You Sir are the best FightSim RUclipsr on RUclips. You give great real information with Zero BS. You are not selling anything just giving honest comments and invaluable inormation. Cheers.
Check your SENSITIVITY settings for the VJOY Device after setting this up as mine were not set to 0 and caused issues with sensitivity around the centre! Thank you so much for making this video, it makes a HUGE difference
Thank you so much for the review Mark! I'm so pleased to see people finding the software useful. If anyone has any feedback for the app do let me know and I'll do my best to add fixes and features as they come up.
I find sim trim unrealistic. When flying a real airplane you move the column to get the condition you want and then you move the trim wheel until the column pressure is gone - done. In the sim we don't have the pressure feedback and so we hunt and peck. I am sure the increased resolution will help but it doesn't address the real situation. My best thought is to move the sim column to get the condition you want (like vertical speed zero or whatever you want) and then push a button that sets that condition when you move the stick back to neutral. That would be closer to realism but might be hard to do with an app but would be easy in the sim itself.
@@johnshaw7107 It's not the same as real planes of course but you do trim out the pressure with sims in a way. You have to actively keep using force to push/pull the yoke to the attitude you're looking for and then you trim until you no longer need to apply that pressure, gradually returning the yoke to the default position as you trim.
Honestly, I'm not sure if I'd play this game if it wasn't for you. The information in your videos, the tricks you've taught me to make the sim more immersive... the list goes on and on. THANK YOU!
Thank you so much for that „aha“-effect! I like the way you explain. Everything right on spot, slow enough to check everything but not as slow as you were sleeping, like many others sound like. This tutorial gets me closer to perfection. Greetings from Germany!
Hi Mark, thanks for your detailed explanation! Really easy to follow when implementing. However, I want to add my experience: The implementation as an axis worked (as in your video), but you must be sure no other controls change the trim, e.g. the buttons on the Alpha Yoke, or the autopilot. For testing this I set the trim to 25% via the wheel, then changed it via the yoke trim buttons to 0%. A light touch on the wheel then changed the trim to 24%, that means where the axis left off. So this way of implementation (as an axis) works only if the trim wheel is the only way you change the trim. This is what I guessed beforehand as other axis (like throttle) show the same behaviour. Then I tried the implementation as button multiplier. However, the tuning app seems to be 'sensitive' to changes in the fields 'Hold after ...ms' and 'Release Hold after ...'. Most of the time the Vjoy did not show anything after this change (I also checked in the Windows game controller settings, where you can see the vjoy buttons fire (if they do)). Additionally, I found that the planes react differently to the trim wheel, some are quite responsive, some nearly do nothing, because the increments are so small. That means, a general multiplier for all planes will not be suitable. So I hope that MS/Asobo will change this in the sim itself, it should be quite easy to setup the amount of trim change triggered by a button 22/23 fire. But don't get me wrong, I appreciate the explanation in your video and also the work of the developer of this tool, just for my way of using the sim (trim also via Yoke buttons and Autopilot) it adds problems while improving other handling, so I will wait and hope for the Asobo fix.
This is a notorious problem and I've spent way too many hours trying to find a solution that works to my satisfaction. Asobo needs to implement an "infinite axis" plus a "continue the setting where it left off" to deal with this. As it is, with the axis settings, it's outright "dangerous" when you fly part of your approach with AP and then disconnect at the FAF to hand-fly. Your trim will be totally off whack and your entire approach becomes the opposite of stabilised.
Amazing solution!! Works 100% perfect. I would like to suggest for ATA: 1.Minimize to Windows tray option. 2.Load minimized (on tray) 3. Load on Windows startup (also hidden on tray) and 4. Autostart X profile on load. Basically the same options of TrackIR program. Remain hidden but working every time. Tnx!
I confess Sir! I've owned my Alpha and Bravo now for three days and I've been spinning that badboy like I'm on 'Wheel of Fortune'! I thought there has to be something out there to fix this and you didn't dissapoint. Your a god damn hero Sir! Subbed and Discorded! Many thanks! 😁
Superb guide Mark, just what I was looking for. It does make you wonder why Honeycomb made it a pulse thing rather than an axis in the first place considering it’s a wheel 🤔👍
Because of the issue with autopilot, which controls the trim, but unlike a real aircraft can't actually move your trim wheel. To visualise with an example: you are flying an approach partially with autopilot, with vpath. You've set your throttle (I only fly GA without auto-throttle), the autopilot will set your trim appropriately for your glidepath. You reach the FAF and want to take over and manually fly the approach. Everything is fine until you inevitably want to fine-tune your trim. At that moment, the sim will read the axis value which could be vastly off from where the AP left it. For arguments sake, imagine the AP had it at 10% nose up and the last time you had turned the wheel the axis value was at 20% nose down. Not a fun experience when the sim suddenly pitches your aircraft down on final approach and you are wrestling the yoke until you've "caught up" with the right trim. Real planes have crashed due to trim malfunction - this is like that.
Thank you for this video! I can’t tell you how many hours I tried getting this to work beforehand and it drove me absolutely crazy. I almost just went with a lower quality setup just so I didn’t have to deal with this trim wheel issue. Really appreciate it.
I find this interesting. I lived for many years using a typical button setup for trim axis, like a hat switch or the trim buttons on the Honeycomb Alpha. I hated the buttons because I could never find the right trim. I would ALWAYS get to the point where on click was too much or not enough and the proper trim was right in the middle. When I got the Bravo it was like a whole other world. I could finally nail the EXACT trim I wanted. Until I saw this video I just assumed it WAS an axis. I don't know how it can still be button presses and yet be so super precise, far more than any other button setup I've ever used. I also don't spin the wheel like you do in this video though, I move it deliberately like I would a real trim wheel. In fact I have the tension set so high on my Bravo the trim wheel won't spin anyway. Maybe that's why it works fine for me as is out of the box rather than needing to do this. Don't know but right now I find it golden heaven and don't want to mess with it, but will keep this in the back of my head.
great Video Mark. I always find your videos incredibly useful. As a Bravo owner I've been waiting for a solution like this to come along. Thank you do much for highlighting this app and for the great tutorial!
Excellent find and can't wait to try it out. The current trim setup (I also have a Bravo) is frustrating to say the least. Many thanks for another great video.
I just came across this video and it has been a god-send, I've done the same as you did here for the trim wheel although I made it slightly lest sensitive and also add to mappings for the Bravo's right knob as the default mapping is way too slow in the sim requiring huge numbers of turns just to (say) move the heading bug a few degrees.
Mark, as you stated at the beginning, the trim wheel is the only thing that didn't seem to work well with the Bravo, going to try this today, thank you Mark and Authentikit! Your channel is the best resource out there for sim flyers, somehow you find a way to keep improving the experience!
Hello. Could you tell me how was your experience with the trim wheel in the honeycomb throttle? I would really appreciate if you could give me your opinion
I find it a well built setup, easy to use except for the trim wheel which was overly sensitive until I started using this app to fine tune it@@pepeiglesias9603
Thank you Mark for another brilliant tutorial. I followed and set up the trim exactly as you explained, works like a charm. Only issue I have is with the Just Flight piper arrows, trim will only work between neutral and full nose down. It stops at neutral no matter which way I rotate the wheel. Can not achieve any nose up trim from neutral at all. Otherwise it’s excellent on all other aircraft. Massive thanks to Ian and yourself.
A refined British accent automatically lends authenticity to just about anything. If this gentleman assured me in a video that I would survive a fall from the top of the Eiffel Tower, I would believe him.
I followed your directions in setting up my trim wheel in MSFS. It worked beautifully and made flying so much more realistic. Then suddenly - without warning - the trim wheel stopped working. Colmanian made some suggestions, but these did not solve the problem. I wonder if you have encountered this issue? So here’s the story: Although I had actually followed your video in originally setting up the trim wheel, I watched the video again while running, first the vjoy monitor alone, and then vjoy with the sim. In vJoy monitor: ‘X’ responds appropriately to the trim wheel without MSFS running and then with MSFS running, but in the latter case, no response from the sim (i.e. on screen trim wheel did not move). In MSFS Control Options | Bravo Throttle Quadrant, search by input: wheel forward - button 22 search by input: wheel back - button 23 both these inputs also register in vJoy monitor Again, in the cockpit: no response from trim wheel - but vJoy monitor registers the movement correctly. I then checked all other peripherals, the only response to a name search for ‘trim’ was for rudder trim in Alpha Flight Controls. To see if it was just a case of the actual wheel movement not showing I tried using the wheel while flying; the trim controls do not operate. I can use the trim wheel with the mouse, but extremely large responses and impossible to use in landing. If you can help I would be very grateful. Robert
This could be a great solution to the notorious issue with warbirds such as the Spit or the P51D in DCS where it is impossible to fine tune trim unless you have an analog trim wheel!...a DCS review would be much appreciated. thanks
I'm not a real pilot but I take MSFS serious when I fly in it. I just bought the Turtle Beach setup and I really enjoy it I also got the thrusmaster rudder system. I really like the trim wheel on this setup it seems very true to life except when I am flying and every time I use my trim for the first time in a flight my plane always jerks up or down pretty hard. I do like that fact that this system has a tunning app.
Great video!! I hate that we have to go through all this. The better option would be for Microsoft to simply add a button multiplier option in game so we dont have to jump through hoops just to get a 250 dollar throttle quadrant to work.
Hi Mark, great video on the Authentikit. However, could I ask a favor? Would you please create another video based on the latest version on the Authentikit, as the latest version does not have a Button Multiplier selection?
What an interesting ,clear and concise review Mark ..well done! And well done to Authentikit for a great app 👍. Ps. Can't make up my mind if your grumpy or not ..in your thumbnail 😄😂 I quickly add that i love your sense of humour! .
NOTE: Only noticed this after the video ...on the Axis config, if you turn up the sensitivity to 860 or more it will reverse the axis. This can be fixed by lowering the sensitivity setting or checking the reverse axis box in the vjoy config.
Thank you for the video, Mark! As always, very clear, very thorough, and very helpful. I know it is important to you that your videos are clear, thorough, and helpful, and you've done a masterful job. Since you do care about the details and the gotchas, you may be interested in some things I discovered while making a video tutorial on how to multiply the button presses using some other freeware apps prior to this Authentikit Tuning App coming out. Fortunately, I don't even need to try to link my tutorial because it is obsolete now with this much better solution. At any rate, you may be interested to know: 1) All the digital trim wheels I looked at limit the number of button presses per second (and the minimum pulse width) in order to try to avoid overwhelming the sims. What this means is that spinning the trim wheel quickly (or not even all that quickly, really) you not only stand a chance of overwhelming the sim and getting less movement of the virtual trim wheel but you also reach the speed limit of the trim wheel's button presses, so you aren't really going any faster anyway. Of course, your advice to move the wheel slowly addresses both of these concerns. 2) When using a button press multiplier or holding a button or key that repeats, MSFS 2020 limits the maximum repeat rate in VR to something like half of what is it is 2D. So, you may see less movement of the virtual trim wheel in VR than you do in 2D, if you have exceeded the VR repeat limit. This can be very confusing, so I wanted to be sure to mention it here. If people run into trouble with this, they can make different tuning app profiles for VR and 2D. 3) An analog axis is the best way to get a 1:1 mapping of the movement of your physical trim wheel and the trim wheel in the sim, especially with the settings available in the tuning app, but there are some things to be aware of. First of all, as mentioned in #1 above, the wheel itself will likely limit the button presses per second, so moving the wheel faster will not result in the analog axis going faster once you are over a certain speed. Secondly, an analog axis used for trim means that the trim wheel in the sim is not just moved "up" or "down" as you move your physical trim wheel but that it also is set to an exact position. If you enable autopilot and it adjusts the trim to some other setting, the analog axis doesn't know about this change (although that would be a fantastic addition to the sim). So, once the autopilot is turned off, your trim in the sim may be set to, say, 3 degrees nose down, but your analog axis is still set to what it was before you enable autopilot, say 3 degrees nose up. The trim will stay where the AP set it until you go to adjust the trim with your wheel again. As soon as you touch the wheel, moving it ever so slightly, the analog axis setting takes over and you can see an instantaneous large jump in your trim setting (from what the AP had set it to last to what you had it set before engaging the AP). In a real plane, the trim wheel moves with the autopilot, so this is not a problem. For us, unless we have a motorized trim wheel, there's nothing we can really do about it other than be aware of it.
How timely! I spent all yesterday afternoon trying to get this very issue resolved with vjoy and Joystick Gremlin without a satisfactory result in my preferred aircraft (the DA62). The axis profile works mostly well, but there is a strange issue where nose down from TO trim is smooth, but nose up from TO is way too sensitive. Turns out that my default sensitivity for the vjoy axis was 85% - no idea where that setting came from, I hadn't set it before! The issue with autopilot trim versus vjoy axis remains, of course.
I've been at this problem for 3 hours tonight with my new Bravo..thought it was all about the Authentikit....and then I saw this 🙂 Thanks Michael. 👍👍👍 85% sensitivity as default!
Fantastic tutorial thank you Mark! I have one issue with the trim up where it jumps from around the neutral trim position to max trim up. Trim down works perfectly. Any idea what might be wrong?
I'd love to hear answers to the question, "Why didn't Honeycomb implement the trim wheel as an axis in the first place?" It seems such an incredibly obvious choice that I'm at a total loss to explain what method their might have been to their madness. Is there some advantage to Honeycomb's design that isn't obvious to me?
Most likely a question of cost. Probably cheaper to implement button presses because it requires less electronics. An axis would require a potentiometer or hall effect sesnor.
The answer is that having it be an axis interferes with autopilot functionality because the sim can't change what the physical axis is set to so the settings on the hardware and in-simulator end up diverging. Of course that could be fixed with "force feedback" where the sim could set the trim on the physical device as needed. That said, if you don't care about an autopilot having it present as an axis would be clearly the superior option and even virtually mapping it to an axis has some significant benefits. In addition to that if the software had a way to figure out the state of the trim axis in the simulator when autopilot was active, it also could just make the vjoy axis follow the autopilot easily.
Mark, I finally got Authentikit/vJoy working on my Bravo using the Bravo preset - i.e., the axis, not the button-press method. (My initial problem was my fault because I forgot the configuration of the vJoy controller in the sim.) But strangely, now that it is working, I have to set the sensitivity on about 5 or 6, even a setting of 10 will result in the trim going up or down by 10% or more with even a tiny nudge on the trim wheel. I note that you are mentioning sensitivity settings of 500 or even 900, which seem astronomical to me. Have you any idea why my experience is so different?
Thank you very much for this Mark. As usual, clear and precise instructions. And, of course, a very big thank you to @colmanian and @authentikit for their work, it is very much appreciated.
The newest version of AuthentiKit does not have "Start All", "Stop All", "Start", and "Delete" buttons. I have followed this tutorial to the letter, but Bravo trim wheel is dead. Not sure what I am doing wrong. Thinking that I am not doing "Start All" in the app because there is not that button. My profile, "Elevator Trim Axis" is created (tried both from the Preset and from scratch) and saved. Then loaded from the "File" menu. No way to "Start" it. Then open MSFS and decouple trim wheel from Bravo and set up the vJoy as you did. Any ideas about the current status of this app? Your opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for all the videos you create...much appreciated!!
Super interesting Mark, thanks making a guide! Curious as if we need to do both profiles? What's the difference between the first one the one with button multiplier? Thanks!
What Mark said :) The reason we added in the button option was just for the Sptifire Rudder Trim, since unlike the elevator trim MSFS only allows button input for rudder trim, rather than an axis. I'd use axis if the sim supports it for a given control as it's a much more accurate and responsive experience.
Too bad the " Authentikit" program could not also adjust the pulse rate for the mouse wheel. This has become an issue in MSFS ever since they incorporated the xbox into our PC simulator !
Is it possibel to use it for Thrustmaster LCM propedals for racing, and use it for FS2020 ?, waiting for answer Mark, very useabel videos from you Mark, always checking your videos , greetings from Sweden !
Thank you SimHanger. Another very useful video. I have a request, saw your video but I am still unable to figure out how to have working lights on the Honeycomb throttle. Would you mind doing one only for this. Thanks and sorry for the request. Ideally for both MSFS and XPlane
Thanks for all your videos keep it up. Was wondering if you have to apply all these settings for every type of plane in my list. single-double- jets etc. Thanks
Hi, I’ve watched several of your videos and found them very informative. I recently got a Honeycomb Bravo and installed the Authentikit Tuning App and vJoy driver, following your video, and had it working for my trim wheel. However I then noticed that MSFS2020 no longer recognized my USB Xbox controller. I run the desktop version of MSFS and use the controller to move the drone camera around. The culprit seems to be the vJoy driver. I finally removed the Tuning App and vJoy driver to restore the Xbox controller function. Do you know if there’s any work around for this issue? Thanks!
Hello. Could you tell me how was your experience with the trim wheel in the honeycomb throttle? I would really appreciate if you could give me your opinion
Hi Mark and greetings from Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA. Q: Have you, or anyone you know of, tried this application on X-Plane 12? Purchased the Honeycomb A&B a few weeks ago, and as a full scale pilot…noticed the the issue with the Bravo trim wheel does not reflect real world trim action. Would appreciate your thoughts. Best regards, Randy
Interesting, but the newest version does not provide Mapping Type: Button Multiplier. Is that part of this tutorial necessary? Edit: It is now "Remap Button to Virtual Button"
Hi Mark, thanks so much for the inspiration. Do the third party tools always have to run in the backround when I changed the sensivity for my bravo trim wheel and pay MSFS?
Axis in MSFS always tries to recenter, not keeping position ... vJoy shows the axis position correctly. No other mappings in MSFS for buttons of trim wheel (Honeycomb Bravo). Any ideas?
I am sorry but this website is confusing. They do not tell me how to open the tool, just how to install it. Where does it sit? There is no desktop icon, nor does the app search find it.
Hi Mark, brilliant! Got it to work as advertised. I tried it out on my Kodiak. In addition to setting the sensitivity in the App to 210, I noticed that setting the Extremity parameter on the L-Axis X's "sensitivity" setting to 30% gave me extra control. I now can control the elevator trim to exact percentage-points with minor wheel input. Before it would jump from 0 to 1, to 3%, instead of 0,1,2,3 etc. I also had to "reverse" the Axis setting. @IanColman: I did need to tweak the scaling of the app after install, as the font and buttons on the config screen were off. (R-click/Properties/Compatibility/Change High DPI settings/Override, performed by ). Lastly, I wonder what else we can now tweak to perfection? Thanks! Pipo.
Thanks Pipo, It's great to hear that you've got it working. Would you mind explaining a bit more about the 'Extremity parameter'? is it a vJoy setting that I haven't come across? I'm very interested in what we can do to make it work better for people, so the feedback is greatly appreciated. Cheers, Ian
@@colmanian Hi, so Vjoy gets added to msfs as a device, each device gets a mapping interface and a Sensitivity setting. Within the Sensitivity menu there are Axis by Axis settings for things like deadzone, or for how user input is translated i.e. linear for a throttle and slow then faster for a rudder, by preference of course. In there is also a parameter for Extremity, this sets how fast user input reaches the outer limits of the Axis. By limiting this range the elevation trim reacts in smaller increments, thus I see the percentage points of that trim go up one point at a time instead of occasional 2 point jumps.
This worked for me with the latest version as of 15 Feb 22, the sensitivity was at -85% on the + side for some reason, set them both to -50%, worked well on the Cessna 150, much easier to dial in descent rates.
Hi, I'm on a new computer so I had to re-install this. Latest versions are .Net 7.x, Vjoy 2.1.9.1, Tuning app 1.2.2. The tuning app now has a HoneyComb Bravo preset for MSFS, so no need to find buttons 22,23. Rest still works the same.
Does this not then introduce the problem that autopilot will change trim to maintain altitude but when you come off autopilot on approach and then touch the trim, you get an axis input spike? That was the problem with the Saikek trim wheel which although it has an encoder inside, it implements trim as an axis and it's a PITA. I modified my Saitek trim wheel to send encoder outputs to address this and achieve the same effect of sensitivity by managing aircraft profiles in spad.next and sending multiple trim simconnect commands per encoder input.
This software has now been updated and you can find the latest info here authentikit.org/atk-html/tuning/
You Sir are the best FightSim RUclipsr on RUclips.
You give great real information with Zero BS.
You are not selling anything just giving honest comments and invaluable inormation.
Cheers.
Check your SENSITIVITY settings for the VJOY Device after setting this up as mine were not set to 0 and caused issues with sensitivity around the centre! Thank you so much for making this video, it makes a HUGE difference
You, my friend, are a life saver! I could not work out why my results weren't like Mark's. Thanks so much for taking the time to post this.
Thanks. That was the trouble I was having.
Maaaaaan, this is the hint i was looking for. Thanks so much.
Jeez thank you I was thinking I had a hardware problem.
Thank you as well! Probably would have been days before I figured the sensitivity thing out lol.
What a great application! Since in airliners I never use the trim wheel on the Bravo I use it as a steering tiller. It works great!
thank you! I am still waiting for my rudder pedal, I didn't know I can use it as a tiller, could you send me a picture of your setting plz?
Great review Mark. We’ll add a built in preset for Honeycomb in our next update
Thanks guys! But now back to work, we need this update! ;-)
THANK YOU!!! this app is a true life saver, very much appreciated.
Downloaded this today with the preset already there 😍 So excellent! Thankyou for this.
@@svorgz3654 new version in beta test now
@@AuthentiKit You guys rock!
Thank you so much for the review Mark! I'm so pleased to see people finding the software useful. If anyone has any feedback for the app do let me know and I'll do my best to add fixes and features as they come up.
Thank you for your amazing application…a transformation for many. 👍
@@SimHangerFS My pleasure 😃
I find sim trim unrealistic. When flying a real airplane you move the column to get the condition you want and then you move the trim wheel until the column pressure is gone - done. In the sim we don't have the pressure feedback and so we hunt and peck. I am sure the increased resolution will help but it doesn't address the real situation. My best thought is to move the sim column to get the condition you want (like vertical speed zero or whatever you want) and then push a button that sets that condition when you move the stick back to neutral. That would be closer to realism but might be hard to do with an app but would be easy in the sim itself.
@@johnshaw7107 It's not the same as real planes of course but you do trim out the pressure with sims in a way. You have to actively keep using force to push/pull the yoke to the attitude you're looking for and then you trim until you no longer need to apply that pressure, gradually returning the yoke to the default position as you trim.
The solution in this video made the Trim Wheel on the Honeycomb finally behave as intended! Thanks for the great video.
I wish all RUclips videos where so well made and clearly explained. Great job!!!
Honestly, I'm not sure if I'd play this game if it wasn't for you. The information in your videos, the tricks you've taught me to make the sim more immersive... the list goes on and on. THANK YOU!
You are a big blessing to the whole community here. You are awesome!!!
Thank you so much for that „aha“-effect!
I like the way you explain. Everything right on spot, slow enough to check everything but not as slow as you were sleeping, like many others sound like.
This tutorial gets me closer to perfection.
Greetings from Germany!
Hi Mark, thanks for your detailed explanation! Really easy to follow when implementing.
However, I want to add my experience:
The implementation as an axis worked (as in your video), but you must be sure no other controls change the trim, e.g. the buttons on the Alpha Yoke, or the autopilot. For testing this I set the trim to 25% via the wheel, then changed it via the yoke trim buttons to 0%. A light touch on the wheel then changed the trim to 24%, that means where the axis left off. So this way of implementation (as an axis) works only if the trim wheel is the only way you change the trim. This is what I guessed beforehand as other axis (like throttle) show the same behaviour.
Then I tried the implementation as button multiplier. However, the tuning app seems to be 'sensitive' to changes in the fields 'Hold after ...ms' and 'Release Hold after ...'. Most of the time the Vjoy did not show anything after this change (I also checked in the Windows game controller settings, where you can see the vjoy buttons fire (if they do)).
Additionally, I found that the planes react differently to the trim wheel, some are quite responsive, some nearly do nothing, because the increments are so small. That means, a general multiplier for all planes will not be suitable.
So I hope that MS/Asobo will change this in the sim itself, it should be quite easy to setup the amount of trim change triggered by a button 22/23 fire.
But don't get me wrong, I appreciate the explanation in your video and also the work of the developer of this tool, just for my way of using the sim (trim also via Yoke buttons and Autopilot) it adds problems while improving other handling, so I will wait and hope for the Asobo fix.
This is a notorious problem and I've spent way too many hours trying to find a solution that works to my satisfaction. Asobo needs to implement an "infinite axis" plus a "continue the setting where it left off" to deal with this. As it is, with the axis settings, it's outright "dangerous" when you fly part of your approach with AP and then disconnect at the FAF to hand-fly. Your trim will be totally off whack and your entire approach becomes the opposite of stabilised.
Amazing solution!! Works 100% perfect. I would like to suggest for ATA: 1.Minimize to Windows tray option. 2.Load minimized (on tray) 3. Load on Windows startup (also hidden on tray) and 4. Autostart X profile on load. Basically the same options of TrackIR program. Remain hidden but working every time. Tnx!
What a great tool. I got a Bravo Throttle Quadrant for Christmas. This and all your other setup videos will save me a bunch of time.
Thanks,
Steve
I confess Sir! I've owned my Alpha and Bravo now for three days and I've been spinning that badboy like I'm on 'Wheel of Fortune'! I thought there has to be something out there to fix this and you didn't dissapoint. Your a god damn hero Sir! Subbed and Discorded! Many thanks! 😁
This button to axis looks like it works great! I might give this a go. I was thinking that maybe my trim wheel was broken lol super helpful matr
Superb guide Mark, just what I was looking for. It does make you wonder why Honeycomb made it a pulse thing rather than an axis in the first place considering it’s a wheel 🤔👍
Because of the issue with autopilot, which controls the trim, but unlike a real aircraft can't actually move your trim wheel. To visualise with an example: you are flying an approach partially with autopilot, with vpath. You've set your throttle (I only fly GA without auto-throttle), the autopilot will set your trim appropriately for your glidepath. You reach the FAF and want to take over and manually fly the approach. Everything is fine until you inevitably want to fine-tune your trim. At that moment, the sim will read the axis value which could be vastly off from where the AP left it. For arguments sake, imagine the AP had it at 10% nose up and the last time you had turned the wheel the axis value was at 20% nose down. Not a fun experience when the sim suddenly pitches your aircraft down on final approach and you are wrestling the yoke until you've "caught up" with the right trim. Real planes have crashed due to trim malfunction - this is like that.
Thank you for this video! I can’t tell you how many hours I tried getting this to work beforehand and it drove me absolutely crazy. I almost just went with a lower quality setup just so I didn’t have to deal with this trim wheel issue. Really appreciate it.
Superb fix. Finally proper trim control.
Very welcome setting Paul!!..Thanks for this and alway's.....
I don't know how I missed this but a top notch video as usual, Mark. Thank you. And well done to Authentikit. This is how things should work. Lovely.
I find this interesting. I lived for many years using a typical button setup for trim axis, like a hat switch or the trim buttons on the Honeycomb Alpha. I hated the buttons because I could never find the right trim. I would ALWAYS get to the point where on click was too much or not enough and the proper trim was right in the middle.
When I got the Bravo it was like a whole other world. I could finally nail the EXACT trim I wanted. Until I saw this video I just assumed it WAS an axis. I don't know how it can still be button presses and yet be so super precise, far more than any other button setup I've ever used.
I also don't spin the wheel like you do in this video though, I move it deliberately like I would a real trim wheel. In fact I have the tension set so high on my Bravo the trim wheel won't spin anyway. Maybe that's why it works fine for me as is out of the box rather than needing to do this. Don't know but right now I find it golden heaven and don't want to mess with it, but will keep this in the back of my head.
great Video Mark. I always find your videos incredibly useful. As a Bravo owner I've been waiting for a solution like this to come along. Thank you do much for highlighting this app and for the great tutorial!
I'm really pleased you've found the app helpful Lior, thanks for the feedback :)
Thanks again Mark, this looks really good. You certainly provide us with great information. Most informative with very clear instructions.
Excellent find and can't wait to try it out. The current trim setup (I also have a Bravo) is frustrating to say the least. Many thanks for another great video.
Great video. I had written off the trim wheel on my Bravo as worthless junk. This video fixed me up. So happy I found it and did the fix.
Nice. And in the latest Version of the Tuning App, your Elevator Axis Setting is now added as a Preset.
you are my star, sir, you have helped me so much during my sim flight journey, thank you from the botton of my heart!
I just came across this video and it has been a god-send, I've done the same as you did here for the trim wheel although I made it slightly lest sensitive and also add to mappings for the Bravo's right knob as the default mapping is way too slow in the sim requiring huge numbers of turns just to (say) move the heading bug a few degrees.
Mark, as you stated at the beginning, the trim wheel is the only thing that didn't seem to work well with the Bravo, going to try this today, thank you Mark and Authentikit! Your channel is the best resource out there for sim flyers, somehow you find a way to keep improving the experience!
Hello. Could you tell me how was your experience with the trim wheel in the honeycomb throttle? I would really appreciate if you could give me your opinion
I find it a well built setup, easy to use except for the trim wheel which was overly sensitive until I started using this app to fine tune it@@pepeiglesias9603
Mark, thanks a lot for an excellent, crisp, no-nonsense, and easy to understand tutorial!
Mark, your channel is a gem. Many thanks.
Thanks Mark, just what I've been looking for. Trim wheel drives me crazy as it is ...
I’m grateful you guys created this!! Great review Mark :)
Flew around the bush all morning and trim finally works! So much more enjoyable!!
Hi Trent, I'm really pleased that you're finding the software useful. Happy flying! Ian
Thank you Mark for another brilliant tutorial. I followed and set up the trim exactly as you explained, works like a charm. Only issue I have is with the Just Flight piper arrows, trim will only work between neutral and full nose down. It stops at neutral no matter which way I rotate the wheel. Can not achieve any nose up trim from neutral at all. Otherwise it’s excellent on all other aircraft. Massive thanks to Ian and yourself.
Thank you very much. I was getting really flustered with bravo.
Very useful information. Thanks for sharing it in a clear concise manner.
A refined British accent automatically lends authenticity to just about anything. If this gentleman assured me in a video that I would survive a fall from the top of the Eiffel Tower, I would believe him.
🤣
Sounds more like a South African accent to me haha
@@typical_tupolev3924 Northern neighbour…Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) 😀
You’d need a French accent to survive the fall
Your tutorial was super easy to follow. You know how to teach
I followed your directions in setting up my trim wheel in MSFS. It worked beautifully and made flying so much more realistic. Then suddenly - without warning - the trim wheel stopped working. Colmanian made some suggestions, but these did not solve the problem. I wonder if you have encountered this issue?
So here’s the story:
Although I had actually followed your video in originally setting up the trim wheel, I watched the video again while running, first the vjoy monitor alone, and then vjoy with the sim.
In vJoy monitor: ‘X’ responds appropriately to the trim wheel without MSFS running and then with MSFS running, but in the latter case, no response from the sim (i.e. on screen trim wheel did not move).
In MSFS Control Options | Bravo Throttle Quadrant,
search by input: wheel forward - button 22
search by input: wheel back - button 23
both these inputs also register in vJoy monitor
Again, in the cockpit: no response from trim wheel - but vJoy monitor registers the movement correctly.
I then checked all other peripherals, the only response to a name search for ‘trim’ was for rudder trim in Alpha Flight Controls.
To see if it was just a case of the actual wheel movement not showing I tried using the wheel while flying; the trim controls do not operate. I can use the trim wheel with the mouse, but extremely large responses and impossible to use in landing.
If you can help I would be very grateful.
Robert
Absolutley Fantastic I plan to get this TH quadrant real soon along with a Logitech joystick for now and later some rudder pedals
Great tutorial Mark guess what I'm doing tomorrow. It will further enhance the Twin Otter for sure.
Superb, Mark, - thank you so much, and as always, your time is greatly appreciated. - 🍻
Great video and thank you for the link to my original post!
Thank you very much Mark for this and all of your other outstanding videos. Have a great day!
This could be a great solution to the notorious issue with warbirds such as the Spit or the P51D in DCS where it is impossible to fine tune trim unless you have an analog trim wheel!...a DCS review would be much appreciated. thanks
I'm not a real pilot but I take MSFS serious when I fly in it. I just bought the Turtle Beach setup and I really enjoy it I also got the thrusmaster rudder system. I really like the trim wheel on this setup it seems very true to life except when I am flying and every time I use my trim for the first time in a flight my plane always jerks up or down pretty hard. I do like that fact that this system has a tunning app.
Great video!! I hate that we have to go through all this. The better option would be for Microsoft to simply add a button multiplier option in game so we dont have to jump through hoops just to get a 250 dollar throttle quadrant to work.
We had that in FSX and FS9!
This is amazing! Thank you for the post!
Thanks Mark. This is definitely a problem that needed this solution. 👍
Hi Mark, great video on the Authentikit. However, could I ask a favor? Would you please create another video based on the latest version on the Authentikit, as the latest version does not have a Button Multiplier selection?
What an interesting ,clear and concise review Mark ..well done!
And well done to Authentikit for a great app 👍.
Ps. Can't make up my mind if your grumpy or not ..in your thumbnail 😄😂
I quickly add that i love your sense of humour! .
That’s my sensitive look! 😂🤣😂
@@SimHangerFS 😬😬 ok ok! ...😂😂
Thank You!!! I have been looking for this solution since its release!
Great video - very clear and thank you for posting!
Great review and very informative as always 👍🏽
NOTE: Only noticed this after the video ...on the Axis config, if you turn up the sensitivity to 860 or more it will reverse the axis. This can be fixed by lowering the sensitivity setting or checking the reverse axis box in the vjoy config.
Noted, thanks!
Thank you for the video, Mark! As always, very clear, very thorough, and very helpful. I know it is important to you that your videos are clear, thorough, and helpful, and you've done a masterful job. Since you do care about the details and the gotchas, you may be interested in some things I discovered while making a video tutorial on how to multiply the button presses using some other freeware apps prior to this Authentikit Tuning App coming out. Fortunately, I don't even need to try to link my tutorial because it is obsolete now with this much better solution. At any rate, you may be interested to know:
1) All the digital trim wheels I looked at limit the number of button presses per second (and the minimum pulse width) in order to try to avoid overwhelming the sims. What this means is that spinning the trim wheel quickly (or not even all that quickly, really) you not only stand a chance of overwhelming the sim and getting less movement of the virtual trim wheel but you also reach the speed limit of the trim wheel's button presses, so you aren't really going any faster anyway. Of course, your advice to move the wheel slowly addresses both of these concerns.
2) When using a button press multiplier or holding a button or key that repeats, MSFS 2020 limits the maximum repeat rate in VR to something like half of what is it is 2D. So, you may see less movement of the virtual trim wheel in VR than you do in 2D, if you have exceeded the VR repeat limit. This can be very confusing, so I wanted to be sure to mention it here. If people run into trouble with this, they can make different tuning app profiles for VR and 2D.
3) An analog axis is the best way to get a 1:1 mapping of the movement of your physical trim wheel and the trim wheel in the sim, especially with the settings available in the tuning app, but there are some things to be aware of. First of all, as mentioned in #1 above, the wheel itself will likely limit the button presses per second, so moving the wheel faster will not result in the analog axis going faster once you are over a certain speed. Secondly, an analog axis used for trim means that the trim wheel in the sim is not just moved "up" or "down" as you move your physical trim wheel but that it also is set to an exact position. If you enable autopilot and it adjusts the trim to some other setting, the analog axis doesn't know about this change (although that would be a fantastic addition to the sim). So, once the autopilot is turned off, your trim in the sim may be set to, say, 3 degrees nose down, but your analog axis is still set to what it was before you enable autopilot, say 3 degrees nose up. The trim will stay where the AP set it until you go to adjust the trim with your wheel again. As soon as you touch the wheel, moving it ever so slightly, the analog axis setting takes over and you can see an instantaneous large jump in your trim setting (from what the AP had set it to last to what you had it set before engaging the AP). In a real plane, the trim wheel moves with the autopilot, so this is not a problem. For us, unless we have a motorized trim wheel, there's nothing we can really do about it other than be aware of it.
I’m having this very problem with my bravo; the trim wheel hardly moves the trim when I turn it. I think this will help so thanks for the tip!
Thanks again for another quality video!! 😁😁👍👍
Thanks. Great video and now the trim works and I can fly properly.
How timely! I spent all yesterday afternoon trying to get this very issue resolved with vjoy and Joystick Gremlin without a satisfactory result in my preferred aircraft (the DA62). The axis profile works mostly well, but there is a strange issue where nose down from TO trim is smooth, but nose up from TO is way too sensitive. Turns out that my default sensitivity for the vjoy axis was 85% - no idea where that setting came from, I hadn't set it before! The issue with autopilot trim versus vjoy axis remains, of course.
Thanks for that, same happened to me.
I've been at this problem for 3 hours tonight with my new Bravo..thought it was all about the Authentikit....and then I saw this 🙂 Thanks Michael. 👍👍👍 85% sensitivity as default!
Fantastic tutorial thank you Mark! I have one issue with the trim up where it jumps from around the neutral trim position to max trim up. Trim down works perfectly. Any idea what might be wrong?
I'd love to hear answers to the question, "Why didn't Honeycomb implement the trim wheel as an axis in the first place?" It seems such an incredibly obvious choice that I'm at a total loss to explain what method their might have been to their madness. Is there some advantage to Honeycomb's design that isn't obvious to me?
It’s a good question and I can’t answer that 🥺
Most likely a question of cost. Probably cheaper to implement button presses because it requires less electronics. An axis would require a potentiometer or hall effect sesnor.
The answer is that having it be an axis interferes with autopilot functionality because the sim can't change what the physical axis is set to so the settings on the hardware and in-simulator end up diverging. Of course that could be fixed with "force feedback" where the sim could set the trim on the physical device as needed.
That said, if you don't care about an autopilot having it present as an axis would be clearly the superior option and even virtually mapping it to an axis has some significant benefits. In addition to that if the software had a way to figure out the state of the trim axis in the simulator when autopilot was active, it also could just make the vjoy axis follow the autopilot easily.
Authentikit works well with the logitech / Saittek throttle Quadrant and take one of the buttons for trim :)
Mark, I finally got Authentikit/vJoy working on my Bravo using the Bravo preset - i.e., the axis, not the button-press method. (My initial problem was my fault because I forgot the configuration of the vJoy controller in the sim.) But strangely, now that it is working, I have to set the sensitivity on about 5 or 6, even a setting of 10 will result in the trim going up or down by 10% or more with even a tiny nudge on the trim wheel. I note that you are mentioning sensitivity settings of 500 or even 900, which seem astronomical to me. Have you any idea why my experience is so different?
The program has been updated twice since my video. That may be the cause.
Thank you very much for this Mark. As usual, clear and precise instructions. And, of course, a very big thank you to @colmanian and @authentikit for their work, it is very much appreciated.
Thank you for the video but that's just too much for me to do I just wish Microsoft would come up with an axis for the bravo trim
I'll see that and raise you. They should also do it for the mouse wheel to correct the problems created by putting XBOX priorities in our PC sim !
The newest version of AuthentiKit does not have "Start All", "Stop All", "Start", and "Delete" buttons. I have followed this tutorial to the letter, but Bravo trim wheel is dead. Not sure what I am doing wrong. Thinking that I am not doing "Start All" in the app because there is not that button. My profile, "Elevator Trim Axis" is created (tried both from the Preset and from scratch) and saved. Then loaded from the "File" menu. No way to "Start" it. Then open MSFS and decouple trim wheel from Bravo and set up the vJoy as you did. Any ideas about the current status of this app? Your opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for all the videos you create...much appreciated!!
Thank you very much for this tutorial!
Have you made a video on Sensitivity (in MSFS), for Rudder pedals? I've looked trough your catalogue and only see on for the Yoke.
Great news. MSFS 2020 is now a preset when you download the latest version.
Get sensitive with your Honeycomb Trim Wheel! 😂
Thanks Mark. Trim wheel is perfect in xplane, not sure why it's so bad in MSFS given the sim is best used as a VFR aid.
Awesome, thanks Mark 👍
Super interesting Mark, thanks making a guide! Curious as if we need to do both profiles? What's the difference between the first one the one with button multiplier? Thanks!
Just two different options. Both not needed. I would just do the axis one only.
What Mark said :) The reason we added in the button option was just for the Sptifire Rudder Trim, since unlike the elevator trim MSFS only allows button input for rudder trim, rather than an axis. I'd use axis if the sim supports it for a given control as it's a much more accurate and responsive experience.
@@colmanian cool, thank you for clarifying and thanks Mark too!
Too bad the " Authentikit" program could not also adjust the pulse rate for the mouse wheel. This has become an issue in MSFS ever since they incorporated the xbox into our PC simulator !
Is it possibel to use it for Thrustmaster LCM propedals for racing, and use it for FS2020 ?, waiting for answer Mark, very useabel videos from you Mark, always checking your videos , greetings from Sweden !
Hello, I don’t know to be honest. Not tried that.
Thanks. Really helpful.
Thank you SimHanger. Another very useful video. I have a request, saw your video but I am still unable to figure out how to have working lights on the Honeycomb throttle. Would you mind doing one only for this. Thanks and sorry for the request. Ideally for both MSFS and XPlane
Very helpful, thanks 👍
Thanks for all your videos keep it up. Was wondering if you have to apply all these settings for every type of plane in my list. single-double- jets etc. Thanks
Hi, I’ve watched several of your videos and found them very informative. I recently got a Honeycomb Bravo and installed the Authentikit Tuning App and vJoy driver, following your video, and had it working for my trim wheel. However I then noticed that MSFS2020 no longer recognized my USB Xbox controller. I run the desktop version of MSFS and use the controller to move the drone camera around. The culprit seems to be the vJoy driver. I finally removed the Tuning App and vJoy driver to restore the Xbox controller function. Do you know if there’s any work around for this issue? Thanks!
@@frankpope9273 I haven’t experienced this issue so not sure what the conflict is. I am not currently using vjoy at the moment.
Lmao @1:35... Me every time I fly.........
🤣
Hello. Could you tell me how was your experience with the trim wheel in the honeycomb throttle? I would really appreciate if you could give me your opinion
Thank you
Damn, I was gonna buy the Bravo, but this killed the whole thing for me, the trimwheel was honestly the thing i wanted the most
Hi Mark and greetings from Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA. Q: Have you, or anyone you know of, tried this application on X-Plane 12? Purchased the Honeycomb A&B a few weeks ago, and as a full scale pilot…noticed the the issue with the Bravo trim wheel does not reflect real world trim action. Would appreciate your thoughts. Best regards, Randy
Apparently, someon has already setup a preset for the Honeycomb Bravo (MSFS) for the latest Authentikit download
On the latest update the dev has now incorporated my config.
Thanks a lot for this video😊😊😊
Interesting, but the newest version does not provide Mapping Type: Button Multiplier. Is that part of this tutorial necessary? Edit: It is now "Remap Button to Virtual Button"
How very helpfull - thank you.
Hi, under Settings, you can start the app during Windows start up. Do you also “Start all mappings on App Start”?
Yes, no problem.
Hi Mark, thanks so much for the inspiration. Do the third party tools always have to run in the backround when I changed the sensivity for my bravo trim wheel and pay MSFS?
The trim wheel app needs to run in the background.
Baed on download information I assume it is not Mac compatible? THank you for this incredible information!
Axis in MSFS always tries to recenter, not keeping position ... vJoy shows the axis position correctly. No other mappings in MSFS for buttons of trim wheel (Honeycomb Bravo).
Any ideas?
My bad, setting in the "assistent options" was the culprit.
Hi Mark
Can you do a setup video on the Thrustmaster Boeing yoke ?
I am sorry but this website is confusing. They do not tell me how to open the tool, just how to install it. Where does it sit? There is no desktop icon, nor does the app search find it.
Hi Mark, brilliant! Got it to work as advertised. I tried it out on my Kodiak. In addition to setting the sensitivity in the App to 210, I noticed that setting the Extremity parameter on the L-Axis X's "sensitivity" setting to 30% gave me extra control. I now can control the elevator trim to exact percentage-points with minor wheel input. Before it would jump from 0 to 1, to 3%, instead of 0,1,2,3 etc. I also had to "reverse" the Axis setting.
@IanColman: I did need to tweak the scaling of the app after install, as the font and buttons on the config screen were off. (R-click/Properties/Compatibility/Change High DPI settings/Override, performed by ).
Lastly, I wonder what else we can now tweak to perfection?
Thanks! Pipo.
Thanks Pipo, It's great to hear that you've got it working. Would you mind explaining a bit more about the 'Extremity parameter'? is it a vJoy setting that I haven't come across? I'm very interested in what we can do to make it work better for people, so the feedback is greatly appreciated. Cheers, Ian
@@colmanian Hi, so Vjoy gets added to msfs as a device, each device gets a mapping interface and a Sensitivity setting. Within the Sensitivity menu there are Axis by Axis settings for things like deadzone, or for how user input is translated i.e. linear for a throttle and slow then faster for a rudder, by preference of course. In there is also a parameter for Extremity, this sets how fast user input reaches the outer limits of the Axis. By limiting this range the elevation trim reacts in smaller increments, thus I see the percentage points of that trim go up one point at a time instead of occasional 2 point jumps.
@@georgesiebes oh I'm with you - the setting in msfs. That's helpful thanks :)
This worked for me with the latest version as of 15 Feb 22, the sensitivity was at -85% on the + side for some reason, set them both to -50%, worked well on the Cessna 150, much easier to dial in descent rates.
Hi, I'm on a new computer so I had to re-install this. Latest versions are .Net 7.x, Vjoy 2.1.9.1, Tuning app 1.2.2. The tuning app now has a HoneyComb Bravo preset for MSFS, so no need to find buttons 22,23. Rest still works the same.
Does this not then introduce the problem that autopilot will change trim to maintain altitude but when you come off autopilot on approach and then touch the trim, you get an axis input spike? That was the problem with the Saikek trim wheel which although it has an encoder inside, it implements trim as an axis and it's a PITA. I modified my Saitek trim wheel to send encoder outputs to address this and achieve the same effect of sensitivity by managing aircraft profiles in spad.next and sending multiple trim simconnect commands per encoder input.
I was conscious of this potential issue and did test it out. Seemed to operate within acceptable parameters.
@@SimHangerFS As long as it works for you, that's all that matters. The behaviour really annoyed me with the Logitech before modification. :)
@@djtaylorutube Is that a physical modification to the trim wheel or is it just changing something in Spadnext?
Does this fix work for X-plane 12? Also any idea why "button multiplier" isn't listed as a mapping type option?
Hi, thank you very much for the video! But which of the 6 files for win 10 from the link do i need to download? Thanks.