A Question for Christians: On Hell
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- A little off-brand, but a genuine question I have been wondering the answer to for a while.
Introduction 0:00
On Hell 1:17
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Victorian Fantasy - Joshua Kyan Aalampour
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Raindrops - Joshua Kyan Aalampour
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Hey Joshua. I'm a Christian psychologist. In Christianity, every sin is worth the same: Death and hell. in our religion, hell is a self inflicted pain. It's an existence without God, and only believing Jesus died for every person's sins, and it is weird. The question is amazing. I'll be pondering on this myself for a while. Also, I'm a big fan of your music, good luck in all of your work!
Hmm, I'm kind of interested to learn more about your view on the matter, I've talked to many Christians, and many had different answers (mainly the difference was between Catholics and Evangelists / Protestants). I'm an atheist myself, so I personally don't believe neither in God nor hell, but I'd like to hear a bit about your view on the topic, for simple curiosity, and with all my respect.
Wow I didnt expect that, but I love it!
HEY JOSHUA ive been subbed for a while and want to say- love your music, its absolutely amazing!
im a Christian myself, and although im not catholic (protestant) i would like to pitch in what i think on this
(sidenote, i do recommend christian apologetics channels on youtube that deal with tough questions like this all the time and are able to respond in a way more articulated manner than i think i'd be able to- my suggestions would be Cross Examined (Frank Turek), Melissa Dougherty, Red Pen Logic and Mike Winger)
my belief is that hell was originally made for satan and his demons- as they first rebelled against God and did evil
but because of humanity's corruption since the fall- we also do evil by our free choice
and because God is Just and Righteous and Holy, He cant just let evil remain (which is why Christ came to save us that we may be redeemed)
but there are those who dont go to Christ and continue in their sin
many people say theyre a good person- but Jesus says in mark 10:18 that only GOD is good
i find this to make sense because in God's eyes- He sees all our sins and mistakes; ones that we excuse as okay as well
hell is a punishment for our sins that are crimes against God
we distort God's good creation (take for example the mistreatment of animals; whether it be in farms or even pets and another example would be lust- looking at another person made in God's image and objectifying them for self pleasure)
i think that humans dont realise the depth and true severity of our sin
jaywalking may seem like a small thing, but it can be dangerous and cause serious injuries- and i think thats what sin does; it hurts US and people AROUND us
additionally, sinning against God is like this:
you're a student and you insult your teacher- your teacher would punish you for disrespect, probably detention
lets say now that youre a student and you insult your principal- the punishment would be more severe
youre a person who insults someone of higher authority and status- the punishment is bigger
the difference with God is that it isnt just insulting, its other actions and deeds- the thoughts in a person's mind and their hearts (like how Jesus points out how hating is commiting murder in the heart and lusting is adultery in the heart)
and not only is God higher in status and authority but in ESSENCE- He is the SUPREME being afterall
He is not only the SUPEREME being but also the CREATOR of the universe, He is outside of time and space and is LORD over creation
He DESERVES respect BECAUSE of His position, ofc there are other reasons why He deserves respect (such as Him giving the whole world common grace- the rain falls on the righteous and wicked and as well as salvation provided to us through Christ the Lord)
now it may come up as a question like this: "does doing 1 wrong thing deserve hell?"
but the truth is that just as the bible says- everyone has fallen short of the glory of God and has sinned
we sin and we CONTINUE to sin
someone who isnt saved by Christ will love their sin and continue in it as they dont REALISE a lot of the time the SERIOUSNESS of it
we've become insensitive of the seriousness of our sin
Christ's sacrifice on the CROSS shows how serious our sin is- that God the Father would send HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON TO DIE ON OUR BEHALF, that GOD THE SON WOULD COME IN HUMAN FORM TO DIE FOR US
and its not that He came as a fully grown man and then just died for us, rose again and thats it- no, but He had a birth, a childhood, He was a teenager and grew up to be an adult
He was tempted in every way and DIDNT sin once- He lived the perfect life in God's eyes (not perfect in human's eyes- like being rich etc as He was poor, but perfect in God's eyes as He didnt sin and kept the law from the old testament) and then He laid down His life for us to take away our sins and rose on the 3rd day that whoever should believe in Him should not perish but have eternal life
Christ's sacrifice shows us how horrible, deep and severe our sins are and how amazing, deep and awesome God's love for us is
additionally people who continue in sin and dont choose Christ choose to be separate from God
hell is separation from God
heaven is intimate fellowship with God
if someone chose to not be with God- as God gives us free will
hell is eternal separation from God- as thhey chose, but those who dont accept Christ's payment of their sins are therefore still in their sins and their sins need to be addressed and just as any person who did a crime is addressed with punishment, so is our sins
and someone who wants to continue in sin and not repent of them has no desire to be with God- and that same person will continue in their sin even in hell because that is their desire- to continue sinning because they love their sin- its like an addiction; if i love candy so much i will jsut continue to eat it but then i will harm my own health and face the consequences of my bad decision to keep overeating candy
but Christ offers us eternal union with God in heaven- free from sin, death and pain
i think i might've covered it all, or at least most of it
this is my understanding and belief of what hell is, i hope this might help (sorry for the incredibly long comment, but this topic isnt light!)
God bless you joshua! continue making amazing music!
My dad, who has learned theology said roughly the same.
Hey Joshua, I'm Catholic and I'm so glad you answered God's calling. I like your math brain in this question :) Here comes a bit longer paragraph
Hell by definition is separation from God. CCC #1033 - CCC #1037, (CCC is the Catechism of the Catholic Church) speaks of hell: "This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell.""
"The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs."
So we condemn ourselves to hell:
"God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end".
Now your argument about the unfair weight of the punishment compared to the weight of the sin comes into question. The truth would be that for a sin like jaywalking, it would be unjust to deserve the whole wrath of hell.
God is perfectly just. He understands it better than we do. This is why there are venial sins and mortal sins. Minor sins do not lead to eternal hell, they are there like obstacles that, if they are not removed, soon lead to some major and deadly sins (for example, whenever you jaywalk, you realize more and more that you don't have to obey the law, your conscience becomes duller and you no longer feel that it is so bad to lets say steal a few dollars from a parent's wallet...).
CCC #1854 - CCC #1864 deals with these topics of the gravity of sin.
In addition, I would like to mention purgatory: Since God is perfectly just, and "nothing impure will enter heaven" (Revelation 21, 27), we with minor sins on our souls cannot enter heaven. Even when we are confessed, the consequences of sin remain on us, which are called temporal punishment for sins. An example of this would be the following: If you are addicted to pornography, after confession your sin is forgiven, but you are still addicted to pornography. You are not free from that, and besides, your view of women is tainted, etc... The temporal punishment can be solved on earth (in this example, by actively breaking the will to watch such contents and showing penance for all the damage that remained to you from the consumption of these content)
If the temporal punishments for sins are not satisfied on earth, and we are confessed at the moment of death, the God of mercy has given us the opportunity to satisfy these punishments in purgatory, and not to go to eternal hell.
Purgatory is still separation from God and that is why many mystics witness visions of hellish torments in purgatory. But the difference is that in purgatory there is hope that one day we will see the face of God.
According to the definition of hell, we see that purgatory is also a part of hell (separation from God), but that part that is not eternal. Because hell is not a place but a state of the soul. (CCC #1030 - CCC #1032 speaks of purgatory).
The conclusion of this is that there is still a difference in sins and a difference in punishments.
Also even in hell (eternal) there is a hierarchy and severity of punishment (even though it is eternal). Kind of like Dante's Inferno.
Sorry im a little confused, according to the argument presented in the video for no sin the punishment of hell would be just. So then everyone would go to purgatory and not hell and therefore no damnation would be eternal as long as you satisfy your sins?
@@laiton_ but many people go to hell since God does not force anyone into relationship with him. God gives us mercy by forgivness and many oportunities but in the end He still respects our will to continue living in sin (separation from God) and therefore going to hell. That's why the argument in the video is flawed. Mystics saw great number of people going to hell and very few going to heaven. Again God is the most just so I cannot say if someone is in hell or heaven but on day of judgment He sure does judge justly.
You are a true artist! I love listening to your music, and am happy to see that you are an inquiring brother in Christ!
Here is what I think on this situation!
He is the Creator, and we are the *created*. He is fully good, and we are not. We can not technically measure a sin level since we are imperfect, so how would we be able to accurately determine what would be "condemning"? But He also says that we "all fall short" so we are all condemned but He is the one who saves us.
Also, He says to have "faith like a child" so to a certain point we will never be able to understand His goodness, glory, power, and justice, until we are in heaven.
So I believe that we need to have faith ( alongside works, understanding, wisdom, and decernment ) in Him and admit that we will never be fully knowing.
Hey dude, I was honestly struggling with many of the same questions and would just like to thank you for making this video. I have found answers in the comments that I feel make sense and put my mind to rest, I hope you find the same.
Hello Joshua,
I really enjoy your music.
On this question I want to let you know upfront I am approaching it as a Protestant not catholic so it might be a bit different. The issue I believe you are having is the concept of infinity. The sin itself may seem like a finite offense but that’s only from our finite perspective. God is absolutely just and holy and infinite. The offense of sin is rejecting Gods established order and separating ourselves from him. By rejecting God we separate ourselves and the place without God is hell. Obviously this is a very basic answer and I do not count myself qualified to answer it more deeply. Some Protestant pastor and preachers who have helped me are RC Sproul and Tim Keller I’d look up a few of their sermons on this topic even if you are Catholic they are very helpful. I wish you the best in your Theological journey and may God guide you and keep you ❤
Hey Joshua, As a Christian. I ask a lot of questions myself so I'm happy to see this.
Based off what I've learned I have the idea that there are punishments in hell for each sin. Like different levels.
Yes it seems bad that you receive this punishment for eternity but if you were to go to heaven, you would be there for an eternity as well.
I would recommend watching a channel called Bible Project, they may not have all the answers however they have amazing summarys and insights of the Bible that may deem useful.
I wish you luck on this path😁
( Sorry for the formal talk, I read a lot of books)
Glad you're open to discussion, the consensus I've so far received from being a Christian is that, hell can be eternal but it could also be punishment before your soul is erased, as you mentioned God is fair and just, and with the sacrifice of Jesus we are offered redemption, again i am no certified person from the church so i could always be wrong, such is the human condition, but the whole point of us avoiding sin isn't to avoid hell, great sinners became great saints, the point is to purify the soul and heart and show God we love him and we want to be faithful to him, best of luck on your journey towards Christ
Those that are in Hell do not wish to leave.
Hello Joshua.. I am a Christian. I became one when i was around 23/24 after reading the Bible.. Before reading the Bible i had been raised in a catholic family.. I discovered that the catholic religion was not Christian after i read the Bible and saw what the actual Gospel message was.. This is just to let you know where i am coming from..
You view of Hell is a human based one proportionality.. that's where the human being thinks that justice = the punishment being in proportion to the crime.. But God deals in absolutes.. God is perfect.. His eternal existence is also perfect and nothing that is imperfect can enter into His perfect eternal existence.. Once an imperfect being enters His perfect eternal existence then this eternal existence will lose it's perfection.. If i put a tea spoon of dirt into a barrel of purified water then the water is no longer pure.. So Gods Pass mark for entering eternity is 100% and if someone scores 99.99 % then they are a failure and cannot enter..
Strange thing with people who are offended by the Eternal Lake of Fire and people going to be cast into it at the last judgement.. They seldom are offended by people being granted access into Gods perfect eternal existence.. If the punishment of the Lake of fire for a certain number of sins why isn't entry into Gods perfect eternal existence also unjust for a limited number of good things a person has done?
Basic Christianity 101 is the Gospel message that a person enters into eternal life with God not by how much good deeds they have done,, not by how worthy they are,, But by believing Jesus ( His teachings) and trusting that the Atonement Jesus secured by His death on the cross pays the penalty due upon us all for our imperfections / transgressions against what is good.. Ones eternal destination has nothing to do on how worthy or how unworthy they are.. It depends on them being justly forgiven for all their imperfections,, This forgiveness is a gift from the LORD Jesus and must be accepted as a gift so that no human being can boast that they made it into Gods perfect existence by their own goodness..
Great answer ❣️
This a really great explanation! I think a simple verse that summed it up for me when I was wondering this was Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.“ At the end of the day no matter what wrong we’ve done, we’ve sinned (which literally mean “to miss the mark” in Hebrew) and because of that we’ve broken our relationship with God. The gift of God is that He sent Jesus to pay that death penalty for us (John 3:16) and restore our relationship! And that’s the awesome thing about the Gospel, that it’s not about what we’ve done right or wrong but about whose we are!
I agree most people think God deals in équations and uses human reasoning. But no far from that, the way you deal with God is by believing in what he says = faith. From there the rest unravels. God can't be conrnered with theological musings.
Not Christian, but I have to admit; seeing the title had my jaw drop for a second. Just had to figure out what our boy curious Joshua was talking about 😭
Edit: I think it has to do with “repenting for sins”? You are born a sinner and must spend your whole life serving under the Holy Spirit to repent for those sins + sins to come? Using that logic you could reduce a sentence in hell depending on how well you made up for everything wrong you did. I don’t think people who follow this expect to be perfect, but to rather be balanced. Idk I’m going based on family knowledge, someone else may be able to clarify this further.
I’m not Catholic but I know some denominations including my own view it as you were born with the tendency to sin, but if you accept that Jesus was the Son of God and died for your sin, then you’re forgiven. One doesn’t have to serve God in order to be forgiven, one serves because they /have been/ forgiven
The problem with your argument is that it relies on arbitrary moral assumptions. As David Hume showed, morality in the atheistic worldview is, at its core, arbitrary. The problem arises from the fact that we cannot derive ought, or value judgments, based on facts about the world. For example, one could say, "Murder causes suffering. Therefore, murder is wrong." This argument relies on the obvious assumption that causing suffering is wrong. If causing suffering was not wrong, the argument would not make any sense. However, the problem with this is that you have to prove that causing suffering is wrong. Again, you cannot just give me a fact about the world to come to that conclusion. As we did before, you would need both a fact statement and a value statement to prove the "wrongness" of causing suffering. This is the problem with making objective moral judgments in the atheist worldview. You continue asking an atheist "Why do you believe this ethical judgment" and they just end at some premises that they accept as "just so". Either that, or they make an appeal to empathy even though that relies on the assumption of empathy having objective truths written in it. Then, you have to wonder who gave us these objective truths. Who wrote this objectively true moral assumption like, "causing suffering is wrong" into our brain? Evolution doesn't help the problem. It relies on the assumption that evolution has moral authority over the world. The only logical precondition for this assumption that we could appeal to empathy is something that does have moral authority over the world. The logical precondition for an appeal to empathy is, therefore, God. This is because it requires a mind that has ultimate moral authority over the world. That is one of the attributes of God. What you are doing here is making moral assumptions. You assume Jaywalking to have a "crime severity" of 1, but murder a "crime severity" of 10 (I don't know if you actually think it's 10, but I am just trying to demonstrate). The problem is that this relies on arbitrary assumptions that you have come up with, so my counter-argument is this:
1. Objective moral judgments require the belief that you have moral authority over the world.
2. The answer to why we have objective moral authority over the world logically necessitates an infinitely moral being.
3. In the atheist worldview, there is no answer to the question of why we have some moral authority over the world. It is an arbitrary assumption.
Premise: Therefore, in the atheist worldview, morality is subjective.
Let's put this conclusion into a counter-argument.
1. You are making moral judgments about God's ethics and using them to come to an objective conclusion.
2. You cannot derive objective truths from subjective experiences
3. Morality, in your worldview, is a subjective experience
Therefore, you are using a subjective experience to come to an objective conclusion
Counter-argument: 1st counter-argument: "It is obvious that causing suffering is wrong". This is an appeal to what is obvious. It is basically another form of the personal incredulity fallacy. We cannot make an appeal to what seems to be, as what seems to be should still have a logical argument backing it up. If there is no logical argument backing it up, it is an arbitrary assumption you simply accept because it seems to be. It's another form of the personal incredulity fallacy because it finds the argument hard to believe, rather than providing a logical argument against the argument. Rather than logically breaking it down, it appeals to what is obvious. In the same way, the personal incredulity fallacy avoids logically deconstructing an argument by making an appeal to what is obvious to him/herself. "It just seems wrong".
2nd counter-argument: I believe it is obvious God exists. Does that mean he exists? Nope. I am appealing to subjective experience to make an objective conclusion.
Counter-argument: "So you believe causing suffering is right?" Nope. This is a strawman and an ad hominem. I believe causing suffering is wrong because it says it in the bible. I believe the Bible has moral authority over the world. I believe that because I believe it came from God, who has all moral authority over the world.
Counter-argument: 1st counter-argument: "Who gave God moral authority over the world?" Nothing. That is the definition of God in the first place. The definition of God, in my view, is someone who has knowledge of all objective logical truths and has knowledge of how to do anything. We believe that God is the embodiment of morality in the first place. To illustrate this better, we could look at the laws of logic. The laws of logic prescribe logic. This is because all objective truths stem from the laws of logic. I shall define logic as the key to all objective truths. This is not the dictionary definition, but I shall define logic as that for the sake of argument. Logic, the key to all objective truths, is defined as "logical" or "truthful". We could define logic as being "logical" or objectively "truthful" not because some outsider gave it the authority to have objective truths, but because it is the embodiment of truthfulness in and of itself. In the same sense, we define God as objectively "moral" because he is the embodiment of morality in the first place. This makes sense as the actual Greek translation of the word "sin" from the Bible quite literally means "missing the mark". Almost like missing the mark of what is truly moral, or missing the mark of God. Missing the mark of the embodiment of morality in the first place. Logic is logical because that is an attribute of logic. God is moral because that is an attribute of God.
2nd counter-argument: This is a Tu Quoque fallacy and does not answer the counter-argument I raised above, which defines atheistic morality as subjective and arbitrary.
Part one: Hey Joshua! I wanted to thank you very much for the beautiful music you create. I was very happy to hear that you were looking for the Lord, one of my favorite artists turned out to be a brother in Christ 💗 My understanding of hell is this: hell is not the place most Christians imagine. Because how cruel would our God be if he allowed his children to suffer forever? After all, God is love! The Bible uses the phrase 'that eternal fire will consume them'. The exact same term is used for the fire that consumed Sodom and Gomorrah (Jude 1:7). We know that now there is no fire anywhere in the world that burns constantly and consumes Sodom and Gomorrah. Rather, this term means that this fire burned everything completely and has eternal effects (nothing remains of these cities). It will be the same with people who do not want to choose God's salvation and do not want to live forever. They do not want to live in the Kingdom of God and wash themselves from sin, so they will simply perish and not rise again (like Sodom and Gomorrah). If I haven't explained something clearly or you just want to talk, feel free to write to me!! God bless you 💗
Not an expert, but I'll attempt to explain how I see it:
If we look at the descriptions of Hell as metaphorical, we can more easily see what it truly is: a place of eternal separation from God.
You hypothesize that the punishment doesn't fit the crime, and that Hell is "infinitely unjust." However, if a tenant doesn't follow the rules set by a landlord and is sent away, is this unjust? If a potential resident is disqualified because of mishaps and a bad history, is this not because of their own past actions?
God has set the rules for entry - the main one being simply to believe in Him and His sons sacrifice. In doing so, he provides a way to achieve salvation instead of damnation.
While it may seem unfair, everyone has a choice, and you can save yourself from the consequences of your sins by believing and repenting.
Dear Joshua, as a Catholic fan of your work, I’m super excited to hear about your first steps towards entry into our Holy Mother the Church. I’ve already seen other comments give more in depth and doctrinally legitimate answers regarding hell so I’d just like to offer this bottom line (I won’t get into purgatory right now because that’s about another couple paragraphs):
Hell is a choice, one that people make in their last moments of life. The beautiful and scandalous mystery of God’s mercy is that we are unable to judge or know for certain who if anyone has gone to hell. Our understanding is that hell is reserved for those unrepentant of mortal sin. It is not so much the nature of the “crime” that results in damnation, but the attitude of the individual. If the sinner is unrepentant of mortal sin, they are choosing to separate themselves from God, and hell is an honoring of that choice to be separated from Him. While Catholicism has the sacrament of Reconciliation, we also believe that if someone dies with true contrition and intention for reconciliation before they are able to receive the sacrament, that they are about as likely to receive purgatory and therefore salvation as someone just absolved. So again, the Catholic view of hell is not so clear cut as “crime -> prescribed punishment”, but takes into account the heart of the individual and what they want their relationship with God to be, which is truly emblematic of God’s mercy.
I’m overjoyed to hear about your interest in Catholicism, and I hope along with your beautiful music, you continue to share your journey into the Church. God bless, brother.
This is such a great question! the answer to this question is found straight from the bible!
for some context, throughout history the bible’s translations have been misconstrued to appeal to religious leaders and political influences.
The idea of eternal torment is repugnant to God. (Jeremiah 32:35) Such an idea is contrary to the Bible’s teaching that “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) He wants us to worship him out of love, not fear of eternal torment.-Matthew 22:36-38.
The original words translated as “hell” in some older Bible translations (Hebrew, “Sheol”; Greek, “Hades”) basically refer to “the Grave,” that is, the common grave of mankind. The Bible shows that people in “the Grave” are in a state of nonexistence.
God has set death, not torment in a fiery hell, as the penalty for sin. God told the first man, Adam, that the penalty for breaking God’s law would be death. (Genesis 2:17) He said nothing about eternal torment in hell. Later, after Adam sinned, God told him what his punishment would be: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) He would pass out of existence. If God were actually sending Adam to a fiery hell, He surely would have mentioned it. God has not changed the punishment for defying his laws. Long after Adam sinned, God inspired a Bible writer to say: “The wages sin pays is death.” (Romans 6:23) No further penalty is justified, because “the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”-Romans 6:7.
i hope that this can shed some light on your question! accurate knowledge and wisdom from the bible can help you understand more concepts like this! if you have more questions like this please feel free to visit JW. org!
I’ve seen some great clips of Cliffe Knechtle talk about this topic on “Give Me an Answer” ministry. I’m going to paraphrase what he said, but from what I got is that God gives us free will whether or not we want to spend eternity with Him. Hell is eternal separation from God. We weren’t created to be puppets. He loves enough that He gives us freedom to decide which path we want to take, one of eternal life with Him or eternal separation. He wants to have a relationship with us, but He lets us make that decision ourselves. Hopefully I said things correctly. That is how I interpreted it.
Hey Joshua!
I appreciate your question. Perhaps the most fundamental error in nominal Christianity is the assumption that the afterlife is only infinite Heaven, or infinite Hell.
Tell me, where in nature do you see a fire burn infinitely? Didn’t it only burn until the fuel (sin) is gone?
The Jewish word that is translated “eternal” just means “until completed”. It’s qualitative not quantitative.
It’s says in the Scriptures, “As in Adam ALL man perished, so in Jesus Christ, ALL with be made alive.”
They also declare that , “it’s the good will of God that all men should be saved and none perish.”
One of the best days of my life was when I found out that Jesus Christ saved everybody. No exceptions.
Isn’t the Resurrection Power of the Lord Jesus Christ more infinite than the sins of men? How can anyone argue that Devil (the created thing) can win any souls to destruction in a battle with his creator? Can you imagine little league baseball kids being able to score even a single point against the Major league guys?
How can anyone assume that God doesn’t care to win all the souls when He plainly states otherwise?
Didn’t it say, that Jesus preached to the souls lost in the Flood, while He was in the grave?
That doesn’t mean there isn’t perfect consequences to match the crimes, but the ratio is exactly 1:1. Not always according to man’s judgment, because the Lord sees the heart. Consider the man who was stoned for picking up sticks in the Sabbath. The Lord made that judgment. He saw that man’s contemptuous heart.
Now, that doesn’t mean that man is burning in Hell still. That punishment matched the crime, and in the next realm he’ll serve with a lot more respect.
This is only one of the realms the Lord uses to judge and correct and reconcile mankind to Himself.
Josh, your argument is sound and fair.
Doesn’t it say in Revelations that Death and Hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, to be no more?
Truly, the Good News of the Gospel is that every man will be saved in his order. Some are dishonourable vessels in this lifetime, serving to chasten the vessels of honour. In the next lifetime, they’ll be punished, corrected and reconciled until “every knee bows and every tongue confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord!”
Doesn’t it say that “then every man will receive praise of God?”
The worst accusation a man can bring against God, is that He created bodies, souls, and spirits in His Own Image, with the perfect foreknowledge of their inevitable damnation and torment. It’s barbaric.
No, He is good and He has the perfect victory over all evil. Every tear will be wiped away.
The first fruits are those that that believe in this lifetime, appointed for the Throne in the next. The remainder of the harvest will still be brought in. They will serve with humility, respect and joy after they are corrected, healed, and disciplined.
The first will be last and the last will be made first. Nobody is being lit on fire infinitely. That’s a stupid wicked doctrine.
I come from a bit of a different (more Eastern perspective). God loves us all infinitely, but those who choose to reject God experience His love as pain and suffering as it is not what they wanted. From what I've learned, Catholics tend to view Hell as the absence of God. However, all good flows from God, so to choose to not be with him is to choose to be cut off from all good.
Have you read the the verse in Matthew where it says that the Pharisees will receive the greater damnation for their hypocrisy? Matthew 23:14. This seemed to me to imply varying levels of hell, and that makes sense in the world around us to. Everyone seems to have different versions of hell. Yet it’s always a place where the fire is constant and the worm does not die. I’ve been struggling to get the concept to and I would love to do a back and forth discussion on this.
I am a Christian (reformed baptist specifically). I can answer this pretty simply. People don’t go to Hell for doing bad things. You go to Hell for hating/not believing in our Lord Jesus Christ. If you live your life however YOU please, a life of pleasure, a life that’s absent of God, a life where you don’t acknowledge God until the end… why should God let you into His home(heaven)? He made a place for us in heaven. As His children, wouldn’t we find it unfair that He let in just anybody? There’s always been two types of people in the world- Heaven bound, and Hell bound. The crime is choosing yourself over your Creator. You can find a lot more answers in the Bible itself, it’s quite to the point. Good on you for seeking knowledge, sir. I hope you find what you’re looking for. God bless 🙂
Hello Joshua. I’m a Christian and I go to an Evangelical Free church. I was very intrigued when I saw the title of this video and I hope I can give some more understanding.
All of us deserve death the eternal punishment of Hell for our sins. But because God loves us he sent His son Jesus to die on a cross (the most cruel form of punishment in that period of time) so we can be saved. We need to repent from our sins by asking God for forgiveness and not falling into that sin again. God also wants to have a relationship with us, we are His children. There is something one of my church’s pastors said that I had never thought about before. He said: “There is a never ending cycle of love between God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit (the Trinity), and God wants to have that relationship with us.” He already loves us infinitely, and we have the choice to love Him like that too. If someone is a “good”person but has no relationship with God, then they can’t go to Heaven after death or when Jesus comes back on Judgment Day because they didn’t accept Jesus (God) as Lord and Savior of their life. There is nothing in the Bible that says there will be a second chance after death. Because of the cross, we are given the chance in this life if we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and King, and if we share the good news of being saved from our sin from with others and try to be like Jesus, who lived a perfect life on earth. Then we will be rewarded with eternal life in Heaven with God.
I hope this helped answer your question. I will be praying for you as you go through this journey ❤
Hi Joshua!
Joshua, this is so interesting! my childhood friend, Protestant since her birth in a Protestant family, introduced me to this spirituality about which I am still discovering things (she plays the transverse flute🙂)
She always answered me:
“if you have a question, ask God” and gave me her opinion: Protestantism is liberal and acts under the signs of God.
I will ask him the question😌
Have you considered integrating the notion of Reincarnation into your theorem? 🤔 I don't know.
Part two: I don't think the Bible anywhere says any sin is greater than others. There is only one and it is unforgivable - the sin against the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31). Delving deeper into what this sin actually is, we come to the conclusion that it is simply a complete rejection of God's offer of salvation (because, for example, the Holy Spirit convinces us about sin, judgment, justice. It is He who acts on our hearts and thanks to His work on our hearts we accept Jesus as our Savior!💗). Therefore, if we reject salvation, we also accept eternal death. All other sins can be forgiven and praise the Lord for that! 💗 The Lord is just and would never want any of His children to suffer. People themselves reject him. I hope I could help at least a little. I love your music, God bless you!!
First off, love your music, playing and listening to it! Second, I posted a comment earlier that has vanished so I'm gonna try a shortened version.
I'm not Catholic, but I have been a Christian my whole life.
Hell isn't a punishment for crimes, it's where we are all on track to go if we don't choose to stand with God. It's a fallen world and we have all sinned (because there is no scale to sins...a sin is a sin. Period.), and as Romans says "the wages of sin is death." But, Jesus came to save us from eternal death. He took upon him the sins of the world and defeated death so he could offer us another choice ...eternal life with him.
So, hell isn't the punishment for murder, or stealing. Hell is the price we would have to pay if we don't choose to accept the gift Jesus gave us. And, if we truly accept his gift, we will try our best to live life according to him and his word. Asking questions, leaning in, and asking for forgiveness when we do sin. He knows the intention of our hearts and offers grace and mercy.
I know there are a lot of questions to ask, and you should search for answers to them in the word, from trusted sources, and from God. But, we aren't meant to carry the burden of being all-knowing. There are some questions that dont have definate answers, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't search for answers. It just means we need to be ok with not finding one. That's where trust comes in. That God is working for the good of all his people.
Feel free to ask any questions😁
Wow, you’ve asked one difficult question. Maybe these resources can help though:
Living waters (A RUclips channel, his videos more so touch on your question, at least in some. For instance, his video, “Atheist tries to stop the gospel, then this happens.” Some of his videos are a little off the rocker (just a warning) but he does have some really good ones)
Ravi Zacharias (He has some question and answer seminar videos on RUclips that are very similar to your question, maybe those would help.)
Spurgeon’s Practical Wisdom, Banner of Truth (this book may help with understanding some parables or other topics in the Bible. It also offers great life advice)
C.S. Lewis (I have not personally looked at his stuff much, but I’ve heard his devotionals are outstanding)
Kent Hovind (He does science vs creation debates, maybe that would interest you)
Billy Joe Daughtery (pastor who evangelized all over the world)
I hope some of these resources help with your question!
David Benjamin (youtubechannel) like you is a great thinker, and his expertise is on the gospel: the belief in Jesus Christ, his finished work on the cross, death burial ressurection alone for salvation.
David Benjamin goes over a lot of what Paul wrote in the New Testament.
Thank you and God Bless You!
PS: Are you born again?
I think you should do an Ortodox Christian baptism.
Hi Joshua, you have a very good question with this. I grew up in the Christian faith, so I hope what I say can help you or anyone else reading this comment.
You are right on one count: hell is awful, and the crime of a human on earth really doesn’t seem to equate to the eternal punishment of hell. The thing is though, according to Matthew 25:41, hell originally was not not intended for people to go there, but was a place of punishment for Satan and his demons. When Adam and Eve sinned in the garden of Eden, their actions separated them from being able to stand in the holiness of God. When any person who has not accepted a personal relationship with God and acknowledged Jesus to have died for their sins and made Him their Lord, that sin acts as a barrier from being able to stand in God’s presence. This ultimately, is why God sent Jesus to save us so that we could repent and be right with Him, for as the Bible says, “God is love.”
How I lol at Hell comes from a variety of teachers. My favorite is Rabbi Isaac of Assembly of Called Out Believers. Yes, he is Jewish, but I agree with his teaching. I recommend his Torah series. Now, to your question, I think there is only one punishment that sends you to Hell: unbelief. All others have been paid for on the cross. But by not believing, you reject the covering of the blood of the lamb. But He paid for all your other sins on the cross. This doesn’t give us right to purposely sin, as it shows you have no love for Christ. But it does even out your punishment question. Another way to look at it, is sin separates us from God. We look at different sins as having different levels of severity. But a white light separates from God just as much as killing some one.
I would go even further. Why punish sinners in the first place? Surely a just and kind god would help wayward souls rehabilitate, and find faith in their heart, rather than inflicting torture for a lapse in judgement.
Heaven is for those who are perfect, and he'll is for those who are not. Except Jesus. Basically, our earthly ideas of fair do not hold up in the heavenly courts, because you are either a sinner, or not. It is by grace that we are saved, not by works. Also, I have just a few points: 1 God's kingdom is the real world, not the earth. The earth will fade away, but the heavens will not. 2 sin is not a scale, it is a binary value. Thank you for sharing this and I hope that this helps!
I’m unsure whether this will make sense but based off of what I’ve heard in my life, as long as you confess sins and feel genuine remorse and a want to change then anyone, regardless of sin committed, can go to heaven. This seems to follow the mathematical reasoning in the way that the infinite punishment (hell) is decided on the person wanting to change for the better and not on their sin intensity which is why it basically goes to infinity (undefined)?
There are 2 stories I'd like to appeal to here, which I find very important in understanding how hell works.
1. Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16): Lazarus, a poor beggar often sits near the house of an unnamed prideful rich man who never helps him. The former goes to "heaven" (it's kind of like a pseudo-heaven but it's at least meant to represent heaven) while the latter goes to hell.
Hell is described as a place of fire and torture for the rich man, but it should be noted that heaven is often highly symbolic in the Bible, so hell probably is too. The rich man is burning and in agony but he can easily see and talk to Abraham, implying it's more of a spiritual torment than a physical one. He does not ask for forgiveness or for mercy, but he asks for Lazarus to give him water, to ease his pain a little. He also asks for his brothers to be warned so that they don't suffer the same fate as him. The important thing to note here is that the rich man does not ask for repentance and seemingly doesn't really care about leaving hell. He wants his brothers to repent but that's just because he acknowledges heaven is better than hell, not because he thinks they're really doing anything wrong.
If the rich man had to choose between repenting to get to heaven and keeping his pride and going to hell, he would probably choose the latter.
2. St. Paisios's fast for Satan's repentance: At one point in his life, the Eastern Orthodox saint Paisios of Mt. Athos decides to start praying and fasting daily for the salvation of Satan. At one point, he is interrupted by a dog's head sticking its tongue out to mock him. This dog was Satan, and by the Holy Spirit he concluded that while God is prepared to forgive Satan at any time, granted he repents, Satan is not prepared to accept salvation. Satan would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.
Hell is torment, but not necessarily because it is a big hot pit of fire. It's a spiritual torment. An eternal corruption of the sinner's own soul due to his own pride. In a sense, they are punishing themselves. I personally believe this corruption of the sinner's own soul eventually leads to an annihilation of the soul, Jesus teaches that God can destroy the soul in hell and hell is also often described as a type of annihilation or destruction.
I hope this helps, this is how I reconcile the ideas of a good God and hell. I see it less as a punishment and more as the only possible result of an individual's own decisions.
Okay looking at the comments, I think people are missing the point of what Joshua said or they are not directly answering his question.
I know the video is 4 months old, but I just wanted to help contribute to answering this intriguing question.
TO ANSWER THE QUSTION DIRECTLY, yes, you are right, eternal damnation is too much for a human being, but we can still end up going. I will explain...
First off, it is very DIFFICULT for a human to go to hell. There is no need to eternally suffer for an action, for that is what the laws of karma are for. It exists as a way to make people learn their lessons by feeling the same way someone else did, making us reflect and avoid doing that again. There can be karmic dept that can stack up from many lifetimes and must be paid back in order for it to go away (which can be A LOT, but nowhere near infinite). So, as you can see, there is still no need for us to go to hell.
Hell (the Abyss) was not intended for human beings, as God knew that we would always make mistakes. Humans are only bound to karmic cycles (which is basically, do good and receive good, do bad and receive bad). It is the DEMONS that were meant to be casted below for eternity. The Demons know this, so what they do is TRICK humans into joining them in hell trough a DEMONIC GRIP, which is usually attached to anything low vibrational or anything that may make us forget God's love and presence in our life (guess you can call that "sin").
The Demons know how much God loves us, and thought they are clever enough to get God in a "checkmate", thinking that God will not cast the demon below if God sees the demon and the human are attached (because once the demon enters in, it now has a symbiotic bond with the human).
So now when we sin, we open a rift into our energies for demons to come in, using our bodies as a host, doing things MANY TIMES WORSE. So, there are two things that happen my friend. God will send as much divine assistance as possible to try and separate the human from the demon, but if it doesn't work, God will have to cast the demon below...and the demon sadly gets a new lifelong cellmate.
The other scenario is that Demons HATE God's anointed ones (including very loving and peaceful individuals) and let me tell you, God gets ANGRY when you touch his children. The demon will eventually use their human host to harm an anointed one, and when that happens, the WRAITH of God is invoked, where he would damn BOTH the demon AND the human host to hell, where even an eternity isn't enough to measure Gods wraith (Even with harming an anointed over and over again, God will still show great sympathy for the attacker, until God just gets fed up) .
So this is where the whole eternal damnation stuff came from. Number 1, hell is only meant for Demons, and number 2, it is due to Gods great wraith.
Also, God can see the true intent behind an action and see how heavy it really is (it's all about the intent), to us, it may be one way, but God can see a lot more behind an action, but he most certainty wouldn't damn you for J walking my friend, ha-ha!
Although I am not a Christian but I think this comment might help you understand and co-relate some questions you asked as it answers exactly those. I am someone who believes in some ideas of Hinduism (Hinduism is not at all a religion, Sanatan which follows some of its ideas is, Hinduism is a collection of ideas and philosophies) but I would like to put how we view and in short, you get as you do and that is how you make your hell or heaven, no one, gods, humans, animals or any other being escapes it, it is something everyone goes through and has to accept. Narkha (alternative to hell) in our case, it can be something on the basis of how you perceive it. It can be a place or an idea or an event on basis of how think of it. In our believes, it is something no being can escape. It is Karma. Karma for us is hell, heaven and everything in between. We do believe in Narkha (hell), Swarga (heaven) and human realm (I guess there were more). But what karma does, is it gives you back, exactly in the amount how you provide (for say you killed several beings brutally, now you will have to face the consequences for all of them which can be in one go or in several lives). Sometimes if you have done some amazing things in a single of several lives, you can even be spawned in heaven (Swarga) and likewise can also be thrown in hell (Narkha). But here is where the main things drop, some believe that karma gives you all the punishments and goods according to your doings in series of lives and some say that there is a place like a Narkha or Swarga, although most people (at least whom I know) actually believe the first one (including me) which makes more sense. Though the amazing thing about Karma, is no one can escape it, not even gods. Once Yama, god of death who owns the realm of Narkha or Hell (and no, there are no 33 million gods there are only 33 representing 33 different things), punished an old man excessively for a very small crime, and then the old man cursed the God of death and then the god of death was reincarnated and suffered for the bad he did. Not only that, even one among the trinity, Brahma (god of creation), got one of his five heads chopped of and cursed that he will never be worshiped (that's why no Sanatani worships him). But end goal for us is to achieve moksha, that is to become one with Param Brahma (one above all). A state where your mind and knowledge are beyond any other being and their comprehension. Other gods who are discussed in Hinduism or Santan are mostly just a way to get to that state. Although I have a theory about this, Param Brahma is just a being from another dimension who wants us to travel through dimensions and find him lol.
Hi there~ I don’t really comment and I might not be the best response since I am working on being more articulate with what’s on my mind but here it goes: I think the main question that determines the ultimate sentence- Heaven or Hell? - Is a matter of what you choose. For example, King David from the old testament had coveted another man’s wife, committed adultery with her while the the husband was away at war, impregnated her, and then proceeded to call the husband in from war and off him in attempt to cover his own sin. Yet why does the Bible say that “David was a man after God’s own heart”? Versus, King Saul, the king before David, was lead by God but ultimately fell away in the faith after seeking his own power instead of seeking God. The difference is the perseverance of faith. After realizing his sin (through Nathan the prophet), David proceeded to humble himself and seek mercy. So despite our own shortcomings, we must hope in God’s love for us that is able to transform us and that He is ultimately able despite what we think. When we lose faith, seek the world, see ourselves as god or practice idolatry among other things, that is a choice to turn away from God. And like David, sometimes we do not even realize our flaws. But if we try to stay sober minded and lean on Him when we cannot stand, then that is pursuing God. God even knew our shortcomings and improved the system of Law that man kept in order to be seen as pure by God, He gave His Only Son, Whose blood is enough to overcome our binds and ties to sin. | Proverbs 24:16 For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, but the wicked shall fall by calamity. | It’s also helped me to search for further context of these readings and the original words and definitions and the background of those (if possible). Yeah, this was long. Thank you for making such touching music!
I’m an independent Baptist and I’m gonna say what’s already been said a couple times: rejecting God is a crime punishable by eternity in torment. But you have to remember that we have a way out: Jesus. It’s hard to grasp that rejecting God is such a huge crime since the world lives like it’s a trifling sin… but it is massive and there is no greater sin. So if you want to talk about numbers, rejecting God = hell.
Divina Comedia 🎭 by Dante Aliguieri
First off. I'm not a Christian, I'm Agnostic but I do believe having multiple perspectives is important. Also historical background is important: The notions of hell and heaven are largely influenced by how people corrode them throughout history. So hell as the "eternal fiery pit" was born out of a era where unfit punishment was deemed as reasonable. Where ancient to medieval "God chosen" kings and "fair" slave owners sought arbitrary punishment for arbitrary crimes. Look at the witch trials or any wars that were both in "the name of god". In fact the idea of having an actually just punishment is only very very recent. And it didn't come from the heaven's, people fought for it on the ground.
On a philosophical stance many philosopers postulate that morality (including fair punishment) does not require a god or any other omniscient force to exist. Meaning that how we act and what we see as moral is not inscribed into the universe by god but that we and we alone have the responsibility of being the arbiter of morality. Which ties back into the history above and why morality is never a constant but it changes and warps throughout history as do humans.
So whether or not one's religion tells one that an eternity of punishment is just, it's up to the person, the people to decide whether that's just and not to the higher being who declares it so
This is honestly the one topic in Christianity that has shaken my faith down to it's foundation, to the point that I don't even call myself a Christian anymore. And for me, it's not the eternity that bothers me, but the fact that hell, whenever it is described in the Bible, is specifically detailed as a place of eternal torment and everlasting pain; even though many try to argue that it's something much more tame, or that it's simply 'separation from God', the Bible never describes it as such.
I was looking in the comments hoping for a even remotely satisfactory answer, but sadly I was only met with the same tired and unhelpful diatribes I've been met with before. I hope you find more peace with this topic than I have. Cheers!
Keep searching. There's plenty more answers than the ones in these comments. Search up Christian apologetics because they're way more qualified to answer than any of us are. Hope this helps :) !
the idea of it being separation from God shows that how hellish it really is to be fully away from God- because every single person on earth now has some common grace from God (the rain falls on the just and the unjust), hell is eternal separation from God so without the common grace from God and since God is good and is love therefore hell is a place without goodness and without love- that i think truly is hell for any human as we are made in God's image with love and for love and God
this is my take on it anyways, maybe this'll help? not sure
but dont give up the faith, therell be an answer im sure- and i suppose it wouldnt hurt to ask God to help you understand! afterall the Holy Spirit is called the Helper
God bless you and have a good day!
@@bonesybucket Perfect answer.
Being Christian means at the basic level, you understand that there's a GOD and that JESUS died for us. Then beyond that you're seeking to understand GOD's justice. What you did was give up the faith as soon as you did not reach a satisfactory answer, but to be blunt, the problem lies with you, not GOD. Because you didn't understand, does not make GOD unjust. It wouldn't make sense to know there's a GOD who created justice itself, but your own sense of justice drew you away from Him. You must approach the problem already knowing He is just, and now seeking to understand that justice. To put it simply, GOD is infinitely good, the opposite of that infinite goodness is infinite evil which deserves infinite punishment. That is justice. Especially when GOD himself laid down His life for His creations.
It's like someone having a sickness that will eventually kill them, and when you offer them the remedy, they decide to stay sick and when they die they blame they're death on you.
@@naoedouard4422 Saying I gave up "as soon as [I] didn't find a satisfactory answer" makes it seem as though I barely searched and then decided to stop; you don't know me or my struggle. I've wrestled with this for years, and have only 'given up' at the point that it became too painful to think about anymore. As a very empathetic person, the simple idea of others burning for all eternity (keep in mind that being burned is considered one of the most painful experiences imaginable), with no sense of relief, or reprieve, FOREVER, is the most incomprehensibly depressing thought I can imagine. The reality is, I don't know if I could be happy in Heaven, knowing that there's people I love, and people I've never known, suffering eternally in Hell. And if I have this much empathy that the idea itself is unbearable, how am I supposed to trust that God is perfect when he doesn't even have as much empathy as I do?
Hello Joshua. Can I write a long answer? I'm supposing that u will read, since u asked.
I'm Thaiane, from Brazil. Nice to "meet you". I've been recently crossed about your music on Spotify and it just blowed my mind (I just went to check and it was 10 days ago, the day u posted that video) . Now I searched ur name on youtube to see if u was around here and this was the first video the popped out to me. Well I have an answer for you.
I had the same struggle that you about Hell and it brought me more than questions, it brought me mental health problems. It brought me religious OCD. Despite from that (a hard thing to live with), in my christian journey, God lead me in a way that I found the truth about this issue called "Hell". It just a sum up that I can say its a testimony and, if I didn't value that much this topic that causes serious issues on ppl seeking for God I wouldn't write about that in public like that. So, about Hell, it does not exist like that (like most ppl imagine and preach on most churches). Ofc, despite I myself prefer this idea than the opposite, when I tell you theres not its based on the Bible, but its not the main stream interpretation, sadly. If you want to understand more about it I would suggest you 3 options: 1) read about this topic written by the seventh day adventists (SDA) or SDA churches websites; 2) order for free some study they made (on paper); 3) or a third option is to find some seventh day adventist church. It was there that I learned about that topic. Im gonna let some links for you at the end.
The conclusion u made by yourself about the injustice of an eternal torment versus a fair God its the same I also had, any child can have and lots of ppl also have. Well my answer is long enough so.. if I could sum up, this hell concept has a root in famous philosophers such as plato, who also divide man between soul and body. Which according to the Bible is also not the truth, since in Genesis it is clear that we were made souls, not that we have a soul.
At first it may seem like they are different themes, but one thing is completely related to the idea of an eternal hell. The true biblical doctrine is that only the saved will have eternal life and this is spread throughout it. Those who will not be saved, each according to their own reasons, will not live eternally under torture. They will be destroyed by what the bible calls eternal fire. What is eternal is not the duration of the punishment, it is the consequence. I will finish here so, like I said, if u really want to understand more about it u can go to the church I said and ask someone a bible study or read by yourself some online, and then u can have u own conclusion at the end.
Thank you for u beautiful talent and songs Joshua
🌹
Links:
Blog: www.askanadventistfriend.com/death/do-seventh-day-adventists-believe-in-hell/
Video: ruclips.net/video/ecjaQ_La8U0/видео.html
Vídeo:www.helltruth.com/free-resources/video-library/id/1677/t/a-tale-about-hell
The thing is, they're not just little crimes. God is God. We can't even begin to understand His perfection, who He is, how He is, etc. So, that God, the God of everything, with all of His glory and everything... died for us. The sacrifice is SO big, so much so, that hell almost looks like nothing compared to it. That's what I had to say, thanks for reading and hoped it sparked a little understanding haha ! It's my point of view, but let me know if anything : )
I think that we would have to understand God to understand why the punishment is what it is
Don’t go to Hades and the Lake of Fire, like the rest of the world.
Hello Joshua. Not a current subscriber or viewer, for some reason RUclips chose to put this in to my recommended.
In your example, you mention an infinite punishment and a crime of finite severity.
Now one thing to consider regarding the severity of an offence is the category and status of who it is against. Take the offence of killing something. Killing a plant (like a shrub), killing an ant, killing a mouse, killing a horse, and killing a human all have different moral evaluations. The offence is the same in each case (killing), but the one we commit the offence against is different. Killing a human is generally something people think is far worse than stepping on an anthill and killing even 100 ants. In fact, if given the choice between killing billions of ants or killing one human, I'd expect most people would kill the ants (if choosing 'neither' was an option). Ants by their nature are in a totally different category of being than us humans, and have a different moral worth. Humans have far greater moral worth.
Now God as an infinitely perfect being is in a category beyond us, and thus any offence against Him would be infinitely more grave than an offence towards a fellow human, no matter how small. Thus Hell could be defended as justifiable retribution. The difference between humans and ants is small compared to the difference between God and us.
There are other angles to look at this issue as well, for example, how do we determine if something is just or unjust? Some (not all) Christians, like William Lane Craig (protestant) hold to an account of morality called divine command theory. Under divine command theory, whatever God does cannot be unjust simply by definition (as justice is defined in terms of whatever God wills). But I think this may be beyond the scope of this question. I bring this up just to suggest that our human conceptions of justice may not always be correct and that our understanding may be flawed compared to God's.
Disclaimer: I am not a Christian, rather a Muslim, but the same theological question can be posed in our tradition.
This part of the answer may be specific to Islam (I cannot comment if it holds true in Catholicism). There is a passage where those being eternally punished in Hell plead with God to be sent back to earth, to be given another chance at life. If they were given another chance they promise they will do things differently this time. Aside from it being too late for this, the response mentions that even if they were to be sent back and given another chance, they would go right back to what they were doing before. Things would not actually be different (See Quran 6:27-28). This is something I personally keep in mind when discussing the notion that only a "finite crime" was committed.
First of all, you missed one small thing: God does not send anyone to hell, we have to go to hell because we deserve it, since we live out of God's world. But Jesus sacrificed himself to give us a way out of hell. Another thing: since people in life still want to live separate from Jesus, they will have to spend eternity separate from Jesus, because God gave us the freedom to choose where to go. Hope this answers your question and Bye!
(I love your music by the way)
I completely agree with you on this, because we do have an infinitely just and perfect God any sin we would consider insignificant or small is still sin in the eyes of God. It is not up to a math equation or what we see as fair, this is what we truly deserve. We were born rebellious and sinful and can only find forgiveness through Christ our redeemer.
God didn't make us perfect though did he? When he had the option to. So technically speaking, no we don't really deserve it. (I'm not picking a fight or anything btw, but this is one of the reasons why I call myself an ex-christian)
@@mattea8588 if he made us perfect, he would have made us empty shells, puppets. Instead, he decided to give us free will. Great Question.
@@mattea8588He had made us ‘perfect’, in a way. For God had saw His Creation, good.
Human beings were made from God’s image. He breathed the breath of life in us, and made us a living soul.
We were unique from everything God had made. He gave us the ability to choose for our own selves. Consciousness, or awareness.
Then again, Lucifer, now known as Satan, was the one who sinned against God. With that, involving Humans aswell.
Satan acted as the serpent, and tempted Eve. Eve was tricked, for she wasn’t knowledgeable of God’s command.
She thought, “if we touch the fruit, or eat it, we die.”
But God’s command was that they could, “eat freely of every tree in the garden except one, the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”
Highlighting it, “In the day thou eat est thereof, thou shalt surely die.”
When Eve and Adam had eaten the fruit, Sin came, and death was the result of sin.
The serpent tricked Eve, that if she would eat the fruit, they would not die, and “be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
Eve gave in to the temptation and ate the fruit. Adam followed later on.
We were made ‘perfect’, in a sense.
‘Perfect’, with our own consciousness.
Lucifer sinned, and was cast down.
As we have also, now deserving punishment as our ancestors had sinned, our very blood, lineage, is filled with Sin.
..
Romans 6:23
For the Wages of sin is death;
BUT the gift of God is Eternal Life, through whom?
Through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Only Jesus can forgive your, and My sins. Be it thou may, Have Faith in Jesus and and ask forgiveness of your sins.
Acknowledge that you are a sinner, and thou shalt be saved.
As the Bible had stated. :)
"He will not be sent to hell. He will have a choice, stand eternally in God's presence or go to hell. And he will choose hell because he'll resent God, he'll cry out "WHY DID YOU NOT SAVE ME!"
I think the problem arises from the fact people needed a logical, literal, factual answer to the alternative of heaven. If heaven is infinite bliss in communion with God, then we have to invent the opposite. Whether it was to scare people into behaving properly to control them or some other reason, it doesn't really matter.
The thing is, the Father is the God of the living and the wage for sin is death. That's all. When your soul is thrown in the lake of fire, it is consumed and dies. I seriously doubt there is a hell in which people will be tormented for eternity. Time is a dimension that needs physicality to make sense. In other words, eternity should not be a concept that applies to the soul of an individual who died. Also, you need a body in order to be tormented by flames. So all of this doesn't really make sense. There shouldn't be a hell. There shouldn't be a "punishment." In my opinion, the quest isn't about avoiding something negative. Instead, it is about achieving the ultimate success, that is following the last commandment that Jesus gave is on the sermon of the mount. "Therefore you must be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect" our focus should be on that alone, nothing else should matter. Which is why the very concept of "dogma" is silly to me.
You were given perfect and perfectly simple command. To become perfect, in the image of your father, through the grace of Christ, his son, who shows you the way. Do you see how hell isn't a concern when you think about it that way?
I really think that we are here to achieve being filled by grace , nd we are simply "discarded" If we fail, not punished. I understand that isn't what the church's dogma is, but it is a lot simpler and eliminates a lot of the logical problems that come with the christian faith that unfortunately was developed by men over the last 2000 years ago. We should focus on Christ and the gospel.
Take it one commedment at a time. A good one to start with in my opinion is "love your enemy." If you can master just this one, you will be infinitely closer to God than the vast majority of people.
Joshua get a mousepad for the computer mice 😭
How did this question arise ? Isn’t the premise in Christianity that Jesus died for our sins ? Why would any crime done by a Christian who believes in Jesus go to hell ? Have I got the doctrine wrong ?
God has infinite value, and when you sin against a God with infinite value the only punishment that exists is of the same infinite weight, which is eternal death of your soul. Since your soul is also infinite the punishment is infinite
Its pretty simple actually. You can have comitted the worst offences, but as long as you, before the return of christ, genuinely believe jesus was raised from the dead and that God is the one and only, you can get to "heaven". On the contrary, not getting to heaven wouldnt equate to eternal damnation. It simply means that those who have died without the promise of eternal life with God stay asleep, and all the others are either forced to confess the Devil as the one and true god or are punished by him(nobody actually knows what such punishment would entail however.
Hello Joshua. In this instance, the mathematical framework does not apply. Mathematics, as a creation of God, aids in our comprehension of the three-dimensional world in which we reside. Our perceptions of time are also tailored to this world. However, in God's realm, concepts of time and even laws differ. Similarly, just as fire is utilized to purify certain items, I perceive the concept of hell as a means to cleanse the soul.
I send a message on Instagram 😅 to answer your question. My message is based on biblical verses that talk about what happens when you die.
I'm going to give this a shot on the off chance someone reads it. I will do my best to explain.
Hell is both a place AND a state of being. Everyone will be subject to the same external reality (Gods love), but we will experience it differently depending on the state of our will (adjusted to choosing virtues or vice)
Imagine a parent holding a baby, the baby could be throwing a tantrum or could be calm (same external reality, different experience of the subject)
Catholics and Protestants will have a legalistic view on sins and hell, which is probably why you formulated the question how you did (nothing wrong with that, I get it)
You will hear a lot that people "send themselves" to hell, which on its face seems wild. What is understood by that is we can choose to partake and act out the virtues (love, forgiveness, mercy, compassion, alms giving, ect)
The more you interact with virtues (you 'will' towards them), you get...adjusted to what the virtues are, and how they transform/transfigure you. The same is true if you 'will' towards the vices/passion/deadly sins.
Since will is a faculty or attribute of your human nature (which gets ressurected) the state of that will is maintained (if its adjusted to virtues or vices).
If your will is adjusted to the virtues you will experience Gods love for what it is.
If your will is adjusted to the vices, Gods love will be like fire.
Ever well-being vs ever ill-being.
I asked my dad, who learn theology and still reads a lot of books about the religion, and he said roughly the same as @bonesybucketplays1885. That who is not in heaven choses no to be with god.
He also said that most ppl have a wrong hell and heaven pictuer in their head, that comes from the greek philosophy/religion and other religions. Calling it ethernal is wrong, because it is not ethernal, more like timeless. And that heaven and hell are not places but more like states. And hell is not punishemnt, more like heaven is a "gift".
Hi Joshua,
This is a great topic! It's better to talk about this in person, but I'll give this my best shot. Please excuse any typos.
The concept of hell makes no sense in terms of finite crimes on earth. But, it does make sense when you look at infinity itself. And God dwells in infinity. Now in the beginning, God created a world meant to last forever if only Adam and Eve obeyed Him. There was no Hell, because it wasn't necessary. Then, Adam and Eve chose to do wrong before God and sent humanity on a path of sin (which is defined as doing wrong in God's eyes). Thus, the infinite life, joy, and goodness God designed was destroyed by people.
God created us with free will. That free will allows us to choose between life and death. In the Bible, God repeatedly asks (or begs) people to choose to do what is right or they will suffer consequences. We choose not to obey, often. Jesus came as the final offering for our lack of obedience to ensure that we can make it to God (John 14:6).
The reason Hell is eternal is because doing wrong violates God's law, and His law is eternal. But Jesus came to be brudge over that gap between our sins and God's right judgment. I hope this helps. It's kind of a weighty thing to convey just in one comment.
It would be much easier to talk about this in real life. If you ever want to, I'll tell you what I've learned. I also keep asking questions. It's the only way to learn.
I am not going to present a clarification of the concept of Hell because I believe you already have enough of those, even if none of them are entirely right. I would simply like to point out that when you look at this comment section you are looking at the perspectives of different denominations and different people who may or may not have authority or credentials to appropriately explain this concept. Therefore I would recommend you take caution when you read and analyze all of these responses as they could easily confuse your developing understanding of reality. Despite saying that, I also applaud you for bringing this question to the channel, and your sincerity in the process. Just because you may not find the perfect answer here doesn’t mean you have not found a better answer then your previously conceived idea.
I hope you find the community you are breaking into welcoming and supportive, and all the while I hope you remember that those who run the parish community are imperfect beings too. You may not find the responses you are looking for in them. You may not find the behavior you were expecting. What I believe you will find, however, is a place that reminds you weekly of the reality you live in. A place where you can go to reflect and learn more about your reality, all the while finding great peace in the pursuit of understanding reality. I truly believe the Christian world view is the only world view that offers both practical truths which positively serve social humanity and divine truths which guide people to all which is worth being. By extension, I believe the Catholic Faith, with its origins to Christ only comparatively shared with Orthodoxy, to be the true faith in light of its wealth of well developed and coherent doctrine, various Saints, various incredible apologists, among other reasons. Take peace in knowing that you ARE pursuing a worldview which at its core calls for love of friend and enemy. Dont let that blind you into fighting “tough love”, but do let it comfort you.
My dear pal.
You might erase my presence from your view after reading it all.
While writing this, Arno's waltz was playing in the room.
As human civilization and towns expanded during the agricultural era, social monitoring became increasingly challenging.
So supernatural punishments became the new mechanism to curb antisocial behavior, but these gods could not be effective monitors.
Nowdays, secular institutions take on the role of supernatural monitors.
We need to compose in reality with authentic materials.
im not an expert so if anyone thinks im wrong please do say so
hey Joshua, big fan of your work, im baptised in eastern orthodoxy , but was exposed to the catholic denomination for my entire journey through christianity, i myself see the two very similar in their theological believes, to answer your question
first crimes don't have to be sins(though in a just country they probably will be) and sins don't have to be considered crimes by the judicial system. beyond this, the idea of sins as a numerical system of counting your wrongs(see the show 'The Good Place' for what that would look like) is inherently wrong, sin is acting in a way that goes against god, god is all good, every good thing comes from god, as such if you do something against god you sin for it is evil/bad, however the reason sin is bad is not just the action itself, which is important, but also that sin leads to a separation from god, a break in the relationship. you see if one sins they hurt their relationship with god as you must WILLINGLY go against god to sin, you must want to do [insert bad thing here] to sin.
as such the more you sin the further away from a real relationship with god you are, even if you are baptised you will sin, "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Mathew 21. the "will of my Father who is in heaven" is both the things you are called to do and called not to do, but it is also the will of the father to be in relation with humans. a 'real relationship' with god is different for nearly everyone i've heard talk of it, and no one can say which is right or wrong, you must figure that out for yourself.
to put it all together, sining is straying from god, as such if sin is what causes one to enter into hell, then hell is where one goes if they reject gods ways and stray from him, one must truly hate our father/ believe they can do whatever they want ect, to go to hell, those that wont follow our father even if he revealed himself are the ones that will enter hell, those that will not wish to repent and redeem themselves.
hope this helps👍
Also, Josh, consider that Jesus said, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign, and no sign will be given to it, but the sign of Jonah.”
Consider that when Jonah, an unrighteous man, accepted responsibility for his sin and went into the belly of the whale, he was brought up again and every single soul in Nineveh repented at his preaching.
Perfect salvation for every soul!!!
So how is that Jesus, after accepting responsibility for all sin, and going into the grave for three full days and resurrecting will only preach unto the salvation of a few?
If Jesus said He would only give one sign, wouldn’t you expect the parable to be consistent?
Did Jonah, a somewhat difficult and ornery prophet, somehow outdo his Creator?
Consider these things. Ask the Lord what He has to say! He says, “ask and you will receive”.
You’ve asked, and now He has provided you an answer.
My daughter follows your music posts, and saw your question. She asked me to answer you.
I’m not interested in proselytizing anyone, but she is right when she says that no one responding to you is speaking clearly or answering your perfectly understandable question.
I hope this helps.
Punishment does not only have to do with what crime you commited, it also has to do with who are you committing the crime against. The crime x the person you commited the crime against = the crime's punishment. The punishment you received for stealing from the country's president is far bigger than the punishment you receive for stealing from a random person. Let's use that logic with God now. Sin (any sin) x God (infinite) = infinite punishment. Everything you multiply infinity with always equals to infinity so every sin you commit against the infinite God equals to infinite punishment. That is why Jesus is the only one who can save us. Jesus is God and God is infinite. Only the Infinite God can pay for infinite punishment.
I have an Orthodox Christian believe but Catholics (like you) believe in the purgatory for people with minor sins, where souls are being cleansed and only stay temporarily. Now, because I do not myself believe in purgatory, I want to anwer it from my standpoint. Every sin is equal in Christianity. Yes, there are minor sins and larger sins, but each is equally evil. If you commit a sin and don't repent it, your just punishment would be infinite hell for an infinite evil sin. It is infinite because it defiles your soul forever. Believing in God however and sincerely repenting the sin makes your soul pure again.
Hi Joshua! I'm a big fan of your compositions but that aside I'm a Christian bring a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, which you may or may not have heard of before 😂 but the belief that we hold is that hell is not a place, it is not a form of punishment that is generally believed, the hell that we believe in is not being able to live with our Father in heaven in all the love, light, and power he so desperately wants to give us. Your worries of eternal punishment for crimes not severe enough is something everyone worries about. We have all slipped once and living the perfect and 'good' life is impssible. No one should be exalted in true fairness or judgment, but the belief that Christ makes up that difference FOR us is the most crucial element because he lived perfectly he broke the system for us to be eternally at pure joy more powerful then we have ever been. More than just this repentance process, there is the belief that what is in your heart matters, why do you do things and do you honestly try. Those who do not wish to be the best they can and knowingly commit more serious actions will have more consequences in the end, but generally these people do not want to live with God and find it uncomfortable and anxious, so even they will have comfort in the separation. The idea that God loves us and is trying so hard to get us back, it would go against his nature as a loving parent if he submitted us to eternal anguish and hell or why would he give us not only help but our life on earth itelf.
Hey, im catholic, and that punishment is eternal and just because God gave us freedom to chose to love him or to ofend him, and not all sins leave you to hell, but they are this mortal sins that kill the soul, then when we commit some of this it kills our souls and make us enemies od God becausr of ofending him in a hard way, but we still have confesion that is the forgiving of sins and that is why its just, because when we still breathing we have time to repentance and to go to heaven, that is also eternal, so it os just because we have time here on earth, but then after death there is no time so it was wath we do on earth or life wath makes us wether going to eternal happiness or eternal hell, its an infinite reward or an infinite punishment, but we decide it with our actions, but also note that we are also not good enough to eternal rejoice, even if like you say we do 100000 good actions, we dont even are close to get to heaven, but just for Jesus who died so we dont go to hell and we can go to heaven
John 16:9-11 explains this a bit. Jesus says that the worlds sin is their unbelief in Him.
Hell is actually the “garbage disposal site” of eternity. No human is supposed to go there.
Grace has been extended to all.
I view it this way: God knows about hell and doesn’t want anyone to go there (John 3:16). So He has a free invitation Card into his Kingdom (Christ). Anyone who accepts the Card can get in. The rest who wilfully refuse the Card deny themselves an opportunity of a lifetime (eternity).
God operates in laws, and He honours his laws. The visible and the invisible realms are strictly upheld by laws. The world is upheld by God’s mathematical and physics laws . He has given us his Word (Christ ) for eternal salvation from hell.
Привет я отвечу на твой вопрос по мере своих знаний: человек попадает в ад за свои грехи, а прощение грехов можно получить только кровью Иисуса пролитой на кресте, поэтому люди находящиеся в аду никогда не получат прощение так как Бог их отвергнет и кровь их не омоет. А насчет ада скажу, что он не вечен, в книге откровение сказано что ад будет брошен в озеро огненное, в конце все будут страдать в генне огненной
(Comment 2) Expounding on what I said in previous comment here, so read "Comment 1" first.
I seriously can not emphasise and recommend enough that you should go to a nondenominational church (such as a Calvary Chapel, if they have one of those near where you live. I go to one of those, and I've also visited several others. They are really great churches). Catholic churches are based on the same Bible as nondenominational churches (obviously), but the way they teach God's word can be very wrong. Doesn't it seem strange that priests are lifted up above everyone else (you even confess your sins to the priest) even though they are just as sinful and imperfect as us? We should be going directly to God and to the Bible with our problems, because God loves us and wants to help us and guide us, not a human who is just as imperfect as we are. My pastor teaches directly from the Bible, he doesn't give us his own opinions, just the pure word of God. He may give us certain interpretations of the more complicated verses which he has investigated plenty to find (and most importantly, has talked to God to find), but we can still read the Bible and talk to God ourselves to try and figure out what any of the verses mean (especially some of the more theological and less straightforward verses). Catholic churches just seem to have a harder time understanding God's grace. He gave us the gift of heaven and He guides us and gives us the Holy Spirit (and countless other blessing that I'm not gonna list here because there are so many haha) because he loves us so much (I also talked about that in my previous comment). The Catholic church focuses so much on being perfect, when all God wants is for us to try our best through HIS strength (because no human is capable of being perfect through their own) and through asking HIM to help us and do HIS will in our lives, and then if we mess up, HE forgives us in an instant as soon as we ask HIM for forgiveness. It's impossible to explain how beautiful it is and how much peace I feel (Philippians 4:7 "And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.") having a deep and PERSONAL relationship with God. Being able to talk to God in any and every instant about any of my problems and struggles, (as well as asking the LORD to help with loved ones' problems and struggles) and also about my thankfulness to God and the joy that He brings me is the most amazing thing I have ever experienced.
Also, as an ending to all of what I (and everyone else who is commenting) have said, you don't need to only hear this from all of us sinful humans giving our ideas to you. The best way to find answers to your questions is to ask God, and well as reading the Bible and praying for God to show you specific verses and reveal their meanings to you.
I may not be any help to this whatsoever. But i follow a guy named George Carlin on these types of things. Too many questions and messed up stuff going on to really see anything great on it. So i would just say it would be your own personal thoughts on it. Im not going to sit here and claim to know how any of it actually is if it actually real. Just follow your heart on what you believe and dont let anyone tell you otherwise ok. Sorry if my thoughts werent needed. Have a good day
the obserdity of false belief. hell isnt God's punishment on them.
its their own doing. its not eternal.
if you are of hellish character your judgement will be all on yourself.
in the light of truth your darkness is limitation
its the weight of their lies & deception then that kept them
in this realm on the morning of your ascension to the sun.
God desires all to be saved and to come to him. He turns no one away. Those whom in this life cooperate with Him and acquire Divine Love, these shall be saved. But those who reject God and His love, these shall not be separated from Him, but shall be chastened in His presence. We will all experience the unveiled presence of God, who is Light and Love. To those who “love darkness rather than light” (John 3:19), that inescapable Light shall be searing torment (This seems to echo the view of St. Theophanes of Nicaea). St. Isaac of Syria calls the Fire of Gehenna the Scourage of Love. God is unlimited and infinite. The fires of Gehenna are uncreated. The damned are being purified, but the purification is eternal and will be extended into infinity. Those who do not partake in salvation will end up in a cyclical state of perpetual but never-ending purification. Such is the view of St. Gregory of Nyssa. God’s antidosis/repayment in Hell is healing. God is just and fair, but loving and kind.
I hope this helps you! May God bless you!
Christianity, like most Ancient and Medieval beliefs, is not based on science and rationality but rather dogma, romanticism, and sometimes self-delusion. I would not waste my time in such frivolous pursuits. The Bible, like many ancient texts, can be used to entertain oneself and in a few cases, even learn some moral lessons. However, it should not be used to define your world view and cloud your scientific reasoning and judgement. You are an intelligent young man. A lot of people spiral into a religious rabbit hole and regret it years later. Don't be one of them.
Very interesting - wow
What you are saying is true, and that’s actually what we read about in the Old Testament of the Bible. According to the law, “literally anything” (as you mentioned in your video) can send us to hell, because God is Holy and set apart from all sin. Anyone who has sin cannot enter the kingdom of God (we read about this in Ephesians chapter 5 (specifically verses 19-22).
That is exactly why we are in need of a Savior - Jesus Christ. Jesus not only washes away our sin, He takes it away. Once we BELIEVE in our hearts and confess with our mouth that Jesus Christ takes away our sin, we are promised eternal life! (Romans 10:9) This is the good news. We don’t have to strive to escape hell / strive to earn eternal life, because once we trust that Jesus Christ has died the death that we deserve, and conquered the grave by resurrecting, we are now conquerors over death with Him. He lives in us and cleanses us from all sin. This is the good news!
I hope this finds you well and helps. May God bless you and continue to reveal to you the beauty of Jesus and the freedom that He gives to His children!
Hello, Joshua. GOD is just, which would mean your crime is indeed worthy of the punishment you received. Let's say that your sin is adultery. You cheat on your spouse over and over again and you end up cheating on them until the day you die despite having several chances to change. Your judgement is hell, not because cheating is equal to hell, but because cheating is against the word of GOD and the opposite of following GOD is following the devil.
This means you have chosen the laws of the devil which in its essence is evil itself from which every sin is born. Because the absence of good is evil, and when you allow sin to take over your life, you do not get to decide how bad you become. You are a slave to it.
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey-whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? Romans 16:16
This means you have joined forces with the devil, you are his slave, he is your master and you are one unit. We already know that the things he has done is irredeemable. Mind you, please don't confuse living in sin and denying the sacrifice JESUS made for us, with accepting the blood JESUS spilt for us and still being imperfect.
We are humans, we will always be imperfect. Only GOD is perfect, and it is only when we let Him fill us with His Spirit that we become complete.
When you accept JESUS, He becomes your judge and His sacrifice atones for our wrongs over and over again. Without Him, we are left alone to face sins (Satan) and go the same place our master is heading.
To put it into perspective, when you choose sin, you are choosing Satan. So naturally, you are heading to the same place he is because there is no in between.
To answer your question nothing exists between good and evil. Having a specific amount of years to give to every unredeemed sinner is creating something in-between good and inbetween evil, and simultaneously different levels of evil, and different levels of good. This would mean those who are saved are all varying levels of good, and this can't be true because there is only one version of good and it's complete goodness. The kind of good GOD makes us when He fills us with His Spirit. To say otherwise would indirectly mean GOD represents different levels of good which is not true. GOD is the maximum good. We represent the maximum good through Him who fills us and redeems us.
Please let know if there's anything I didn't answer or didn't explain well. I'm up for debate ☺️!
This destruction (Psalm 37:38; Proverbs 29:1; Matthew 7:13; Romans 9:22; Philippians 3:19) is a continual state of being destroyed. It is an "everlasting destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9; Psalm 92:7), as the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed (Genesis 19:24; 2 Peter 2:6), and now,
are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jude 7)
The people of Sodom and Gomorrah have been suffering the vengeance of eternal fire for roughly 4000 years now, and they have absolutely no hope of relief. They have been in horrible pain for 4000 years, and all they have to look forward to is more torture for the rest of eternity; and the Lord has set them forth as an example for mankind that this is what they too will receive if they continue to live ungodly lives. For,
Upon the wicked He will rain coals; fire and brimstone and a burning wind shall be the portion of their cup. (Psalm 11:6; see also Psalm 140:10)
Psalm 11:6 describes hell not as a passively burning fire, but rather an actively aggressive fire that is raining hot coals along with a burning wind down upon those in hell. The weather in hell is always bad. It not only has coals of fire (Proverbs 25:22; Romans 12:20) and burning wind, but it is smoky as well, burning with a smoke that will continually rise up from the torment of those in it (Psalm 37:20; Revelation 14:11; see also Isaiah 34:10; Revelation 19:3). So, smoke ascends upward, coals of fire descend downward, and the fire, sulfur, and people burn in its midst (Revelation 21:8). Jesus called hell "the furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:42, 50).
Moreover, hell's torture is quite physical. Jesus said,
Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)
God destroys both the soul and the body in hell. Jesus likewise warned,
If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. (Matthew 5:29-30)
Clearly "the body" is cast into hell. The rich man in Hades exemplified this when he said,
"Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue." (Luke 16:24)
His tongue was (and still is) burning hot.
Haven’t you read Ezekiel 15:48-58?
It clearly declares hope for the daughters of Sodom and Gommorah.
You are the one who will not even mention Sodom because of your contempt. And it’s because your wickedness has not yet been revealed. I have found that only those hiding sin so adamantly preach the Damnation “gospel”.
Emily, you are proud and hateful.
You don’t know the Scriptures, and you don’t know the Lord.
The Scriptures continually preach reconciliation for all men, and only enemies of Jesus Christ insist otherwise.
(Comment 1) Because God doesn't "send" us to hell just because we do some small thing wrong. We are already GOING to hell, not because we "jaywalked," for example, but because we did ANYTHING against an all perfect, amazing, and wonderful God. There are plenty of movies and things where you see someone committing even just a minor offense against a king, and they get beheaded because they are offending royalty. (That was just an example, I'm not justifying that or anything because even the royalty is still just a sinner and is no better than the person committing the offense) Doesn't it make sense that committing an offense against THE GOD who is literally PERFECT and who CREATED us, (you literally wouldn't even have existed to ask that question in the first place if God hadn't created us, let that sink in a little) would be deserving of a greater punishment? And also, you can't just look at the punishment and assume that God isn't a good god. If you're only seeing hell and not seeing the bigger picture, then there is no point of the Bible. You have to also consider that God gave us THE most gracious and awesome gift anyone ever could have, which is heaven. And heaven is also eternity. No matter what you do wrong, (you could literally be a serial killer) God will still forgive you and you will still go to heaven if you just believe in Jesus dying for the sins of the world. That gift was only through His abundance of LOVE. No one could ever possibly deserve that. That doesn't add upp either, to have INFINITE heaven all because we just believe the gospel, and it's all because God. Loves. Us. Unconditionally. That's SO much more than any human could ever possibly deserve. We need to stop trying to fit God into our box of what we (imperfect and sinful humans) think is "right" or "fair" based on the laws that we (again, imperfect and sinful humans) made up. (Sorry this ended up so long, I get a excited when I'm talking about God lol)
Hey Joshua,
I see where you're coming from when you say, at 3:09 that "if hell is eternal, its intensity index must also be infinite". However, the intensity index increases as the authority increases. For example, if you slap a homeless person, you will face some consequences to a certain degree. But if you go to the White House, and slap the president, the consequences you must face are much higher. It is the same with God.
Sinning against an infinite creator calls for an infinite punishment. But since God the father is not only all-just, but also all-loving, he gave us a way out of certain punishment of hell fire. He sent a substitute worthy of taking all of the sins of humanity upon himself, since he himself did not sin but was perfect, and take the punishment of hell that we were supposed to take on the cross. By rising from the dead he proves that all of his teachings were true.
I don't think I have the best answer since there are many others with way more knowledge than me. To sum everything up, it is not necessarily the sin itself, but who the sin is being committed against, that calls for a proportionally appropriate punishment. But Christ died on the cross to give us a way to paradise.
hell is completely voluntary. remember this place hell was never meant for us. and god is fair, thats why he sent his son Jesus to cover the debt of sin which is death. the bible says the everyone will have a chance to accept christ, but there will be people that wont want to be with god. so those people will go to hell with satan and his army. i dont think hell is this ugly place, true hell is being separated from god.
Did ancient Native Americans in the year 100 AD go to hell?
Because the standard of the Most High God is not humanity's standard. Hell was not intended for humanity - it was a punishment for the devil and his angels after they reblled against Ahayah. (Matthew 25:41 KJV) also remember when adam and eve were created, everything was perfect. There was no sin, no unrighteousness, no death. But when they disobeyed Yashaya and listened to Satan, all of humanity was put under a curse. Now we would have sin. And sin requires a payment. We as humans cannot pay the cost of sin. Thats why the Father had to send his only begotten son Yashaya to be the ultimate sacrifice. (John 3:16 KJV, and read Isaiah 53 KJV for a better understanding) The wages of sin is death. (Romans 6:23) and WE can say "hell is too harsh of a punishment" but you have to understand that Ahayah is righteous, there is no unrighteousness in him. Flesh cannot dwell in his presence. So that is why he sent his only begotten Son to die on the cross for us so that we would be free from sin. This is the good news aka the gospel. You have to understand the gospel and that will help you unferstand why sin is so detrimental and hell is the punishment. We also must remember that the Father is a fair and just judge. It was not in his will for us to go to hell. But thankfully, he sent his son so we could have a chance of everlasting life. That is the gospel. And btw, Read the word. Get in those scriptures. Matthew 11:28-30 talks about how Yashaya wants everyone to learn of him. You want an understanding? Read the bible daily. Let the Holy Spirit guide you, Yashaya said he would send a comforter and she was the Spirit of truth and would testify of our Lord and saviour. Dont rely on man to give you the information. What does Thus saith the LORD say? If you want to find, you must seek his word. Pray with a sincere heart. Ask him to show you who he is. And he will reveal himself to you. Bur you must be able to receive his word. The bible is not a textbook. Its the heart of the LORD..the living waters, the hidden manna. Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Read the King James Bible, pray for understanding from the Holy Spirit. Let the HS guide you.
Also - catholicism is false doctrine. So is Christianity, I am an Israelite but still wanted to share.
Love your music. Thank you for the respect in the tone of your voice. The problem with your argument is that it relies on arbitrary moral assumptions. As David Hume showed, morality in the atheistic worldview is, at its core, arbitrary. The problem arises from the fact that we cannot derive ought, or value judgments, based on facts about the world. For example, one could say, "Murder causes suffering. Therefore, murder is wrong." This argument relies on the obvious assumption that causing suffering is wrong. If causing suffering was not wrong, the argument would not make any sense. However, the problem with this is that you have to prove that causing suffering is wrong. Again, you cannot just give me a fact about the world to come to that conclusion. As we did before, you would need both a fact statement and a value statement to prove the "wrongness" of causing suffering. This is the problem with making objective moral judgments in the atheist worldview. You continue asking an atheist "Why do you believe this ethical judgment" and they just end at some premises that they accept as "just so". Either that, or they make an appeal to empathy even though that relies on the assumption of empathy having objective truths written in it. Then, you have to wonder who gave us these objective truths. Who wrote this objectively true moral assumption like, "causing suffering is wrong" into our brain? Evolution doesn't help the problem. It relies on the assumption that evolution has moral authority over the world. The only logical precondition for this assumption that we could appeal to empathy is something that does have moral authority over the world. The logical precondition for an appeal to empathy is, therefore, God. This is because it requires a mind that has ultimate moral authority over the world. That is one of the attributes of God. What you are doing here is making moral assumptions. You assume Jaywalking to have a "crime severity" of 1, but murder a "crime severity" of 10 (I don't know if you actually think it's 10, but I am just trying to demonstrate). The problem is that this relies on arbitrary assumptions that you have come up with, so my counter-argument is this:
1. Objective moral judgments require the belief that you have moral authority over the world.
2. The answer to why we have objective moral authority over the world logically necessitates an infinitely moral being.
3. In the atheist worldview, there is no answer to the question of why we have some moral authority over the world. It is an arbitrary assumption.
Premise: Therefore, in the atheist worldview, morality is subjective.
Let's put this conclusion into a counter-argument.
1. You are making moral judgments about God's ethics and using them to come to an objective conclusion.
2. You cannot derive objective truths from subjective experiences
3. Morality, in your worldview, is a subjective experience
Therefore, you are using a subjective experience to come to an objective conclusion
Counter-argument: 1st counter-argument: "It is obvious that causing suffering is wrong". This is an appeal to what is obvious. It is basically another form of the personal incredulity fallacy. We cannot make an appeal to what seems to be, as what seems to be should still have a logical argument backing it up. If there is no logical argument backing it up, it is an arbitrary assumption you simply accept because it seems to be. It's another form of the personal incredulity fallacy because it finds the argument hard to believe, rather than providing a logical argument against the argument. Rather than logically breaking it down, it appeals to what is obvious. In the same way, the personal incredulity fallacy avoids logically deconstructing an argument by making an appeal to what is obvious to him/herself. "It just seems wrong".
2nd counter-argument: I believe it is obvious God exists. Does that mean he exists? Nope. I am appealing to subjective experience to make an objective conclusion.
Counter-argument: "So you believe causing suffering is right?" Nope. This is a strawman and an ad hominem. I believe causing suffering is wrong because it says it in the bible. I believe the Bible has moral authority over the world. I believe that because I believe it came from God, who has all moral authority over the world.
Counter-argument: 1st counter-argument: "Who gave God moral authority over the world?" Nothing. That is the definition of God in the first place. The definition of God, in my view, is someone who has knowledge of all objective logical truths and has knowledge of how to do anything. We believe that God is the embodiment of morality in the first place. To illustrate this better, we could look at the laws of logic. The laws of logic prescribe logic. This is because all objective truths stem from the laws of logic. I shall define logic as the key to all objective truths. This is not the dictionary definition, but I shall define logic as that for the sake of argument. Logic, the key to all objective truths, is defined as "logical" or "truthful". We could define logic as being "logical" or objectively "truthful" not because some outsider gave it the authority to have objective truths, but because it is the embodiment of truthfulness in and of itself. In the same sense, we define God as objectively "moral" because he is the embodiment of morality in the first place. This makes sense as the actual Greek translation of the word "sin" from the Bible quite literally means "missing the mark". Almost like missing the mark of what is truly moral, or missing the mark of God. Missing the mark of the embodiment of morality in the first place.
2nd counter-argument: This is a Tu Quoque fallacy and does not answer the counter-argument I raised above.
The sacred scriptures speak of the great magnitude of the perfect holiness and justice of the Eternal Lord God, who is the living God and He is a consuming fire. Hell is not the place described by various Christian denominations, where the devil and demons torment people as if it were their playground. On the contrary, an unimaginable punishment awaits Satan and the fallen angels.
For our God is a consuming fire.
Hebrews 12:29
Angels who did not stay in their place of power, but left the place where they were given to stay, are chained in a dark place. They will be there until the day they stand before God to be judged.
Jude 6
God did not hold back from punishing the angels who sinned, but sent them down to hell. They are to be kept there in the deep hole of darkness until they stand before Him Who judges them.
2 Peter 2:4
“Then the King will say to those on His left side, ‘Go away from Me! You are guilty! Go into the fire that lasts forever. It has been made ready for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:41
Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:10
Luke 16:19-31 is no parable or make believe story. Christ spoke truth about two real men. After their death, both Lazarus and the rich man were taken to a good and bad location. The rich man did not stay in some unconscious state, for he was "tormented in this flame" (Luke 16:24).
Moreover, while he was in torment, his brothers were yet alive on the earth, and he knew it and so did Abraham (Luke 16:27-31). The rich man pleaded with Abraham to send Lazarus to warn them of their soon coming fate. The rich man knew well they would not be sleeping after they died. He knew well that they would experience the same fate he had, if they did not repent. For when the wicked die, they indeed lie down, but they lie down in torment (Isaiah 50:11). The rich man has known this truth for many years. [For other pertinent Scriptures for the righteous, see 2 Corinthians 5:1-8; Philippians 1:21-24; and 1 Thessalonians 5:10.]
Hello Joshua that is such a great question! First and foremost we need to realize that hell was never created for humans.
HELL WASN'T FOR MANKIND:
Matthew 25:41 says "then shall he say also unto them" (Jesus/God) "on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" God created hell/lake of fire for Satan and his followers. It was never God's design or desire that we go there! But because of Adam and Eve's sin back in the garden of eden, and sin carrying down to all humans after that we also would be sent there after death.
GOD"S HOLINESS
Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:". Now that we have that understood to answer your other question about sin or wrongdoings being measured and there being only one punishment for all crimes. Because God is holy and perfect and without sin, He can't be near it or around it. Imagine being so perfect and holy never knowing what it means or feels like to think, say or do anything remotely wrong?! That is who God is, and because of that sin is sin in His eyes, He has a perfect standard, we are human and so we measure wrong on a scale, compared to each other lying is better than murdering someone. We see them in different degrees, but God doesn't He doesn't judge based off of which one is worse, they all are equally bad! That's what makes it fair because there is no measure. Romans 3:10 says "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one." Romans 3:23 also says "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God:". When measured against our standard (humans) it does seem like you said infinitely unfair. But God's measurement is absolute holiness and perfection. We as humans are not that, so of course it would seem like that. Lying and murder are the same amount of bad, we just don't see it as that because in our minds lying doesn't seem that big of a deal, but it is. Again sin is sin is sin. But, (one of the biggest buts ever!)
SOLUTION:
Because God did not create hell for humans and doesn't want us to go there He made a way for us so that we won't go there once we die. It's why we celebrate Christmas and Easter, Jesus Christ! God sent His Son Jesus to be that way! Jesus came to earth as a human, experiencing and going through all that we've experienced. He suffered and was ridiculed mocked and made fun of. He went from being loved by many to hated by all. He started out lowly and poor. The only difference between us and Him was that He was still perfect and holy, and did not sin even during the hard times, Jesus Himself was tempted by Satan and resisted. Jesus paid the ultimate price by sacrificing Himeslf on the cross, bearing the wait of all our sins, every human being that has ever lived, is living and will live. He went from experiencing no sin and not knowing it, to becoming sin itself for us. 2 Corinthians 5:21 " For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." The only thing we have to do is except this free gift and payment God has given us, we just have to admit we're a sinner and trust in Him to save us, Romans 5:8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Rom. 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Rom. 10:9-10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, though shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
CONCLUSION:
Yes God is merciful and kind and loving, but He is also just and fair. There is a season for everything, God is long-suffering and merciful, but there comes a time when mercy is not needed, but rather judgement, God is a God of balance, and that is something I've come to learn and find out in my own personal life.
I hope that answers your questions and I also hope and pray you find an answer and that God shows you what to.
P.S. sorry for the book😬 and love your music!❤
I got 13 years of catholic school in NYC... First, you're taking things too literally. 2nd, catholic hell is different from protestant hell and they're both different from what's actually in the bible. There are contractions and discrepencies, just like with any 2000+ year old myths.
What you missed is the eternal now. If you approach spirituality from a materialistic perspective, like an accountant trying to balance the books, then probably Judaism might be a better fit🤣. The "weighing your balance of good and evil deeds" thing, it's a good way to teach children, like Santa's naughty or nice lists. There's some fear mongering to scare up a profit, but tgose are false prophets. IOW, the poeple who are always thinking about hell and the devil are satanists, just like the people who always think about alcohol are alcoholics, and gambling etc etc. It's actually funny - they're also the ones who see satanists everywhere🤣.
Christians focus on Jesus more than on hell, and follow Jesus' example. I learned that the hell teachings, there's a lot of fan fic in there.
Therefore I don't feel so bad avout adding to it... Ive learned that people can be in hell on earth. It's not a physical place. To the ancients, it was. Heaven was in the heavens, and the cavernous depths of hell were underground, literally. Well, that's not exactly true. It's also much more than a state of mind... it's your frame of being within all of existence. Many people are tormented throughout their existence. Some people seem to be blessed in the opposite direction, such serenity. For most people, they're neither in the deepest depths nor are they so exalted. You don't have anything to worry about, unless you see the people around you as miserable hell-beings🤣👹.
Now, please, I'm not advocating the newage "fake it til you make it" type of imaginary serenity and happiness. The guidelines for staying out of hell should probably be updated for 21st century Western realities. Of course, in this reality, the job would probably go to some hell-being who would try to take advantage of the situation for power and profit😂 but I have faith that it would somehow work out, despite ourselves.
I'd probably write even more, or differently (there's enough that I could write a book about this stuff) when in a different mood, fwiw. I should probably do that, instead of a writing so many comments😮
IOW, the infinities are like the "dividing by zero" in the quantum equations. It's the best easiest tool to try to keep people from acting like apes, and therefore to keep society afloat. But, we probably don't understand actual reality very much, and so our equations/laws are still a little clunky.