It is not a modification to remove the bottom metal plate. It is not only speakers that makes vibrations. Some turntables are constructed heavy, for better low end sound, and i think the people at AT tested out with measurement equipment, what was best for the sound, when they put the metalplate in the bottom.
There is a less destructive way to modify this turntable. At the "loop around" board just unsolder the factory RCA cables and install your own. That way you can leave the preamp board more or less connected and in place, just in case you want to put the turntable back into original configuration. Edit: the large piece of metal in the base not only adds mass to dampen vibrations, it also serves as a shield against electrical or rf interference.
Not that I am aware of. I have extensive electronics background so i chose to just unsolder all of the unnecessary wires and rerouted, bypassing the preamp. That way, if i decide to get rid of it I can put all of the wires back where they belong.
@AndrewPoulain2007 It makes sure the turntable and receiver are at the same ground level, to prevent hum from getting into the audio. Some LPs develop a static charge, especially those that are stored in a plastic sleeve, instead of a normal paper sleeve, and also when played on a turntable with a plastic platter. There are anti-static sprays available to help reduce this.
@giammyzanna If you notice hum in the audio, adding a ground wire should eliminate it. Follow the wires coming out of the tonearm, and you'll probably see the green and blue wires joined together at some point. This is the ground, and you can add a wire attached from that point to your receiver's phono ground terminal.
Excellent video, and I must say that after you bypassed the USB board, I noticed a big difference in the high end than the last video when you played the same record. Thanks for such an informative video.
For others attempting this, at 2:50, it would be a lot easier to use the tone arm lock, and turn it over on its lid. The presenter doesn't seem to like the idea of the lid. He must like dusting...
@grod75 Even with the built-in preamp switched off, so you can use an external preamp, the audio signal still runs through several small capacitors. Phono cartridges are designed with a certain capacitance rating, and when you add more capacitance between it and the preamp, it negatively affects the sound. So to get the best sound, you either have to always use the turntable's built-in preamp (which isn't very good), or remove the preamp board entirely and use an external preamp.
@nightgoat99 The name of the band is not credited anywhere. It just says "Reader's Digest presents the Arthur Murray Dance Album" and is dated 1976. The song is "South of the Border".
@FriedAudio What you see is what you get. Just trace the wires as they come out of the tonearm. White = left channel, red = right channel, and black = ground.
@coffeefish The turntable is still solid and sturdy even without the ballast weight. I think the weight is just there to make the turntable feel more like the Technics SL-1200, which it's trying to be a clone of.
@bmaric2 Yes, you can use an external preamp without needing to remove the built-in one first. Put the Phono/Line switch on the back in the Phono position.
@amanvisebre Check all your wiring (including the four colored wires clipped onto the phono cartridge), make sure the headshell is firmly fastened to the tonearm with the screw-lock, and if your amplifier has a non-polarized AC plug, try reversing its plug in the outlet (unplug it, flip it over, and plug it back in). All of those steps can help reduce or eliminate hum in a turntable setup.
@lineartechbd1600 I could still put the preamp/USB board in an external box if I decide to use it. In fact, that way it could be used with any turntable, not just the A-T. All it needs is a 5-volt DC power supply.
I completed this today on the LP120 that I purchased 2 days ago, what a transformation in sound. This is the second turntable I own, and will be used at a second location. As soon as I put a record on when I first got it the sound was muddy. I used a new LP and played one track on both, on the LP120 highs were lacking. Well after removing the pre-amp and adding the ground wire, the improvement was immediately noticeable. I have however left the metal plate in the bottom.
@sneskid I doubt A-T even designed the USB/preamp board themselves. It's probably just an off-the-shelf module that some other company is making for them.
@Mrtechguy94 Yes, you can use your computer's analog line-level aux input, although unfortunately a lot of modern PCs no longer have this input. In that case, you could use an external USB sound card, which probably would perform better than the USB audio circuitry in that (formerly) built-in preamp, too.
@bovinelife The motor does rattle, especially when you first hit the start button. It's just one of the reminders that this is a much cheaper turntable than the Technics SL-1200 series.
@SatansMama666 The addition of the ground wire is only effective if you remove the preamp/USB board. If you leave the board in, then the ground wire may make the hum worse, because the preamp/USB board is not shielded.
The ATP2 is a DJ cartridge, designed to track at 3 to 5 grams. The AT95E is for typical home listening and tracks much lighter. So, they have two different purposes.
@phantasm1004 Did you actually watch the video? I clearly explained the reason for removing the preamp and demonstrated the positive benefit of doing so. And Audio-Technica only provides a one-year warranty. If you're so concerned about that, then simply wait until one year after you buy it before you do any modifications. I think that is plainly obvious to anyone who is interested in this video!
@FelixTheHouseFreak It's the Audio-Technica ATP-2, which came with the turntable. It's designed to be a "DJ" cartridge, not a "hi-fi" cartridge, so it tracks heavily (3 to 5 grams) and the sound is acceptable, but not great.
@pagani43 The ground wire's only purpose is to reduce hum, and I didn't notice any hum with the built-in preamp installed, so it won't make any difference.
The white wire is the left channel audio, the red wire is the right channel audio, and the black wire is ground. Just follow the path of the wires as they come out of the tonearm and it'll be easy to see how to do it.
Instead of removing the metal bottom plate you can damp it with automotive damping sheets. Or "paint" it with soundcoat. Making the Plinth lighter is not something that improves sound.
I compared the AT-LP120 to my Pioneer PL-990 turntable. The AT-LP120's built-in preamp dulls the sound compared to the Pioneer -- there is less bass and less treble, so the sound is more flat. And if you use the AT-LP120's USB output, the treble is even duller than using its analog line level outputs. It's about a 3 dB difference at 10 kHz -- not that much, but enough to be audible.
I honestly can't tell a significant difference between the two videos. Perhaps it's the AAC compression used on youtube, but I'd still be hesitant to tear it down and remove the boards unless I really thought there was a deficit in the sound. I'm considering buying one of these TT's myself, really like the 78 RPM option as well.
I wouldn't remove the metal plate as, it's part of the design of a t/table such as this. It's called 'mass loading' of the plinth and it neutralizes ( up to a point) the vibrations caused by low frequencies in the listening room. The t/table doesn't have to be next to the speakers to be subjected to such vibrations. Because of their very long wavelength they travel all over the listening room and, a t/table without mass loading is prone to such vibrations, especially one that's made of hard plastic. Many Ultra High End t/tables use the mass loading method to extreme levels, some tipping the scales 30 or 40 kg! ........................ Having said this, I do agree with disconnecting the internal circuitry. It can only be detrimental to the sound if it's not used.
As I mentioned in the video, this turntable was designed for DJs blasting their speakers in close proximity to it. For normal home use at more sensible listening levels then the vibration pickup isn't going to be an issue even with the weight removed.
Sorry about the late reply! Yes, accepted that this t/table is primarily for DJing use ( scratching, reverse mode etc.), however! ... the point here is, the mass loading is absolutely essential in this design. As you probably already know, there's two types of t/tables, the mass loaded ones ( extremely heavy usually placed on very solid and heavy base), and the spring loaded ones that make *loading* irrelevant as they have a 'suspension' system in place to take care of unwanted vibrations. In a home HIFI environment, the speakers are usually in close proximity to the equipment rack. This makes the use of mass loading important if the user wants to avoid feedback from low frequency energy in the room resonating with the plastic plinth of the AT120. The SPL (volume) of the music is relevant but not critical as, even at very low levels, the low frequency energy in the listening room is ever present, causing surfaces to vibrate in unison! ...and, as we try to make this t/table as close to an ''audiophile'' deck, every little bit helps. Mass loading is a big step in that direction!
I'm pretty sure 'mass loading' with this model is mostly just a side-effect of adding heft to a cheap plastic shell with a metal plate to help with the illusion of quality compared to the turntable it is cloning. Remember, this is a cheap USB turntable that looks quite a but like a Technics but does not have the same quality of motor, or platter, or tonearm, or...anything. But it does have a USB preamp that many people watch tutorials like this one to help with removal... I owned one as a first turntable, and at $299 there are better options. What VWestlife did here was greatly improve the sound by eliminating the (high frequency filtering) pre-amp board. And for anyone hating on the removal of a jagged peice of mystery metal, just ask a Rega fanatic how important mass loading is. Turns out some of the best reviewed turntables in the world are really, really light. There have always been different schools of thought on mass vs. stiffness, etc. It's easy to pick on a stranger in a video, but it takes discipline and maturity to do research and appreciate other people's choices.
When using phono output, you have to use phono input. When using preamp output you have to use line input. Theoretically should be the same exact result, in practice it depends on the quality of the preamp board on the unit vs. the one on the mixer. As this video shows, the phono output it's not direct tonearm output but passes thru capacitors, that could alter the signal. And your "cleaner" line input means that circuitry is eating part of the signal (very high and low freqs).
There are tutorial videos on how to set up and balance a tonearm if you need help. I have not tried the AT95E cartridge that the AT-LP120 comes with now, but other people have said it sounds very good.
@TR0jAX My review video on the AT-LP120 has been set to private due to a retailer using it on their web site to help sell the product, without asking my permission.
@FriedAudio Please watch the video again. I show you exactly how the wiring is arranged and where I cut and spliced the wires. If you open up your own AT-LP120, it should be very easy to follow along.
@chrisdelapena1123 It is certainly possible to remove the built-in pre-amp, but try it first to hear if it sounds OK to you. I've had Sony and Pioneer turntables based on the same chassis as the AT-LP60, and their built-in pre-amp sounds excellent, so I have no reason to want to remove it.
I've owned the AT-LP120 USB for about three months and noticed two problems affecting sound quality. One is the headshell doesn't always seat correctly on the tonearm resulting in either complete loss of sound in one channel or noise pickup from the amp in one channel, usually the same channel that will not receive sound. On Amazon feedback most say it's the left channel on this one it happened to be the right. Second is the bottleneck at the analog-to-digital converter (ADC). Prior to removing the USB the right channel didn't sound like it was receiving full frequency but after removing the USB it really opened up and sound equaled out at both speakers resulting in what sounds like a 50% increase in clarity and volume. With more power going to the speakers equally it's like having a different system. After the newness wore off I was willing to take the risk of removing the USB to improve sound quality and now I'm really glad I did, it makes a huge difference, thanks for the video. Another improvement was replacing the stock cartridge with the AT120Eb.
Just successfully did the modification. Definitely a drastic improvement in sound quality, especially in the high end. Thanks for posting! I will say that I was very nervous connecting the ground wire from the cartridge to the ground wire on the output cable. Your video doesn't specifically go into detail how that is connected. I connected the cartridge ground to both the red and white insulation wire with success. I'm not sure if that is what you did.
Thanx for mentioning what the problem involves just using line out mode . Broke it down very nice for me . Involves Treble response ...👍 You earned a sub 😊
@greg20152015 It is best to provide a direct of a connection to the phono cartridge as possible, so I would rather remove the preamp/USB board entirely, than try to modify it.
There is no sonic benefit. I just wanted to make it lighter. AT put the weight there to make it heavier, to feel more like the Technics SL-1200 series turntables which it is trying to imitate. The AT is still rather sensitive to vibrations even with the weight installed, because it is cheaply made. You can hear the motor rattle when you start or stop it, and there is always some wow and flutter even with quartz lock engaged. But you pay a lot less than the Technics, so you get a lot less!
@RAC80sFAN The included ATP-2 cartridge is good but not great. There are many better cartridges available, but I can't give you a recommendation because I have not tried any other cartridges yet with this turntable.
The AT-LP120 USB has a terrible rumble. I've been through two of them and they both had the same problem. The issue is the high-torque direct-drive motor. You can actually hear the turntable running from a few feet away with or without a record on the turntable. That same sound is transferred to the playback. The replacement model (AT-LP120X USB) fixes this by using a different motor. The LP120 has been discontinued (and replaced with the LP120X) for this reason.
I have had no issues with the built in pre-amp. I know some people will say not to use it but I have had no problems whatsoever and have been very happy with my AT LP120.
@navalverde12 It's always best to solder the connections. While making this video, the modification was still experimental, so that's why I didn't want to make the wiring permanent until I was sure of the results.
@vwestlife Maybe I can be a little more clear, I'm sorry if I wasn't. I understand the connections shown in the video. My question is about the black ground wire you show that is connected to the green ground wire that you added. The black wire; what part of the turntable is the black wire making contact with? This isn't clearly shown in the video. I'm sorry and I appreciate you taking the time for my question.
@egrewing74 Get a Pioneer PL-990 for around $125 and spend the rest on your favorite LPs. For the price, the Pioneer sounds fantastic and works well. The vinyl snobs will try to convince you otherwise, but unless you need special features like 78 RPM playback or "DJ scratching", you don't need to spend a lot on a turntable to get good sound.
yea i noticed a slight buzz on playback in the phono setting. i dont really use the line in setting. but overall i think that using the right cartridge, stylus can compensate for any inferior sound quality. this thing came with an AT95E which i never used. I replaced them with Stanton 400v3s and then 520v3s. I also bought AT3600 which were ok and durable but produce a real flat sound that requires much equalization on playback .
Good advice thank you for posting. The sound was noticeably better after your modification. I don't think those built in phono preamps on those turntables can compare to the built in ones of the older receivers. Which usually has to do with the capacitor types used.
I'll keep that in mind. I have an external amp but haven't tried it out yet because I have been very happy with the built in one. I also have my tape deck hooked up to the computer line in and can swap the turntable at anytime too
i still cant tell which wires you spliced together from the actual turntable...which ones are they?...do they have specific numbers or codes on the board?
Wow, what beautiful sound you got now out of this deck. I have the same one, and would appreciate it if you would tell me what kind of passive speakers you are now using with it? And what kind of stylist/cartridge? Or maybe you just left the stock 95 E in? Beautiful sound indeed, just what i need!! thanks in advance!!! OH by the way I have a vintage Sansui receiver 661 this should be fine right?
I have, i believe, the previous AT-PL120 to this one(purchased x-mas 07/no usb), but with mine there is a switch to go from "line-out" to "phono out". Assuming you know where the switch is, it's great. If you're not finding it on the back, check under the platter. I just had to remove the slipmat and rotate the platter around 'til I found the switch(toward the rear). Now using a lil $50 pre-amp and much happier with the output.
Wow you weren't kidding about the highs! I don't want to gut the USB though, so do you think I could install a bypass switch of some sort? Recommendations?
I would suggest replacing the metal weight with some form of damping material as per Technics SL1200. Also appears the weight not removed from tonearm before inverting which is important to avoid bearing damage.
@vwestlife Just to see if I got your point: were those capacitors that you mentioned at the beginning of the clip, on the signal path to the "phono" output? What would the difference be with the receiver's phono pre-amp?
Just wanted to share this: I swapped the cartridge today on my AT-LP120 with a Shure V15 type II...after much listening up and back with the Original ATP-2 cartridge...I was surprised to find out that the ORIGINAL cartridge sounds better! The ATP-2 had better Stereo seperation and presence...surprise surprise! I was pretty shocked. I was thinking of buying a Shure M97xe...think I'll hold off on it now.
Thank you so much for this informative video; I've been trying to get better sound quality out of my AT-LP120-USB ever since I bought it last year, and I've tried both the included AT95E cartridge and the upgrade AT440MLa cartridge, neither of which sound as good as I have experienced from Audio Technica cartridges in the past on older turntables; I will definitely be performing this "upgrade" on my turntable!
A person may consider Dynamat on the metal plate and fit into the plastic plinth for a little more overall damping. I was very surprised at the ring from the metal weight! Even automotive undercoating would help that issue. Note that since this review was done, the cartridge has been switched from the DJ model to a low cost entry model. When I had one of these, I mounted another Audio Technica cartridge in another headshell and kept the DJ cartridge unused.
All pelople have problem with anti skating settings my turnable it's brand new but anti skating do not work in set to 7 the niddle go to center very slow but in set to 0 go so fast what is your experience?
I really want to do this, but still not sure which wires to splice and where to add the ground wire(have no experience and knowledge/first timer)? Really wish you taped your whole process of handling the wires.
I'm starting to wonder if the original 70s Technics have the same metal plate, they sure are heavy. As for the preamp board, the switch should have bypassed the entire board, but there is likely a reason why the design turned out that way, likely cost. I could never understand putting USB on everything, the ADC on an average soundcard is likely better. Is the target light a LED on these tables? I know retrofitting a white LED is common on the SL-1200 because that bulb likes to burn out a lot.
Nice vid. I did a preamp bypass on my Stanton ST-150 and it improved the hum issue quite a bit. I'm surprised how much electronics are in this LP120. Most direct drives I've seen are a lot simpler.
Would you chose that cartridge over the upgraded Cartridge that now comes with the atlp120? In other words. What do you recommend? I own the ATLP120. But I had the shure m97xe but I broke the needle. Just wondering If I should stick with the stock cartridge or buy a another shure cartridge. I actually like the way yours sounds on the video.
I am wondering if you can help with your mastery of this turntable. My problem is that I am getting some quite subtle rattling from the direct drive motor. It's brand new and when the lid is down it quiets it slightly. If I am playing quiet music at a low volume I can definitely hear the machine whirring away. Is this normal>? and thank you for your more in depth audiophile/infiltration of the unit? It's just hard to ascertain what is an 'acceptable' amount of drive noise.
@vwestlife Gotcha, the SMT capacitors are putting a load on the signal of the cartridge. I just ordered one of these turntables and will be doing this mod. It looks like the best way is to solder the tonarm output directly to the "loop around board" as you call it? Or have you tried simply pulling the caps off of preamp board? Thanks for your help btw:)
It is not a modification to remove the bottom metal plate. It is not only speakers that makes vibrations. Some turntables are constructed heavy, for better low end sound, and i think the people at AT tested out with measurement equipment, what was best for the sound, when they put the metalplate in the bottom.
There is a less destructive way to modify this turntable. At the "loop around" board just unsolder the factory RCA cables and install your own. That way you can leave the preamp board more or less connected and in place, just in case you want to put the turntable back into original configuration. Edit: the large piece of metal in the base not only adds mass to dampen vibrations, it also serves as a shield against electrical or rf interference.
Is there a specific tutorial video on this method?
Not that I am aware of. I have extensive electronics background so i chose to just unsolder all of the unnecessary wires and rerouted, bypassing the preamp. That way, if i decide to get rid of it I can put all of the wires back where they belong.
+billyboi57
I second that. That is exactly what i did. And don't remove the bottom plate.
+mrmarzo
There are other videos on here that describe it. Search for "AT-PL120 mod" and you'll find a few versions
billyboi57 Would using a 2Pole:4throw switch to switch between direct rca and preamp board work ?
@AndrewPoulain2007 It makes sure the turntable and receiver are at the same ground level, to prevent hum from getting into the audio.
Some LPs develop a static charge, especially those that are stored in a plastic sleeve, instead of a normal paper sleeve, and also when played on a turntable with a plastic platter. There are anti-static sprays available to help reduce this.
@giammyzanna If you notice hum in the audio, adding a ground wire should eliminate it. Follow the wires coming out of the tonearm, and you'll probably see the green and blue wires joined together at some point. This is the ground, and you can add a wire attached from that point to your receiver's phono ground terminal.
@JoaoLemmos A pre-amp is self-explanatory: it is a PRE-amp, therefore it goes before your main amplifier.
Excellent video, and I must say that after you bypassed the USB board, I noticed a big difference in the high end than the last video when you played the same record. Thanks for such an informative video.
For others attempting this, at 2:50, it would be a lot easier to use the tone arm lock, and turn it over on its lid. The presenter doesn't seem to like the idea of the lid. He must like dusting...
@grod75 Even with the built-in preamp switched off, so you can use an external preamp, the audio signal still runs through several small capacitors. Phono cartridges are designed with a certain capacitance rating, and when you add more capacitance between it and the preamp, it negatively affects the sound. So to get the best sound, you either have to always use the turntable's built-in preamp (which isn't very good), or remove the preamp board entirely and use an external preamp.
@nightgoat99 The name of the band is not credited anywhere. It just says "Reader's Digest presents the Arthur Murray Dance Album" and is dated 1976. The song is "South of the Border".
Which cartridge is that one?
@FriedAudio What you see is what you get. Just trace the wires as they come out of the tonearm. White = left channel, red = right channel, and black = ground.
@jominguex PL120 (older model) is analog only. LP120 (newer model) has USB output as well.
@coffeefish The turntable is still solid and sturdy even without the ballast weight. I think the weight is just there to make the turntable feel more like the Technics SL-1200, which it's trying to be a clone of.
@bmaric2 Yes, you can use an external preamp without needing to remove the built-in one first. Put the Phono/Line switch on the back in the Phono position.
The newer AT-LP120s now do the LINE/PHONO switch bypass correctly so no need to remove the turntable's built-in pre-amp.
@amanvisebre Check all your wiring (including the four colored wires clipped onto the phono cartridge), make sure the headshell is firmly fastened to the tonearm with the screw-lock, and if your amplifier has a non-polarized AC plug, try reversing its plug in the outlet (unplug it, flip it over, and plug it back in). All of those steps can help reduce or eliminate hum in a turntable setup.
Yes, it definitely sounds more dynamic & more open with the modifications....good job! Keep up the great work, very informative!
@somuchface Audio-Technica now sells the AT-LP120 turntable with the AT95E cartridge, so I guess that would be their own recommended upgrade for it.
@ugarmada I don't know. If you bought it new, it should still be under warranty if you want Audio-Technica to fix or replace it for you.
@lineartechbd1600 I could still put the preamp/USB board in an external box if I decide to use it. In fact, that way it could be used with any turntable, not just the A-T. All it needs is a 5-volt DC power supply.
@NJRoadfan The target light is a regular light bulb.
I completed this today on the LP120 that I purchased 2 days ago, what a transformation in sound. This is the second turntable I own, and will be used at a second location. As soon as I put a record on when I first got it the sound was muddy. I used a new LP and played one track on both, on the LP120 highs were lacking. Well after removing the pre-amp and adding the ground wire, the improvement was immediately noticeable.
I have however left the metal plate in the bottom.
@georgestantontime It has no auto-shutoff. The platter will keep spinning until you hit the stop button or turn off the power.
@TwinMillMC The black wire is the circuit ground.
@sneskid I doubt A-T even designed the USB/preamp board themselves. It's probably just an off-the-shelf module that some other company is making for them.
@Mrtechguy94 Yes, you can use your computer's analog line-level aux input, although unfortunately a lot of modern PCs no longer have this input. In that case, you could use an external USB sound card, which probably would perform better than the USB audio circuitry in that (formerly) built-in preamp, too.
White is left channel, red is right channel, and black is ground. Just trace it out from the tonearm to the preamp/USB board.
@bovinelife The motor does rattle, especially when you first hit the start button. It's just one of the reminders that this is a much cheaper turntable than the Technics SL-1200 series.
Make sure the cartridge is firmly connected to its wires. It is possible that the cartridge itself has been damaged, if you haven't replaced it yet.
@SatansMama666 The addition of the ground wire is only effective if you remove the preamp/USB board. If you leave the board in, then the ground wire may make the hum worse, because the preamp/USB board is not shielded.
Removing the preamp I totaly get but removing the metal weight, you lost me there!
The ATP2 is a DJ cartridge, designed to track at 3 to 5 grams. The AT95E is for typical home listening and tracks much lighter. So, they have two different purposes.
@phantasm1004 Did you actually watch the video? I clearly explained the reason for removing the preamp and demonstrated the positive benefit of doing so. And Audio-Technica only provides a one-year warranty. If you're so concerned about that, then simply wait until one year after you buy it before you do any modifications. I think that is plainly obvious to anyone who is interested in this video!
@FelixTheHouseFreak It's the Audio-Technica ATP-2, which came with the turntable. It's designed to be a "DJ" cartridge, not a "hi-fi" cartridge, so it tracks heavily (3 to 5 grams) and the sound is acceptable, but not great.
@pagani43 The ground wire's only purpose is to reduce hum, and I didn't notice any hum with the built-in preamp installed, so it won't make any difference.
The white wire is the left channel audio, the red wire is the right channel audio, and the black wire is ground. Just follow the path of the wires as they come out of the tonearm and it'll be easy to see how to do it.
Instead of removing the metal bottom plate you can damp it with automotive damping sheets. Or "paint" it with soundcoat. Making the Plinth lighter is not something that improves sound.
I compared the AT-LP120 to my Pioneer PL-990 turntable. The AT-LP120's built-in preamp dulls the sound compared to the Pioneer -- there is less bass and less treble, so the sound is more flat. And if you use the AT-LP120's USB output, the treble is even duller than using its analog line level outputs. It's about a 3 dB difference at 10 kHz -- not that much, but enough to be audible.
I honestly can't tell a significant difference between the two videos. Perhaps it's the AAC compression used on youtube, but I'd still be hesitant to tear it down and remove the boards unless I really thought there was a deficit in the sound. I'm considering buying one of these TT's myself, really like the 78 RPM option as well.
I wouldn't remove the metal plate as, it's part of the design of a t/table such as this. It's called 'mass loading' of the plinth and it neutralizes ( up to a point) the vibrations caused by low frequencies in the listening room.
The t/table doesn't have to be next to the speakers to be subjected to such vibrations. Because of their very long wavelength they travel all over the listening room and, a t/table without mass loading is prone to such vibrations, especially one that's made of hard plastic.
Many Ultra High End t/tables use the mass loading method to extreme levels, some tipping the scales 30 or 40 kg!
........................
Having said this, I do agree with disconnecting the internal circuitry. It can only be detrimental to the sound if it's not used.
As I mentioned in the video, this turntable was designed for DJs blasting their speakers in close proximity to it. For normal home use at more sensible listening levels then the vibration pickup isn't going to be an issue even with the weight removed.
Sorry about the late reply!
Yes, accepted that this t/table is primarily for DJing use ( scratching, reverse mode etc.), however! ... the point here is, the mass loading is absolutely essential in this design.
As you probably already know, there's two types of t/tables, the mass loaded ones ( extremely heavy usually placed on very solid and heavy base), and the spring loaded ones that make *loading* irrelevant as they have a 'suspension' system in place to take care of unwanted vibrations.
In a home HIFI environment, the speakers are usually in close proximity to the equipment rack. This makes the use of mass loading important if the user wants to avoid feedback from low frequency energy in the room resonating with the plastic plinth of the AT120. The SPL (volume) of the music is relevant but not critical as, even at very low levels, the low frequency energy in the listening room is ever present, causing surfaces to vibrate in unison!
...and, as we try to make this t/table as close to an ''audiophile'' deck, every little bit helps. Mass loading is a big step in that direction!
I'm pretty sure 'mass loading' with this model is mostly just a side-effect of adding heft to a cheap plastic shell with a metal plate to help with the illusion of quality compared to the turntable it is cloning. Remember, this is a cheap USB turntable that looks quite a but like a Technics but does not have the same quality of motor, or platter, or tonearm, or...anything. But it does have a USB preamp that many people watch tutorials like this one to help with removal... I owned one as a first turntable, and at $299 there are better options. What VWestlife did here was greatly improve the sound by eliminating the (high frequency filtering) pre-amp board.
And for anyone hating on the removal of a jagged peice of mystery metal, just ask a Rega fanatic how important mass loading is. Turns out some of the best reviewed turntables in the world are really, really light. There have always been different schools of thought on mass vs. stiffness, etc.
It's easy to pick on a stranger in a video, but it takes discipline and maturity to do research and appreciate other people's choices.
You forget a thing. dance. when people listen to music they don't sit still
love it! my family runs an Arthur Murray Studio! Love that record! brings back the memories!
When using phono output, you have to use phono input. When using preamp output you have to use line input. Theoretically should be the same exact result, in practice it depends on the quality of the preamp board on the unit vs. the one on the mixer. As this video shows, the phono output it's not direct tonearm output but passes thru capacitors, that could alter the signal. And your "cleaner" line input means that circuitry is eating part of the signal (very high and low freqs).
@Westtoledoguy I don't think the band is identified on the LP. It's just whatever studio band Arthur Murray hired to do the album.
There are tutorial videos on how to set up and balance a tonearm if you need help. I have not tried the AT95E cartridge that the AT-LP120 comes with now, but other people have said it sounds very good.
@TR0jAX My review video on the AT-LP120 has been set to private due to a retailer using it on their web site to help sell the product, without asking my permission.
Best thing about those videos is that no before/after audio sample is shown until the very end
@FriedAudio Please watch the video again. I show you exactly how the wiring is arranged and where I cut and spliced the wires. If you open up your own AT-LP120, it should be very easy to follow along.
@chrisdelapena1123 It is certainly possible to remove the built-in pre-amp, but try it first to hear if it sounds OK to you. I've had Sony and Pioneer turntables based on the same chassis as the AT-LP60, and their built-in pre-amp sounds excellent, so I have no reason to want to remove it.
You could certainly wire up a switch, if there is enough room inside. The preamp is necessary to have the USB output.
I've owned the AT-LP120 USB for about three months and noticed two problems affecting sound quality. One is the headshell doesn't always seat correctly on the tonearm resulting in either complete loss of sound in one channel or noise pickup from the amp in one channel, usually the same channel that will not receive sound. On Amazon feedback most say it's the left channel on this one it happened to be the right. Second is the bottleneck at the analog-to-digital converter (ADC). Prior to removing the USB the right channel didn't sound like it was receiving full frequency but after removing the USB it really opened up and sound equaled out at both speakers resulting in what sounds like a 50% increase in clarity and volume. With more power going to the speakers equally it's like having a different system.
After the newness wore off I was willing to take the risk of removing the USB to improve sound quality and now I'm really glad I did, it makes a huge difference, thanks for the video. Another improvement was replacing the stock cartridge with the AT120Eb.
Just successfully did the modification. Definitely a drastic improvement in sound quality, especially in the high end. Thanks for posting!
I will say that I was very nervous connecting the ground wire from the cartridge to the ground wire on the output cable. Your video doesn't specifically go into detail how that is connected. I connected the cartridge ground to both the red and white insulation wire with success. I'm not sure if that is what you did.
Thanx for mentioning what the problem involves just using line out mode . Broke it down very nice for me . Involves Treble response ...👍 You earned a sub 😊
@greg20152015 It is best to provide a direct of a connection to the phono cartridge as possible, so I would rather remove the preamp/USB board entirely, than try to modify it.
@machina37 The tonearm itself is metal, but the rest of the parts look mostly like plastic.
There is no sonic benefit. I just wanted to make it lighter. AT put the weight there to make it heavier, to feel more like the Technics SL-1200 series turntables which it is trying to imitate. The AT is still rather sensitive to vibrations even with the weight installed, because it is cheaply made. You can hear the motor rattle when you start or stop it, and there is always some wow and flutter even with quartz lock engaged. But you pay a lot less than the Technics, so you get a lot less!
way better now clean and sharp sound nice sound cool man
@RAC80sFAN The included ATP-2 cartridge is good but not great. There are many better cartridges available, but I can't give you a recommendation because I have not tried any other cartridges yet with this turntable.
@wudsiba Yes, you can add the ground wire, however I did not notice any need for it while I was using the built-in pre-amp.
The AT-LP120 USB has a terrible rumble. I've been through two of them and they both had the same problem. The issue is the high-torque direct-drive motor. You can actually hear the turntable running from a few feet away with or without a record on the turntable. That same sound is transferred to the playback. The replacement model (AT-LP120X USB) fixes this by using a different motor. The LP120 has been discontinued (and replaced with the LP120X) for this reason.
Each has a different purpose, as I already explained. The ATP2 is more rugged while the AT95E is more hi-fi.
I have had no issues with the built in pre-amp. I know some people will say not to use it but I have had no problems whatsoever and have been very happy with my AT LP120.
@TwinMillMC The connections are exactly as I show it in the video. I can't explain it any better than what you see.
Is that Madonna holiday in the background
@navalverde12 It's always best to solder the connections. While making this video, the modification was still experimental, so that's why I didn't want to make the wiring permanent until I was sure of the results.
@vwestlife Maybe I can be a little more clear, I'm sorry if I wasn't. I understand the connections shown in the video. My question is about the black ground wire you show that is connected to the green ground wire that you added. The black wire; what part of the turntable is the black wire making contact with? This isn't clearly shown in the video. I'm sorry and I appreciate you taking the time for my question.
THAT'S IT! Thank you! I bought an external pre amp and still got that f*ing hummmmmmmmmm. I will take her apart tonight and add that ground asap!
Great video! Man, I really wish they would press more copies of these great albums
@egrewing74 Get a Pioneer PL-990 for around $125 and spend the rest on your favorite LPs. For the price, the Pioneer sounds fantastic and works well. The vinyl snobs will try to convince you otherwise, but unless you need special features like 78 RPM playback or "DJ scratching", you don't need to spend a lot on a turntable to get good sound.
yea i noticed a slight buzz on playback in the phono setting. i dont really use the line in setting. but overall i think that using the right cartridge, stylus can compensate for any inferior sound quality. this thing came with an AT95E which i never used. I replaced them with Stanton 400v3s and then 520v3s. I also bought AT3600 which were ok and durable but produce a real flat sound that requires much equalization on playback .
Good advice thank you for posting. The sound was noticeably better after your modification. I don't think those built in phono preamps on those turntables can compare to the built in ones of the older receivers. Which usually has to do with the capacitor types used.
I'll keep that in mind. I have an external amp but haven't tried it out yet because I have been very happy with the built in one. I also have my tape deck hooked up to the computer line in and can swap the turntable at anytime too
i still cant tell which wires you spliced together from the actual turntable...which ones are they?...do they have specific numbers or codes on the board?
The metal in the base also helps remove static from the electronics
Wow, what beautiful sound you got now out of this deck. I have the same one, and would appreciate it if you would tell me what kind of passive speakers you are now using with it? And what kind of stylist/cartridge? Or maybe you just left the stock 95 E in? Beautiful sound indeed, just what i need!! thanks in advance!!! OH by the way I have a vintage Sansui receiver 661 this should be fine right?
I did not record any more than this. Taking apart the case was not difficult.
I have, i believe, the previous AT-PL120 to this one(purchased x-mas 07/no usb), but with mine there is a switch to go from "line-out" to "phono out". Assuming you know where the switch is, it's great. If you're not finding it on the back, check under the platter. I just had to remove the slipmat and rotate the platter around 'til I found the switch(toward the rear). Now using a lil $50 pre-amp and much happier with the output.
Wow you weren't kidding about the highs! I don't want to gut the USB though, so do you think I could install a bypass switch of some sort? Recommendations?
I would suggest replacing the metal weight with some form of damping material as per Technics SL1200. Also appears the weight not removed from tonearm before inverting which is important to avoid bearing damage.
sounds crystal clear
The USB output sounds OK... not audiophile quality, but for transferring the music to your computer, it's good enough.
@vwestlife
Just to see if I got your point: were those capacitors that you mentioned at the beginning of the clip, on the signal path to the "phono" output? What would the difference be with the receiver's phono pre-amp?
Just wanted to share this: I swapped the cartridge today on my AT-LP120 with a Shure V15 type II...after much listening up and back with the Original ATP-2 cartridge...I was surprised to find out that the ORIGINAL cartridge sounds better! The ATP-2 had better Stereo seperation and presence...surprise surprise! I was pretty shocked. I was thinking of buying a Shure M97xe...think I'll hold off on it now.
Thank you so much for this informative video; I've been trying to get better sound quality out of my AT-LP120-USB ever since I bought it last year, and I've tried both the included AT95E cartridge and the upgrade AT440MLa cartridge, neither of which sound as good as I have experienced from Audio Technica cartridges in the past on older turntables; I will definitely be performing this "upgrade" on my turntable!
@NJRoadfan My 70s technics doesnt have that metal plate, it just has a very very thick rubber cover on the bottom.
SOUNDS GOOD TO ME, AND THE TURNTABLE LOOKS GREAT.
Any gauge will work.
You should use OFC (oxygen free copper) cables to improve sound.
A person may consider Dynamat on the metal plate and fit into the plastic plinth for a little more overall damping. I was very surprised at the ring from the metal weight! Even automotive undercoating would help that issue.
Note that since this review was done, the cartridge has been switched from the DJ model to a low cost entry model. When I had one of these, I mounted another Audio Technica cartridge in another headshell and kept the DJ cartridge unused.
Cool video... maybe you should also compare with the heavy plate installed... the sound might be better?
All pelople have problem with anti skating settings my turnable it's brand new but anti skating do not work in set to 7 the niddle go to center very slow but in set to 0 go so fast what is your experience?
The anti-skating should be set to the same value as the tracking force.
I really want to do this, but still not sure which wires to splice and where to add the ground wire(have no experience and knowledge/first timer)? Really wish you taped your whole process of handling the wires.
I'm starting to wonder if the original 70s Technics have the same metal plate, they sure are heavy. As for the preamp board, the switch should have bypassed the entire board, but there is likely a reason why the design turned out that way, likely cost. I could never understand putting USB on everything, the ADC on an average soundcard is likely better. Is the target light a LED on these tables? I know retrofitting a white LED is common on the SL-1200 because that bulb likes to burn out a lot.
Nice vid. I did a preamp bypass on my Stanton ST-150 and it improved the hum issue quite a bit. I'm surprised how much electronics are in this LP120. Most direct drives I've seen are a lot simpler.
I miss your turntable videos
Would you chose that cartridge over the upgraded Cartridge that now comes with the atlp120? In other words. What do you recommend? I own the ATLP120. But I had the shure m97xe but I broke the needle. Just wondering If I should stick with the stock cartridge or buy a another shure cartridge. I actually like the way yours sounds on the video.
I am wondering if you can help with your mastery of this turntable. My problem is that I am getting some quite subtle rattling from the direct drive motor. It's brand new and when the lid is down it quiets it slightly. If I am playing quiet music at a low volume I can definitely hear the machine whirring away. Is this normal>? and thank you for your more in depth audiophile/infiltration of the unit? It's just hard to ascertain what is an 'acceptable' amount of drive noise.
That plate must do more, it might be the "spine" of the table. The thing will resist flexing (when lifted) or resonance from the motion of the motor.
@vwestlife Gotcha, the SMT capacitors are putting a load on the signal of the cartridge. I just ordered one of these turntables and will be doing this mod. It looks like the best way is to solder the tonarm output directly to the "loop around board" as you call it? Or have you tried simply pulling the caps off of preamp board? Thanks for your help btw:)
@kinotakamura I can. but I can use pre 1200 belt drives too..depends on your skill level and adaptability.
Any kind of wire will work.
@CenaTv2 I'm sure doing a little research online can answer all your questions. ;-)