A solid-state replacement for a magic eye
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- I have made a replacement for a 6E5, 6U5, 1629, 6X6 etc.. tuning eye, tuning indicator, magic eye, electron ray tube. It uses a circular array of green LEDs to approximate the look of the original tube. It fits in the original tube's space and can be installed without modification to the radio. I have also done a 6T5 version for Zenith fans. (see • A Solid State Replacem... ) Unpopulated circuit boards for both are available. See rabjohn.ca/gord/ss6e5 for details.
Have you thought about adding a half-step of brightness? It will give it a more analog, gradual look.
The problem is, there is no ready made "bargraph chip" for that functionality, so you would need to design it from discrete transistors (that may allow to supply the LEDs in series from the B+, so also work in circuits with filament supply at some weird potential). A solution also could be to use an MCU with an ADC and do these effects in the firmware, but then there is the complexity of writing the firmware. Either way it would make the project way more complicated and even becoming out of reach for many people looking for such replacements.
@@annaplojharova1400 I did it with the LM3914 and LM3915 bargraph chips back in the late '70s when I was in high school. I had my first car wired up like a spaceship, with bargraphs that would smoothly shade from one LED to the next. It just took an Op Amp generating a sawtooth. This would PWM an LED gradually from 0 to 100% as the signal rose.
Now, if you use a microcontroller, you just use PWM to shade one LED to the next.
@@AlienRelics I agree, I think it even does not have to be exactly triangular. Heck even the 50/60Hz sinewave from the heater circuit, superimposed via some resistor would do the job...
@Anna Plojharová the more it departs from a linear triangle or sawtooth, the less linear it is between LED steps. If you use a square wave at the correct level, you can get distinct half-steps.
@@AlienRelics Yes, it is not that perfect, but unlike the sawtooth, the sine is readily available at the socket, with just one single extra resistor to couple it in. Yet giving still better effect than "just two levels" of the rectangle. In fact I would bet, you would not see any difference between the sinewave vs real triangle, unless both running really directly side-by-side to each other.
I would like to say how impressed i am with your magic eye replacement the skill and quality of your work is very high ive been in electronics since the 70's and its rare to find someone still commited to solving an old problem with a new idea thank you for sharing
How much would someone pay for a refurbished magic eye? How rare are they getting? Im going to get into glass blowing somehow, I’m wondering if it might be a viable business along with other scientific glass
Given the choice, I'd want a real magic eye... but... like you say, we don't really have that choice any more... and this looks like a pretty good substitute.
Thanks for your work on this! We really need magic eye replacement tubes and this is a HUGE step in just the right direction.
This is absolutely delightful. Just no better way to say it. Knowing folks are out there keeping these types of experiences accessable makes my day!
Great job. The implementation and the final result are quite impressive. Definitely simpler than solutions based on LCD's. Analog solutions are always better to be used in radio applications.
Why is analog better? I Feel like you could achieve higher resolution with an LCD, if you could get a circular one
@@SpaghettiEnterprises - RFI from digital controllers... noise
@@KlodFather but this bargraph just has so much less resolution than an LCD would, and an LCD is already far inferior to the original.
And that tiny indistinguishable from thermal noise amount of noise?
@@ABaumstumpf ig its about the look and feel, first thing its kinda hard to find that small circular lcd's, and leds tend to look much nicer, for example im working on a led pixel art display and individual leds just look way nicer then having a display
@@ShahZahid true - most displays you can buy are not that bright, and good ones are readily available but they cost a pretty penny. but for this application where they are used as a display-device to finetune a system i'd rather have 10x resolution and more faded colors (i mean the tubes also have rather pale colors so wouldnt even look that out of place).
Fabulous! The real genius of you design is how simple it is and yet is still a drop-in replacement for the original!
Looks pretty good. We had one of these in a hi-fi when I was a kid. I was very cool. And I loved the deep hush the hi-fi made while the tubes were warming up.
I have since made a 6T5 replacement as well. Details for both the 6U5 and 6T5 projects are on the project web site rabjohn.ca/gord/ss6e5/ . Unpopulated circuit boards are available.
Thanks for the excellent solution to the lack of supply of these rare magic eye tubes. 👍👍
It would be interesting to try blue LEDs and a diffuser with green phosphor.
or UV LED
UV light is cool, but is harmful for the eyes.
I think you mean UV LEDs and a green phosphor.
This is a very cool implementation. I don't have anything to use it on right now, but I will definitely keep it in mind.
Love it. I wonder if you could improve the sharpness with a custom radial lenticular lens under the diffuser. The only thing will be a more obvious jump from one level to the next.
Another thought is to use an oiled screen rather than discrete leds. I wonder if there are any watch screens small enough.
Ywahhh OLED.s
Nice! I have an old Grundig radio that uses one of these tubes as its tuning display. I had the radio refurbished several years ago and I recall that the gentleman who did it for me let me know that the tube would be quite expensive to acquire. I bought an extra to hold in reserve.
Very nice work. If I was so motivated, I might have tried your clever project - but I'm driven by bucks, so no.. Anyway, I would try picking up a scrap Samsung QLED TV and see if the embedded "quantum dots" in the diffuser sheets between the display and the LED back light might work giving you a better black in the unlit areas of your eye. The LEDs themselves would need to be native blue. If that works - you're welcome. If not, well, you get what you pay for!! 😆
Nice work. Too bad it's not available for purchase..
Gord, this is cool stuff. You were just posted on YT in an electronics group. Thanks for sharing!
I had a multi-band receiver with a tuning eye. I got it at a hamfest when floppy disks were a thing. I was about 18 I think. I decided to set up a quarter wave antenna by stringing a wire around my room. When I was ready, I didn't have a PL259 connector, so I just coiled up a bit of the single-strand wire and shoved it into the antenna port. I shocked the living crap out of myself. That cured me of operating equipment with vacuum tubes that operate at ridiculous voltages. But I do miss the tuning eye!
My tuning eye was quite blue, maybe closer to blue than to green.
This video reminds me of a question/thought/idea I had years ago. I will pass it on to you as you seem to have the skills. Why not make solid-state work-alike plug-in replacements for as many tubes as possible? This would allow people to resurrect those lovely old tube radios.
Next step: Replace them with low-voltage look-alikes and replace the dangerous 2000V transformer with a 12-volt transformer. Looks and works the same but MUCH safer! Just add a burning-dust-smell emitter. lol
That was being done when I was a boy back in the '70s. The output stages were the problem. Lower voltage means a LOT more current to get the same power. High voltage, high current transistors were not common, and expensive.
Instead of LED's why not use a green Oled display? You would not need a diffuser at that point. Using a green Oled display would offer an almost identical visual representation of the original part.
do you have any idea how expensive a custom oled display would be? it's not exactly something you can make at home like an array of LEDs.
Pure, pure ingenious circuit! I remember as a kid, seeing these on Grundig, Telefunkin, and I think Blaupunkt German SW radios. Very well done! Would look good on my old Hallicrafter
SX99 receiver. Just wonderful.
Technology of this magic eyes not seems like rocket science. Not much more complicated than nixie tubes, that some enthusiasts make. Why nobody make custom magic eyes?
Great, but what we Really need is newly manufactured fluorescent indicator tubes.
Someone should get on with that endeavour.
I'm not from this space of radio gear usually, but was drawn by that great comparison shot at the end. If you're still thinking of a diffusion layer, a pair of thin foggy bits of acrylic with a small space (5mm?) in between should smooth out the light even more.
very good but nothing better than the original Regards
Great project! I know everybody has an opinion, but since you said the diffuser was still a work in progress.... Sooo... I wonder if the diffuser could be a translucent material with a but of glow in the dark capabilities? Perhaps the use of UV leds shining through the diffuser to color shift the magic eye. I painted something once with glow in the dark spray paint and hit it with UV leds and it gave that same greenish magic eye glow
Your UV led idea has merits. The afterglow time could be an issue though. I wonder if the phosphorous used in tv tubes reacts at all to UV, it does react to strong flashlights with afterglow times under a second.
@@juslitor there are UV reactive pigments tuned to specific UV depths. However, paper and yellow highlighter should fluoresce well and give no persistency.
2:26 Watching this schematics I have noticed that it matters which of the 2 filament connectors in the socket (1 or 6) is connected to the ground in that particular radio or amplifier in which the replacement is going to be used because the pin marked as 6U5-Vfil has to land in the connector that is supplying 6.3V AC and not in the ground connector.
Good observation. However, the most recent version has a fully differential input. See rabjohn.ca/data/documents/6E5_Composite_Schematic_V2.jpg . The preferred connection would be to have Vfil_Cold go to ground and Vfil_Hot go to 6.3V. In this case, there would be no common mode voltage on Grid and Cathode. However, if Vfil_Hot and Vfil_Cold are reversed, (the rectifier diode is grounded and the "ground" is at 6.3VAC), everything will still work because the Grid and Cathode input is fully differential. There will be 6.3VAC common mode voltage (wrt to the "ground", say pin 2 of the IC) into these pins, but the differential input rejects this common mode voltage. This is an important feature if you want to use the SS6E5 in radios that ground the centre tap of the 6.3V filament winding, because they have 3VAC of common mode voltage into Grid and Cathode.
Doesn't look as cool
But it's the best I've seen!
I love this alot, I have been looking into finding a modern magic eye replacement.
Nice, intricate work! Also, thanks for introducing me to the LM3915. In the past, I'd used a ladder of resistors and comparators to get that effect.
I did a display using the LM part years ago. One addition was to add a bit of 60Hz hum to the IN signal, just enough to blur (turn on the adjacent LEDs. It made the transitions between LEDs smooth and would perhaps eliminate the need for a diffuser. Since this is a tube replacement, the 60Hz before rectification can be tapped for the necessary signal- with a one wire and resistor addition.
Exactly.
What a brilliant idea! I'm sure there will be many thinking "why didn't I think of it first?"
And since it's l.e.d.s inside, there's no reason why one shouldn't just use a plastic transparent tube for the housing. A brand new octal base can be had from various sources. A different style base would engage some minor d.i.y. - taking all the necessary high voltage safe design principles into consideration of course.
все таки старые лампы смотрятся по другому
What about UV leds and phosphor paint?
You can use yellow highlighter
Very cool. Simple implementation of common chips too. Great job.
There were several requests to look at adding dithering to make the transitions seem smoother. This is quite easy to do: I added a 20pF capacitor between pin 3 of the LM358 and the FilH pin. This adds 60Hz (or 50Hz) "hum" which is effectively dither. The result is a smoother display, for sure, and is not difficult to add. Note that it will inject some hum back into the host radio, but I do not expect this to be a problem most of the time.
This is so cool. I aspire to make cool retrofit projects like this :)
Very nicely done.... IMHO The bare LED's look great. I love the fusion old and new technology as an art form.
That's great. I think the issue is that the 3915 is now obsolete and very difficult to find 😕
Looks good! Another option would be an round 1.18" OLED display and a microcontroller.
Now I wonder what our old Telefunken Concertino used. Rather than a circular display on the top of the tube, the Telefunken had a vertical tuning display with bars coming from both the top and bottom. I could probably look at the one in the radio, but I'm hesitant to try and work on *anything* in the radio now (I don't think it's been turned on in 25-30 years, and from watching Mr Carlson's Lab I know it peobably is full of bad capacitors by now)
That would be an EM84 or EM87 tube
@@gordrabjohn7039 EM84 was used in early audio tape recorders as recording level meter. All electronics was also made with vacuum tubes - one ECC88 (as preamp) and one ECL86 (as power amplifier).
Would be interesting to see if there is a small round amoled display for smart watches or something similar that would fit this use case.
There are circular colour LCD screens made for smartwatches and similar gadgets which might do this job though I doubt they're close to the brightness of this. Finding one that doesn't have a tab at the bottom edge of the screen seems to be a challenge.
Can you get ahold of a smart-watch display? I'm guessing you could fit a pi zero or some such and program it with all kinds of crazy display mimicry, with any color you like! Make the outer shell be the top of a pushbutton to switch between different modes. Numeric, magic eye, or a different kind of magic eye, or cycle between modes. You can do a lot with a single pushbutton.
Maybe a circular OLED display would be a better idea..? It's more complicated than normal Leds, but it offers much better resolution
Maby an MCP6002 could be a better op amp as lm358 direct replacement. Higher input impedance and much less input current leak. An rail to rail output
Could an even more analog look be achieved by using a pair of Lm3915 , as parallel current sources to each led , it might simplify the diffuser issue . With a scale offset between the two chips, you could achieve a half step brightness for that more analogue visual effect , without having to alter the LED array board or header .
Just spitballing a suggestion . Gotta take my hat off to you for this device , magic eyes are heading towards chicken's teeth rarity and demanding a commensurate price , so it's great to have a viable alternative.
That's amazing. I hope Mr Carlson's Lab checks out your video.
It's a good option. Not smooth as tube but still usable. Thanks for showing this work.
Amazing. please give update whatever you have like this. Thank you so much.
3915 still a thing after sooooo many years
The choice of material for the diffuser might improve the quality of the diffraction. Trying different plastic parents might produce better results.
why would you want a solid state replacement? Magic eye tubes were amazing for how they worked and were astoundingly sensitive.
Gord, where did you find this transparent plastic cover that covers the circuit? What did you remove it from?
It is actually glass, taken from a dead 6U5. I carefully cut the glass at the base.
Your voice sounds a little like the actor from 24. keifer sulivan or whatever hahaha. Great project but.
What is you used leds projecting from above on a concave brushed aluminium mirror? Less leds ofcourse, but no need for a diffuser.
Eh, I appreciate the effort to modernize older tech to keep it running with a cheaper cost, but I can't deny that I prefer the look of the original magic eye.
Давно мечтал собрать радиолампы с различными блоками внутри, усилитель, fm радио, mp3, и собрать из них ретро радио. И самое интересное, флешку в форме радио лампы!)) Ех, то времени не хватает, то денег , а теперь ещё и война...
Such a missed opportunity. They could have added leds to sell it as a gaming demagnetizer too.
Nice - i heard about magic ete here for the very first time i think - were was it used earlier? is it just a kind of percentage "graph" bar?
Its always the low quality videos that are amazing
Really a shame that you can't get vacuum tubes anymore, it's so expensive to fit the same look and asthetic
Nice, just not as crisp as an original.
Where is the glowing filament? It was the magic of the combination of green and the color of the glow that fascinated.
Don't the discrete steps completely defeat the purpose of an analog tuner display?
Back in the 60s we had a console stereo, we always called it " the cat's eye "
Great idea.
Great job and implementation.
I can't wait till they make contact lenses that emit light !! ,. Zith Aura Roth.
0:15 looks like the thing from the matrix movie when they take that bug machine thing out of neos stomach
Beautiful work.
wondering if a servo would give more precision
Wow, very cool! Op amps confuse the hell out of me.
Very cool and you sound like Jeff Goldblum.
Amazing ! ... compared with how ( VERY simple ) the circuitry is for the vacuum tube , also the green is more pleasant with the LED version , but I will stick with my vacuum tube ! ....... DAVE™ ..............
What are these magic eyes used from nowdays?
I don't think the diffuser is the way to go here. Either a prismatic lens made of a suitable plastic should be moulded or some kind of prismatic reflector. In the latter case the l.e.d.s would need to be arranged vertically. Ideally a combination of prismatic light guides with a reflective back would be the preferred method.
When posting the above, obviously the slight issue of having to find a cylindrical board on which to solder the diodes on, in the inner surface no less, might be a show stopper. Having realised this, can diodes be ordered soldered on a metal sheet such as those found in light bulbs? Can that sheet then be safely bent to form a cylinder?
I don't know anything about this thing, but it looks cool!
Steve, amazing... not even a processor is needed...
Very Nice Work. I have a New in Box, Magic Eye, wanted to put it to use someday. Repaired TV/Electronics since the 70's. Was more into Guitar Electronics, I used Op Amps. I Used 2 9 Volt Batteries. Plus and a minus tied to each other made ground, then you would have 9 Volts Positive and a Negative 9 volts. Great for Filters and Clean Amplification from Common Mode Rejection.
Good work. Leaving a Thumbs up.
Stratmando
Well done. Quite a good replacement.
Как ни странно, оригинал лучше; оригинал намного лучше.
Dunno what magic eye is but damn the analog version looks so cool. Maybe some dithering techniques could further smoothen out the SSD one. 🤔
Старинный ламповый индикатор.
how can i get this product ?
The eye, which is a green type of tube...
i was wondering in using a circular oled for this
Unfortunately It didint match a real one
These and Nixie tubes. Love 'em.
Very clever. I have a 1937 Philco console radio that has a magic eye tuner.
I dont understand why you just wouldn't have someone make new analog tubes like the old one. It's not like you can't, it's just not cheap.
Great work, but still gives me an appreciating of the beauty of continuous analog technology. I also wonder if the LED version would appear smoother, if you would dim the LEDs on the edge before turning full on or off.
I want to hate .. but it's the nicest and most refined one of these I've seen with the diffuser. Nice work.
I built a set of 'nonsense' instruments for my bus (just for the sake of fancy lights) .. Throttle position with a 6E5, and a barely proportional 'wheels go round' indicator with a decatron. I would use one of these for that, and I might even line them up across the cluster .. but no matter how good you eventually get this to look - too much of a snob purist to ever put it in a full tube circuit.
Don't they sell round tiny oled screens?
Nice replacement. If anything, I would love to use both. But that's how I always am, I like using all technology.
As a collector of antique radios I would love to be able to Purchase one. These are really beautiful. I see the schematics but every time I work with IC Chips I screw up something.
WTF is a "Magic Eye"?
With the defuser Yes. Leds by them selves no. I would like these for VU meters instead of plain LEDs and actual meters I had a tape recorder that had manic eye but not cats eye type .it was newer . Concord made tape recorders with magic eyes. 73
холодный транзисторный свет )
Very good.👍😂💯💖⛄🗿
Nah. The tuning indicators are so cool. I'm hoping someone starts building them!
Whats the point of this? Whats it for?