You're out of your mind, Chris. I love ya but you're tripping my brother. John would be top 3 if not #1. And Prime John is definitely not 80's and 90's. That's the fastest John but not the best. John Breznk's Prime is 2008-2009. I don't understand how you can say any of this when John destroyed Prime Dennis twice and many people believe that Dennis would defeat Levan. John destroys Ermes. John destroys Gennady. John already destroyed Dave. John destroys Georgi. Morozov isn't even worthy to be at the table with John. Same with Revaz. He's already defeated Jerry multiple times. More than half the people on the current top ten were already defeated by an 80% John Breznk. Prime John Breznk is also beating Devon now. The only question is could he have defeated Levan and the answer is yes. John beat Cleve Dean easily who was like the Levan of that era. You can't call him the GOAT if you believe someone else would beat him at his best. Levan ain't going on a 25 yr win streak so yeah. Prime John Breznk beats everyone in todays super heavyweight and heavyweight classes.
Next time you tell someone they're out of their mind, at least get your facts straight. John never pulled prime Denis. John beat him twice in the 2008 Zloty Tur (5 weeks after getting swept by Devon at Arm Wars) and 5-1 in a supermatch in 2009. Then he got crushed by Denis in 2010. That was years before Denis's peak; he was strongest overall in 2013-2014 and in his best armwrestling shape in 2018. I'm not guessing at this - he's the one who said it based on his performance in the gym and sparring. Next, many people think Denis would beat Levan. Well, many people also think the world is flat. Nobody in their right mind believes prime Denis would beat Levan. He would've beaten Levan sometime prior to Levan winning the Zloty Tur perhaps, but after that Levan became too much. He was much more dominant than Denis. Next, when John beat Dave he only won because Dave was terribly worn out from his 3 rounds with Denis in the tournament round before he ran into John; John was much fresher and he has said himself that that's the only reason he beat Dave that day. Even then, John was an inch from getting pinned by Dave - it's ludicrous that you can look at their match and say John "destroyed" Dave. I already said prime John would beat Dave anyway but that match is not representative of either man's best shape. Georgi, Morozov, and Revaz are all speculation but I also said I favored John in all three matches. Jerry and John pulled each other in some of their best years and traded wins; I put John ahead of Jerry. As for Levan..... if even Engin Terzi, hands-down John's biggest worshiper thinks John can't beat Levan, I don't know why you think he could or what evidence you could produce that suggests he would. John's a mortal man. John's the best light-heavyweight ever and the GOAT because of the combination of his level and longevity. He doesn't have to have the highest peak to be the GOAT and if you think he did then you're the one who is out of his mind. Good day.
Lol ..man I love John as much as anyone but I don't think he'd beat Levan..are you taking John as he was or translating him to the "modern" era with rigorous training off the table and heavy PED usage ?
@@ChrisDrummondAW Chris, are we making an "as is" comparison or considering John in his physical prime with the current training methods that emphasize strength and a "whatever it takes" approach to roids etc ?
@@FlornmonkI couldn't see John winning that match, but your example was brilliant, now I can imagine how John could have bested the terminator with superior hand and table IQ.
This is an interesting question to speculate about. Here are a few of my thoughts: I have followed armwrestling for a long time, and I have never seen John look more physically impressive than he did at the Mohegan sun PAC event in 2006. He was a chiseled 235 lbs. I think that that version of John could've contended with many of the current best super heavies. There are multiple lines of evidence for this, but to mention just a few: Travis recently said that he(Travis) reached his peak in 2006 and that John in Japan that year was the strongest puller he had ever faced. This is a quite remarkable statement, since Travis defeated Dave and Jerry convincingly at the WAL finals in 2016, and there is little doubt that Dave was in much better shape back then than he has been in recent years. Another thing to consider is Farid's recent perfomances against pullers like Vitaly and Zaur etc. According to Engin and Farid himself, Farid is not the guy he was in 2006, and he still beat and gave trouble some of the strongest pullers of today, and I'm sure you know what John did to Farid in 2006. When Raimond Leipins interviewed Farid on the VOA channel a few years ago, he asked Farid who was stronger between Pushkar and John(2006 version) and his answer was "John", and remember that Farid pulled Pushkar multiple times in 2010-2015 when Pushkar was arguably at his zenith.
2006 also when John literally toyed with Farid Usmanov in Vegas. That was nuts. He could beat him in 2 seconds with a top roll. But instead played with Farid in a straight up Hook match. Which was Farid’s strongest style. Just so that it would be competitive. And not boring
John spent most of his career when the sport was more of a hobby than a profession ..it didn't offer incentives like it does today but he was always a class apart..pulling multiple classes and often winning when most others didn't even try that..those who did sometimes didn't place in any category..can you imagine John having the ability to be a full time arm wrestler like Devon ? he NEVER had that..he was fighting in tournaments for as low as 1000 bucks as late as 2004..he was on TRT after 40 but the incentives weren't anywhere near as good to justify becoming a walkin chemical factory like Levan..or to engage in rigorous training off the table for specific aspects..the sport changed around the mid 2000s as the money became significant and a new breed of modern arm wrestlers came on the scene..how did John do against them ? he won a bunch of titles at Zlotys along with 3 in the OPEN category even though it was towards the end of his career..his shoulder was becoming a frequent, terrible prob for which he had surgery in 2011 and was never quite the same after that.. People who think he wouldn't do well against super heavyweights today don't have a clue..put prime John in today's context and he would kick serious ass..what do you think he lacked ? skills, table IQ, genetics ? not a damn thing..he had every attribute in spades.. there's a reason someone as knowledgeable as Engin reckons 2006 John would rank very high in today's sport.. give him all the advantages that guys have today and it's not even much of a question
this is with John doing all that guys do today, right ? It's more of a strength sport now than it used to be..so, he'd have to do quite a bit of work off the table like almost everyone else..if he had the same advantages then it's hard to see him not doing well
@@dodumichalcevskinewer fans trash him saying he wouldn't stand a chance against SHWs today but can't point to much that he lacked to be competitive against the best..
The thing with John is... He was always stronger than what he needed to be back in the days...He didn't try to push his limits... Just imagine if there was a Levan to challenge him... We would have a different John in that lean 90 kg guy... 🙏🏻
I see a new video, I instantly like it. Just subscribed after your Devon prediction video. Wish I’d found your channel sooner. Not particularly because of your predictions, but your videos overall have been very great to watch.
Yep ..folks are comparing without thinking.. John did well against "modern arm wrestlers" towards the end of the first phase of his career even though he was well into his 40s.. without stem cells, exosomes etc..he would be a totally different beast with current training methods and heavy PED usage
Depends. What do you mean by natural hand control? If you mean brute cupping strength then absolutely, if you mean a combination of hand control and fluidity then I don't think so.
@@pedrobile1488 Well everybody today is about maxing out "armwrestling lifts" and getting bigger. Nobody comes close to his elegant level of hand control.
@@Yes_I_c4n It seems you aren't following any timeline nor considering situations. John has a 17-7 win ratio over ron. He's beaten lupkes in his early career, the times he lost he didn't really contest cuz he wanted to focus on his weight class. The point was comparing primes of both
Imagine if Cleve Dean from his late teens had blasted exogenous hormones/peptides/drugs that improved his body composition and performance in the way that Levan or Denis have
Recency Bias had to wait over 30 years for John to move out of the way, so that the primitive brain "bigger is better" can get some validation. That's how special John is.
@@hasoonnine Yet none of these guys come close to the skill John had for 30 years. Not even Larratt. They need their gym, chemicals, and now stem cells to become relevant.
@@lethargicastengah572 John had that skill because everyone was shit. He is a talented and smart armwrestler that is very strong but now we have many talented and strong armwrestlers he wouldn't be able to beat the top super heavies of today like devon, ermes, levan, vitaly, etc
@@lethargicastengah572 what does me have anything to do with it when we are living in 2024 im talking about back the when they didn't have social media and they didn't know how to train or have good nutrition or have the numbers that we have today for genetic freaks to come out. I don't understand the point of your insult, if you wanna say I'm shit that's fine but what does that have to do with what I'm saying
I fully believe John never reached his true peak. He was too far ahead of everyone else when he was at his best. He needed to be rising with todays competition
@Pepe-pq3om Engin Terzi thinks that as well.. except Levan and perhaps Devon in supermatch formats.. tournaments is another story..you think Engin is delusional as well ?
Hey chris, how do we counter a really strong riser/post specially if you are a top roller. Am thinking high cup multi spinner is the answer to contain their top knuckle strength? Please make a video about the role of high cup/low cul multi spinner.
Guys like ermes Levan Devon could juice up and got as twice as strong in a matter of a couple of years. Do you really think that the prime GOAT would’ve just sat in his couch with his beer so he could get his ass kick? That’s a hell NO😂
Prime john beats everyone except levan. This guy's analysis is extremely shallow imo. John beat cleve dean, prime richard lupkes and a lot of really strong big guys. Also there's no point comparing today's juiced up, eating stem cells for breakfast superheavies to natural old school john. If john was born in today's era, with today's facilities, he'd whoop everyone.
@@tomixparker3126 Lupkes has a winning record against John, and Lupkes never knew AW, he's the most basic puller ever who only ever lifted weights back then, gotta factor that in also
@@jax9574 That's not true, he had a losing record. John beat him at the most important tournaments too, like the World championships, and at the Over the top tournament where he won a semi truck.
Do you think Denis Cyplenkov is actually as strong as people believe him to be ? I mean people just say that he is a god and its impossible to beat him . whats your opinion
he actually held a world record for strict arm curl (should still hold it, because he did it with a straight bar and the guy who "beat" him did it with an EZ bar). so, yes... world class strength, at one point.
@@Juneof1944 Thats just bicep curl strength . I am asking like an overall armwrestling strength and where would he (prime denis) rank in the super heavyweight division as of now
Is? Or was? Either way, yes, Denis was as strong as people believed but Denis was never invincible and nobody should think that. He lost several rounds through his prime years. 4-2 against Michael in 2016 (easily could've been a draw or a 4-2 win for Michael depending on the fouls). Lost to Pushkar in 2014. Lost to Chaffee in 2013. Lost to Michael in 2011 and almost lost to Lupkes right before that. Lost to Arsen in the finals in 2012? A1. Yes, there are circumstances that affect each match but Denis was never dominant enough in the wrist to take advantage of the amazing body strength he possessed.
@@uchihaobito5071 Most the rest of his strengths were on par with his world class bicep strength. Yes, I gave a specific example, but, it was meant to represent a whole.
Your forgetting if the prime John was able to live in todays time and he had to be better to win. If John from past could be living today he would do as he always did… rise to the challenge. John proved for decades he could rise to any opponent and rise above them so it’s no different now than it was ever. John is just the guy and he’s just gonna win. That’s all he knows. So you’re looking at this like if you could take John and teleport him for a day and make him take these matches and I’m saying yeah he might lose then but if you took the John from back then and allowed him to live in today’s time he would do the same thing today that he did back then And it’s not that hard to figure out. Only the most ignorant man would doubt a prime John brzenk any day.
Exactly...a straight up comparison is like saying a man on a bike is faster than someone on foot..it makes no sense..give John the same incentives and advantages and he'll be a different monster..there was nothing he lacked to become an elite guy today..genetics, a diverse skillset, table IQ..
the relevant question would be if John was young today could he compete with SHW given he had access to modern training and diet...the answer would be yes, except Levan he would beat almost everyone
I think if you put John as a young man in today’s time and let him live, he would do the same thing today that he did back then. He would probably even do it better and he would move the sport into the mainstream because he’s a superstar he’s just, the guy and that’s the way it is.
RUclips algorithm boosting comment 💪 ... 15:39 ya, the best Brzenk woulda destroyed the best Prudnyk no doubt!! people don't understand how good he was, and how it was crazy how he could handle guys who he shouldn't of be able to beat, at least if u didn't know better 😎
Today is different level of armwrestling. These are professional armwertlers. You can't even compare them to some random guys from past. There were also stars like Lupkes but very few of them was top level.
Chris, why do you think Dave Chaffe is so incredibly strong some times, like, probably one of the strongest if not the strongest side pressures of all time, but some times he get beat so easily against John, Travis and Micheal Todd, and these are just some out of the topof my mind. Is it just that his table IQ and timing are really bad, or injuries?
He lost to John after getting destroyed in a long battle with Denis the previous round. Travis at his best was one of the baddest dudes around and the WAL setup favored him. Dave always struggled with Michael because he doesn’t have the technical development to out-armwrestle Michael. That’s really all it is.
You’re all grossly underestimating prime John. He’d be easily atleast top 10-20 today with today’s super heavies. Probably could even mess with certain pullers in the top 10 and get some wins. Literally. I don’t know why it’s so trendy to underestimate prime John lol. And anyone that actually believes what John said regarding him being as strong as he ever in 2021 minus being healthy should think again. There’s no way. Maybe his hand held up pretty well but that’s about it. Just look at how strong John was only back in 2015 WAL compared to his comeback etc
How can it be so clear that this version of Devon beats prime John? Devon has stated lots of times he is on par with his 2008 shape or slightly better. 2006 John sweeps his 2008 self.
You are literally lying lol Devon has REPEATEDLY SAID that he is the strongest he has ever been Also in coach ray podcast from like 5-6 months ago (since which he has progressed EVEN MORE WHICH IS CRAZY), he also said that he is a better technician now , and again MORE STRONGER THAN 2008 , the best he has ever been
I agree with a lot, the genadi match with John I think would be a little closer but I definitely agree that Vitali would dominate prime john. To tall and to strong
I actually think he can come close when his outside chain catches up. Hard to compare tho, at 18 john was nr1 in the world , pro or amateur so that will never happen again
I doubt it. He has a great shot to be one of the all-time greats but you can only go so far without the kind of hand dominance John or others have which Rino just genetically doesn't possess.
Krasimir Kostatinov has zero loss record against John!!! I don't know exactly how many wins. I think at least 8. First supermatch they had 4-0, the last one I think 3-0 and I think they also meet in a tournament format a least once, where Krasi also beat John. I think it's the crazy sidepressure of Krasi which troubles John. Kind of like the troubles he always had against Todd Hutchings...
John didn't always have trouble against Todd, only the first tournament they pulled and the last time they pulled last year. Every other time John won. Krasi never pulled John until after John had shoulder surgery so.... yeah.
@@ChrisDrummondAW Ok. This makes a difference. Still impressiv. Who else has such a great record aginst John hardly anyone. I think Richard Lupkes also has a quite good record against him though... Cheers bro
@@GangdamStyle20that's more a matter of chance than anything else..the shoulder surgery screwed John up more than it helped..he started losing in his own weight class which didn't happen for a long time before that..he didn't regain much strength until around 2015 and the shoulder was still so bad he retired the same yr..so, I wouldn't put much stock in Krasi's record.. John's record against Ron Bath is 15-7 , something like 25-5 against Travis...and that's how it was against most elite guys.. John did have trouble with guys now and then, especially with those he didn't encounter frequently.. otherwise he'd figure guys out over a few matches and end up with a winning record.. Lupkes pursued things outside arm wrestling like Norton and Gary Goodridge and likely was on heavier stuff than John..
@@karuonline3294 There is truth in you comment for sure. The myth goes Krasi is natural. Nevertheless Krasi is a great puller, despite his recent losses imo...
How do you think Brzenk would beat Denis of today? John gave trouble to Denis in the past because Denis technic was horrendous, specially against John. Today's Denis would just drag back and hold John until he gased out eventually, I don't see John being able to turn Denis into a hook if Denis doesn't wanted to.
They pulled a year ago and Denis couldn’t pin John without waiting to burn him out. He tried multiple times. He tried so hard that between rounds he was kneeling with his face in his chair and ice packs on his neck to cool him down. John used to be so much better, he would absolutely edge out today’s Denis. He’d take the wrist in the straps and disable Denis’s arm, not unlike the early days or even when Devon beat Denis.
In 2015, John beat Devon in 3 of 4 rounds at WAL when John was 51 and Devon 40. I actually think that the fact that you have older guys pushing 60 like John and Toddzilla competing for world titles means that the competition is not better than it was in the past. Same thing with Devon, and Jerry pushing 50 and winning SHW belts. That is a sign that competition is not improving. Although AW is more popular in Europe, the American AW scene was stronger in the past.
@@ChrisDrummondAWbut the fact is prime John with no stem cells or other advances absolutely destroyed him. We can say maybe, or probably i dont care what i seen with my two eyes his prime john absolutely destroyed him
@@Joshua-ht7ll His point is that the version of Devon that John beat is not the best version of Devon. Devon today, as in March of 2024 would stomp any version of John because Devon is too strong in his lane.
no one argued that. DId you even watch the video? do you know what the word "today" means. We're comparing to TODAY's athletes, not yesterdays or 10 years ago.
Not prime Vitaly, he had a bad shoulder and definitely is still leveling up, but style matters. A beating B and B beating C doesn’t mean A beats C. Example: Devon, Genadi, and Ermes.
That's like saying Procopcuic or Mindaugus (i know i botched the spelling) aren't top #10.... well, of course not, when were talking overall, instead of the weight class they're actually in. John ain't a super heavy.... no one is shocked when someone can't beat someone with skill and strength who is a weight class or 2 above them.
@@Juneof1944 but John used to beat the superheavyweights of his time, and thats what the video is about, could he still do it now with his prime shape.
He already beat cyplenkov , before his kidneys shut down and cyplenkov had 20kg muscle on him. Cyplenkov is ranked 5th today, with the same or worse shape than 2009. Stop bsing
Prime John would be comfy #1 in 105kg. It's delusional to think that he would have a chance in super match format nowadays because he beat some big dudes back in the days in tournaments. He admits it himself that back in the days folks didn't know how to armwestle.
No..he never said that folks back in the day didn't know how to arm wrestle..in fact he's said the opposite.. watch the live with him and Ron Bath..they clearly said that the strength aspect due to rigorous off the table training is the only edge that guys have today..and that they're NOT better arm wrestlers in terms of skill or table IQ
A few good takes but honestly most of this is extreme hopium. John isn’t top 10 today in anyway shape or form. The level is different. It’s way high now
@@NewEraLandscaping724 He would lose to Devon and Levan. But he could beat everybody else. To say anything else means you dont understand Armwrestling and you dont know what John used to be. John from 2006-2008 would Play with everybody in the 105 and 115 and would kill alot of monsters. To say he wouldnt have a chance is delusional beyond comprehension.
@@dodumichalcevski I most certainly do some John fans just don’t want to admit it lol.! The level is stupid high I love John but he’s not winning against these top 10 guys.! They are to big too strong, way more table IQ, PEDs etc.!
@@NewEraLandscaping724 You are delusional beyond comprehension 🎉 Nobody except maybe Devon has more Table I.Q then John. Also 2006-2008 John would DESTROOOOOOY Revaz and Jerry like nothing.
Why ? What do you think John's missing? I am assuming that you translate John to the context of modern arm wrestling where guys work like maniacs off the table, pay a lot of attention to diet etc, and engage in very heavy usage of PEDs compared to John's heyday
@@NewEraLandscaping724 Denis himself isn't what he used to be.. spending several years away from the sport after a serious health scare makes a world of difference..just look at how Voevoda did after years of absence against Tim Bresnan and then against John.. so, using him as a barometer doesn't make sense...as for the level being different, the level of what? it's definitely not skills or table IQ.. strength? yeah but what would keep John from getting stronger the way guys do today by following similar training methods off the table and heavy PED usage ? look at the transformation of Genadi in the last 10 yrs.. John had the right genetics, he mastered different styles at different stages of his career and his table IQ was as high as anyone's...
@@karuonline3294 Because back than the pinnacle was Tim Bresnan, Voevoda, Travis Etc, nowhere near where this sport is at today.! It’s not even close.! I know no one wants to admit it but John isn’t beating none of the super heavies today.!
@@NewEraLandscaping724 there's nothing to admit.. this isn't just a layman's opinion.. Engin himself says 2006 John would be highly ranked today..you just don't know enough about the sport. Btw, Tim Bresnan was never really the peak and Travis at his best would also do very well today
You're out of your mind, Chris. I love ya but you're tripping my brother. John would be top 3 if not #1. And Prime John is definitely not 80's and 90's. That's the fastest John but not the best. John Breznk's Prime is 2008-2009. I don't understand how you can say any of this when John destroyed Prime Dennis twice and many people believe that Dennis would defeat Levan. John destroys Ermes. John destroys Gennady. John already destroyed Dave. John destroys Georgi. Morozov isn't even worthy to be at the table with John. Same with Revaz. He's already defeated Jerry multiple times. More than half the people on the current top ten were already defeated by an 80% John Breznk. Prime John Breznk is also beating Devon now. The only question is could he have defeated Levan and the answer is yes. John beat Cleve Dean easily who was like the Levan of that era. You can't call him the GOAT if you believe someone else would beat him at his best. Levan ain't going on a 25 yr win streak so yeah. Prime John Breznk beats everyone in todays super heavyweight and heavyweight classes.
Next time you tell someone they're out of their mind, at least get your facts straight. John never pulled prime Denis. John beat him twice in the 2008 Zloty Tur (5 weeks after getting swept by Devon at Arm Wars) and 5-1 in a supermatch in 2009. Then he got crushed by Denis in 2010. That was years before Denis's peak; he was strongest overall in 2013-2014 and in his best armwrestling shape in 2018. I'm not guessing at this - he's the one who said it based on his performance in the gym and sparring. Next, many people think Denis would beat Levan. Well, many people also think the world is flat. Nobody in their right mind believes prime Denis would beat Levan. He would've beaten Levan sometime prior to Levan winning the Zloty Tur perhaps, but after that Levan became too much. He was much more dominant than Denis. Next, when John beat Dave he only won because Dave was terribly worn out from his 3 rounds with Denis in the tournament round before he ran into John; John was much fresher and he has said himself that that's the only reason he beat Dave that day. Even then, John was an inch from getting pinned by Dave - it's ludicrous that you can look at their match and say John "destroyed" Dave. I already said prime John would beat Dave anyway but that match is not representative of either man's best shape. Georgi, Morozov, and Revaz are all speculation but I also said I favored John in all three matches. Jerry and John pulled each other in some of their best years and traded wins; I put John ahead of Jerry. As for Levan..... if even Engin Terzi, hands-down John's biggest worshiper thinks John can't beat Levan, I don't know why you think he could or what evidence you could produce that suggests he would. John's a mortal man. John's the best light-heavyweight ever and the GOAT because of the combination of his level and longevity. He doesn't have to have the highest peak to be the GOAT and if you think he did then you're the one who is out of his mind. Good day.
Lol ..man I love John as much as anyone but I don't think he'd beat Levan..are you taking John as he was or translating him to the "modern" era with rigorous training off the table and heavy PED usage ?
@@ChrisDrummondAW Chris, are we making an "as is" comparison or considering John in his physical prime with the current training methods that emphasize strength and a "whatever it takes" approach to roids etc ?
Your just emotional
@@ChrisDrummondAW are you not aware of johns shape at 2010 zloty?
The fact that he could even be competitive with todays Supers says a lot about John and how he good he was for a 225 guy...
One thing is for sure - outside of the SHW division, John would absolutely splatter ANYBODY in the lower weight classes. It wouldn't even be close.
And just a comment on what would happen between prime John vs Morozov: I think that match would've look similar to how Morozov vs Prudnik looked.
@@FlornmonkI couldn't see John winning that match, but your example was brilliant, now I can imagine how John could have bested the terminator with superior hand and table IQ.
Agreed
John would get beaten by current Devon in 105 and 115
@@Joeldupea Devon is the only exception.
This is an interesting question to speculate about. Here are a few of my thoughts: I have followed armwrestling for a long time, and I have never seen John look more physically impressive than he did at the Mohegan sun PAC event in 2006. He was a chiseled 235 lbs. I think that that version of John could've contended with many of the current best super heavies. There are multiple lines of evidence for this, but to mention just a few: Travis recently said that he(Travis) reached his peak in 2006 and that John in Japan that year was the strongest puller he had ever faced. This is a quite remarkable statement, since Travis defeated Dave and Jerry convincingly at the WAL finals in 2016, and there is little doubt that Dave was in much better shape back then than he has been in recent years. Another thing to consider is Farid's recent perfomances against pullers like Vitaly and Zaur etc. According to Engin and Farid himself, Farid is not the guy he was in 2006, and he still beat and gave trouble some of the strongest pullers of today, and I'm sure you know what John did to Farid in 2006. When Raimond Leipins interviewed Farid on the VOA channel a few years ago, he asked Farid who was stronger between Pushkar and John(2006 version) and his answer was "John", and remember that Farid pulled Pushkar multiple times in 2010-2015 when Pushkar was arguably at his zenith.
John in his 2006 Semerenko form looked absolutely frightening.
2006 also when John literally toyed with Farid Usmanov in Vegas. That was nuts. He could beat him in 2 seconds with a top roll. But instead played with Farid in a straight up Hook match. Which was Farid’s strongest style. Just so that it would be competitive. And not boring
John spent most of his career when the sport was more of a hobby than a profession ..it didn't offer incentives like it does today but he was always a class apart..pulling multiple classes and often winning when most others didn't even try that..those who did sometimes didn't place in any category..can you imagine John having the ability to be a full time arm wrestler like Devon ? he NEVER had that..he was fighting in tournaments for as low as 1000 bucks as late as 2004..he was on TRT after 40 but the incentives weren't anywhere near as good to justify becoming a walkin chemical factory like Levan..or to engage in rigorous training off the table for specific aspects..the sport changed around the mid 2000s as the money became significant and a new breed of modern arm wrestlers came on the scene..how did John do against them ? he won a bunch of titles at Zlotys along with 3 in the OPEN category even though it was towards the end of his career..his shoulder was becoming a frequent, terrible prob for which he had surgery in 2011 and was never quite the same after that..
People who think he wouldn't do well against super heavyweights today don't have a clue..put prime John in today's context and he would kick serious ass..what do you think he lacked ? skills, table IQ, genetics ? not a damn thing..he had every attribute in spades.. there's a reason someone as knowledgeable as Engin reckons 2006 John would rank very high in today's sport.. give him all the advantages that guys have today and it's not even much of a question
Everybody knows armwrestling would know 2005-2006 john would swipe 95 - 105 - 115 and be Top 5 in shw in todays roster.
Exactly
Everything else is delusional
this is with John doing all that guys do today, right ? It's more of a strength sport now than it used to be..so, he'd have to do quite a bit of work off the table like almost everyone else..if he had the same advantages then it's hard to see him not doing well
@@dodumichalcevskinewer fans trash him saying he wouldn't stand a chance against SHWs today but can't point to much that he lacked to be competitive against the best..
The thing with John is... He was always stronger than what he needed to be back in the days...He didn't try to push his limits... Just imagine if there was a Levan to challenge him... We would have a different John in that lean 90 kg guy... 🙏🏻
I see a new video, I instantly like it.
Just subscribed after your Devon prediction video.
Wish I’d found your channel sooner. Not particularly because of your predictions, but your videos overall have been very great to watch.
Y’all are tripping. He definitely would be top 5, probably too 3 !!
Yep ..folks are comparing without thinking.. John did well against "modern arm wrestlers" towards the end of the first phase of his career even though he was well into his 40s.. without stem cells, exosomes etc..he would be a totally different beast with current training methods and heavy PED usage
Do we currently have anyone with Prime Johns natural hand control? I can't think of anyone currently.
Levan
he was nothing to prime levan, 0
Depends. What do you mean by natural hand control? If you mean brute cupping strength then absolutely, if you mean a combination of hand control and fluidity then I don't think so.
@@pedrobile1488 Well everybody today is about maxing out "armwrestling lifts" and getting bigger. Nobody comes close to his elegant level of hand control.
Yes Devon, Levan and Georgi
2006 John Brzenk would be:
1st in 105 kg
1st in 115 kg
2nd in Supers
Delusional
John is the goat. But you couldn’t be more wrong. John’s peak is no where near 2nd in supers currently.
Agreed. These devon fanboys are delusional.
@@Yes_I_c4n It seems you aren't following any timeline nor considering situations. John has a 17-7 win ratio over ron. He's beaten lupkes in his early career, the times he lost he didn't really contest cuz he wanted to focus on his weight class. The point was comparing primes of both
🤡
Imagine if Cleve Dean from his late teens had blasted exogenous hormones/peptides/drugs that improved his body composition and performance in the way that Levan or Denis have
Very very very hard to say. Just look at the way john handled irakli
That was very interesting. Good video.🐐
Recency Bias had to wait over 30 years for John to move out of the way, so that the primitive brain "bigger is better" can get some validation. That's how special John is.
Its actually the opposite, people are too nostalgic with john
@@hasoonnine Yet none of these guys come close to the skill John had for 30 years. Not even Larratt. They need their gym, chemicals, and now stem cells to become relevant.
@@lethargicastengah572 John had that skill because everyone was shit. He is a talented and smart armwrestler that is very strong but now we have many talented and strong armwrestlers he wouldn't be able to beat the top super heavies of today like devon, ermes, levan, vitaly, etc
@@hasoonnine Is everybody was shit then what does that make you?
@@lethargicastengah572 what does me have anything to do with it when we are living in 2024 im talking about back the when they didn't have social media and they didn't know how to train or have good nutrition or have the numbers that we have today for genetic freaks to come out. I don't understand the point of your insult, if you wanna say I'm shit that's fine but what does that have to do with what I'm saying
Can someone answer me? how many hours before stretching after an intense workout to maximize strength gains?
I fully believe John never reached his true peak. He was too far ahead of everyone else when he was at his best. He needed to be rising with todays competition
John from 2006-2008 would be in the top 5 maybe even top 3 today
I agree John would beat all the heavyweights of today, in his weight class the 2006 version of him imo, he'd be too much of a handful
I'm sorry, but you are delusional if you think that.
@Pepe-pq3om Engin Terzi thinks that as well.. except Levan and perhaps Devon in supermatch formats.. tournaments is another story..you think Engin is delusional as well ?
I think he'd do well in the SHW division as well..if he did all that guys do today
Hey chris, how do we counter a really strong riser/post specially if you are a top roller. Am thinking high cup multi spinner is the answer to contain their top knuckle strength? Please make a video about the role of high cup/low cul multi spinner.
I think prime John would rank exactly where Ermes ranks today.
Guys like ermes Levan Devon could juice up and got as twice as strong in a matter of a couple of years. Do you really think that the prime GOAT would’ve just sat in his couch with his beer so he could get his ass kick? That’s a hell NO😂
Lol.. exactly..
Devon would have taken Tsvetkovs hand if Tsvetkov didn't give up.
Nah. Devon just had a stronger arm.
Great vid 🇲🇽🇲🇽
What about the version of John from 2009 that beat Cyplenkov in their supermatch
Prime john beats everyone except levan. This guy's analysis is extremely shallow imo. John beat cleve dean, prime richard lupkes and a lot of really strong big guys. Also there's no point comparing today's juiced up, eating stem cells for breakfast superheavies to natural old school john. If john was born in today's era, with today's facilities, he'd whoop everyone.
@@tomixparker3126 Lupkes has a winning record against John, and Lupkes never knew AW, he's the most basic puller ever who only ever lifted weights back then, gotta factor that in also
@@jax9574 That's not true, he had a losing record. John beat him at the most important tournaments too, like the World championships, and at the Over the top tournament where he won a semi truck.
@@Yes_I_c4n brother, 90kg brzenk defeated rime richard lupkes (140kg) in 1988.
@@Yes_I_c4n The 2006 version of John toyed with Ron Bath.
Do you think Denis Cyplenkov is actually as strong as people believe him to be ? I mean people just say that he is a god and its impossible to beat him . whats your opinion
he actually held a world record for strict arm curl (should still hold it, because he did it with a straight bar and the guy who "beat" him did it with an EZ bar). so, yes... world class strength, at one point.
In his prime yes, maybe levan who knows. Todays he still has the strength i would say. Just cant do the stuff he used 2
@@Juneof1944 Thats just bicep curl strength . I am asking like an overall armwrestling strength and where would he (prime denis) rank in the super heavyweight division as of now
Is? Or was? Either way, yes, Denis was as strong as people believed but Denis was never invincible and nobody should think that. He lost several rounds through his prime years. 4-2 against Michael in 2016 (easily could've been a draw or a 4-2 win for Michael depending on the fouls). Lost to Pushkar in 2014. Lost to Chaffee in 2013. Lost to Michael in 2011 and almost lost to Lupkes right before that. Lost to Arsen in the finals in 2012? A1. Yes, there are circumstances that affect each match but Denis was never dominant enough in the wrist to take advantage of the amazing body strength he possessed.
@@uchihaobito5071
Most the rest of his strengths were on par with his world class bicep strength. Yes, I gave a specific example, but, it was meant to represent a whole.
Drummond what do you think of Tool? You should listen to 7empest
I don’t know what that is.
@@ChrisDrummondAW thats music brother
@@ChrisDrummondAW 7empest is a song they released in 2019 on their latest album
Ok. I don’t listen to anything that new and don’t really want to.
@@ChrisDrummondAW never heard of someone who doesnt like music. I couldnt live without it
Your forgetting if the prime John was able to live in todays time and he had to be better to win. If John from past could be living today he would do as he always did… rise to the challenge. John proved for decades he could rise to any opponent and rise above them so it’s no different now than it was ever. John is just the guy and he’s just gonna win. That’s all he knows. So you’re looking at this like if you could take John and teleport him for a day and make him take these matches and I’m saying yeah he might lose then but if you took the John from back then and allowed him to live in today’s time he would do the same thing today that he did back then And it’s not that hard to figure out. Only the most ignorant man would doubt a prime John brzenk any day.
Exactly...a straight up comparison is like saying a man on a bike is faster than someone on foot..it makes no sense..give John the same incentives and advantages and he'll be a different monster..there was nothing he lacked to become an elite guy today..genetics, a diverse skillset, table IQ..
the relevant question would be if John was young today could he compete with SHW given he had access to modern training and diet...the answer would be yes, except Levan he would beat almost everyone
I think if you put John as a young man in today’s time and let him live, he would do the same thing today that he did back then. He would probably even do it better and he would move the sport into the mainstream because he’s a superstar he’s just, the guy and that’s the way it is.
RUclips algorithm boosting comment 💪 ... 15:39 ya, the best Brzenk woulda destroyed the best Prudnyk no doubt!! people don't understand how good he was, and how it was crazy how he could handle guys who he shouldn't of be able to beat, at least if u didn't know better 😎
Nice vid
All fans devon.wont change hostory of arm sport..but no shance..all people in europe know who its best of all time..JOHN BRZENK 🇲🇰🇬🇷
Today is different level of armwrestling.
These are professional armwertlers. You can't even compare them to some random guys from past. There were also stars like Lupkes but very few of them was top level.
Chris, why do you think Dave Chaffe is so incredibly strong some times, like, probably one of the strongest if not the strongest side pressures of all time, but some times he get beat so easily against John, Travis and Micheal Todd, and these are just some out of the topof my mind. Is it just that his table IQ and timing are really bad, or injuries?
He lost to John after getting destroyed in a long battle with Denis the previous round. Travis at his best was one of the baddest dudes around and the WAL setup favored him. Dave always struggled with Michael because he doesn’t have the technical development to out-armwrestle Michael. That’s really all it is.
Puts in prospective how lethal Arsen liliev was
John is goat no one is close
Jon beat Dennis way back when Dennis was huge
Revaz is actually good at pulling without his wrist, just watch his last match with Levan
You’re all grossly underestimating prime John. He’d be easily atleast top 10-20 today with today’s super heavies. Probably could even mess with certain pullers in the top 10 and get some wins. Literally. I don’t know why it’s so trendy to underestimate prime John lol. And anyone that actually believes what John said regarding him being as strong as he ever in 2021 minus being healthy should think again. There’s no way. Maybe his hand held up pretty well but that’s about it. Just look at how strong John was only back in 2015 WAL compared to his comeback etc
How can it be so clear that this version of Devon beats prime John? Devon has stated lots of times he is on par with his 2008 shape or slightly better. 2006 John sweeps his 2008 self.
Complete speculation about 2006 John sweeping the version of Devon that overwhelmed him in 2008.
You are literally lying lol
Devon has REPEATEDLY SAID that he is the strongest he has ever been
Also in coach ray podcast from like 5-6 months ago (since which he has progressed EVEN MORE WHICH IS CRAZY), he also said that he is a better technician now , and again MORE STRONGER THAN 2008 , the best he has ever been
@@Geradtheichigoslayer Not by a big margin lol
You really think he can be better than he was in his 30’s?
@@viktore69 yeah I do think that. You can check the numbers on his lifts that he has been doing for decades , HE IS STILL PROGRESSING IN THEM
@@Geradtheichigoslayer I’m not denying that he is better than 2008. But I can’t see how he is several miles ahead of his early 30’s self.
Didn’t John waste Dennis in the early days?
Prime Brzenk beats everyone and gives Levan a run for his money.
Period.
I agree with a lot, the genadi match with John I think would be a little closer but I definitely agree that Vitali would dominate prime john. To tall and to strong
Do you think someone like Rino could reach his goatness
I actually think he can come close when his outside chain catches up. Hard to compare tho, at 18 john was nr1 in the world , pro or amateur so that will never happen again
I doubt it. He has a great shot to be one of the all-time greats but you can only go so far without the kind of hand dominance John or others have which Rino just genetically doesn't possess.
No way, specially if you consider the the young top pullers of today are onto a lot o gear
@@Pepe-pq3om rino is natty
I have a question, Was John really undefeated for 40 years like some people claim him to be ?
No
The claim is 16 years undefeated
@@dodumichalcevski so not even a single super match loss in that 16 year streak ?
20 yrs..in his weight class
@@incontrol2280
I dont know the Details.
But thats the claim i heard couple of times
Super interesting thought experiment. I think I would agree with everything besides Denis. Prime Denis beats prime John.
I didn’t say prime John would beat prime Denis, I said prime John would beat current Denis.
I just smoked a j and now Im just chillig here with you talking about AW :D
Krasimir Kostatinov has zero loss record against John!!! I don't know exactly how many wins. I think at least 8. First supermatch they had 4-0, the last one I think 3-0 and I think they also meet in a tournament format a least once, where Krasi also beat John.
I think it's the crazy sidepressure of Krasi which troubles John. Kind of like the troubles he always had against Todd Hutchings...
John didn't always have trouble against Todd, only the first tournament they pulled and the last time they pulled last year. Every other time John won. Krasi never pulled John until after John had shoulder surgery so.... yeah.
@@ChrisDrummondAW Ok. This makes a difference. Still impressiv. Who else has such a great record aginst John hardly anyone. I think Richard Lupkes also has a quite good record against him though...
Cheers bro
@@GangdamStyle20that's more a matter of chance than anything else..the shoulder surgery screwed John up more than it helped..he started losing in his own weight class which didn't happen for a long time before that..he didn't regain much strength until around 2015 and the shoulder was still so bad he retired the same yr..so, I wouldn't put much stock in Krasi's record..
John's record against Ron Bath is 15-7 , something like 25-5 against Travis...and that's how it was against most elite guys.. John did have trouble with guys now and then, especially with those he didn't encounter frequently.. otherwise he'd figure guys out over a few matches and end up with a winning record.. Lupkes pursued things outside arm wrestling like Norton and Gary Goodridge and likely was on heavier stuff than John..
@@karuonline3294 There is truth in you comment for sure. The myth goes Krasi is natural. Nevertheless Krasi is a great puller, despite his recent losses imo...
How do you think Brzenk would beat Denis of today? John gave trouble to Denis in the past because Denis technic was horrendous, specially against John. Today's Denis would just drag back and hold John until he gased out eventually, I don't see John being able to turn Denis into a hook if Denis doesn't wanted to.
They pulled a year ago and Denis couldn’t pin John without waiting to burn him out. He tried multiple times. He tried so hard that between rounds he was kneeling with his face in his chair and ice packs on his neck to cool him down. John used to be so much better, he would absolutely edge out today’s Denis. He’d take the wrist in the straps and disable Denis’s arm, not unlike the early days or even when Devon beat Denis.
John beats all of them on his best night. No contest really.
John Brzenk vs Yordan Tsonev??
Today John would lose but prime John slaps Tsonev.
John destroyed young devon.
So? Young Devon isn’t today’s Devon.
In 2015, John beat Devon in 3 of 4 rounds at WAL when John was 51 and Devon 40. I actually think that the fact that you have older guys pushing 60 like John and Toddzilla competing for world titles means that the competition is not better than it was in the past. Same thing with Devon, and Jerry pushing 50 and winning SHW belts. That is a sign that competition is not improving. Although AW is more popular in Europe, the American AW scene was stronger in the past.
@@ChrisDrummondAWbut the fact is prime John with no stem cells or other advances absolutely destroyed him. We can say maybe, or probably i dont care what i seen with my two eyes his prime john absolutely destroyed him
@@Joshua-ht7ll His point is that the version of Devon that John beat is not the best version of Devon. Devon today, as in March of 2024 would stomp any version of John because Devon is too strong in his lane.
no one argued that. DId you even watch the video? do you know what the word "today" means. We're comparing to TODAY's athletes, not yesterdays or 10 years ago.
He'd be around 8-10 imo
need 2x prime jonh only to fight prime levan🤣
John prime beats even levan until you see it happen,
Sorry MMT lol
Ermes would wipe john away. They are strong in almost the same area, but Ermes is 30-40% stringers than prime john in anything
Thats so dumb. We have never seen john at ermes weight and medicine dosage. If u said this to gasparini he would laugh in ur face
agree
Ermes struggled against a chaffee that is around 20-25% weaker than his prime self
While john used to beat him
You dont understand Armwrestling
Top 10 of Highest peaks ( Basically how the top 10 right now would look )
1. Levan Saginashvili
2. John Brzenk ( 2006 )
3. Devon Larratt
4. Andrey Pushkar ( 2018 )
5. Travis Bagent ( 2005 )
6. Denis Cyplenkov ( 2013 )
7. Dave Chaffee ( 2013 )
8. Ermes Gasparini
9. Genadi Kvickvinia
10. Michael Todd ( 2018 )
But prime John beats prime Chaffee and a non-prime Chaffee beat a prime Vitali…
Not prime Vitaly, he had a bad shoulder and definitely is still leveling up, but style matters. A beating B and B beating C doesn’t mean A beats C. Example: Devon, Genadi, and Ermes.
Strange comparison, given how prevalent juicing is nowadays. Yeah, John wouldnt stand a chance, because he was natty....
he was natty until he turned 40..TRT after that ..but nothing like what Levan and Devon have been doin
Prime john wouldn't rank in today's top 10 sorry guys
That's like saying Procopcuic or Mindaugus (i know i botched the spelling) aren't top #10.... well, of course not, when were talking overall, instead of the weight class they're actually in.
John ain't a super heavy.... no one is shocked when someone can't beat someone with skill and strength who is a weight class or 2 above them.
@@Juneof1944 but John used to beat the superheavyweights of his time, and thats what the video is about, could he still do it now with his prime shape.
@@leonardotheuseless4188
I'm more so replying to this guy specifically than I am to the video generally
He already beat cyplenkov , before his kidneys shut down and cyplenkov had 20kg muscle on him. Cyplenkov is ranked 5th today, with the same or worse shape than 2009. Stop bsing
John beat devon in the 90s
No chance. But still like father of armwrestling. ;-)
delusional
@@gigachad-rx3zvThat question is delusional for sure. And what? ;-)
Hahhaha very fanny .you its fan devon...but rimember John Brzenk its best ever hi from 🇬🇷🇲🇰💪
Prime John would be comfy #1 in 105kg. It's delusional to think that he would have a chance in super match format nowadays because he beat some big dudes back in the days in tournaments. He admits it himself that back in the days folks didn't know how to armwestle.
No..he never said that folks back in the day didn't know how to arm wrestle..in fact he's said the opposite.. watch the live with him and Ron Bath..they clearly said that the strength aspect due to rigorous off the table training is the only edge that guys have today..and that they're NOT better arm wrestlers in terms of skill or table IQ
A few good takes but honestly most of this is extreme hopium. John isn’t top 10 today in anyway shape or form. The level is different. It’s way high now
John wouldn’t be in the top 10
Correct
He would be in the top 5 maybe even top 3
@@dodumichalcevski No chance, He wouldn’t beat Levan, Devon, Georgi, Alex, Genadi, Morozoz, laletin 🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@NewEraLandscaping724
He would lose to Devon and Levan.
But he could beat everybody else.
To say anything else means you dont understand Armwrestling and you dont know what John used to be.
John from 2006-2008 would Play with everybody in the 105 and 115 and would kill alot of monsters.
To say he wouldnt have a chance is delusional beyond comprehension.
@@dodumichalcevski I most certainly do some John fans just don’t want to admit it lol.! The level is stupid high I love John but he’s not winning against these top 10 guys.! They are to big too strong, way more table IQ, PEDs etc.!
@@NewEraLandscaping724
You are delusional beyond comprehension 🎉
Nobody except maybe Devon has more Table I.Q then John.
Also 2006-2008 John would DESTROOOOOOY Revaz and Jerry like nothing.
I think you are being too generous. Everyone loves john but lets be honest, he would have lost 5-0 to all top10 superheavies of today.
No 😂
😂😂😂😂
Delusional beyond comprehension
You’re crazy if you think John would beat any of those guys in the top 7-8.! No disrespect to John but he wouldn’t much with today’s guys.!
Why ? What do you think John's missing? I am assuming that you translate John to the context of modern arm wrestling where guys work like maniacs off the table, pay a lot of attention to diet etc, and engage in very heavy usage of PEDs compared to John's heyday
@@karuonline3294 Because the level is different now.! Dennis was the best at one point in Supers now he’s lucky if he’s top 10.!
@@NewEraLandscaping724 Denis himself isn't what he used to be.. spending several years away from the sport after a serious health scare makes a world of difference..just look at how Voevoda did after years of absence against Tim Bresnan and then against John.. so, using him as a barometer doesn't make sense...as for the level being different, the level of what? it's definitely not skills or table IQ.. strength? yeah but what would keep John from getting stronger the way guys do today by following similar training methods off the table and heavy PED usage ? look at the transformation of Genadi in the last 10 yrs.. John had the right genetics, he mastered different styles at different stages of his career and his table IQ was as high as anyone's...
@@karuonline3294 Because back than the pinnacle was Tim Bresnan, Voevoda, Travis Etc, nowhere near where this sport is at today.! It’s not even close.! I know no one wants to admit it but John isn’t beating none of the super heavies today.!
@@NewEraLandscaping724 there's nothing to admit.. this isn't just a layman's opinion.. Engin himself says 2006 John would be highly ranked today..you just don't know enough about the sport.
Btw, Tim Bresnan was never really the peak and Travis at his best would also do very well today