The captions have probably taken a lot of work. I really appreciate it. I'm not a native speaker, and although I usually don't need them anymore they used to be of great help
Unfortunately, the captions make the video completely inaccessible to me, because I’m ADHD. Trying to read and listen at the same time sends me into sensory overload. Closed captions (which can be turned on and off by the viewer) are the better option, despite how difficult YT and other platforms make it for creators to utilize.
the fact that you were accused of murder for having a miscarriage is absolutely heartbreaking. imagine the psychological pain it put those people through
@@mistybraun9973 I mean abortion is absolutely murder though.. I'm not a Mormon..I just have a functioning front cortex and I'm not a psychopath that doesn't possess any qualms about killing a child...
Yeah, talk to woman in Texas, Georgia and Mississippi, they can tell you what that is like. When their life is in danger bc the child has health problems and will die in your womb and can cause you to die as well. For me that is a good reason for abortion.
As a woman who's had 2 miscarriages, the amount of irrational guilt you have is overwhelming. I can't imagine what those poor moms have had to do to overcome being told that they murdered their child. I've listened to a lot on FLDS & haven't heard that terrible piece before. Thank you for sharing your story so that we can learn more & hopefully show support & love to survivors. 💜
As I was watching this I found out John Y. Barlow is my great great uncle. I can’t even describe how uncomfortable I am watching this knowing I have cousins who are married to their uncles. My mother was told, by my grandpa, that she and 2 of her sisters were to marry their uncle. They ran away cause they were NOT going to do that. I am super happy she made that decision as a teenager cause I’m sure I would have had the same fate. I hope more people can get away from this sick cult.
Agreed! I'm an old lady and in working on my family genealogy I came across something that lead to a memory of a 'family' showing up at my parents property back in the late '60's that started making sense to me. This man, an older wife and 2 daughters?? (I think I wrongly assumed they were daughters) drove up in a weird type of van and called himself family to us. Long story, but my dad got mad and told him to leave the property and never come back. I haven't figured out the genealogy entirely (gee I wonder why!) yet, but that very odd experience set me to learning about these types of religions. I'm so glad I wasn't put in that situation.
You probably wouldn't have been even conceived if she was to marry her uncle! You are npt responsible at all for being genetically related to that Barlow person, nor any of us for what our blood relatives do or have done.. Let us search for Peace.
Wow I’m impressed your mom and 2 of her sisters had the strength to leave the only life they knew and create a different life. They are heroes. Would read their life story if you or somebody can write it.
The comment about switching from being a victim to a perpetrator and the timeline at which that occurs is an incredibly important insight. Yes, we can have sympathy for those who were indoctrinated from a young age, especially girls and women, but also we have to understand that all of us--whether inside or outside of cultish groups--do take on responsibility for those around us as we enter adulthood and must reconsider how we were raised and the lessons we were taught in order to understand what harms those around us may be perpetuating (even if they are generally "nice people").
Absolutely! I love how this guy correctly perceives and refuses to accept or feel okay about what he was put through by evil humans. I don't get that cringe feeling from him that I get from some others who are to this day trying to justify/minimize this cult. Kudos buddy! 🥰
No but I do get a bit of wanna be prophet from him. I think he is really brave and I know he has had to be really proud of his accomplishments. But there is feeling from him that he knows what’s best and no one else knows better than him. Personally I think a lot of these exFLDS have their own trauma and individual means are needed to help them live their lives as happily as they can. He has a too much pride for my liking and too much dogma. I am enormously impressed by him and so glad he seems to be doing so well. I don’t however think he himself processed his trauma and it may easily down the wrong path.
What a beautiful comment! So well put. This is how we all continue to grow and make it so that the next generations of our society don’t have to suffer in the same ways we did.
@@dianeshelton9592 I agree that it can be extremely hard for people who experienced childhood or adult situations like this to truly leave them. But the point he makes applies to him as it applies to everyone. I think we have to be careful--not paranoid, but careful--that we don't perpetuate harms either by replicating what happened to us, or overcorrecting, or creating a new type of harm. And I think we need to do this every so often, because even those of us lucky enough to escape major traumas can easily become bound up in something that begins to hurt people. From this video, we cannot know what this man is like in his real life and I don't want to speculate here.
I hate that the FLDS church has gotten away with child labor and abuse of all kinds for so long. I truly don't understand how the goverment is able to turn a blind eye to this, especially when more and more people are speaking out. Thanks for sharing, I loved this conversation. And the baby pictures were so stinking cute!!!!
13:35 incredibly powerful response to this question from Dan. "It's given me so much interior strength as a person because I had to dig deep as a child so many times times and you're getting pushed by people that don't care about you. So one of the results of that is either you stop caring about yourself or you REALLY care about yourself and I got the latter: I have a deep love and care for myself." An incredible interview. Great questions by Alyssa. Dan is impressively eloquent. To hear that he stopped school to work full time at 11 years old surprised me; he's a thoughtful and gifted educator. I learned so much from this interview.
Yes. Good tactic. My kid (an adult) has a friend who escaped an FLDS family many years ago. That person left with absolutely nothing but the clothes on their back. A horrible childhood. Eventually many more of their family members joined them. But the first few years were absolutely harrowing.
“it’s better that we suffered than that we turn into the very people who caused us to suffer” is so powerful. i’m going to try to remember that when i suffer
It breaks something deep in my heart every time I hear of children not being protected, especially by the people that put them on the earth. Children are an oppressed class and it is all our responsibility to keep them safe, loved, and away from harm. May the earth be freed of the FLDS and all systems that seek to harm children.
He is an amazing human being and really shows resilience and spiritual strength. Somehow how his light was never dimmed by people who tried to crush and control him.
I can only begin to imagine the amount of hate you get for speaking out, but thank you for doing so. It boggles my mind that this has been going on here in the US for so long & that so little can be done to stop it. We talk about human rights in other parts of the world (don't get me wrong, that's horrible too!) & turn a blind eye to the human trafficking/ forced labor happening in our own back yard.
And in this case it’s constitution labour. But the US praises child labour. As a child I asked my mom why we didn’t have any really famous kids here. It’s because we have extremely strict child labour laws. That’s why most countries besides China, Russia or the US always do really well at the Olympics. It’s just not allowed to have a child train that much in Europe. Sports also doesn’t get you into college or pays for it. Because classes cost between €2000, €500 & €0 a year. If you leave school before 21 the government will also be breathing down your neck to see why you aren’t in any sort of school
@@evelien135We in the US are in a big struggle with MAGA and T**** telling people higher education is bad, that if you go to college you will be brainwashed by liberals. In many ways MAGA is a cult because whatever their cult leader says they believe even if there is proof it’s a lie like that Haitians in Ohio are eating cats and dogs. I’m afraid that like this polygamist leader T** will continue to pull his cult’s strings even if he loses and even if he goes to prison.
What he said about members no longer being victims but perpetrators after a certain age is spot on. I've heard people state that you shouldn't criticize or mock people in cults because they've been brainwashed, but at a certain age you are responsible for the harm you perpetuate by serving a cult and thus brainwashing your own children.
“Your past does not have to define your future.” So profound yet so simple. You both are amazingly strong and amazing people! Thank you for sharing your stories. ❤❤❤❤❤
i don't normally comment on videos but this man is so inspiring . made my day hearing the beautiful things he has to say even after all he has been through ! will be reading his book
This is why I'm against homeschooling. Not only does it diminish the funds available and decrease respect for for public school, but it means adults are allowed to hold their children as PRISONERS with no outside view on how they are being abused.
And so many states have ZERO regulation around homeschooling. I know many people that have completed online homeschooling and received an actual high school diploma, but many homeschooled kids aren’t actually receiving an education. It’s so sad because everyone deserves to receive a proper education
@@LolaLaRue-sq6jm the problem is that some of these organizations have federal and state funded schools and pose as actual schools but are not! Look into cults to consciousness’s podcast with former members of the order!
Just remember that public schools in the US can also be very close to prisons. Black people getting stuck in the school to prison pipeline would benefit greatly from homeschooling. The world isn't so binary.
@@nicolaim4275 But only if they had access to quality education at home. With parents having to work several jobs, or having gone through the same experience you describe for their kids, that's also not guaranteed. Through no fault of the kids or parents, but still.
@@BlackCat69909 True, but trying to curtail abusive home-schooling can hit those who have legitimate secular reasons to look for alternatives to schools that might be worse than nothing.
I’m also neurodivergent (AuDHD), and open captions on a video this long send me into sensory overload. Closed captions are a much better option, because they can be turned off. Open captions can’t be turned off.
@@GhostIntoTheFog that makes sense! I wish the closed captions for RUclips were more accurate. They tend to be really off which really confuses and distracts me :(
@@GhostIntoTheFog with conversations like this where most info is quite centred can you (pinch out to) zoom in on the video a little? Going to 1.1 or 1.2 instead of 1 zoom then shifting the screen down usually blocks captions and still leaves most of the video visible. I know this as I zoom in a little when trying to see craft instruction videos but if the written instructions are down the bottom they be blocked by the zoom in. It's something that means the zoom doesn't always work for me but might be useful for you?
@GhostIntoTheFog It sounds like it's difficult to function generally if that sends you into sensory overload. It's not necessary to look at the screen so this shouldn't be a problem for you. This is just like listening to a podcast.
@@angeladurden3702omg how do you live in the world if this is too much for you?? Captions help countless people with ADHD, hearing problems or a language barrier. Go cry about it.
I do pest control in southern utah. We have several clients that are part of the FLDS community and it is very complicated to complete the pest control services on their properties. We are always followed around the home by a male member of the household and we get our instructions "translated" from the "mother" of the home to us from the male member, these are in general kids. Like 10-15 year olds. They should NOT in in circumstance be following us around and we constantly have to tell them to back up or move up wind from us as we treat the property as they should not be around us as we are applying chemicals around the home that while safe when dry are NOT AT ALL SAFE when in the liquid form. We have a policy that if the wind blows liquid onto your from the sprayer you stop and go straight to a clean water source (generally and water line on the outside of the home) and rise your whole body. They refuse to let us do our work though without being watched by a man as all our techs are men.
Great job with a thoughtful, articulate guest. 👏 👏 👏 Also, What an incredible resume! Poet. Philosopher. Builder. Rescuer. Father. Congrats, sending best wishes to Mom and new baby!
Oh my goodness, Dan. I don't know if you'll ever see this but thank you so much for telling your story. You truly touched my soul and helped me see a shimmer of hope in this life! ❤
Dan, you are so articulate and well verse in mental health.❤ Thank you for breaking this cycle for your child and helping others out of such a corrupt system! Love and light to you!
What he was explaining was an authoritative theocracy, not socialism. Socialism is heavily propagandized and normally mistaken for authoritarian governments
Thank you for pointing this out! I was looking to see if anyone had mentioned it. You can have personal property under socialism, the people/workers own the means of production. Think factories and big businesses. Productions would be co-op and worker owned. Great unintended misinformation catch!
I have written repeatedly regarding those involved in the Jeffs case that the court's greatest mistake was not issuing a permanent (reviewable, of course) no-contact order for any and all victims and their families as well as any other potential victim-families that he was maintaining ongoing relationships with in that community. In many states, that is just part of any conviction of that nature, and the failure to implement one in this case has provided the means for Jeffs to continue victimizing even while he is being held in a psych ward. It would be best if a legal-advocacy organization would take this up and pursue it even now to ensure that these continuing instructions from him and their consequences are shut down.
Dan - you have such a beautiful soul and your words and how you've come to now reframe and view your childhood and all the darkness you survived and yet still be kind and compassionate; I absolutely agree that because of you, your families (both childhood and now) have been shaped in a positive way by you and your kindness and compassion. I'm grateful that there are fathers like you out there supporting families
Alyssa - this was such a great interview and might be my favorite video purely because of Dan’s loving and healing vibes that are such a breath of fresh air in a very heavy subject matter ♥️
You're channel is so helpful. My sister gave me a book when I was 10 called "Satan is a Alive and Well on Planet Earth" and I was in and out of psych hospitals for years. I'm now in my 50's and though our stories don't exactly match, the manipulation was the same and now we're here. Thank you.
Every one of these interviews is important. Glad I don't have a direct parallel for these experiences but I hope these reach the people who do. I hope with all my heart that content like this on the internet has gotten even more kids out of dangerous situations. Knowledge is power, and restrictions on it are what keep these cycles of abuse going.
I am genuinely crying from this video, thank you for helping to share this man's story. Taking something horrible and traumatic and finding your own power in it is truly a heroic and incredible feat.
I love your videos and I’ve learned so much from your channel. My family almost fell into the “Mormon” trap as a Mormon temple just opened next to our house !!
Closed captioning (which can be turned on or off as necessary by the viewer) is the better option that accommodates everyone. Using open captions on a video is like insisting everyone uses a wheelchair, whether they need one or not.
@@GhostIntoTheFogI think ur not considering that closed captions rnt the most accurate. Especially w specialised terminology like what this video contains.
Honestly I am shocked more people didn't raise red flags considering how much child labor the FLDS engaged in. Like if I see a 10 year old on a job site? Fuck no. But also I am never on job sites so I really have no idea what it's like.
@alyssadgrenfell I know!! Ots crazy to me how people never said a word. I don't go to construction sites but I do always look if people have their safety equipment on etc, because I hate hearing about those accidents. Can't imagine working with a 10 year old and then going home to your family and not feeling guilty
@@alyssadgrenfell you and I both know that we can tell if someone is really young. Like a full on child. I appreciate what Dan said around his skills and confidence with tools, but I still feel like any adult would know he was a kid at age 12.
@@alyssadgrenfellsame! Even if they dress and act like adults, I don’t think it is that hard to see something is wrong when there are several children working on a construction site. It wasn’t one child or a 14-15 year old who looks older, those were real children not even teens.
what an inspiring man... it could be SO easy to become bitter, hardened, and angry after all he went through. it's so nice to see that he's been able to process that in a more healthy way. It's horrible what they did to him, but good on him for being free of it now.
When he said he was kicked out of an entire religion and abandoned by everyone he ever knew, including his own parents and family, I 1000% percent though it was going to be pornographic movie. While being exiled of a teen watching porn would absolutely still be insane, it would at least make more sense than that happening over TED of all things.
I found this video to be incredibly inspiring and insightful. Thank for your work, Alyssa. I am not tied to the Mormon church in any way, but learning about it through your videos has given me a good understanding of what a Mormon person’s life may be like.
Wow, such a powerful interview! Thank you so much for making this video together! It’s incredible that after being mistreated and driven away in such a manner, he was able to stand up for himself so quickly and decide no, they are not going to do this to me. Kudos!!
I think a lot of people don’t understand how common Mormon fundamentalism and the belief in polygamy is. Estimates put the number between 20 and 60 thousand people. The FLDS is definitely not the only group, they’re the group that most people think of when they think of fundamentalist Mormon groups. The AUB and the Kingston group (or DCCS) are a couple other groups if anyone is interested in looking into other forms of these types of groups.
Sooooo many powerful nuggets of wisdom shared here! Alyssa and Dan, than you so much for sharing your hearts and stories here. Your examples are so inspiring and spread goodness and hope! Thank you!
An inspirational story of light overcoming darkness, of good beating evil. Life is the fight to choose courage over fear, truth over lies, and love over hate. This man exemplifies the achievement of those goals. Peace be with you both. Thank you for another remarkable conversation.🤟🏻🍀💐
I can relate to the way Dan has processed all of the trauma into his own moral code and inner strength. I was never in a real cult, my freshman year of college in a conservatory tech theatre program did involve a lot of cult fear and punishment tactics, but I did leave after one year, along with nearly all of my fellow neurodivergent/disabled classmates. Also one who was ostracized for contacting the university's community resource admin about a situation that was objectively heinous, which also put a target on my back because I was one of three people who left early to comfort her and walk her back to her dorm. I transferred to a different program in a different state and discovered that I actually had to deprogram myself and recover from the abuse I was always bracing myself for around new people who would never allow that culture to manifest and replicate itself. I also had a childhood where my parents loved me, but failed my siblings and I in so many ways that I never thought much about because I assumed it was normal and I was lucky to have parents who looked amazing from the outside. My siblings and I have turned these experiences into a shared comedic affect that would make an incredible stand-up comedy show for a niche audience. You have to take these experiences and make something else of it for yourself. We laugh at "weevil pasta and expired chicken" because if you can't laugh you have to cry, and laughter is just as good for processing grief over a childhood that is entirely unrelatable on a specific level to pretty much everyone we have ever met in our adult lives. My personal goal in life is to be the adult that I needed as a child to as many children as I can help.
Thank you so much for providing this platform and sharing Dan’s story. I was awestruck by his story and truly believe he is the embodiment of redemption in its truest sense. Sending you both love and support, and I am hopeful for the hearts his book of poetry will speak to.
Still watching as I drop this comment, but I’m just shocked anyone would treat children this way for any reason, and that others would follow the system without questioning.
I just was thinking as I heard Dan's account of what is happening now in the community, and it seems really close to the system implimented in "The Handmaid's Tale", with the exception of the women being assigned to a particular man to bare his particular child(ren), that part is the opposite. Also, I think Dan is person with a good heart and it's good to know he is able to live a life where he can be true to himself.
Thank you for sharing your story Dan, you speak so well. You had to grow up so quickly and survive by your own skill. You are doing such a good thing providing a safe way out for others. Your poems were beautiful and thoughtful. Alyssa thank you for the interview!
I really liked the videos where you told us the history behind Joseph Smith and the beginning of the Church of the LDS. If it's within your possibilities, it would be so interesting a deep dive video about the story of Warren Jeffs
Damn 43:58 it’s as if Warren Jeff’s was working from a cult leader playbook. The strategies are so similar across high control groups. I suppose because they work and it doesn’t take cruel men long to beta test and then streamline these strategies. The cruelty always has a point.
(I hope he got to see much better movies once he was out. Obv. he was kicked out over the larger issue of seeking out anything outside FLDS-world. But still… 52:25 )
I have to wonder if folks like Russell Nelson think they’re controlling and manipulating FOR and ON THE BEHALF OF GOD. ie: the spiritualized end justifies the means. In their own minds. 1:21:31
@@aliciak.6603 Hopefully he discovers The Orville. It's created by Seth MacFarlane, and it's really fun. I think it's his best work, and it's the best new Star Trek show (even though it's not actually star trek, it's 100% a spiritual successor.)
I'm hard of hearing and your captions are so wonderful! The auto generated ones do not work super great and often skip sentences or just don't make sense. ❤ thank you for this effort, it means so much to be included!
This is so interesting to hear and I really appreciate the honesty of both Alyssa and Dan regarding the circumstances they were in. I can't help but notice how their religions still influence their language to this day (it's not necessarily problematic, just something I've noticed).
Thank you for these videos and your channel Alyssa. It has opened my eyes to the world of high demand religions and I find it fascinating. I am an atheist living in the UK but I am still finding your content so valuable. Keep it up, wishing you all the success in the world ❤
Although I was in a totally different cult and left for other reasons, your insights on the FLDS clarified many tactics and cleared my mind. Thank you. (I was told to to leave my wife of over 10 years. [I said NO!] We ended up being happily married for 40 years before she passed).
What a powerful video. I’m so glad that he’s gotten away from the FLDS and his family too. Jeff’s is a truly evil man and I’m glad he’s in jail although I feel like he’s still manipulating the people from prison.
I think he’s a bit too charitable in his assumption that they’re not on some level trying to cull out some of the boys. It keeps your polygamy ratios good and makes the ratio of people with more power and a less docile personality more manageable for control reasons.
I see it the same way. When you want to have a lot of control in a group. People who think or push back a bit too much. Have to go. And it's for the ratio of men to women
Yeah. I really appreciate hearing his perspective. I never really considered about how the boys are a bit more worldly than the girls ie able to drive, some exposure to the outside cuz they're working. And while I definitely believe this could lead to boys bucking the doctrine, I definitely believe the elders were culling the population of males. I've seen at least 1 story where a teenage boy was sent to a different state to work cuz the girl he liked was desired by one of the nasty old men.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: A man who calls himself a “prophet of God” and has “revelations” is either having religious delusions or is hearing voices.
oh my god!!!!! this interview had me screeeeaming!!!!!!!!!! there were so many amazing insights about power, control, authority, speaking up for good and truth, self-determination, ideology, and so much more that both of you put so well. but. PEOPLE. please rewatch this interview and whenever they say "religious" replace with "political" and apply the wisdom equally. there is so much more to deconstruct. are you (the "global" you, not accusatorial) following your moral compass, intuition, ethics, etc. when you shut out caring about any human on this earth (a homeless person here, a person being bombed by your country's bombs there) to protect comfort/inertia/status quo instead of ACTING because of the oppressive systems you exist under? can you feel the impulse to close your eyes to the suffering around you to keep your comforts? does it make sense that we're all complicit in maintaining the misery we and others experience regardless of privilege?? stop excusing the violence of everyday. you are a victim of brainwashing and violence to accept selling your life to afford the necessities of life or maybe a few more "luxuries" if you gain the position to participate in more exploitation. normal people perpetuate great harms through actions they convince themselves are good. evil systems perpetuate evil, even without the same seemingly "uniquely" evil person at the helm. stop believing the lie that this system (or anyone with power in it) is here to help ANYONE but the ruling class. look at the actions and consequences and not what is said or promised or excused away! people dy*ng in the U.S. and people dy*ng in P@lest1ne have the same root cause. rich white property owners built this settler colonial empire on the bodies of enslaved brown and black people, the poor & working class, women, and children. reforms and changes in "leadership" have not changed this underlying system, whether in utah or elsewhere. stop outsourcing your morality and decision-making for illusions of safety under authority. we need to take control of our lives! no one is free until everyone is free (and to be clear your main freedom in the U.S. is the choice to produce capital by exploiting yourself or others or d*e). extend your compassion and curiosity as far as they can go and let them lead you in action in your lives and with the platforms you have. please.
What a wonderful intelligent eloquent insight into such a horrific experience. What could have turned this young man bitter and twisted he has risen above with love clarity and charity. Amazing! Cudos to him and every good wish to his family. There is a good life out there without the chains of a high demand religion. Well done and there is real TRUTH !!!
The captions have probably taken a lot of work. I really appreciate it. I'm not a native speaker, and although I usually don't need them anymore they used to be of great help
I hope they help! Unfortunately the mic was cutting out a bit so hopefully the captions help.
Unfortunately, the captions make the video completely inaccessible to me, because I’m ADHD. Trying to read and listen at the same time sends me into sensory overload. Closed captions (which can be turned on and off by the viewer) are the better option, despite how difficult YT and other platforms make it for creators to utilize.
I really appreciate them as well even though I’m a native speaker haha
@@alyssadgrenfellTy for the captions. I’m hoh and autogenerated closed captions rnt the most accurate. Especially w specialised terminology
Same! I’m ADHD and the captions help me to focus on what’s being said. Love them!
the fact that you were accused of murder for having a miscarriage is absolutely heartbreaking. imagine the psychological pain it put those people through
Apparently even if they had never had a miscarriage they would still be accused. Jeff’s did it to his own daughter even.
@@mistybraun9973 I mean abortion is absolutely murder though.. I'm not a Mormon..I just have a functioning front cortex and I'm not a psychopath that doesn't possess any qualms about killing a child...
Yeah, talk to woman in Texas, Georgia and Mississippi, they can tell you what that is like. When their life is in danger bc the child has health problems and will die in your womb and can cause you to die as well. For me that is a good reason for abortion.
@@cody1390Then so is eating a vegetable, because a fetus has the same level of consciousness.
As a woman who's had 2 miscarriages, the amount of irrational guilt you have is overwhelming. I can't imagine what those poor moms have had to do to overcome being told that they murdered their child. I've listened to a lot on FLDS & haven't heard that terrible piece before. Thank you for sharing your story so that we can learn more & hopefully show support & love to survivors. 💜
A 14 year old construction worker has more smarts and empathy than every single "Church Leader" What a great story.
As I was watching this I found out John Y. Barlow is my great great uncle. I can’t even describe how uncomfortable I am watching this knowing I have cousins who are married to their uncles. My mother was told, by my grandpa, that she and 2 of her sisters were to marry their uncle. They ran away cause they were NOT going to do that. I am super happy she made that decision as a teenager cause I’m sure I would have had the same fate.
I hope more people can get away from this sick cult.
Agreed! I'm an old lady and in working on my family genealogy I came across something that lead to a memory of a 'family' showing up at my parents property back in the late '60's that started making sense to me. This man, an older wife and 2 daughters?? (I think I wrongly assumed they were daughters) drove up in a weird type of van and called himself family to us. Long story, but my dad got mad and told him to leave the property and never come back. I haven't figured out the genealogy entirely (gee I wonder why!) yet, but that very odd experience set me to learning about these types of religions. I'm so glad I wasn't put in that situation.
Wow
You probably wouldn't have been even conceived if she was to marry her uncle! You are npt responsible at all for being genetically related to that Barlow person, nor any of us for what our blood relatives do or have done.. Let us search for Peace.
Wow I’m impressed your mom and 2 of her sisters had the strength to leave the only life they knew and create a different life. They are heroes. Would read their life story if you or somebody can write it.
The comment about switching from being a victim to a perpetrator and the timeline at which that occurs is an incredibly important insight. Yes, we can have sympathy for those who were indoctrinated from a young age, especially girls and women, but also we have to understand that all of us--whether inside or outside of cultish groups--do take on responsibility for those around us as we enter adulthood and must reconsider how we were raised and the lessons we were taught in order to understand what harms those around us may be perpetuating (even if they are generally "nice people").
Absolutely! I love how this guy correctly perceives and refuses to accept or feel okay about what he was put through by evil humans. I don't get that cringe feeling from him that I get from some others who are to this day trying to justify/minimize this cult. Kudos buddy! 🥰
No but I do get a bit of wanna be prophet from him.
I think he is really brave and I know he has had to be really proud of his accomplishments. But there is feeling from him that he knows what’s best and no one else knows better than him.
Personally I think a lot of these exFLDS have their own trauma and individual means are needed to help them live their lives as happily as they can.
He has a too much pride for my liking and too much dogma.
I am enormously impressed by him and so glad he seems to be doing so well. I don’t however think he himself processed his trauma and it may easily down the wrong path.
What a beautiful comment! So well put. This is how we all continue to grow and make it so that the next generations of our society don’t have to suffer in the same ways we did.
@@dianeshelton9592 I agree that it can be extremely hard for people who experienced childhood or adult situations like this to truly leave them.
But the point he makes applies to him as it applies to everyone. I think we have to be careful--not paranoid, but careful--that we don't perpetuate harms either by replicating what happened to us, or overcorrecting, or creating a new type of harm. And I think we need to do this every so often, because even those of us lucky enough to escape major traumas can easily become bound up in something that begins to hurt people.
From this video, we cannot know what this man is like in his real life and I don't want to speculate here.
The worst kind of victim is one who creates more victims.
I hate that the FLDS church has gotten away with child labor and abuse of all kinds for so long. I truly don't understand how the goverment is able to turn a blind eye to this, especially when more and more people are speaking out. Thanks for sharing, I loved this conversation. And the baby pictures were so stinking cute!!!!
13:35 incredibly powerful response to this question from Dan. "It's given me so much interior strength as a person because I had to dig deep as a child so many times times and you're getting pushed by people that don't care about you. So one of the results of that is either you stop caring about yourself or you REALLY care about yourself and I got the latter: I have a deep love and care for myself."
An incredible interview. Great questions by Alyssa. Dan is impressively eloquent. To hear that he stopped school to work full time at 11 years old surprised me; he's a thoughtful and gifted educator. I learned so much from this interview.
Yes, that really got me too!!
Finding out at the end that he is now a poet was perfect. He already speaks in such a poetic way that it makes sense! What an incredible person.
I like how Dan points out you can be a victim and the abuser at the same time and be totally unaware that you’re either.
Dan seems so sad and bitter that he got kicked out. He talks it up like he wishes he was still there
@@Curlygurly81 Sure dude, sure
Liked. Shared. Commented. Help the algorithm rescue someone from child labor.
Thank you
I second this
💯
Yes. Good tactic.
My kid (an adult) has a friend who escaped an FLDS family many years ago. That person left with absolutely nothing but the clothes on their back.
A horrible childhood.
Eventually many more of their family members joined them. But the first few years were absolutely harrowing.
Yes!!
This is very timely. All across the United States legislators are trying to roll back child labor laws.
They absolutely are and they must be stopped!
What is their goal?
@@QuarioQuario54321More money for stakeholders. Children do unskilled labor for minimum wages and don't demand workers rights.
@@QuarioQuario54321 Cheap labor. It's legal to pay minors a lower minimum wage for 90 days.
I think they're jealous of Jeffs, tbh.
So much instinctual emotional intelligence. That’s what got him through. I hope he and his family the best.
“it’s better that we suffered than that we turn into the very people who caused us to suffer” is so powerful. i’m going to try to remember that when i suffer
It breaks something deep in my heart every time I hear of children not being protected, especially by the people that put them on the earth. Children are an oppressed class and it is all our responsibility to keep them safe, loved, and away from harm. May the earth be freed of the FLDS and all systems that seek to harm children.
It makes total sense but it is fascinating that the FLDS has its own accent. Dan and the other former FLDS member you interviewed speak so similarly
It’s an isolated community with its own accent and vernacular.
He is an amazing human being and really shows resilience and spiritual strength. Somehow how his light was never dimmed by people who tried to crush and control him.
I can only begin to imagine the amount of hate you get for speaking out, but thank you for doing so. It boggles my mind that this has been going on here in the US for so long & that so little can be done to stop it. We talk about human rights in other parts of the world (don't get me wrong, that's horrible too!) & turn a blind eye to the human trafficking/ forced labor happening in our own back yard.
And in this case it’s constitution labour. But the US praises child labour. As a child I asked my mom why we didn’t have any really famous kids here. It’s because we have extremely strict child labour laws. That’s why most countries besides China, Russia or the US always do really well at the Olympics. It’s just not allowed to have a child train that much in Europe. Sports also doesn’t get you into college or pays for it. Because classes cost between €2000, €500 & €0 a year. If you leave school before 21 the government will also be breathing down your neck to see why you aren’t in any sort of school
@@evelien135We in the US are in a big struggle with MAGA and T**** telling people higher education is bad, that if you go to college you will be brainwashed by liberals. In many ways MAGA is a cult because whatever their cult leader says they believe even if there is proof it’s a lie like that Haitians in Ohio are eating cats and dogs. I’m afraid that like this polygamist leader T** will continue to pull his cult’s strings even if he loses and even if he goes to prison.
Such a good quote as applies to cult leaders: "In order to successfully deceive someone, you must successfully deceive yourself first." Thank you!
He is so well spoken it’s really moving
What he said about members no longer being victims but perpetrators after a certain age is spot on. I've heard people state that you shouldn't criticize or mock people in cults because they've been brainwashed, but at a certain age you are responsible for the harm you perpetuate by serving a cult and thus brainwashing your own children.
“Your past does not have to define your future.” So profound yet so simple. You both are amazingly strong and amazing people! Thank you for sharing your stories. ❤❤❤❤❤
i don't normally comment on videos but this man is so inspiring . made my day hearing the beautiful things he has to say even after all he has been through ! will be reading his book
This is why I'm against homeschooling.
Not only does it diminish the funds available and decrease respect for for public school, but it means adults are allowed to hold their children as PRISONERS with no outside view on how they are being abused.
And so many states have ZERO regulation around homeschooling. I know many people that have completed online homeschooling and received an actual high school diploma, but many homeschooled kids aren’t actually receiving an education. It’s so sad because everyone deserves to receive a proper education
@@LolaLaRue-sq6jm the problem is that some of these organizations have federal and state funded schools and pose as actual schools but are not! Look into cults to consciousness’s podcast with former members of the order!
Just remember that public schools in the US can also be very close to prisons. Black people getting stuck in the school to prison pipeline would benefit greatly from homeschooling. The world isn't so binary.
@@nicolaim4275 But only if they had access to quality education at home. With parents having to work several jobs, or having gone through the same experience you describe for their kids, that's also not guaranteed. Through no fault of the kids or parents, but still.
@@BlackCat69909 True, but trying to curtail abusive home-schooling can hit those who have legitimate secular reasons to look for alternatives to schools that might be worse than nothing.
Love having the captions as a neurodivergent person helps me focus and comprehend a lot easier :)
I’m also neurodivergent (AuDHD), and open captions on a video this long send me into sensory overload. Closed captions are a much better option, because they can be turned off. Open captions can’t be turned off.
@@GhostIntoTheFog that makes sense! I wish the closed captions for RUclips were more accurate. They tend to be really off which really confuses and distracts me :(
@@GhostIntoTheFog with conversations like this where most info is quite centred can you (pinch out to) zoom in on the video a little? Going to 1.1 or 1.2 instead of 1 zoom then shifting the screen down usually blocks captions and still leaves most of the video visible. I know this as I zoom in a little when trying to see craft instruction videos but if the written instructions are down the bottom they be blocked by the zoom in. It's something that means the zoom doesn't always work for me but might be useful for you?
@GhostIntoTheFog It sounds like it's difficult to function generally if that sends you into sensory overload. It's not necessary to look at the screen so this shouldn't be a problem for you. This is just like listening to a podcast.
@@angeladurden3702omg how do you live in the world if this is too much for you?? Captions help countless people with ADHD, hearing problems or a language barrier. Go cry about it.
I do pest control in southern utah. We have several clients that are part of the FLDS community and it is very complicated to complete the pest control services on their properties. We are always followed around the home by a male member of the household and we get our instructions "translated" from the "mother" of the home to us from the male member, these are in general kids. Like 10-15 year olds. They should NOT in in circumstance be following us around and we constantly have to tell them to back up or move up wind from us as we treat the property as they should not be around us as we are applying chemicals around the home that while safe when dry are NOT AT ALL SAFE when in the liquid form. We have a policy that if the wind blows liquid onto your from the sprayer you stop and go straight to a clean water source (generally and water line on the outside of the home) and rise your whole body. They refuse to let us do our work though without being watched by a man as all our techs are men.
Great job with a thoughtful, articulate guest. 👏 👏 👏 Also, What an incredible resume! Poet. Philosopher. Builder. Rescuer. Father. Congrats, sending best wishes to Mom and new baby!
Oh my goodness, Dan. I don't know if you'll ever see this but thank you so much for telling your story. You truly touched my soul and helped me see a shimmer of hope in this life! ❤
Dan, you are so articulate and well verse in mental health.❤ Thank you for breaking this cycle for your child and helping others out of such a corrupt system! Love and light to you!
Thank you Alyssa for hosting and Dan for sharing your story with us.
What he was explaining was an authoritative theocracy, not socialism. Socialism is heavily propagandized and normally mistaken for authoritarian governments
Thank you for pointing this out! I was looking to see if anyone had mentioned it. You can have personal property under socialism, the people/workers own the means of production. Think factories and big businesses. Productions would be co-op and worker owned. Great unintended misinformation catch!
Yes, this grinds my gears! Socialists aren't coming to take your toys away.
Go to Cuba or Venezuala. They are socialists. See how it rly is
Absolutely, what he described is more like communism of the authoritarian kind.
@@powderandpaint14 I wouldn’t say communism. Communism is a money less, classless society. This was definitely money-driven.
I have written repeatedly regarding those involved in the Jeffs case that the court's greatest mistake was not issuing a permanent (reviewable, of course) no-contact order for any and all victims and their families as well as any other potential victim-families that he was maintaining ongoing relationships with in that community. In many states, that is just part of any conviction of that nature, and the failure to implement one in this case has provided the means for Jeffs to continue victimizing even while he is being held in a psych ward. It would be best if a legal-advocacy organization would take this up and pursue it even now to ensure that these continuing instructions from him and their consequences are shut down.
Dan - you have such a beautiful soul and your words and how you've come to now reframe and view your childhood and all the darkness you survived and yet still be kind and compassionate; I absolutely agree that because of you, your families (both childhood and now) have been shaped in a positive way by you and your kindness and compassion. I'm grateful that there are fathers like you out there supporting families
Alyssa - this was such a great interview and might be my favorite video purely because of Dan’s loving and healing vibes that are such a breath of fresh air in a very heavy subject matter ♥️
You're channel is so helpful. My sister gave me a book when I was 10 called "Satan is a Alive and Well on Planet Earth" and I was in and out of psych hospitals for years. I'm now in my 50's and though our stories don't exactly match, the manipulation was the same and now we're here. Thank you.
That’s so fucked. I’m so sorry that you experienced all that.
Every one of these interviews is important. Glad I don't have a direct parallel for these experiences but I hope these reach the people who do. I hope with all my heart that content like this on the internet has gotten even more kids out of dangerous situations. Knowledge is power, and restrictions on it are what keep these cycles of abuse going.
I am genuinely crying from this video, thank you for helping to share this man's story. Taking something horrible and traumatic and finding your own power in it is truly a heroic and incredible feat.
I love your videos and I’ve learned so much from your channel. My family almost fell into the “Mormon” trap as a Mormon temple just opened next to our house !!
I want somebody to tell Mark Wahlberg a 16 yo got kicked out of a cult for watching Ted but that it was for the best.
thank you for the captions!
Closed captioning (which can be turned on or off as necessary by the viewer) is the better option that accommodates everyone. Using open captions on a video is like insisting everyone uses a wheelchair, whether they need one or not.
@@GhostIntoTheFogI think ur not considering that closed captions rnt the most accurate. Especially w specialised terminology like what this video contains.
@@GhostIntoTheFog your metaphor isn't accurate to the situation and I simply don't agree
break the cycle, help a child get out of child labor
Honestly I am shocked more people didn't raise red flags considering how much child labor the FLDS engaged in. Like if I see a 10 year old on a job site? Fuck no. But also I am never on job sites so I really have no idea what it's like.
@alyssadgrenfell I know!! Ots crazy to me how people never said a word. I don't go to construction sites but I do always look if people have their safety equipment on etc, because I hate hearing about those accidents. Can't imagine working with a 10 year old and then going home to your family and not feeling guilty
@@alyssadgrenfell you and I both know that we can tell if someone is really young. Like a full on child. I appreciate what Dan said around his skills and confidence with tools, but I still feel like any adult would know he was a kid at age 12.
@@alyssadgrenfellsame! Even if they dress and act like adults, I don’t think it is that hard to see something is wrong when there are several children working on a construction site. It wasn’t one child or a 14-15 year old who looks older, those were real children not even teens.
The wisdom and intelligence emanating from this gentleman is awesome.
Thank you for bringing to light these cults.
One of the most powerful interviews I’ve ever seen
Such wisdom from someone so young. And you did great not getting in the way of him telling his story. Thank you to both of you. ❤
what an inspiring man... it could be SO easy to become bitter, hardened, and angry after all he went through. it's so nice to see that he's been able to process that in a more healthy way.
It's horrible what they did to him, but good on him for being free of it now.
When he said he was kicked out of an entire religion and abandoned by everyone he ever knew, including his own parents and family, I 1000% percent though it was going to be pornographic movie. While being exiled of a teen watching porn would absolutely still be insane, it would at least make more sense than that happening over TED of all things.
I found this video to be incredibly inspiring and insightful. Thank for your work, Alyssa. I am not tied to the Mormon church in any way, but learning about it through your videos has given me a good understanding of what a Mormon person’s life may be like.
Wow, such a powerful interview! Thank you so much for making this video together! It’s incredible that after being mistreated and driven away in such a manner, he was able to stand up for himself so quickly and decide no, they are not going to do this to me. Kudos!!
Wow - good for him escaping that awful situation.
I think a lot of people don’t understand how common Mormon fundamentalism and the belief in polygamy is. Estimates put the number between 20 and 60 thousand people. The FLDS is definitely not the only group, they’re the group that most people think of when they think of fundamentalist Mormon groups. The AUB and the Kingston group (or DCCS) are a couple other groups if anyone is interested in looking into other forms of these types of groups.
Yeah Peter Santanello did a couple of episodes on those other fundamentalists. I think they were the Kingston ones.
Sooooo many powerful nuggets of wisdom shared here! Alyssa and Dan, than you so much for sharing your hearts and stories here. Your examples are so inspiring and spread goodness and hope! Thank you!
An inspirational story of light overcoming darkness, of good beating evil. Life is the fight to choose courage over fear, truth over lies, and love over hate. This man exemplifies the achievement of those goals.
Peace be with you both. Thank you for another remarkable conversation.🤟🏻🍀💐
I can relate to the way Dan has processed all of the trauma into his own moral code and inner strength. I was never in a real cult, my freshman year of college in a conservatory tech theatre program did involve a lot of cult fear and punishment tactics, but I did leave after one year, along with nearly all of my fellow neurodivergent/disabled classmates. Also one who was ostracized for contacting the university's community resource admin about a situation that was objectively heinous, which also put a target on my back because I was one of three people who left early to comfort her and walk her back to her dorm. I transferred to a different program in a different state and discovered that I actually had to deprogram myself and recover from the abuse I was always bracing myself for around new people who would never allow that culture to manifest and replicate itself.
I also had a childhood where my parents loved me, but failed my siblings and I in so many ways that I never thought much about because I assumed it was normal and I was lucky to have parents who looked amazing from the outside. My siblings and I have turned these experiences into a shared comedic affect that would make an incredible stand-up comedy show for a niche audience. You have to take these experiences and make something else of it for yourself. We laugh at "weevil pasta and expired chicken" because if you can't laugh you have to cry, and laughter is just as good for processing grief over a childhood that is entirely unrelatable on a specific level to pretty much everyone we have ever met in our adult lives.
My personal goal in life is to be the adult that I needed as a child to as many children as I can help.
Thank you so much for providing this platform and sharing Dan’s story. I was awestruck by his story and truly believe he is the embodiment of redemption in its truest sense. Sending you both love and support, and I am hopeful for the hearts his book of poetry will speak to.
Great timing, was just looking for something to watch❤
Welcome! I hope you enjoy the interview :)
Still watching as I drop this comment, but I’m just shocked anyone would treat children this way for any reason, and that others would follow the system without questioning.
I just was thinking as I heard Dan's account of what is happening now in the community, and it seems really close to the system implimented in "The Handmaid's Tale", with the exception of the women being assigned to a particular man to bare his particular child(ren), that part is the opposite.
Also, I think Dan is person with a good heart and it's good to know he is able to live a life where he can be true to himself.
Wow, what an amazing young man. Wishing him all the best!
This interview is fascinating, thanks for having him on!
This was so interesting! Thank you for making this video possible! I hope the best for you and for Dan!
how the actual hell isn't this entire church in prison for child endangerment?
I appreciate Alyssa's interview face - she seems like a very active listener!
This is so intense, I have to stop and watch the rest later. O. M. G. All good things to Dan! what a survivor!
Wow I am so moved by his story and wisdom. Thank you so much to both of you ❤❤
Thank you for sharing your story Dan, you speak so well. You had to grow up so quickly and survive by your own skill. You are doing such a good thing providing a safe way out for others. Your poems were beautiful and thoughtful. Alyssa thank you for the interview!
I really liked the videos where you told us the history behind Joseph Smith and the beginning of the Church of the LDS. If it's within your possibilities, it would be so interesting a deep dive video about the story of Warren Jeffs
came at the right time!! while on my lunch break ❤️❤️❤️
Happy lunch time! I'm about to eat lunch too! :) I hope you enjoy the video!
Thank you for this episode. Wonderful interview!
Thank you so so much for the captions-I am Deaf and it means so much to me
Damn 43:58 it’s as if Warren Jeff’s was working from a cult leader playbook. The strategies are so similar across high control groups. I suppose because they work and it doesn’t take cruel men long to beta test and then streamline these strategies. The cruelty always has a point.
Poor kid gets kicked out over Ted. 50:36
(I hope he got to see much better movies once he was out. Obv. he was kicked out over the larger issue of seeking out anything outside FLDS-world. But still… 52:25 )
I have to wonder if folks like Russell Nelson think they’re controlling and manipulating FOR and ON THE BEHALF OF GOD. ie: the spiritualized end justifies the means. In their own minds. 1:21:31
@@aliciak.6603
Hopefully he discovers The Orville. It's created by Seth MacFarlane, and it's really fun. I think it's his best work, and it's the best new Star Trek show (even though it's not actually star trek, it's 100% a spiritual successor.)
I really appreciate all of the hard work you put into these videos! Thanks for another good discussion ❤
Thos young man is just a couple of years younger than my son. My heart broke hearing his story. Thank you for sharing.
What an incredible story and inspiring young man. Thank you for sharing this with us!
I appreciate you both for sharing your stories.
I'm hard of hearing and your captions are so wonderful! The auto generated ones do not work super great and often skip sentences or just don't make sense. ❤ thank you for this effort, it means so much to be included!
This was an intresting interview but that is not what socialism is.
Yeah people have a severely twisted idea of what socialism is. Part of the indoctrination of our own sect lol
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
This is so interesting to hear and I really appreciate the honesty of both Alyssa and Dan regarding the circumstances they were in. I can't help but notice how their religions still influence their language to this day (it's not necessarily problematic, just something I've noticed).
this is so sad. the more i learn about this cult, the more pity i felt for those innocent kids... i hope tjeyre in a safer place now... :(
Thanks for posting this. Not a lot of people want to talk about males who are abused.
Thank you for these videos and your channel Alyssa. It has opened my eyes to the world of high demand religions and I find it fascinating. I am an atheist living in the UK but I am still finding your content so valuable. Keep it up, wishing you all the success in the world ❤
Thanks so much for taking the time to speak with Dan. Very informative and heartbreaking.
Fantastic interview. I admire Dan so much for his courage and even more fore his humanity. Thank you both so much.
Although I was in a totally different cult and left for other reasons, your insights on the FLDS clarified many tactics and cleared my mind. Thank you.
(I was told to to leave my wife of over 10 years. [I said NO!] We ended up being happily married for 40 years before she passed).
This guy is really strong! I admire him and wish him all the best.
Sending love to both of you guys
What a powerful video. I’m so glad that he’s gotten away from the FLDS and his family too. Jeff’s is a truly evil man and I’m glad he’s in jail although I feel like he’s still manipulating the people from prison.
I think he’s a bit too charitable in his assumption that they’re not on some level trying to cull out some of the boys. It keeps your polygamy ratios good and makes the ratio of people with more power and a less docile personality more manageable for control reasons.
I see it the same way. When you want to have a lot of control in a group. People who think or push back a bit too much. Have to go. And it's for the ratio of men to women
Yeah. I really appreciate hearing his perspective.
I never really considered about how the boys are a bit more worldly than the girls ie able to drive, some exposure to the outside cuz they're working.
And while I definitely believe this could lead to boys bucking the doctrine, I definitely believe the elders were culling the population of males. I've seen at least 1 story where a teenage boy was sent to a different state to work cuz the girl he liked was desired by one of the nasty old men.
Wow. Just . . . Wow! Thank you for sharing.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: A man who calls himself a “prophet of God” and has “revelations” is either having religious delusions or is hearing voices.
I have a lot of sympathy for the people in this cult. They were born into this, they know nothing else
oh my god!!!!! this interview had me screeeeaming!!!!!!!!!! there were so many amazing insights about power, control, authority, speaking up for good and truth, self-determination, ideology, and so much more that both of you put so well. but. PEOPLE. please rewatch this interview and whenever they say "religious" replace with "political" and apply the wisdom equally. there is so much more to deconstruct. are you (the "global" you, not accusatorial) following your moral compass, intuition, ethics, etc. when you shut out caring about any human on this earth (a homeless person here, a person being bombed by your country's bombs there) to protect comfort/inertia/status quo instead of ACTING because of the oppressive systems you exist under? can you feel the impulse to close your eyes to the suffering around you to keep your comforts? does it make sense that we're all complicit in maintaining the misery we and others experience regardless of privilege?? stop excusing the violence of everyday. you are a victim of brainwashing and violence to accept selling your life to afford the necessities of life or maybe a few more "luxuries" if you gain the position to participate in more exploitation. normal people perpetuate great harms through actions they convince themselves are good. evil systems perpetuate evil, even without the same seemingly "uniquely" evil person at the helm. stop believing the lie that this system (or anyone with power in it) is here to help ANYONE but the ruling class. look at the actions and consequences and not what is said or promised or excused away! people dy*ng in the U.S. and people dy*ng in P@lest1ne have the same root cause. rich white property owners built this settler colonial empire on the bodies of enslaved brown and black people, the poor & working class, women, and children. reforms and changes in "leadership" have not changed this underlying system, whether in utah or elsewhere. stop outsourcing your morality and decision-making for illusions of safety under authority. we need to take control of our lives! no one is free until everyone is free (and to be clear your main freedom in the U.S. is the choice to produce capital by exploiting yourself or others or d*e). extend your compassion and curiosity as far as they can go and let them lead you in action in your lives and with the platforms you have. please.
New video just as I started binging your channel? YAYYY
What a balanced and authentic man Dan is.
What a wonderful intelligent eloquent insight into such a horrific experience. What could have turned this young man bitter and twisted he has risen above with love clarity and charity. Amazing! Cudos to him and every good wish to his family. There is a good life out there without the chains of a high demand religion. Well done and there is real TRUTH !!!
Thank you for making this!!! you are an amazing interviewer!!
What a story. Dan is clearly an amazing person. And brilliant interviewing!
A 60-year-old man who is a pastor, bishop, etc. should not be allowed to ask those kinds of questions!
Fantastic interview.
Expanding your content like cults to consciousness... great idea🎉😊❤