Chet Baker Sings: The Most Iconic Tone Poet vs. The Original Pressing
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- Опубликовано: 27 янв 2024
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The Tone Poet sounds like the master tape. I don't recall having to eq anything on that session. As I have stated before, many compromises were made in cutting LPs at that time, particularly in low-end content. I'm for whatever one prefers and makes you enjoy the music. If that is chasing (and paying for) originals, that is a beautiful thing. If hearing what is actually on the master tape is more the direction you want to take, we're there for you. Either way, it's all good.
Joe, I bought this tone poet just before Covid and it turned me on audiophile LPs. I had a cheap euro version before and the difference was just striking. BTW, very important album for me - my wife and I had the song Time After Time playing on our wedding dance some years ago and we listen to the album a lot when the baby goes to sleep. Thanks for your work and for your dedication!
@@doravidan9261 glad you're digging them and thank you for the kind words
If I have to guess why the midrange is emphasized more on the original, it may be the tube playback repro from reel to reel machine when record was cut. Some tubes from that era were emphasizing the midrange and loosing little bit on microdetails. Kevin's playback system being solid state Class A is on the neutral side and more revealing. I have to confess that I prefer Tone Poet editions to OG and I love your work, not only from Blue Note Tone Poet.
I am a completist with the Tone Poets and the Classics. Then I also wanted to know and bought 3 BlueNote OG's. My Resumee: Dont fall into the OG marketing. Nothing is better here. Au contraire. Tone Poets are perfect. Buying OG's, as good as they are, is a gamble. Very Good is sometimes not listenable.
Mid range was emphasised in the 1950's to compensate for the playback equipment of the period ie to sound better on the majority of equipment at the time
I’ve been hearing about this Tone Poet for ages and have never heard it. Amazon has it currently at $25.67 US right now, so I ordered one.
Would say we can all agree, the information you present is important as it helps us better understand what we can expect from records we care to invest. In addition, your reviews are always entertaining. Thank you, Michael !
This is the most interesting type of video for me. Looking forward to the Sabbath video. Keep them coming please, Michael!
Thank you for this video. I always enjoy your take on various pressings, and I learned a new German word; "Schmelz" 😁
What Steve Jobs did for communication,
Joe Harley did it for vinyl ~
What a valuable video! Thank you.
Hi Michael, I agree with you. I also did the comparison of the 12 inch and the tone poet and you are right. The best sound is in the Mosaic box.
This type of video is what brought me to your channel. Love this type. new pressings vs. others.
Da man ! Great work.
I love his voice
I own both. As others have stated the mid-range was lifted and enhanced on the original, and that's where the human voice frequency range resides. For the singing record, that's likely a plus. However, and this is huge however - when comparing the two in both upper and lower frequencies, focusing on instruments the Tone Poet version leaves the original in the dust. Hence, if I am to chose the favorite between the two, I would certainly chose the Tone Poet, it's wonderfully mastered and as close to the master tape we will ever get. Which the original isn't, sorry to burst your bubble. All good.
Thanks, makes sense.
I found the early one sounds like it has more midrange because they cut out the other frequencies. The Tone Poet sounds like it has full frequencies on my system
Exactly, I dont understand whats going on these days.
You are correct.
Started watching your channel because of your Blue Note reviews and I really enjoyed your comparison of this magnificent title! Looking forward to the next one 😁
Great and interesting video Michael.
I personally find most of the time poets quite bright. I feel like they love to bring out the cymbals to make it jump out and boosting the highs can feel “clearer” and more exciting to some. Liberties are always taken in the mixing process, is nice to have this comparison. I would prefer more midtones for this record since that’s closer to where his voice sits and would have more of the subtleties you note. I might have to hunt down one of the older copies!
We never boost highs...in fact the moves we occasionally make are very subtle and generally in the low end. For the most part the master tapes are fine as is. We do adjust track levels from cut to cut so you don't have to continually reach for the volume knob. If you are finding that most Tone Poets are "bright" I would suggest something else is going on.
Maybe more midrange on the old pressings so it could be heard clearly on radios from the 50’s.
As always Michael, your insighful feedback on the Chet Baker Tone Poet compared to the original 10" and the 12" pressings is very much appreciated. Thank you.
Great to see such kind of comparisons. Thanks so much, Michael!
Thank you Michael for this wonderful comparison!
As mentioned below, many limitations were performed on record releases back in the non-audiophile days.
High frequency and low frequencies were attenuated and dynamic range was compressed to allow listening on the playback equipment these days without any issues.
Also, on other Chet Baker records I own, his voice does seem somewhat rough and a bit high pitched and not very smooth. But that’s the beauty of his voice.
Hi Michael, great video and nice idea to compare with its OG’s. I was lucky enough to pick up both of the Chet TP’s as well as the Craft RSD Mono of ‘Chet’ last year, and am very fond of them. I was a little confused when you described Chet’s vocal “pitch”, as I think you’re actually describing his tone or tambour. If his vocal pitch was higher then the rest of the recording would sound off key.. by removing midrange it would change the tone or colour of his voice.
Otherwise this was a really interesting one! I think many in the comments assume this is something to do with the era of playback equipment and mid range emphasis, which may be so, but I think it would be intriguing to catch up with Kevin Gray and Joe Harley at some point to discuss their findings and mastering choices throughout the series. That would be a treat! Although there are titles outside of this series which would be nice to discuss also. I think it would be interesting to ask about how the OG records compare with the master tapes, & was the vocal midrange on Chet Sings present on the tape or boosted for the OG cuts?
I hope you’re having a great year so far, and look forward to the next one.
I was not able to get that Tone Poet since it was some out for a while. I may look into it. That Said i have bought quite a few Tone Poets recently and They are quite nice.
"Quite nice" the ultimate insult 😂
The Tone Poet is still available everywhere.
Danke sehr für dieses Video. Generell ist die Qualität der Tone Poet Veröffentlichungen wirklich top. Von der Hülle bis zur Rille. Wurde von deren Arbeit bisher immer zufriedengestellt.
Raus in den Jazz
Hi Michael it's me jack ron 😂
Loved your video especially your explanation of records is in a very nice way. I hope everyone likes to watch your videos.
Best of luck 🤞
C25 😂
Hello Michael
The time you spent level matching is important but each lp has its own precise VTA calibration which effects tonality more than any parameter. Your cartridge is a high level transducer capable of extracting minute information and the VTA that each disc was originally cut is paramount in extracting maximum fidelity. I expect that the tone poet disc needs the rear of the tone arm to be lowered 1-3 mm and then relisten. Sometimes the amount of adjustment is significant. Listen carefully to the bass for the deepest but most tonally correct presentation
got 10" original, and i LOVE it! but it will play in full richness only on TRUE mono pickup.
An observation. Modern pressings, reissues have a deeper, fuller bass. Treble a little mixed. Modern reproduction processes, modern playback equipment and maybe a certain degree of sympathetic EQ'ing is changing the sound of the original.
Wow, this is very surprising to me. I've read through the comments on this video and a lot of them are really interesting and insightful. (Your subscribers include a lot of very sharp audiophiles & musicphiles!) I have nothing to add, just wanted to thank you and everyone who is participating in the conversation through their comments.
This is the last record I would sell from my collection. It is musically and sonically beautiful. Recorded 65 years ago, it sounds as if Chet Baker were in my living room, delivering all the delights of mono.
You have made many (literally many) excellent comparisons between the original, first repress, and the more modern Tone Poets, etc. The originals/first repress outdoes the new versions 3:1 (check your videos). If you were looking to build a collection and actively watch your channel, why would you continue spending? If you know the original will be better and cost less (not counting the cost to acquire all these versions), what is the likelihood of you or others playing the newer versions? There must be other avenues, artists, and genres that you could explore.
I use different mono Stylus when I’m playing my 10 inch 😊
The german Tom Port : Michael 'Midrange' 45!
Mike F may be unhappy that there is no one in control and not doing the new one with the “artist intent” 🤣
The original sounds fantastic
The original was mastered so that the playback systems of the day could cope, so it would have had mid range emphasis which would explain the endearing vocal quality of the original. Thanks for the comparison. The Tone Poet is a very fine edition imho.
Hallo Michael,
ich bin ein riesen Fan von the Police und habe mir damals das Half-Speed Master Boxset geholt. Nicht die beste Wahl, wie sich herausstellte. Könntest du vielleicht mal ein Shootout Video dazu machen, denn die Vielzahl der Releases (OG, Audiophile Edition, aktuelle Reissues...) überfordern mich einfach.
Bei Bob Marley geht es mir ähnlich. Die UHQR´s möchte ich mir nicht leisten und ich habe keinen Plan, welche Pressung wie klingt. Wäre super, wenn du ein Video dazu machen könntest.
Und danke, dass du wieder Reviews machst - die schaue ich immer sehr gerne.
Viele Grüße 🙂
while I am only 16(yes, 16). I am fortunate enough to own both the 1956 12' version of this album, and the Tone Poet, and I came to a very similar conclusion as you did about it. I also noticed the strange change in pitch as well. Perhaps there was some issue with the tape after all these years that makes just his vocal a little higher pitched?
Hey Michael! Happy Saturday! In what order you put Acoustic Sounds Series on your shelf? Is it grouped by Impulse/Verve/… or it’s in series release order? Thanks!
Hey,do you have any experience with waxtimes,pan am records, DOL,jazz images,not now music,vinyl passion, doxy,jazz wax records,etc. ? Because I'd buy the blue note tone poet new version of it.
Many re-issues are made like Zappa says: "we are only in for the money!"
These type of comparisons are great. Is it possible they manipulated the speed of the tapes slightly with the present day reissue? Chet Baker, a shadow of himself later in life due to drug addiction. The bane of many jazz musicians
we did not "manipulate the speed of the tape" when we mastered this.
@@joeharley8396 I'm not an engineer or expert, just a layman enthusiast. I imagine there's probably a difference in modern day mastering equipment vs. legacy equipment from the era the records were made, if that has any bearing. Although some preserve and refurbish legacy analog equipment for modern day mastering to replicate the signal chain as much as possible to the original. Thank you
It would be great if you could find some way to allow your viewers to download samples of the different pressings instead of just talking about them. I know youtube is tight about music rights... Is it illegal to host samples on soundcloud or something like that? I know radio people who have airchecks of their music shows archived there and they have complete songs as they played on the radio. You could then include the links in your description...
Michael its the tubes made in the 50s... No solid state or modern tubes can reproduce the sweetness nor the analogue feeling of the time. And of course the oil industry was very much different in these times, so the vinyl itself is very unique. These products are like classical buildings, you can rebuild suchwise but your knowing how, your gears and your skills are not the same, sorry. The joe harleys statements are ok i guess, but i at least bare in mind that he is actually co-seller of the tone poet products. Don't get me wrong, they are fine products, but if you have heard of originals *blue notes in particular* the statements made by sellers that are inferior or not as precise as to tone poets are ridiculous, not to my ears but to the facts that, ok Kevin Gray etc are good engineers and a good excuse for the industry to rise 100% the prices, especially to newly introduced audiences . But Van Gelder was the real thing. In both sounding and mastering. The same goes with BBC engineering of the british prog and psychedelia. UNSURPASSED.
actually the 1956 Chet Baker sings reissue is very expensive and impossible to get a clean copy without noise.
Hast du auch einen deutschen Kanal?
My opinion here and perhaps I missed your inout of them. The OJC series by Craft is great and for me you are sleeping on a great series at its beginning (or should I say new start).
Preis: 42 bis 53 Euro für Tone Poet Reissue. Lieber Michael, gibt es gewichtige Gründe, dass Du 3 wesentliche Infos weggelassen hast?: 1. Alle 3 erwähnten Presungen müssen Mono-Scheiben sein, da allein 2 davon schon 1954 und 1957 in den Handel kamen - bevor es mit Stereo losging. Die Tone Poet dürfte auch Mono, sonst wäre sie künstlich stereofoniert worden, was bekanntlich gruselig klingt. 2. Offen lässt Du, ob Du diese Scheiben mit Mono-Abtaster gehört hast. Falls nicht, wäre Dein Höreindruck behindert, da Monovinyl ja mit Stereoabtaster nur halb so gut ist wie mit einem puren Monosystem wie Miyajima Zero Mono (ich habe eines). Du hast dies, glaube ich, auch in einem früheren Video erwähnt und verkündet, Einstein werde so einen Abtaster extra anfertigen. 3. Du hast den Preis der Tonepoet weggelassen, obwohl Du den PREIS in Deinem Shop ja kennen musst. Was soll das? US-RUclipsr nennen fast immer Preise, egal ob Vinyl oder Hifi-Komponenten. Was behindert Dich bei diesem Punkt? Skurril. Abgesehen davon: ein gutes Video, so wie die meisten anderen von Dir.
No one new about the Chet Baker Sings Lp until Waxed discovered it 3 months ago.
But you dont detect lack of bass or treble in the OGs...
not in this case .. no
Pump the bass at the cost of midrange & treble …not much else to say