Mega, thanks for watching! Glad you felt the comparison was worthwhile. I found it to be a bit of a surprise and also a very tight race for these files. They will all do the job, some a little better here or there. Be safe, take care!
Hi John, Great video with a lot of filing, which is almost as good as sanding. Thank you for testing for us. I will remember this if my current non-diamond fret file wears out. Stay safe, my friend, Jens
Jens, good to hear from you and thanks for watchin! Your cut tooth files will last forever, no need to throw money out the window on these items. Take care my friend!
Michael, thanks for watching! Honestly there could be six different outcomes. Each user will likely want, feel, see things differently. My takeaway from all this, was a bit of surprise. The Baroque was far better than I expected, especially for the price. It is a rather large file compared to the others, and doesn't really fit certain use situations easily. The StewMac Compact centered Z file was also very much a surprise. I've since sent it back to SM. It was just too uncomfortable for me to use. Honestly, I didn't see that coming. I've continued to attempt to use the Music Nomad S-File, which is a really cool and well designed file, but it really doesn't deliver a final finish. To me, it is a rough-work file, that needs to be followed by another file. I have ideas for their version 2 file, but I doubt that they are listening. Too much love and hype for the file as it is currently. Good luck with your projects!
@@theNextProject Nooooo. Talk to Rand - he is the Owner of Music Nomad, and a Great guy to do business with. I have about 12 of their products. Good Luck brother. oNe LovE from NYC
@@theNextProject I have used the Baroque on 2 guitars with extra jumbo frets and they came out really good...the straight handle is kinda hard to work with but once I did the crowning and polishing on the frets I forgot all about that..I have to do at least 1 of my guitars frets on several of the the frets and was just looking around..where I live out in the boonies the nearest guitar luthier that could do this job is at least 100 + miles away from me so I had to learn how to do this out of necessity...this is a great video here for sure.
GQ, thanks for watching! I love your channel and videos = great stuff! Thanks for all the work you share. This "test" was rather interesting (to me), not at all what I expected in the end, and really, really hard to put in a ranked order. All of the files can, and do, a good job. Not all of them "feel" good however, even if they do work well. Then, there are shortcomings of one variety or another. No perfect file, but a good sample of a number of "good" files. I keep trying to use the lower ranked files from this test, hoping to reveal something I missed. Continually find myself using one of two files for final work... They are consistent in results and easy to use, at least for me. Thanks again!
I loved every aspect of this! I have used the MusicNomad and was rooting for it but lost myself in the video presentation, the wry humor, and your knowledge base. I will still use it, albeit more knowledgeably - now with cutting oil (thanks to the embedded subliminal tutorial) ! Liked and subscribed.
Michael (Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo Violet) thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed the video. It's hard not to love the MusicNomad file. It's a great piece of engineering design. I just used it again last weekend, hoping something new would "pop up", but it does what it is designed to do. It does that really well too, but it's leaving a bit too wide of crown for me. I've been trying to "cheat" the file, leaning it side-to-side, much like I do with the StewMac Z file. The results aren't the same, at least for me. I can easily see what I'm doing with the SM-Z, but the MusicNomad-S seems to block my POV, and I feel a bit blind when using it in such a manner. Running it upright feels natural, as it was designed to do. It is a great tool for starting the repair of heavily worn frets, and finishing with a second file for the thin crown. At least that's how I'm approaching it. As for oil, just a drop on the diamond grit of the file. Do your filing on the fret, wipe the fret and the file with a paper towel. Add a new drop of oil, hit the next fret.... later, rinse and repeat. You probably won't have to actually "clean" your file. At least not a deep cleaning to remove embedded fret debris. Thanks for your sub, welcome to the family of doing things for no good reason. Be safe and take care!
I'm actually a bit baffled by this video. I have used the Music Nomad file and I get a needle tip crown every time I use it, it's much thinner than the results in this video. Maybe there are some QC issues and he got a lemon.
Returnality, thanks for watching! Your "needle tip" crown width using the MN S-File is baffling to me. I have to really cheat the file, leaning it greatly side-to-side to get a narrow-ish crown width. This is a process I use with the StewMac original Z-file, but that's how the SM-Z is designed to be used. I find the side-to-side process with the MN-S file a bit awkward in comparison. Kinda like driving with my eyes shut. The S-file, as designed has a ±1/32" wide safety rib to skate on the leveled crown area. I like the design idea of this. But it also wants to leave a ±1/32" wide crown unless the file is leaned side-to-side, which I feel defeats the design intent. I also find the leaning of the file yields a less than true crown. Since I'm getting a finish crown close to 1mm wide, I have to either cheat the file, or just grab another file... which I typically do. Please let me know the process you are using with the S-file to get such fine final crown lines. Would be interesting to hear your process and take on the tool. Thanks again for watching, be safe and take care!
@@theNextProject I took a closer look at my S-file and compared it to yours. Mine has a MUCH thinner center line to my eyes. This seems to be a QC issue. I personally dislike the S-file anyways because it leaves incredibly harsh tool marks that are just an absolute pain to get rid of. Right now my go to is the normal fret dagger 2.0. It's fast, effective, and doesn't leave abysmal scratches all over the frets.
Could be. My S-File has a fat 1/32" (± 1mm) wide safety rib. Works pretty good until it hits the rib, then it's built-in features kinda come to a halt. If I rock the file side-to-side for a finer crown, I'm cheating the file design, and might as well use a different file. Maybe I did get a dud, idk. I really like the idea, but not the function and as you mention the coarse cut too. I find it to be a rough-work file, which I don't need too often.
I mostly use the StewMac Z files, the offset works best in my opinion. I have used the Dagger 2.0 and have liked the results. Great video! Thanks for sharing it!
I have a few crowning files as I am just getting into this now . . . I was really looking at the SM Z-files and think this may be my next file . . . just gotta save up a few $$ . . .😎 . . . 👍👍
Tom, thanks for watching, sorry I missed your comment until now. Sadly all tools are expensive, I hope this vid helps with potential future purchase. Be safe and take care!
Really amazing video. Also interesting, ironic and somehow appropriate. This week I’ve been working closely with the factory where the Diamond Dagger file is made, and exploring every possible way to squeeze any more improvement from the file’s performance, function, comfort and durability…. which is actually a never ending process. So as I’m sitting in the hotel restaurant having dinner after a long day, mindlessly scrolling through RUclips… into my feed pops this video! Have to admit I was a bit apprehensive to click the play button... 😬 But I have to give major props on the thorough and rigorous testing methods, and the punishing fret file torture laboratory you’ve created! It was quite riveting and suspenseful to watch (for a guitar nerd)… regardless of the results. Did I expect to (co)win? Not really… Being the the little guy going up against the private equity owned and funded behemoth that Stew-Mac has become, as well as many other larger, well funded companies who often make some quality tools (which I also use), I expected to be at least competitive. Guess it just goes to show that an innovative idea, when well thought out and carefully executed, can compete, or often beat a huge brand. So I think we can call this a win 😉 While continually striving to do better. If anyone has questions about the Diamond Dagger, or any other FretGuru tools, reply here in the comments, or reach out to me at the obvious FretGuru website. Ask for Bernie.
Bernie, thanks for watching, and the really great comment too! To be honest, this test was really tough to call. All of these files are right there, all at the heels of the next one. That made it tough, my ranking shifted continually, but when the dust settled... Each file I tested has its strengths, whether it was price, fit and finish, function, or just a little bit of everything. I was impressed by the Baroque file, actually better than I expected for the money and the downside (for me) was the overall size which limits its ease of use in all areas. Detached necks would be fine, but acoustics, set necks situations require some gymnastics with this file. Maybe the biggest surprise was my complete distaste for the StewMac Compact Z-file, which has such a (cult) following, I felt I was missing something. However, I could barley use it for more than a few frets without it cutting into my hand...nope, it has gone back to StewMac ( SM does have a great customer service ). The affordable offset (knock off) file from Bitterroot guitars, is actually a pretty good file. Once I got beyond the extremely sharp edges as delivered (I softened the edges), it actually worked pretty well. It was more versatile than the Baroque, due to the rounded (spot crowning) ends. The MusicNomad was my expected winner before I started the test. It really is a nicely designed tool. I know it went through testing and research, but once I used it I questioned what I was doing wrong. I was really disappointed, and figured that I must suck at this stuff, but I kept at it.... It delivered what it was designed to do, and that is to coarsely file a reasonably wide crown. A lot of my work begins about where the MN S-file stops. I've continued to try it, and if I "cheat" the built-in design safety-limitation, I can get the crown a bit thinner but still need to reach for a finish-file. Perhaps no one else goes for thin crown lines. Maybe it is just me! That left me with the SM Original Z, which I've used for a number of year, and your DD 2 file which is new to me. I am very use to the way the offset "V" of the SM Z-file works, so I can easily get a pretty good crown. Your DD 2 file was easy to understand and navigate with no on-ramp time wasted. I see the SM original Z requiring more user training and attention, and its next tier pricing, kept it from cleanly taking the top spot. It is a great file - for me. Your file has done well, surprised and impressed me a bit as too. I will continue to use and torture it on upcoming projects, comparing it with the other files over time as well. Slightly off topic, but I don't hear much about "lubrication" when using diamond fret files. I recently started using oil on the files (3 and 1 oil currently). I believe it may slow the cutting rate down a little, but the payoff is not needing to clean the file, and potentially longer file life. Time will tell. Side note, I do have you fret end file, been using that side-by-side with the SM end file . Honestly, your end file is my go-to. The SM end file is a bit anemic, but its small size is occasionally handy. Keep up the great work and products, we all appreciate it! Thanks again for watching and your comment, as I greatly appreciate your time. Be safe and take care, John D.
@@theNextProject Hey John, I appreciate your thoughtful, in depth comments, and have discovered and been enjoying your other videos as well! “…at the heels of the next one.” That’s a great description and visual, which could likely describe most every tool at your workbench and mine. As you’ve found, it’s rarely a day-and-night difference of any one tool (though there are some truly game-changing tools), but in finding that 1%-5% improvement in each tool and process, which creates the efficiency and puts the “flow” in your shop’s workflow. While also raising the level of the final result. I didn’t know until more recently there was a name for this 1%-5% principal, or philosophy (of sorts), though I’ve always subscribed to it. The principal is called “Aggregation of marginal gains”, which says, instead of looking for the large and dramatic improvements in any one place, consider the compounding effect of small 1% (or more) improvements, spread over the entire process, which - when added up can create dramatic results. So yes, super interesting - if unpredictable - results of your shootout. MN usually has good/great and innovative products, they typically set the bar fairly high, so their crowning file seemed like it would be a contender for the top spot. So that was a surprise. I’ve also tried the compact Z File, and also found it puzzling, fatiguing to use, and generally a half baked / poorly executed design. As well as the others in your test, which are also part of my extensive file collection, landing somewhere on the usable/useful/pretty darn good continuum. You’ve got me very intrigued about running a diamond file “wet”! Up to this point I’ve only tried Dyna Glide on a file with teeth. Will be trying this soon. You’re not alone… I’m also very obsessive about razor thin and precise crown lines. It was this obsession - as well as the disappointment with the tools that were currently available - that started me down the path of developing a file that could create these centerlines in a consistent, controllable and intuitive way, which resulted in the Dagger 2.0 (the one with steel teeth) and the Diamond Dagger you have. Glad to hear the FretGuru fret end file is serving you well. This was actually the first FretGuru “product”, which wasn’t really intended to be a product at all. It started as merely a solution to my being underwhelmed and disappointed with the SM fret end file - for similar reasons you are. It was mainly that the SM file is too narrow in width, which gives it an unstable platform to work from, and makes it too easy to lean / topple over, which would make the corner of the file dig a groove next to the fret. So after making a new design by extensively modifying a Swiss jeweler’s file, and being stoked with the results - and not thinking anything beyond my personal problem being solved… I then I had a good friend/exceptional luthier visiting the shop, and I said, “Hey, I just made this fret end file… give it a try and let me know how it works for you”. He was blown away by the function, and how stable it was, allowing him to slide right into the lowest corner of the fret, without any fingerboard damage. He immediately asked if I could make 6 of them for him and his guys, to which I reluctantly replied, “maybe”. Which then began to snowball as the word got out, which started many years of me personally making these fret end files by modifying Swiss jeweler’s files, to the point where my hands and wrists were ruined. Can you say “the opposite of profitable?” The secret sauce on these files (aside from the special tooth cut) is just how surgically/insanely flat and smooth the bottom of the file is. I’m not afraid of anyone copying this, because nobody would be stupid enough to go through what we do to make them so flat. These are still the opposite of profitable. You’ve probably noticed that FretGuru has a small, tightly focused product range. That’s by design. I figure you guys (or the market) don’t need another capo or string winder. So I only begin to design a tool when the current available options leave me disappointed, and only move forward if I’ve come up with something that I confidently feel can be game-changing - or at least significantly improve the experience and results while at the guitar workbench. If another company already has a product that performs at the highest level that I demand, then I generally won’t even bother to design or offer a similar product. We have a few game changers in the works, which have been in development for a few years. I’d be glad to give you a preview when they’re ready, in exchange for your astute observations and input. You can reach out to me at the obvious FretGuru website, or directly at: fretguru@ G Mayle dot com (in code so the bots and spammers don’t have a field day). Thanks again, I appreciate your dedication to this work! Bernie/FretGuru
Hey Bobby, Thanks for watching! I won't speak for Bernie, but I would expect the Diamond Dagger to work well on 43080 wire. For this test, I was using 51100 Jescar SS, and some StewMac nickel wire that was roughly the same. I also used the DD on a squire recently, it had pretty narrow wire and all went well. Hope this helps.
Great test. Thank you. My favourite fret crowning file by some margin is the StewMac Original Z-File. I agree it needs a little user input to make use of the offset angles to create a smooth transition to a fine crown.The Centred Z files don't work because they lack this offset. Most of my fret work is on new builds where any levelling is minimal and re-crowning to a fine line only takes a few strokes, but the Original Z-File also works well on frets that have required a more severe level. The Music Nomad file is very disappointing. Whilst it feels well made, I found that my marker lines would suddenly disappear, something I've never had happen with other fret files. Maybe the fret dust is getting trapped in the channel and rubbing off the marker? On more heavily levelled frets this file gets you in the ballpark, but for a light dress and re-crown this file is close to useless. Most Music Nomad kit is pretty good; they make the best string winder and bridge pin puller out there. I've not tried the other files you tested so cannot comment. The StewMac Original Z-File has transformed the speed I can re-crown compared with traditional triangular files. One expensive StewMac tool that is worth it, and with their lifetime guarantee you are only buying it once.
Nick, thanks for watching! Agreed, the SM Original Z is my typical go-to fret file. The MusicNomad file is pretty cool, but as you mention, it seems to have limited use. Hope all is going well for you, be safe and take care!
First comment! I am using the Baroque file along with a cheapy cheapy one I got in a set from Amazon. I was really wanting the MusicNomad one, especially after KnowYourGear praised it so highly. But, your saying the crown is too wide does make sense. I may try and upgrade my files soon, but the cost of all of ‘em is indeed a deterrent. Strat update! When we left our refinished Dakota Red Strat, I had buzzing on the low E on the 8th fret and complete buzz/dead notes above the fourteenth or fifteenth notes of all the strings until I went to the 21st fret. I used my fret rocker and found where the 8th fret began causing trouble, which was right next to the A string to the end. I filed and used my rocker, filed some more, repeated until it was flat. I then recrowned the fret and polished it up to 12000 grit. The 21st fret got taken care of in the same fashion, but I think I need to revisit it when I change strings. Realistically, I don’t play a lot on the high frets so I am okay with leaving it for a month or two.
Tim, good to hear from you and thanks for watching! I was actually pretty surprised by the Baroque G4, you do get a lot of file(s) for the money, and it actually did work well. The reason I didn't move it up in my ranking, really came to how I work, and it was a bit too big for half of what I do. I've actually thought about cutting the handle off of it, and making it a "spot" crowning all-in-one file. That sounds like work, hmm. I had see the KnowYourGear review too, and was expecting great things from th MusicNomad file. It is a really well made tool, and will do a great job of bringing overly flat-top frets back to a workable crown shape, but I then need another tool to finish the crown before dress and polish work. So, I'm wondering what Phil was doing in his video, as I'm not seeing the same workflow with the file that he presented. Oh well. Everyone has there thing. I'm re-reading your comments about the buzzing and dead notes. It sounds about like there may be a issue where the neck bolts to the body, around the 14th-15th fret. Almost like "ski-jump", or neck hinge. I'm working on an '89 strat, which had early onset ski-jump at that area. Good neck relief right up to +/- the 15th, then it appear the fret were getting higher and fretting out. As it turned out, the neck from the nut to the 14th, was starting to hinge and bow up. The area bolted to the body appears to kick-up, but it's really the rest of the neck that is folding over....that sounds scary. As part of a complete re-fret, I refreshed the radius and removed the "ski-jump" giving the neck a little fall-away. I also filed a little extra fall-away in to the frets from the 12th-22nd. I tested the top 4 files on that project, which was eye-opening. The MusicNomad was useless, as I didn't have any frets that had a wide enough crown for that file to help with. That's were I realised it will be a rough work file for frets with bigger issues. Hope you get your strat sorted out. Be safe and take care!
I bought the fret dagger 2.0...do you have any tips on using it ? I have used diamond fret files and own a couple but wanted to try the Dagger...looks like you can only "push it" and not back and forth.. I just realized that you used the Diamond Dagger 2.0 and not the standard Dagger 2.0 with the looks like cutting grooves...no wonder I found it for $45.
Ross, thank for watching! The Fret Dagger 2.0 gets really good reviews, and should be a good tool for you to have. I haven't used that particular file, but i have used gurian double-edge steel tooth files for a long time. Your file should cut really well, and if it is like they gurian, if not careful might leave some "chatter" marks. If you can, do some test filing to get the hang of the tool. Once you get the feel for it, you should have no trouble. Yes, the dagger 2.0 is a "one-direction" file, not a big deal as it should really cut well. Good luck with your projects!
I got my Fret Dagger 2.0 Gurian type file in and finally used it and it works great..got the thin red mark onmy fret crowns and buffed them up and now ready to go. @@theNextProject
I've come to the same conclusions as you after using Zfile & Baroque. You need a second file to finish the job. After passing the diamond file, there's still a plateau and you still need to pass a standard file to crown the rest of the fret. In any case, I've adopted the oil-on-diamond-file technique! Thanks for this!
Jauni Anisé, thanks for watching! I'm looking forward to hearing what others are experiencing using these and other files. I was rather surprised by this test, good and bad. The baroque file was actually better than I expected, the SM mini-Z was a huge disappointment. The MusicNomad S-file has a lot of great features, but I'm not sure who their test group was. I really need to follow the MN S-file with another file to get the crown thinned to an acceptable place (for me). I hope you have good luck with the oil-on-diamond technique. I really appreciate not spending the time cleaning and re-cleaning the diamond files when using oil in the process. Good luck with all your projects, take care!
Great info John, but they're all way out of my comfort zone so far as price is concerned. I'll be sticking with my triangle file with the safe corners until I find something better at the flee market. Thanks for taking the time. It's always a real pleasure to watch the next project.
Martin, thanks for watching! I hear ya, every option I tested was expensive, even the Baroque G4 has a price that makes me pucker a bit. All the others give me a sharp pain in my....wallet. I hope this test will offer some ideas and insight for others. I was/am a bit surprised that my observations don't align with a lot of social media reports. Maybe it's because I'm not selling anything, or perhaps my process is way off mark. IDK. I hope you are doing well, be safe and take care!
Cameron, thanks for watching! Yes, triangle files are a great tool too. I've had one since I got into this hobby, just don't reach for it very often any longer, but it is still a great tool and will do the job. Be safe and take care!
Hello, hello and thanks for watching! Great question, and potentially that could be the case. Typically the SM Original Z file, with the offset "V" surface, is worked in a way that rounds one side of the fret at a time. With each pass you angle the file slightly more upright, giving you a rounded fret side, while retaining a centered crown area. Then the file is flipped over and the other side of the file is used to round the opposite side of the fret, again filing from an angle to an upright path. Hopefully ending up with a center hairline crown. This process is why I mentioned that the StewMac Original Z-file requires the most user input. You are driving the file to position the center hairline crown. It takes a little practice, but the file can do a great job once the driver is trained. Most of the other files have a concave filing surface, and a different kind of attention is required. None of the files are "auto-pilot", but perhaps the closest to that would be the Music Nomad S-file. However I feel it stops short of reaching the destination. So, you need to reach for another file to finish the trip. Sorry for the weak analogies. I hope this helps explain the SM Original Z file. Thanks again for watching, be safe and take care!
So I have the music nomad s file. I have had the same experience with the center line being a bit too wide, and I noticed if I don't use it wet it scratches up the frets pretty bad. I been looking at the fret guru files. Do you prefer the diamond over the standard fret guru files?
Johnathan, thanks for watching! Yep, I hear ya. Using some lubricant with the S-file does help reduce the aggressive cut you mention. I really like all the innovation in that file, but I'm finding myself using other files more often at this time. As for the orginal FretGuru Dagger fret file. I haven't used it, so I can't give you hands-on feedback, sorry. I have used steel tooth files for a long time, and they can do a great job. They also require the user to really be tuned-in to driving the file. The three-corner and the old gurian 1/4 round files can do great work, or they and quickly destroy frets. I haven't used cut tooth files in some time, so I'm probably not a good source for the info you seek. Currently I'm primarily using the SM original Z, and FretGuru Diamond Dagger 2 files, with 3and1 oil as a lube. I am always looking to try new things, and hopeful that Music Nomad with have and update to there file in the future too. Good luck with your projects!
Personally I do. Others may prefer the centered however, to each their own. I like the fine control that is offered by the original Z. I can focus on rounding one side of the fret at a time, not have to watch both sides. Again, others may prefer the centered version. One thing I don't like is the "compact" SM file. My hand was cramping while using it. It might be okay for a couple frets, spot work, but definitely not a full fretboard. I sent the compact Z file back to StewMac, that was the best part of my experience with that file.
@theNextProject I been using a triangle file and the s file. I have used a few others. But I just bought the z original I'm gonna give it a try. I like the fact that you still have some control. Sometimes with the s file I rock it side to side to thin up the line a bit. But i don't like doing that. Also for the oil I end up using music nomad f one oil. Works well.
Sounds good, any lube, even the musicnomad f one oil should help keep the file from plugging up. I've rocked the S-File side-to-side to get a narrower crown too, but don't like that I can't easily see what I'm doing. It's good to have all the tools you do, you'll have a solution for any situation. Good luck with your projects!
Thanks for persevering. I do find the asking price of such kit off-putting, esp. for US-made or -supplied tools imported into the UK, so having this real world comparison is undoubtedly helpful. Ergonomics-wise, the MusicNomad offering suggests a better user handling experience, but for me, that’s gonna have to wait a while 😞
MuseumsBloke, thanks for watching! Agreed, the price of these is off-putting. That is part of the reason I did this test, and basically threw money away doing so. I'm hoping the outcome will help others either side-step, or put off getting certain files. The Music nomad has great hype, offering ultimate ease of use for all audiences. But, while a great tool, I found it sadly fall short of expectations. I could see a few potential upgrades to that file. A thin center crown rib, and finer 300 grit coating. Another idea would be to have one side of the file as-is, and the flip side the more refined "finish file". Meh, they didn't ask me. Any of these files require a lot of work to recoup the initial expense. Hope you are doing well, be safe and take care!
Do you consider it a good thing whether or not the crown line is super thin? You just mentioned it in the part I'm listening to. I would fret (haha) about ruining the leveling.
Andrew, thanks for watching! Crown width seems to be subjective, but I personally attempt to reduce the flat leveling area to a thin "hairline", at least as much as possible. I didn't waste much time during this test trying to get a hairline, as a couple of the files just won't go there. As for ruining the leveling, I guess that depends on how heavy handed the person is doing the crowning, dressing and polishing. If I happen to crown and finish the hairline away, it would likely be in the ten-thousandths of an inch amount. Interesting thing, while I was working and re-working this test board, I only removed 0.007" of material total during all the re-levels. So a lot of leveling didn't take much off the frets. So even less is removed bringing the flat level into a crowned shape, again depending on how heavy handed the person is. For me, the finer the crowned line, the less finish work and smoother polished frets I can make. Better bending, smoother feel... better playing guitar. That being said, I've seen, and worked on some frets that I call "plateau crowned". They are pretty much flat top leveled, maybe a little crowning to ease the edges, then fine sanded and polished.... still a flat top fret, just shiny. So, to each their own I guess. Hope this helps explain what I mentioned. Thanks for asking, take care!
Ron, thanks for watching! Please know that any of these files (and many others) will do the job just fine. Each person will have their personal favorite, and that's all good too. For me, this test was to find a better file, and way of doing this work than what I had been. I expected big things in some tools and wasn't really happy with the results at times. Good luck with your file quest!
After trying several different files, what seems to work for me now is the original fret guru file(non diamond) to cut through very quickly and shape the crown then the zfile for super thin center strip. I use an old toothbrush to constantly clean the diamond file from buildup. I got the fret guru file when it first came out, it was about $40. Id recommend that file for the money or the hosco regular crowning files…a little more work but they’re not expensive and high quality…i prefer the hosco dressing file over the stewmac anyday
K Matax, thanks for watching and sharing your tool/process too. I'm really like the original zfile for the hairline too, just not easily getting there with any of these other files. I was really surprised by how much I hate the SM mini centered Z-File, and how many people claim to love it, oh well. I actually have an old offset Z-file that I cut the handle off of. It's basically the offset mini-Z, not centered. I actually use and enjoy the old file that I cut down, but not the new official model. Thanks for the info on the FG and Hosco files, good stuff! Be safe and take care!
which file won you stopped at #2 ? I'm making a system where each fret is perfectly set, no leveling required! almost there, lil' tweaking... factory micro polished, ball ends .. easy, fugg all that filing, with stainless why? you shouldn't ever have to dress or level them every the life of the guitar if you use nickle strings, (softer) get some diamond paper, the good stuff, double sticky tape to your regular crown file, same for leveling, just use diamond paper stuck to a beam... fuggit
Dean, thanks for watching! #2 is kinda of a toss-up. I felt both the FretGuru Diamond Dagger 2, and the StewMac original Z-file were both there. They are different files on design and function. Really hard to call one better than the other. The reality is that any of the files tested will do the job well. Some make the job easier, or feel better when used - that's important to me. Ive been using the SM original Z-file for many years, it does a great job for sure. The only issue I see with it is ease of use on the upper frets over the body. There is no offset, so the process needs to slow a bit. Hope this helps. Take care!
I was looking at the Music Nomad S-file even though I like the Baroque file..I was actually going to order it tomorrow morning but not now..I too like a fairly narrow crown on top..easier to bend etc...might look at my Baroque file and see if I can cut the handle off and maybe weld the internal metal part of the handle at somewhat of an offset..haha ! I have the tools and welding machine to do it if its possible.
Ross, thanks for watching! The MusicNomad is a good file, but as you mentioned, leaves a rather wide crown. I keep using mine, and find it a "rough work" file. I still need to follow it with a second file to finish the job. I hope they will come out with a version 2 with a narrower safety zone. Sounds like you will have a custom tool built soon. Good luck with your projects. Be safe and take care@+!
The mini Z file is really for working the frets over an acoustic body or set neck, downside is you need two Z files, normal and mini, Thank you for doing this
Thanks for watching! Agreed, the compact Z is really for spot work, or up over the body of a set neck instrument. However, I added it to the list of tools as so many people are/were saying it is the best thing since sliced bread. I still like sliced bread, but not a fan of the compact Z file, for spot work or anything. My favorite part of that file was the SM customer service. No issue sending that little file back. Everyone will have their favortie, and something that fits them best. Nice to have options. Be safe and take care!
@@theNextProjectis it mainly the ergonomics for you? I bought that file but haven’t used it yet. It’s my only crowning file. My hands are not that big and just holding it feels fine.
Hexspa, thanks for watching! To a degree, yes the ergonomics is a big issue (for me) with the compact Z-file. It does work well, but I found it almost painful to use as it has sharp edges which cut into my finger and palm. Also, the size was causing me hand cramping while using it. I honestly didn't experience that with any other file used. I also have an oooold Original Z-file that I had cut the handle off, rounded/eased the edges, and I feel it is a better tool than the newer compact Z-File. The compact Z will do the work, so don't take my concerns too harshly. I am simply comparing it to the other files at hand. Each has great features and potentially some limitations. You made a good purchase, and it will serve you well. Be safe and take care!
Great video! The StewMac files work well for me, but always make my hands sore (both the compact one and the offset Z file). I want to try the Music Nomad fret file, but my Music Nomad nut files have already started losing their diamond coating, so I'm wary of buying their other diamond file products.
Philip, thanks for watching! I was having some serious hand cramps from using the SM mini file, and getting poked by the sharp edges too. Ended up wrapping part of it in masking tape just so I could test the file more. So my takeaway with the SM Mini was "why should I use a tool that makes a less than enjoyable task, painful?". The MusicNomad S-File is really well made, I like the innovation and such, but it seems be a rough-in type file. Take a set of heavily worn and plateau leveled frets and bring them back to near crown. Then grab the SM original Z to finish the job... Doesn't really seem like the ideal workflow to me. But maybe I'm just a bit weird. I did attempt to use it on a strat refret, but the new frets barely needed any leveling, even at the fall-away area. The MN S-file, has such I wide crown ( approx. 1mm ), there was nothing it could do to help, so I used other files to do the crowning. I have some MN nut files (new to me), so I'll keep and eye on them to see how quickly they wear - thanks for the heads up on that. Be safe and take care!
Anyone thinking of getting anything other than a triangle file, I would not waste my time on any fancy one. I used one, it came out great. I have never did it before or anything even close to this job, and it came out great. I have been playing on my guitar for 2 months now, everything is wearing evenly. The triangle give you a lot of control, not just blindly convering the fret. I got a full kit of 3 files to dress the ends from stewmac on sale, so happy i did it. I was regretting every second not buying one of these up until the point I finished the job. OK MAYBE if your job is doing this all day, I imagine this could save time, but I still think if this was my job, I would have a "fancy file" but still have a triangle to make the crown extra tight.
Baker, thanks for watching! Glad you are enjoying the SM files, they sell some really great tools. This video was focused on diamond files, and while steel cut-tooth files are great, I wanted to focus on just the diamond variety. I still have my triangle and a couple other steel files. Great tools to have. Good luck with your projects, be safe and take care!
Hey J.C. please expand on your comment of "Nope". Sorry but I don't want to assume anything. Do you mean a diamond triangle file wouldn't be nice, or something else. Thanks in advance.
Baker, a diamond triangle file, or even a steel tooth triangle file is basically 3 flat files. In a way, the StewMac Original Z-file is similar to a triangle file. You only use one side of it at a time anyway. There are flat jeweler diamond files, also similar files for glass work. Some of these flat diamond files can be used on frets too. There are various abrasive grits available as well. Sometimes it's fun to experiment. 👍
I did buy the centered z-file and found it just fine… got a nice thin crown , found it cut well, would def try the cutting oil next time. So although you rated it last, in my hands it gave good results.
Mike, thanks for watching and I'm glad to hear the SM file is working. Did you get the full-length center file, or the compact version? I found the compact version caused my hand to cramp after a couple frets, and that the rubber grip didn't really improve the issue - at least for me it didn't. Also, the edges were pretty sharp, so while it did cut well I felt it wasn't any better than the others I tested and was the least enjoyable to use. That's just my experience. Glad it's working for you. Be safe and take care!
It's for new frets with a lot of material. Th standard Z file is what you want for normal level & crowning. The fact that he didn't even understand this says TONS about this useless test. IMO, that takes the Z file out of the test. It's for an entirely different job.
Hey J.C., sorry you didn't understand the idea of this test. I see all crowning files as designed to do - crowning. So, I gathered a handful of options and tried them. Comparing one file immediately to the next was a very interesting experience. Shows the strengths, weaknesses and behaviors of each. User comfort/ergonomics wasn't something I considered until running this comparison, now it is. I feel I "understand" a lot more having done this test. My takeaway is that the SM centered does work, it isn't the best for me, by a long shot. Your conclusion may vary. Take care!
I agree the full-sized original Z-file is an excellent file. Not sure what you mean by it needing considerable experience though. I think it's basically foolproof, requiring the least user experience, compared to most crowning files. The only problem is the cost. But it's one of the few Stewmac products that I think is worth what you pay. Crowning is a pain with a bad file (and there are quite a few like that). The Z-file's two flat angled facets avoid the problems with curved-concave files designed for one fret width only. The Z-file is almost "one size fits all".
VW, thanks for watching! I feel the Original Z requires a better eye and attention span, than do many of the concave files. It goes where the user drives it, the concave files just ride the rails (frets), for better or worse. The Orig-Z won't give you a crown, unless you drive it to a crown. But like you say, it is one-size fits all file. The Orig-Z is my go-to, and it will do anything I direct it to - at a price as you say. Yep. I was really disappointed by the SM centered V file. Personally, I like the Original far better, but many will debate that. To each there own. I kinda see the concave files as having a generic built-in auto-pilot (the Tesla of fret files), the user isn't required to do as much driving, and the file won't do anything special unless directed to do so. They don't require as much personal touch, or finesse for "basic" crowning. But we want something better than basic, so we reach for the Orig-Z. Just had a mental image/comparison of the the MusicNomad S-File to bumper bowling. An oddly accurate comparison, lol. It just rides the rail, then skates and does nothing. No gutter ball, no strike either, just along for the ride. Thanks for the comment, I like hearing from others and how they get along with this kind of stuff. Be safe and take care!
I've used Baroque unfortunately the coating is not even. Music nomad looks interesting however as you said second file is needed to finish the job. Thanks for the video
Johny, thanks for watching! Sorry to hear of your poor experience with the Baroque file. I think there is a "break-in" period for that file, and maybe some of the others too. I was really excited to try the Music Nomad file, and while it is a great and innovative design, it didn't really fit my needs. I've dropped a few hints to MN, suggesting a version 2, but we shouldn't hold our breathe on that. As you mentioned, it does need a second file to finish the job, which is sad to say. Right now I'm splitting project work between the FretGuru Diamond Dagger 2, and the old StewMac original Z-File (offset "v" design). Both of these files seem to get me where I need to go. Good luck with your projects!
I'm a fan of the original Z-file; it's quick and does a relatively good and quite acceptable job. However, nothing, in my opinion, gives better results than an old-school triangular file. The learning curve isn't all that steep, and although it takes longer than the Z-file and it's competitors, the results in reasonably skilled hands cannot be beat.
tmx, thanks for the added comment! Yep, there are a lot of good fret file options, new and old. I still have a 3-sided file, a gurian file and some other oddities laying about. I felt the steel cut-tooth file comparison had already been done, that's why I focused on the diamond files. This was originally a test just to answer my own curiosity, but seemed worth sharing as many of these get a lot of promotion from product "fans". I had really expected the new Music Nomad file to be my walkaway favorite...nope. I've swapped some messages with MN, who are very receptive to comment and discussion, good people. Can't say there will be any new file on the market soon, development takes time... I still find myself reaching for the SM original Z, as it can do just about everything I need. I actually have a cutoff version of it too, with rounded/eased edges. It works way better than the SM compact Z that I tested. Sorry for the rambling. Be safe and take care!
J.C., thanks for watching! That is true. Files, both diamond or steel tooth can be physically manipulated to adjust the function of the file. I don't understand what you mean by "the wrong Z-file". Which one? I tested 2 Z-files. I've found that only Original Z should be leaned to the side, that's largely it's design. The centered Z is more a straight up style tool, from what I found. I thought leaning it would help greatly, but not so much. I found the Center Z is best chased with another file to fix the fret-side faceting the file wants to leave behind, as well as improving the final crown width. Again, just my findings from trying a bunch of stuff with these files. Thanks for the note. Be safe and take care!
Mr. Monster, thanks for watching! That a great idea, and I already have some of those "affordable" files. The really cheap stuff from Amazon/eBay, typically make the work harder. I've had bad luck with the really low end files. In the $40-$60 range, there is a much better tier of files available. Hosco and FretGuru both have some good files in that range. I'll check my wallet and give the low cost shootout some thought. Thanks for the interest/idea . Take care!
Hey buddy, hope all is well. Sorry about my last few comments. I had a temporary loss of sanity. I have the Z file which i like but its not that easy to use. They all seem expensive to me. The z file definitely has some sharp edges but it'll work with the neck on. Just keep it clean. My first file was 5 dollars and i still uae it to take off that center line, 😆 i still have a few builds I'm working on. The latest is a fender stratocaster 50's Stratocaster with a quite wonderful Standard Squier Stratocaster neck. They both fit like a glove. The body's in great shape and is mint green. The neck is a lefty that i converted to a right handed. I wish i could afford the fender neck but this one is a step up from the normal Squier necks in that it has the same specs as a fender. I wish i could make the one ghat originally came with this body. The verterra has it in roasted maple and 7.25 radius like the original did.
ranman! good to hear from you, and no worries. I could tell you were dealing with some tough times. Hope things are going better for you now. Agreed, the Z file probably has the largest need for user input and control, but it can also deliver great results. My impatience often gets in the way of proper handling. I find myself needing to step-back, regroup, slow myself down and work the file, not just rush the process. Haste makes waste, and I'm pretty good at haste! I'm finding that using oil (3 and 1 oil most recently), really resolves the need to clean the diamond files. The oil keeps everything suspend, no more plugged up diamond grit. I wish I would have stumble apon using oil a few years ago. Sounds like a great project you have going. I'll check your channel, you may have that guitar in one of your vids. Good to hear from you again, take care my friend!
@@theNextProject, thank you, good to hear from you too. I'm ok but it's still very hard here. Good word man. Lots of peoples lives are crashing. I love guitar's but I cannot focus on it for long or I get accused of not doing what I could be doing instead. So, I have projects now, that don't get done. Focusing on the garden now. Food for the future, if there is one.
I bought the StewMac z file and had to send it back. Missing an area of grit and tool marks on the edges of the smmoth filing face that could chew the fretboard. Very disappointing. They easily refunded my money. I used a triangle file to complete the job.
Picker, thanks for watching. The compact Z file I tested was pretty rough on the smooth surfaces too. I still use my original offset z-file. Old-school triangle files are good to have on hand. Good luck with your projects. Be safe and take care!
Dugbert, thanks for watching! True, triangle files do work, and have been used by a lot of us. This is a test of diamond files, which I switched to a long time ago, being the SM original Z. It was a great expense and full of frustration due to the surface continually plugging up. Since adding a cutting fluid to my process, the need to clean the file has been resolved. Even when I used 1/4 round and triangle files, I had to clean the teeth of those files, so possibly using cutting fluid may help that style file as well, but I haven't tried fluid with those. Hope all is well, take care!
Tommy, thanks for watching! Yep, the SM safety edge Z is nearly identical to the SM original Z, only without the diamond grit on one surface. They do make/sell really get files. Hope all is well for you, be safe and take care!
Troy, thanks for watching! Yes, you could say the center Z is intended to be "fool proof". The design is rather basic in an attempt to make it that way. There are 2 "V" sides to the centered file. A wide flat-ish V on one side, and on the other side a medium width V. In this test, I only had the compact center file version, not the long handle version. I found the compact file to be very uncomfortable to use, and that largely directed my opinion of the file. The edges are rather sharp, the size is hard to hang onto, the rubber band cover did little to improve these issues. I ended up wrapping it with masking tape to protect my finger and palm while using it. Also, the finish was rather rough and scarred on either side of the diamond coating. Low quality control it appeared. The file did cut well, but it wants to facet the fret, using one side initially, then flipping the file to use the other side. So, you need to use it in a similar fashion to the SM Original Z-file, by tilting it slightly side-to-side to get a smoother round shape to the sides of the fretwire, and to narrow the final crown width. So, yes, it is fool proof in concept and basic function, but I felt most of the other files I tested worked equally as well, and most were more comfortable. The Compact File is likely ideal for the few frets where the body and neck meet, or on spot work. I would not want to use it on a full fingerboard. On the bright side, StewMac has great customer service, and I returned the file no questions asked for a full refund. There are many people who use and love the SM Compact Centered Z file, I'm not debating that. It's just not close to being a favorite of mine. I actually have an Origial Z-file that I had cut the handle off and rounded the ends. It has no rubber band cover and is waaaay more comfortable to use than was the compact center Z-file. So, I was rather disappointed to try a "real" SM compact file, it paled in comparison to my modified version. Interesting - to me. I find the original to offer better user control, but that could just be me. I've used the Original for a number of years, and know the process and how to handle it. The Compact Centered, felt like it was trying to do too much, but didn't really do a better job. Again, just my point of view. Thanks again for watching and the question too. Hope all is well, be safe and take care!
The experience I had with the earlier gen Baroque files would place it solidly out of contention, regardless of whatever improvements they may have made in the years since. Any company who at one time released a file to the market that destroyed fret tops on the very first stroke is not to be trusted ever again.
tmx, thanks for watching! I've heard mention of such damaging issues with the early Baroque files. I'm guessing they heard the complaints too. If i recall, there was a "break-in process" letter included with the Gen4 file. I had considered breaking the file in before doing my test, but let's face reality...who follows the instructions. LOL. Hope all is going well for you, be safe and take care!
Hey OutrageDuck, thanks for watching! Yep, 3 corner file, gurian file, various shaped steel tooth files, then diamond files. Some may be better than others, but all good tools. The carpenters hand saw was updated to the circular saw, then miter saws.... Steps in evolution, all good tools, all will do the job. Constantly looking to do better work, with less work. All good! Be safe and take care!
Ron, thanks for watching! Since I started using cutting fluid, or 3 and 1 oil with the diamond files, I haven't had to clean the files. I just wipe the file with a paper towel and reapply a drop of oil before starting the next fret. Before using oil with the file, I had to stop every few frets, use denatured alcohol or similar to soak the file surface, a old tooth brush, or more typically a fine brass "tooth" brush. Looks like a regular tootbrush, but has fine brass wires for scrubbing. The constant plugging up of my fret file got so bad, I bought a second file just so I could get further down a fingerboard before having to clean the files. Then I'd stop and clean 2 files at one time, then get back to work... Life kinda sucked, all better now. I hope this helps, good luck with your projets!
Good video, I have a "NOT SO PRO TIP" for you, from another industry, lose the oil/cutting fluid, and apply chalk to your file every couple frets, the chalk stops the file from loading, Caution, I've not used it on a diamond file, only regular files, but the concept is the same
sthom, thanks for watching! Good tip, and I have used chalk on both regular steel tooth file and tried it on the diamond files. To my surprise, oil actually worked better on regular steel file for a recent project/experiment. Results may vary depending on the type of metal being filed and scale of project however. My recent "experiment" had my steel file continually plugging up heavily with and without chalk, then I tried 3and1 oil on it, and barely had any issue, other than an oily file. That test was removing a shoulder from a cast metal insert that was chucked in my drill press. It was spinning, I was filing...and cussing a bit initially. The cast metal really stuck to the steel file. My file brush did little to remove the material from the file, had to pick most of it out. Then I figured "why not try oil", and almost no issue with plugging, and the file brush removed everything easily at that point. I was a bit shocked. But, it's oil, it can be a bit messy. Good times. Thanks again for watching and mentioning chalk too. Be safe and take care!
Another tip ... Ditch the files that are "for" that size fret... Always go with a larger file , hold one side and file .... turn it around , or apply pressure to the other side and get that line as thin as you want... As far as oil? I don't know ... maybe lemon oil might work ... I use it anyway to help keep the water moisture out yet keep the fretboard from shrinking also detures the fretboard from soaking up somethingy ou don'twant it to like coke , beer , roll whatever else that someone spills on your guitar . so I wouldn't worry if a little got on a fretboard.. of an expensive guitar fretboard if filing.. I know some luthiers will use any oil... and even boiled linseed oil.. I'm not one of those.
Freese, thanks for watching and the note! Maybe I should have explained that I'm using a drop of cutting fluid/oil. The fingerboard isn't really getting anything on it to speak of. l typically tape the board too, which I didn't in this test just to see how much damage the files would do...or I would do, LOL. Anyway, cutting fluid isn't required, just an idea for those who want to try it. I'm currently using 3and1 oil and haven't noticed any harm or discoloration to fingerboards, either maple, rosewood or ebony. They all clean up looking good. Again, a drop and not getting it all over the place. I really like how the diamond files no longer plug up with fret debris. I probably keep using a cutting fluid until I find something better. Thanks again, be safe and take care!
FirstWorker, thanks for watching! I haven't tried the Fret Maestro, as it is a bit more expensive than any of the files that I've tried so far, and radius specific. It looks like there is a new maestro "omni pro" version for conical radius boards. It appears the main depth-stop handle part has a flat bottom to follow the fingerboard radius shape, allowing for any radius... Since I work on a number of different fret radius', I'd have to invest in numerous radius-specific maestro file inserts, or possibly the new omni-pro version. The maestro is ± $190 per radius set, or a pre-determined 4 radi set for $600, or Pro package for $2000 which appears to have all radi and the Omni Pro too. Interesting tools, just can't justify them at the moment. Hope all is well, be safe and take care!
jrjr, thanks for watching! I'm not familiar with Hoco brand, but I do have a Hosco HF ? semi-circle cut steel tooth mini file. It's pretty good, but can leave some chatter marks if not careful. Not sure if this is the type of file you are mentioning. In this video, I really just wanted to compare and contrast a few of the current diamond files. Mostly to satisfy my own curiosity. There are many, many great files available, both steel tooth and diamond. Be safe and take care!
@@theNextProject yes but they make two sizes i find if you put a four or five inch long small broom handle depending on how wide your hands are thru the circle and snug it it works better then finger less marks what do you think ?
The MusicNomad S-file is very straight forward. Their "how-to" video also tell the story. However, I found that if I use the file "as recommeneded" by Music Nomad, it didn't really do the job I want it to. However, it does do the job it is designed to do, and that is where I feel the MN S-file falls short. The center safety rib is a deliberate design feature, that results in a center crown that is roughly +/- 1/32" or +/- 1mm wide. That and the rather coarse diamond grit require me to use another tool to get a vary narrow crown with fewer diamond grit scratches in the fretwire. I really like the design in general, just not how it works in reality. I've since attempted to use it on a number of projects, and the end result is always the same. The MN S-file is a rough work file - for me, not a finish file such as the StewMac Original Z, or the FretGuru Diamond Dagger 2.
I’ve recently had to buy some electrical tools and the prices are reasonable, nothing outrageous…then I look at luthier tools and it is absolutely ridiculous…over 100 bucks for 1 file…and that’s just one example…I can’t think of any trade where the price of tools is so expensive…maybe there is but I don’t know of any!!!
Thanks for watching! Completely get what you're saying. Maybe the electrical tool market has a larger audience, and the tools are mass produced. Luthier repair tools cater to a rather small following, so it's kinda like everything is "custom". A fret slotting circular sawblade is $100, but we can buy a sawblade at Lowes for $15 and up. Of course the Lowes blade is made by the tens-of-thousands, and marketed at the home DIY person. I looked into this kinda thing a few vids back. ruclips.net/video/qE_a7SPZtb4/видео.html Be safe and take care!
Bilal, thanks for watching! SM might borrow the idea and release a file with a smaller safe zone, that would be interesting. Not sure why the Music Nomad S-file is getting so much praise. I guess everyone else either accepts a wide crown, or is doing something else with the file. I like the idea, just not the results. Take care!
Larra, thanks for watching! Sorry I left everyone hanging with my indecision. Honestly, all these files are capable of doing the job, and each person will have their own favorite. I've used the StewMac Original Z-file for a handful of years, so I know how to get a specific crown with that file. Putting it in the top "2" is perhaps a bit biased, but it is a really good file. The FretGuru Diamond Dagger 2 file, also in the top "2", is a new file to me and I honestly didn't expect it to do as well as it did/does. The diamond coating is a bit different on this file, but seems to work very well. It's now done work on a half dozen necks. MusicNomad S-File has a ton of innovation and design benefits. I really expected it to be my favorite, it just looks the part and everyone is saying it's the best thing since sliced bread. Then I used it, and while I still appreciate all the design, I find it stops short of doing the job. I've been in contact with MN, we've discussed some issues I have with the file. In hind-sight, I'm not sure I should have even given it a #3 spot. The offset file from Bitterroot (StewMac sells a very similar file). This file had very sharp edges when I pulled it from the package. I wouldn't have been able to use it without injuring myself, so I took a flat file to all the edges and fixed it. Honestly, it does a great job! The rounded/offset ends solve the issue of getting up over the body on an acoustic or set neck instrument. One thing I would like to see changed is to have one side of the file noticeably narrower than the other. They appear to be identical concave surfaces. The Baroque Gen4, another surprise and a really good file for the money, it's just too big for half of the work that I do. StewMac Compact Z-file. I had a hard time using this file. It is compact enough to use over the body of an acoustic and such, which is good. However, it's shape/design caused my hand to continually cramp, and sharp edges cut into my fingers and palm while in use. The results were also average, it can create a reasonably narrow crown, but other files are far more comfortable to do the same job. Also, this file has 2 different V shaped sided, and narrow V and a wide/flat V. The idea is to start the crowning with one side and finish with the other, to get a final "hairline" crown. The idea does work somewhat, but I found it took more work to get there and the file left a faceted fret. I could easily see flatened filed angle facets along the sides of the frets. I still use my old SM Original Z-File on nearly every job, also the FretGuru DD 2. I keep trying to find a use for the MN S-file, but it just leaves too wide of a crown. Sorry, I don't have a clear winner from this failed test. I hope all is well for you, be safe and take care!
Thanks i watched a couple times i really enjoyed it and think they were all great too for different things. I've tried the baroque gen 3 and 4 and the fret guru one without the diamond cutting. I work as a guitar tech at guitar center thanks for the video!
Thanks for the multiple re-watches! I'd love to hear your thoughts on different tools, being a front-line responder to guitar issues, you probably have some valuable insight. Slightly off-topic, I've been interested in the StewMac Fret Kisser for some time, but the cost has been a negative factor. I noticed the SM price recently dropped by ±$30 for the Fret kisser, and about the same time MusicNomad introduced an understring "U" shape tool(s) that do the same basic thing. I picked up the MusicNomad version (impulse purchase). I"ll be trying it out this weekend, and probably do a short vid on it. Let me know you thoughts on various tools at your bench. Thanks!
The centered Z file is for new frets. The standard Z file is what you should have used against the others. They're 2 totally different files for 2 totally different purposes. The offset file is used with older frets that have been leveled and need to be crowned. Smh. This test is pretty useless. The fact that you didn't even take the time to read up on the different Z files tells me you went into this with opinions already formed.
J.C., thanks again for the note and the critical critique. Sorry you found the file comparison useless, that's fine as I mentioned everyone will have a different takeaway. I was looking to compare a handful of diamond files of which I was interested in. I was looking for an upgrade, and ran a test. Sorry, I don't understand the first part of your comment "centered Z file is for new frets. The standard Z file (original Z I assume) is what you should have used against the others." I did use the SM Original Z-file and all the others, including the SM Compact Centered Z-File. You then mentioned that the offset file is used for older frets. Again, I'm not sure if you mean the standard/original Z-file, or actually mean the "Offset" file which I did use in this comparison. Sorry, you kinda lost me there. If you mean the actual "offset" file compared to a centered Z-File, yes, they are different, actually many of the files are somewhat different, but I don't see any of them being intended for new frets or old worn frets. However, during this test I did find the MusicNomad S-File to be more of a rough-work, old-worn fret crowning file than the others tested. But that's a different point, I believe. I do understand the difference in the Origianl Z-file, the Safety Z-file and the Centered Z-file in design and use. I didn't spend time offering a how-to on any of these files, nor a how-to-manipulate, or issue work-around lesson for any file. That wasn't the scope of this out-of-the-box test. Sorry you felt I didn't take time to read, which is not the case. I expect everyone who decides to purchase any tool to do just that, READ, don't ask me as I don't work for the company. Everyone should get the "how-to" info from the source, not me, as this was not a training video. In general, there isn't great user info for most of these files, The baroque did supply a full page of info, how-to, break-in... The Z files is largely only what StewMac videos show, or other end-users post - which is lacking typically. Sorry you think my opinions were pre-determined, honestly that is farthest from the actual outcome, maybe you missed that part of the video. Backstory time. I've been using the SM original Z-file for many, many years. I actually have 3 of them. This is largely due to a common problem, that isn't documented very well, and that is diamond file grit plugging up - continually - during use. I was spending more time cleaning the file than using it. So, I ended up with 3 files so I could get a more work done between gang-cleaning. A few years back, I cut the handle off one of the original Z-files, making my own "compact" Z. I rounded and eased the edges, it is VERY comfortable, and can be used for a full fingerboard if needed. I don't even have the rubber band grip on it, and it's a better tool than the newer SM centered Z-file. Jumping ahead. Earlier this year, I had been hearing more and more about the Music Nomad S-file. Best thing since slice bread - so I heard. The MN product videos show a straight forward use, great results... Phil McKnight did a video gave it high praises... the internet exploded with everyone saying it was the only file you would ever need. I was intrigued and excited by this, as I've have a love-hate relationship with the SM files. Other files also caught my attention. I decided to open my wallet and hope to find a magic tool that was better, much better. Then I did my comparison. I attempted to use each file ONLY as it was designed to be used, not cheat the file, which it is necessary to do so for some of these files. But that wasn't what I was testing to find. I wanted to see which tool did the job it was designed to do. To learn if the ergonomics, and materials were put together in a user-friendly way to help me get the job done better and easier. I did mention that any of these files will do the job and that everyone may have a different favorite. I also mentioned that I was surprised by how good the Baroque file was for the money, how poorly produced the offset file was, how uncomfortable the SM compact file was to use, my reservation with the FretGuru DD 2, and that the SM original Z lacking offset... I did try to offer honest reaction to every tool. I may have a bias for the Original Z, as I've used it for so long, and recently started using a light oil with it. It is a far better file with oil, in my opinion, and it seems all the files I tested did a better job when cutting fluid/oil was introduced. I also wonder if a cutting fluid will help prolong the diamond grit of these files, but time will tell. Some people will scold me for using a cutting fluid, others may give it a try. It is up to the user, not me, it is just an idea, a suggestion to consider. I've used a drop of oil per fret on a dozen fingerboards now. I honestly enjoy doing fretwork now, it's actually easier, even with the SM original Z files. Your results may vary however. Of the files I tested, the biggest surprise was how limited/limiting the great design of the MN S-file is. The safety rib is designed to be used upright, not cheated side-to-side, as that negates the reason for having the safety rib largely. So, I used it as designed, and I was disappointed with the results.The file leaves a 1/32" wide crown, which is typically where most of my crowning work begins. So, this file does little, if anything for me. It also has the coarse diamond coating, which I found unnecessary. At the end of the day, I see the MN S-File as a rough work file for heavily worn/leveled fret re-crown as a starting file. Yes, I've cheated the file, using it side-to-side, and i honestly get better, faster results using other files. That was the intent of the comparison anyway, to compare and contrast. I've used all of these files since posting the video, accept for the SM center file, which I sent back to SM. While it does cut well, and it can be cheated side-to-side in use to get a finer crown, and yes, you should use both sides of the file to do the job. I found it to be a spot repair file, or limited in practical use to the high frets where the neck and body overlap. Not ideal for a full fingerboard - at least not for me, i'll grab another tool that is more comfortable and does a better job. I also expect the long handled version of this file to actually be better, easier to use, but hindered somewhat over the neck/body area as is the original Z-file. I've since swapped messages with Bernie of FretGuru, and Jonathan of Music Nomad. Both are great fellows and are both interested in creating better tools for people like us. SM has a great customer support department and returning the Centered Z was painless. Anyway, sorry you didn't get anything from the video. Thanks for watching anyway. Be safe and take care!
Bwahahaha! now that's funny! I had forgotten what the intro for this video was, ah yes. So, the disclaimer, why not make fun of it and the test too. Hope you enjoyed what followed the intro. No law degree nor public service work in my past...maybe I should look into that. Thanks! for the idea! Hope all is well, be safe and take care!
This is a great video. Thank you for all the work. Really helpful to see how tools work in the real world!
Mega, thanks for watching!
Glad you felt the comparison was worthwhile. I found it to be a bit of a surprise and also a very tight race for these files.
They will all do the job, some a little better here or there.
Be safe, take care!
This is a really great video. I don't envy you with all that filing. Thank you again for keeping up with the fantastic work.
Hans, thanks for watching and much appreciated.
I hope you are doing well, take care!
Hi John,
Great video with a lot of filing, which is almost as good as sanding. Thank you for testing for us. I will remember this if my current non-diamond fret file wears out.
Stay safe, my friend,
Jens
Jens, good to hear from you and thanks for watchin!
Your cut tooth files will last forever, no need to throw money out the window on these items.
Take care my friend!
"Almost as good as sanding"! So true! 🤣
LOL, you guys.
This was great. Appreciate the Work that went into-it. Very honest & informative. Great information presented here.
Michael, thanks for watching!
Honestly there could be six different outcomes. Each user will likely want, feel, see things differently.
My takeaway from all this, was a bit of surprise. The Baroque was far better than I expected, especially for the price. It is a rather large file compared to the others, and doesn't really fit certain use situations easily. The StewMac Compact centered Z file was also very much a surprise. I've since sent it back to SM. It was just too uncomfortable for me to use. Honestly, I didn't see that coming.
I've continued to attempt to use the Music Nomad S-File, which is a really cool and well designed file, but it really doesn't deliver a final finish. To me, it is a rough-work file, that needs to be followed by another file. I have ideas for their version 2 file, but I doubt that they are listening. Too much love and hype for the file as it is currently.
Good luck with your projects!
@@theNextProject Nooooo. Talk to Rand - he is the Owner of Music Nomad, and a Great guy to do business with. I have about 12 of their products. Good Luck brother. oNe LovE from NYC
@@theNextProject I have used the Baroque on 2 guitars with extra jumbo frets and they came out really good...the straight handle is kinda hard to work with but once I did the crowning and polishing on the frets I forgot all about that..I have to do at least 1 of my guitars frets on several of the the frets and was just looking around..where I live out in the boonies the nearest guitar luthier that could do this job is at least 100 + miles away from me so I had to learn how to do this out of necessity...this is a great video here for sure.
Interesting test and interesting test results. Definitely useful video. Thanks.
GQ, thanks for watching!
I love your channel and videos = great stuff!
Thanks for all the work you share.
This "test" was rather interesting (to me), not at all what I expected in the end, and really, really hard to put in a ranked order.
All of the files can, and do, a good job. Not all of them "feel" good however, even if they do work well.
Then, there are shortcomings of one variety or another. No perfect file, but a good sample of a number of "good" files.
I keep trying to use the lower ranked files from this test, hoping to reveal something I missed. Continually find myself using one of two files for final work... They are consistent in results and easy to use, at least for me.
Thanks again!
I loved every aspect of this! I have used the MusicNomad and was rooting for it but lost myself in the video presentation, the wry humor, and your knowledge base. I will still use it, albeit more knowledgeably - now with cutting oil (thanks to the embedded subliminal tutorial) ! Liked and subscribed.
Michael (Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo Violet) thanks for watching!
Glad you enjoyed the video.
It's hard not to love the MusicNomad file. It's a great piece of engineering design. I just used it again last weekend, hoping something new would "pop up", but it does what it is designed to do. It does that really well too, but it's leaving a bit too wide of crown for me.
I've been trying to "cheat" the file, leaning it side-to-side, much like I do with the StewMac Z file. The results aren't the same, at least for me.
I can easily see what I'm doing with the SM-Z, but the MusicNomad-S seems to block my POV, and I feel a bit blind when using it in such a manner. Running it upright feels natural, as it was designed to do.
It is a great tool for starting the repair of heavily worn frets, and finishing with a second file for the thin crown. At least that's how I'm approaching it.
As for oil, just a drop on the diamond grit of the file. Do your filing on the fret, wipe the fret and the file with a paper towel. Add a new drop of oil, hit the next fret.... later, rinse and repeat.
You probably won't have to actually "clean" your file. At least not a deep cleaning to remove embedded fret debris.
Thanks for your sub, welcome to the family of doing things for no good reason.
Be safe and take care!
I'm actually a bit baffled by this video. I have used the Music Nomad file and I get a needle tip crown every time I use it, it's much thinner than the results in this video. Maybe there are some QC issues and he got a lemon.
Returnality, thanks for watching!
Your "needle tip" crown width using the MN S-File is baffling to me.
I have to really cheat the file, leaning it greatly side-to-side to get a narrow-ish crown width.
This is a process I use with the StewMac original Z-file, but that's how the SM-Z is designed to be used.
I find the side-to-side process with the MN-S file a bit awkward in comparison. Kinda like driving with my eyes shut.
The S-file, as designed has a ±1/32" wide safety rib to skate on the leveled crown area. I like the design idea of this. But it also wants to leave a ±1/32" wide crown unless the file is leaned side-to-side, which I feel defeats the design intent. I also find the leaning of the file yields a less than true crown.
Since I'm getting a finish crown close to 1mm wide, I have to either cheat the file, or just grab another file... which I typically do.
Please let me know the process you are using with the S-file to get such fine final crown lines.
Would be interesting to hear your process and take on the tool.
Thanks again for watching, be safe and take care!
@@theNextProject I took a closer look at my S-file and compared it to yours. Mine has a MUCH thinner center line to my eyes. This seems to be a QC issue.
I personally dislike the S-file anyways because it leaves incredibly harsh tool marks that are just an absolute pain to get rid of. Right now my go to is the normal fret dagger 2.0. It's fast, effective, and doesn't leave abysmal scratches all over the frets.
Could be. My S-File has a fat 1/32" (± 1mm) wide safety rib.
Works pretty good until it hits the rib, then it's built-in features kinda come to a halt. If I rock the file side-to-side for a finer crown, I'm cheating the file design, and might as well use a different file.
Maybe I did get a dud, idk.
I really like the idea, but not the function and as you mention the coarse cut too.
I find it to be a rough-work file, which I don't need too often.
I mostly use the StewMac Z files, the offset works best in my opinion. I have used the Dagger 2.0 and have liked the results. Great video! Thanks for sharing it!
Shadowghst, thanks for watching!
Good luck with your project, be safe and take care!
I have a few crowning files as I am just getting into this now . . . I was really looking at the SM Z-files and think this may be my next file . . . just gotta save up a few $$ . . .😎 . . . 👍👍
Tom, thanks for watching, sorry I missed your comment until now.
Sadly all tools are expensive, I hope this vid helps with potential future purchase.
Be safe and take care!
Really amazing video.
Also interesting, ironic and somehow appropriate.
This week I’ve been working closely with the factory where the Diamond Dagger file is made, and exploring every possible way to squeeze any more improvement from the file’s performance, function, comfort and durability…. which is actually a never ending process.
So as I’m sitting in the hotel restaurant having dinner after a long day, mindlessly scrolling through RUclips… into my feed pops this video!
Have to admit I was a bit apprehensive to click the play button... 😬
But I have to give major props on the thorough and rigorous testing methods, and the punishing fret file torture laboratory you’ve created! It was quite riveting and suspenseful to watch (for a guitar nerd)… regardless of the results.
Did I expect to (co)win? Not really…
Being the the little guy going up against the private equity owned and funded behemoth that Stew-Mac has become, as well as many other larger, well funded companies who often make some quality tools (which I also use), I expected to be at least competitive.
Guess it just goes to show that an innovative idea, when well thought out and carefully executed, can compete, or often beat a huge brand.
So I think we can call this a win 😉 While continually striving to do better.
If anyone has questions about the Diamond Dagger, or any other FretGuru tools, reply here in the comments, or reach out to me at the obvious FretGuru website. Ask for Bernie.
Bernie, thanks for watching, and the really great comment too!
To be honest, this test was really tough to call. All of these files are right there, all at the heels of the next one. That made it tough, my ranking shifted continually, but when the dust settled...
Each file I tested has its strengths, whether it was price, fit and finish, function, or just a little bit of everything.
I was impressed by the Baroque file, actually better than I expected for the money and the downside (for me) was the overall size which limits its ease of use in all areas. Detached necks would be fine, but acoustics, set necks situations require some gymnastics with this file.
Maybe the biggest surprise was my complete distaste for the StewMac Compact Z-file, which has such a (cult) following, I felt I was missing something. However, I could barley use it for more than a few frets without it cutting into my hand...nope, it has gone back to StewMac ( SM does have a great customer service ).
The affordable offset (knock off) file from Bitterroot guitars, is actually a pretty good file. Once I got beyond the extremely sharp edges as delivered (I softened the edges), it actually worked pretty well. It was more versatile than the Baroque, due to the rounded (spot crowning) ends.
The MusicNomad was my expected winner before I started the test. It really is a nicely designed tool. I know it went through testing and research, but once I used it I questioned what I was doing wrong. I was really disappointed, and figured that I must suck at this stuff, but I kept at it.... It delivered what it was designed to do, and that is to coarsely file a reasonably wide crown.
A lot of my work begins about where the MN S-file stops. I've continued to try it, and if I "cheat" the built-in design safety-limitation, I can get the crown a bit thinner but still need to reach for a finish-file.
Perhaps no one else goes for thin crown lines. Maybe it is just me!
That left me with the SM Original Z, which I've used for a number of year, and your DD 2 file which is new to me.
I am very use to the way the offset "V" of the SM Z-file works, so I can easily get a pretty good crown. Your DD 2 file was easy to understand and navigate with no on-ramp time wasted.
I see the SM original Z requiring more user training and attention, and its next tier pricing, kept it from cleanly taking the top spot. It is a great file - for me.
Your file has done well, surprised and impressed me a bit as too. I will continue to use and torture it on upcoming projects, comparing it with the other files over time as well.
Slightly off topic, but I don't hear much about "lubrication" when using diamond fret files.
I recently started using oil on the files (3 and 1 oil currently). I believe it may slow the cutting rate down a little, but the payoff is not needing to clean the file, and potentially longer file life. Time will tell.
Side note, I do have you fret end file, been using that side-by-side with the SM end file . Honestly, your end file is my go-to. The SM end file is a bit anemic, but its small size is occasionally handy.
Keep up the great work and products, we all appreciate it!
Thanks again for watching and your comment, as I greatly appreciate your time.
Be safe and take care,
John D.
@@theNextProject Hey John,
I appreciate your thoughtful, in depth comments, and have discovered and been enjoying your other videos as well!
“…at the heels of the next one.” That’s a great description and visual, which could likely describe most every tool at your workbench and mine.
As you’ve found, it’s rarely a day-and-night difference of any one tool (though there are some truly game-changing tools), but in finding that 1%-5% improvement in each tool and process, which creates the efficiency and puts the “flow” in your shop’s workflow.
While also raising the level of the final result.
I didn’t know until more recently there was a name for this 1%-5% principal, or philosophy (of sorts), though I’ve always subscribed to it.
The principal is called “Aggregation of marginal gains”, which says, instead of looking for the large and dramatic improvements in any one place, consider the compounding effect of small 1% (or more) improvements, spread over the entire process, which - when added up can create dramatic results.
So yes, super interesting - if unpredictable - results of your shootout.
MN usually has good/great and innovative products, they typically set the bar fairly high, so their crowning file seemed like it would be a contender for the top spot. So that was a surprise.
I’ve also tried the compact Z File, and also found it puzzling, fatiguing to use, and generally a half baked / poorly executed design.
As well as the others in your test, which are also part of my extensive file collection, landing somewhere on the usable/useful/pretty darn good continuum.
You’ve got me very intrigued about running a diamond file “wet”! Up to this point I’ve only tried Dyna Glide on a file with teeth. Will be trying this soon.
You’re not alone… I’m also very obsessive about razor thin and precise crown lines.
It was this obsession - as well as the disappointment with the tools that were currently available - that started me down the path of developing a file that could create these centerlines in a consistent, controllable and intuitive way, which resulted in the Dagger 2.0 (the one with steel teeth) and the Diamond Dagger you have.
Glad to hear the FretGuru fret end file is serving you well.
This was actually the first FretGuru “product”, which wasn’t really intended to be a product at all.
It started as merely a solution to my being underwhelmed and disappointed with the SM fret end file - for similar reasons you are.
It was mainly that the SM file is too narrow in width, which gives it an unstable platform to work from, and makes it too easy to lean / topple over, which would make the corner of the file dig a groove next to the fret.
So after making a new design by extensively modifying a Swiss jeweler’s file, and being stoked with the results - and not thinking anything beyond my personal problem being solved…
I then I had a good friend/exceptional luthier visiting the shop, and I said, “Hey, I just made this fret end file… give it a try and let me know how it works for you”.
He was blown away by the function, and how stable it was, allowing him to slide right into the lowest corner of the fret, without any fingerboard damage.
He immediately asked if I could make 6 of them for him and his guys, to which I reluctantly replied, “maybe”.
Which then began to snowball as the word got out, which started many years of me personally making these fret end files by modifying Swiss jeweler’s files, to the point where my hands and wrists were ruined. Can you say “the opposite of profitable?”
The secret sauce on these files (aside from the special tooth cut) is just how surgically/insanely flat and smooth the bottom of the file is. I’m not afraid of anyone copying this, because nobody would be stupid enough to go through what we do to make them so flat. These are still the opposite of profitable.
You’ve probably noticed that FretGuru has a small, tightly focused product range. That’s by design. I figure you guys (or the market) don’t need another capo or string winder.
So I only begin to design a tool when the current available options leave me disappointed, and only move forward if I’ve come up with something that I confidently feel can be game-changing - or at least significantly improve the experience and results while at the guitar workbench.
If another company already has a product that performs at the highest level that I demand, then I generally won’t even bother to design or offer a similar product.
We have a few game changers in the works, which have been in development for a few years. I’d be glad to give you a preview when they’re ready, in exchange for your astute observations and input.
You can reach out to me at the obvious FretGuru website, or directly at: fretguru@ G Mayle dot com (in code so the bots and spammers don’t have a field day).
Thanks again, I appreciate your dedication to this work!
Bernie/FretGuru
@@FretGuruHi Bernie, how to crown a narrow and quite short fret wire like jescar 43080 with your diamond dagger?
@@theNextProjectHi John, same question as i asked Bernie, how about your take on small wire for all of the file you’ve tested?
Hey Bobby, Thanks for watching!
I won't speak for Bernie, but I would expect the Diamond Dagger to work well on 43080 wire.
For this test, I was using 51100 Jescar SS, and some StewMac nickel wire that was roughly the same. I also used the DD on a squire recently, it had pretty narrow wire and all went well.
Hope this helps.
Great test. Thank you.
My favourite fret crowning file by some margin is the StewMac Original Z-File. I agree it needs a little user input to make use of the offset angles to create a smooth transition to a fine crown.The Centred Z files don't work because they lack this offset. Most of my fret work is on new builds where any levelling is minimal and re-crowning to a fine line only takes a few strokes, but the Original Z-File also works well on frets that have required a more severe level.
The Music Nomad file is very disappointing. Whilst it feels well made, I found that my marker lines would suddenly disappear, something I've never had happen with other fret files. Maybe the fret dust is getting trapped in the channel and rubbing off the marker? On more heavily levelled frets this file gets you in the ballpark, but for a light dress and re-crown this file is close to useless. Most Music Nomad kit is pretty good; they make the best string winder and bridge pin puller out there.
I've not tried the other files you tested so cannot comment. The StewMac Original Z-File has transformed the speed I can re-crown compared with traditional triangular files. One expensive StewMac tool that is worth it, and with their lifetime guarantee you are only buying it once.
Nick, thanks for watching!
Agreed, the SM Original Z is my typical go-to fret file.
The MusicNomad file is pretty cool, but as you mention, it seems to have limited use.
Hope all is going well for you, be safe and take care!
First comment!
I am using the Baroque file along with a cheapy cheapy one I got in a set from Amazon.
I was really wanting the MusicNomad one, especially after KnowYourGear praised it so highly. But, your saying the crown is too wide does make sense.
I may try and upgrade my files soon, but the cost of all of ‘em is indeed a deterrent.
Strat update! When we left our refinished Dakota Red Strat, I had buzzing on the low E on the 8th fret and complete buzz/dead notes above the fourteenth or fifteenth notes of all the strings until I went to the 21st fret.
I used my fret rocker and found where the 8th fret began causing trouble, which was right next to the A string to the end. I filed and used my rocker, filed some more, repeated until it was flat. I then recrowned the fret and polished it up to 12000 grit.
The 21st fret got taken care of in the same fashion, but I think I need to revisit it when I change strings. Realistically, I don’t play a lot on the high frets so I am okay with leaving it for a month or two.
Tim, good to hear from you and thanks for watching!
I was actually pretty surprised by the Baroque G4, you do get a lot of file(s) for the money, and it actually did work well.
The reason I didn't move it up in my ranking, really came to how I work, and it was a bit too big for half of what I do.
I've actually thought about cutting the handle off of it, and making it a "spot" crowning all-in-one file. That sounds like work, hmm.
I had see the KnowYourGear review too, and was expecting great things from th MusicNomad file. It is a really well made tool, and will do a great job of bringing overly flat-top frets back to a workable crown shape, but I then need another tool to finish the crown before dress and polish work. So, I'm wondering what Phil was doing in his video, as I'm not seeing the same workflow with the file that he presented. Oh well. Everyone has there thing.
I'm re-reading your comments about the buzzing and dead notes. It sounds about like there may be a issue where the neck bolts to the body, around the 14th-15th fret. Almost like "ski-jump", or neck hinge. I'm working on an '89 strat, which had early onset ski-jump at that area. Good neck relief right up to +/- the 15th, then it appear the fret were getting higher and fretting out.
As it turned out, the neck from the nut to the 14th, was starting to hinge and bow up. The area bolted to the body appears to kick-up, but it's really the rest of the neck that is folding over....that sounds scary. As part of a complete re-fret, I refreshed the radius and removed the "ski-jump" giving the neck a little fall-away. I also filed a little extra fall-away in to the frets from the 12th-22nd.
I tested the top 4 files on that project, which was eye-opening. The MusicNomad was useless, as I didn't have any frets that had a wide enough crown for that file to help with. That's were I realised it will be a rough work file for frets with bigger issues.
Hope you get your strat sorted out.
Be safe and take care!
I bought the fret dagger 2.0...do you have any tips on using it ? I have used diamond fret files and own a couple but wanted to try the Dagger...looks like you can only "push it" and not back and forth.. I just realized that you used the Diamond Dagger 2.0 and not the standard Dagger 2.0 with the looks like cutting grooves...no wonder I found it for $45.
Ross, thank for watching!
The Fret Dagger 2.0 gets really good reviews, and should be a good tool for you to have.
I haven't used that particular file, but i have used gurian double-edge steel tooth files for a long time.
Your file should cut really well, and if it is like they gurian, if not careful might leave some "chatter" marks.
If you can, do some test filing to get the hang of the tool. Once you get the feel for it, you should have no trouble.
Yes, the dagger 2.0 is a "one-direction" file, not a big deal as it should really cut well.
Good luck with your projects!
@@theNextProjectI happen to have 2 necks that are worn out that I can and will practice on for sure..Thanks for the information
.
I got my Fret Dagger 2.0 Gurian type file in and finally used it and it works great..got the thin red mark onmy fret crowns and buffed them up and now ready to go. @@theNextProject
Excellent!
Glad that file is working well for you.
Good luck with your projects!
I've come to the same conclusions as you after using Zfile & Baroque. You need a second file to finish the job. After passing the diamond file, there's still a plateau and you still need to pass a standard file to crown the rest of the fret. In any case, I've adopted the oil-on-diamond-file technique! Thanks for this!
Jauni Anisé, thanks for watching!
I'm looking forward to hearing what others are experiencing using these and other files. I was rather surprised by this test, good and bad. The baroque file was actually better than I expected, the SM mini-Z was a huge disappointment. The MusicNomad S-file has a lot of great features, but I'm not sure who their test group was. I really need to follow the MN S-file with another file to get the crown thinned to an acceptable place (for me).
I hope you have good luck with the oil-on-diamond technique. I really appreciate not spending the time cleaning and re-cleaning the diamond files when using oil in the process.
Good luck with all your projects, take care!
Great info John, but they're all way out of my comfort zone so far as price is concerned. I'll be sticking with my triangle file with the safe corners until I find something better at the flee market. Thanks for taking the time. It's always a real pleasure to watch the next project.
Martin, thanks for watching!
I hear ya, every option I tested was expensive, even the Baroque G4 has a price that makes me pucker a bit.
All the others give me a sharp pain in my....wallet.
I hope this test will offer some ideas and insight for others. I was/am a bit surprised that my observations don't align with a lot of social media reports. Maybe it's because I'm not selling anything, or perhaps my process is way off mark. IDK.
I hope you are doing well, be safe and take care!
I reckon that if a triangle file is good enough for Ted (@twoodfrd), it's good enough for me ;-)
Cameron, thanks for watching!
Yes, triangle files are a great tool too.
I've had one since I got into this hobby, just don't reach for it very often any longer, but it is still a great tool and will do the job.
Be safe and take care!
Off topic...doesn't the "Z" file by StewMac put the ridge of the fret off center? And wouldn't that affect intonation?
Hello, hello and thanks for watching!
Great question, and potentially that could be the case.
Typically the SM Original Z file, with the offset "V" surface, is worked in a way that rounds one side of the fret at a time. With each pass you angle the file slightly more upright, giving you a rounded fret side, while retaining a centered crown area. Then the file is flipped over and the other side of the file is used to round the opposite side of the fret, again filing from an angle to an upright path. Hopefully ending up with a center hairline crown.
This process is why I mentioned that the StewMac Original Z-file requires the most user input. You are driving the file to position the center hairline crown. It takes a little practice, but the file can do a great job once the driver is trained.
Most of the other files have a concave filing surface, and a different kind of attention is required.
None of the files are "auto-pilot", but perhaps the closest to that would be the Music Nomad S-file. However I feel it stops short of reaching the destination. So, you need to reach for another file to finish the trip.
Sorry for the weak analogies.
I hope this helps explain the SM Original Z file.
Thanks again for watching, be safe and take care!
@@theNextProject I see. Thanks for the explanation!
So I have the music nomad s file. I have had the same experience with the center line being a bit too wide, and I noticed if I don't use it wet it scratches up the frets pretty bad. I been looking at the fret guru files. Do you prefer the diamond over the standard fret guru files?
Johnathan, thanks for watching!
Yep, I hear ya.
Using some lubricant with the S-file does help reduce the aggressive cut you mention. I really like all the innovation in that file, but I'm finding myself using other files more often at this time.
As for the orginal FretGuru Dagger fret file. I haven't used it, so I can't give you hands-on feedback, sorry.
I have used steel tooth files for a long time, and they can do a great job. They also require the user to really be tuned-in to driving the file. The three-corner and the old gurian 1/4 round files can do great work, or they and quickly destroy frets.
I haven't used cut tooth files in some time, so I'm probably not a good source for the info you seek.
Currently I'm primarily using the SM original Z, and FretGuru Diamond Dagger 2 files, with 3and1 oil as a lube. I am always looking to try new things, and hopeful that Music Nomad with have and update to there file in the future too.
Good luck with your projects!
@@theNextProject you like the z original better than the z centered?
Personally I do. Others may prefer the centered however, to each their own.
I like the fine control that is offered by the original Z. I can focus on rounding one side of the fret at a time, not have to watch both sides. Again, others may prefer the centered version.
One thing I don't like is the "compact" SM file. My hand was cramping while using it. It might be okay for a couple frets, spot work, but definitely not a full fretboard.
I sent the compact Z file back to StewMac, that was the best part of my experience with that file.
@theNextProject I been using a triangle file and the s file. I have used a few others. But I just bought the z original I'm gonna give it a try. I like the fact that you still have some control.
Sometimes with the s file I rock it side to side to thin up the line a bit. But i don't like doing that.
Also for the oil I end up using music nomad f one oil. Works well.
Sounds good, any lube, even the musicnomad f one oil should help keep the file from plugging up.
I've rocked the S-File side-to-side to get a narrower crown too, but don't like that I can't easily see what I'm doing.
It's good to have all the tools you do, you'll have a solution for any situation.
Good luck with your projects!
Thanks for persevering. I do find the asking price of such kit off-putting, esp. for US-made or -supplied tools imported into the UK, so having this real world comparison is undoubtedly helpful. Ergonomics-wise, the MusicNomad offering suggests a better user handling experience, but for me, that’s gonna have to wait a while 😞
MuseumsBloke, thanks for watching!
Agreed, the price of these is off-putting. That is part of the reason I did this test, and basically threw money away doing so. I'm hoping the outcome will help others either side-step, or put off getting certain files.
The Music nomad has great hype, offering ultimate ease of use for all audiences. But, while a great tool, I found it sadly fall short of expectations.
I could see a few potential upgrades to that file. A thin center crown rib, and finer 300 grit coating. Another idea would be to have one side of the file as-is, and the flip side the more refined "finish file". Meh, they didn't ask me.
Any of these files require a lot of work to recoup the initial expense.
Hope you are doing well, be safe and take care!
Do you consider it a good thing whether or not the crown line is super thin? You just mentioned it in the part I'm listening to. I would fret (haha) about ruining the leveling.
Andrew, thanks for watching!
Crown width seems to be subjective, but I personally attempt to reduce the flat leveling area to a thin "hairline", at least as much as possible. I didn't waste much time during this test trying to get a hairline, as a couple of the files just won't go there.
As for ruining the leveling, I guess that depends on how heavy handed the person is doing the crowning, dressing and polishing.
If I happen to crown and finish the hairline away, it would likely be in the ten-thousandths of an inch amount.
Interesting thing, while I was working and re-working this test board, I only removed 0.007" of material total during all the re-levels. So a lot of leveling didn't take much off the frets. So even less is removed bringing the flat level into a crowned shape, again depending on how heavy handed the person is.
For me, the finer the crowned line, the less finish work and smoother polished frets I can make.
Better bending, smoother feel... better playing guitar.
That being said, I've seen, and worked on some frets that I call "plateau crowned". They are pretty much flat top leveled, maybe a little crowning to ease the edges, then fine sanded and polished.... still a flat top fret, just shiny.
So, to each their own I guess.
Hope this helps explain what I mentioned. Thanks for asking, take care!
Very helpful. Thanks.
Ron, thanks for watching!
Please know that any of these files (and many others) will do the job just fine.
Each person will have their personal favorite, and that's all good too.
For me, this test was to find a better file, and way of doing this work than what I had been. I expected big things in some tools and wasn't really happy with the results at times.
Good luck with your file quest!
That’s some nerdy, niche stuff…I loved it…great work my man 👍
LOL "nerdy, niche", bwahaha, that got me laughin!
👍
After trying several different files, what seems to work for me now is the original fret guru file(non diamond) to cut through very quickly and shape the crown then the zfile for super thin center strip. I use an old toothbrush to constantly clean the diamond file from buildup.
I got the fret guru file when it first came out, it was about $40. Id recommend that file for the money or the hosco regular crowning files…a little more work but they’re not expensive and high quality…i prefer the hosco dressing file over the stewmac anyday
K Matax, thanks for watching and sharing your tool/process too.
I'm really like the original zfile for the hairline too, just not easily getting there with any of these other files.
I was really surprised by how much I hate the SM mini centered Z-File, and how many people claim to love it, oh well. I actually have an old offset Z-file that I cut the handle off of. It's basically the offset mini-Z, not centered. I actually use and enjoy the old file that I cut down, but not the new official model.
Thanks for the info on the FG and Hosco files, good stuff!
Be safe and take care!
which file won you stopped at #2 ?
I'm making a system where each fret is perfectly set, no leveling required! almost there, lil' tweaking... factory micro polished, ball ends .. easy, fugg all that filing, with stainless why? you shouldn't ever have to dress or level them every the life of the guitar if you use nickle strings, (softer)
get some diamond paper, the good stuff, double sticky tape to your regular crown file, same for leveling, just use diamond paper stuck to a beam... fuggit
Dean, thanks for watching!
#2 is kinda of a toss-up. I felt both the FretGuru Diamond Dagger 2, and the StewMac original Z-file were both there.
They are different files on design and function. Really hard to call one better than the other.
The reality is that any of the files tested will do the job well. Some make the job easier, or feel better when used - that's important to me.
Ive been using the SM original Z-file for many years, it does a great job for sure. The only issue I see with it is ease of use on the upper frets over the body. There is no offset, so the process needs to slow a bit.
Hope this helps.
Take care!
I was looking at the Music Nomad S-file even though I like the Baroque file..I was actually going to order it tomorrow morning but not now..I too like a fairly narrow crown on top..easier to bend etc...might look at my Baroque file and see if I can cut the handle off and maybe weld the internal metal part of the handle at somewhat of an offset..haha ! I have the tools and welding machine to do it if its possible.
Ross, thanks for watching!
The MusicNomad is a good file, but as you mentioned, leaves a rather wide crown.
I keep using mine, and find it a "rough work" file. I still need to follow it with a second file to finish the job. I hope they will come out with a version 2 with a narrower safety zone.
Sounds like you will have a custom tool built soon.
Good luck with your projects.
Be safe and take care@+!
I've got a few different crowding files but I always end up using my Z files. They just work. I like the fret guru file as well.
Carl, thanks for watching!
Agreed, the Z file - just work!
Hope all is well, be safe and take care!
The mini Z file is really for working the frets over an acoustic body or set neck, downside is you need two Z files, normal and mini, Thank you for doing this
Thanks for watching!
Agreed, the compact Z is really for spot work, or up over the body of a set neck instrument.
However, I added it to the list of tools as so many people are/were saying it is the best thing since sliced bread.
I still like sliced bread, but not a fan of the compact Z file, for spot work or anything.
My favorite part of that file was the SM customer service. No issue sending that little file back.
Everyone will have their favortie, and something that fits them best.
Nice to have options.
Be safe and take care!
@@theNextProjectis it mainly the ergonomics for you? I bought that file but haven’t used it yet. It’s my only crowning file. My hands are not that big and just holding it feels fine.
Hexspa, thanks for watching!
To a degree, yes the ergonomics is a big issue (for me) with the compact Z-file.
It does work well, but I found it almost painful to use as it has sharp edges which cut into my finger and palm.
Also, the size was causing me hand cramping while using it. I honestly didn't experience that with any other file used.
I also have an oooold Original Z-file that I had cut the handle off, rounded/eased the edges, and I feel it is a better tool than the newer compact Z-File.
The compact Z will do the work, so don't take my concerns too harshly. I am simply comparing it to the other files at hand. Each has great features and potentially some limitations.
You made a good purchase, and it will serve you well.
Be safe and take care!
@@theNextProject Thanks! I appreciate it.
Great video! The StewMac files work well for me, but always make my hands sore (both the compact one and the offset Z file). I want to try the Music Nomad fret file, but my Music Nomad nut files have already started losing their diamond coating, so I'm wary of buying their other diamond file products.
Philip, thanks for watching!
I was having some serious hand cramps from using the SM mini file, and getting poked by the sharp edges too. Ended up wrapping part of it in masking tape just so I could test the file more. So my takeaway with the SM Mini was "why should I use a tool that makes a less than enjoyable task, painful?".
The MusicNomad S-File is really well made, I like the innovation and such, but it seems be a rough-in type file. Take a set of heavily worn and plateau leveled frets and bring them back to near crown. Then grab the SM original Z to finish the job... Doesn't really seem like the ideal workflow to me. But maybe I'm just a bit weird.
I did attempt to use it on a strat refret, but the new frets barely needed any leveling, even at the fall-away area. The MN S-file, has such I wide crown ( approx. 1mm ), there was nothing it could do to help, so I used other files to do the crowning.
I have some MN nut files (new to me), so I'll keep and eye on them to see how quickly they wear - thanks for the heads up on that.
Be safe and take care!
I almost bought the whole set of music nomad nut files😮😮😮
Anyone thinking of getting anything other than a triangle file, I would not waste my time on any fancy one. I used one, it came out great. I have never did it before or anything even close to this job, and it came out great. I have been playing on my guitar for 2 months now, everything is wearing evenly. The triangle give you a lot of control, not just blindly convering the fret. I got a full kit of 3 files to dress the ends from stewmac on sale, so happy i did it. I was regretting every second not buying one of these up until the point I finished the job. OK MAYBE if your job is doing this all day, I imagine this could save time, but I still think if this was my job, I would have a "fancy file" but still have a triangle to make the crown extra tight.
Baker, thanks for watching!
Glad you are enjoying the SM files, they sell some really great tools.
This video was focused on diamond files, and while steel cut-tooth files are great, I wanted to focus on just the diamond variety.
I still have my triangle and a couple other steel files. Great tools to have.
Good luck with your projects, be safe and take care!
Thanks! I guess a diamond triangle would be nice lol!
Nope
Hey J.C. please expand on your comment of "Nope".
Sorry but I don't want to assume anything.
Do you mean a diamond triangle file wouldn't be nice, or something else.
Thanks in advance.
Baker, a diamond triangle file, or even a steel tooth triangle file is basically 3 flat files. In a way, the StewMac Original Z-file is similar to a triangle file. You only use one side of it at a time anyway.
There are flat jeweler diamond files, also similar files for glass work. Some of these flat diamond files can be used on frets too. There are various abrasive grits available as well.
Sometimes it's fun to experiment. 👍
I did buy the centered z-file and found it just fine… got a nice thin crown , found it cut well, would def try the cutting oil next time. So although you rated it last, in my hands it gave good results.
Mike, thanks for watching and I'm glad to hear the SM file is working.
Did you get the full-length center file, or the compact version?
I found the compact version caused my hand to cramp after a couple frets, and that the rubber grip didn't really improve the issue - at least for me it didn't.
Also, the edges were pretty sharp, so while it did cut well I felt it wasn't any better than the others I tested and was the least enjoyable to use.
That's just my experience.
Glad it's working for you.
Be safe and take care!
It's for new frets with a lot of material. Th standard Z file is what you want for normal level & crowning. The fact that he didn't even understand this says TONS about this useless test. IMO, that takes the Z file out of the test. It's for an entirely different job.
Hey J.C., sorry you didn't understand the idea of this test.
I see all crowning files as designed to do - crowning. So, I gathered a handful of options and tried them.
Comparing one file immediately to the next was a very interesting experience. Shows the strengths, weaknesses and behaviors of each.
User comfort/ergonomics wasn't something I considered until running this comparison, now it is.
I feel I "understand" a lot more having done this test. My takeaway is that the SM centered does work, it isn't the best for me, by a long shot.
Your conclusion may vary.
Take care!
I agree the full-sized original Z-file is an excellent file. Not sure what you mean by it needing considerable experience though. I think it's basically foolproof, requiring the least user experience, compared to most crowning files. The only problem is the cost. But it's one of the few Stewmac products that I think is worth what you pay. Crowning is a pain with a bad file (and there are quite a few like that). The Z-file's two flat angled facets avoid the problems with curved-concave files designed for one fret width only. The Z-file is almost "one size fits all".
VW, thanks for watching!
I feel the Original Z requires a better eye and attention span, than do many of the concave files. It goes where the user drives it, the concave files just ride the rails (frets), for better or worse.
The Orig-Z won't give you a crown, unless you drive it to a crown. But like you say, it is one-size fits all file.
The Orig-Z is my go-to, and it will do anything I direct it to - at a price as you say. Yep.
I was really disappointed by the SM centered V file. Personally, I like the Original far better, but many will debate that. To each there own.
I kinda see the concave files as having a generic built-in auto-pilot (the Tesla of fret files), the user isn't required to do as much driving, and the file won't do anything special unless directed to do so.
They don't require as much personal touch, or finesse for "basic" crowning.
But we want something better than basic, so we reach for the Orig-Z.
Just had a mental image/comparison of the the MusicNomad S-File to bumper bowling. An oddly accurate comparison, lol. It just rides the rail, then skates and does nothing. No gutter ball, no strike either, just along for the ride.
Thanks for the comment, I like hearing from others and how they get along with this kind of stuff.
Be safe and take care!
I've used Baroque unfortunately the coating is not even.
Music nomad looks interesting however as you said second file is needed to finish the job.
Thanks for the video
Johny, thanks for watching!
Sorry to hear of your poor experience with the Baroque file. I think there is a "break-in" period for that file, and maybe some of the others too.
I was really excited to try the Music Nomad file, and while it is a great and innovative design, it didn't really fit my needs. I've dropped a few hints to MN, suggesting a version 2, but we shouldn't hold our breathe on that.
As you mentioned, it does need a second file to finish the job, which is sad to say.
Right now I'm splitting project work between the FretGuru Diamond Dagger 2, and the old StewMac original Z-File (offset "v" design). Both of these files seem to get me where I need to go.
Good luck with your projects!
I'm a fan of the original Z-file; it's quick and does a relatively good and quite acceptable job. However, nothing, in my opinion, gives better results than an old-school triangular file. The learning curve isn't all that steep, and although it takes longer than the Z-file and it's competitors, the results in reasonably skilled hands cannot be beat.
tmx, thanks for the added comment!
Yep, there are a lot of good fret file options, new and old. I still have a 3-sided file, a gurian file and some other oddities laying about.
I felt the steel cut-tooth file comparison had already been done, that's why I focused on the diamond files. This was originally a test just to answer my own curiosity, but seemed worth sharing as many of these get a lot of promotion from product "fans".
I had really expected the new Music Nomad file to be my walkaway favorite...nope. I've swapped some messages with MN, who are very receptive to comment and discussion, good people.
Can't say there will be any new file on the market soon, development takes time...
I still find myself reaching for the SM original Z, as it can do just about everything I need. I actually have a cutoff version of it too, with rounded/eased edges. It works way better than the SM compact Z that I tested.
Sorry for the rambling.
Be safe and take care!
You can adjust the crown of any of those by rocking the file a few degrees each way. Even the wrong Z file.
J.C., thanks for watching!
That is true. Files, both diamond or steel tooth can be physically manipulated to adjust the function of the file.
I don't understand what you mean by "the wrong Z-file".
Which one? I tested 2 Z-files.
I've found that only Original Z should be leaned to the side, that's largely it's design. The centered Z is more a straight up style tool, from what I found. I thought leaning it would help greatly, but not so much. I found the Center Z is best chased with another file to fix the fret-side faceting the file wants to leave behind, as well as improving the final crown width. Again, just my findings from trying a bunch of stuff with these files.
Thanks for the note.
Be safe and take care!
I wonder what kind of files you could get for like $10-$50 price ranges..? Would be a cool low budget video version for all us poor folk 😊
Mr. Monster, thanks for watching!
That a great idea, and I already have some of those "affordable" files.
The really cheap stuff from Amazon/eBay, typically make the work harder. I've had bad luck with the really low end files. In the $40-$60 range, there is a much better tier of files available.
Hosco and FretGuru both have some good files in that range.
I'll check my wallet and give the low cost shootout some thought.
Thanks for the interest/idea .
Take care!
Good one ole buddy. Hi Laura 😆❤️
Hey Mike, good to hear from you!
I'll pass the word along.
Take care my friend!
Hey buddy, hope all is well. Sorry about my last few comments. I had a temporary loss of sanity. I have the Z file which i like but its not that easy to use. They all seem expensive to me. The z file definitely has some sharp edges but it'll work with the neck on. Just keep it clean. My first file was 5 dollars and i still uae it to take off that center line, 😆 i still have a few builds I'm working on. The latest is a fender stratocaster 50's Stratocaster with a quite wonderful Standard Squier Stratocaster neck. They both fit like a glove. The body's in great shape and is mint green. The neck is a lefty that i converted to a right handed. I wish i could afford the fender neck but this one is a step up from the normal Squier necks in that it has the same specs as a fender. I wish i could make the one ghat originally came with this body. The verterra has it in roasted maple and 7.25 radius like the original did.
ranman! good to hear from you, and no worries. I could tell you were dealing with some tough times. Hope things are going better for you now.
Agreed, the Z file probably has the largest need for user input and control, but it can also deliver great results. My impatience often gets in the way of proper handling. I find myself needing to step-back, regroup, slow myself down and work the file, not just rush the process. Haste makes waste, and I'm pretty good at haste!
I'm finding that using oil (3 and 1 oil most recently), really resolves the need to clean the diamond files. The oil keeps everything suspend, no more plugged up diamond grit. I wish I would have stumble apon using oil a few years ago.
Sounds like a great project you have going. I'll check your channel, you may have that guitar in one of your vids.
Good to hear from you again, take care my friend!
@@theNextProject, thank you, good to hear from you too. I'm ok but it's still very hard here. Good word man. Lots of peoples lives are crashing. I love guitar's but I cannot focus on it for long or I get accused of not doing what I could be doing instead. So, I have projects now, that don't get done. Focusing on the garden now. Food for the future, if there is one.
I bought the StewMac z file and had to send it back. Missing an area of grit and tool marks on the edges of the smmoth filing face that could chew the fretboard. Very disappointing. They easily refunded my money. I used a triangle file to complete the job.
Picker, thanks for watching.
The compact Z file I tested was pretty rough on the smooth surfaces too.
I still use my original offset z-file.
Old-school triangle files are good to have on hand.
Good luck with your projects.
Be safe and take care!
Bought the bitteroot one after watching this video 😊
I hope yours doesn't have the sharp edges.
If it does, a little file work and it will be good to go!
Thanks for watching, take care
A simple triangle file can work well, and has for years.
Dugbert, thanks for watching!
True, triangle files do work, and have been used by a lot of us.
This is a test of diamond files, which I switched to a long time ago, being the SM original Z.
It was a great expense and full of frustration due to the surface continually plugging up.
Since adding a cutting fluid to my process, the need to clean the file has been resolved.
Even when I used 1/4 round and triangle files, I had to clean the teeth of those files, so possibly using cutting fluid may help that style file as well, but I haven't tried fluid with those.
Hope all is well, take care!
Stewmac has a safety edge z file which is great for beginners
Tommy, thanks for watching!
Yep, the SM safety edge Z is nearly identical to the SM original Z, only without the diamond grit on one surface.
They do make/sell really get files.
Hope all is well for you, be safe and take care!
Isn't the centered Z file designed to be full proof? Why would the centered Z file be inferior to the original Z file?
Troy, thanks for watching!
Yes, you could say the center Z is intended to be "fool proof". The design is rather basic in an attempt to make it that way.
There are 2 "V" sides to the centered file. A wide flat-ish V on one side, and on the other side a medium width V.
In this test, I only had the compact center file version, not the long handle version. I found the compact file to be very uncomfortable to use, and that largely directed my opinion of the file. The edges are rather sharp, the size is hard to hang onto, the rubber band cover did little to improve these issues. I ended up wrapping it with masking tape to protect my finger and palm while using it.
Also, the finish was rather rough and scarred on either side of the diamond coating. Low quality control it appeared.
The file did cut well, but it wants to facet the fret, using one side initially, then flipping the file to use the other side. So, you need to use it in a similar fashion to the SM Original Z-file, by tilting it slightly side-to-side to get a smoother round shape to the sides of the fretwire, and to narrow the final crown width.
So, yes, it is fool proof in concept and basic function, but I felt most of the other files I tested worked equally as well, and most were more comfortable.
The Compact File is likely ideal for the few frets where the body and neck meet, or on spot work. I would not want to use it on a full fingerboard.
On the bright side, StewMac has great customer service, and I returned the file no questions asked for a full refund.
There are many people who use and love the SM Compact Centered Z file, I'm not debating that. It's just not close to being a favorite of mine.
I actually have an Origial Z-file that I had cut the handle off and rounded the ends. It has no rubber band cover and is waaaay more comfortable to use than was the compact center Z-file. So, I was rather disappointed to try a "real" SM compact file, it paled in comparison to my modified version. Interesting - to me.
I find the original to offer better user control, but that could just be me. I've used the Original for a number of years, and know the process and how to handle it. The Compact Centered, felt like it was trying to do too much, but didn't really do a better job. Again, just my point of view.
Thanks again for watching and the question too.
Hope all is well, be safe and take care!
The experience I had with the earlier gen Baroque files would place it solidly out of contention, regardless of whatever improvements they may have made in the years since. Any company who at one time released a file to the market that destroyed fret tops on the very first stroke is not to be trusted ever again.
tmx, thanks for watching!
I've heard mention of such damaging issues with the early Baroque files.
I'm guessing they heard the complaints too. If i recall, there was a "break-in process" letter included with the Gen4 file. I had considered breaking the file in before doing my test, but let's face reality...who follows the instructions. LOL.
Hope all is going well for you, be safe and take care!
Three-corner file, good eye, steady hand, NO GIMMICKS. Simple.
Hey OutrageDuck, thanks for watching!
Yep, 3 corner file, gurian file, various shaped steel tooth files, then diamond files. Some may be better than others, but all good tools.
The carpenters hand saw was updated to the circular saw, then miter saws.... Steps in evolution, all good tools, all will do the job.
Constantly looking to do better work, with less work.
All good!
Be safe and take care!
How do you clean your file
Ron, thanks for watching!
Since I started using cutting fluid, or 3 and 1 oil with the diamond files, I haven't had to clean the files. I just wipe the file with a paper towel and reapply a drop of oil before starting the next fret.
Before using oil with the file, I had to stop every few frets, use denatured alcohol or similar to soak the file surface, a old tooth brush, or more typically a fine brass "tooth" brush. Looks like a regular tootbrush, but has fine brass wires for scrubbing.
The constant plugging up of my fret file got so bad, I bought a second file just so I could get further down a fingerboard before having to clean the files. Then I'd stop and clean 2 files at one time, then get back to work... Life kinda sucked, all better now.
I hope this helps, good luck with your projets!
@@theNextProject thanks for fast response
Good video, I have a "NOT SO PRO TIP" for you, from another industry, lose the oil/cutting fluid, and apply chalk to your file every couple frets, the chalk stops the file from loading, Caution, I've not used it on a diamond file, only regular files, but the concept is the same
sthom, thanks for watching!
Good tip, and I have used chalk on both regular steel tooth file and tried it on the diamond files.
To my surprise, oil actually worked better on regular steel file for a recent project/experiment. Results may vary depending on the type of metal being filed and scale of project however.
My recent "experiment" had my steel file continually plugging up heavily with and without chalk, then I tried 3and1 oil on it, and barely had any issue, other than an oily file.
That test was removing a shoulder from a cast metal insert that was chucked in my drill press. It was spinning, I was filing...and cussing a bit initially. The cast metal really stuck to the steel file. My file brush did little to remove the material from the file, had to pick most of it out. Then I figured "why not try oil", and almost no issue with plugging, and the file brush removed everything easily at that point. I was a bit shocked.
But, it's oil, it can be a bit messy. Good times.
Thanks again for watching and mentioning chalk too.
Be safe and take care!
Another tip ...
Ditch the files that are "for" that size fret...
Always go with a larger file , hold one side and file .... turn it around , or apply pressure to the other side and get that line as thin as you want...
As far as oil? I don't know ... maybe lemon oil might work ... I use it anyway to help keep the water moisture out yet keep the fretboard from shrinking also detures the fretboard from soaking up somethingy ou don'twant it to like coke , beer , roll whatever else that someone spills on your guitar
. so I wouldn't worry if a little got on a fretboard.. of an expensive guitar fretboard if filing..
I know some luthiers will use any oil... and even boiled linseed oil.. I'm not one of those.
Freese, thanks for watching and the note!
Maybe I should have explained that I'm using a drop of cutting fluid/oil. The fingerboard isn't really getting anything on it to speak of.
l typically tape the board too, which I didn't in this test just to see how much damage the files would do...or I would do, LOL.
Anyway, cutting fluid isn't required, just an idea for those who want to try it.
I'm currently using 3and1 oil and haven't noticed any harm or discoloration to fingerboards, either maple, rosewood or ebony. They all clean up looking good. Again, a drop and not getting it all over the place.
I really like how the diamond files no longer plug up with fret debris. I probably keep using a cutting fluid until I find something better.
Thanks again, be safe and take care!
Fret Maestro.
FirstWorker, thanks for watching!
I haven't tried the Fret Maestro, as it is a bit more expensive than any of the files that I've tried so far, and radius specific.
It looks like there is a new maestro "omni pro" version for conical radius boards. It appears the main depth-stop handle part has a flat bottom to follow the fingerboard radius shape, allowing for any radius...
Since I work on a number of different fret radius', I'd have to invest in numerous radius-specific maestro file inserts, or possibly the new omni-pro version.
The maestro is ± $190 per radius set, or a pre-determined 4 radi set for $600, or Pro package for $2000 which appears to have all radi and the Omni Pro too.
Interesting tools, just can't justify them at the moment.
Hope all is well, be safe and take care!
try the hoco uf01 or ufo2 circle fret file i made a handle thru center and grip the divit between R
jrjr, thanks for watching!
I'm not familiar with Hoco brand, but I do have a Hosco HF ? semi-circle cut steel tooth mini file.
It's pretty good, but can leave some chatter marks if not careful.
Not sure if this is the type of file you are mentioning.
In this video, I really just wanted to compare and contrast a few of the current diamond files. Mostly to satisfy my own curiosity. There are many, many great files available, both steel tooth and diamond.
Be safe and take care!
@@theNextProject yes but they make two sizes i find if you put a four or five inch long small broom handle depending on how wide your hands are thru the circle and snug it it works better then finger less marks what do you think ?
@@theNextProject and Thank you for answering also later have comment on nomad how i use it
Modifications are great, do what make it work...
The MusicNomad S-file is very straight forward.
Their "how-to" video also tell the story.
However, I found that if I use the file "as recommeneded" by Music Nomad, it didn't really do the job I want it to.
However, it does do the job it is designed to do, and that is where I feel the MN S-file falls short. The center safety rib is a deliberate design feature, that results in a center crown that is roughly +/- 1/32" or +/- 1mm wide. That and the rather coarse diamond grit require me to use another tool to get a vary narrow crown with fewer diamond grit scratches in the fretwire.
I really like the design in general, just not how it works in reality. I've since attempted to use it on a number of projects, and the end result is always the same. The MN S-file is a rough work file - for me, not a finish file such as the StewMac Original Z, or the FretGuru Diamond Dagger 2.
I’ve recently had to buy some electrical tools and the prices are reasonable, nothing outrageous…then I look at luthier tools and it is absolutely ridiculous…over 100 bucks for 1 file…and that’s just one example…I can’t think of any trade where the price of tools is so expensive…maybe there is but I don’t know of any!!!
Thanks for watching!
Completely get what you're saying. Maybe the electrical tool market has a larger audience, and the tools are mass produced.
Luthier repair tools cater to a rather small following, so it's kinda like everything is "custom".
A fret slotting circular sawblade is $100, but we can buy a sawblade at Lowes for $15 and up. Of course the Lowes blade is made by the tens-of-thousands, and marketed at the home DIY person.
I looked into this kinda thing a few vids back.
ruclips.net/video/qE_a7SPZtb4/видео.html
Be safe and take care!
@@theNextProject ….agreed…well said!!!!
I think the offset it key. No reason trying to hover so close to the soundboard.
Sam, thanks for watching!
Agreed, offset is a huge improvement.
The otherwise rounded nose on a couple files also helps greatly.
Take care!
i bet stewmac releases a better version of the s file with a smaller safe zone. why is the s file getting so much praise if it has such a fatal flaw?
Bilal, thanks for watching!
SM might borrow the idea and release a file with a smaller safe zone, that would be interesting.
Not sure why the Music Nomad S-file is getting so much praise. I guess everyone else either accepts a wide crown, or is doing something else with the file.
I like the idea, just not the results.
Take care!
👍
Thanks for watching, take care my friend!
What is the number 1 winner ? Two tied for second? Lol
Larra, thanks for watching!
Sorry I left everyone hanging with my indecision.
Honestly, all these files are capable of doing the job, and each person will have their own favorite.
I've used the StewMac Original Z-file for a handful of years, so I know how to get a specific crown with that file.
Putting it in the top "2" is perhaps a bit biased, but it is a really good file.
The FretGuru Diamond Dagger 2 file, also in the top "2", is a new file to me and I honestly didn't expect it to do as well as it did/does.
The diamond coating is a bit different on this file, but seems to work very well. It's now done work on a half dozen necks.
MusicNomad S-File has a ton of innovation and design benefits. I really expected it to be my favorite, it just looks the part and everyone is saying it's the best thing since sliced bread. Then I used it, and while I still appreciate all the design, I find it stops short of doing the job. I've been in contact with MN, we've discussed some issues I have with the file.
In hind-sight, I'm not sure I should have even given it a #3 spot.
The offset file from Bitterroot (StewMac sells a very similar file). This file had very sharp edges when I pulled it from the package. I wouldn't have been able to use it without injuring myself, so I took a flat file to all the edges and fixed it. Honestly, it does a great job! The rounded/offset ends solve the issue of getting up over the body on an acoustic or set neck instrument. One thing I would like to see changed is to have one side of the file noticeably narrower than the other. They appear to be identical concave surfaces.
The Baroque Gen4, another surprise and a really good file for the money, it's just too big for half of the work that I do.
StewMac Compact Z-file. I had a hard time using this file. It is compact enough to use over the body of an acoustic and such, which is good. However, it's shape/design caused my hand to continually cramp, and sharp edges cut into my fingers and palm while in use. The results were also average, it can create a reasonably narrow crown, but other files are far more comfortable to do the same job. Also, this file has 2 different V shaped sided, and narrow V and a wide/flat V. The idea is to start the crowning with one side and finish with the other, to get a final "hairline" crown. The idea does work somewhat, but I found it took more work to get there and the file left a faceted fret. I could easily see flatened filed angle facets along the sides of the frets.
I still use my old SM Original Z-File on nearly every job, also the FretGuru DD 2. I keep trying to find a use for the MN S-file, but it just leaves too wide of a crown.
Sorry, I don't have a clear winner from this failed test.
I hope all is well for you, be safe and take care!
Thanks i watched a couple times i really enjoyed it and think they were all great too for different things. I've tried the baroque gen 3 and 4 and the fret guru one without the diamond cutting. I work as a guitar tech at guitar center thanks for the video!
Thanks for the multiple re-watches!
I'd love to hear your thoughts on different tools, being a front-line responder to guitar issues, you probably have some valuable insight.
Slightly off-topic, I've been interested in the StewMac Fret Kisser for some time, but the cost has been a negative factor. I noticed the SM price recently dropped by ±$30 for the Fret kisser, and about the same time MusicNomad introduced an understring "U" shape tool(s) that do the same basic thing. I picked up the MusicNomad version (impulse purchase). I"ll be trying it out this weekend, and probably do a short vid on it.
Let me know you thoughts on various tools at your bench.
Thanks!
The centered Z file is for new frets. The standard Z file is what you should have used against the others. They're 2 totally different files for 2 totally different purposes. The offset file is used with older frets that have been leveled and need to be crowned. Smh. This test is pretty useless. The fact that you didn't even take the time to read up on the different Z files tells me you went into this with opinions already formed.
J.C., thanks again for the note and the critical critique.
Sorry you found the file comparison useless, that's fine as I mentioned everyone will have a different takeaway.
I was looking to compare a handful of diamond files of which I was interested in. I was looking for an upgrade, and ran a test.
Sorry, I don't understand the first part of your comment "centered Z file is for new frets. The standard Z file (original Z I assume) is what you should have used against the others."
I did use the SM Original Z-file and all the others, including the SM Compact Centered Z-File.
You then mentioned that the offset file is used for older frets. Again, I'm not sure if you mean the standard/original Z-file, or actually mean the "Offset" file which I did use in this comparison. Sorry, you kinda lost me there.
If you mean the actual "offset" file compared to a centered Z-File, yes, they are different, actually many of the files are somewhat different, but I don't see any of them being intended for new frets or old worn frets. However, during this test I did find the MusicNomad S-File to be more of a rough-work, old-worn fret crowning file than the others tested. But that's a different point, I believe.
I do understand the difference in the Origianl Z-file, the Safety Z-file and the Centered Z-file in design and use. I didn't spend time offering a how-to on any of these files, nor a how-to-manipulate, or issue work-around lesson for any file. That wasn't the scope of this out-of-the-box test.
Sorry you felt I didn't take time to read, which is not the case. I expect everyone who decides to purchase any tool to do just that, READ, don't ask me as I don't work for the company.
Everyone should get the "how-to" info from the source, not me, as this was not a training video. In general, there isn't great user info for most of these files, The baroque did supply a full page of info, how-to, break-in... The Z files is largely only what StewMac videos show, or other end-users post - which is lacking typically.
Sorry you think my opinions were pre-determined, honestly that is farthest from the actual outcome, maybe you missed that part of the video.
Backstory time.
I've been using the SM original Z-file for many, many years. I actually have 3 of them. This is largely due to a common problem, that isn't documented very well, and that is diamond file grit plugging up - continually - during use. I was spending more time cleaning the file than using it. So, I ended up with 3 files so I could get a more work done between gang-cleaning. A few years back, I cut the handle off one of the original Z-files, making my own "compact" Z. I rounded and eased the edges, it is VERY comfortable, and can be used for a full fingerboard if needed. I don't even have the rubber band grip on it, and it's a better tool than the newer SM centered Z-file.
Jumping ahead.
Earlier this year, I had been hearing more and more about the Music Nomad S-file. Best thing since slice bread - so I heard. The MN product videos show a straight forward use, great results... Phil McKnight did a video gave it high praises... the internet exploded with everyone saying it was the only file you would ever need. I was intrigued and excited by this, as I've have a love-hate relationship with the SM files. Other files also caught my attention. I decided to open my wallet and hope to find a magic tool that was better, much better.
Then I did my comparison.
I attempted to use each file ONLY as it was designed to be used, not cheat the file, which it is necessary to do so for some of these files. But that wasn't what I was testing to find. I wanted to see which tool did the job it was designed to do. To learn if the ergonomics, and materials were put together in a user-friendly way to help me get the job done better and easier.
I did mention that any of these files will do the job and that everyone may have a different favorite. I also mentioned that I was surprised by how good the Baroque file was for the money, how poorly produced the offset file was, how uncomfortable the SM compact file was to use, my reservation with the FretGuru DD 2, and that the SM original Z lacking offset... I did try to offer honest reaction to every tool.
I may have a bias for the Original Z, as I've used it for so long, and recently started using a light oil with it.
It is a far better file with oil, in my opinion, and it seems all the files I tested did a better job when cutting fluid/oil was introduced. I also wonder if a cutting fluid will help prolong the diamond grit of these files, but time will tell. Some people will scold me for using a cutting fluid, others may give it a try. It is up to the user, not me, it is just an idea, a suggestion to consider. I've used a drop of oil per fret on a dozen fingerboards now. I honestly enjoy doing fretwork now, it's actually easier, even with the SM original Z files. Your results may vary however.
Of the files I tested, the biggest surprise was how limited/limiting the great design of the MN S-file is. The safety rib is designed to be used upright, not cheated side-to-side, as that negates the reason for having the safety rib largely. So, I used it as designed, and I was disappointed with the results.The file leaves a 1/32" wide crown, which is typically where most of my crowning work begins. So, this file does little, if anything for me. It also has the coarse diamond coating, which I found unnecessary. At the end of the day, I see the MN S-File as a rough work file for heavily worn/leveled fret re-crown as a starting file. Yes, I've cheated the file, using it side-to-side, and i honestly get better, faster results using other files. That was the intent of the comparison anyway, to compare and contrast.
I've used all of these files since posting the video, accept for the SM center file, which I sent back to SM. While it does cut well, and it can be cheated side-to-side in use to get a finer crown, and yes, you should use both sides of the file to do the job. I found it to be a spot repair file, or limited in practical use to the high frets where the neck and body overlap. Not ideal for a full fingerboard - at least not for me, i'll grab another tool that is more comfortable and does a better job. I also expect the long handled version of this file to actually be better, easier to use, but hindered somewhat over the neck/body area as is the original Z-file.
I've since swapped messages with Bernie of FretGuru, and Jonathan of Music Nomad. Both are great fellows and are both interested in creating better tools for people like us. SM has a great customer support department and returning the Centered Z was painless.
Anyway, sorry you didn't get anything from the video. Thanks for watching anyway.
Be safe and take care!
your intro sucks ... deeply! Have you been a lawyer in your first job, or a public official?
Bwahahaha! now that's funny!
I had forgotten what the intro for this video was, ah yes.
So, the disclaimer, why not make fun of it and the test too.
Hope you enjoyed what followed the intro.
No law degree nor public service work in my past...maybe I should look into that. Thanks! for the idea!
Hope all is well, be safe and take care!