@@HasanBabasi calm down with the blasphemous claims dude the only true blasphemy is of the Holy Spirit, no church father is greater than any other saint and they would say the same if they were here.
If a whole church or a group want to all pray in the spirit together, they can do that silently. Why would they want to do that out loud all together? Where is the edification? I like to hear tongues, but when everyone is speaking in tongues together, I can't hear the distinction in the sounds, which is why I believe God has interpretation of tongues. He didn't want tongues to be only done in a prayer closet. He also wanted tongues to be heard in the church when the church comes together and meets, but it must be interpreted, otherwise we are not edified. I think tongues are wonderful to hear. I like hearing all the different languages people have. That's something I can't get when everyone is speaking at the same time together but when someone speaks in tongues and then interprets what they said in a tongue, I get to hear not only their tongue, but also the interpretation which will be a message from for for God in the language the majority of the people present understand, and it should be a message of edification by way of exhortation and comfort. I need that edification often. I need to be exhorted to go and do the things I need to do, and I also need the comfort to build me up also, to have the confidence to go and do what God wants me to do.
Well if you’re looking to “be edified too” how about you stop looking at what everyone else is doing and just speak in tongues yourself? Does it not say in 1Cor14:4 that anyone who speaks in tongues EDIFIES HIMSELF? There you go, no need to wait or want, just get at it!😉
We can find edification in worship. To be on one accord in worship whether in English or in tongues I love it. The preached Word of God can certainly stir you but the physical spirit of God moving on the inside and being expressed through tongues is a priceless experience that we should all strive to experience by ourselves and together.
Do not confuse the speaking in tongues, as in your personal prayer language to you and the Lord, which is in the spirit, and the GIFT of Tongues, which requires interpretation as described in Corinthians 14 :[ NIV] Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. ... He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified. Remember, the Lord is NOT the author of confusion...
God Bless all that believe I Cor 12-14, It will happen if you have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and John 3:16 a seek to have a personal relationship with God the Father and His son Jesus Christ Try Jesus for yourself and see his Love manifest in your life. Just because we take up our cross and follow Jesus, does not mean our lives will be so easy we still have problems just as you do but it is how we handle those problems.
As an important part of the great commission, of making disciples of all men, it is important to instruct people in the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. We are given enough information in I Cor 12-14, such that, this information along with what we should already know from the Bible (many of us anyway) that we should be receiving into manifestation speaking in tongues. These things are received by faith, which comes by one thing, hearing the word of God. So we do not want to hear confusing and opposing opinions of men, if we want to receive something from God, for those things only issue in confusion, doubt, and unbelief. However, if we can get more than a few people who have received speaking in tongues, then we have something to work with, along with all that the scripture says about it. The scripture says that we do the speaking, but the Holy Spirit gives the utterance (what to say) and that he is the Helper, and we are to be the doers. We will be doing the praying in the Spirit, just as we do the praying with out understanding. However the Holy Spirit is with us whether we pray or don't pray, and if we are praying with our understanding, we are in charge of what we pray, yet the Holy Spirit can still be helping us to some extent or another. Even so, it is still us doing the praying, because the words are coming from us. When praying in the Spirit, the words are completely given by the Spirit of God and we don't know what we are praying, so it is the Spirit of God praying through us. We are simply saying the sounds, the words the Spirit gives us. For people who have received this into manifestation, this is the easiest way to pray. We don't even think about what to pray. We can have our attention elsewhere if we want, but in our minds we will still be hearing he sounds the Holy Spirit gives us as long as we are praying in the Spirit, whether silently or out loud. The tendency of our mind will be to hear theses sounds, even though the mind did not originate them. That being as it is, we could still be concentrating on something we are doing, fixing a car or whatever, but some of our concentration might be lost as our mind will want to listen to those sounds. It will hear those sounds as long as we are praying in the Spirit. An entire church could do this all together if they wanted to, all praying in the Spirit silently, and anybody who comes in wouldn't hear a thing. But it all were praying out loud, they would think we were either nuts, or clearly out of order, unless for some purpose this was being done, as in some kind of class on initial receiving of it or something like that. I know we have liberty in Christ Jesus to function with these things he gives us, and we need to walk wisely with what he gives us. If we were doing a class on interpretation of tongues, we might want to be sure everyone there speaks in tongues fluently, so we might give each one a chance to do so, and we will hear the tongue and make sure this is genuine. For without first walking in speaking in tongues, how will one interpret, as the one who has spoken in a tongue should be the one interpreting. Paul covered this well. It's all about walking in love. If you do the speaking in a tongue in a public church meeting when called upon or invited by the leadership to do so, then you should be the one who gives the interpretation. Don't think to put the interpreting on someone else. Did you ever wonder why God wants speaking in tongues with interpretation in the church, instead of just prophecy? The interpretation will by nature be prophecy, so why do you suppose God wants it done this way? Well this way we get to hear all the different tongues, and it's done decently and in order. Without interpretation of tongues, when would we ever get to hear tongues? We might, but without interpretation, there would be no message of edification, by way of comfort and exhortation, would there? There is so much help we could receive one of another on these things, and as long as we use scripture as our rule, we really should not go wrong. Everything we need to start walking responsibly in these things, keeping the commandments of the Lord given in I Cor 12-14, we should be able to do. All the necessary information is all there, nothing missing. Those who have received should be able to help others. All we need is permission from the leadership, and the liberty to walk as we ought to walk in Christ Jesus, helping one another with whatever measure we have received of the Lord. As we have received, we should be able to minister the same, one to another.
There are diff tongues Personal tongues for prayer and edification Then tongues w interpretation for all of Gods people a word directly from the Lord For to edify His CHURCH ..prophecy speak heal over them as a whole GOD IS GOD He can do whatever he wants when He wants Some are actual gifts that people are given where God uses that through them to speak to someone of a different country/ language through a person that doesn’t know or speak the language they are being used as a mouth piece to teach someone and agow His power and super natural ability And for others they are given other gifts And only speak tongues in prayer Or just randomly to show you his power and glory and show you who he is Stop playing God read your bibles 1cori thia s is VERY CLEAR
It is the HolySpirit who reveals the secret treasure of heaven in earth & one of it is praying in tongues. The enemy & his agents try hard as much as they can to prove speaking in tongues is just a language what people can understand & it is written. This is is deception a lie from the pit of hell.
The “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing today is an entirely self-created phenomenon. It is non-cognitive non-language utterance; random free vocalization based upon a subset of the existing sounds of the speaker’s native language, and any other language(s) the speaker may be familiar with or have had contact with. It is typically characterized by repetitive syllables, plays on sound patterns, and over-simplification of syllable structure. “Tongues” may be either spoken or sung. Due to the nature of how it is produced, no two people will ever have the same “tongue”. People believe something to be supernatural because they can't explain it otherwise. There is _nothing_ however that these ‘speakers’ are producing that cannot be explained in natural linguistic terms. Conversely, there are no Biblical references to ‘tongues” that cannot be explained with respect to real language. Indeed, the patristic view supports “tongues” as rational (foreign) languages. Early Pentecostal/Charismatic ‘tongues-speakers’ looked for Scriptural references for what they were doing, since their original supposition (xenoglossy) definitely wasn’t it; however, Scriptural references were simply not there. The resulting implicit theology was not a synthesis of revelation and philosophy, but rather a synthesis of trying to make sense of the “tongues experience” in light of the narrative of Scripture. In other words, a way to legitimize the modern phenomenon by ‘proofing‘ it in the Bible, despite the obvious overwhelming absence therein of anything resembling modern tongues - call it what you will, but the result was a virtual re-definition of Scripture with respect to the understanding/justification of modern “tongues” for this group of Christians. Two of the best examples of this classic re-definition are the phrase “praying in the Spirit”, and the word “tongue(s)” itself. The Greek word translated “pray in” can have several different meanings/nuances. It can mean “by means of,” “with the help of,” “in the sphere of,” and “in connection to.” Praying in the Spirit does _not_ refer to the words we are saying. Rather, it refers to _how_ we are praying. In the three places the phrase is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely no reference to 'languages' in connection with the phrase. Therefore, “praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phase has come to be equated with 'tongues'. A reading into Scripture of something that was just never there. The word “tongue(s)” is simply a more archaic word for (real) “language(s)”, nothing more. Replace “tongue(s)” with “language(s)” in these passages and the whole modern Pentecostal/Charismatic concept of “tongues” begins to become difficult to posit - “language(s)” sounds a lot less mysterious. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phase has come to be equated with the modern concept of “tongues-speech”. Again, a reading into Scripture something that was never there. “Tongues” is simply not what its ‘speakers’ want/need it to be. Modern tongues is just another tool, like chanting or meditation, etc.; a way by which one may establish a closer relationship with the divine and strengthen one’s spiritual path. In this respect (i.e. as the _tool_ it is), it can be quite powerful to accomplish this goal, as attested by many of those who use it. Most people who use it are very keen on describing the ‘experience’; however, when examining the “mechanics” behind it, not so much. Contrary to Pentecostal/Charismatic belief, there is no ‘continual chain’ of tongues in the church; just sporadic reports of individuals producing what, in a few examples, appear to be similar (if not identical) to modern tongues. Unfortunately, most of these writings describe the experience, not the mechanics behind it. As a result, they are more often vague at best at describing what is actually happening with respect to language/tongues. What Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians are doing today, 150 years ago, did not exist in the Christian tradition. Known by many different names, “tongues”, or more accurately “glossolalia”, is practiced by many cultures and religious beliefs from all over the world; it is relatively new to Christianity and certainly not unique to it.
Kavik, Are you aware that speaking in tongues can not be done by human ability alone? It is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, and people do it every day. Speaking in tongues, since it is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit,
I have to respectfully disagree - as a linguist having studied glossolalia both in the Christian and non-Christian traditions, it is an entirely self-created phenomenon; there just isn’t anything you’re doing in the production of “tongues” that cannot be easily explained in natural/linguistic terms. One may be inspired by the Holy Spirit to engage in “tongues”, but what you’re producing is by no means ‘divinely inspired speech’ - in fact, modern “tongues” is not language of any kind. What you’re doing is no different from what, say, an Evenki Shaman is doing in Siberia. As previously stated, when it comes to something spoken, there are absolutely no Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s). The God-given talent/natural ability for some people to easily learn languages AND using that ability in the church to spread the message of Christianity and for the glory of God is the manifestation of the “gift of tongues (read ‘languages’) in Paul’s writings. With respect to modern tongues - If the history of the Pentecost movement is examined, one fact is very clear: at some point between 1906 and 1907, Pentecostal/Charismatic leaders were compelled to re-examine the narrative of Scripture with respect to “tongues”. The reason for this re-examination was that it quickly became embarrassingly obvious that their original supposition, xenoglossy, certainly wasn’t what they were producing. This forced a serious theological dilemma - As a whole, either the Pentecostal movement would have to admit it was wrong about “tongues”, or the modern experience needed to be completely redefined. It seems the latter option was chosen. As stated further above, the resulting implicit theology however was not a synthesis of revelation and philosophy, but rather a synthesis of trying to make sense of the modern “tongues experience” in light of the narrative of Scripture. A way to legitimize and justify the modern phenomenon by ‘proofing’ it in the Bible. The problem with this however, was an obvious overwhelming absence therein of anything resembling modern tongues. Call it what you will, but for this group of Christians, the result was a virtual re-definition of scripture with respect to the understanding and justification of modern “tongues”; a re-interpretation of select texts to fit the modern practice/connotation of what ”tongues” was perceived to be. The most damning result of this re-definition of scripture is the reading into texts of things that are just not there and never were.
Sir, if you have not studied speaking in tongues, which is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, you have only studied gibberish and foolishness. If you have two people, side by side, one of which speaks in tongues, and one who fakes tongues, doing so by human effort alone, and they give you full, honest cooperation, what you will find is that one of them flows naturally, and can go on continually, even for an hour, while the other one can produce nothing of the sort, and this will be clearly evident, so much so, that not even a fool could make the mistake of not knowing the difference, and this would happen every time you tried this with multiple thousands of pairs of people, as long as one speaks in tongues and one does not, and they fully cooperate with you. Go do your real study.
Your example is one that I frequently use when demonstrating what I would differentiate between ‘real’ and ‘fake’ “tongues”/glossolalia. The person who is making the conscious effort to produce glossolalia will end up with glossolalia that sounds, well, ‘forced’ - within a minute of listening to it, it will become quite obvious that a very conscious effort is being used to produce it. It’s not random free-vocalization at all; there’s too much of an obvious conscious effort involved. True glossolalia flows from the subconscious and is completely random free vocalization; non-cognitive non-language utterance (as described in one of my previous posts). The result of this, is that the part of the brain that produces and controls language production is not at all overly engaged - this was demonstrated some years ago by a study done by the Univ. of PA using SPECT imaging. One doesn’t need to think about what or how one produces it, it just flows. It’s a bit like listening to a toddler playing with the sounds of language; there’s virtually no conscious effort involved. You’re exactly right; the person who is producing glossolalia from the subconscious mind can go on for hours and hours as it’s completely random and there’s virtually no conscious effort made in its production. The best analogy I can think of is something like a person humming a random made-up tune as they’re working on something (raking a yard, for example) - they could hum for hours because the ‘tune’ is completely random and flows from the person’s subconscious. Yes, again you’re correct - the above scenario could be done with any number of people with the same results; the subconscious produced glossolalia will always “win out” over the one produced by conscious effort. Works the exact same way with other cultures and traditions that practice glossolalia.
One of the best explanations i have heard on his subject.
On the Day of Pentecost there were sixteen known languages heard, and understood.
You are not an apostle and don't have this power, equating yourself to any of the fathers of the church is blasphemous.
@@HasanBabasi I never said, or even implied, I am an Apostle.
@@HasanBabasi calm down with the blasphemous claims dude the only true blasphemy is of the Holy Spirit, no church father is greater than any other saint and they would say the same if they were here.
@@TruthandnothingbutTHEtruth.Amen and Amen.
I have gifts but I haven’t put them to proper use nor have I figured out how to.
If a whole church or a group want to all pray in the spirit together, they can do that silently. Why would they want to do that out loud all together? Where is the edification? I like to hear tongues, but when everyone is speaking in tongues together, I can't hear the distinction in the sounds, which is why I believe God has interpretation of tongues. He didn't want tongues to be only done in a prayer closet. He also wanted tongues to be heard in the church when the church comes together and meets, but it must be interpreted, otherwise we are not edified. I think tongues are wonderful to hear. I like hearing all the different languages people have. That's something I can't get when everyone is speaking at the same time together but when someone speaks in tongues and then interprets what they said in a tongue, I get to hear not only their tongue, but also the interpretation which will be a message from for for God in the language the majority of the people present understand, and it should be a message of edification by way of exhortation and comfort. I need that edification often. I need to be exhorted to go and do the things I need to do, and I also need the comfort to build me up also, to have the confidence to go and do what God wants me to do.
Well if you’re looking to “be edified too” how about you stop looking at what everyone else is doing and just speak in tongues yourself? Does it not say in 1Cor14:4 that anyone who speaks in tongues EDIFIES HIMSELF? There you go, no need to wait or want, just get at it!😉
There is biblically supposed to be a interpreter so you can understand what was said by two or three . 1 corthians
We can find edification in worship. To be on one accord in worship whether in English or in tongues I love it. The preached Word of God can certainly stir you but the physical spirit of God moving on the inside and being expressed through tongues is a priceless experience that we should all strive to experience by ourselves and together.
Do not confuse the speaking in tongues, as in your personal prayer language to you and the Lord, which is in the spirit, and the GIFT of Tongues, which requires interpretation as described in Corinthians 14 :[ NIV] Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. ... He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified. Remember, the Lord is NOT the author of confusion...
God Bless all that believe I Cor 12-14, It will happen if you have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and John 3:16 a seek to have a personal relationship with God the Father and His son Jesus Christ
Try Jesus for yourself and see his Love manifest in your life. Just because we take up our cross and follow Jesus, does not mean our lives will be so easy we still have problems just as you do but it is how we handle those problems.
As an important part of the great commission, of making disciples of all men, it is important to instruct people in the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. We are given enough information in I Cor 12-14, such that, this information along with what we should already know from the Bible (many of us anyway) that we should be receiving into manifestation speaking in tongues. These things are received by faith, which comes by one thing, hearing the word of God. So we do not want to hear confusing and opposing opinions of men, if we want to receive something from God, for those things only issue in confusion, doubt, and unbelief. However, if we can get more than a few people who have received speaking in tongues, then we have something to work with, along with all that the scripture says about it. The scripture says that we do the speaking, but the Holy Spirit gives the utterance (what to say) and that he is the Helper, and we are to be the doers. We will be doing the praying in the Spirit, just as we do the praying with out understanding. However the Holy Spirit is with us whether we pray or don't pray, and if we are praying with our understanding, we are in charge of what we pray, yet the Holy Spirit can still be helping us to some extent or another. Even so, it is still us doing the praying, because the words are coming from us. When praying in the Spirit, the words are completely given by the Spirit of God and we don't know what we are praying, so it is the Spirit of God praying through us. We are simply saying the sounds, the words the Spirit gives us. For people who have received this into manifestation, this is the easiest way to pray. We don't even think about what to pray. We can have our attention elsewhere if we want, but in our minds we will still be hearing he sounds the Holy Spirit gives us as long as we are praying in the Spirit, whether silently or out loud. The tendency of our mind will be to hear theses sounds, even though the mind did not originate them. That being as it is, we could still be concentrating on something we are doing, fixing a car or whatever, but some of our concentration might be lost as our mind will want to listen to those sounds. It will hear those sounds as long as we are praying in the Spirit. An entire church could do this all together if they wanted to, all praying in the Spirit silently, and anybody who comes in wouldn't hear a thing. But it all were praying out loud, they would think we were either nuts, or clearly out of order, unless for some purpose this was being done, as in some kind of class on initial receiving of it or something like that. I know we have liberty in Christ Jesus to function with these things he gives us, and we need to walk wisely with what he gives us. If we were doing a class on interpretation of tongues, we might want to be sure everyone there speaks in tongues fluently, so we might give each one a chance to do so, and we will hear the tongue and make sure this is genuine. For without first walking in speaking in tongues, how will one interpret, as the one who has spoken in a tongue should be the one interpreting. Paul covered this well. It's all about walking in love. If you do the speaking in a tongue in a public church meeting when called upon or invited by the leadership to do so, then you should be the one who gives the interpretation. Don't think to put the interpreting on someone else. Did you ever wonder why God wants speaking in tongues with interpretation in the church, instead of just prophecy? The interpretation will by nature be prophecy, so why do you suppose God wants it done this way? Well this way we get to hear all the different tongues, and it's done decently and in order. Without interpretation of tongues, when would we ever get to hear tongues? We might, but without interpretation, there would be no message of edification, by way of comfort and exhortation, would there? There is so much help we could receive one of another on these things, and as long as we use scripture as our rule, we really should not go wrong. Everything we need to start walking responsibly in these things, keeping the commandments of the Lord given in I Cor 12-14, we should be able to do. All the necessary information is all there, nothing missing. Those who have received should be able to help others. All we need is permission from the leadership, and the liberty to walk as we ought to walk in Christ Jesus, helping one another with whatever measure we have received of the Lord. As we have received, we should be able to minister the same, one to another.
There are diff tongues
Personal tongues for prayer and edification
Then tongues w interpretation for all of Gods people a word directly from the Lord
For to edify His CHURCH ..prophecy speak heal over them as a whole GOD IS GOD
He can do whatever he wants when He wants
Some are actual gifts that people are given where God uses that through them to speak to someone of a different country/ language through a person that doesn’t know or speak the language they are being used as a mouth piece to teach someone and agow His power and super natural ability
And for others they are given other gifts
And only speak tongues in prayer
Or just randomly to show you his power and glory and show you who he is
Stop playing God read your bibles 1cori thia s is VERY CLEAR
It is the HolySpirit who reveals the secret treasure of heaven in earth & one of it is praying in tongues. The enemy & his agents try hard as much as they can to prove speaking in tongues is just a language what people can understand & it is written. This is is deception a lie from the pit of hell.
The “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing today is an entirely self-created phenomenon. It is non-cognitive non-language utterance; random free vocalization based upon a subset of the existing sounds of the speaker’s native language, and any other language(s) the speaker may be familiar with or have had contact with. It is typically characterized by repetitive syllables, plays on sound patterns, and over-simplification of syllable structure. “Tongues” may be either spoken or sung. Due to the nature of how it is produced, no two people will ever have the same “tongue”.
People believe something to be supernatural because they can't explain it otherwise.
There is _nothing_ however that these ‘speakers’ are producing that cannot be explained in natural linguistic terms.
Conversely, there are no Biblical references to ‘tongues” that cannot be explained with respect to real language. Indeed, the patristic view supports “tongues” as rational (foreign) languages.
Early Pentecostal/Charismatic ‘tongues-speakers’ looked for Scriptural references for what they were doing, since their original supposition (xenoglossy) definitely wasn’t it; however, Scriptural references were simply not there. The resulting implicit theology was not a synthesis of revelation and philosophy, but rather a synthesis of trying to make sense of the “tongues experience” in light of the narrative of Scripture.
In other words, a way to legitimize the modern phenomenon by ‘proofing‘ it in the Bible, despite the obvious overwhelming absence therein of anything resembling modern tongues - call it what you will, but the result was a virtual re-definition of Scripture with respect to the understanding/justification of modern “tongues” for this group of Christians.
Two of the best examples of this classic re-definition are the phrase “praying in the Spirit”, and the word “tongue(s)” itself.
The Greek word translated “pray in” can have several different meanings/nuances. It can mean “by means of,” “with the help of,” “in the sphere of,” and “in connection to.” Praying in the Spirit does _not_ refer to the words we are saying. Rather, it refers to _how_ we are praying.
In the three places the phrase is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely no reference to 'languages' in connection with the phrase. Therefore, “praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phase has come to be equated with 'tongues'. A reading into Scripture of something that was just never there.
The word “tongue(s)” is simply a more archaic word for (real) “language(s)”, nothing more. Replace “tongue(s)” with “language(s)” in these passages and the whole modern Pentecostal/Charismatic concept of “tongues” begins to become difficult to posit - “language(s)” sounds a lot less mysterious. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phase has come to be equated with the modern concept of “tongues-speech”. Again, a reading into Scripture something that was never there.
“Tongues” is simply not what its ‘speakers’ want/need it to be.
Modern tongues is just another tool, like chanting or meditation, etc.; a way by which one may establish a closer relationship with the divine and strengthen one’s spiritual path. In this respect (i.e. as the _tool_ it is), it can be quite powerful to accomplish this goal, as attested by many of those who use it.
Most people who use it are very keen on describing the ‘experience’; however, when examining the “mechanics” behind it, not so much.
Contrary to Pentecostal/Charismatic belief, there is no ‘continual chain’ of tongues in the church; just sporadic reports of individuals producing what, in a few examples, appear to be similar (if not identical) to modern tongues. Unfortunately, most of these writings describe the experience, not the mechanics behind it. As a result, they are more often vague at best at describing what is actually happening with respect to language/tongues.
What Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians are doing today, 150 years ago, did not exist in the Christian tradition.
Known by many different names, “tongues”, or more accurately “glossolalia”, is practiced by many cultures and religious beliefs from all over the world; it is relatively new to Christianity and certainly not unique to it.
Kavik, Are you aware that speaking in tongues can not be done by human ability alone? It is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, and people do it every day. Speaking in tongues, since it is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit,
I have to respectfully disagree - as a linguist having studied glossolalia both in the Christian and non-Christian traditions, it is an entirely self-created phenomenon; there just isn’t anything you’re doing in the production of “tongues” that cannot be easily explained in natural/linguistic terms. One may be inspired by the Holy Spirit to engage in “tongues”, but what you’re producing is by no means ‘divinely inspired speech’ - in fact, modern “tongues” is not language of any kind.
What you’re doing is no different from what, say, an Evenki Shaman is doing in Siberia.
As previously stated, when it comes to something spoken, there are absolutely no Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s).
The God-given talent/natural ability for some people to easily learn languages AND using that ability in the church to spread the message of Christianity and for the glory of God is the manifestation of the “gift of tongues (read ‘languages’) in Paul’s writings.
With respect to modern tongues - If the history of the Pentecost movement is examined, one fact is very clear: at some point between 1906 and 1907, Pentecostal/Charismatic leaders were compelled to re-examine the narrative of Scripture with respect to “tongues”. The reason for this re-examination was that it quickly became embarrassingly obvious that their original supposition, xenoglossy, certainly wasn’t what they were producing.
This forced a serious theological dilemma - As a whole, either the Pentecostal movement would have to admit it was wrong about “tongues”, or the modern experience needed to be completely redefined. It seems the latter option was chosen.
As stated further above, the resulting implicit theology however was not a synthesis of revelation and philosophy, but rather a synthesis of trying to make sense of the modern “tongues experience” in light of the narrative of Scripture. A way to legitimize and justify the modern phenomenon by ‘proofing’ it in the Bible. The problem with this however, was an obvious overwhelming absence therein of anything resembling modern tongues.
Call it what you will, but for this group of Christians, the result was a virtual re-definition of scripture with respect to the understanding and justification of modern “tongues”; a re-interpretation of select texts to fit the modern practice/connotation of what ”tongues” was perceived to be.
The most damning result of this re-definition of scripture is the reading into texts of things that are just not there and never were.
Sir, if you have not studied speaking in tongues, which is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, you have only studied gibberish and foolishness. If you have two people, side by side, one of which speaks in tongues, and one who fakes tongues, doing so by human effort alone, and they give you full, honest cooperation, what you will find is that one of them flows naturally, and can go on continually, even for an hour, while the other one can produce nothing of the sort, and this will be clearly evident, so much so, that not even a fool could make the mistake of not knowing the difference, and this would happen every time you tried this with multiple thousands of pairs of people, as long as one speaks in tongues and one does not, and they fully cooperate with you. Go do your real study.
Your example is one that I frequently use when demonstrating what I would differentiate between ‘real’ and ‘fake’ “tongues”/glossolalia.
The person who is making the conscious effort to produce glossolalia will end up with glossolalia that sounds, well, ‘forced’ - within a minute of listening to it, it will become quite obvious that a very conscious effort is being used to produce it. It’s not random free-vocalization at all; there’s too much of an obvious conscious effort involved.
True glossolalia flows from the subconscious and is completely random free vocalization; non-cognitive non-language utterance (as described in one of my previous posts). The result of this, is that the part of the brain that produces and controls language production is not at all overly engaged - this was demonstrated some years ago by a study done by the Univ. of PA using SPECT imaging. One doesn’t need to think about what or how one produces it, it just flows. It’s a bit like listening to a toddler playing with the sounds of language; there’s virtually no conscious effort involved.
You’re exactly right; the person who is producing glossolalia from the subconscious mind can go on for hours and hours as it’s completely random and there’s virtually no conscious effort made in its production. The best analogy I can think of is something like a person humming a random made-up tune as they’re working on something (raking a yard, for example) - they could hum for hours because the ‘tune’ is completely random and flows from the person’s subconscious.
Yes, again you’re correct - the above scenario could be done with any number of people with the same results; the subconscious produced glossolalia will always “win out” over the one produced by conscious effort.
Works the exact same way with other cultures and traditions that practice glossolalia.
Speaking in tongues is world wide, and God is no respecter of persons.
Greek translation is »he speak to A god" Not. 'To god '!
Go back to Sunday School.
So what is the statement you want to make? 'A god' the watchtower god?
Wrong. The God is A God and the one true God. Keep digging. Leave the deception of cessationism
What an idiot. Like you know Greek. Jehovah Witness Deceiver!
Demons definitely jumped him.
Rev. Sabino Gamez 😂
Cuckoo talk...
What do you mean by that comment?