A resistant, smooth material for better bike frames: hardwood
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- When CNC (computer numerical control) technology reached a point where wooden bicycles could be made- at least partially- by machine, Ken Wheeler- who is neither woodworker nor engineer, but a very advanced tinkerer- decided the time was right to start building wooden bikes.
Wheeler built the first 12 and then set up shop in Portland, Oregon, where today, a CNC machine can build up to 1000 frames per year. Though the automated part is only the beginning. Once the frames come off the machine they need hand-crafted finishing work.
At first, Wheeler tried employing cabinet-makers to smooth and perfect the bicycles, but "that didn't work" so he turned to artists, and today many of his employees moonlight as sculptors. This dependence on crafters makes wood a demanding material, but the extra labor pays off.
While wood lacks the structural firmness of carbon fiber, Wheeler argues it more than makes up for this with its ability to absorb vibration better than carbon, making for a very smooth ride. Also, given the wide range of woods to choose from- Wheeler has identified 53 different hardwoods qualified to be used for bikes-, wooden bikes can be more closely tailored to individual riders and their riding styles. Wood also withstands impact very well. Wheeler showed me a test block where they'd dropped a weight on frame tubes. The steel and aluminum tubes had obvious dents. I had to look closely to see the mark left on Renovo's wood composite.
A crafted bike is also a more expensive bike (at least 4 thousand dollars for just the frame), but Renovo cycles are comparably priced with high-end carbon race bikes. Some professional riders have made the switch to wood. Even Robin Williams is a fan and a frequent visitor of the Sausalito showroom.
What makes a wooden bike truly magical is its ability to outlive us. When you crack a carbon-fiber bike, it's usually time for a new bike and perhaps, a stint on bustedcarbon.com. If you bust a wooden bike, it can be mended and can recover most, if not all, of it is original strength. There are no dents that can't be refinished, so timber-built two-wheelers can be, in Slow Design parlance, heirloom pieces. "You can pass them along to your grandkids," hopes Wheeler.
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Music credit: "Cannonball" by Paperhand Lincoln www.paperhandli...
I love this! A wooden bike. What a wild idea. I know people are going to start calling this the new hipster bike, but let's take time to recognize a purely good idea by itself. We're entering a new generation that's combining style and function.
I'm not on mic and I try not to use my voice in the videos. It's really a last resort when the answers don't hold up on their own. Though I'll keep your comments in mind.
Just the frames start at $1950 (then you add components, etc). All the hand-crafting (and customization) isn't cheap.
If you have the time, and inclination, you could try to DIY your own. Google "plycycle".. this person created his own for £363.03 (about $565) in materials, and 6 months (42 hours total) of labor hours.
As an ecology student who has worked with wood I'm impressed. It is easy to forget what it takes to grow, harvest and prepare before we can even work with something. Additionally, there is a difference between expensive hand tools and more expensive machinery and design time, layout, cutting, etc... test, and more. To every item we use there is a cost, often others pay the hidden costs. I would believe there are less hidden costs with these bikes. I hope Renovo supports reforestation.
They are beautiful wooden bikes.
He is bettering society by creating high quality (non-polluting) products that people want to buy (putting money into the economy).
You have come a long way as a documentary maker. I was just checking out this oldie but goodie.
Congrats RENOVO, you're on the right track. Few have any idea (cognitive ability) of the exceptional net characteristics of wood in this application.
Wooden track rims (wheels) - for track - are, in a word, indescribable......, especially if ever ridden on a wooden track.
Very beautiful, this would be something I would give to my kids kids kids to the umpteenth generation when kids are on hover-boards this would still be a work of art, functional art
Even folding bikes aren't that convenient to store. You still trip over the pedals. things still get caught in the spokes, and it still moves around when tapped.
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The solution to storing your bike is the ceiling. Two pulleys and a steel cable, and your storage problem is solved.
If I had that kind of money I would love to get one. Nice looking.
I paid $3500 for my bike. Some people invest into this sort of thing, because they really enjoy it. Its not stupid.
great design and construction.
For $150-$300 you can get a bicycle motor kit, to make that $200 bicycle pedal itself. Mine is 80cc, can go 70km/h, costs $3 to fill the tank, and I get a solid 50 clicks per tank---all with no drivers license, and no car insurance.
Sadly, Renovo Wooden Bicycles has gone out of business. Beautiful bikes...
I have a $80 bike with a $150 gas motor kit on it that pedals itself for $3-$4 dollars per tank (55 miles per tank, in low wind)
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>$300 for a self-pedaling bike = win
I've broke steel frames on trees. So would hitting a expensive piece of wood on a bigger piece of wood break? Mind blown
You'll hit a pole, or get hit by a metal vehicle, or someone will take a cigarette lighter to it and you'll come out to a pile of metal parts sans wood.
I was doing a job app. and now taking a break Luv to watch your videos :):)
The difficulty is that when you re-weld steel it messes with the heat treatment and can weaken the joint. It depends on where the weld is located though.
Wood is natures composite. In fact, I'm sure that who ever created wood was a genius.
D. Wood is not "far from high tech" its just generally excluded from modern materials---not because it isn't desirably light, it is---and not because its unacceptably weak, because it isn't. Wood has simply been left behind in the recent scramble for so-called "high-tech" materials.
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The problem with laminate wood composite is the price behind growing lumber, and turning trees into thin layers of wood, and turning that into a solid block of wood. Bamboo is a much better option.
Was not expecting the Robin Williams easter egg.
It's expensive because they are Art! Bicycles are unfortunately often modelled on practicality. The trick would be to advertise a worthy reason to combine the two. :)
A. We didn't move away from wood because its an inferior product, it simply got left behind in the rush of modern materials in recent decades.
B. My high school vocational was aerospace---they taught us everything about all modern materials, the different types of material strength, what strength you need for what tasks, and bonding agents are appropriate for what materials, etc etc etc. I'm not some "ego douchebag hipster" I'm someone who knows what he's talking about, which you clearly don't.
It's actually the voice clarity that's an issue.
Granted their voices could be louder in comparison to the music, but the dialogue in this video is missing it's high frequencies. Has to do with the room he was recorded in.
There's a big difference between something that lives in the water 24/7, has a number of mechanical complexities, and suffers damage from fuel, oil, and engine heat than something that lives in the garage (or living room) when it's not being used.
You can bet that when I have one of these, I'll be selling my current bike and riding the Renovo all the time.
Golly, you're right! It's *HOLLOW*! Seriously, I watched the movie, I get it. In fact, I know a bit about wood. And true, your average carpenter wouldn't be able to do much with it, but a master woodworker (especially one who doubles as a bikesmith) would be able to repair it very securely. In fact, wood properly bonded with wood glue is often stronger than the original wood to begin with.
Yes, difficult questions with no simple answers - *all* choices have both positives and negatives!
As far as I know, they used downtubes (maybe it was top tubes) for all of the tests. There is such a thing as oversized steel tubes, you know. The steel is also obviously quite a bit smaller in diameter ...
Diameters aside, the results of that test are pretty clear. The wood tube is dented significantly less. And like he said, in the metal tubes, those dents serve for locations for cracks to propagate. In the wood, not so much.
In the right area this would be a better investment than a car.
I've seen a similar product on Daily Planet---except it was made from bamboo, with hemp & resin for the joints. Similarly, they were woefully expensive, which simply shouldn't be the case.
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I can grow bamboo and hemp (legal to grow in Canada) for mere pennies---and scrap bike parts are dime a dozen these days. I can literally put together a parted-bike for free any day. Done right, with a bamboo frame, there's absolutely no reason these shouldn't cost a lot less than a normal bicycle.
Wonderful video! Thanks!
Like wooden boats, wooden bikes are pretty to look at but in the real world under daily use, too impractical to own and I'd rather look at the trees anyway. From my fiberglass boat I can see dozens of wood boats up on the hard in various states of repair and neglect unable to be used for one reason or another. I imagine that owners of these things are proud to display them at home and then go riding to work on their metal bike.
if u using machine made tyre,what is the benefit of hand mand frame?
A. Carbon fiber can be very fragile. Any significant scratch or gouge, and the damaged part WILL delaminate, sooner or later. It isn't prized for its strength, its prized for its weight.
B. You will never find a carbon fiber bike for under $1,000. Usually the frame and tires alone costs several thousand---that's without any gears or breaks.
C. Racing bikes are amongst the most expensive bicycles. If you think you'll find a decked out carbon fiber racing bike for >$1k you're dreaming.
Unos de los mejores trabajos q eh visto soy de costa Rica y quiero empezar mi propia bici en madera
A. Many companies still produce wooden-framed / shelled planes.
B. It wasn't an extracurricular, its a vocational school that heavily focuses on industrial courses, with little emphasis on academic courses. Its a fast track to college; you get there faster, and when you get there, you already know the course.
C. The only reason shuttles can't currently be partially made of wood is weight, nothing more.
D. You say carbon fiber bikes cost less than $1,000. You don't know what YOU'RE talking about.
Very beautiful. Which glue did you use to resist wood?
compared to metals, wood is a very odd material - both transmit resonance readily, but wood absorbs vibrations
Something to make your self and hand down!!
You've got to be kidding. Carbon Fiber might sound like a good thing (I'm actually building a new MTB rig around a full carbon frame) but it's a bitch to maintain. Just a slight gouge can mean the end of your frame. It might be super high tech, but it's prone to catastrophic failure. And you won't get a carbon frame itself under around 1000$ let alone a complete bike with higher end components.
Wood is the king of materials, and as a bike junkie, I'd get one of these.
Is the fork on backwards on that bike?
$2000 is very reasonable for a high quality bike. The trash you can buy for $200 simply doesn't compare.
What about weight? Is it much more heavier than carbon frames..
Alot, but they won't tell you that. That's why you haven't gotten an answer in five years.
Warch out for the termites ? Wood feels nice to touch . Are the weights comparabe with alum and steel ?
And yet, at 10:10 into the video, they describe how they repaired a break in wooden frame--with the repair being at least as strong as the original wood.
Except for the fact that Renovo has repaired one of their bikes damaged in a bad crash (and it was ridden for something like 12 miles after the fact), and tested it to original specs.
As an add on to your other comment, ask any carpenter about wood as a construction material and get a much different answer than what you gave ...
The problem I see with using wood is that there is no precedent that has withstood the test of time. Show me a functioning wooden bike in 20 years and I might become a believer.
They don't simply use raw wood I believe. There's some treatment and chemicals used to preserve the wood and make it unattractive to bugs.
What's the carbon footprint of importing tropical woods?
I agree sad to say. Seat, wheels, shocks, I dont see how the ride would be different.
How much? Do they do int'l shipping?
Since these are very labor intensive I assume these bikes are not cheap. Some skis use wood as a core but it is laminated with graphite or fiberglass and uses metal edging. I would never buy a solid wood ski. What is the weight of the bike he was riding. Wood boats look beautiful with brands like Chris Craft, Riva and Gar Wood. These boats are high maintenance and are expensive.
At 6:45 they show their finger joints with cross sectioning wood grain. That is not very strong according to theory. Finger joints are designed to extend the piece of wood and you do that following the grain. I would like to hear his response to that. Maybe there is a valid reason.
I don't understand why strength and rigidity come into question with something like this. Aside from the fact that there are tons of high-end bike with the same sticker price, treated wood it just as strong as any other bike material. Houses have proven that, automobiles have proven that, boats have proven that.
Because people put faith in marketing FUD. We've all done it. That's how you sell something, you use either FUD or sex or both.
You seemed to have missed the part about living in the water 24/7 ...
Boats are also difficult and expensive to maintain, whether or not they're made out of wood. It's one thing to pull in to your driveway after a ride, hop off, walk it in and wipe it down (if that's even necessary). It's something else entirely to pull into the drydock or trailer the boat, pull it out of the water, and hose and scrub and clean and deal with marine life. It's not a reasonable or fair comparison at all.
Sounds like you didn't bother to watch the video you're commenting on. In fact, wood can be repaired more easily than any metal.
Nice idea and they look great imho. But what about wood eating bugs? What if my wooden frame will be hijacked by a bunch of some tiny creatures who eat my frame up while I'm driving on my wood bike.
i think they add chemicals but myself i wont buy a wooden bike but still very cool stuff
how is it unethical?
from the Renovo channel: "The frames are hollow; road, 4-5 lbs, mtn, 5.5-6 lbs"
Less so if its very well seasoned like this will be. Furniture makers leave wood to settle in a kiln for 3 weeks-6 months, i bet you've never seen a handmade piece of furniture that's split or massively warped yet, i know i haven't
So, would momentum be lost in a wood frame?
I like how they use carbon forks on all of their bikes and how they don't really mention carbon fiber as a frame material. Also their crush test with the aluminum, titanium, steel, and wood was so flawed. They didn't use actual frames for the test because they all were about the same diameter. A steel frame is going to have a lot smaller diameter tube than an aluminum.
I love how his forks are on backwards
thats a manitou fork
how much does it weight?
What type of wood he used??
Whats your thought of the Bamboo Bikes?
I want one!
I've heard of bamboo bikes, also.
Too bad. I would have loved to work there.
$ price ?
I find it difficult to hear Kirsten's questions in these wonderful videos.
All in all, I love the idea of making bikes out of wood, but you couldn't make a Specialized Demo 8 II out of wood.
The bikes are buetiful but simply too expensive for my budget. A more practical wood for creatiion of bicycle tubes is bamboo (google search... bamboo bikes) which nature provides in tube form so minimum machining is required.
Proof bike designs have tipped. There's nothing left to try it's all been done
Nevermind. He mentions bamboo at 6:23. I hadn't reached that part of the video when I commented.
Bicycles made of metal work great, are inexpensive and can be recycled indefinitely, but especially if they break you can buy parts and fix it.
If you break the bike made of wood there is no way to repair it and return it solid and secure as before ...
Bravo I love it. Who does your wheels?
Apart from the metal crank, crank locking bolts, pedal stems, seat post, seat post locking ring, rear mech, front mech, handlebars, handlebar grips, handle bar tape, handle bar stop ends, chain, split link, shifters, wheel rims, spokes, spoke rim nipples, hubs, quick release bars, wheel locking nuts, front stem, fork stem, saddle, saddle angle adjuster, saddle adjuster locking bolt, bottom bracket, tyres, inner-tubes, valves, dust caps, brakes, brake blocks, brake cables, cable stops, brake levers, brake cable adjusters, pedals, paint, company logo, reflectors, cassette, gear cables, bell, front light, rear light, water bottle holder, water bottle holder bolts, rivets, forks, headset, and gear hanger it's a wooden bike.
Same goes for carbon fiber bikes, only the frame is carbon fiber, you still call it a carbon fiber bike
It's a matter of convenience not accuracy. This is done for public consumption. People, like yourself, who are educated in such things are not confused about it.
Traceur Snow Yeah but you can get full carbon components on your bike.
Carbon forks, rims, spokes, hubs, brakes, levers, seatposts, pedals, crank arms, handelbars, riding shoes with carbon fibre base plates in them.
Traceur Snow Not true, carbon fiber bikes like mine make up more than the frame being carbon. You must not ride much.
Bailey Harper The point is, if a bike frame is carbon fiber, you call it a carbon fiber bike. Same case here. Further, most of the additional things on your carbon bike could be made from wood, as well. But most importantly, you're missing the point. The owner of Renovo is not saying that wood is better than every other material. He is saying that it is better than some other materials in some ways. And moreover, that what he is building is not just supremely functional, but also beautiful and lasting. Of course it's not the perfect material, but it is very good at a lot of things.
Dude try to think a little with your own head!
THE WEAKNESS OF WOOD STRUCTURE ARE THE JOININGS. IF YOU CAN IMAGINE THE SECTION OF THE WOOD FRAME (5:50) YOU WILL SEE THAT IT IS A PIPE, A PIECE OF HOLLOW WOOD!
IF IT BREAKS YOU CAN TRY TO REPAIR IT WITH ANOTHER PIECE OF WOOD ( THAT YOU WILL SPEND A LOT OF TIME TO CREATE AND THAT WILL NOT BE HOLLOW WOOD BECAUSE IT WILL TAKE A LOT MORE HOURS TO BE MADE), BUT YOU WILL OBTAIN, AT THE END, AN EXTREMELY WEAK JOINT EASY TO BREAK.
Ask to any Carpenter!
Give me that bike and Ill give you back a pile of splinters after 30 minutes of riding. They look cool though you should try making one of ivory or bone.
I don't understand why anyone would say wood is not stiff in torsion. I found a reference that gives the Modulus of Rigidity as 1.7E6. Steel is 11.5E6 but ten times heavier than wood. With a lighter material it is possible to exploit the advantage of a larger diameter. Seems to have a lot of potential.
***** Harness does not enter into a question of flexibility.
***** Your illusions are your own. My comment is about the torsional stiffness of the frame. This affects the stability of the bicycle. You have conjured up some meaningless scenario that has nothing to do with my comment. Go troll somewhere else.
Great !
They're beautiful, but you're not gonna take even their heaviest bike on a true down hill run.
I Build Custom Lap Steel Guitars ! You have to know how to work the Curves letting the wood Flow Free .
The only convenience I had with my folding bike, was that it didn't take up as much space as a solid frame. All other problems remained---it even added a few that solid frame bikes don't have.
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Case & point: folding bikes have tiny, tiny, tiny tires. You're constantly peddling just to maintain momentum---never any moments to coast.
Kisten I love all your videos, but I liked this one more because I'm a cyclist
The forks on backwards
These bike are beautiful. But i'm a mountain biker. I'm pretty sure the use i have for my bike would ruin these. Mud and rain and a wood frame? Can see that being a very poor combination. Maybe in a city bike in a nice dry climate.
very niche.
Strange that the head of the company was riding an ill fitting bike & looked uncomfortable, awkward & unaccustomed of riding.
im down to sculpt my own frame
Update:Renovo has gone out of business in October of last year.
I just discovered this video today, sad to know that it went out of business. I googled it and read the article on how it all happened. They couldnt keep up with the demand.
I really enjoy your videos, but the music makes them hard to watch. It drowns out what the people are saying...I can't hear them. Quieter music, please.
I'd so much rather have a nice bicycle than a crappy car.
i like!!!
COOL
the materials and tools used to make these bikes are not easy to come by in third world countries. therefore it would just be easier to get a regular bicycle.
Why the music it’s very annoying.... ???
It's going to suck when it snaps on you while your riding
It sucks when any frame material snaps on you while riding. Unlike the other common frame materials, and especially that of carbon fiber, it is a lot easier to inspect visually for critical damage that may lead to a catastrophic failure in wood.
By the way, Renovo shares a story of one of their MTBs suffering a non-catastrophic failure in I believe the drive-side chainstay on a hard fall on rocks. The bike was ridden several miles back to the car before being sent in for a repair, which did not necessitate the replacement of the frame.
Is wood the end-all frame material? Nope, but these frames are stout as hell.
In my imaginary world. I'd love to see a CNC back to back wooden human powered velomobile with a 85% balsa wood shell for $2k. Why human powered? I work in the medical field.. easily 90% of the money spent in health care and the real reason costs are so high are we "live" (really die) to avoid using our bodies in an elegant manner like biking or walking when practical or eating, sleeping wisely. But, like I said, my imaginary world.