Personally I don't count a release to PTU as a release. Only Live release should be counted. Saying they've launched 4.0 before the end of the year because Evocati has it is BS. I don't see 4.0 being on Live until mid 2025. And I'm being optimistic saying that.
I disagree. If it is only Evocati, then yes, I agree, that doesn't count. But if it is an open PTU where everyone can try it, then I consider it "close enough".
@doctorno3912 0 seconds ago Must have been one of those pesky roadmap watches cig like to throwshade at and accuse spreading fomo. Did you enjoy your deleted by Nighteider-CIG?
@@doctorno3912 it began by Deleted by cuckRider but ended up by account being suspended from participating in Spectrum... 2 more days until I'm cleared and get back to posting some funny gifs lol
No one was shocked. People are upset because they made such a big deal about it being "for real this time." Announcing it for the first half of the year, saying multiple times that they were confident in the timeline, saying they'd have multiple server meshing play tests, having a playable preview at CitCon, going on and on about how people coming over from Sq42 would speed up development, saying multiple times that 2024 would be a "watershed year for the project." It wasn't the same "we're on the road to 4.0, it's just around the corner" vagueness. They intentionally set expectations high and threw the gauntlet down in a big and explicit way, then utterly failed to deliver. Now they're using the same tired excuses of "well we didn't *proommmiiissseeee* anything, development is hard" and like, that's frustrating enough after waiting for 6 years, but to fall back on the same gaslighting after being so insistent that "no no no, this time is different" has many in the community rightfully upset.
@@tallperson117 its been especially frustrating watching them attempt to implement instanced hangars. it really makes them seem like they have no idea what they're doing.
Oh CIG is in no shortage of confidence alright, it's the honesty and respect towards their community that they pledged to uphold in the early days which is severely lacking these days. Remember when it was said that every dollar pledged would go straight into the development of the game? Yeah well, look at their needlessly massive Manchester office, how they forcibly relocated loads of people there and how they splurged on all that merch being brandished around that place, lifesize statues of suits, spaceship themed areas, overly expensive furniture.....something which you might expect from an established studio with successfull released games in their portfolio, but not from a company like them who are yet to release a single finished project.
@@avon_c6199 So they splurged on their main office that houses 1000 developers. What is even your point? Would you rather have Sony force No Mans Sky release so you can bitch about the poor release quality. Love reading comments of people that never worked in developement.
@@TheEbonyEngineer "Love reading comments of people that never worked in developement." And YOU do? Go ahead, educate me on development! What my point is? My effin point is that CIG wastes backer funds on things not tied to development, DESPITE their original promise of putting every dollar received by backers into development, and that all before they have even released anything remotely finished to the general public. Squander54 is still MIA and StarCitizen is still in development limbo and nowhere near its first RC.
Uninstalling is the best option, It's a great concept but it's also a pipe dream, The development relies on ship sales which they are putting most of their efforts into and once those slow or dry up, that will be the end of this dream.
To be fair, it’s how they fund. Unless they sell equity to which the pipe dream never happens as NO publisher will ever risk trying this. If anything this allows for testing gaming theories for the future. The first through the wall is always the bloodiest. Gamers, not publishers, YOU and other gamers are allowing such a historical attempt at gaming on such a scope. If it fails, others will use this and learn for the eventual next attempt.
@@larrymitchell6470 I understand that but when do consumers say enough is enough? They've raised over $700 million and honestly they have very little to show for it. I've seen indie developers do more on a fraction of a budget. I understand they're trying to develop a lot of new tech but that should have been done prior to creating a game not putting the cart before the horse.
@@larrymitchell6470 Imho yuo are looking at it backwards. Never was it said when Star Citizen was kickstarted , and even later when the scope was increased, that they would need milions in ship sales to finish the game. Wich also make makes that game that supposedly aims to be this idealistic best of the best dream, well, lets no mince words, pay-to-win. And yet here were years later. Its monumentaly mismanaged. I loved Wing Commander/Privateer games, even Star Lancer, but reading on their histories its a recuring scheme that Chris Roberts is a feture creep and a dreamer, he needs someone to put a brake on him, someone connected to reality. In SC Chris is the boss , so there is no one that can do that.
I do hop in from time to time and I always end up uninstalling after an hour or two, mainly because if the trams are not broken (and they are everytime they patch), the ships don't spawn. When they spawn, they explode. When they don't explode, you noclip and die. When you don't noclip, the server dies.
It’s not even just the delays. The content they make is absolutely BORING or ANNOYING. They certainly know how to make cool ships. Gameplay? LOL CIG has no clue at all. I mean AT ALL.
I've tried hard since March of 2014 to stay positive. I stepped away for a while after the first couple of years and came back during the coof. I've been playing steadily since then. And while, there have indeed been changes, it has been glacial. If someone were to do a chart of the rate of progress, versus all the currently "promised' features, I'm afraid we'd be talking decades before they all were added. And, as you said, the biggest problems is that the game and all the backend code required to run all these functions, is stretched to the breaking point. LEt's say.. and I do mean hypothetically (to paraphrase John C. McGinnley from the Office) that server meshing works as intended, what then? There is more features on the road map than we currently have features, to my mind. The very idea that there are going to be dozens of players doing engineering in a major space battle (not just the two ships on AC), when they can't get Blockade Runner or Xenothreat to run smoothly on a PTU is frankly laughable. And if Squadron 42 isn't the Mass Effect of this decade, CIG is never going to capture the audience they need for funding. How many more ships can you add to the queue, when you have 40 already, and many more than need reworks. Selling ships is going to be a game of diminishing returns soon. Only so many whales are going to spend money on capital ships. And all those whales think that there will be some magic AI in the future that will let them run their ships solo. I think rough skies are ahead.
@@FreebirthBoccara There is no "drama bait" in simply stating positions on factual reality. If some people can't help turning into immature Redditors and getting involved in ad-hominem mudslinging, that is on them.
Devs: woah woah woah this isn't a playable game yet, why are we acting so entitled? Marketing team: "PLAYABLE NOW! PLAY IT! COME OOOON!" Chris and his cronies + the marketing team are arguably THE problem of the damn tech demo
I joined in December of 2012 on the kick starter, when we still had nothing in 2017, I refunded, I was one of those ppl that jumped in BIG over 10k. CR is a lair and scam artist. yet ppl have given him over $700million bucks. It boggles the mind. Everyone need to refund and or take him to court.
My frustration comes from broken features that have been just around the corner for years, and the pushing of completed new ships while there is already sold ships not being completed. YOU SUCK CIG!
@@Memeguppy They do it to raise money for the game. That's how they make money to further development. They count on people buying new ships coming out as a promise to add that ship later on.
Agree with your take here. The key feature we need for game enjoyment currently is much better server performance. I really want more gameplay loops, new areas etc, but if they come at further degradation in server responsiveness, it really affects the perceived long-term viability of the game. I recall seeing the "Fire" ISC episode a few weeks back and thinking, "Man, extra stuff the server has to keep track of and keep in sync between players. I don't know if this is a good idea". I would rather CIG not add things like fire that add flavor at the cost of server performance until the meshing changes deliver what was promised.
Only, it's not at the cost of server performance. They have a separate dedicated team working on meshing/replication layer/etc. So would you rather they stop development on everything else and let those devs idle while the server-side software is finished?
@@Nexovus Yes. I'd rather them wait on server meshing before releasing an update with so much fanfare that you'd think you're going to have a great time before reality quickly hitting you in the face that shit is lagging like fucking crazy, as it has always been with every update. I'm fine not playing the game for some months/year if it means the next update will really perform as a normal game should. 3.23 brought a massive never-seen-before wave of content creators that ended up hating the game more than liking it because all the new content was unplayable. I don't know about you, but I'm very concerned about the reputation of the game just as much as the game itself.
@@mmmaxxx__ So you want the game to take significantly longer to be fully developed... Here's some insight from a programmer (who asked, right? You did) Developing features separate from the server software allows developers to get VALUABLE feedback from the inner workings of their software in unideal environments, while the ideal environment is BEING DEVLEOPED. That way, when the underlying software that relies on the server meshing to work is put in place, it's mostly fleshed out. OR, we could have all those developers sit on their ass and waste the funds that everyone has contributed by buying ships. What you're suggesting is nothing short of stupid.
I don't think you understand that having everyone wait for the like 20 guys working on server meshing isn't good for development. What should all the other people do while they wait? Stop thinking of SC as a game and more like a paid pre-alpha test
@@oddursigurdsson9637 Developing new tech that's never existed before isn't a standard part of video game development (nor is it CHEAP), meaning this situation is a bit different. If it were any other game taking so long, I wouldn't have as much patience. Not to mention the fact that when they finish this networking feat, it's something that can be built into other games to MASSIVELY increase the player capacity for multiplayer games. What they're building here isn't simple or easy to do, if it were, someone else would have done it by now and this wouldn't take so long. Relax, find a hobby to pass the time, complaining isn't one.
I’ve never experienced a game that so over promised and so under delivered. When Disco said they should never be afraid of a new idea, that’s cover for Chris changing things again. Chris has always had an issue with feature creep, as an example look at how many times he’s changed the destruction of ships, or the flight model. I get that he wants it to be the best but other developers are taking his ideas and putting them in games now, when Squadron releases it will likely look like old tech :) As always great positive video :)
I have no idea why a flight model is so hard. Go pick a game with a flight model you like. Give said game to your devs and say, "make it like this". Wait 6 months to a year max and have that flight model coded into your engine.
@@Power5 The original flight model they had back in Arena Commander was the best one they had. Every single flight model update has made it worse and worse.
Good news people. We will be “On the road to Pyro” again this year at citizencon. Only five more years to go till we get to the end of that road. We are all such suckers for their BS.
3.24 shouldn't even count as it's own release, it's just a late delivery of content that was supposed to be in 3.23....HALF A YEAR LATE. It's insane 2024 is going to have a single update when this was supposed to be the year it all changes.
@@violentmnky Paradoxically, it is really becoming the year in which everything changes, the mood of the entire community is changing. I think CIG will notice it when this will affect sales. Angry people don't spend money.
To put it into perspective, even if the development speed, sped up 5x, it will still take 10 years being in Alpha if they stick to all their promised features, and fleshed out game mechanics, jobs, side stuff, etc... At this rate, this game will be out of Alpha in 35+ years... and I'm not lieing or exaggerating. The amount of crap that still has to be done staggering. They've barely scratched the surface in 10 years, and the list has at least 20+ MAJOR mechanics not even remotely in yet. Let alone tier 0...
It sounds so sad that waiting for SC has been the majority of your gaming life. The days of spending a year of real-life time in a single video game like WoW, those were some of my great gaming memories. Good game, great people to play with, good amount of content and variety. Waiting for a game for nearly 12 years since backing in Oct'12 is one of my worst memories. The product is so much less fun than a dozen other space games, the multiplayer part is still so stale and just bad that it would not feel much different without it...
I think this is due to star citizen being unique in we've known about it since it's birth and have been able to watch it grow. The only other game that's close is kingdom come deliverance as it was also a kickstarter game. But I believe it had more dev time behind it before it when to KS unlike SC. They already had a studio up and running SC was just chris and some of the other senior devs and that was it. Most AAA games take 5+ years to make and even some shit ones take even longer. Skull and bones was in development for over 10 years and has like 5 things to do in it. Concord was in development for 8 years and is trash. SQ42 and SC are being made to be the biggest and best ever made. And starting from almost scratch that's hard and takes a long time. Now had SC gone through traditional development we'd have seen a trailer every couple of years and it would be like yeah ok it'll be done whenever and it wouldn't be such an issue. It just seems so grooling now because we've known and seen it this whole time.
exactly, that's pretty much my only beef, it started with flight and we still can park ships nose down on planets and vehicles don't even have progressive throttle
flight model should be easy. Find a game with the flight model you like and buy said game for devs. Have devs fly that and tell them to put that model into the star engine. As for vehicles, we have an absolutely ridiculous physics environment, and being that vehicles need physics to move, that is going to be harder to fake since there are so many different gravities to work with. Easier to fake physics if it is only a single planet. But then again SF did it within a year and their engine is like a decade old as well. The turning in SF is not exactly realistic, but the rover does not bounce around on the ground when you spawn it. Doesnt get launched off planet if an NPC bumps into it.
I told them in Spectrum in 2021 that marketing was going to kill the game .A literal dev called me a doomer; me a backer since 2013 for voicing an obvious worry that marketing's outsized control on the game is actually effecting the game. Nothing is going to change as long as they can continue to sell bs ships they never have to release. They should cancel physical Cit-con's until the game is in a better state, not to mention the UK coming apart at the seams due to free speech violations.
I've been censored by devs as well for pointing out the consequence of certain development priorities, and for explaining how there are just some things that are practically impossible due to technological and financial constraints. I was informed that CIG did not allow the spreading of Fear Uncertainty or Doubt. Well ain't that a kick in the teeth? I wasn't telling anyone that the game was a scam, or that it would fail. I was explaining that if development had taken this long, CIG would have to adapt and find your typical clever game developer ways of rounding off edges and reevaluate some decade old features... And what I got for my trouble was a canned platitude that made CIG sound like it was hawking NFTs on Discord. That probably did more to turn me away from the game than any failure to deliver in many years.
@GameSetPatch yeah, I caught a BS ban from nightrider. That is what made me decide to never spend another dime on the game. I also have told my extended gaming guilds to not buy the game either. That's several hundred people, at least.
@@allicedeethey'll be just his bankrupt if they burn all their players. I'm not going anywhere, I plan to stick around until the game is out but I know a lot of people are not so dead set on that.
I ignore the "were gonna add something new soon!!" Announcements for literally every game, and instead just play it when i feel like it. Ngl SC is a really good game to just play, as long as you make sure you're on a good server. However, i wouldnt recommend investing anything but a starter package, as i have almost every ship earned with aUEC no problem.
I'm not frustrated. I was frustrated 8 years ago. Now I know the score. I think having any kind of expectation of CIG delivering in a timely manner is absolutely insane at this point. Like...have you not been paying attention during the last decade? Even for server meshing, the first target date for that was in 2018. TWENTY EIGHTEEN! And I'm not downplaying the challenge of serving meshing. I absolutely understand why it would take so long. But people, including CR, should have realized that already.
You know why I prefer watching your videos as opposed to other news video creators? You go through the effort of matching your video snippets to your text. When talking about server meshing you show that. Desynch and AI you show that. Even though I have probably seen all this footage somewhere before its nice to have matching script and visuals. Others just recite their text and show something completely irrelevant and its confusing at times.
I know, I know, different teams are doing different things... But CIG seems to fixate too much on the icing on the cake, when the cake isn't done yet! How many disgusting spoonfuls of icing do I have to eat before I get a proper cake?
14 years, for 14 years, tbis game has been in development. GTA 10 years. GTA has announced a full launch in 2025, Star Citizen, we may possibly, kinda, probably not, get Alpha 4.0. GTA has a budget with just over 1.2 billion in development. Star Citizen 854 million, and it's not even close to full launch. I have been around this most of my adult life. Im tired of false promises, im tired of getting my hopes up for nothing. At this point, it may just be time to walk away.
The real development started in 2015 when the CryTek development team moved to CIG in Frankfurt. Don't forget that there is not one, but two games in the works and the main work is Squadron 42, not Star Citizen!
@@juz3r1 yeah, that's not how it works. You don't go off when they moved or decided to get serious about it. You go off the date development of the game starts. Pre development started in 2010 development started 2011. Just because they lost/had their work corrupted in 2012 when they went to Cloud Imperium or moved 2015, or opened new studios it's still development time. It's still 14 years it's still in an unstable Alpha. People say what they want to make themselves feel better but at the end of the day it's a 14 year old project that is no where near complete.
GTA was also built by a massive ESTABLISHED studio and is a tiny project by comparison, the problem is you getting you hopes up, not the timeline that was very obviously overly optimistic
@@stratvids that's true, but 854 million and they don't even have Squadron finished. It's a solo player game. Squadron 42 isn't even in Beta. I could understand the time and budget if Squadron 42 was finished or even almost done but both games are not finished. Heck it's not even an open world game.... so to recap Squadron 42 is a single player game that is not open world and it's not finished. Star Citizen is MMO open world it's not finished. 854 million and 14 years of development time not 1 game has been finished or moved to beta.
@@kennyknapp5531 I got my hopes up when i heard that they employed a whole lot of new people. I thought to myselfe that NOW developement will sure pick up a lot of speed, but sadly it was just another dissapointment. After patches game is more buggy and even more unplayable then before, new / improved gameplay features are more rare then full solar eclipes in real life. I truly can see the potential in this game, but copium aside, with that much funding and employees the game should have progressed miles by now. I can say that i am no longer excited for new FreeFlight events to show this game to my little brother like i have planned, because i know for sure he is just going to be dissapointed like i was. I will not play this game again until non SC creators start posting about that it has actually got good now. SpaceTomato really makes good videos, but i just cant consume more copium from SC creators.
The narrative back in 2016 as to why things were taking time under their 'changed vision' for the game was that they were taking the time to do things right. The assurance we were given by Chris when voting on that change to keep crowdfunding open was that we would get higher quality gameplay, more of it and faster. At no point did CIG say we would get less, buggier and slower, and at no point did they say 'we don't know how to build this foundation, we're winging it and will end up ripping up most of this stuff multiple times'. Here we are 12 years later and nearly a Billion USD spent for neither of the games being anywhere near feature complete, and those early statements from CIG about having 'all of this and more', of it 'not being a pipe dream' and of their being experts who knew what needed doing have been exposed by time to have been lies. At best, well intentioned lies, but still untruths. After this long I care less and less about the excuses and am looking for a reason to respect them again, but the trust is forever gone.
Im 47 lol. I wonder if Chris Roberts himself will not retire before the game is done lol, we are getting on with years. Would be hilarious if the drama continued with another generation, somebody takeing over after Crhis, and our kids/relatives taking our accounts...
Let me see if I can muster up any shock at it being delayed... 😐 Nope. The only thing CIG could shock me with is getting something done on time. (Ship sales don't count, that's the only thing CIG makes sure is running properly.) 😝
@@doctorno3912 I think it was two Christmases ago they pissed everybody off. Nerfing ships big time, the insulting Christmas presents, etc. Then in January they released the hoverquad. I was like this is the perfect time to send CIG the message that we are unhappy! Don't buy it. And it had record sales. 🤷 It was then I realized that this train was full steam ahead and nothing CIG could do to the players would really affect how they run things.
better GPU or CPU won't solve the mess in spagety code that causes d-synch on server... not even better server or connection can solve it... they have to put a work into it... and not wait until AI can make SC
@@rolinthor make it, stupidest thing I heard when talking about a company that has taken in almost a billion dollars. Face it they made what they wanted already LOL
I don't pay attention to the roadmap any more. What gets me is how constantly broken it is. Rather than fixing stuff, they add new stuff on top of broken stuff. Now days, when elevators don't work, and I fall through floors, I usually give up and do something else. It's not worth the time.
It was always a mistake to expect people who could not make an N scale environment remotely stable in a decade for even an hour to develop a stable 10N scale environment ever.
if they haven’t added all of the previously promised features and gameplay loops by the end of 2025 I’ll just sell my account and move on. I’m so sick of waiting for this game.
Biggest red flags for me have always been the marketing hype around patch numbers. Like what does 4.0 even mean? Why do they inject so much emotion into “four point oh”? It’s an update, game will still be a mess
I was trying to land my A2 at Port Tressler yesterday. The doors opened, and then closed. Then no more A2 and I am floating in space. Had to EVA to one of the outside landing pads... The groundbreaking thing will be when things like that stop happening.
"No one has ever run backwards blindfolded around the back of a ford transit van seven times on a thursday so you can't get mad at me that my attempt has taken 34 years!" The star citizen defense. BTW "server meshing" is being done in other games, right now. It aint the unicorn Chris Robert's Wife's Studio supplier makes it out to be.
I really dislike how youtubers, even obsidian ant etc, pretend that store citizen is bringing new things to the industry like for example server meshing
@@jh5kl The type of server meshing they are bringing is absolutely new, and never done before though.. The CURRENT server meshing we have in games is transferring stored data retroactively between servers. What CIG is trying to do, is trade off that information in real time in a split second, and replicating everything in a nanosecond. Such as when we saw them shoot bullets across 3 servers. Nothing like that has ever been done before, and it is extremely advanced in comparison. I'm kind of tired that people like you are pretending like that isn't a big deal. Now whether or not CIG should have gone for that, is wasting money, time, and is utterly incompetent as developers regardless is an entirely different can of worms. If you want my take on that.. yes, yes they are utterly incompetent, wasting time and money, and being lead by incompetent leads, and often use greasy tactics to sell ships by promising big new mechanics right around the corner, so you better buy this ship now! only to pull the rug and say "haha, well unfortunately the big reason we sold this ship, is no longer possible, we'll shelve that for now for another 5 years and nerf the ship into the ground with a bunch of bugs oops!.. but hey look! another new mechanic with a new ship fit for it! pull out your wallets again!"
@@Cramblit Other games do that exact same thing. The New World, for example. Just because Chris Roberts says something doesn't mean it's true. CiG have a financial interest to lie to you. No. I dont want your take on that. Kind of tired of people like you displaying gulliblity and sunk-cost-fallacy while you fanboy for a crap conjob.
@@amalekedomite I didn't fanboy for a crap conjob if you actually read. Seems like you want to stay ignorant and stupid though, as you didn't even care to actually read anything I said (or you would of seen the part where I lay into CIG for being incompetent), or use any critical thinking skills.. And no New World doesn't do it... that's like comparing a company that develops toy rockets, and then looking at Elon Musk like "dude other companies are doing what you're trying to do, why can't you do it!?" They aren't even in the same ballpark of what they're trying to do, despite on the surface, both of them making rockets. The fact you don't understand this, is wild to me. Seems you just want to stay ignorant though.
I'm not gonna hold my breath to anything CIG says any longer. Great explanation, but a lot of us who've been waiting for soooo long it's a little disconcerting to just think this game will actually move beyond all the shit we've put up with the past few years they've been promising 4.0 and server meshing.
Don't know why people are shocked that a release is delayed... I'm more shocked at people being shocked than at the delay. I told everyone in my community that they should not count on 4.0 being released this year.
Communication problemsa re ONE problem, but the biggest problem is the development time. 15-25 years is not feasible. There are customers in their 50's and 60's at the time of purchase who will sadly pass away before 1.0 releases. I nearly died 2 years ago at my work place (still permanent damage). People get through uni, marry, get children and see their children graduate high school in such a dev time. This is too much. Edit: Too much optimism in the video. Also hoping for the next thing after release of another thing is mostly because those things are still foundational basic things, not gimmicks. It is what help us not getting even more depressed.
My biggest frustration is the constant new ships without finishing the old ones. I get that new ship fund the game. But If you just get to 1.0 MVP you can release ships later with still charging a monthly fee. If 4.0 get pushed to 2025 and there is no SQ42 release date announcement at CitCon, then this game is in real trouble. Which is sad, because I have invested alot and I want this game to come out!
Imho they should never have needed ship funding. Never was it said in the begining/kickstarter that they would need constant influx of milions of dollars.
@@firestarter000001 so you just want Starfield. I don't see how we both get the game we want and also don't have ship sales. I have zero interest in what the original Kickstarter was, as the scope and scale of that game was much smaller, far less interesting, and far less appealing than what we are working towards now. CIG is doing phenomenal work, and I'll be here for it for the next thirty or so years
@@Venhili Not Starfield, but a much more alive, varied Elite Dangerous with Wing Commander feel would be great for me. The thing is its a pattern what they do, and imho it will never stop. The feature creep is beyond insane. And to finish a project, even a very ambitious one (or maybe especially) you need look at it realistcly at some point and cut stuff. Judging by what i see/hear i dont think they will be ready to realease Sc in 10 years time.
Every year it is the same cycle. Post Citizencon and Q4 : Hype and laughing at the "haters" because all the new features that will be released Q1 of the next year : Some features are released, first signs of delays and new ships and events Q2 : More delays and first signs of copium. Q3 : silence on all fronts and the "waits for Citizencom" start to appear. People start to ask questions, lose hope again, etc .. Citizencon : New promises, trailers, freatures, and the hype is built up again Rince and repeat
I'm not frustrated. I'm just disappointed in this year. All they do is talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk even more with basically nothing to deliver. Half (if not more) of the features from "next 12 months" are not delivered, patches got split and delayed despite saying that everything goes well, Progress tracker was not updated for 8 months, Roadmap does not get update because "everything is on track (to be delayed lol)", Game is nowhere near completion it's a few systems band aided together that somehow work (or dont), and they dare to speak about 1.0. We have not even heard what will be third system or it was not shown to us for a while. They have learned nothing and are doing Pyro 2016 again. but now with 1.0. To make this game feel like a game, fixing bugs, revising every ship to bring it to "Gold Standard" they will have to stop development - no more content, no more ships, no more variants, no new systems/missions and it still would take a solid year or two and they cannot do that. I understand that sometimes things don't go our way, but come on 12+ years and they still didn't learn to communicate. Disappointment.
You know my mom growing up would do a lot of morphine and literally start making dinner at 11am (thinking it was 11pm) and stay up until 11pm making dinner not really telling us when it'd be done and at the end she really did make an amazing 4 course dinner (when all we asked for was a sandwich) so honestly this "it'll be ready when it's ready" and almost no more conversation is pretty standard. Plus at the end of the wait I did get a 4 course meal out of it so was it worth it? Sorta
@@deezulboy Maybe its because when you read it all at once it sounds just bad? I have been testing 3.24 for like two months now and it does not even has features i have tested when it entered Evo phase, so yeah I went through being upset, annoyed and now i'm just simply disappointed, i expect nothing from them till end of the year anyway.
It's like surfing a wave. They can occasionally do cool tricks as long as the wave keeps coming. The wave can really never stop, but their experience should allow them to do more tricks with smaller waves. The issue is they keep falling off the wave and not doing any tricks, and there are lots of other riders who could hop on the board instead. We give waves to see tricks but we aren't seeing tricks so it's time to change riders
I don’t want them focusing on manually curated content… make game loops that bright players together either in coop or versus…. Thats the only kind of content that is lasting and evergreen
It was completely unnecessary and could have been handled a different way. It's clunky and feels fake. Nobody would design a craft like that. The physics engine and flight models need huge updates anyway, so I don't know why they got this bee in their bonnet about changing it right now.
My ship is totally gimped because of Master mode and the mass rebalancing of ships to their archetypes. It's not fun. CiG implemented this very badly and we have no clue on how they will fix it. It's been months and they say 4.0 etc. For a game that sells ships to fund itself, it's unacceptable.
I love how they though it trough... MM will work even when pretty much none of those ships are balanced, but we believe finger crossed with some tuning it will work ... so literaly they don't know.. they know as much as we know... that it doesn't work.. they just hope it will work.. that's not how systems are implemented, first make desing MM then test it if it works and not release it and hope somehow we will fine tune it on the go and with a miracle it will be ok.. .wtf... that's what pissing me off they literaly have no idea what they are doing and saying it's good...
Just you wait, you’ll soon have the ultra fun aspect of your ship catching fire and components breaking!! Sooo.. much… fun… This game is screwed and it’s sad.
@@Pixelthekid if you think the chaos of that kind of situation isn't fun, then i don't know what to tell you lol that shit is gonna create some fun ass situations... at least for my friends and I
It's not that there's bad communication it's that there's a fundamental contradiction at the core of Star Citizen's development. They've never had any idea how long development would take and they've had to keep us strung along for the ride to maintain funding otherwise we'd never get there.
I do think most "players" do you want stability over everything else. Most players seem to be fine with just a second life type of experience. I could be wrong but I think most backers want the foundation built to prove that the game can even exist as sold.
When I saw how "ambitious" the 3.23 version was supposed to be back in the begining of the year, I knew that everything downstream would inevitably be delayed.
I have been hounded, and banned a first time in 2018, when I told there would be no chance of Pyro comming even in 2022, let alone in 2020. I've then been hounded by saying SQ42 would never come before 2025 at least (my opinion have changed now, for all the hype they tried and failed to gather from me at least, I now believe before 2027 is very unlikely). Then the famous CitCon 2023, I've been called all sort of name and basically told I should quit the game, for telling people to calm down, CIG is still the same, content will still come at a trickle, and while update are big, it only means we'll see more bugs and more delays. But man, hardcore fans of the project are nothing more than trash pandas hissing at anyone even commenting anything not full of praise on SC. They only know to say on repeat "it's alpha" and " no one have been doing what they do", since 12 years and counting, and for the next 10 at least remaining in this alpha cycle (in which the BMM still won't be delivered).
@@Venhili ROFL, how are those boots tasting? We've been siting back more than enough already, now the time has come to warn potential new players against trying SC before full release, which, given the buggy experience, has been much easier than anticipated. A small but worthy contribution. The less money CIG receives, the more pressed they'll be to give actual results, not whatever the shit they've been releasing in those last few years.
@@captainharlock3998 I think it's the opposite. The less money CIG receives, the more likely the project is to fail. It's not just your average game, and I don't want it to be an average game. I'm okay with it taking as long as it needs to, and I'm certainly not alone in that.
@@captainharlock3998 You are still just speculating about dates. Unlikely that you will find many people here who couldn't wait to pat you on the back for all that inspiring bitterness.
I definatly blame the PR, Marketing and Community team. Not the devs. I mean just look at ISC and Jared. how many times have he not said stuff there, that has biten him in the ass. 4.0 is one of those. June /july he said, 4.0 is coming sooner then you think, hinting towards citizen con. Then a week later, it was before end of year. They should just stop saying shit like this.
Well, 4.0 was promised last citizencon, and they failed miserably to deliver. We won’t see 4.0 Live smooth and running until summer 2025 probably. What the F are they going to try shoving down our throats this citizencon??? Are they thinking we’re buying any of their crap anymore?? “Ahem guys… remember those things we said lasts year? Yeah those things are on the way don’t worry, we also have all this hopes and dreams we’d like you to believe… also, don’t forget to purchase some of our good ol’ yet-to-be-out-of-white-box-concept ships, you’ll have fun!..A date? While we don’t have a date, we can say it will be out SOON(tm), when it’s ready. Hold the line.” Pd. Sorry I’m not fluent in English
Honestly, I'd rather they cancel ALL community productions at this point. I would rather NO COMMUNICATION than constant promises and gaslighting about delays. CIG needs to shut their fucking mouth at this point and deliver what they deliver when they do.
Been here since the start. It’s not just lack of progress, or missing vague altered targets, it’s that last year when they started taking about this year I knew it was the usual “don’t think this year.. look shiny shiny next year” while still continuing the tired FOMO marketing. I’m sick of it. I have been for five years now. Sorry but to a degree I do blame the devs, they are stepping up year on year to publicly push the narrative, they are part of the FOMO machine, stop making excuses, start asking for results.
With all of this, always keep one thing in mind: I've recently shown SC to someone who'd never even heard about it at all. Just as it is. Waking up, station interior, hangar, ships, transition to city, around the city, back up into space, and doing missions. And all the small gameplay elements that come along with these things, including quite a few bugs, very fundamental things breaking (inventory itself), and needing to work around issues, and janky looking stuff. We tend to be blind to what's already here, since we've seen most or all of it ourselves by now, and are just used to it. But to new people, even the current state is MAGICAL and the premise of getting even more over the years exhilarating. Despite all the jank on full display, I had to stop them from from immediately purchasing their way in, suggesting they'd at least wait for one of the free fly events to both try, and see SC at one of its lowest points under all the load before doing that. And honestly - I feel the same. Always did. Still do. I still get lost in that magic feeling, which the game's current state and content can and does already give, but no other does. Would I like more, and stability? Oh definitely. But I'm still having an absolute blast every time I play, with or without new content when I do. I usually drop out for a few months, then back in for a few months at a time, been cycling like that for years now, and am always looking forward to it. I find that the most enjoyment comes out of just "rolling with it" when stuff goes wrong, and trying to minimize potential huge losses as much as possible from the start to not get too bummed out when it does go sideways. And yet, I've had so many movie-esque stories unfold with me at the center already, only possible here. All that said, I fully expect 4.0 being an unplayable mess for quite a while. Which is why I'm getting most of my fix again right now. =)
as a kid and a fan of sci fi, I always looked forward to the future when there would be a full space simulator video game. I was 28 when SC was first announced and it had all the promise and potential of fulfilling that dream. but now, the less I think about this game, the less I feel let down and disappointed. I bought into SC 3 years ago, installed it and played it for a couple of hours then uninstalled. it was nowhere near finished then, and it's nowhere near finished now. at the rate they are going, I'll be surprised if SQ42 launches in 2026, and pretty sure the rest of the game won't launch before 2030 (I really hope I'm wrong). I'm 40 now, and the game is STILL IN ALPHA. it's just so sad that they can't seem to get their shit together.
Called this back in last October and everyone spewed vitriol at me for daring to say it. 11 years as a backer you start to understand you need to add 4 months to every target CIG tries to hit
I dont care about more star systems. I want gameplay. Why does it matter if they have 5 systems if theres nothing to do in them. I was playing the other night with my brother and we were stuck on a mission. We both decided to quit because it didn't mean anything if we completed it.
at this point they probably have 50 people making new ships out of the 1000+ that work there. Back when they had 400 employees 12 made new ships. They also lost a lot of their good vet ship builders to poaching so that set them back as well. And there's no point in optimizing an unfinished product.
@MuchCow9000 except development has always progressed. People act like 80% of employees just make ships. The game is not going to receive serious optimization until after server meshing and sq42 come out.
@MuchCow9000 no I'm saying they have people who only work on ships and they have the rest of the people coding and making other stuff. The new ship crew is meaningless in the big picture to get the game done faster. You're not catching on to anything ur just dumb for thinking the ship people have an effect on the speed of development on things that don't involve them.
my guess is citcon 2025 is the 4.0 patch and IAE will be near the jump point station somehow. That may be difficult unless they can set it as a new player home station though. We will get a 3.25 patch end of first quarter 2025.
Communication is the least of the issues at CIG, the problem is they have very low standards of quality and don’t seem to care about the work they do. Half the stuff released is so poorly coded and made I really don’t know how they find it acceptable to release, I strongly believe that SQ42 will be a flop that kills the game. CIG will be a case study on what happens when you put someone who’s not qualified or has the temperament to run a company and project of this scale. (This is coming from a bitter backer who has put over 10k into the game)
@@anno-fw7xnHave you played the game? It’s full of bugs that are from rushed out development and shortcuts being taken. Given the length of time between patches and the poor quality you really have to ask what they are actually doing, I wanted it to succeed but it is now a sinking ship.
@@Frizzings yes i did and i playd it back in 3.0 and i think i know more about game dev than you that not a lot. this game is a lot more stabel than back than. But lets go for one factore perfomance, i bett on the CIG used maschines it a lot better. Also I had ptu build how were great unitel a lot of people joind. you can only test you code with a dev team or even ptu with has many person. All modern games have bug at lunch becueses some stuff you only see wenn 10000 people play somthing.
What kills me is that they make money selling ships, you buy said ships for said roles, like the ion being a capital ship killer. Then they release master mode and literally ruined all the ships I purchased!
The tone and delivery of this video is possibly the best balanced explanation of the apparent 4.0 delay that has been presented to the SC community so far. Great job @spaceTomato
I'm scared by this amount of cope... why everyone believes that server meshing will help with performance? why? atm 1 server per star system. first implementation will be 1 server for pyro + 1 server for stanton. NOTHING WILL CHANGE WUTH SERVER MESHING! You may argue: wait till multiple servers per solar system! But guess what? they can do it already according to tests, but they're not doing it. And from tests - no performance improvement
@@seanorourke1601 I don’t know how many incredibly rude, immature posts there were in Spectrum yelling at the developers (they do read those) to hurry up and release 3.24 already, yada yada yada. I hope everyone is enjoying their rushed patch.
I did not expect that much in terms of 4.0 delivery, but I am disappointed with the frustrating year. Only around 50 percent of things that were slated for delivery this year at CC23 have been implemented, and we've only had a patch and a half for the entire year - that's what makes it difficult to deal with the fact that not only did 4.0 get booted into Q4, but there's a good chance Pyro and/or SM will not arrive this year.
I feel lucky I only spent a few months of my life with this game. I couldn't even begin to possibly imagine what it must be like for someone that has been eating their BS for 10 years.
I mean, if you're that emotionally invested in a game, where it's progress can effect you to a degree that you describe it like a marriage, you should probably get a new hobby. That said, I love the game. I take breaks while waiting for updates. But the game offers things no other game does or maybe even can. I have thousands of hours in it and I'll continue to play. Just because Pyro gets pushed a few months, it doesn't mean that I suddenly hate the game and want all of my money back.
As a back-end developer with 20+ years on the clock, I confess that server meshing is a task of monumental complexity both -- mathematical and implementational. On top of that, it heavily depends on the set of allowed client actions and expected servers' reactions -- any change in the latter may (and most likely will) require deep changes in the server meshing layer. This is why I don’t expect a working version of SM in 2024 or even in 2025. The gameplay must be defined and delivered first, and only then can SM be done properly.
Man, bringing up the supercut was spot-on. CIG comms seem to get more and more offended when backers are disappointed when expectations aren't met by claiming those expectations were unfounded, or leaning on the "we're hoping for" and "we're targeting" statements. After all these years missing like 90% of public dates, they still make these statements and generate a bunch of hype. With respect to the developers actually making the game, their comms needs to do some soul-searching on whether they think it's more important to overhype and sell ships, or build a decent reputation in the industry. Eventually, their existing reputation is going to catch up with them. Maybe it's this year, maybe it's next year. Maybe it takes even longer (consumers, am I right?), but this carrot cannot be strung for many more years. TBH if they switched it up and took an honest stance with reasonable expectations, they could build that reputation back with some time. But seeing as I've seen nothing change in the last 8 years since I backed, I'm not counting on it. So if CIG isn't going to set my expectations appropriately, I'll do it myself: I don't expect 4.0 live this year, and I don't expect 4.0 to magically fix the game, either.
A LOT of the problems we are experiencing now are just repeat problems from 3.18. It is clear that bandaids were placed on all issues from 3.18 and now with 3.24 and the amount of stuff added made all those festering wounds reopen. Now I am hoping that seeing this they will be more inclined to find a permanent solution to these bugs so that future patches may be met with more stability. But in all honesty this year we have received more updates and game features than we ever have before so at least there is that
Here's the big question... with all of Jared's telling the community that 4.0 has been working on while 3.24 is fixed.... why is 4.0 not in Evo? Kinda makes him look like he was either lying... or there are really big problems with Server Meshing. It SHOULD be in Evo right now to release at Q4, it is not going to be an easy release.
Curious to see if you will still feel the same in 5 years, after 5 years of more of the same. Will you still be so supportive? I was you, back in 2017, and 2018, and 2019 and then going to Citcon in 2019, hearing the promises, and then watching it all fall apart over several years, by 2022 I was completely done with believing a single word anyone says about SC, including you.
4.1 and 4.2 over the next half year? That's hilariously optimistic. There's no way something as big as server meshing gets through PTU in less than 6 months. We'll be lucky to get 4.0 in Live before Dec 2025.
I think the biggest things people miss is that comparing 4.0 to 3.18 is fundamentally flawed. BUT, that requires having followed and having a good understanding of the development of Server Meshing and PES. We are getting Static Server Meshing, not Dynamic. It is a very simplified version of the overall vision, and despite what you might think, is not nearly the fundamental change that PES is, and CIG have explained why numerous times (8 entirely new backend services all at once, the "big bang approach" as they've called it, vs essentially one). Couple that with the fact that we have test Server Meshing and the Jump Point transitions, that CIG have said that it went far better than expected, that 4.0 development has continued while 3.24 languished in PTU, and that they didn't push 4.0 to Q4 until just last week when they could have delayed it at any time during that period but continued to say that they're targeting a release for well before the end of the year. It is simply an issue of not continuing to evaluate the evidence presented in order to manage expectations. If 3.24 has taken a month or two longer than anticipated, which it has and is documented as such, that doesn't in any way suggest that the release window for 4.0 magically extends 6 months of more. Don't let your emotions force you into making flawed comparisons people.
No depth or connection between assassination, bounty hunting, mercenary, pirate, xeno hunting, infiltration, exobiology, exploring, mining, salvaging, smuggling, trading, courier, passenger carrier, search and rescue....there's already a game out there that does these and no progress resets!
I just want SQ42. Thats what i signed up for way back at the original kickstarter. I havent played SC since 3.18. I have basically given up. Im not playing or spending another penny until SQ42 comes out.
Personally I don't count a release to PTU as a release. Only Live release should be counted. Saying they've launched 4.0 before the end of the year because Evocati has it is BS. I don't see 4.0 being on Live until mid 2025. And I'm being optimistic saying that.
100% agree I've said the same thing for years now.
Yep, My money is Q3 2025 assuming things go well. I actually think they will release a separate instance of pyro in Oct / Nov 2024.
@@johnnypatterson77 Yup look how much trouble they are having with just 3.24
I disagree. If it is only Evocati, then yes, I agree, that doesn't count. But if it is an open PTU where everyone can try it, then I consider it "close enough".
I have to agree. Mid 2025 before we see a working 4.0 at best.
I have never put trust in the roadmap.. i never look at it, as it only brings disappointment.
you need to study and count on "RoadMap" so you can get qualified for "RoadMap Watcher" Badge :D :D :) ahahaaaa
@doctorno3912
0 seconds ago
Must have been one of those pesky roadmap watches cig like to throwshade at and accuse spreading fomo.
Did you enjoy your deleted by Nighteider-CIG?
@@doctorno3912 it began by Deleted by cuckRider but ended up by account being suspended from participating in Spectrum... 2 more days until I'm cleared and get back to posting some funny gifs lol
@yashik lol, thank you for your service citizen o7
Good call lol
Everyone was shocked by 4.0 getting delayed… again
By everyone, you mean, no one, Right? :)
I don’t think too many people were surprised, though a lot of people were definitely disappointed
No one was shocked. People are upset because they made such a big deal about it being "for real this time." Announcing it for the first half of the year, saying multiple times that they were confident in the timeline, saying they'd have multiple server meshing play tests, having a playable preview at CitCon, going on and on about how people coming over from Sq42 would speed up development, saying multiple times that 2024 would be a "watershed year for the project." It wasn't the same "we're on the road to 4.0, it's just around the corner" vagueness. They intentionally set expectations high and threw the gauntlet down in a big and explicit way, then utterly failed to deliver. Now they're using the same tired excuses of "well we didn't *proommmiiissseeee* anything, development is hard" and like, that's frustrating enough after waiting for 6 years, but to fall back on the same gaslighting after being so insistent that "no no no, this time is different" has many in the community rightfully upset.
you mean again again
@@tallperson117 its been especially frustrating watching them attempt to implement instanced hangars. it really makes them seem like they have no idea what they're doing.
Delay me once shame on you
Delay me twice shame on me
Delay me a decade…. Well…. SHAME
No, still shame on you...
CIG: 'Patched delayed. Here are 6 new jpegs you can buy!'
100%
What does that even mean? People play this game for hours a day flying their Jpegs around.
CIG: "Well we failed lol. But hey, there's a new ship for 4000 dollars!"
Yeah but they’re sweet freaking jpegs.
So what did we learn this week? CIG's confidence means shit.
Oh CIG is in no shortage of confidence alright,
it's the honesty and respect towards their community that they pledged to uphold in the early days which is severely lacking these days.
Remember when it was said that every dollar pledged would go straight into the development of the game?
Yeah well, look at their needlessly massive Manchester office, how they forcibly relocated loads of people there and how they splurged on all that merch being brandished around that place, lifesize statues of suits, spaceship themed areas, overly expensive furniture.....something which you might expect from an established studio with successfull released games in their portfolio, but not from a company like them who are yet to release a single finished project.
@@avon_c6199 So they splurged on their main office that houses 1000 developers.
What is even your point?
Would you rather have Sony force No Mans Sky release so you can bitch about the poor release quality.
Love reading comments of people that never worked in developement.
@@TheEbonyEngineer "Love reading comments of people that never worked in developement."
And YOU do?
Go ahead, educate me on development!
What my point is?
My effin point is that CIG wastes backer funds on things not tied to development, DESPITE their original promise of putting every dollar received by backers into development, and that all before they have even released anything remotely finished to the general public.
Squander54 is still MIA and StarCitizen is still in development limbo and nowhere near its first RC.
CIG is a scam.
Uninstalling is the best option, It's a great concept but it's also a pipe dream, The development relies on ship sales which they are putting most of their efforts into and once those slow or dry up, that will be the end of this dream.
To be fair, it’s how they fund. Unless they sell equity to which the pipe dream never happens as NO publisher will ever risk trying this. If anything this allows for testing gaming theories for the future.
The first through the wall is always the bloodiest. Gamers, not publishers, YOU and other gamers are allowing such a historical attempt at gaming on such a scope. If it fails, others will use this and learn for the eventual next attempt.
@@larrymitchell6470 I understand that but when do consumers say enough is enough? They've raised over $700 million and honestly they have very little to show for it. I've seen indie developers do more on a fraction of a budget. I understand they're trying to develop a lot of new tech but that should have been done prior to creating a game not putting the cart before the horse.
@@larrymitchell6470 Imho yuo are looking at it backwards. Never was it said when Star Citizen was kickstarted , and even later when the scope was increased, that they would need milions in ship sales to finish the game. Wich also make makes that game that supposedly aims to be this idealistic best of the best dream, well, lets no mince words, pay-to-win. And yet here were years later. Its monumentaly mismanaged. I loved Wing Commander/Privateer games, even Star Lancer, but reading on their histories its a recuring scheme that Chris Roberts is a feture creep and a dreamer, he needs someone to put a brake on him, someone connected to reality. In SC Chris is the boss , so there is no one that can do that.
This is why game devs need a Publisher...
I do hop in from time to time and I always end up uninstalling after an hour or two, mainly because if the trams are not broken (and they are everytime they patch), the ships don't spawn. When they spawn, they explode. When they don't explode, you noclip and die. When you don't noclip, the server dies.
It’s not even just the delays. The content they make is absolutely BORING or ANNOYING. They certainly know how to make cool ships. Gameplay? LOL CIG has no clue at all. I mean AT ALL.
I've tried hard since March of 2014 to stay positive. I stepped away for a while after the first couple of years and came back during the coof. I've been playing steadily since then. And while, there have indeed been changes, it has been glacial. If someone were to do a chart of the rate of progress, versus all the currently "promised' features, I'm afraid we'd be talking decades before they all were added. And, as you said, the biggest problems is that the game and all the backend code required to run all these functions, is stretched to the breaking point. LEt's say.. and I do mean hypothetically (to paraphrase John C. McGinnley from the Office) that server meshing works as intended, what then?
There is more features on the road map than we currently have features, to my mind. The very idea that there are going to be dozens of players doing engineering in a major space battle (not just the two ships on AC), when they can't get Blockade Runner or Xenothreat to run smoothly on a PTU is frankly laughable. And if Squadron 42 isn't the Mass Effect of this decade, CIG is never going to capture the audience they need for funding. How many more ships can you add to the queue, when you have 40 already, and many more than need reworks. Selling ships is going to be a game of diminishing returns soon. Only so many whales are going to spend money on capital ships. And all those whales think that there will be some magic AI in the future that will let them run their ships solo. I think rough skies are ahead.
This video has already produced more comments than 80% of my videos this year. Be kind to one another! lol
Drama and controversy will do that. lol
Nah really? You made a damn drama bait post. Of course it's starring drama. Ffs.
@@SpaceTomato it's a good video, thanks for pumping out the content ❤️
War never changes
@@FreebirthBoccara There is no "drama bait" in simply stating positions on factual reality. If some people can't help turning into immature Redditors and getting involved in ad-hominem mudslinging, that is on them.
Devs: woah woah woah this isn't a playable game yet, why are we acting so entitled?
Marketing team: "PLAYABLE NOW! PLAY IT! COME OOOON!"
Chris and his cronies + the marketing team are arguably THE problem of the damn tech demo
Long time backer here and I've been upset for awhile.. I regret my investment.
You’re a paid tester! You test and you pay😀
I joined in December of 2012 on the kick starter, when we still had nothing in 2017, I refunded, I was one of those ppl that jumped in BIG over 10k. CR is a lair and scam artist. yet ppl have given him over $700million bucks. It boggles the mind. Everyone need to refund and or take him to court.
My frustration comes from broken features that have been just around the corner for years, and the pushing of completed new ships while there is already sold ships not being completed. YOU SUCK CIG!
Yeah thats just wierd to me... why are they making new ships when their backlog is this huge?
@@Memeguppy They do it to raise money for the game. That's how they make money to further development. They count on people buying new ships coming out as a promise to add that ship later on.
@@islayeri5254 But they almost never make the ships they sold but keep adding new ''concepts'' thats what we are talking about here
@@Memeguppy yeah that’s dumb. It’s just their way of making money though. Creating a backlog of things to do.
Agree with your take here. The key feature we need for game enjoyment currently is much better server performance. I really want more gameplay loops, new areas etc, but if they come at further degradation in server responsiveness, it really affects the perceived long-term viability of the game. I recall seeing the "Fire" ISC episode a few weeks back and thinking, "Man, extra stuff the server has to keep track of and keep in sync between players. I don't know if this is a good idea". I would rather CIG not add things like fire that add flavor at the cost of server performance until the meshing changes deliver what was promised.
Only, it's not at the cost of server performance. They have a separate dedicated team working on meshing/replication layer/etc. So would you rather they stop development on everything else and let those devs idle while the server-side software is finished?
@@Nexovus Yes. I'd rather them wait on server meshing before releasing an update with so much fanfare that you'd think you're going to have a great time before reality quickly hitting you in the face that shit is lagging like fucking crazy, as it has always been with every update. I'm fine not playing the game for some months/year if it means the next update will really perform as a normal game should. 3.23 brought a massive never-seen-before wave of content creators that ended up hating the game more than liking it because all the new content was unplayable. I don't know about you, but I'm very concerned about the reputation of the game just as much as the game itself.
@@mmmaxxx__ So you want the game to take significantly longer to be fully developed...
Here's some insight from a programmer (who asked, right? You did) Developing features separate from the server software allows developers to get VALUABLE feedback from the inner workings of their software in unideal environments, while the ideal environment is BEING DEVLEOPED. That way, when the underlying software that relies on the server meshing to work is put in place, it's mostly fleshed out. OR, we could have all those developers sit on their ass and waste the funds that everyone has contributed by buying ships. What you're suggesting is nothing short of stupid.
I don't think you understand that having everyone wait for the like 20 guys working on server meshing isn't good for development. What should all the other people do while they wait?
Stop thinking of SC as a game and more like a paid pre-alpha test
@@oddursigurdsson9637 Developing new tech that's never existed before isn't a standard part of video game development (nor is it CHEAP), meaning this situation is a bit different. If it were any other game taking so long, I wouldn't have as much patience. Not to mention the fact that when they finish this networking feat, it's something that can be built into other games to MASSIVELY increase the player capacity for multiplayer games. What they're building here isn't simple or easy to do, if it were, someone else would have done it by now and this wouldn't take so long. Relax, find a hobby to pass the time, complaining isn't one.
I’ve never experienced a game that so over promised and so under delivered. When Disco said they should never be afraid of a new idea, that’s cover for Chris changing things again. Chris has always had an issue with feature creep, as an example look at how many times he’s changed the destruction of ships, or the flight model.
I get that he wants it to be the best but other developers are taking his ideas and putting them in games now, when Squadron releases it will likely look like old tech :)
As always great positive video :)
I have no idea why a flight model is so hard. Go pick a game with a flight model you like. Give said game to your devs and say, "make it like this". Wait 6 months to a year max and have that flight model coded into your engine.
@@Power5 The original flight model they had back in Arena Commander was the best one they had. Every single flight model update has made it worse and worse.
Good news people. We will be “On the road to Pyro” again this year at citizencon. Only five more years to go till we get to the end of that road. We are all such suckers for their BS.
or will be be diverted off the road to pyro due to a crash, and take a few years to get back on it?
3.24 shouldn't even count as it's own release, it's just a late delivery of content that was supposed to be in 3.23....HALF A YEAR LATE.
It's insane 2024 is going to have a single update when this was supposed to be the year it all changes.
@@violentmnky Paradoxically, it is really becoming the year in which everything changes, the mood of the entire community is changing. I think CIG will notice it when this will affect sales. Angry people don't spend money.
There have been so many patches that were going to change it all. There have been so many patches that did not change it all in a good way.
Everybody is frustrated because of the slow progress CIG is making. At this pace the game will still be in alpha in 10 years.
To put it into perspective, even if the development speed, sped up 5x, it will still take 10 years being in Alpha if they stick to all their promised features, and fleshed out game mechanics, jobs, side stuff, etc...
At this rate, this game will be out of Alpha in 35+ years... and I'm not lieing or exaggerating. The amount of crap that still has to be done staggering. They've barely scratched the surface in 10 years, and the list has at least 20+ MAJOR mechanics not even remotely in yet. Let alone tier 0...
Or they finally go bankrupt from overspending millions. Either way 1.0 will never happen
If they say nuclear fusion is always 10 years away, then Star Citizen's full release is always 20 years away.
lol
i put my money on functional fusion plant before star citizen release
It sounds so sad that waiting for SC has been the majority of your gaming life. The days of spending a year of real-life time in a single video game like WoW, those were some of my great gaming memories. Good game, great people to play with, good amount of content and variety.
Waiting for a game for nearly 12 years since backing in Oct'12 is one of my worst memories. The product is so much less fun than a dozen other space games, the multiplayer part is still so stale and just bad that it would not feel much different without it...
I think this is due to star citizen being unique in we've known about it since it's birth and have been able to watch it grow. The only other game that's close is kingdom come deliverance as it was also a kickstarter game. But I believe it had more dev time behind it before it when to KS unlike SC. They already had a studio up and running SC was just chris and some of the other senior devs and that was it.
Most AAA games take 5+ years to make and even some shit ones take even longer. Skull and bones was in development for over 10 years and has like 5 things to do in it. Concord was in development for 8 years and is trash.
SQ42 and SC are being made to be the biggest and best ever made. And starting from almost scratch that's hard and takes a long time. Now had SC gone through traditional development we'd have seen a trailer every couple of years and it would be like yeah ok it'll be done whenever and it wouldn't be such an issue. It just seems so grooling now because we've known and seen it this whole time.
ITS COMING .. it will come it only needs like 200 or 300 Million dollars more.. TOPS .. they promised ^^
Just 2 more years.
@@doctorno3912 lol
I just want better flight....big bruh moment
shut up, nerd
PU PvP is unbearable in MM, I really wish they had listened to you.
exactly, that's pretty much my only beef, it started with flight and we still can park ships nose down on planets and vehicles don't even have progressive throttle
If they fire Yogi we might actually have a chance at it. His arrogance and ego prevent it until then.
flight model should be easy. Find a game with the flight model you like and buy said game for devs. Have devs fly that and tell them to put that model into the star engine.
As for vehicles, we have an absolutely ridiculous physics environment, and being that vehicles need physics to move, that is going to be harder to fake since there are so many different gravities to work with. Easier to fake physics if it is only a single planet. But then again SF did it within a year and their engine is like a decade old as well. The turning in SF is not exactly realistic, but the rover does not bounce around on the ground when you spawn it. Doesnt get launched off planet if an NPC bumps into it.
I told them in Spectrum in 2021 that marketing was going to kill the game .A literal dev called me a doomer; me a backer since 2013 for voicing an obvious worry that marketing's outsized control on the game is actually effecting the game. Nothing is going to change as long as they can continue to sell bs ships they never have to release. They should cancel physical Cit-con's until the game is in a better state, not to mention the UK coming apart at the seams due to free speech violations.
How many employees are currently working on the game? If they'd stop the marketing they'd go bankrupt in three months.
@allicedee that's part of the problem. They got too big, too fast.
I've been censored by devs as well for pointing out the consequence of certain development priorities, and for explaining how there are just some things that are practically impossible due to technological and financial constraints.
I was informed that CIG did not allow the spreading of Fear Uncertainty or Doubt.
Well ain't that a kick in the teeth? I wasn't telling anyone that the game was a scam, or that it would fail. I was explaining that if development had taken this long, CIG would have to adapt and find your typical clever game developer ways of rounding off edges and reevaluate some decade old features... And what I got for my trouble was a canned platitude that made CIG sound like it was hawking NFTs on Discord.
That probably did more to turn me away from the game than any failure to deliver in many years.
@GameSetPatch yeah, I caught a BS ban from nightrider. That is what made me decide to never spend another dime on the game. I also have told my extended gaming guilds to not buy the game either. That's several hundred people, at least.
@@allicedeethey'll be just his bankrupt if they burn all their players. I'm not going anywhere, I plan to stick around until the game is out but I know a lot of people are not so dead set on that.
I ignore the "were gonna add something new soon!!" Announcements for literally every game, and instead just play it when i feel like it. Ngl SC is a really good game to just play, as long as you make sure you're on a good server. However, i wouldnt recommend investing anything but a starter package, as i have almost every ship earned with aUEC no problem.
I'm not frustrated. I was frustrated 8 years ago. Now I know the score. I think having any kind of expectation of CIG delivering in a timely manner is absolutely insane at this point. Like...have you not been paying attention during the last decade? Even for server meshing, the first target date for that was in 2018. TWENTY EIGHTEEN!
And I'm not downplaying the challenge of serving meshing. I absolutely understand why it would take so long. But people, including CR, should have realized that already.
Dynamic server meshing in Q4 2033
You know why I prefer watching your videos as opposed to other news video creators? You go through the effort of matching your video snippets to your text. When talking about server meshing you show that. Desynch and AI you show that. Even though I have probably seen all this footage somewhere before its nice to have matching script and visuals. Others just recite their text and show something completely irrelevant and its confusing at times.
I appreciate you, thank you
I totally agree with you @nightfoxg! It is pleasant to watch with the effort appreciated for sure!
I know, I know, different teams are doing different things... But CIG seems to fixate too much on the icing on the cake, when the cake isn't done yet! How many disgusting spoonfuls of icing do I have to eat before I get a proper cake?
real
You often see stuff like this when people are poorly managed.
lol ya i might become a teanager before this update march 16
Cake 1.0 in Q2 2041
You don't have to eat it, let others eat it if you don't want to.
14 years, for 14 years, tbis game has been in development. GTA 10 years. GTA has announced a full launch in 2025, Star Citizen, we may possibly, kinda, probably not, get Alpha 4.0. GTA has a budget with just over 1.2 billion in development. Star Citizen 854 million, and it's not even close to full launch. I have been around this most of my adult life. Im tired of false promises, im tired of getting my hopes up for nothing. At this point, it may just be time to walk away.
The real development started in 2015 when the CryTek development team moved to CIG in Frankfurt. Don't forget that there is not one, but two games in the works and the main work is Squadron 42, not Star Citizen!
@@juz3r1 yeah, that's not how it works. You don't go off when they moved or decided to get serious about it. You go off the date development of the game starts. Pre development started in 2010 development started 2011. Just because they lost/had their work corrupted in 2012 when they went to Cloud Imperium or moved 2015, or opened new studios it's still development time. It's still 14 years it's still in an unstable Alpha. People say what they want to make themselves feel better but at the end of the day it's a 14 year old project that is no where near complete.
GTA was also built by a massive ESTABLISHED studio and is a tiny project by comparison, the problem is you getting you hopes up, not the timeline that was very obviously overly optimistic
@@stratvids that's true, but 854 million and they don't even have Squadron finished. It's a solo player game. Squadron 42 isn't even in Beta. I could understand the time and budget if Squadron 42 was finished or even almost done but both games are not finished. Heck it's not even an open world game.... so to recap Squadron 42 is a single player game that is not open world and it's not finished. Star Citizen is MMO open world it's not finished. 854 million and 14 years of development time not 1 game has been finished or moved to beta.
@@kennyknapp5531 I got my hopes up when i heard that they employed a whole lot of new people. I thought to myselfe that NOW developement will sure pick up a lot of speed, but sadly it was just another dissapointment. After patches game is more buggy and even more unplayable then before, new / improved gameplay features are more rare then full solar eclipes in real life. I truly can see the potential in this game, but copium aside, with that much funding and employees the game should have progressed miles by now. I can say that i am no longer excited for new FreeFlight events to show this game to my little brother like i have planned, because i know for sure he is just going to be dissapointed like i was. I will not play this game again until non SC creators start posting about that it has actually got good now. SpaceTomato really makes good videos, but i just cant consume more copium from SC creators.
The narrative back in 2016 as to why things were taking time under their 'changed vision' for the game was that they were taking the time to do things right. The assurance we were given by Chris when voting on that change to keep crowdfunding open was that we would get higher quality gameplay, more of it and faster. At no point did CIG say we would get less, buggier and slower, and at no point did they say 'we don't know how to build this foundation, we're winging it and will end up ripping up most of this stuff multiple times'. Here we are 12 years later and nearly a Billion USD spent for neither of the games being anywhere near feature complete, and those early statements from CIG about having 'all of this and more', of it 'not being a pipe dream' and of their being experts who knew what needed doing have been exposed by time to have been lies. At best, well intentioned lies, but still untruths. After this long I care less and less about the excuses and am looking for a reason to respect them again, but the trust is forever gone.
The whole “vote” thing…what was it, a web poll?
The Yahtzee takedown of SC seems enormously prescient these days.
How can you get "higher quality gameplay, more of it" but also faster?
I basically gave up on the game, I'll check back in 5 years when I'm 55 years old
Im 47 lol. I wonder if Chris Roberts himself will not retire before the game is done lol, we are getting on with years. Would be hilarious if the drama continued with another generation, somebody takeing over after Crhis, and our kids/relatives taking our accounts...
Cig is overconfident and incompetent at the same time.
There's confidence and there's delusion. CIG are delusional.
@@CHEESYhairyGASH Kool-Aid drinking delusion seems to be a requirement of employment
House usually go hand in hand with
Let me see if I can muster up any shock at it being delayed... 😐 Nope. The only thing CIG could shock me with is getting something done on time. (Ship sales don't count, that's the only thing CIG makes sure is running properly.) 😝
I love the white knights defending this shit with well you know, who expected cig to deliver 🙄 🤣
Even getting something “done” would be a welcome change.
@@doctorno3912 I think it was two Christmases ago they pissed everybody off. Nerfing ships big time, the insulting Christmas presents, etc. Then in January they released the hoverquad. I was like this is the perfect time to send CIG the message that we are unhappy! Don't buy it. And it had record sales. 🤷 It was then I realized that this train was full steam ahead and nothing CIG could do to the players would really affect how they run things.
I always get the impression that CIG is just treading water until computer technology advances enough to make their jobs easier/possible. 🤔
better GPU or CPU won't solve the mess in spagety code that causes d-synch on server... not even better server or connection can solve it... they have to put a work into it... and not wait until AI can make SC
Fake it till you make it. Like Theranos!
@@rolinthor make it, stupidest thing I heard when talking about a company that has taken in almost a billion dollars. Face it they made what they wanted already LOL
5:17 Server recovery: “30% of the time, it works all the time!”
We all know we wont see a whisp of 4.0 till halfway of next year we just keep fooling ourselves
I dont feel confident enough in this game to spend anymore money on it.
I've never been this apathetic... play other games, SC can figure it out in a corner by itself.
Stopped playing 3 years ago, even those days, gameplay experience seems to be the same, a disappointment…
I don't pay attention to the roadmap any more. What gets me is how constantly broken it is. Rather than fixing stuff, they add new stuff on top of broken stuff.
Now days, when elevators don't work, and I fall through floors, I usually give up and do something else. It's not worth the time.
It was always a mistake to expect people who could not make an N scale environment remotely stable in a decade for even an hour to develop a stable 10N scale environment ever.
if they haven’t added all of the previously promised features and gameplay loops by the end of 2025 I’ll just sell my account and move on. I’m so sick of waiting for this game.
Biggest red flags for me have always been the marketing hype around patch numbers. Like what does 4.0 even mean? Why do they inject so much emotion into “four point oh”? It’s an update, game will still be a mess
I was trying to land my A2 at Port Tressler yesterday. The doors opened, and then closed. Then no more A2 and I am floating in space. Had to EVA to one of the outside landing pads... The groundbreaking thing will be when things like that stop happening.
"No one has ever run backwards blindfolded around the back of a ford transit van seven times on a thursday so you can't get mad at me that my attempt has taken 34 years!"
The star citizen defense.
BTW "server meshing" is being done in other games, right now. It aint the unicorn Chris Robert's Wife's Studio supplier makes it out to be.
I really dislike how youtubers, even obsidian ant etc, pretend that store citizen is bringing new things to the industry like for example server meshing
@@jh5kl The type of server meshing they are bringing is absolutely new, and never done before though.. The CURRENT server meshing we have in games is transferring stored data retroactively between servers.
What CIG is trying to do, is trade off that information in real time in a split second, and replicating everything in a nanosecond. Such as when we saw them shoot bullets across 3 servers. Nothing like that has ever been done before, and it is extremely advanced in comparison.
I'm kind of tired that people like you are pretending like that isn't a big deal.
Now whether or not CIG should have gone for that, is wasting money, time, and is utterly incompetent as developers regardless is an entirely different can of worms.
If you want my take on that.. yes, yes they are utterly incompetent, wasting time and money, and being lead by incompetent leads, and often use greasy tactics to sell ships by promising big new mechanics right around the corner, so you better buy this ship now! only to pull the rug and say "haha, well unfortunately the big reason we sold this ship, is no longer possible, we'll shelve that for now for another 5 years and nerf the ship into the ground with a bunch of bugs oops!.. but hey look! another new mechanic with a new ship fit for it! pull out your wallets again!"
@@Cramblit Other games do that exact same thing. The New World, for example.
Just because Chris Roberts says something doesn't mean it's true. CiG have a financial interest to lie to you.
No. I dont want your take on that. Kind of tired of people like you displaying gulliblity and sunk-cost-fallacy while you fanboy for a crap conjob.
@@amalekedomite I didn't fanboy for a crap conjob if you actually read. Seems like you want to stay ignorant and stupid though, as you didn't even care to actually read anything I said (or you would of seen the part where I lay into CIG for being incompetent), or use any critical thinking skills..
And no New World doesn't do it... that's like comparing a company that develops toy rockets, and then looking at Elon Musk like "dude other companies are doing what you're trying to do, why can't you do it!?"
They aren't even in the same ballpark of what they're trying to do, despite on the surface, both of them making rockets.
The fact you don't understand this, is wild to me.
Seems you just want to stay ignorant though.
@@jh5kl They are financially motivated to do so. It's one of the reasons people getting paid by youtube ruined youtube.
I'm not gonna hold my breath to anything CIG says any longer. Great explanation, but a lot of us who've been waiting for soooo long it's a little disconcerting to just think this game will actually move beyond all the shit we've put up with the past few years they've been promising 4.0 and server meshing.
Don't know why people are shocked that a release is delayed... I'm more shocked at people being shocked than at the delay.
I told everyone in my community that they should not count on 4.0 being released this year.
Communication problemsa re ONE problem, but the biggest problem is the development time. 15-25 years is not feasible. There are customers in their 50's and 60's at the time of purchase who will sadly pass away before 1.0 releases.
I nearly died 2 years ago at my work place (still permanent damage).
People get through uni, marry, get children and see their children graduate high school in such a dev time. This is too much.
Edit: Too much optimism in the video.
Also hoping for the next thing after release of another thing is mostly because those things are still foundational basic things, not gimmicks. It is what help us not getting even more depressed.
at this rate I dont think anyone born at this time will see star citizen complete
My biggest frustration is the constant new ships without finishing the old ones. I get that new ship fund the game. But If you just get to 1.0 MVP you can release ships later with still charging a monthly fee. If 4.0 get pushed to 2025 and there is no SQ42 release date announcement at CitCon, then this game is in real trouble. Which is sad, because I have invested alot and I want this game to come out!
I'd rather they just sell new ships than move towards a subscription model
Imho they should never have needed ship funding. Never was it said in the begining/kickstarter that they would need constant influx of milions of dollars.
@@firestarter000001 so you just want Starfield. I don't see how we both get the game we want and also don't have ship sales. I have zero interest in what the original Kickstarter was, as the scope and scale of that game was much smaller, far less interesting, and far less appealing than what we are working towards now. CIG is doing phenomenal work, and I'll be here for it for the next thirty or so years
@@Venhili Not Starfield, but a much more alive, varied Elite Dangerous with Wing Commander feel would be great for me. The thing is its a pattern what they do, and imho it will never stop. The feature creep is beyond insane. And to finish a project, even a very ambitious one (or maybe especially) you need look at it realistcly at some point and cut stuff. Judging by what i see/hear i dont think they will be ready to realease Sc in 10 years time.
@@firestarter000001 buddy, it's not feature creep when they've been planned since 2015
Every year it is the same cycle.
Post Citizencon and Q4 : Hype and laughing at the "haters" because all the new features that will be released
Q1 of the next year : Some features are released, first signs of delays and new ships and events
Q2 : More delays and first signs of copium.
Q3 : silence on all fronts and the "waits for Citizencom" start to appear. People start to ask questions, lose hope again, etc ..
Citizencon : New promises, trailers, freatures, and the hype is built up again
Rince and repeat
I'm not frustrated.
I'm just disappointed in this year. All they do is talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk even more with basically nothing to deliver.
Half (if not more) of the features from "next 12 months" are not delivered, patches got split and delayed despite saying that everything goes well, Progress tracker was not updated for 8 months, Roadmap does not get update because "everything is on track (to be delayed lol)", Game is nowhere near completion it's a few systems band aided together that somehow work (or dont), and they dare to speak about 1.0. We have not even heard what will be third system or it was not shown to us for a while.
They have learned nothing and are doing Pyro 2016 again. but now with 1.0.
To make this game feel like a game, fixing bugs, revising every ship to bring it to "Gold Standard" they will have to stop development - no more content, no more ships, no more variants, no new systems/missions and it still would take a solid year or two and they cannot do that.
I understand that sometimes things don't go our way, but come on 12+ years and they still didn't learn to communicate.
Disappointment.
You sound pretty frustrated to me (as you should be).
You know my mom growing up would do a lot of morphine and literally start making dinner at 11am (thinking it was 11pm) and stay up until 11pm making dinner not really telling us when it'd be done and at the end she really did make an amazing 4 course dinner (when all we asked for was a sandwich) so honestly this "it'll be ready when it's ready" and almost no more conversation is pretty standard. Plus at the end of the wait I did get a 4 course meal out of it so was it worth it? Sorta
@@deezulboy Maybe its because when you read it all at once it sounds just bad? I have been testing 3.24 for like two months now and it does not even has features i have tested when it entered Evo phase, so yeah I went through being upset, annoyed and now i'm just simply disappointed, i expect nothing from them till end of the year anyway.
It's like surfing a wave. They can occasionally do cool tricks as long as the wave keeps coming. The wave can really never stop, but their experience should allow them to do more tricks with smaller waves. The issue is they keep falling off the wave and not doing any tricks, and there are lots of other riders who could hop on the board instead. We give waves to see tricks but we aren't seeing tricks so it's time to change riders
Can't wait to be bullshitted at during citizencon.
But at least I don't pay $200 for a front row ticket lol.
I don’t want them focusing on manually curated content… make game loops that bright players together either in coop or versus…. Thats the only kind of content that is lasting and evergreen
No one would have cared about the delay if MM didn't suck what little fun the game had out.
It was completely unnecessary and could have been handled a different way. It's clunky and feels fake. Nobody would design a craft like that. The physics engine and flight models need huge updates anyway, so I don't know why they got this bee in their bonnet about changing it right now.
@@Roboticus_Prime_RC I backed in 2014 and forgot the game existed until recently. Since I've only experienced MM, what was it like before it is now?
Please, y'all, give master modes a rest. It just needs tuning and Tomato is tired of seeing it. So am I frankly
MM isn't bad. People can't cope with changes. Let them work on it, people act like such Crack addicts
@@EmperorPenguu agreed
I know two things about CIG, they push gaming boundaries, and they are terrible timekeepers
My ship is totally gimped because of Master mode and the mass rebalancing of ships to their archetypes. It's not fun.
CiG implemented this very badly and we have no clue on how they will fix it. It's been months and they say 4.0 etc.
For a game that sells ships to fund itself, it's unacceptable.
I love how they though it trough... MM will work even when pretty much none of those ships are balanced, but we believe finger crossed with some tuning it will work ... so literaly they don't know.. they know as much as we know... that it doesn't work.. they just hope it will work.. that's not how systems are implemented, first make desing MM then test it if it works and not release it and hope somehow we will fine tune it on the go and with a miracle it will be ok.. .wtf... that's what pissing me off they literaly have no idea what they are doing and saying it's good...
Just you wait, you’ll soon have the ultra fun aspect of your ship catching fire and components breaking!! Sooo.. much… fun…
This game is screwed and it’s sad.
@@Pixelthekid if you think the chaos of that kind of situation isn't fun, then i don't know what to tell you lol that shit is gonna create some fun ass situations... at least for my friends and I
So now when my ship is on fire, I won't be as pissed when the server 30ks.
It's not that there's bad communication it's that there's a fundamental contradiction at the core of Star Citizen's development. They've never had any idea how long development would take and they've had to keep us strung along for the ride to maintain funding otherwise we'd never get there.
You’ve got an overloaded backend.
I do think most "players" do you want stability over everything else. Most players seem to be fine with just a second life type of experience. I could be wrong but I think most backers want the foundation built to prove that the game can even exist as sold.
When I saw how "ambitious" the 3.23 version was supposed to be back in the begining of the year, I knew that everything downstream would inevitably be delayed.
I have been hounded, and banned a first time in 2018, when I told there would be no chance of Pyro comming even in 2022, let alone in 2020. I've then been hounded by saying SQ42 would never come before 2025 at least (my opinion have changed now, for all the hype they tried and failed to gather from me at least, I now believe before 2027 is very unlikely). Then the famous CitCon 2023, I've been called all sort of name and basically told I should quit the game, for telling people to calm down, CIG is still the same, content will still come at a trickle, and while update are big, it only means we'll see more bugs and more delays. But man, hardcore fans of the project are nothing more than trash pandas hissing at anyone even commenting anything not full of praise on SC. They only know to say on repeat "it's alpha" and " no one have been doing what they do", since 12 years and counting, and for the next 10 at least remaining in this alpha cycle (in which the BMM still won't be delivered).
Maybe instead of dooming just sit back and watch the progress happen, it does not matter how long it takes
@@Venhili ROFL, how are those boots tasting? We've been siting back more than enough already, now the time has come to warn potential new players against trying SC before full release, which, given the buggy experience, has been much easier than anticipated. A small but worthy contribution. The less money CIG receives, the more pressed they'll be to give actual results, not whatever the shit they've been releasing in those last few years.
@@captainharlock3998 I think it's the opposite. The less money CIG receives, the more likely the project is to fail. It's not just your average game, and I don't want it to be an average game. I'm okay with it taking as long as it needs to, and I'm certainly not alone in that.
@@captainharlock3998 You are still just speculating about dates. Unlikely that you will find many people here who couldn't wait to pat you on the back for all that inspiring bitterness.
I definatly blame the PR, Marketing and Community team.
Not the devs.
I mean just look at ISC and Jared. how many times have he not said stuff there, that has biten him in the ass. 4.0 is one of those.
June /july he said, 4.0 is coming sooner then you think, hinting towards citizen con. Then a week later, it was before end of year.
They should just stop saying shit like this.
Honest assessment. CitizenCon will be interesting this year.
Well, 4.0 was promised last citizencon, and they failed miserably to deliver. We won’t see 4.0 Live smooth and running until summer 2025 probably. What the F are they going to try shoving down our throats this citizencon??? Are they thinking we’re buying any of their crap anymore??
“Ahem guys… remember those things we said lasts year? Yeah those things are on the way don’t worry, we also have all this hopes and dreams we’d like you to believe… also, don’t forget to purchase some of our good ol’ yet-to-be-out-of-white-box-concept ships, you’ll have fun!..A date? While we don’t have a date, we can say it will be out SOON(tm), when it’s ready. Hold the line.”
Pd. Sorry I’m not fluent in English
Honestly, I'd rather they cancel ALL community productions at this point. I would rather NO COMMUNICATION than constant promises and gaslighting about delays. CIG needs to shut their fucking mouth at this point and deliver what they deliver when they do.
Been here since the start. It’s not just lack of progress, or missing vague altered targets, it’s that last year when they started taking about this year I knew it was the usual “don’t think this year.. look shiny shiny next year” while still continuing the tired FOMO marketing.
I’m sick of it. I have been for five years now.
Sorry but to a degree I do blame the devs, they are stepping up year on year to publicly push the narrative, they are part of the FOMO machine, stop making excuses, start asking for results.
Some of these streamers wont do that bc they hold out hope that CIG will pull them into the fold in some sort of capacity.
@@mayoluck very true
With all of this, always keep one thing in mind: I've recently shown SC to someone who'd never even heard about it at all. Just as it is. Waking up, station interior, hangar, ships, transition to city, around the city, back up into space, and doing missions. And all the small gameplay elements that come along with these things, including quite a few bugs, very fundamental things breaking (inventory itself), and needing to work around issues, and janky looking stuff.
We tend to be blind to what's already here, since we've seen most or all of it ourselves by now, and are just used to it. But to new people, even the current state is MAGICAL and the premise of getting even more over the years exhilarating. Despite all the jank on full display, I had to stop them from from immediately purchasing their way in, suggesting they'd at least wait for one of the free fly events to both try, and see SC at one of its lowest points under all the load before doing that.
And honestly - I feel the same. Always did. Still do. I still get lost in that magic feeling, which the game's current state and content can and does already give, but no other does. Would I like more, and stability? Oh definitely. But I'm still having an absolute blast every time I play, with or without new content when I do. I usually drop out for a few months, then back in for a few months at a time, been cycling like that for years now, and am always looking forward to it. I find that the most enjoyment comes out of just "rolling with it" when stuff goes wrong, and trying to minimize potential huge losses as much as possible from the start to not get too bummed out when it does go sideways. And yet, I've had so many movie-esque stories unfold with me at the center already, only possible here.
All that said, I fully expect 4.0 being an unplayable mess for quite a while. Which is why I'm getting most of my fix again right now. =)
I'm starting to feel the same about SC as I did with ED after Odyssey.
as a kid and a fan of sci fi, I always looked forward to the future when there would be a full space simulator video game. I was 28 when SC was first announced and it had all the promise and potential of fulfilling that dream. but now, the less I think about this game, the less I feel let down and disappointed. I bought into SC 3 years ago, installed it and played it for a couple of hours then uninstalled. it was nowhere near finished then, and it's nowhere near finished now. at the rate they are going, I'll be surprised if SQ42 launches in 2026, and pretty sure the rest of the game won't launch before 2030 (I really hope I'm wrong). I'm 40 now, and the game is STILL IN ALPHA. it's just so sad that they can't seem to get their shit together.
Great video, i appreciated the referencing of previous release cycle outcomes.
Called this back in last October and everyone spewed vitriol at me for daring to say it. 11 years as a backer you start to understand you need to add 4 months to every target CIG tries to hit
Last years Citcon showed so obviously that they have nothing but unrealistic promises as usual, can't believe most everyone bought it.
SC is falling apart and unfortunately good RUclipsrs may have to find a new topic
I dont care about more star systems. I want gameplay. Why does it matter if they have 5 systems if theres nothing to do in them. I was playing the other night with my brother and we were stuck on a mission. We both decided to quit because it didn't mean anything if we completed it.
Because their priority should be optimizing and moving forwards, not just ships
at this point they probably have 50 people making new ships out of the 1000+ that work there. Back when they had 400 employees 12 made new ships. They also lost a lot of their good vet ship builders to poaching so that set them back as well. And there's no point in optimizing an unfinished product.
@@ccgod well that's the point of moving forwards genius, so that development progresses
@MuchCow9000 except development has always progressed. People act like 80% of employees just make ships. The game is not going to receive serious optimization until after server meshing and sq42 come out.
@@ccgod so your saying not making ships would progress things faster...I'm so glad you caught on
@MuchCow9000 no I'm saying they have people who only work on ships and they have the rest of the people coding and making other stuff. The new ship crew is meaningless in the big picture to get the game done faster.
You're not catching on to anything ur just dumb for thinking the ship people have an effect on the speed of development on things that don't involve them.
We won't see 4.0 until 2025 - there's no way they will hit Q4. Too many holidays, too many excuses to be made.
my guess is citcon 2025 is the 4.0 patch and IAE will be near the jump point station somehow. That may be difficult unless they can set it as a new player home station though. We will get a 3.25 patch end of first quarter 2025.
Communication is the least of the issues at CIG, the problem is they have very low standards of quality and don’t seem to care about the work they do.
Half the stuff released is so poorly coded and made I really don’t know how they find it acceptable to release, I strongly believe that SQ42 will be a flop that kills the game.
CIG will be a case study on what happens when you put someone who’s not qualified or has the temperament to run a company and project of this scale.
(This is coming from a bitter backer who has put over 10k into the game)
"Half the stuff released is so poorly coded" how do you know its poorly coded? are you a dev?
@@anno-fw7xnHave you played the game? It’s full of bugs that are from rushed out development and shortcuts being taken.
Given the length of time between patches and the poor quality you really have to ask what they are actually doing, I wanted it to succeed but it is now a sinking ship.
@@Frizzings yes i did and i playd it back in 3.0 and i think i know more about game dev than you that not a lot.
this game is a lot more stabel than back than. But lets go for one factore perfomance, i bett on the CIG used maschines it a lot better.
Also I had ptu build how were great unitel a lot of people joind.
you can only test you code with a dev team or even ptu with has many person.
All modern games have bug at lunch becueses some stuff you only see wenn 10000 people play somthing.
What kills me is that they make money selling ships, you buy said ships for said roles, like the ion being a capital ship killer. Then they release master mode and literally ruined all the ships I purchased!
The tone and delivery of this video is possibly the best balanced explanation of the apparent 4.0 delay that has been presented to the SC community so far. Great job @spaceTomato
I'm scared by this amount of cope... why everyone believes that server meshing will help with performance? why?
atm 1 server per star system. first implementation will be 1 server for pyro + 1 server for stanton. NOTHING WILL CHANGE WUTH SERVER MESHING!
You may argue: wait till multiple servers per solar system! But guess what? they can do it already according to tests, but they're not doing it. And from tests - no performance improvement
It can be frustrating for sure, and it’s 100% on CIG for setting expectations, but also we all need to manage our own expectations.
One of biggest reason is that even for content we have the servers suck ass most of the time. Even calling a lift is a test of patience.
Now that 3.24 has been released, I’m just a touch more optimistic for 4.0 PTU before April 2025
3.24 is a broken mess of garbage, it does not function, hauling does not function.
@@seanorourke1601 I don’t know how many incredibly rude, immature posts there were in Spectrum yelling at the developers (they do read those) to hurry up and release 3.24 already, yada yada yada.
I hope everyone is enjoying their rushed patch.
I did not expect that much in terms of 4.0 delivery, but I am disappointed with the frustrating year. Only around 50 percent of things that were slated for delivery this year at CC23 have been implemented, and we've only had a patch and a half for the entire year - that's what makes it difficult to deal with the fact that not only did 4.0 get booted into Q4, but there's a good chance Pyro and/or SM will not arrive this year.
"Only if it's running well" is the thing people should be saying louder when others think about buying a ship.
I feel lucky I only spent a few months of my life with this game. I couldn't even begin to possibly imagine what it must be like for someone that has been eating their BS for 10 years.
It's been 14 years, not 10 😭
@@kennyknapp5531 It absolutely has NOT been 14 years
I mean, if you're that emotionally invested in a game, where it's progress can effect you to a degree that you describe it like a marriage, you should probably get a new hobby.
That said, I love the game. I take breaks while waiting for updates. But the game offers things no other game does or maybe even can. I have thousands of hours in it and I'll continue to play. Just because Pyro gets pushed a few months, it doesn't mean that I suddenly hate the game and want all of my money back.
@@buzzfightbeer8023 pre production started in 2010 production started in 2011 that 14 years unless you can't math
@@buzzfightbeer8023 pre development 2010 (14 years) development 2011 (13 years)
As a back-end developer with 20+ years on the clock, I confess that server meshing is a task of monumental complexity both -- mathematical and implementational. On top of that, it heavily depends on the set of allowed client actions and expected servers' reactions -- any change in the latter may (and most likely will) require deep changes in the server meshing layer. This is why I don’t expect a working version of SM in 2024 or even in 2025. The gameplay must be defined and delivered first, and only then can SM be done properly.
Man, bringing up the supercut was spot-on.
CIG comms seem to get more and more offended when backers are disappointed when expectations aren't met by claiming those expectations were unfounded, or leaning on the "we're hoping for" and "we're targeting" statements. After all these years missing like 90% of public dates, they still make these statements and generate a bunch of hype.
With respect to the developers actually making the game, their comms needs to do some soul-searching on whether they think it's more important to overhype and sell ships, or build a decent reputation in the industry. Eventually, their existing reputation is going to catch up with them. Maybe it's this year, maybe it's next year. Maybe it takes even longer (consumers, am I right?), but this carrot cannot be strung for many more years.
TBH if they switched it up and took an honest stance with reasonable expectations, they could build that reputation back with some time. But seeing as I've seen nothing change in the last 8 years since I backed, I'm not counting on it.
So if CIG isn't going to set my expectations appropriately, I'll do it myself: I don't expect 4.0 live this year, and I don't expect 4.0 to magically fix the game, either.
A LOT of the problems we are experiencing now are just repeat problems from 3.18. It is clear that bandaids were placed on all issues from 3.18 and now with 3.24 and the amount of stuff added made all those festering wounds reopen. Now I am hoping that seeing this they will be more inclined to find a permanent solution to these bugs so that future patches may be met with more stability. But in all honesty this year we have received more updates and game features than we ever have before so at least there is that
Here's the big question... with all of Jared's telling the community that 4.0 has been working on while 3.24 is fixed.... why is 4.0 not in Evo? Kinda makes him look like he was either lying... or there are really big problems with Server Meshing. It SHOULD be in Evo right now to release at Q4, it is not going to be an easy release.
Hardly a novel observation, but this game is such an abusive relationship.
Curious to see if you will still feel the same in 5 years, after 5 years of more of the same. Will you still be so supportive? I was you, back in 2017, and 2018, and 2019 and then going to Citcon in 2019, hearing the promises, and then watching it all fall apart over several years, by 2022 I was completely done with believing a single word anyone says about SC, including you.
4.1 and 4.2 over the next half year? That's hilariously optimistic. There's no way something as big as server meshing gets through PTU in less than 6 months. We'll be lucky to get 4.0 in Live before Dec 2025.
We all know that many bugs and many months of testing will happen on the initial evo release of 4.0. No doubt at all
I think the biggest things people miss is that comparing 4.0 to 3.18 is fundamentally flawed. BUT, that requires having followed and having a good understanding of the development of Server Meshing and PES. We are getting Static Server Meshing, not Dynamic. It is a very simplified version of the overall vision, and despite what you might think, is not nearly the fundamental change that PES is, and CIG have explained why numerous times (8 entirely new backend services all at once, the "big bang approach" as they've called it, vs essentially one). Couple that with the fact that we have test Server Meshing and the Jump Point transitions, that CIG have said that it went far better than expected, that 4.0 development has continued while 3.24 languished in PTU, and that they didn't push 4.0 to Q4 until just last week when they could have delayed it at any time during that period but continued to say that they're targeting a release for well before the end of the year.
It is simply an issue of not continuing to evaluate the evidence presented in order to manage expectations. If 3.24 has taken a month or two longer than anticipated, which it has and is documented as such, that doesn't in any way suggest that the release window for 4.0 magically extends 6 months of more. Don't let your emotions force you into making flawed comparisons people.
The rule of managing client expectations in IT, under promise and over deliver and all this on time! That makes the happiest clients!
Great perspectives. I appreciate the use of mostly empathetic narratives more than statements resembling personal opinions.
I almost skipped this video because I was thinking "why do I need tomato to explain to me why I'm flustered?"
And then I watched it anyway.
who needs more features if the SERVERS ARE SH!T?? Input lag, desync and rubberbanding is the real problem why I have quit playing
No depth or connection between assassination, bounty hunting, mercenary, pirate, xeno hunting, infiltration, exobiology, exploring, mining, salvaging, smuggling, trading, courier, passenger carrier, search and rescue....there's already a game out there that does these and no progress resets!
The frustration will go on for as long as there is expectation for polished gameplay and deep content from a game that's in alpha stage.
I just want SQ42. Thats what i signed up for way back at the original kickstarter. I havent played SC since 3.18. I have basically given up. Im not playing or spending another penny until SQ42 comes out.