated psychologically on his facial features in a subjective way.
Alhumdulillaah
Apus looks like a kid who thinks he can play with grown ups and doesn’t realize how bad he is
@user-bx3sx9gt8b who's Ali Sina btw?
@user-bx3sx9gt8b Ex-muslim movement? I am also unfamiliar with this and I'm curious about his current religion or is he an Atheist now?
@user-bx3sx9gt8b so he's half Xtian for now?
What dose that even mean? Is that just a roundabout way of calling him ugly?
Free Bangladesh 🇧🇩
No one cares
Yes, we do.
❤❤❤
The problem is that most people think of treating a person very badly because of their skin color when they hear "slavery", that has actually zero to do with islam
Western slavery was brutal and this also reflects their culture and society and the fact that they can't comprehend an alternative, humane slavery that treats slaves better than your average US homeless veteran.
@@mohamudahmed6554 "Humane slavery." Hilarious. So I guess there's lots of people throughout history volunteering to be slaves.
@@drmodestoesq Considering your history with slaves and your current record with war prisoners, it's not a suprise that being humane to any of these two is a laughabe thing to you. After all, they're either just slaves or the enemy, right?
Also, your comment is incoherent, treating enslaved prisoners of war well ≠ wanting to be slaves or not. Try to make sense next time.
@@mohamudahmed6554 My tribe has no history with slaves or no current history with war prisoners.
But nice try.
@@drmodestoesq Tribe? 🤣 They probably do if you even know your tribe, but hey, what ever makes you feel more liberal.
Daniel is not afraid to speak the truth.
That slavery is morally acceptable? That's his truth. He's welcome to it.
@MuslimSkeptic. Please check the clauses of PoW in Geneva convention. Slavery is still legal in 2024 even in liberal regime (the kind of slavery Daniel is talking about). They just call it by a different name. According to the Geneva convention these PoW can be employed by even private employers (it's forced labor - exactly the same as slavery)
Thank you. You're the only one who understands.
Brother Daniel, with all due respect, I enjoy your content and have nothing but good intentions with this comment, but the way you frame these types of arguments is wrong. Yes, Islamic slavery is halal, but we need to understand that when a non-believer (or even a Muslim) hears/read "slavery", the immediate picture that pops up in their heads is the trans-Atlantic slave trade. They are not thinking of the Islamic version of slavery, but the Western slavery. Knowing that that is the picture in their mind, one has to first clarify that those 2 types of slavery are nowhere close to one another. When giving dawah we need to try to give least amount of ammunition for the islamophobes who are seeking ways to taint the image of Muslims, so making sure that this topic is not misrepresented is a part of it. JazakAllahu khairan.
Daniel the khareji feeds on inflammation and controversy
@@asfiraihan2073 i don't condone these kinds of accusations, although I might disagree with him on some points. Fear Allah brother.
maybe watch his full videos before commenting?
@@haroon4330 I am referring to the title of the video, as well as instances where when he is asked whether slavery, "child marriage" are allowed in Islam he says 'yes' without addressing what the questioner means by those words vs what the Islamic opinion is.
@@haroon4330Exactly watch the full video he mentioned this
I am begining to like the unapologetic approach as my knowledge increases. Even the christians can make christianity look valid to a layman using apologetic attitude, not that it is actually working :)
Slavery existed a very very long time before the prophet Muhammad pbuh
The penalty for many sins is to free a slave in Islam. So yeah, even though slavery was prevalent, I don’t think Islam encouraged it or promoted it. It’s more a byproduct of the times or out of necessity.
Trans-Saharan slave trade was operated from the 7th century to the 20th century. So yeah......Islam encouraged & promoted slavery
objective morality is not possible without God. Bless brother Daniel for his sure footing and courage
So slay-very is moral objectively? 😂 Just bcoz your Allah permitted it? Then why don't u guys practice it today? Afraid of UN and other countries? 😂
@@AmicableAgnosticdid you listen to the video
@@AmicableAgnosticBecause there's no need to do it anymore. Back then, there's no institution for captivity of large amounts of people and manpower for that aka Prisons. It's also economically inefficient to imprison that many people while caring for them and all they do is sit around. Islam makes it so that prisoners of war have something to do like buying their freedom while keeping their rights as human beings.
Don't mix Islamic slavery vs the common treating slaves as property.
@@AmicableAgnosticNot practicing.. There's not war happening. Let's make you a slave when that happens.
@@salahdinesidi8291
I did. Did you?
Daniel, your responses are all successful, but why did you not tell the Jew the rights of slaves in Islam?
(They wear what you wear and eat what you eat, and do not burden them with what they cannot bear.)
Because throughout the meeting, he was demonstrating that his religion was more humane or more progressive, and also when he used the sword verse to attack Islam in the meeting, the context of the verse was not mentioned to him, and that the verse was directed to the infidels of Quraysh only.
I wasn't aware that they've got those details in Judaism had these rights for slaves ty for informing us
Watch the whole discussion for those details. It was over 4 hrs.
@@picklerick4233 The details and rights for slaves he mentioned are from Islam.
@@picklerick4233huh?
@@ashj5952 oh sorry I misread the comment then , ty for clarification
The ending clip is hilarious 😂😂😂😂.
not apus
Хвала Аллаху, Господу миров!
❤❤❤❤❤
Thanks!
daniel haqiqatjou is the goat.
yessir
Brother reaches 1 million views and is already back at it with such a based video. Masha Allah.
what is this one million views about? i am sure bro Daniel has amassed more than one million views.
@@hellinkiller on the haqiqatshow
@@redwan_lmati oh
muslim-"muslim slavery wasn't like the western slavery"
non-muslim-"would you be my slave in a muslim way?"
Daniel you forgot to mention that every time the word slave in mentioned in the Quran is associated with the Command "Liberate" him/her as one of the best deeds to earn eternal paradise and Islam eliminated slavery in a short time .
Yes . When we end interest rates economy , there will be no economic slaves ....😑😑😑😑😑
All the Best from Bosnia ⚔⭐🌙🕌
What are you talking about, if slave becomes Muslim yes but if they are still none Muslim and you let them go they will go and join the enemy in order to defeat you. So even now what do any civilisation do when they capture an enemy combatant, he gets lock up and used as political tool, to free your own soldiers captured.
@@khaderlander2429 these are soldiers of war not slaves every day
Daniel must be clear about Islamic ideals .... and not mix his talk
i don't think we can say Islam eliminated slavery, or even meant to do that, if Allah swt wanted to end it He would have commended that, I mean alcohol is a bigger issue and more important to most societies, yet it was prohibited.
I don't think Daniel is for slaves liberation. I think he believes slavery would evnetually return and it is for the good. So yeah he is for slavery not against it.
Good job bro Daniel
Best explanation in English I’ve heard Daniel 👍
الآية 17 من سورة surah Al-Maidah
﴿لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ ۚ قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئًا إِنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُهْلِكَ الْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَأُمَّهُ وَمَن فِي الْأَرْضِ جَمِيعًا ۗ وَلِلَّهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا ۚ يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَاءُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ﴾
[ المائدة: 17]
Sahih International - صحيح انترناشونال
They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.
❤❤❤I lovveee these verses from surah Mai'dah❤
He's taking about a specific type of slavery ie POW/ PRISONERS OF WARS only.
That is the problem I find with Daniel's approach. He tends to be too vague and direct, which can easily be misunderstood
@@abumansaray7 not going to lie. I was following along with Daniel in his talks about slavery being moral and such, until he got to the part about mentioning the South vs the North arguments on slavery in America. Slaves very much didn't have rights then and were considered less then a human in America during that time. I felt he didn't really communicate that part well..
@@888ccg6 he literally mentionned that tho, not a single lie in this video and i fact check everything he says, pretty solide dud tbh
@@mordecake6344 I actually had to re listen to him one more time and realized he was actually talking about an example and not that he agreed with the argument the south tried to make against the Northerners. Never mind. I was wrong.
He's talking from a Muslim POV, in Islam it's only allowed to take slaves in war context.
free free Palestine 🇵🇸
7:08 about wage slavery in the USA. There were factories and companies in the USA that did not pay their employees in money. They paid them in factory coupons. And they could trade these for food & stuff in the company's own stores. 'Company stores' they were called. Found in company towns. People did work themselves to death for crumbs. They got into debts at these expensive food stores so they couldnt repay & therfore were forced to stay at the company until they died.
(This was all hapening recently, even after ww2)
There is even a famous black& white music video about such a wage slave. He sings about not wanting to die because he still has a debt to the company store. And he works himself to death daily.
If you have a source for this that'd be great.
A lot of the social issues can easily be resolved if Muslims stop religiously adhering to the British Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 (came into force 1834) which became the international prohibition on slavery, either adopted willingly like Portugal/Spain did in exchange for compensation schemes or the 45+ treaties signed with local chieftains to stop "slavery at source", or unwillingly in that case the Royal Navy squadron patrolling the oceans for 62 years (from 1808 to 1870) ensured compliance, even France and America eventually acquiesced especially when their ships entered British waters hence why President Lincoln signed a secret treaty allowing the British to intercept American slave ships.
Here the question must be asked: Why do Muslims have to follow the Sunnah of Britain which makes what Allah didn't make Haram, Haram? Moreover most of the debates that eventually led to the abolishment of slavery were led by Christian campaigners, like William Murray, Granville Sharp, Thomas Clarkson, William Wilberforce etc. this became such a major issue especially in Muslim countries like Egypt that Britain's war on the slave trade internationally became known as the "British Crusade".
Egypt became the launchpad to enforce Britain's Sunnah of abolishing the slavery, first by camouflaging arguments against slave trade made by Christians in Britain in a Muslim friendly language, to hide the origin and rationale for the prohibition. Second, by institutionalizing this rationale in educational curricula especially for prospective clerics, educators, politicians etc. Lastly, by amplifying the voices of those who had swallowed, hook, line and sinker the Anti-Slavery poison pill.
This led to our current predicament, listen carefully to any Muslim who says he is against slavery, you will without fail find that the reasons he/she gives can easily be traced back to the reasons given by the "British Crusaders". It has become so bad, that even the notion of "Milk al-Yamin" is abhorred for no reason rooted in scripture. The most common objection is they say: "You can only have Milk al-Yamin as captives of war" this is one of the most dishonest statements, that has led to countless social ills, which is why there is NO WHERE IN THE QURAN/SUNNAH/SIRAH to support such a lie, on the contrary there is plenty of evidence to justify multiple ways you can have a Milk al-Yamin. The legacy of Christian Colonialism has so infected countless Muslim minds that they share the same Lizard Mentality in the same Lizard Hole.
I think there is plenty evidence , that Islam is not promoting slavery , when people can take care of themselves in a righteous society without interest rates economy ????
Why promote slaves of any kind ????
Social justice and Brotherhood of Ummah 🗺⚔is better , right ???
There is a difference between "promoting slavery" and "prohibiting slavery" the Prophet (PBUH) bought, sold, freed and owned slaves, so did his wives and companions, are you more righteous than them?
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبَّادُ بْنُ لَيْثٍ، صَاحِبُ الْكَرَابِيسِيِّ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْمَجِيدِ بْنُ وَهْبٍ، قَالَ قَالَ لِي الْعَدَّاءُ بْنُ خَالِدِ بْنِ هَوْذَةَ أَلاَ نُقْرِئُكَ كِتَابًا كَتَبَهُ لِي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ . قَالَ قُلْتُ بَلَى . فَأَخْرَجَ لِي كِتَابًا فَإِذَا فِيهِ " هَذَا مَا اشْتَرَى الْعَدَّاءُ بْنُ خَالِدِ بْنِ هَوْذَةَ مِنْ مُحَمَّدٍ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ اشْتَرَى مِنْهُ عَبْدًا أَوْ أَمَةً لاَ دَاءَ وَلاَ غَائِلَةَ وَلاَ خِبْثَةَ بَيْعَ الْمُسْلِمِ لِلْمُسْلِمِ " .
It was narrated that 'Abdul-Majid bin Wahb said: "Adda' bin Khalid bin Hawdhah said to me: 'Shall I not read to you a letter that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), wrote to me?' I said: 'Yes.' So he took out a letter. In it was: 'This is what 'Adda' bin Khalid bin Hawdhah bought [from] Muhammad the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) He bought from him a slave' or 'a female slave, having no ailments, nor being a runaway, not having any malicious behavior. Sold by a Muslim to a Muslim.'"
Sunan Ibn Majah 2251
Grade: Hasan
Reviving the Sunnah of Slavery is a righteous end, it's benefits far outweigh any speculative harm.
@@Jin-1337 How can you "free all your sins" by freeing a slave if slavery is prohibited? If anything you're advocating for the annulment of the parts of the Qur'an/Sunnah that instructs freeing slaves as a path to repentance, moreover there is a difference between "promoting slavery" and "prohibiting slavery" the latter is what is being discussed not the former. Which is why I agree with you that "The final revelation simply gives us the proper way to treat slaves and why is it necessary. There is no chapter in the Quran where Allah SWT tells you to use slaves as economic growth" as per "free them as soon as possible" that is up to the master/slave to decide not you or I or the ruler or state:
حَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ يُونُسَ، حَدَّثَنَا زُهَيْرٌ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ عَطَاءٍ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ بُرَيْدَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، بُرَيْدَةَ أَنَّ امْرَأَةً، أَتَتْ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَتْ كُنْتُ تَصَدَّقْتُ عَلَى أُمِّي بِوَلِيدَةٍ وَإِنَّهَا مَاتَتْ وَتَرَكَتْ تِلْكَ الْوَلِيدَةَ . قَالَ " قَدْ وَجَبَ أَجْرُكِ وَرَجَعَتْ إِلَيْكِ فِي الْمِيرَاثِ " .
Buraidah said A woman came to the Messenger of Allah (SAWS) and said I gave a slave girl as sadaqah to my mother who has now died and has left that slave girl. He (SAWS) said "your reward is sure and the inheritance has given her back to you."
Sunan Abi Dawud 1656
You can gift and inherit slaves, so how can slavery be prohibited?
@@al-al5497 It seems I'm mistaken, thanks for correcting me. Jazakallah khair.
We now live in a world where slavery is just not necessary. To not do it isn't haram.
this was interesting i always thought of it negative but you actually gave logical statements
May Allah guide you and your family Daniel, thank you for saying the truth and being upfront while others don’t, keep on the battle ❤
The video transcript segment discusses the historical justification and moral aspects of slavery, focusing on the argument that slavery was a common practice in various civilizations and was often seen as a necessity for economic and survival purposes, especially during times of war. The speaker defends the concept of slavery as a tool of warfare and compares it to modern weaponry, emphasizing that the industrial revolution made slavery obsolete. The discussion also touches on the differences between owning versus renting labor, with some historical viewpoints suggesting that there is little distinction between wage labor and slavery. The speaker mentions that historical forms of slavery were not solely based on racial aspects, particularly in Islam, where the institution was intertwined with warfare and societal organization. The segment ends with a statement asserting that slavery is historically and logically justified, with no excuses for its existence.
Why did you agree with the notion that early humans were hunter-gatherers that evolved from monkeys/ apes?
12:15 lmao I laugh when I watch Apus make a little sigh, he’s like “damn if he’s recommending a book? Why can’t it be a quick google search” 😂
This is the real content❤.....not that khaled salma topics
There are ppl in poverty now who would be better off with a kind and merciful master under regulated slavery that protects their rights.
Half the ppl who end up homeless and drug addicted are just ppl who couldn't adjust to not being taken care of by their parents or whoever was taking care of them up until they reached 18. And that's just the ppl in wealthy countries. There are even more ppl in poor countries, dying of starvation or from some illnesses that could be easily treated in wealthier countries who would experience an increase in their quality of life if they were slaves to a decent master under regulated slavery.
Thats a bad argument . Ur acting like they would have a choice to be a slave
Asslamalikum. Proud of you brother mashallah
اللَّهُمَّ إِنِّي أَسْأَلُكَ خَيْرَ الْمَسْأَلَةِ،وَخَيْرَ الدُّعَاءِ، وَخَيْرَ النَّجَاحِ، وَخَيْرَ الْعَمَلِ،وَخَيْرَ الثَّوَابِ،وَخَيْرَ الْحَيَاةِ، وَخَيْرَ الْمَمَاتِ، وَثَبِّتْنِي، وَثَقِّل مَوَازِينِي، وَحَقِّقْ إِيمَانِي، وَارْفَعْ دَرَجَاتِي، وَتَقَبَّلْ صَلاَتِي، وَاغْفِرْ خَطِيئَتِي، وَأَسْأَلُكَ الدَّرَجَاتِ العُلاَ مِنَ الْجَنَّةِ
Imagine in the year 2024 trying to justify slavery.
Imagine blaming people for not abolishing slavery earlier (this is a literal talking point, they always say "if islam is good then why didnt it reject slavery")
Slavery exists in human nature.
Every conflict, war, displacements, debts, bankruptcy create vulnerable people.
What is your answer to this human condition?
Under Islam, these people can be taken as slaves and they would have more rights than any corporate and industrial slave living in the US, EU and high income countries.
Imagine the people complaining about slavery the most - their own nation did it in the ugliest fashion😂
Imagine trying to justify employment. Employment is a cruel backwards barbaric practice
@@GTestuser in islam, only war can results in slaves, other forms are prohibited i guess so please correct me, like slaving someone because of debts, or because he committed a crime, these 2 are not allowed. Only wars can results (defensive war, or offensive if the oppressor did not stop its offense ) in slaves in islam, the rest are haram no?
Again...Daniel giving convincing evidence. Allahumabarik brother.❤
Thank you Sir
Слава Аллаһу, Господу нашему
The premier source of Islamic doctrine, the Noble Quran, NEVER mentions slavery in an imperative mood.
Instead, it keeps the topic firmly within a conditional context. IF someone finds himself in such a situation then he should do x and y; not that he should deliberately undertake a slave hunting expedition to make himself fit within that context.
I disagree with Daniel’s comparison of renting a person vs owning them.
An employee (rented) is free to leave whenever they want and they can choose how and where they wants to work. An employee is literally a free man who can do whatever they want whenever they want it. A slave cannot even eat without his master’s permission.
He puts it wrong ....and should correct himself
A slave can also leave if he chooses to (through مكاتبه)
Yes they can leave and do whatever they want. But that comes with consequences. You leave you work you get fired that means no income, you can be told what time you lunch is, you can go to another company and you’d be back to square one. Let’s not mix the slavery of the west and Islam completely two different things.
@@mohamedshiekh635 Islam is against slavery ....and interest rates economy is the biggest way to create modern slaves 😑😑😑😑
So disagree and keep it to yourself. Why does anybody care about your opinion? Who are you to butt your head into this topic?
Really good points, brother
Daniel what about the families that made up the conquered people. Were they kept under one roof as slaves or were they separated? Is there jurisprudence answering this aspect of slavery?
Alhamdulilah
I like how every time he has a non-Muslim woman on the panel he just blurs their face not 100% but like 70-80%.
Literally no point of the blur. We can still see her😂.
So lower your gaze
it's a good way to explain imo. 👍👍
Slavery is agreed upon rule of society meaning if either of rivals win they take the other one as slaves and integrate the slaves into theirs society so it agreed upon rule or unspoken rule if you will.
Daniel, Amazies every time. Long live Daniel
May Allah bless you
ANJEM Choudarry Found Guilty in UK..
He was an evil man likely on govt payroll. The thug had no access to any mosque, but got all the publicity in all mainstream media. How did he get so much publicity and Muslim leaders in UK didn't, is no mystery: agent provocateur.
So was Tommy Robinson 😑
@@mohamedshiekh635 Anjem's assigned job was to pour gasoline into Islamophobia.
May Allah free him.
When you've been told the torture and killing of an innocent man can bring something good into your life and access to heaven in the hereafter and believe that Greco-Roman nonsense , you loose your capability to differentiate between right and wrong unless ALLAH saves you from the herders who want to use you as well as use your children !
Slavery in Islam is alot similar to having a contractual job in todays world than it is to european colonialist version. The word became a taboo cuz of the barbaric way they did it. In historic muslim context slaves earn a fair wage have almost all the same civil rights as your master. if you dont like your contract someone can buy you out or you can buy yourself out (like most contractual jobs today).
Alhamdullilah for islam!
Would you like to work as a contractor in Israel?
People are failing to understand simple differences, back then it was normal humans who practiced slavery including kings and queens and the same people prohibited it later but,in Islam it was practiced by the prophet, and he didn't banned it like he did for alcohol and pork. Its s huge difference, comparing actions of normal individual to a messenger of God, does god want his creation to be slaves and goes through hardship when believers and non believers are both his creation.
@Kepler10b You can't trade or sell your slaves in Islam.
@@costructivecriticyou failed to understand that for Islam, slavery is akin to contracts, and not akin to what slavery is infamously known for today.
When you bought up employees I couldn‘t agree more
We Love You Br Daniel! May Allaah Protect You, Your Family, & Accept All Your Duas, Ameen! 💙🕋❤
السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ
Assalamu’alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh
متى استعبدتم الناس وقد ولدتهم امهم احرارا
بعد الحروب
This is tough to defend and I love how you don't shy away from such challenging topics. Great analysis. I would only add the difference between owning someone and renting someone is freedom. An employee can quit, open their own business and become the employer. Slaves generally never had the option to become masters. I also don't think this difference in any way invalidates the point you were making though I do think this is an important difference.
I watched the discussion with Kim Iversen and I think that you failed to actually support the Islamic position. At some point you make a massive blunder and use the slavery in US as a point of comparison for why it might be favorable for one to be a slave.
First, the US slavery system is an abomination that we should categorically condemn. Taking free people as slaves, raping them, racism, bad treatment, etc...
Secondly, you're trying so hard to steelman slavery that you almost go as far as arguing that it's actually more diserable. Being a slave isn't desirable generally. Saying it doesn't undermine our position it's just the truth. Trying to argue against that is hard and it's not a hill that's worth dying on.
It really made me appreciate more the Dawah from some guys in the UK. The arguments they use at Sapience for example are far more robust.
Agreed. This was an L for Daniel. Kim had better arguments. I don't know why he even clipped it. Ego must have made him delusional, which happens to almost every debate bro in the end they lose the plot.
Good comment ....respect
He is not talking about the problem of interest rates *( economic slavery ) , he is not supporting Islamic civilizational standpoints of human brotherhood under One God , social justice 4 Muslims and other people ....but finding arguments like labor force , economy ....like a colonial master . Islam is not blackrock corpocracy ...
@@heregoes8839 This is exactly the problem I have with Islam as presented by Daniel. The US system generally is not good. There are by far many countries with better systems, is he saying Allah is as bad as Bush, Trump and Biden?
@@innocentodinkemere4597 No Daniel isn't saying that. Try not put words in his mouth please.
@@heregoes8839 He is saying slavery is a fact of human reality right? So also is murder, rape etc. Are these things then endorsed because?
اللَّهُمَّ أَعِنِّيْ عَلَى ذِكْرِكَ وَشُكْرِكَ وَحُسْنِ عِبَادَتِكَ
Allahumma a inni Ala Zikrik Wa Shukrika Wa Husni Ibadatika
O Allah, help me remember You, to be grateful to You, and to worship You,
When the allies won World War 2 they did not enslave the Germans and Japanese despite those 2 nations being the most morally abhorrent murderous war criminals. And when the rebels of Vietnam and recently Afgahnistan win their wars they did not enslave their enemies (both foreign invades and natives who helped foreign superpowers) . So how do you reconcile that with your argument that slavery is necessary in order to survive and avoid being attacked by the enemy population regrouping?
عندما انتصر الحلفاء لم ( يستعبدوا) الألمان بل قتلوا 12 مليون الماني مدني تطهير عرقي واغتصبوا ملايين النساء الألمان الكثير منهن انتحروا بعد ذالك / العبودية ارحم بكثير من هذه الهمجية والعدوانية
Many german POWs were made to do labor including being forced to clear minefields after the second world, many died during that process and i remember was even a movie about it. POWs were made to do labor all the time so slavery did take place
He was talking about the pre modern era before guns and bomb slavery was the weapon of war.
POWs were literal slaves in both Russia and Germany. They were forced to work in fields and in the front, in the most humane conditions.
Vietnam had thousands of American POWs, only a list of 550 or so were given to the US, who would be freed if they paid for the war reparation of $3.6 billion. That investigation was suppressed by alleged war hero John Mccain and John Kerry.
As for how the allied forces treated the Germans, read up Giles MacDonogh's "After the Reich" and James Bacque's "Other Losses."
@@Mradel1996Were Japanese and Germans ordinary civilians sold in public slave markets of New York London Paris and Moscow? Including concubine girls sold in public market like how medieval middle east society did? Were there any TV And newspaper adverts for German and Japanese slaves? Any public court registers with records of transactions of which American/British/French/Soviet/Chinese free man bought and sold and freed which Japanese/German slave? Did these ally countries have written rules and regulations in their law books and constitutions instructing how to treat your Japanese or German slave? All these things that i mentioned, this is the REAL slavery, which lasts for decades or centuries like how it did for 13 centuries in muslim history , not forcing a few POWs to clear minefields for a Year or two.
I didn't think the Jew would have such an apologetic response.
Islam doesn't like slavery
Allah said everyone is equal.
Yes . Interest rates economy is from the devil 😑😑😑😑
Everyone is equal spiritually, not in this life
Sometimes there are men that pull more deaths when they die (like leaders), those are definitely NOT EQUAL to teh average citizen
@@AbdoMSG as humans everyone is equal .but what you are saying it's different thing . didn't relate to slavery at all.
@@atiaakram1527 define equal
If it was so moral like he frames it why did the prophet s/a/w get a slave just to free them, similar to abu bakr r/a. I get the wider point in that slavery as known today and all of the violations that came with it was never endorsed in islam. So much so out all of the servants the prophet s/a/w had when freed, one of them still stayed because he wanted to serve him via his own will. The longest servant/slave he had was a gift from his wife khadija who brought a young Zaid bin haritha home and even he was adopted by them.
sometimes i feel like Daniel’s quest to not be apologetic has him wording things recklessly. “Slavery is moral, the prophet had slaves”
May Allah grant you wisdom and clarity in speech. Had i not
Known the nuances related to this topic and the institution based argument he was getting at, i would have thought exactly as the person who sent me this video.
I love daniel fisibilaah but his actually vibe and tone deaf sometimes on very serious topics. I cant put my finger on what it is exactly but i think his ego gets off on feeling like he is “telling it like it is” even when he isnt, what ever it is it’s definitely connected to disdain of being called apologetic.
I cant stand apologetic Muslims who twist and water down the religion, but likewise i cant stand Muslims who in a quest to not be apologetic, expose the religion to distortions that stem only from their framing of it.
Slavery is justified during traditional warfares. The enemy were ought to be slaved but gathering innocent people from distant places and turning them into slaves is utter evil and should not be condoned.
Can someone enlighten me about that point in Islam. I get it, it was practiced during invasions and conquest but to merely catch people and ship them for slavery; is that justified?
Islam forbids catching and turning a free person to slave!
حتى ما يقوله الاخ دانيال مع انه رأي كثير من العلماء ولكن ايضا هناك رأي اسلامي آخر بتحريم الاستعباد حتى مع الأسر استنادا إلى الاية القرانية / السورة رقم 47 الآية رقم 4
None, because there was no such practice of slavery in Islam. You can not, out of nowhere, catch a man and make him your slave in Islam. You are thinking of the slavery prevalent in western mindset due to your own media. Liberalism want to demonize slavery so much it builds the narrative from the worst of your own history. This specific practice is all you know from slavery that then become your only lens in viewing history.
Absolutely. If stealing is haram, stealing humans too must be.
The best video on the subject of slavery is on RUclips:
Response to Converted2Islam "Why I Left Islam" by EF Dawah". An absolute gem.
I do not like the title of this video at all. No way slavery is moral when people are kidnapped and sold. However, the best thing that could happen to an unfortunate victim was to be in the hands of Muslims. They cannot mistreat them, beat them to a pulp, mutilate them, or starving them. Muslims did 'buy' them, if they didn't, they would be either in worse hands or be killed by the slavers.
If the newcomers became Muslims they had to be treated as brothers; if they did not, they still had their rights to similar food and clothing.
This also increased the ranks (which Daniel notes correctly) of Muslims and their military, the purpose that it (buying) served an existential needs of Muslim strength then.
The only type of slaves that you’re allowed to have are war Prisoners in Islam and he explained it very well in the video
Islam fought against slavery gradually in one way or another.
I think you are making quite a few factual errors, not to mention logical errors as well. There were quite a few successful civilizations that did not have slavery similar to Judeo-Christian and Islamic slavery. Harappan and Indus valley civilization, Incas, Igbo tribes of Africa and others. Some of them did practice indentured servitude and that is condemnable as well but a lot of them had either volunteers or paid jobs for the labourers.
Lol
Miskeen...
Harappa-Mahenjodoro , Indus valley civilization didn't have slavery...
What a joke man
So anyway, the issue you have with conceptualizing the difference between a slave and an employee is that a slave doesn’t quit his job because he’s being abused. An employee does. A slave didn’t consent to become a slave. But an employee consents to being an employee. A slave doesn’t study in his youth for a trade but an employee does. A slave is an undignified man who has had his freedom stripped away from him and is forced to earn it back. The employee has his freedom and may exercise however he sees fit.
Your explaination through war isn’t a moral argument, it’s a practical argument. It was a necessary evil, not a moral good. It was not good that a group of people were defeated and put in chains, but it was better than being wiped out immediately. Because eventually, their culture and heritage will be destroyed by the process of slavery so you can still argue it’s genocide.
So ultimately, I think your entire argument is built on shaky grounds and appeals to tradition, popularity, or authority will not change that.
You didn’t mention in Islam you can’t enslave free men!!!! Huge difference between slavery in Islam and other religions. You need to mention that in the beginning of every argument of slavery!!!
He is acting like Islam is pro slavery ????*
🌒🌒🌒🕌🕌⭐🌙
Islam is teaching social justice against interest rates economy .
Kur'an is saying , you should help buy of slaves from slavery .....
🤔🤔🤔🤔😑😑😑😑> 📗⭐🌙🕌
Other religions didn't make slay-very as Halal, only Islam did. Other religions were practicing it bcoz it was there in society but only Islam legalized it through Quran till judgement day.
@@AmicableAgnostic ?????
Cheep propaganda from devil helpers .....
@@aldindurakovic8828 are u talking about Daniel.
@@AmicableAgnostic about you
I never thought I’d agree with apostate
You failed to mention that capture in war is the rarest of the 5 routes to slavery in classical Islamic jurisprudence:
1- being born to a slave mother
2- being sold as a slave
3- being gifted as a slave
4- being inherited as a slave
5- being captured in war and not ransomed nor exchanged
Numbers 1-4 do not require there being any war to start with, it is a self perpetuating institution
Your argument is thus invalid and slavery is certainly the most immoral institution in the history of mankind
Source?
Muslims didn't practice generational slavery like the American colonies and parts of Europe, which is why we're not dealing with a downtrodden slave/former slave class crying for emancipation or reparations. You didn't actually respond to the argument, you just concluded it's invalid on the basis of trivial objections.
@@ibn_adham Yes , but Daniel is not helping ....acting like a slave master
Islam is teaching to free slaves and to marry them like free people ...
Daniel is just defending slavery ???*
@@ibn_adham Actually Muslims practiced generational slavery for centuries. In Saudi Arabia and Mauritania black citizens are commonly referred to as عبد A'bd meaning "slave" and have limited economic opportunities
@@ibn_adham I proved Daniel's core premise (that slavery is exclusively an offshoot of war) completely invalid
You consider that a trivial point?
18:01 Swahili Saying: better to stumble with toe than tongue....😂😂
I haven't watched the video but how is slavery moral when Islam and the Quranic injunctions severely limit the ability to own slaves, encourage the freeing of slaves as expiation for sins, and severely admonish the mistreatment of slaves and encourage the freeing of slaves in general. So if it was "moral", why are there so many shari' principles encouraging us to limit or completely distance ourselves from this "moral" practice? Is this just clickbait...seriously?
watch the video my guy
If it was immoral, Islam would have prohibited it from the start. However Islam recognises the necessity of having slaves during conquest and after war. Islam is a practical religion. Also, slaves in Islam have rights and must be treated very well unlike the modern transatlantic slave trade which was completely inhumane.
@@232police using your reasoning, then alcohol consumption isn't immoral because Islam didn't prohibit it right away?
@@walisaidi4049 I think you misunderstood his comment.
Acohol wasnt prohibited right away, we know that it took 23 years for the full Quran to be fuffiled. In those 23 years Alcohol was prohibited, Slavery wasnt prohibited
@@232police It isnt a necessity actually the ruler has the option to take them as slaves, or keep them as free people or exile them, whatever is the most practical to the ruler
The Muslim Skeptic argument, all cars do the same thing so they should all cost the same.
Strawman.
I don't see the point in replaying and rehashing slavery by featuring this guy. He's not an Islamic scholar and his understanding is incorrect. Islam is against slavery; it encourages freeing up slaves. Muhammad (peace be upon him) set precedents, for example, by freeing up a Coptic Christian slave woman and marrying her. And when it talks about slavery, it's akin to employment, not the way it was practiced by the Americans or the Belgians in Congo. A person in servitude is expected to wear the same clothes and eat the same. Check out the story of Umar and his employee when they traveled to Jerusalem to accept their surrender. When the Jerusalemites saw them, they could not differentiate between the two.
Again, he's incorrect.
yea theres a difference between a slave and milk al yamin
Are you blind and deaf? Cause he explains it very clearly and yes even tho it’s a good thing in islam to free slaves it doesn’t mean that it’s not allowed cause slavery at the time of the prophets and later on till basically 200 years ago was required for the good of the society while now it is not required. And also we know that slavery isn’t encouraged but it doesn’t mean that it’s impermissible
@@Vinoblanc29 I agree with Daniel (in the way YOU explained his position) but the examples he used to back up his points were weak and didn't make sense. It was an L for him imo. The woman came off as the more sensible one in this exchange.
@@heregoes8839 I mean Daniel explained it more in detail but essentially he basically said the same thing that I said
@@Vinoblanc29 If his aim was to only explain his position (that it was permissible but not required) then fine. But looking at this video title and what he says at the beginning, that wasn't his aim. They were not convinced (even almost).
Should the IDF take Palestinian women and men as slaves? Just saying based on what Daniel said.
Yes
You don't need to they have already done it. They treat them like sub-animals, these types are like "hey, I'll just spend some time in Hell. Then, paradise forever I am chosen. There is no way my God would hold me accountable for every action, atrocities I had done. He chose me not you"
I can't believe this guy justified slavery.
You need to know which slavery he's talking about
He justified slavery at that time in Islam now slavery is not required
You didn't listen to anything. You just came straight to the comments
Don't be brainwashed by this nonsense so called shakes
You’re a clown just watch the video he is talking about a specifically type of slavery (which is not required now)
Well said brother Allahumma zid wa barik
@18:00 & @18:25 The duality of man.
3:55 for who are disagreeing with him
If you treat your property well, slavery is not an issue.
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
إِلَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَذَكَرُوا اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا وَانْتَصَرُوا مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا ظُلِمُوا وَسَيَعْلَمُ الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا أَيَّ مُنْقَلَبٍ يَنْقَلِبُونَ ﴿۲۲۷﴾
Except those who believe, and do good works and remember Allah in abundance and became victorious after they had been wronged. The wrongdoers will surely know which turn they will be returning to (Hell). (
SubjanAllah great response Br. Daniel we need full stream on this subjects current status of salvery in Islam and treatment of slaves in Islam. in comparision with Christianity and Judaism
where is the first interview's full video ?
Search "Kim Iversen Daniel Haqiqatou"
11:51 The part we’re all here for. The Apostate Prophet, the guy who called Islam uniquely evil among religions, something that must be destroyed, the “Ex-Muslim” getting schooled and flipping on the topic of slavery.
Let’s see just how seriously we can take this man.
Why is the picture quality on Kim Iverson so bad? I found you from your interview with her
He blurred her coz she’s a woman
JazakAllah'u khairan brother 🇵🇸🤲🏻
_"its sometimes a moral necessity"_ but you used really bad examples that aren't convincing at all lol. Winning a war or battle, for most people that doesn't morally justify OWNERSHIP AS YOUR PROPERTY/SLAVES the innocent civilians in that land who did not participate in the fighting or had no say in it. And even for the prisoners of war (i.e. soldiers captured alive), they wouldn't make for trustworthy or good soldiers or labor since they would likely want to see you lose and sabotage you since you are their enemy being that FORCED them into slavery after destroying their families and previous life.
POWs are not innocent civilians.
@@AlanValhaz Never said they were. Read it again, as slowly as you need.
Apuss is always a good throwback. He is probably one of the reasons why this channel is so successful now😂😂.
Apus: the walking-talking contradiction
😂
I’ve seen how black people were treated by Saudis when slavery was legal there..Its still technically legal there but not as bad as before and this is all because the west pressure..Can’t even imagine how it would be like when you guys have nothing to be scared of
Owning a human being, buying and selling them as property, and dictating them is wrong in Islam.
The only purpose of slavery in islam, is to integrate the slave into the economic and sociocultural status of the society. It is better to call it a guardianship, rather than ownership. You can see this in the lifestyle and approach of the ahl bayt to their slaves.
They never imprisoned them, they taught them how to make money, and they never took the money that the slave(again, wrong term, which english doesn't have a better term for it unfortunately) made for themselves. Meaning they did not "own" their labor.
In that manner, you are wrong brother. Islam does not agree with the ownership of labor, by any means. Being it force or money, you cannot own a person's labor without their full consent.
"slaves" in islam are clothed and fed like the owners, we can't overburden them, no where near to what people think slavery is.
I saw this KI interview in her channel She wasn’t blurred there 😄
Why did you blur Kim’s whole face???
It’s more of a monologue than a debate
maybe cuz this is a compilation of HIS interventions?
@@mordecake6344
Don't understand