OCG Players didn't know about Runick Combo Decks
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- [Streamed Live on 9th August, 2023]
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#JoshuaSchmidt #masterduel #yugioh
OCG Players 🤜not reading cards🤛TCG Players
This shows that no matter where we are from, sometimes we just don't read the cards.
Someone Tag me so I have to respond here. As OCG National Finalist who is the first* NatRune Top in OCG. People knew that it is existed. There is just not a lot of people see the deck in action until I did. A lot of people dms me to ask for suggestion but there ain't a lot of Japanese people. Even thou my report is definitely well-known in Japan. Because there they still value the power of stun runick as "the best stun deck" and feel like as combo deck. Runick is kinda lack luster. (Because yeah NatRune is more or less A Midrange who focus on bring just enough to win board) when compare to other combo deck that still legal in OCG. But most other OCG country (esp. Korea) really enjoy NatRune and Another Rune various beside Stun as well.
Honestly it more from the fact that people in Japan still think Stun have better match up overall. Which make them less likely to be prepare when NatRune pop off.
Does this gonna make people play more NatRune? Yeah maybe they will pick it up again and either value it this time or it will repeat as people will still think Stun is better suit in OCG/MD meta lol
Also congrats for you journey man. Time to check out your vdo.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your insight
playing runic combo in the ocg is as if you could show up to worlds with a tcg exclusive deck that just happened to be tier 1
Why? Are they missing pieces for it or what? If they have all the deck legal it's just a deck building skill issue
@@vanidemo OCG have always underestimated and underused Runick. The prevailing opinion of it before it was released in TCG was that it just wasen't good enough, and barely topped at all. They just never let go of that idea. Even now they really only play Runick Stun if at all.
@@vanidemodifferent mindset. The ocg view runick as a mill deck that chunked at your opponent slowly. The tcg saw it as a deck with 20 instant fusions
Nah ocg people didnt think of it as a combo piece in the 1st place cause ocg people have maxx c to think of before making a deck that makes an underwhelming board that gives so much draw under maxx c, unless ofc they hace ash/cbtg/crossout every game
@@fuwattowashere250 well the biggest ocg tcg difference is that if tcg players had the ocg banlist they would just ignore maxx c, you lose if they activate it otherwise so much broken shit I'd legal that you just win. that is not how ocg players think which results in them not even knowing what runic cards actually do
I wanna see "Live JP Player" reaction to his plays
The commentary that was mentioned in chat would be nice to upload as a clip.
Ocg players probably don't look into tcg formats because they're ahead in card releases and banlists. Also having formats after the ocg means we have longer to analyse decks and come up with decks they wouldn't have thought of.
I think languagebarrier and youtube landscape is also a reason. Over there, there is no prog series, road of the king analysis and so on. Ppl tend to stay in the ocg bubble
@@martinschoofs1932 Yeah you would be surprised how little English they still speak in Japan. Even in a huge university which had international programs and tons of international students the language barrier was a real issue with Japanese students
That's worse then. They've had access to Naturia/Runick for longer than us yet the moment Tear was unplayable the TCG hopped on it and Sacred Tree went to 1.
Meanwhile the OCG is still 10% coping on high-roll Tear decks.
@thorscape3879 they're coping much more on Tear cuz they have PePega Ruler in their game god knows why they still are coping that Ruler isn't a problem card.
@@LynnLyns Because without Ruler they can't cope on Tear. It's copium for the copium deck.
What's additionally odd about some of their misplays into the naturia side of the deck is that the OCG were on naturia decks for a brief period of time during ishizu tear format, playing ishizu naturia. Like you'd think they know about at least what that part of the deck does???
Naturia is underused in OCG a lot, doing the time earth GS was good most people play 60 without any Naturia main deck because the slot alr full, so soup usually contain Ishizu/ Adam/ ShS and Hts with no room for Nat
TearNat is also a gimmick that people pick up and deem not worth it because it hurt consistently quite a lot.
So yeah it not uncommon to think that he might lack experience with Naturia, infact if you check his tweet i don't think I see his report with Naturia deck before
Yeah I'm pretty sure many ocg decks were forced to include 3 maxx c and 3 ash so fitting enough into 40 cards is tough. And yes going over 40 is a thing to do, and I've done it with tear as well, but even if you include some cool mill ideas in over 40, the mirror becomes more difficult because your opponent likely can stop your plays easier and even more consistently. And even then, ocg players and tcg players even with a similar deck, I'm sure each plays the deck differently.
@@blitzcam bro what are you talking about that has no correlation with the original statements
It was like 2 different guys who played that naturia Ishizu deck
it took first places at KGCS events however, there's no shot they couldn't be bothered to look at a deck that was actively winning at some point to know the basics on how to interact with that side of the deck
As an OCG player I really like how you guys in TCG build some deck like runic spright while in OCG they just floodgate
Hey I did play NatRune and SprightRune in Thailand man. At least you can be proud that the best (self-proclaim) runic player in Thailand play ComboRune
@@hassachaiengchuan7939 You know I'm Thai too, lol.
@@hassachaiengchuan7939Malaysia’s Duelist Cup was also won by Naturia Runick too - there’s even an regular player of it at my locals.
Josh also clicking ‘yes’ gives me vibes 🤣
Button yellow YEP
in one hand ocg players get to test decks beforehand so they have more experience in the new deck but tcg players on the other hand get to experiment with other strategies after ocg already discovered the obvious and sometimes sub optimal ones
ocg players can also continue to try and innovate after it first releases?
@@CardQueenEileentcg players can take their time innovating decks & combos. Ocg got their time spend on grinding ranking duel (source: I just experienced grinding for ranking duels for the last 2 months)
In Indonesia (new OCG region btw) we know the existence of naturia runick, spright runick, and fur hire runick. We know the stun variant too but someone in my locals said the JP players were stone headed about other runick variants
5+ worlds wins in a row have taught them to ignore TCG, but they didn't account for the covid boom actually making the TCG competitive. Now, it's just arrogance.
@@cynthiacrescentwhich is why second amendment turbo won worlds...
OCG players used Runick exclusively as a mill deck.
Yes only its good
Ocg players are trash at ygo
Yes, and they vehemently stayed like that despite the splashability of fur hire and naturia
@@hoshi314 OCG players didn't even look at Tearlaments until the Ishizu cards came out, even when TCG players were labbing Casino Tear.
Naturia Runick: "I am about to end these guys' whole career"
OCG Players: "I don't even know who you are"
Naturia Runick: "You will"
“You do not know what I’m doing to this man when I have a tip”
I wish Josh had shown some of those OCG tweets on stream, it'd be funny
Not knowers: WHY DOES HE KEEP GETTING CURSES?!
Knowers: Why does he keep getting curses?
Most of the comments talking about ocg/tcg, but I think the most interesting thing is that this was a master duel event. It's not like paper worlds, where it's difficult to play the format. You could play the format 24/7 for weeks before the event!
And naturia runick had existed in master duel since the support was released. Comments are saying that the ocg always plays stun runick, but MD has had several metas where runick spright was extremely popular.
I saw naturia runick multiple times in the WCS qualifiers, which at least the leader of this team would have played in (and a lot more of runick spright). Even randos in diamond/master clearly understand simple things about the strategy, like sunflower not being OPT, how camellia works, the BP etc in my experience playing it.
I have to assume this player plays the paper game and doesn't play MD, and that the leader was too busy to explain how to play against it.
Ever since the support got released, I only ever ran into a single player using Naturia Runick besides me. It felt like everyone slept on the deck and went for other alternatives. So I guess you just got (un)lucky being matched against them.
Josh's rationale and gameplay is so insightful and shows why he is deserving to be a world champion. Even his game against jesse was amazing.
OCG players sees Mysterune (Runik for us) as a stall/control deck while us TCG see Runik cards as a bunch of Instant Fusion with extra effects that can go +3 everytime we feel like and goes well as an engine for other combo variants.
Different mind sets
Also no Maxx C so combo version is more attractive
@@lungisatakane772yeah Maxx C is a BIG deal in this case
The main reason rune doesn't appealing as combo deck to us is in fact, draw 3 is pretty much normal when deck like Chaos Ruler.dek / Earth Soup ShS and much more do A LOT more than just draw randomly and make a board.
Like why you try to play deck that draw 3 and make beast when you can play deck that search 3 and make beast + extra that also can win you if grass resolved instead? That is the reason why runick doesn't view as combo deck here. Simply just there is better combo to play
But there is no better control/floodgate to play beside runick, which also reason why another control deck isn't good here tooo
@hassachaiengchuan7939 Honestly, I dont understand how you can deal with PePega Ruler and Engine Samurai there.
I played 2 games against Samurai on DB, and I got bored of it. Also, I hope on OCG CR gets banned soon cuz that card is the main reason for the players to still cope on Tearlaments
MaxxC. MaxxC is the reason why they only play it as stun deck. Its the only deck that can chain around maxxC and end board consists of 1 special summon and floodgates. If opponent chains maxxC drawphase you activate special from extradeck.
If you activate special from extradeck and they chain maxxC you can chain a srcond runic card and special from extradeck again. Yes you lose the first runic card fizzling but you get to draw 2 cards anyways again
I think more people in Southeast Asia plays more Combo Runick decks than stuns, at least that's what popular in my country. That's what beautiful having both active format ig, we see both TCG and OCG decklist to copy and implement in OCG locals.
Yeah, the same in my country
big brothers don't usually care what the smaller brother is doing but the small brother likes to look at everything he is doing
5 heads fix for a smooth brain misplay, still dope tho.
13:07 "If i have a tip, you don't wanna know what I'm doing to this man"
Calm down josh there's children watching 😂
Funnily enough, a good number of MD Players weren't aware of the existence of Naturia Runick based off of how little I see the Deck in Ranked. I don't know how people discovered the Naturia Runick variant, but I personally discovered it through Landoise having synergy with Runicks as well as Naturia working very well as a Stun Engine for Runicks
Really, I'm convinced that Yugioh Players don't know Naturia too well beyond Barkion, Beast and Exterio. It's why they generally get caught off-guard when they see cards beyond them
People knew about Naturia/Runick on release of DABL with Blessing but at the time the game was dominated by Tear. Once Tear became unplayable the deck saw play and Sacred Tree was quickly limited, killing the deck dead.
@@thorscape3879 but thats TCG...we talkin aboit ocg players not knowing
@@chitahitsu4743 OP asked how people discovered the interaction between Runick and Naturia; I gave the answer. I also gave a short history of the deck.
I have seen responses that said they knew the existence of naturia Runick but it not as relevant due to what dominating the meta at the time. Also in Japan they see runick more of a stall deck than anything so that why the most popular way they play it is Runick stun.
I've just bought runick and started testing it in patroll. I'm in love with the archetype and now i'm trying to make it fit in ebery deck i have, thanks for making me want to play it, josh (now i hope it won't be whooped by the banlist)
Can someone give me the link of them going crazy because of runick combo?
Here for the link too
Me 3
want link please
Same
Would be nice.
The funny thing is that the opponent, Sea Archer, has posted Runick guide before. But I think he was using the stun variant of Runick with the pendulum scale and Amano. This could explain why he is not as familiar with the Naturia x Runick build. In terms of the spright built I believe he uses Double Cross over Smasher
"It was a two head play into a five head play so on average it was a three point five head play"
Ocg Players don't experiment enough.
They experiment a lot but totally different to tcg because they fear certain cards .
@@kyuuketsuki2494 I feel like tcg players take big risk and try every possibility they can think of and if it sux they go onto the next thing. Only time i see ocg doing this is with tear cause they can't let it die.
They dont have the time tgc players have. We have 6 months to lab before release + the 6 months before it gets banned. + we have ocg ressources for archive
@@I_am_Kuro I agree with this for paper play but whats the excuse for MD then?
@@ASoldierifyand even then, we in the TCG came up with Casino Tear (tear w dangers)
Honestly after I finally learned the naturia card through the raika I can say it is a very complicated deck and from what I know most people in my area don't really like that kind of stuff
This is by far my favorite game of the whole tournament, it was very fun to watch as the board crumbled.
RUNICK BEST DECK BABYYY!!!
This reminds me of the TCG never playing zefra combo for some reason. Even without electrum, it wasn't half bad. Maybe our brains were just too small.
It’s funny because I don’t really lose to the Runick part of the deck if I do fight Runick pure, I seem to always win the matches. Not true, sometimes they’re mixed. Only reason is because I’ll summon Leo Dancer and Dark Destroyer and they sit there and go, “What am I doing to this?”
reading naturia cards is tough
Funny enough naturia cards have some of the easiest to read card text which is the worse part of all this lol.
@@ASoldierify it's easy to see the words since there aren't that many. it's not easy to accept how there are very few OPTs on them
@@drewbabeIt's easy to accept if you played back in 2010. The way the support enables the deck and + how much the game has sped up is why it's unbearable now. Seen alot of formats since I started playing competently in 2010(was 13 at my first locals), and it cards weren't printed to future proof them. Pre 2012 Konmai loves high ceiling, minimal limit card design, but tbf that's also not conducive to keeping your game alive.
I watched たすく's stream after worlds and he said that they researched what was popular in the TCG beforehand and they did know about Naturia Runick.
This isn't true tho, Im from OCG land and Runick Combo decks are popular even at events, not just locals.
Good video, congrats on your W
Can someone give the runick decklist he used in master duel wcs
he already did in a previous video
He's shared the list already. Man, I don't recommend playing the deck as it was meant for worlds, the shared card pool made them built it optimally for worlds, but if you plan on using it on ladder it may not play optimally, not to mention the format is different now
What the person above me said. You're better off searching another decklist.
OCG: This strategy only makes 3 inturruption from 8 summons.
TCG: This strategy makes 3 interruption from only 8 summons.
How different we view the game probably....
i think it's the other way around no?
No that is the correct way, you want less summons in OCG because BUG.
@@TheKastellan yea, that's what i'm saying, that's why the ocg wants 3 interruptions from only 8 summons while the tcg makes more interruptions with more summons
ocg and tcg seem reversed in his comment
@@poopoo7107no its in right order because it should show why ocg thinks the deck isnt valuable. It needs 8 whole summons (maxx c draws) for only 3 interruptions
That runick win was insane bro 😮
"What is that?" sounds like a Milano catchphrase at this point
Why is runik fountain not HOPT , the card design is bad on their part
Why is hugin not once per turn? Its a dumb deck
Fountain is Peak Konami incompetence.
Spell and trap based decks need extra ways to draw cards or recur because monsters are more likely to have effects and then also have a body that can go into extra deck monsters that have effects. I don't think the design is terrible but kinda gets broken when you play it as the infinite instant fusions combo deck. If the goal was to make a control mill deck it need the non once per turn to mill people out and not give them too much time since your deck is just a pile of conditional removal/one turn negates/stop damage type effects that aren't even 1 for 1s
@@awqweird This is the answer. yugioh is mostly monster centric, and monsters have staying power. pure runick's basis was bypassing monsters to attack the deck, thus the vast majority of Runick plays only affect the board so much, and even when you do play it as a mill, it's version of mill has some matchups where all your doing is handing your opponent a winning ticket, either because you can't hold them back or because your deck inherently powers theres.
but if you treat runick as just a bunch of instant fusion level variations with no care to the mill, you can bypass some level of preservation of the Runick cards, build a bigger board, get conditional interactions, and all it costs you is one battle phase you have to out-advantage your opponent by. you basically have to play in a format with mass milling and no shufflers/magic banish in order to benefit from multiple fountains effectively, unless your actively milliing yourself as well. in order to handicap the combo version, you have to kill runick as it's intended method of playing the deck.
In other words, when the TCG puts fountain to 1 like the OCG did, you might still see Runick combo if it's competitive enough. because the TCG treats yugioh like a fighting game.
@@awqweirdbut without obscene restrictions it only lets them be abused. Being able to draw 3 cards multiple times per turn with no drawbacks is horrible card design
Imagine if exosister martha or mathmech circular didnt lock you into exosisters/cyberse, or if a card like freaking Joker's Straight didnt lock you into LIGHT warriors from the ED
They would be abused to hell and back even if you had to play a few garnets. Brilliant Fusion already made that point very clear
How many Geri did you run?
runick is common on ladder though in master duel are they just stupid?
it's honnestly not, i finished master 1 today and i think i encountered 2 runnick decks during the whole climbing, one being stun (ugh) the other being furr hire
it's not because it's not good imo, just that it takes 10000 years to win a game, and thus is not very good to ladder with
Maybe in lower ranks? I usually see Tear, Spright, Dlink, Lab, and Exo on Master.
@@toto789landyeah on my m1 climb the other day I played 1 runick stun and 1 nat runick mirror.
And ngl they played the mirror really bad it was a free win
Nat runick what's that? Hahahahahha just kidding but so far I don't see that shit in ladder it's always tear, branded, and now Kash also some SS also it's weird I don't see spright anymore I guess I'll use spright hahhahah
Death of the author, Josh: there's no way to be certain that you didn't intentionally bring back Molecricket to dunk on them harder, which is BM.
What's the music?
TCG players see Runick as an engine, while OCG players see it as a stand alone strategy, and it would be rude not to fill the spaces with floodgates. Thanks, Maxx "C".
TCG players wanna go fast, so they strap engines to everything they can. I tend to prefer runick as a stand alone myself. sign of the difference in approaches.
@@DarkCT in a world without maxx c u gotta go fast, cuz everyone else will
@@chitahitsu4743 Nah. it's more fun for me to try and counter combo then join in with it in most cases. be it going second intentionally designs, alt-wincons or otherwise, I just prefer doing things another way.
They did not do their homework.
Should have put a "NANI!?" in the thumbnail imo
Lol. BEWARE THIS MAN'S TIP!
TCG W
Honestly, it seems to me that most OCG players are ignorant to what happens in TCG play. TCG players are well aware of what is happening in the OCG and they study the format while from what I’m getting from OCG players is that they don’t know really anything from the TCG like being unaware of Runick variations, not knowing about Maxx c being banned, the banlist philosophy in general or really the gameplay style of TCG play. I don’t know if this is willful ignorance, OCG players simply not caring, a hard language barrier or something else. Hopefully this worlds opens their eyes to at least understanding TCG play.
They probably assume they are the superior region, why checkout the inferior region?
Tcg advantage
Not caring and being ignorant are the same thing.
Language barrier is a poor excuse as we have sites that reinstate cards the day they are announced in the OCG. There's no way that in all of South-East Asia there is not a single person doesn't speak English and looks in to the TCG meta.
Bro calm down why mention southeast when the player in the video is infact from Japan I'm from southeast and we didn't even have a yugioh tournament here or cards that sell it I just rely on MD for yugioh.
@@jetherarroz1118 Because I'm bad at geography. The entirety of East Asia then.
blud saving herald for next game
I think you mean 'my opponent didnt know naturia runick'
I would agree if this happened on TCG worlds
Ocg players: what do you mean I can play 16 instant fusion in my deck? U crazy?
Is that badbadnotgood in the background?
No, it's like a smooth jazz version of zelda music I believe.
Unless they did covers of it? 🤔
Misplaying but having the out to not get punished. It is always that way.
Jee, it's almost like Maxx C warps a format around not just in terms of what staples see more play, but also what decks get to exist or not.
He stated that he chose to play this deck specifically because of how well it plays into maxx c so, thats not why ocg didnt play it.
I cut ash for my Md list lmao maxx isn’t a big deal for this deck, often you can give your opp a -1 and end with a decent board still
Nah, the extra draws just make it easier to deck people out with Runick decks, and as a backrow heavy deck you can choose not to play heavily into it, and as a Stun deck you can cut off oppponents from their plays regardless of how many draws it takes if you know what you're doing. If anything Maxx "C" and the "bricks" other decks needed to play around it are an asset to basically every Runick variant.
Nat runick plays beautifully around maxx c. You normal cricket, activate fountain, and go. Cricket represents 2 omnis or a bphase skip on its own, and fountain represents infinite runicks. At worst you give them 1 draw to search fountain.
Japanese players dont know about tcg meta decks because:
1. Language barrier.
2. Different banlist and we usually get cards before tcg players.
Side note, why Josh twitch chat and youtube comment section are as toxic as chernobyl each time he talking about the OCG (i know it's not his fault)?
@@quangchau3907Almost every western yugituber chat/community members just simply parrot the general "OCG bad TCG good haha Maxx C brainrot and Tear cope" opinion, but more often than not these people are the ones who still believe OCG is Bo1 and just a locals with bad deckbuilding. The more reasonable people's voice are buried under these noise sadly.
@@iliveintechnicolor Hell, this is not even the problem of OCG vs TCG. It's Japan specifically that are novel to the idea of NatRunick, not OCG as a whole. Some people really want to turn anything and everything into maxx c debate.
@@namelessanonymous2913 I was replying to the toxic as chernobyl comment man. Sorry I didn't make it clearer.
@@iliveintechnicolor I know, I'm agreeing with you and only wanted to add to the subject.
OCG players cannot conceptualize decks that don't lose to Ash Blossom/"C" because nearly a third of all of their decks are all built around one card.
If you just play in to it they don't know what to do because they aren't playing all the other powerful cards we are use instead of the "C" minigame cards.
They will never use the combo in runick as long they have maxx c
Literal skill issue.
Runick kashtira best deck
we can be certain of one thing, ocg doesnt know how to combo play, they get the cards early, but do nothing with them
Because of maxx c
I still find it hilarious that the OCG never realized that Runic is essentially 4 to 5 instant fusions paired with a draw 3. Like it's the biggest no brainer that this would be insane for combos.
I hate runick doesn't feel like yugioh, you wait til you draw the outs and put nothing on board watching your entire deck get banished
U bad bro
This thumbnail so racist 😂
Classic asian letters opponent in MD
I'm so glad people are realizing ocg players are trash at the game and their format is the worst way of playing yugioh
Yet prior to this they won the previous what, 8-9 World Championships? I get there is a lot of TCG pride right now between MD and the TCG win, and I am happy too. But lets not be revisionist here, the OCG has cracked players and they have their wins for a reason.
@@toadallynoodle5414 they have their wins because they had product 4 months ahead of us and an advantage with the banlist, but a regular tcg player could win any ocg tournament with a tier 10 deck. They won't win a world championship ever again
@@jpgomez02 I mean, if you say so, I'll screenshot this in case of the next time the OCG wins a World Championship.
Fine by me
@@jpgomez02 ah yes, the good old "ocg players win world because they have product first, but when tcg win world then it's all about skill" mindset a.k.a the most stupid mindset
I find this incredibly hard to believe. sorry dislike.
Can't run Unicorn if you're locked to 2's pepega
You are not in opponent's turn.
Unless you use starter.
Tell me you’re stuck in Bronze hell without telling me.
Wow look a pepega hahahahha ha he isn't lock with 2s because it isn't his turn and he don't use starter.
OCG lowkey trash 😂
what i dont get is like i have faced naturia decks in master duel how have they not faced them and dont know what the cards do
Naturia’s archetype is huge, lots of monsters with interesting effects, good against kashtira
Except that only Sunflower and Scared Tree are seeing play, every other Naturia card that is even worth looking at are the new ones
the reason the jp player wasnt on unicorn was because he was on goddess. spright lacks the ed space to run both goddess and unicorn and it's genuinely 50/50 on which is more useful. every time you play unicorn you end up running against something that needs goddess to answer it and every time you run goddess you wish you were on unicorn. the only REAL misplay homie made was not going into arclight the second you triggered catty. you didn't have a battle phase so he didn't have to worry about the traditional answer to arc light which is to beat over it.
Also they were using Merry Melffys on the hypothetical slot for Unicorn.
The ONLY real misplay? Manufacturing his own catch-22 with Sunflower isn't a misplay?
Ummm idk what deck list you have but spright isn't really that extra deck heavy that you can't put unicorn in there I even have it on my deck you should always remember not pitting merry melfys? Idk if that's right because it's freaking useless it's better to go arc light everygame so that's 1 free.
@@jetherarroz1118 Merry is not useless, it can be better than arc in many cases as it disrupts right away unlike arc that can be run over and accomplish nothing. Also, Spright IS tight on ED slots, specially when you mix it with other archetypes. So much so that he was running just 2 Elfs instead of 3, which is the ideal for grind games.
Do you really need Goddess more than Unicorn? Can Spright not beat over Towers?