Have to somewhat disagree, sadly Demoman lacks the ability to call upon the power of all Scotsman past present and future to materialize 8 stickies from the ether directly beneath the feet of his opponents to send them straight to hell the near instant he sees them, he is limited by the mortal constraint of being forced to place said stickies in advance and then wait for somebody to walk on it for 10 minutes and do the shadenfreude when he eventually kills eric_mendez_2007
The question was "name something else than headshot that can one shot enemies at any range". They never specified anything about setup time. Just asked about abilities that can one-shot from accross the map. Stickies can do that. Hell, even a SINGULAR QUICKIE can do that (on squishy enemies) if you learn/master the arc of the bomb. And to headshot anything more than a squishy in one-shot you have to wait for at least 1.5 to 2 seconds, even more if they're overhealed. And even more for a freshly spawn with the Bazaar Bargain. So don't act like headshots don't require "setup time" either.
I don’t think they were complaining that sniper has no set up time, it’s that it’s way too short for how much damage it can do. Sure quickies are annoying because of their slow charge time, but they do have finite range even fully charged, and by the time your done fully charging it and it gets close enough to one shot the sniper, unless they didn’t see you the entire time there’s a very high chance they’ll just turn around and insta kill you if you don’t have full health, or if you do, leave you seriously damaged, unless you have a pocket medic, leaving their team to finish you off. Oh yeah also snipers have psychic powers to move whenever they’re in some kind of danger, especially taunt kills. It happens so many goddamn times to me, I have a sniper right there, it’s over, their keyboard seems like it’s dead, I begin to taunt kill, and with no provocation, they move out of the way without even knowing you exist, just, “hey I should move”.
I would argue that stickies are a bit strong though. Like they're the only projectile that really pyro cant reliably get rid of by airblasting and they're an absurdly versitile bomb that can do high rocket level damage from MANY ranges, exist , have a controlable projectile speed, and a clip the size of an airstrike. There should probably be a few more options with getting rid of traps imo. They have GLARING weaknesses though and their start up time means that demo cant really use them for close self defense, if he's using them for a trap he cant really use them to actually fight without destroying that trap, and unlike demoman the sniper has a bunch of secondaries to counter his counters and the, admittedly really impressive and usually skill reliant, close range head shot doesnt really hurt sniper even if it lands unlike demo who even on hit takes self damage. Theres something to be said about the fact that in high level play demo is THE strongest class next to medic to the point of being limited to 1 but also he's op in a way that most people really dont mind or actively find kinda fun to fight because of just how exploitable his weaknesses are for even much worse players vs a good player. He really doesnt have the same level of options sniper does nor can he consecutively one shot person after person nor be as aggressive about it since they have to come to him and walk into his traps. If he's spamming he still has to two shot usually. Its why demo is way more common than sniper in 6s but why both are some of the strongest classes in highlander and why you dont see aimbot demos like you do snipers even though projectile aimbots do exist. Plus here's the thing, people forget this but demo used to be able to one shot classes with the lock and load and unlike sticky traps people DID have an issue with that because he could keep that sustain up and didnt leave himself vulnerable afterwards. If a sticky trap is detonated or destroyed that's such a time sink for demo that he cant really reliably make another trap to stop the push like a sniper can rescope. He can sticky spam sure but he has to land multiple shots at that point assuming they're not right in his face.
@@Nicky2414 he does, in the video under the gas passer he did put up a comment that he was also making a video on it and wasn't sure whether or not to upload it as they go over the same points.
didn't think we'd start off with based talk about RBS on shotguns. good point btw. never thought about how "realism" is being cherrypicked when it's used in favor of RBS.
RBS seems to just be a fact in TF2, though. SMGs, Pistols and Miniguns also have spread, though I suppose that is par for the course for automatics in video games other than like, counter strike.
@@Juli_is_Online Realism can be good. Like, you design a gun in a video game. How does it work? It's much easier to just look at how they work in real life. But, you want to introduce nuance and have different guns with upsides and downsides, different traits. How do you do that? Again, it's easy to just take from real life. Shotguns with a closer range but higher damage, lower clipsize and one-at-a-time reloads, rifles that can spray automatic fire but are innacurate, and so on. It's handy.
@@Juli_is_Online it makes gun more like gun, without affecting damage that much, otherwise all guns would have to be shooting one hitscan that does all the work, so it would be tye most consistent one of them all
Whenever anyone brings up keeping random bullet spread on shotguns I think about Payday 2 and how that game’s shotguns deal full damage in a pellet but only one pellet counts as damage if any hit an enemy. It’s not realistic but it makes shotguns a lot more fun to use.
PD2 shotguns are fun, but that mechanic does have an annoying downside; in very close quarters, shotguns become less effective. If you connect 8 pellets into an enemy, it only counts the highest damage pellet, effectively wasting the rest of the shot. Damage on shotguns is high enough that this is only a real issue with Bulldozers or weaker shotguns against specials, but it has gotten me downed a few times too many.
PD2, however, is PVE, not PVP. It's not necessary to balance the game around making it fair for both sides because one side are unthinking unfeeling automated shooting machines (who are also AI controlled) and the other side is players. PVE allows you to make it fun for one side without caring about the other side
Stickytrap has mechanical limitations, you can't make stickytrap from a great distance excluding quicky (have to be close enough), you have to reload, you have to know when to detonate (either line of sight, map mechanics such as cart or external line of sight telling you), you have to prepare the trap (time investment), the enemy can see the trap or just don't walk into it (can be avoided for sure, it's about skill of trapping, but not everywhere, not in any scenario). Sniper headshots only have three minor mechanic limitations: line of sight (which literally everything already have as limitation but stickytraps and sentries if you count that), (pretty short) reload time after shot and (almost nonexistent) scoping time. Everything else is skill limits. Sniper puts too much, WAY too much to skill limits. Nobody's arguing landing headshots consistently is easy. It's hard. But the skill ceiling for sniper has a size of fucking scyscraper. It's too much. Try fighting heavy aimbot and sniper aimbot, you'll see the difference right away. IMHO make headshots mechanically impossible from short distance excluding hunstman. Or nerf close headshot damage, like reverse ambassador.
really sniper's skill ceiling is the inverse of pyros and a perfect showcase on why you shouldnt balance something in a game like tf2 purely on how hard it is to do because you end up with a situation where pyro is really hard punishing bad players but becomes increasingly useless as the general skill of a match is increased to the point his only use in high level play is just denying uber and also acting as a kinda meh body guard in highlander. Where as bad snipers are an out right liability to their team but as the general skill of the sniper and match are increased he becomes more and more of a dominant force until you end up with him being like one of the best classes easy in things like high lander comp play and the only like class people consistantly will switch off scout for in 6s when being aggressive, and I mean consistantly switch to not just an out there unexpected switch to catch people off guard like say a spy pick on offense. Its also enabled bots being able to exploit his exponential skill sky to just fuck over the entire game's servers outright. No other class can do what sniper does to this level, even heavy bots are counterable kinda easy really if you know what to do, assuming there's no vacinator bots with them since that item is utterly busted in its own right. And no sticky traps are not able to do what sniper can neither, they're a one and done thing that literally has entire items and arguably classes that can just nullify them and let a team pass unbothered. You dont have to counter an ENTIRE class just to get rid of them and the class cant just repeatively do it over and over without punishment if they miss/have their trap destroyed the first time to the sheer level sniper can.
5:05 isn't he right though?? A sticky trap needs a bigger investment to pull off. Like you have to have BEEN there to place it, spend a while doing so and hope it isn't removed by the time you go somewhere far away to wait. Oh and it's in a limited area Or you can click on someone really hard Not trying to prove a point, dunno what the guy was even arguing for but sticky traps ARE vastly inferior to sniper
Fish has a horrible case of sniper brain, he's incapable of realizing very obvious differences in those scenarios because it makes his favorite class look bad.
The fact you're upset about a tf2ber being upset has got me kinda upset, but hey no need to get upset over this, so i hope you're not upset about me being kinda upset about you being upset about this guy being upset, and if your are upset, sorry i made you upset
For people who think random bullet spread should stay for realism : in real life, there are hundreds of tiny projectiles, which basically nullifies the random bullet spread. This is why random bullet spread shouldn't be on shotguns in games, they don't have the amount of projectiles needed to counteract the bullet spread.
9:22 that happens when a spy uses a dead ringer against a decapitating weapon but dies a bit later. Idk why but I’ve been killed by too many demoknights to know this bug.
The sticky trap vs sniper head shot is a good argument, but the person putting it forth was stupid. Let’s break this down. Sticky trap First off you have to find a spot you know players are going to be going often, it’s fairly easy on some maps but can be harder on others, you have to hope there is a good spot to put your trap in the area you want to set it up (some props, a door frame or tight corner) so that people don’t see it and just either shoot it or avoid it. You have to get to said spot which may be deep in the other teams territory meaning you either have to fight your way there or sneak your way there, or best case set it up ahead of time. Then you have to wait who knows how long, keeping an eye on the trap or have someone to call out if other are down there, and time the det just right to kill maybe one or two people if you are lucky. Oh and hope there isn’t a short circuit engi on the other team as he can hit one button and delete all your hard work. Snipers head shot. First you have to pick the sniper class, then find a sight line and hit one button to insta kill a good majority of the roster. Ya, seems like the two are equivalent.
So then just make a mode where only random shotgun spread goes? They could easily program that into the game. Look at the panic attack, it ignores whether RBS is on. Hell in servers with RBS disabled no one complains about mini-guns anyways. What you thought that was a smart counter argument? Like I can feel the smug energy radiating from this, it’s embarrassing.
@@slysamuel5902Bro your smug detector must be defective dude because you got it all wrong. I wasn't suggesting that the bullet spread on the shotgun and minigun were linked, i was trying to highlight the ridiculousness of the bullet spread argument when applied to other weapons.
@@slysamuel5902 Just being overly polarizing for dramatic effect. Subtle suggestion that removing shotgun spread is a compromise with removing bullet spread entirely, which is clearly stupid.
his comment about demo is kinda easily busted, demo needs to go all the way back to his trap, put down at least 3 stickies, go all the way back to a point where he can see the bombs, and not get caught and killed, and even if he does that a scorch shit pyro or a short circuit engineer or even a scottish resistance demo can easily destroy the stickies, while sniper has to look at you with a fully charged bodyshot and wait a second to be prepared to click on another person.
Welcome to the world of gaming. Where slurs, rage, tantrums, screams, and victory cries are the norm. Seriously, I’ve heard more N words in a COD lobby than any real-world racist’s mouth.
No cap, from his short curcuit to the 0.2 second sniper video to competitive must be removed to his weapon tier list to his rbs bs, from the brim to the top he always have shitty takes
This is the same guy who puts the stock Grenade Launcher above the Iron Bomber claiming that the GL technically has higher potential range, without acknowledging the fact that you have very little control over that extra range due to random tumble midair and random bounce on the surfaces, not to mention that "extra range" is extremely tiny. If you wanna try to be a Scottish sniper - Quickiebomb Launcher and Loch-and-Load are there for you
@@Zmeeed01 he puts the gru in c-tier because "why the hell you want to sacrifice some health for speed" , he puts the dds and razorback in a-tier because "it effectively shuts down one of the classes" , he puts the kritzkrieg in c-tier because "you need to be on a discord call to be effective with it" , he puts the rocket jumper in b-tier because "its good when youre meming" but puts the air strike in c-tier eventhough it does better than the rocket jumper objectively, he puts the tide turner in c-tier because "its the worst at pure demoknight", he puts widowmaker in below b-tier because "why would you sacrifice metal for damage", he puts the zatoichi in b-tier because "its a-tier for demoknight but c-tier for demoman which becomes b-tier" ignoring the fact that he puts the goddamn persian persuader in a-tier, he puts the base jumper in the broken bad tier eventhough the benefits are as middling as the manthreads which he puts in c-tier and then he blames competitive, he always blames comp everytime for weapon nerfs eventhough valve is the one whos dogwater at balancing Yea i cant take this guy seriously at all, having an opinion is fine but having shitty points is definitely not
It's a pump action with a magazine tube which for some reason has a magazine port at the end of it, to which the engineer put in a drum mag. It's possible this could reasonably be made, but transferring the shells from magazine to magazine tube sounds unreliable at best, and even worse when using a drum mag.
I might be crazy but the detonator doesn't seem to respond to inputs properly - there's often a delay between right-clicking and exploding, almost like it only works at certain intervals a few frames apart rather than on every frame. It creates situations like this, where it explodes further away from you than it should.
I feel like the reason you do worse with the heatmaker is because you are more incentivized to headshot, so you feel more of a pressure to get headshots.
Agreed, like the fun mechanic included in Smash Bros Brawl: tripping. By the way this comment doesn't actually mean to side with anyone I just thought it would be funny.
Guns, especially shotguns are boring as hell with laser accuracy. Unless its a sniper. Bitching about random bullet spread is a coping mechanism for bad aim.
@@izaakburningham3188 How ? Why would new players shoot at one wall to check if the spread is random ? Why would they think about how shotguns work in real life ? Why do we need realism to tf2 ? Most newer players don't even know that it exists! And if they don't know about that, why do you think they would quit the game if spread was fixed ?
@@dominikcz198 or quit the game if they knew it was random. They just wouldn't care and if they lose they'd just think "damn I was bad, gotta git gud". Is just a non factor. If anything people they should just remove it just so people could stop whining about it.
Personnaly, it's the inverse for me between the Heatmaker and the Stock. For some reason, I'm very basic skilled with Stock, but somehow I hit every heads with the Heatmaker. Maybe it's because I used it a lot when I was an edgy kid (I mean, slick looking sniper rifle with silencer that decapitates enemies...) However, I still really think people are sleeping on the effectiveness of the Focus meter : Not having to descope after each and every shot means you don't need to readjust your aim everytime. And with the +25% charge speed, starting again right after the shot means that when Focused when you're done reloading the charge is almost already at half-full, meaning if you shoot RIGHT AFTER the reload, it deals a 255 headshot damage ; enough to kill even half-overhealed Soldiers. I find the best moment to activate it is to either counter an enemy push or to assist your own team's push. The Focus works its best when there's a lot of enemies in your sightlines, and you're in an at least semi-safe position. Basically, use the Focus like when you'd use the Jarate in a supportive manner.
I main Pyro and one thing that I think is a big reason why nobody really knows what a proper counterplay to him is (besides shooting him) is because I believe Pyro is in a unique position, class balance wise. Pyro has the unique capability of countering every class, yet being countered by every class. In a head to head fight with a competent player, Pyro can both lose and win any matchup, depending on the external factors and if the player got some good sleep that night or not. Pyro has monstrous dps along with good mobility, the only class with near universal access to afterburn, and is _just_ tankier than a mid class. To that effect though, his range is terrible, he doesn't truly excel in any single area, and the player behind him matters more than his loadout. Pyro and Soldier are two sides of the same coin, but in opposite ways.
The point of zesty's video about rbs was it doesn't effect game enough to care about it like it's first priority problems, such as random crits, poor weapon balance, bots, bugs (at least how I understood it) And about demoman traps: dude, come on, stickies can't visualise themselfs in 4 seconds from 5 km, they need to be placed and hidden enough, not guaranteeing that at least one person will walk into them, it's not your control (when you put stickies on choke points, popular places, you almost guaranteed to meet some scouts or smt while you place them), while sniper just need to stand between corner for a couple of seconds and then choose target to hit. I don't agree with point that sniper is op, I Have played class, I Have tryed to train, but got around 1 headshot per game on not standing still targets, it is Hard to aim, it requires a Lot of skill. But point with demoman, dude, yet again, come on, you can't do that P.S. funny clips
14:52 And now we know that gold rush was originally going to be "dustbowl 2" from the 2023 leaks, so yeah goldrush was MADE to be the payload version of dustbowl
I think pyros countering spy as hard as they do should be tweaked, invis should make it so you need to take a few flame particles before you're lit up. Maybe make the volcano fragment revert that so it has utility for spy checking.
Unrealistic shotgun: confetti at long range, fixed pellet pattern Realistic shotgun: has RBS yet very tight spread, deletes your torso downrange What was that on pick and choose? Also, a Demoman has to shoot stickies and right click when an enemy walks by them and cannot emergency trap. A Sniper can right click and left click to deal 150 damage.
If you compare the general layout of each stage of Dustbowl and Goldrush they are actually the same. The same amount of openness, the same style of tunnels, THE SAME CURVES OF THE GENERAL PATH TOWARDS THE MAP END
I feel like people dont realize the design behind sniper,he is designed to be able to kill from long ranges,which is fair,but the thing that makes him op is the time between shots and random crits favoring sniper,time between shots is far too short,and random crits if you get it,the enemy trying to kill you instantly fuckin dies,and if you are hit with a random crit,so what,in a majority of situations that person who fired the Crocket Is gonna be very close to you,and if for some ungodly reason he sees you from the other side of the map,shoots it and you somehow dont dodge it,that's on you
@@sensibledog09 So does every other class, random crits on engineer are completely bullshit, random crits in general are bullshit for like any class, so whats your point about random critting on sniper especially making him op?
@@NeekoSexual sure random crits are complete bs and should be removed,but im saying that its bs in snipers favor(and probably in medics as well) as the class is designed to be weak at close range,but then he pulls out his melee,that has like a 60% chance to kill 7/9 classes in one shot,leaving one to one single smg shot and the other below half,the two surviving being the slowest classes in the game,and factor in that random crits are affected by how much dmg youve done in the last 20 seconds and you basically have a god sniper with nearly guaranteed crits
Yea, the shotguns thing is completely true. If you want shotguns with a wide scatter, give them fixed bullet spread. If you want random bullet spread, tighten the cone. Insurgency Sandstorm does shotguns right because they're devastatingly legal out to a good distance because the spread angle isn't that wide and the pellets, even only one or two, can do major damage
Fun fact a 12 gag pretty much till looks like a big bullet punched straight into someone for at least ten meters so random bullet spread with shotguns in tf2 is baaaaaadly over exaggerated. I personally enjoy playing scout but fuck me do I have to sniff ass if I don't want magically miss sometimes
Most people: mad at fish for having controversial opinions on social issues Me: mad at fish for having a deeply ingrained psychological trauma about maths due to the inedquacies of our schooling system
i think as far as the "random" mechanics bullshit in tf2 goes, being able to adjust to said mechanics proves higher skill than the predictability of otherwise
By devaluing other forms of skill while also ignoring all the times where you're put into a position where the skills you're saying are there flat out wouldn't have any influence because of how the RNG has just screwed you or the opponent over. At that point you're just playing mario party. Sure you can get good at mario party but the reason RNG is even in mario party is to devalue skill so worse players actually can play with better players on the same level because its a silly party game not meant to be taken competatively seriously.
The perfect compromise to the random spread problem is to give the shotgun a set spread but randomize the damage for each pellet, a genius solution that makes everyone happy
Thoughts on a huntsman buff/rework? I’d think hanzo from overwatch is a good template for how to make a bow character balanced and fun and I think an increase in projectile speed combined with a smaller hitbox (as well as a rework to head hitboxes cause those are WACK) would go a long way in making the huntsman reward skill more
To the Random Bullet Spread rant at the start. It has been shown a couple times I believe that random bullet spread doesn't affect shotguns and scatterguns anywhere near as much as people claim they do, and that fixed bullet spread is entirely placebo effect on them being more consistent. Even with random spread, one pellet always goes straight down the center. My opinion on it is that shotguns are fine, they are consistent at the range a shotgun SHOULD be good at (Close range) and fixed bullet spread doesn't change jack shit about them except make me unreasonably annoyed.
what are you even TALKING about it literally physically changes the direction of the bullets that's not a placebo. Also one pellet is like a ninth of the actual gun's damage. Thats barely anything and you're not always going to perfectly hit that one bullet but instead have to rely on all the other pellets. Like what do you MEAN shotguns are meant only for close range, no they're a close AND mid range option. They're not a flame thrower they're meant to give you a longer range poke option as well as be effective at closer ranges. It ruins their mid range use and bullet spread absolutely will make you miss pellets you otherwise would have hit at those ranges or even screw over the opponent and hit them with pellets they would have dodged. Its a complete coinflip. If you're getting annoyed at fighting mid range shot gun blasts with no random spread then no offense but you're kinda just not good at fighting them especially considering they have very harsh damage fall off. Like why do you think pyro, the closest of close ranged classes ith their primary, would have one? If it were just JUST a close range weapon dont you think that'd be really redundant? No the point of pyro for instance having one is specifically because pyro needed a longer range poking tool along with their close range primary. The shotguns are like one of the most balanced thing in tf2 and what you're arguing utterly ruins that.
I know this is a 2 year old topic, but I'd like to throw my hat into the mix. I don't like RBS because it has no reason to exist. It, in fact, does mess with your shotgun damage, especially if you're using something like the shortstop. But even if it didn't make a difference, why even bother with the mechanic? It either makes your damage more random for no reason or is entirely redundant and useless. Either way, scrap it. Still not as bad as random crits tho.
I think people coming up with arguments like "muh realism" in favor of random bullet spread really just think fixed bullet spread looks and feels wrong in practice. I think it does anyway.
Tbh, sniper should get his aim jerked more or taken out of scope to weaken him at closer ranges, cuz a good sniper at close range (where sniper is supposed to be at his weakest) will just quick scope and be done with it. Not too sure on the balance of this idea, just that it’s done in other games and thought it might work. Tbf, good snipers are one in a million though.
I just don’t get it with random bullet spread, like I really don’t see the issue. Yeah “even a small difference is justification” but it’s more of an issue where I feel like people are making big deals of things that I really don’t think are an issue. If random bullet spread was that much of an issue then you’d see it miss much more at close range where it never really does, or, it can’t pick off low health classes from a distance. Which is the pistols job. “But I have Wrangler or Mad Milk so I lose out on low health kills at range” well that’s called a trade off.
"If shotguns worked the way they do in real life in videogames, they'd be infuriating to fight-" Eh, not really. There's a reason that shotguns aren't even used by POLICE as an actual combat weapon anymore, let alone any nation's military. Sure, Police Departments and Militaries USE them, but think about what they use them FOR. Mostly just blowing doors open for breaches and for special loads like less-lethal rubber slugs or the like. The reason is because while dangerous to unarmored targets (because no-sh%t, it's a GUN) is because shot from shotshells can actually penetrate them in large quantity. Armored targets against shotshells, even straight up buckshot, can just get up off their ass and walk it off with little more than a bruise on their chest, even at ridiculously close ranges. So if you had literally any armor on that above Level 2, you're gonna fine if someone comes at you with a shotgun. Now if they come at you with a brush-gun, it's probably over lmao
Don't wanna cause too much tension but you know that people would defend TF2 to their death if random damage spread was still around like random crits and bullet spread only because "Valve good. TF2 good. No criticism allowed."
About the random shotgun spread - Id say random spread feels more intuitive? As a feel for a weapon, like when You throw bunch of small pebbles at a target, You have a limited way of controlling the spread of the pebbles, but throw them like that regardless because of the nature of such attack compared to a single pebble? I dunno just throwing out random thoughts
Honestly I'm in favor of RBS because sometimes the rbs actually has a closer grouping than fbs. also if fbs is made default than what are people going to do to actually take advantage of it, draw a tic tac toe board on their monitor in sharpie? I highly doubt that people are going to tryhard enough to picture the pellet chart over someone every time they use a shotgun and add up the damage.
Another point I tend to see people use in favor of RBS: "It doesn't affect gameplay that much." Alright, then why is it there in the first place? Wouldn't that mean _removing it_ would also change very little?
It's there for balance reasons, so shotguns at long Range are unreliable and you can't chip away as easily at people without using a pistol or I guess the Minigun It's what balances the scout and engineers unlockable secondaries, you have to trade long Range chip damage for some other benefit, such as bonk, milk, or the short circuit (or you can take the Wrangler and win the game instantly)
@@FlamingLily How is that any different when random bullet spread is disabled? Even with normal spread, you cannot to "force" all pellets to hit the target at long range. On miniguns, pistols, smgs and revolvers - it is fine, but on shotguns, it has no reason to stay.
@@dominikcz198 Then let me ask, why on pistols, etc. It's to prevent long Range, rapid sniping The same applies to shotguns, sure not all the pellets will hit, but even worst case, two or more will, being able to consistently fight at longer ranges in team fortress two is not how the game was designed, short of certain features most of which are either overpowered or of low enough impact that it is balanced, or it's the heavy who is the one and reasonable exception
Only that he didn't. He used a very specific scenario, with one class hitbox in only one angle then treated the times that rbs does more damage as negligible, because it works on your side, completely ignoring the fact a mechanic needs to be fair and consistent for your opponent as well. His video literary has almost no value. He made it just to further his anti competive sentiment. I would bet 50 bucks that the only reason be made this video is he doesn't like the people who mention it and actually doesn't care about the mechanic.
@@countpythagoras jeez, i can smell you trough my screen, he used the smallest hitbox in the game so the difference between damage would be more noticeable, and even then, it was so small it doesnt even matter, like, rbs has little to no impact on damage, idk why people so hung up about it when random crits exist and have a much bigger impact
@@tscock Many words to say that you don't know how to do basic statistical analysis. It's like saying, yeah, i trust that study with a sample of 5 people. PS. Even if you are right (and you aren't) he still didn't used multiple angles. PS2. You convinently ingored the second criticism. I expected nothing more
@@countpythagoras no one is stopping you from making a better analysis that actually covers all angles, all classes, all weapons, all net settings and such, contribute to the community, dont be like me i guess lol
![[TF2] Double Donk Destruction - Fish Bites](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6npD4AGjQxU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Double Donk Destruction - Fish Bites](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] The Highs and Lows of Casual - Fish Bites](/img/1.gif)
I think the whole "Placebo Effect" with the Heatmaker is because of it's firing sound being quieter and weaker, so it just feels like a weaker sniper.
It also does less damage on a bodyshot
on the contrary my friend. the suppressor makes it feel more powerful to me
Strangely, I feel like I tend to do better with the Heatmaker because of the quiet firing sound since it doesn't disrupt my focus.
@@tristenarctician6910 yep, Placebo is for benefits, Nocebo is for side effects
Have to somewhat disagree, sadly Demoman lacks the ability to call upon the power of all Scotsman past present and future to materialize 8 stickies from the ether directly beneath the feet of his opponents to send them straight to hell the near instant he sees them, he is limited by the mortal constraint of being forced to place said stickies in advance and then wait for somebody to walk on it for 10 minutes and do the shadenfreude when he eventually kills eric_mendez_2007
yeah claiming that stickies are essentially the same thing is a pretty flawed counter argument
The question was "name something else than headshot that can one shot enemies at any range".
They never specified anything about setup time. Just asked about abilities that can one-shot from accross the map.
Stickies can do that. Hell, even a SINGULAR QUICKIE can do that (on squishy enemies) if you learn/master the arc of the bomb.
And to headshot anything more than a squishy in one-shot you have to wait for at least 1.5 to 2 seconds, even more if they're overhealed. And even more for a freshly spawn with the Bazaar Bargain. So don't act like headshots don't require "setup time" either.
I don’t think they were complaining that sniper has no set up time, it’s that it’s way too short for how much damage it can do. Sure quickies are annoying because of their slow charge time, but they do have finite range even fully charged, and by the time your done fully charging it and it gets close enough to one shot the sniper, unless they didn’t see you the entire time there’s a very high chance they’ll just turn around and insta kill you if you don’t have full health, or if you do, leave you seriously damaged, unless you have a pocket medic, leaving their team to finish you off. Oh yeah also snipers have psychic powers to move whenever they’re in some kind of danger, especially taunt kills. It happens so many goddamn times to me, I have a sniper right there, it’s over, their keyboard seems like it’s dead, I begin to taunt kill, and with no provocation, they move out of the way without even knowing you exist, just, “hey I should move”.
I would argue that stickies are a bit strong though. Like they're the only projectile that really pyro cant reliably get rid of by airblasting and they're an absurdly versitile bomb that can do high rocket level damage from MANY ranges, exist , have a controlable projectile speed, and a clip the size of an airstrike. There should probably be a few more options with getting rid of traps imo. They have GLARING weaknesses though and their start up time means that demo cant really use them for close self defense, if he's using them for a trap he cant really use them to actually fight without destroying that trap, and unlike demoman the sniper has a bunch of secondaries to counter his counters and the, admittedly really impressive and usually skill reliant, close range head shot doesnt really hurt sniper even if it lands unlike demo who even on hit takes self damage. Theres something to be said about the fact that in high level play demo is THE strongest class next to medic to the point of being limited to 1 but also he's op in a way that most people really dont mind or actively find kinda fun to fight because of just how exploitable his weaknesses are for even much worse players vs a good player. He really doesnt have the same level of options sniper does nor can he consecutively one shot person after person nor be as aggressive about it since they have to come to him and walk into his traps. If he's spamming he still has to two shot usually. Its why demo is way more common than sniper in 6s but why both are some of the strongest classes in highlander and why you dont see aimbot demos like you do snipers even though projectile aimbots do exist. Plus here's the thing, people forget this but demo used to be able to one shot classes with the lock and load and unlike sticky traps people DID have an issue with that because he could keep that sustain up and didnt leave himself vulnerable afterwards. If a sticky trap is detonated or destroyed that's such a time sink for demo that he cant really reliably make another trap to stop the push like a sniper can rescope. He can sticky spam sure but he has to land multiple shots at that point assuming they're not right in his face.
@@drucy. I mean like half the game is squishy characters including the most important one medic as well as sniper himself
i love how fsoas tries to make zesty mad in every fish bites
And sadly it doesn't really work. I wonder if he even knows who he is
@@Nicky2414 he does, in the video under the gas passer he did put up a comment that he was also making a video on it and wasn't sure whether or not to upload it as they go over the same points.
doing gods work
Zesty is always mad
@@mattthekiller9129 Well, yeah i guess thats true
didn't think we'd start off with based talk about RBS on shotguns. good point btw. never thought about how "realism" is being cherrypicked when it's used in favor of RBS.
Also it makes the Panic Attack more special
RBS seems to just be a fact in TF2, though. SMGs, Pistols and Miniguns also have spread, though I suppose that is par for the course for automatics in video games other than like, counter strike.
How anyone could argue "It's good because realism" in a game like TF2 where half the guns make 0 sense is beyond me. RBS is just dumb
@@Juli_is_Online Realism can be good.
Like, you design a gun in a video game. How does it work? It's much easier to just look at how they work in real life.
But, you want to introduce nuance and have different guns with upsides and downsides, different traits. How do you do that? Again, it's easy to just take from real life.
Shotguns with a closer range but higher damage, lower clipsize and one-at-a-time reloads, rifles that can spray automatic fire but are innacurate, and so on.
It's handy.
@@Juli_is_Online it makes gun more like gun, without affecting damage that much, otherwise all guns would have to be shooting one hitscan that does all the work, so it would be tye most consistent one of them all
Whenever anyone brings up keeping random bullet spread on shotguns I think about Payday 2 and how that game’s shotguns deal full damage in a pellet but only one pellet counts as damage if any hit an enemy. It’s not realistic but it makes shotguns a lot more fun to use.
PD2 shotguns are fun, but that mechanic does have an annoying downside; in very close quarters, shotguns become less effective. If you connect 8 pellets into an enemy, it only counts the highest damage pellet, effectively wasting the rest of the shot.
Damage on shotguns is high enough that this is only a real issue with Bulldozers or weaker shotguns against specials, but it has gotten me downed a few times too many.
PD2, however, is PVE, not PVP. It's not necessary to balance the game around making it fair for both sides because one side are unthinking unfeeling automated shooting machines (who are also AI controlled) and the other side is players.
PVE allows you to make it fun for one side without caring about the other side
6:12 Fun Fact: the equivalent to the Placebo effect when referring to expecting a side effect is called the Nocebo effect
Stickytrap has mechanical limitations, you can't make stickytrap from a great distance excluding quicky (have to be close enough), you have to reload, you have to know when to detonate (either line of sight, map mechanics such as cart or external line of sight telling you), you have to prepare the trap (time investment), the enemy can see the trap or just don't walk into it (can be avoided for sure, it's about skill of trapping, but not everywhere, not in any scenario). Sniper headshots only have three minor mechanic limitations: line of sight (which literally everything already have as limitation but stickytraps and sentries if you count that), (pretty short) reload time after shot and (almost nonexistent) scoping time. Everything else is skill limits. Sniper puts too much, WAY too much to skill limits. Nobody's arguing landing headshots consistently is easy. It's hard. But the skill ceiling for sniper has a size of fucking scyscraper. It's too much. Try fighting heavy aimbot and sniper aimbot, you'll see the difference right away.
IMHO make headshots mechanically impossible from short distance excluding hunstman. Or nerf close headshot damage, like reverse ambassador.
really sniper's skill ceiling is the inverse of pyros and a perfect showcase on why you shouldnt balance something in a game like tf2 purely on how hard it is to do because you end up with a situation where pyro is really hard punishing bad players but becomes increasingly useless as the general skill of a match is increased to the point his only use in high level play is just denying uber and also acting as a kinda meh body guard in highlander. Where as bad snipers are an out right liability to their team but as the general skill of the sniper and match are increased he becomes more and more of a dominant force until you end up with him being like one of the best classes easy in things like high lander comp play and the only like class people consistantly will switch off scout for in 6s when being aggressive, and I mean consistantly switch to not just an out there unexpected switch to catch people off guard like say a spy pick on offense. Its also enabled bots being able to exploit his exponential skill sky to just fuck over the entire game's servers outright. No other class can do what sniper does to this level, even heavy bots are counterable kinda easy really if you know what to do, assuming there's no vacinator bots with them since that item is utterly busted in its own right. And no sticky traps are not able to do what sniper can neither, they're a one and done thing that literally has entire items and arguably classes that can just nullify them and let a team pass unbothered. You dont have to counter an ENTIRE class just to get rid of them and the class cant just repeatively do it over and over without punishment if they miss/have their trap destroyed the first time to the sheer level sniper can.
5:05 isn't he right though??
A sticky trap needs a bigger investment to pull off. Like you have to have BEEN there to place it, spend a while doing so and hope it isn't removed by the time you go somewhere far away to wait. Oh and it's in a limited area
Or you can click on someone really hard
Not trying to prove a point, dunno what the guy was even arguing for but sticky traps ARE vastly inferior to sniper
I've noticed that fish doesn't actually know what he's talking about in regards to a lot of this stuff
I pretty sure they were talking about it damage wise, and yes I do agree that a sticky trap is a bigger investment then Sniper.
Also you can see the sticky trap a lot easier than you can a sniper
Fish has a horrible case of sniper brain, he's incapable of realizing very obvious differences in those scenarios because it makes his favorite class look bad.
He’s absolutely correct. They aren’t the same and FSOAS saying it in a silly voice doesn’t make it any less true
Here we see the defensive Sniper main try to claim 8 stickies under someone's feet at long range are on equal standing as quick scoping.
Closest I can call would be a long-bomb quickiebomb shot, the likes of which are frag video GOLD.
it can kill from across the map. that's the question.
Not exactly upset about it, but this guy is semi-angry in about 75% of this series.
And mad about things he does, but only when other players do it.
@@braedenmclean5304 tru.
thats one of the reasons for why i like him honestly, he is actually a human being and doesnt try to cover it up to seem more respectable or whatever.
The fact you're upset about a tf2ber being upset has got me kinda upset, but hey no need to get upset over this, so i hope you're not upset about me being kinda upset about you being upset about this guy being upset, and if your are upset, sorry i made you upset
@@mattthekiller9129 I wasn't upset. That would be dumb. If it really bothered me, I would just not watch the video.
For people who think random bullet spread should stay for realism : in real life, there are hundreds of tiny projectiles, which basically nullifies the random bullet spread. This is why random bullet spread shouldn't be on shotguns in games, they don't have the amount of projectiles needed to counteract the bullet spread.
"everytime someone disagrees with me about a videogame, they poop themselvs, this is my stand (FISH BITE)"
9:22 that happens when a spy uses a dead ringer against a decapitating weapon but dies a bit later. Idk why but I’ve been killed by too many demoknights to know this bug.
The sticky trap vs sniper head shot is a good argument, but the person putting it forth was stupid. Let’s break this down.
Sticky trap
First off you have to find a spot you know players are going to be going often, it’s fairly easy on some maps but can be harder on others, you have to hope there is a good spot to put your trap in the area you want to set it up (some props, a door frame or tight corner) so that people don’t see it and just either shoot it or avoid it. You have to get to said spot which may be deep in the other teams territory meaning you either have to fight your way there or sneak your way there, or best case set it up ahead of time. Then you have to wait who knows how long, keeping an eye on the trap or have someone to call out if other are down there, and time the det just right to kill maybe one or two people if you are lucky. Oh and hope there isn’t a short circuit engi on the other team as he can hit one button and delete all your hard work.
Snipers head shot.
First you have to pick the sniper class, then find a sight line and hit one button to insta kill a good majority of the roster.
Ya, seems like the two are equivalent.
5:11 Must say, one takes set up time while also losing your 1 out of 2 primaries with constant watch or random chance to get that instant kill
I could vividly picture your brain leaking out of your ears when you compared sticky traps to headshots
it can kill from across the map. that was the question, and his answer is correct.
If we remove the Shotgun bullet spread, the Minigun spread goes too.
No compromises
So then just make a mode where only random shotgun spread goes? They could easily program that into the game. Look at the panic attack, it ignores whether RBS is on. Hell in servers with RBS disabled no one complains about mini-guns anyways. What you thought that was a smart counter argument? Like I can feel the smug energy radiating from this, it’s embarrassing.
@@slysamuel5902Bro your smug detector must be defective dude because you got it all wrong. I wasn't suggesting that the bullet spread on the shotgun and minigun were linked, i was trying to highlight the ridiculousness of the bullet spread argument when applied to other weapons.
@@akleughuglouh
What’s with the no compromises part?
@@slysamuel5902 Just being overly polarizing for dramatic effect. Subtle suggestion that removing shotgun spread is a compromise with removing bullet spread entirely, which is clearly stupid.
3:10 as the guy who SOLD elmaxo that collectors classic, all I can say is lmaoooo
Random damage spread is why demo was utterly infuriating for years
"Yknow what? This is perfect *screams*"
Yep sums up how it feels to play engineer sometimes
his comment about demo is kinda easily busted, demo needs to go all the way back to his trap, put down at least 3 stickies, go all the way back to a point where he can see the bombs, and not get caught and killed, and even if he does that a scorch shit pyro or a short circuit engineer or even a scottish resistance demo can easily destroy the stickies, while sniper has to look at you with a fully charged bodyshot and wait a second to be prepared to click on another person.
I watch this and it makes me realize how toxic people can get, over a game
What do Sniper mains and Britney Spears have in common?
Toxic.
@@caramelldansen2204 mhm
Welcome to the world of gaming. Where slurs, rage, tantrums, screams, and victory cries are the norm.
Seriously, I’ve heard more N words in a COD lobby than any real-world racist’s mouth.
@@sweg-man200 welcome to the internet, have a look around!
16:55 perfect example, just mad that the other guy has an advantage
The hidden truth is that Zesty is full of bad takes top to bottom
You know what they say, hot takes come free
No cap, from his short curcuit to the 0.2 second sniper video to competitive must be removed to his weapon tier list to his rbs bs, from the brim to the top he always have shitty takes
This is the same guy who puts the stock Grenade Launcher above the Iron Bomber claiming that the GL technically has higher potential range, without acknowledging the fact that you have very little control over that extra range due to random tumble midair and random bounce on the surfaces, not to mention that "extra range" is extremely tiny. If you wanna try to be a Scottish sniper - Quickiebomb Launcher and Loch-and-Load are there for you
@@Zmeeed01 he puts the gru in c-tier because "why the hell you want to sacrifice some health for speed" , he puts the dds and razorback in a-tier because "it effectively shuts down one of the classes" , he puts the kritzkrieg in c-tier because "you need to be on a discord call to be effective with it" , he puts the rocket jumper in b-tier because "its good when youre meming" but puts the air strike in c-tier eventhough it does better than the rocket jumper objectively, he puts the tide turner in c-tier because "its the worst at pure demoknight", he puts widowmaker in below b-tier because "why would you sacrifice metal for damage", he puts the zatoichi in b-tier because "its a-tier for demoknight but c-tier for demoman which becomes b-tier" ignoring the fact that he puts the goddamn persian persuader in a-tier, he puts the base jumper in the broken bad tier eventhough the benefits are as middling as the manthreads which he puts in c-tier and then he blames competitive, he always blames comp everytime for weapon nerfs eventhough valve is the one whos dogwater at balancing
Yea i cant take this guy seriously at all, having an opinion is fine but having shitty points is definitely not
How shotguns work in real life? Have y’all looked at the panic attack before, how the fuck does that thing work?
It's a pump action with a magazine tube which for some reason has a magazine port at the end of it, to which the engineer put in a drum mag. It's possible this could reasonably be made, but transferring the shells from magazine to magazine tube sounds unreliable at best, and even worse when using a drum mag.
@@witchBoi_ConnorReasonably made, but using the drum mag could never be reasonable used lol.
why is this guy always so mad
Some people just take video games a little too seriously
I’ve always enjoyed the streams and the everything that happens in them, so having “bites” of them is great
10:31 I've replayed this like 20 times, and I still don't see how it didn't hit that med.
Source Engine , what else do you expect other than the greasy spaghetti code of tf2
I might be crazy but the detonator doesn't seem to respond to inputs properly - there's often a delay between right-clicking and exploding, almost like it only works at certain intervals a few frames apart rather than on every frame. It creates situations like this, where it explodes further away from you than it should.
1:38 Zesty tends to have bad takes, so ya know
"I have the doots, who wants to shoots" is now my favorite line
I feel like the reason you do worse with the heatmaker is because you are more incentivized to headshot, so you feel more of a pressure to get headshots.
That Shaggy impression at 9:42 got me dead wtf 💀🤣
Random bullet spread is fun, fight me
Agreed, like the fun mechanic included in Smash Bros Brawl: tripping.
By the way this comment doesn't actually mean to side with anyone I just thought it would be funny.
@@ZachBat fun as the game is more boring without it
@@LinkDawnbringer I disagree tbh but yeah
**loads shotgun** **nine pellets miss** *-9*
Guns, especially shotguns are boring as hell with laser accuracy. Unless its a sniper. Bitching about random bullet spread is a coping mechanism for bad aim.
I don't think most new players even realize that there's a random bullet spread.
I would think most new players assume it's there as it's a god damn shotgun
@@izaakburningham3188 How ? Why would new players shoot at one wall to check if the spread is random ? Why would they think about how shotguns work in real life ? Why do we need realism to tf2 ? Most newer players don't even know that it exists! And if they don't know about that, why do you think they would quit the game if spread was fixed ?
@@dominikcz198 or quit the game if they knew it was random. They just wouldn't care and if they lose they'd just think "damn I was bad, gotta git gud".
Is just a non factor. If anything people they should just remove it just so people could stop whining about it.
@@regionfuego6 Exactly. Random bullet spread accomplishes nothing, it has no reason to stay.
30 Seconds in and hes moaning about random bullet spread like a true tryhard.
For me half the time it pulls some looney tunes bullet outline bullshit
Personnaly, it's the inverse for me between the Heatmaker and the Stock.
For some reason, I'm very basic skilled with Stock, but somehow I hit every heads with the Heatmaker.
Maybe it's because I used it a lot when I was an edgy kid (I mean, slick looking sniper rifle with silencer that decapitates enemies...)
However, I still really think people are sleeping on the effectiveness of the Focus meter :
Not having to descope after each and every shot means you don't need to readjust your aim everytime.
And with the +25% charge speed, starting again right after the shot means that when Focused when you're done reloading the charge is almost already at half-full, meaning if you shoot RIGHT AFTER the reload, it deals a 255 headshot damage ; enough to kill even half-overhealed Soldiers.
I find the best moment to activate it is to either counter an enemy push or to assist your own team's push.
The Focus works its best when there's a lot of enemies in your sightlines, and you're in an at least semi-safe position.
Basically, use the Focus like when you'd use the Jarate in a supportive manner.
I main Pyro and one thing that I think is a big reason why nobody really knows what a proper counterplay to him is (besides shooting him) is because I believe Pyro is in a unique position, class balance wise. Pyro has the unique capability of countering every class, yet being countered by every class. In a head to head fight with a competent player, Pyro can both lose and win any matchup, depending on the external factors and if the player got some good sleep that night or not. Pyro has monstrous dps along with good mobility, the only class with near universal access to afterburn, and is _just_ tankier than a mid class. To that effect though, his range is terrible, he doesn't truly excel in any single area, and the player behind him matters more than his loadout.
Pyro and Soldier are two sides of the same coin, but in opposite ways.
The point of zesty's video about rbs was it doesn't effect game enough to care about it like it's first priority problems, such as random crits, poor weapon balance, bots, bugs (at least how I understood it)
And about demoman traps: dude, come on, stickies can't visualise themselfs in 4 seconds from 5 km, they need to be placed and hidden enough, not guaranteeing that at least one person will walk into them, it's not your control (when you put stickies on choke points, popular places, you almost guaranteed to meet some scouts or smt while you place them), while sniper just need to stand between corner for a couple of seconds and then choose target to hit.
I don't agree with point that sniper is op, I Have played class, I Have tryed to train, but got around 1 headshot per game on not standing still targets, it is Hard to aim, it requires a Lot of skill. But point with demoman, dude, yet again, come on, you can't do that
P.S. funny clips
someone buy him a collector's classic
Alright
Someone buy ME a collector's Classic? ,':)
@@unholymackerel8072 alright
I want a classic strangifier
@@TheWither129 *no*
14:52 And now we know that gold rush was originally going to be "dustbowl 2" from the 2023 leaks, so yeah goldrush was MADE to be the payload version of dustbowl
>community college dropout
>sniper main
checks out
You could say that RBS in unrealistic games is still a thing, just look at Borderlands or even Doom
2:15 ish
"yknow what this is perfect" after sentry jumping up on top of a crate
gets hit by a soldier
A-
9:34 Choose your excuse
Wouldn't the demoman sticky trap count as at least 3 attacks since you need to shoot out 3 stickies to kill any class in the game?
When gold rush tells you “you’re going to pl_dustbowl” and you can’t rtv
15:08 Least angry spy after being killed by a Pyro
I think pyros countering spy as hard as they do should be tweaked, invis should make it so you need to take a few flame particles before you're lit up. Maybe make the volcano fragment revert that so it has utility for spy checking.
Unrealistic shotgun: confetti at long range, fixed pellet pattern
Realistic shotgun: has RBS yet very tight spread, deletes your torso downrange
What was that on pick and choose?
Also, a Demoman has to shoot stickies and right click when an enemy walks by them and cannot emergency trap.
A Sniper can right click and left click to deal 150 damage.
Ok Fish being angry about random things and just fucking hilarious things happening around him as he talks is so goddamn funny
Watching him get all salty and pissed off at the pyro, all the while pyro is just like “lol that was funny good job man” is such a great moment
sticky trap can kill from across the map, but you have to set up it first, so you cant just spam traps *proceeds to shit myself
14:54 THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING
If you compare the general layout of each stage of Dustbowl and Goldrush they are actually the same. The same amount of openness, the same style of tunnels, THE SAME CURVES OF THE GENERAL PATH TOWARDS THE MAP END
I feel like people dont realize the design behind sniper,he is designed to be able to kill from long ranges,which is fair,but the thing that makes him op is the time between shots and random crits favoring sniper,time between shots is far too short,and random crits if you get it,the enemy trying to kill you instantly fuckin dies,and if you are hit with a random crit,so what,in a majority of situations that person who fired the Crocket Is gonna be very close to you,and if for some ungodly reason he sees you from the other side of the map,shoots it and you somehow dont dodge it,that's on you
Sniper doesn't have random crits on his sniper rifle.
@@dominikcz198 I mean his melees,
Ah, okay.
@@sensibledog09 So does every other class, random crits on engineer are completely bullshit, random crits in general are bullshit for like any class, so whats your point about random critting on sniper especially making him op?
@@NeekoSexual sure random crits are complete bs and should be removed,but im saying that its bs in snipers favor(and probably in medics as well) as the class is designed to be weak at close range,but then he pulls out his melee,that has like a 60% chance to kill 7/9 classes in one shot,leaving one to one single smg shot and the other below half,the two surviving being the slowest classes in the game,and factor in that random crits are affected by how much dmg youve done in the last 20 seconds and you basically have a god sniper with nearly guaranteed crits
Yea, the shotguns thing is completely true. If you want shotguns with a wide scatter, give them fixed bullet spread. If you want random bullet spread, tighten the cone. Insurgency Sandstorm does shotguns right because they're devastatingly legal out to a good distance because the spread angle isn't that wide and the pellets, even only one or two, can do major damage
2:21
Alright yknow what, this is perfe- AA
Fun fact a 12 gag pretty much till looks like a big bullet punched straight into someone for at least ten meters so random bullet spread with shotguns in tf2 is baaaaaadly over exaggerated. I personally enjoy playing scout but fuck me do I have to sniff ass if I don't want magically miss sometimes
You were four parallel universes ahead of that pyro
I'm glad that Fish is slowly becoming more and more of a spy main with each Fish Bite
idk how i never considered the loose canon and the scottish resistance. that feels like it'd be fun af ngl
Most people: mad at fish for having controversial opinions on social issues
Me: mad at fish for having a deeply ingrained psychological trauma about maths due to the inedquacies of our schooling system
6:05 sounded like Jerma for a sec
Random Bullet Spread is RNG keeping you humble.
0:20 THANK YOU
Gold rush, dust bowl, and turbine are the greatest maps ever made
Has anyone ever told you that your laugh is sort of similar to that of Schaffrillas Productions?
9:10 that laugh was unhinged.
15:35 i checked this frame by frame. this kill was literally frame perfect. the round resets the exact same frame that he dies.
Random bullet spread is litterally just random damage spread on shotguns only
i think as far as the "random" mechanics bullshit in tf2 goes, being able to adjust to said mechanics proves higher skill than the predictability of otherwise
By devaluing other forms of skill while also ignoring all the times where you're put into a position where the skills you're saying are there flat out wouldn't have any influence because of how the RNG has just screwed you or the opponent over. At that point you're just playing mario party. Sure you can get good at mario party but the reason RNG is even in mario party is to devalue skill so worse players actually can play with better players on the same level because its a silly party game not meant to be taken competatively seriously.
14:40 AYO THAS ME???
Ty for the vid
Payday 2 actually has more "realistic" shotgun range. I have quotes because you can Snipe peeps with it.
14:01 COULDNT YOU SEE THE BLOODY BOMBS
7:42 nice transition
The perfect compromise to the random spread problem is to give the shotgun a set spread but randomize the damage for each pellet, a genius solution that makes everyone happy
Need this tbh
@@slysamuel5902 no I'm an absolute genius, this idea is 300iq
Thoughts on a huntsman buff/rework? I’d think hanzo from overwatch is a good template for how to make a bow character balanced and fun and I think an increase in projectile speed combined with a smaller hitbox (as well as a rework to head hitboxes cause those are WACK) would go a long way in making the huntsman reward skill more
To the Random Bullet Spread rant at the start. It has been shown a couple times I believe that random bullet spread doesn't affect shotguns and scatterguns anywhere near as much as people claim they do, and that fixed bullet spread is entirely placebo effect on them being more consistent. Even with random spread, one pellet always goes straight down the center. My opinion on it is that shotguns are fine, they are consistent at the range a shotgun SHOULD be good at (Close range) and fixed bullet spread doesn't change jack shit about them except make me unreasonably annoyed.
what are you even TALKING about it literally physically changes the direction of the bullets that's not a placebo. Also one pellet is like a ninth of the actual gun's damage. Thats barely anything and you're not always going to perfectly hit that one bullet but instead have to rely on all the other pellets. Like what do you MEAN shotguns are meant only for close range, no they're a close AND mid range option. They're not a flame thrower they're meant to give you a longer range poke option as well as be effective at closer ranges. It ruins their mid range use and bullet spread absolutely will make you miss pellets you otherwise would have hit at those ranges or even screw over the opponent and hit them with pellets they would have dodged. Its a complete coinflip. If you're getting annoyed at fighting mid range shot gun blasts with no random spread then no offense but you're kinda just not good at fighting them especially considering they have very harsh damage fall off. Like why do you think pyro, the closest of close ranged classes ith their primary, would have one? If it were just JUST a close range weapon dont you think that'd be really redundant? No the point of pyro for instance having one is specifically because pyro needed a longer range poking tool along with their close range primary. The shotguns are like one of the most balanced thing in tf2 and what you're arguing utterly ruins that.
I know this is a 2 year old topic, but I'd like to throw my hat into the mix. I don't like RBS because it has no reason to exist. It, in fact, does mess with your shotgun damage, especially if you're using something like the shortstop. But even if it didn't make a difference, why even bother with the mechanic? It either makes your damage more random for no reason or is entirely redundant and useless. Either way, scrap it. Still not as bad as random crits tho.
That cut at 2:23 killed me
I think people coming up with arguments like "muh realism" in favor of random bullet spread really just think fixed bullet spread looks and feels wrong in practice. I think it does anyway.
Tbh, sniper should get his aim jerked more or taken out of scope to weaken him at closer ranges, cuz a good sniper at close range (where sniper is supposed to be at his weakest) will just quick scope and be done with it. Not too sure on the balance of this idea, just that it’s done in other games and thought it might work. Tbf, good snipers are one in a million though.
That last sentence of yours explains why this change is unecessary.
Tf2 shotguns are sawed off
11:00
Had me dying.
man i recently came back to tf2 after so many years and wow do I suck haha
Fish is almost as good as Candice
Who’s fish?
@@braedenmclean5304 Joe Mama
Random spread on shotguns is overblown and effects you little most of the time when enabled
Idk how to feel about this intro
I just don’t get it with random bullet spread, like I really don’t see the issue. Yeah “even a small difference is justification” but it’s more of an issue where I feel like people are making big deals of things that I really don’t think are an issue. If random bullet spread was that much of an issue then you’d see it miss much more at close range where it never really does, or, it can’t pick off low health classes from a distance. Which is the pistols job. “But I have Wrangler or Mad Milk so I lose out on low health kills at range” well that’s called a trade off.
Do mimicrit rockets that are reflected stay minicrit rockets or become like double minicrit or medium crit rockets?
"If shotguns worked the way they do in real life in videogames, they'd be infuriating to fight-"
Eh, not really. There's a reason that shotguns aren't even used by POLICE as an actual combat weapon anymore, let alone any nation's military.
Sure, Police Departments and Militaries USE them, but think about what they use them FOR.
Mostly just blowing doors open for breaches and for special loads like less-lethal rubber slugs or the like.
The reason is because while dangerous to unarmored targets (because no-sh%t, it's a GUN) is because shot from shotshells can actually penetrate them in large quantity.
Armored targets against shotshells, even straight up buckshot, can just get up off their ass and walk it off with little more than a bruise on their chest, even at ridiculously close ranges.
So if you had literally any armor on that above Level 2, you're gonna fine if someone comes at you with a shotgun.
Now if they come at you with a brush-gun, it's probably over lmao
All of this, completely irrelevant to his points
And this is a game where a well placed punch can kill in one hit.
Shotgun stopping power is kind of a moot point.
Don't wanna cause too much tension but you know that people would defend TF2 to their death if random damage spread was still around like random crits and bullet spread only because "Valve good. TF2 good. No criticism allowed."
this is called karma 7:07
Simply a skill disparity.
Can you make a video on the Machina or Heatmaker?
About the random shotgun spread - Id say random spread feels more intuitive? As a feel for a weapon, like when You throw bunch of small pebbles at a target, You have a limited way of controlling the spread of the pebbles, but throw them like that regardless because of the nature of such attack compared to a single pebble?
I dunno just throwing out random thoughts
Honestly I'm in favor of RBS because sometimes the rbs actually has a closer grouping than fbs. also if fbs is made default than what are people going to do to actually take advantage of it, draw a tic tac toe board on their monitor in sharpie? I highly doubt that people are going to tryhard enough to picture the pellet chart over someone every time they use a shotgun and add up the damage.
But that's the problem it's sometimes closer, it's not consistent and your damage can be completely random so it's a more frustrating mechanic
Another point I tend to see people use in favor of RBS: "It doesn't affect gameplay that much."
Alright, then why is it there in the first place? Wouldn't that mean _removing it_ would also change very little?
It's there for balance reasons, so shotguns at long Range are unreliable and you can't chip away as easily at people without using a pistol or I guess the Minigun
It's what balances the scout and engineers unlockable secondaries, you have to trade long Range chip damage for some other benefit, such as bonk, milk, or the short circuit (or you can take the Wrangler and win the game instantly)
@@FlamingLily How is that any different when random bullet spread is disabled? Even with normal spread, you cannot to "force" all pellets to hit the target at long range. On miniguns, pistols, smgs and revolvers - it is fine, but on shotguns, it has no reason to stay.
@@dominikcz198 Then let me ask, why on pistols, etc.
It's to prevent long Range, rapid sniping
The same applies to shotguns, sure not all the pellets will hit, but even worst case, two or more will, being able to consistently fight at longer ranges in team fortress two is not how the game was designed, short of certain features most of which are either overpowered or of low enough impact that it is balanced, or it's the heavy who is the one and reasonable exception
the kung pow reference lol
6:39 That might be a medic bot?
Is it just me or are there some old clips here? Good video tho as usual
gabriel newell
Zesty did the math on rbs, it only matters at longer ranges, otherwise you just need to aim better.
Zesty is ALWAYS right, definitely never wrong
Only that he didn't. He used a very specific scenario, with one class hitbox in only one angle then treated the times that rbs does more damage as negligible, because it works on your side, completely ignoring the fact a mechanic needs to be fair and consistent for your opponent as well.
His video literary has almost no value. He made it just to further his anti competive sentiment. I would bet 50 bucks that the only reason be made this video is he doesn't like the people who mention it and actually doesn't care about the mechanic.
@@countpythagoras jeez, i can smell you trough my screen, he used the smallest hitbox in the game so the difference between damage would be more noticeable, and even then, it was so small it doesnt even matter, like, rbs has little to no impact on damage, idk why people so hung up about it when random crits exist and have a much bigger impact
@@tscock Many words to say that you don't know how to do basic statistical analysis.
It's like saying, yeah, i trust that study with a sample of 5 people.
PS. Even if you are right (and you aren't) he still didn't used multiple angles.
PS2. You convinently ingored the second criticism. I expected nothing more
@@countpythagoras no one is stopping you from making a better analysis that actually covers all angles, all classes, all weapons, all net settings and such, contribute to the community, dont be like me i guess lol
Fish can’t play tf2 for shid