In ME2 during Tali's recruitment mission there was a plotline where a star was aging too quickly. It had something to do with 'dark energy' or 'dark matter'" . Someone or something was causing that. Maybe that could be part of the story of ME4
Also, in me2 in Illium, after completing a simple mission for her, Gianna Parasini, the internal affairs agent from me1 noveria, tells us that some people are intrested in dark energy
That was part of the original ME3 plot, that the Reapers harvesting was not to do with this dumb idea to stop a war between synthetics and organics (by waging war on organics and disallowing synthetics from existing, super stupid plan). Instead the idea was that the galaxy was dying due to the dark energy problem and it was related to Mass Effect, the Reapers harvest was to basically cultivate new species as fast as possible to come up with one that could be used, via biotics, to control the dark energy and reverse the destruction. Much more interesting motivation in my opinion if it could have been fleshed out properly. Sadly the lead writer left and the producer basically wrote the dumb ending we got alone.
@@jonsmith5058 Well that would have been INFINITELY better. They wouldn't be just some broken evil AI, but actually have a bigger purpose that we as living beings couldn't understand because we don't know exactly what dark matter and dark energy are. It would create a more "gray" conflict, and develop over a real scientific question as every scify should do.
@@thenot-so-smartfox4145 indeed, some scoff at the idea as dumber complaining it would make humanity special (as humans were the ones Reapers considered possible, hence the human reaper in ME2, now retconned again to stupid ideas that each reaper contains something that inside it). I would have loved this. Harbingers arrogance would be totally in line, rather than caretakers who are needlessly arrogant and evil, they maintain a status as lovecraftian beings who comprehend time on a scale of millenia to plan like this and really do see us as fodder to cultivate then harvest for their needs. Really great idea and would indeed make the ending much more interesting. Do you capitulate to the Reapers to save the galaxy or defy them and doom us all as all the stars go out?
They are very view in numbers when compared to the Reapers and the other species. Yes, they can brainwash organic beeings and Reapers because Reapers are partially organic, but they aren't so powerfull that their firepower and natural armor can rival those of the Reapers. They are still organic life forms which can be killed by conventional ways. Assuming they survived, the Geth would be the ones who are immune to indoctrination and with the Reaper upgrades they are superior to their former selfes in every way. As far as I know the Leviathans were almost whiped out by lesser beeings and became the first Reaper. Which means that no Reapers were needed to defeat them. This alone makes them far less menacing than the Reapers.
Btw, this is not just an option for the game. The Leviathans pretty much MUST do this. They still exist for sure, and their ONLY logical next step is to take back the galaxy. So it would be huge plot hole to NOT include them. Maybe it will be a DLC or side quest, or main villain, but the future of them MUST be addressed.
When I beat ME3, and shortly after I processed the ending, my next immediate thought was "Wait, what about the Leviathans?" I think they could do something like in ME1, Reapers were background villain until the end half and it was Saren and Geth that were main for the whole game. It wasn't until the end half you find out they were just pawns. Reapers replace with Leviathans and Saren and Geth replaced with other forces. Leviathans being more of a background role it wouldn't initially feel like ME1 and once it did, it would have a nostalgic feeling. This could set up for a series similar but could go in a different direction for ME trilogy. Regardless what they decide for the next ME, I would like to see the Leviathans come back. Whether that's in the next game or any future games if they are able to make any others after this up and coming game.
yeah and presuming they kept their numbers low to avoid the reapers will have to create a population boom to enforce their will on the galaxy i mean if they spread themselves thin they will eventually either die or be killed off.
@monke12354well , it was " that time " for the Reapers . 50.000 years past and they just did what they had planned (a long time ago ). They didnt really count on a superhero to save the galaxy .
I wouldn’t mind the leviathan returning in some form, however I don’t want them to be the big bad. As you said they’d be too reminiscent of the reapers. The threat wouldn’t be as grave and to give the new game its best chance it needs a new threat. Whether that threat is grounded, as in warmongering dictators and empire makers, or something smaller akin to how Saren was viewed prior to the reveal of the reapers in ME1, a rogue agent. It’s very likely that ME4/5 will start with a small threat/bad guy first before revealing the “prime mover” as it were.
The leviathans did lose to the reapers already. They technically are a lesser bad guy. As any species in the milky way would be as they all would have lost to the reapers if not for Sheppard
"Simply not as powerful as the Reapers"? You realize that Leviathan just struck a Reaper in orbit dead from beneath the ocean without lifting a finger right?
I actually don’t mind having less of a sense of urgency. I felt guilty in Mass Effect 3 every time I went on a side mission because it felt like I was letting innocent people die just so I could see all of the story. As an anxious person already, it made my anxiety spike. I don’t mind when the urgency is left for the ending missions because then I know I’m not going to have to put the controller down and sleep on my anxiety. I’ll just power through the end of the game.
Those leviathan said they were the apex race before the reaper threat and maybe some of them escaped to the nearest galaxy(Andromeda) as they were not able to stop the reapers. This could be a possibility to link the story to andromeda.
It actually would explain why there is the "Remnant" and Meridian PERHAPS they tried to prevent the harvest by ruining their previous Homeworlds in Andromeda and hide in Meridian but at the same time why creating the Angara, as bait? Could it be ... so the Leviathan can study and watch and strike back against the Reapers? Just a theory about could and would.
theres a lot that can link the 2. If you saved the ancient AI... if you defeated the Architects... if you let the Primus live... shit the next ME can still take place in Andromada even with the return of some MWG cast... especially if you went with the true ending of ME3 the synth ending. TBH i really want to know more about the ancient AI... who built it n why, why was it abandoned, what was its purpose etc... IMO i think it controls the Architects since Meridian controls the vaults. i also think Andromada is all artificial. I think the Meridian is essencially a Traveler which I highly doubt the Remnants built, i think the Remnants were built as maintanence and security bots by who ever actually built Meridian, the Vaults, and the Architects. My theory is that Meridian and its original ancient people traveled to a massive black hole to use its energy to power the architecs to create new viable worlds from scratch with the use of the Vaults, which are seed, DNA and mineral vaults. Also in this theory i believe the Meridian was created to hide from the Reepers. and the scourge is actually a defence system basically razor wire to slow down any scouting Reeper. I also think that when the Reepers were invading the MWG they were also invading every other galaxy too. Andromada or the original creators of Andromada had a "Shepard" as well but everyone actually listened to their Shepard and began building Meridian and the vaults in hopes to hide and evade the reepers in order to rebuild after the reeping of there unknown home galaxy... thus Andromada was born... I also think the builders of Andromada originated from the MWG... in other words 50,000 years ago humanity was told about the reepers, and they listened, so they built the Meridian and traveled to the nearest black hole to hide and create Andromada... I also have a theory that the benefactor might just be the Ancient AI essencially calling its people home to the Meridian and Andromada.
I think it's amazing how much potential a sequel to mass effect 3 will have. There is so much room for amazing stories to be told like: Results of a cured genofage, distrust of the asari due to them hiding prothean secrets for the own gain, the quarians and the geth, all this stuff with cerberus, dark energy, Andromeda, reaper tech, the rebuilding of a galaxy, leviathans, power vacuums and civil wars, and new mysteries and enemy's, ect. There's so much room for this to be the best mass effect game. But I really do think it all hinges on shepard and crew returning. Whether playable or not.
Makes sense given the fact that the Prothean’s VI on Thessia said that the Reapers were not the entities controlling the Cycles, but there’s another entity. Shepard asked him ‘so who’s the Master’. The VI said ‘unknown’, and i’m sure the Prothean race had no idea about the existence of the Leviathans. I want the leviathans on the new game, either as villain or side quests.
@@MrHulthen The only fact that makes me think that side quests are more likely are the numbers. As of now we know that there are just few leviathans, we saw only 3 of them. Are there more leviathans out there? If the answer is no, well.. no way they can face the entire galaxy (i think..?), else if yes.. damn that could be another Reapers-like war.
@@markolizzo8730 Nope. The Catalyst was created by the Leviathans. It is a fully synthetic Artificial Intelligence. Reapers are created by the Catalyst. They are organic and synthetic. Created from many dead alien races. Catalyst not Reaper. "Are there more leviathans out there?" In ME3 itself, it says that three Leviathans have been found. But in Codex ME1 it is written that the modern known races have explored the Milky Way only 1% out of 100%. That is, there can be many Leviathans on the unexplored 99%
That would be a straightforward decision. Other option is that a dominant race from previous cycle had a colony surviving somewhere far away from Mass Relays, so they were never found by the Reapers. Protheans are an obvious candidate for that role. We know they had multiple projects to survive the Reaper invasion, so it is entirely possible they had a surviving colony. They are also known to be a ruthless imperialist race. So if they return, they will likely believe that the rightful owner of the galaxy is them. And they have superior tech. It would also enable a storyline where future Javik needs to choose between his new friends, and his own people. But it doesn’t need to be mutually exclusive, if it is a whole new trilogy, then there is space for both the Protheans and the Leviathan. Other candidate for this role: Inusannon. Less obvious choice, but it would be cool nevertheless, and all game episodes beed at least 1 new race.
The biggest hurtle for the leviathan’s to return as the apex specie is most in command would know to destroy the leviathan orbs after returning to any Reaper controlled planet. But I would love to see them return in some way in the next game.
I don't know why this didn't occur to me years ago. It makes all the sense in the world(s). The Leviathan can be fighting the Protagonist through proxies, proxies that could be any race, any character, anywhere. There would be a lot of skepticism as those who are being controlled might not even be aware of it, and it might not be obvious who is under their control and who is not.. except (maybe) to our PC hero & team! I also believe that 'Element Zero (eezo)' will play an important role in how the Leviathan control their 'puppets.' They never have explained exactly what eezo is, or exactly what it is for, or where it came from. It could have hidden effects that we are not (yet) aware of.
Let’s not forget how the leviathan war asset is described in me3 either, teams of humans and potentially other races running around putting leviathan control orbs behind reaper lines. Who’s to say the leviathans didn’t take over some people then and maybe some orbs disappeared after the reapers were beaten?
I would love this game to be more about galactic politics and the infighting between species, then the kett somehow managed to breach the milky way and Andromeda galaxy together while the leviathan try to seize control
This scenario actually makes good sense and could work if the Leviathan were only IMPLIED to be the ones pulling the strings, in order to set up another sequel. Also, have Liara take over Cerberus and the "how did we miss this?" is not the Relay but rather it is the cloaked ship infiltrating to mess with her plans. Yes, make Liara a badass Sith Lord !
I'm down for the Leviathans to be the villain, BUT only if Shepard is the protagonist. They were tied to Shepard's story imo and Shepard should be the one to finish them.
@@White_Wrath Nah, Jacob is a love interest companion and XO and we play as female Vorcha. We also have Yahg pacifist counselor and (in) famous Biotic God as companions. Each with unique abilities and loyalty missions.
In my opinion Shepard is the only one who can pull the galaxy together against a threat and anyone else would not have the pull to stop a conflict especially Ryder
I doubt the Batarians will be a factor since 90% were wiped out during the reaper war. The surviving Batarians were already on Omega, or the few that got to the Citadel
Maybe the Leviathans will use a ‘new’ race they’ve been cultivating as their new slave warriors for the last 50,000-100,000 years and that’s the enemy will be what we’ll be fighting?
Agreed they had millions of years and hundreds, thousands or hundreds of thousands of cycles to stage a comeback or leave the Milky Way. I think their goals and ambitions are far beyond that of the organic races.
I would actually like the main villian to be more personal, (not world ending stakes, but personal ones) and... well, here me out, Liara fits that role. I've been replaying the trilogy again and I've noticed something, Liara doesn't handle loss very well. Example: ME1- Liara's own mother leaves her to die and she pushes that feeling aside, barely mentioning that it even happened. And of course she is "pretty much" forced to kill her own mother. ME2- Liara's actions as an agent of the shadow broker and in the DLC also show this habit of pushing away and almost hiding all the problems (Shepard pretty much as to force it out of her in the dlc with that paragon interrupt). With her determination to save her friend (forgot his name) overshadowing any concerns for others around her. She only really opens up at the end of the dlc because she has everthing. ME3- Liara is probably the most together in ME3 concidering that she does have everything she wants... until her home gets destroyed, this we actually she how that loss effects her but she still has to push her feelings aside because of a sense of responsibility. If you romance Liara, she will also express a desire to leave everything behind and live a quiet life. I feel like in ME4/5, all that Trauma should finally hit her and she does everything she can to gain any sense of control and has the player, it is our job to stop (and by proxy of choice) save HER, not the galaxy.
My plan to reconcile ME1-3 and MEA is the Andromeda Initative Lie. The Benefactor and select leaders know that the trip will only take 6 months, not 600 years. At light speed, the journey is 200 million years. So difference between 600 years and 6 months is a decimal point change. This is why Jien Garson was murdered, because after the Nexus hit the Scourge, she was ready to abort, tell the secret, and return. It's how I would reconcile the two timelines. I think the Leviathan idea is pretty interesting.
2.5 million. Andromeda and the Milky Way are 2.5 million light years apart, 765 kiloparsecs. With a disc diameter of about 50 kpc, or 150k-ish light years. Milky Way is about 27 kpc in diameter, or 90k-ish light years. So if it only takes a few minutes to get from Hades Gamma to Shrike Abyssal, for the sake of x let's call that trip 1 hour. If x=1 hour (x=27 kpc distance travel time from HG to SA), then y=28.3 hours (765/27=y). In the dark space between both galaxies, you can only fit 14.5 Andromeda galaxies or 30 Milky Way galaxies once you account for the distances from galactic center to edge. If you account for x=1 being dependent on ME relays being at least paired to work, it would have taken the Reapers or Leviathan almost 2 extinction cycles to set the farthest relays. Unless there's a function in the relays to act as a one-way cannon with a braking mechanism on the launched vessel. It's a plausible hypothesis, but you'd have two hard scaling problems. 600 years is scaled way too high, 28 hours is scaled way too low. Of course, none of this explains why the elevators were so damn slow.
I don't think Batarians will be the same going forward. Their population after the alpha relay explosion is miniscule, so maybe they will have a paradigm shift.
Imo, the leviathans returning seems too much like "been there, done that." As for Shepard retuning possibly, it's possible that cerberus clones him each time they're close to death. They brought Shepard back from death in me2, it wouldn't be surprising if they have some of his dna in a freezer somewhere
There are a few things that could be interesting one is that it’s mentioned a few times in the original trilogy is that most of the relays haven’t been used, which means the trilogy is based in a small part of the Milky Way, who knows what could be waiting past the majority of the relays? Could be a whole different citadel with their own council and races. Two, with the relays gone (if the destruction) end becomes canon then all the races essentially get sent back to the space dark ages, as all of them progressed along the lines set for them by the Protheans, who in turn progressed via what the Reapers had built. (Not to mention the entire galactic fleet would all be stuck in the Sol system) Both of these leave all the current races pretty vulnerable, and it would be easy for any antagonist to take advantage of. Finally, if there is an Andromeda link, I think there maybe be some sort of Prothean-Kett link. Outside of the visual similarity, I remember Javik saying “we were one empire consisting of many subjects, all calling our selves Prothean” and when pressed by Shepard he said they had “No Choice” which sounds exactly like how the Kett would just absorb other races. Javik says that they did this to fight the machines in the Metacon war, could those machines have been the Remnant? Javik says they had surpassed the Protheans, who were way more advanced than any of the current races which means they would be maybe nearly as advanced as the Reapers. There is nothing to say that the reapers and their AI wouldn’t of left the Milky Way before or during the Reaper invasion, since they were so advanced it wouldn’t have been difficult. Anyway will be interesting to find out just hope whatever it is it doesn’t ruin the trilogy or its legacy.
What if, Shepard has to essentislly reunite the galaxy after the Relays were fixed from different groups rising into power, the remnants of Cerberus, occults of the Leviathans, different krogans rising up. Idk just food for thought
I had thoughts along those lines myself when I heard about the new game. The main reason I only chose the synthesis ending once and chose the destroy ending as my ultimate final ending was because any other choice would lock in the Levitations obviously flawed reasoning that was completely born out of their blind arrogance fully displayed by their complete refusal to admit much less accept responsibility for the fact that they, as Shepard pointed out, like the “ lesser races “ fell into the same trap of creating a synthetic being to solve their problem and had themselves fallen victim to their own creation unleashing the Reapers on the Milky Way. The Leviathan angle opens up countless possibilities.
I started to play Andromeda this week with some mods. To me Andromeda has the most fun gameplay of any Mass Effect, I hope they keep this and dont go back to old start of cover shooter gameplay
If Shepard ain't the main character, the game dies, and so does a part of every player. Playing the game for 15 years as Shepard and then expecting gamers to play as anyone else would be complete indifference to the player's time investment and all achievements.
I find it hard to believe that the Leviathans would be in any way threatening to the Galaxy that defeated their own creations whom they hid from for millennia...
2:10 - the Batarians are in no shape to wage war with the Alliance, or with anyone for that matter since they were pretty much wiped out by the Reapers. Any remnant of their race would've been among the refugees on the Citadel.
I think this could really work thematically, but not with the threat coming from the Leviathans themselves but rather who might become their successors. As you said, dead Reaper tech is now scattered all over the place so there could be an arms race going on to see who can make use of it first and potentially dominate all the other races. The plot could center around the protag either helping humanity knock out their competitors or convincing the other races to live together in peace. The Leviathans could be manipulating things from the shadows but not directly getting involved, basically waiting to see who comes out on top.
Definitely unlikely to be the Batarians. I think there's about 3 of them left after the reapers decided to turn them into wallpaper paste. Leviathan sounds good. By which I mean ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING
Bruh let’s go. The leviathan are trying to remain the apex race and using the domination to put each race against each other. I love this. Let’s goooo!!!!
Romancing Miranda: Miranda: Promise me you won't die! Shepard: I already died once! [they bang later] If Shepard dies, so dies a part of every player, and that means the game dies. In another scene: Miranda tells Illusive man that Shepard is a bloody icon, and without him, no one will follow. That includes me.
BioWare could make it where the urgency is set upon trying to stop the war right before it happens. Like when in 1914, tensions suddenly bolted skyward when the Archduke was assassinated . There was still a slight chance to stop the war from ever happening but time ran out. The same thing could be applied here and all races are preparing to fight in a civil war because of a major tragedy. This leaves Shepard and their crew to stop it from happening.
The Reapers were technorganic and as such...powerful; the Leviathans are nowhere near the level of bad the Reapers were, they would need subservient races to do the leg work. It is quite possible Cerberus have become that subservient arm of the Leviathans and are doing their bidding, building a powerful new mass effect relay to control the entire galaxy and beyond. The only person the Leviathans fear is...Sheppard.
I honestly wouldn't doubt that Cerberus will be back in the next game. And the reason for this is my own theory and opinion and it's something that I've never seen mentioned or brought up. Cerberus was a 3-headed dog that guarded Hades. The Illusive Man was only one of those heads. Who are the other two heads? The question is rhetorical right now but, my theory is there are 2 more "heads" of Cerberus
It's an interesting idea. The Leviathan are no longer strong enough to dominate the galaxy as they once did but with the Reapers gone, they could slowly start to influence things again. It could take them thousands of years to get back to where they once were but we know Leviathan are very good at playing the long game. They've survived for a billion years or so, so a few thousand years to slowly rebuild their empire is no time at all for them.
You hit the nail on the head here. Much of what the leviathans said set of alarmbells in my head. They only engaged reapers coming to their planet, refuse to come to the surface and remain using their artifacts...and than ofcourse the ominous qoute. Considering that most tech plus the mass relays need to be rebuilt..;a lot of systems are therefore isolated and vulnerable to the leviathans influence. Hell they could even go the farcry 5 route where you have to beat a leviathan per set of systems to be able to free the people and rescources of said systems and rally them under you to eventually fight the eldest one...being the one shepard conversed with. I don't really mind whitch enemy they decide to put in ME4...all I want is that it isn't andromeda 1.2 ( I refuse to put ME in front of that abomination), that your decisions and outcomes of the last three games mattered (so hopefully an option to import your save from ME legendary edition), that we have our companions for one last ride (no new characters need to be added per se...there are plenty of upcomming characters that could jump in...e.g. kolyat wanting to contribute to his fathers legacy or help shepard for all what he has done for him and his father...mordin's student wanting to repent for his radical "treatment" and having heard that mordin perished wishing to redeem himself by saving shepard (maybe him now being the one rebuilding and revalidating shepard) and finally most important of all...THE MAIN PROTAGONIST OF MASS EFFECT IS COMMANDER SHEPARD. Not rider, not ashley, not james, not liara, not garrus, wrex, or tali...no commander S H E P A R D. If they fail seeing that than they don't understand their community at all...and with the main writer of the original 3 not being included in the project and now straight up leaving...I hold my heart in fear. Mass effect 4 can be the uncharted 4 of it's series. The one last ride before we retire shepard to a life of our choosing...in my case to a nicely built house on rannoch enjoying the sundown with a smiling unmasked Tali holding him and their child. Than and ONLY than andromeda has a chance to become it's own succes, because we retire our hero and look forward to the next one. We are commander shepard and this is our favorite franchise on the citadel.
The Leviathan and the Kett both feel like ready-made villains with potential. Of those two, I'd prefer the Leviathan as they feel far more mysterious and a more appropriate follow-up to the Reapers.
am I the only one who doesn't really want great stakes and a huge war. Just a wild west galaxy to explore, skirmishes here and there and try to make a living in this place. Ok, that might be more an MMO scenario..
One other fantastic plot twist that would tie the andromeda mass effect would be that the jaardans are the leviathans from the milky way and from this to go on
Leviathans have another advantage versus Reapers: as organic individuals they can be prone to opinions... diverging opinions I mean. So while some of them could be real baddies, wanting to dominate or destroy all other space-faring races, some could be more good-willed: condescending benevolence, but benevolence nonetheless. So the aim of the protagonist would be to make the "good" leviathan gain influence over the whole leviathan internal politics... Of course it would mean trusting them something would not be a wide spread idea. I like another point about this choice of villain: as far as we know, there are not a lot of people who have spoken with leviathans (and knew they were ;-) ) That would give us a good reason to bring back Shephard. That's a nice coincidence, isn't it ?
Brilliant video and exactly what I think should be coming down the tracks aswell. Makes perfect sense. I think a good potential method of bringing in the Andromeda Initiative is that the Milkey Way is currently undersiege by the Leviathans and the "lesser races" need outside assistance to fight them off. Cue in some stupid extra-galactic travel mechanic and boom! Bring in the AI.
what could work is your character would be called «the candidate» who gets to train and interact with shepards squad, whom later is cryogenically preserved by liara,awoken centuries later to make contact with andromeda.
For a weird reason, seeing an older Liara in the trailer and knowing asaris live over a 1000 years, it kind of makes me think the time period will be near the events of Andromeda. I don't know if the Ryder twins will be involved in it, but will be right around that time. And hey, i have no problem with that, i've been replaying Andromeda and i think the Ryder's make for an "ok" successor to Shepherd, just the characters around them aren't the best.
Here's the thing about mass effect: it's the game that let's you chose whether you want to explore some of the sickest world building work in Sci fi around, or whether you want to blow out aliens ribcages every single time you sit down to play the games. It's basically the ultimate hybrid between role playing and shooter. The big bad villain matters SO much in mass effect because it's gotta carry two entirely different genres at once.
I'm not sure we even need a big bad guy. The plot could revolve around the dark energy plotline or something with conflict arising from local warlords getting in the players way. Think back to the way they handled cerberus in me1 or the gangs in me2, but fleshed out a bit more. The looming threat could be an inevitable collapse of the galaxy itself, not another great evil
I've suspected them ever since I first played the Leviathan DLC on the day it released years ago. I don't know if MrHulthen has noticed, but the mural of the Leviathan on the planet where Shepard meets Ann Bryson is different when Shepard is talking to Leviathan in his/her mind. On the planet where Shepard must rescue Ann Bryson, the mural clearly shows a Leviathan using its mind controlling powers to induce migraines on the people below it. But when Shepard is speaking to Leviathan, he shows Shepard a different version of the mural (5:26), of the people below the Leviathan not trying to fight it or suffering from the headaches that come with being mind controlled, which shows the Leviathan is trying to sugarcoat how his race treated "lesser" species.
I remember the first time I played the leviathan dlc. It was much more spooky than I anticipated. And yes, without an enemy to hide from, I can see the Fallen Empire of leviathans reasserting their dominance.
Personally, I like the idea of the power vacuum post-Reaper War. But, without the Leviathan threat as I've grown tired of the World/Galaxy ending threats and they would more than likely just be a lesser version of the Reapers ultimately. With a power vacuum and a highly shattered order to the Milkyway Galaxy. It makes sense that others would rise up with their own goals in mind for the future when the council is truly at it's weakest and if Shepard is alive in the next Mass Effect. How would Shepard approach this new post-Reaper Galaxy?
I figured they were going to tie together the benefactor(Who I have always believed to be an AI, whether geth/starchild idk) Possibly the SAM implant since it would have existed in the milky way as well. This would allow for a secondary variant of the synthesis ending, a modified one where everyone slowly agrees to the meld, like the Quarians and Geth do in the peace ending or SAM and Ryder. Humans developing based off Geth AI would be something I would definitely see possible, even them resurrecting them by rebuilding their code after the catalyst. However when I heard your take on the Leviathans coming back I thought it would be possible that the way Leviathans control could be countered by a SAM Implant in theory since it could prevent the signal from changing your brain.
Leviathan is a likely option, however I don’t want that. They really are too close to what the Reapers offered. It would be more interesting to have a new threat. Perhaps another species that had been culled by the Reapers, one that was just faintly hinted at during the main campaigns of the game.
It's cannon Shepherd is still alive so the commander can make a return. As for Andromeda they can't connect the two as Andromeda takes place hundreds of years after the original trilogy. The Andromeda Initiative left before the Reaper invasion but were in cryo sleep for hundreds of years.
I'm sorry but Shepherd should be dead. If they are indeed going with the destroy ending this is going to be total nonsense. There is litteraly no freaking way that Shepherd should be alive. The only way to make it legit is through the indoctrination theory
I love this idea for the next Mass Effect game. I want to see the Normandy crew deal with the awkward diplomatic fallout as different factions develop and lash out against the leaders that they believe failed them (e.g. the council and the Alliance not acknowledging the Reaper threat, The Quarian Admirals causing an unnecessary war, the Krogans wanting to expand and conquer again) it would be amazing 😁
I have a feeling there will be Cerberus splinter factions in the next game too now that the illusive man is dead it’s a lot of opportunities for new factions and villains
Your idea makes total sense, I'd love to play that game. They could create urgency by having you take part in the war you described, having teammates killed, watching battalions of soldiers get violently destroyed, seeing civilians die. Protagonist loses faith in the institutions of the Systems Alliance, and begins to suspect the war is being fought for reasons other than those given by the SA government. He starts considering the validity of the conspiracy theories that are sometimes discussed on dark corners of the Extranet. His patriotism gets eroded. Humanity is losing the war, so Cerberus approaches the N7 protagonist to investigate. Each month that passes the death toll rises, more colleagues die in battle, locations get destroyed, the conflict gets worse and worse. The protagonist is consumed with a single minded drive to expose the true nature of what is happening, and in the end you find out that senior leadership on both sides of the war are being manipulated by the Leviathans. It could be set centuries after ME3. Maybe the Illusive Man has found a way to download himself into a synthetic body. Maybe Cerberus really does save humanity this time. Maybe the protagonist is 2IC rather than OC of a ship. Maybe the captain is also being manipulated and is throwing obstacles in your way. Eventually you have to kill him and take command. Maybe it's a mutiny. What if the ship's a big old cruiser rather than a frigate? Or maybe you start out commanding a small unit, doing missions out of a shuttle? The possibilities are endless.
Great video. Maybe the galactic community rventually decides to deal with the Leviathans like they did the Rachni, but some species/factions don't want them extinct
What i would add: The story is set over 700 hundred years after the reaper war, probably enough time for the Leviathans to grow again in the darkness, and the races to rebuild the mass relays. In the Andromeda Galaxy, the Initiative has now build up a working society, and the seltlements have grown to cities, they also started to build there own warships in case the kett return. Also they somehow figured out how to travel from galaxy to galaxy without sleeping for 600 years (maybe with remnant tech) and they ALSO got the Signal from the Milky Way. So Ryder and the other Pathfinders travel back to the Milky Way, to visit there homes and for negotiations, just to find out a new war is brewing, that soon spreads over both galaxys.
During the Story of Mass Effect there was a bit of Dialogue that said that every cycle was almost exactly the same as the last as if something was orchestrating galactic development, we had Haelstrom's Sun dying before it's time, the Raloi, the Virtual Aliens, and the disappearing objects in the Gas Giant Ploba, or maybe the Beings of Light and all the stuff from Mass Effect Abandoned (I Mean Andromeda) the point is there is plenty of story left to tell I just pray EDI and the Geth survived the Destroy ending.
About the urgency thing: I think there would be a lot of urgency starting at some point in this game. The urgency wouldn't be there in the sense of "the whole galaxy is going to be destroyed" like in ME 1-3, because this is a different kind of threat, but it would be absolutely there. At some point, we could notice that they want to overtake earth and humans but it wouldn't be so clear to everyone, similar to the reaper problem. We could find out that they are planning things to overtake one species after the next. No need to be as strong as the reapers and attack all at once. There would always be the suspense of taking over earth and others. It's hard to put everything I'm meaning here into a comment instead of recording it as a video, but I think you can imagine were I'm going with this. Making allies would be very important again, proving that we're on the side of race A, B, C, a lot of politics as in 1-3, a lot of exploration of the plans of the enemy etc. Learning new races who could be friend or foe. The connection to Andromeda, how will that play into the whole new conflict? That stuff could be easily dragged out into at least another trilogy, concentrating on different races, not necessarily one per game, but there's so much potential in this and we would have an urgent threat all the time. Could be even more interesting since they would be more active in some parts and less active in other parts of the galaxy. Maybe some would be on their side and so they would be an even bigger enemy with their allies. Don't underestimate that it could get really interesting when the enemy starts finding partners. They would become more and more powerful. We couldn't trust anyone at some point. So, yes, there could absolutely be an urgency of threat all the time. If BioWare does it right, they could absolutely pull that off. It doesn't have to be the same as the reapers. It would be more complex. Let's see!
I replayed the Mass Effect trilogy last summer on the remastered version and by God those games are possibly my personal favourite Sci-Fi media ever. My hype for the upcoming one after the disappointment of Andromeda is immeasurable. 🙏😌
I could see SAM playing an important role to both andromeda and Milky way. With the trailer hinting of the destroy option, and SAM was unaffected by the destroy option. SAM could be the key to aiding the milky way in whatever conflicts or issues they will be facing in the story. Plus with SAM likely being the most advanced AI (assuming the story takes place hundreds of years in the future. The milky way society could once again be hesitant to accept SAM's help.
I like the idea of the violence trying to gain power and sewing confusion and war throughout the galaxy. They would make a great minor bad guy that there's a focus of the first two thirds of the game. Only to realize that there is a greater threat out there.
Holy hell, imagine it in the new ME game…you take down the leader villian, find out he was controlled by the Leviathan orb. Suddenly, you find yourself in the Leviathan hypno-realm, talking with them and seeing your companions aiming guns at each other while under their control. And then the Leviathans make them shoot and kill each other to make you understand that fighting them would be like fighting the sun (or one of them survives - insert a loyality/companion readiness meter here)…
The Leviathan could've been using those crystal balls to stage an attack once the crucible was fired, we could've been helping them stage a takeover through the Leviathan DLC.
i suspect another threat maybe a race who had developed a symbiotic relationship with the reapers who were not worth eliminating or indoctrinating or converting to husks could appear as the new big bully of the galaxy
Just imagine Shepard gets brought back yet again for some reason you're charged with getting your hands on the most awesome Reaper tech imagineable and when you arrive you meet people like Garrus, Liara or Tali and everyone is like "Huh, so it has come to this" and boom, you have Pirates of the Carribean "everyone points thei weapon at everyone" situation at hand. It's probably not very likely, but I'm not sure if I could take something like that.
After the long speech that was added to the end of ME3 years ago, and never changed in Legendary, there is a new era of peace and cooperation, so that throws a wrench in your view of warring factions jockeying for power. Unless of course, Shepard imagined the whole ending.
What might be cool is the protheans as the enemy faction. Maybe they cast themselves forward in time and are tying to conquer the galaxy again to unify against the reapers they think are still alive and coming
There are a lot of Mass Effect fans waiting in anticipation. Fans love the games for a variety of reasons. I personally loved it for the story, and shooter elements. I know others like character and weapon upgrade paths, I think Andromeda even involved crafting. Many like the exploration part of the games. My fear, from seeing the poster, and the relatively small craft compared to the SR2, is that it will be heavy on exploration and crafting. The hero, it is my personal wish, to be on another "save the galaxy" mission. Playing Shepard, I think gave every player a bit of an ego boost, at least during game play. A sense of importance, a sense of notoriety. Playing a session as Shepard makes the player feel a little pumped. Ryder, in Andromeda, was just some young adult that fell into his job, because his Dad died. The male character also sounded like a talk show host, like Ryan Seacrest. He felt very "plastic". Personally, I feel invested in my Shepard character. If they could some how have a story line where Liara brings him back the way Cerberus did in ME2, I'd be elated. The Leviathans could pose a galaxy wide threat this time. The sparkly globes they distributed through out the galaxy could turn populations in to thralls. Not unlike the Husks. But, less zombie like, and far more incognito. Meaning, like the indoctrinated, they would be difficult to detect. Perhaps one, hiding in the hero's own crew. I hope its not a bunch of walk around, scan and catalog stuff. If I want that I can play No Man's Sky. This has to be an ADVENTURE. Alliances, friendships, romances. MrHulthen, you are absolutely right. The leviathans should be the next big bad. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
my top 2 bets are on Cerberus with a combo of Reaper and Remanent tech or Harbinger in a different/mortal body and with a team of unresolved villains like Wreave and Xen.
this could be very well the case, and now that i think about it the Leviathan could also be the mysterious Benefactor from Andromeda. it'd be the perfect tie-in for both games and since Liara was helping Ryder this could be the 'how did we miss this' moment we hear in the audio.
As for me some kind of future danger in the galaxy can be Scourge from ME:Andromeda (that can explain why we have fragments in the trailer), but of course Leviathans can be good secondary antagonists which we must defeat in the same time.
![Lp. Точка Невозврата #10 СОЕДИНЕНИЕ УСТАНОВЛЕНО... [Другой Бункер] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c4b5fWH-0qQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Lp. Точка Невозврата #10 СОЕДИНЕНИЕ УСТАНОВЛЕНО... [Другой Бункер] • Майнкрафт](/img/tr.png)
In ME2 during Tali's recruitment mission there was a plotline where a star was aging too quickly. It had something to do with 'dark energy' or 'dark matter'" . Someone or something was causing that. Maybe that could be part of the story of ME4
Yep lots of interesting stuff like this could make for a compelling story to compete with the reapers.
Also, in me2 in Illium, after completing a simple mission for her, Gianna Parasini, the internal affairs agent from me1 noveria, tells us that some people are intrested in dark energy
That was part of the original ME3 plot, that the Reapers harvesting was not to do with this dumb idea to stop a war between synthetics and organics (by waging war on organics and disallowing synthetics from existing, super stupid plan).
Instead the idea was that the galaxy was dying due to the dark energy problem and it was related to Mass Effect, the Reapers harvest was to basically cultivate new species as fast as possible to come up with one that could be used, via biotics, to control the dark energy and reverse the destruction. Much more interesting motivation in my opinion if it could have been fleshed out properly.
Sadly the lead writer left and the producer basically wrote the dumb ending we got alone.
@@jonsmith5058 Well that would have been INFINITELY better. They wouldn't be just some broken evil AI, but actually have a bigger purpose that we as living beings couldn't understand because we don't know exactly what dark matter and dark energy are. It would create a more "gray" conflict, and develop over a real scientific question as every scify should do.
@@thenot-so-smartfox4145 indeed, some scoff at the idea as dumber complaining it would make humanity special (as humans were the ones Reapers considered possible, hence the human reaper in ME2, now retconned again to stupid ideas that each reaper contains something that inside it).
I would have loved this.
Harbingers arrogance would be totally in line, rather than caretakers who are needlessly arrogant and evil, they maintain a status as lovecraftian beings who comprehend time on a scale of millenia to plan like this and really do see us as fodder to cultivate then harvest for their needs.
Really great idea and would indeed make the ending much more interesting.
Do you capitulate to the Reapers to save the galaxy or defy them and doom us all as all the stars go out?
With the Reapers gone the leviathan don't have any reason to stay hidden
They are very view in numbers when compared to the Reapers and the other species.
Yes, they can brainwash organic beeings and Reapers because Reapers are partially organic, but they aren't so powerfull that their firepower and natural armor can rival those of the Reapers. They are still organic life forms which can be killed by conventional ways.
Assuming they survived, the Geth would be the ones who are immune to indoctrination and with the Reaper upgrades they are superior to their former selfes in every way.
As far as I know the Leviathans were almost whiped out by lesser beeings and became the first Reaper. Which means that no Reapers were needed to defeat them. This alone makes them far less menacing than the Reapers.
Btw, this is not just an option for the game. The Leviathans pretty much MUST do this. They still exist for sure, and their ONLY logical next step is to take back the galaxy.
So it would be huge plot hole to NOT include them.
Maybe it will be a DLC or side quest, or main villain, but the future of them MUST be addressed.
Exactly. It's not a guess, it's a required plotline.
Yeah but remember most of them are dead and they need the artifacts to have influence.
When I beat ME3, and shortly after I processed the ending, my next immediate thought was "Wait, what about the Leviathans?" I think they could do something like in ME1, Reapers were background villain until the end half and it was Saren and Geth that were main for the whole game. It wasn't until the end half you find out they were just pawns. Reapers replace with Leviathans and Saren and Geth replaced with other forces. Leviathans being more of a background role it wouldn't initially feel like ME1 and once it did, it would have a nostalgic feeling. This could set up for a series similar but could go in a different direction for ME trilogy. Regardless what they decide for the next ME, I would like to see the Leviathans come back. Whether that's in the next game or any future games if they are able to make any others after this up and coming game.
yeah and presuming they kept their numbers low to avoid the reapers will have to create a population boom to enforce their will on the galaxy i mean if they spread themselves thin they will eventually either die or be killed off.
@monke12354well , it was " that time " for the Reapers . 50.000 years past and they just did what they had planned (a long time ago ). They didnt really count on a superhero to save the galaxy .
I wouldn’t mind the leviathan returning in some form, however I don’t want them to be the big bad. As you said they’d be too reminiscent of the reapers. The threat wouldn’t be as grave and to give the new game its best chance it needs a new threat. Whether that threat is grounded, as in warmongering dictators and empire makers, or something smaller akin to how Saren was viewed prior to the reveal of the reapers in ME1, a rogue agent.
It’s very likely that ME4/5 will start with a small threat/bad guy first before revealing the “prime mover” as it were.
The leviathans did lose to the reapers already. They technically are a lesser bad guy. As any species in the milky way would be as they all would have lost to the reapers if not for Sheppard
do
"Simply not as powerful as the Reapers"? You realize that Leviathan just struck a Reaper in orbit dead from beneath the ocean without lifting a finger right?
I actually don’t mind having less of a sense of urgency. I felt guilty in Mass Effect 3 every time I went on a side mission because it felt like I was letting innocent people die just so I could see all of the story. As an anxious person already, it made my anxiety spike. I don’t mind when the urgency is left for the ending missions because then I know I’m not going to have to put the controller down and sleep on my anxiety. I’ll just power through the end of the game.
Agreed!
Ja, like in ME2 you could fuck around as a lawless lone-wolf, sort of. You cant do that in ME3.I enjoyed ME2 mainly because of that aspect.
Just accept it. Feeling anxious is a great emotion given Mass Effect 3's setting. Video games are meant to feed you certain emotions for immersion.
It's like how you literally only have Legion around for 1 mission if you want to save your crew in the previous game.
Bruh I was like"yeah let me retrieve some random turian banner or liberating omega 4, I'll deal with the saving the galaxy later"😂😂
Those leviathan said they were the apex race before the reaper threat and maybe some of them escaped to the nearest galaxy(Andromeda) as they were not able to stop the reapers. This could be a possibility to link the story to andromeda.
It actually would explain why there is the "Remnant" and Meridian PERHAPS they tried to prevent the harvest by ruining their previous Homeworlds in Andromeda
and hide in Meridian but at the same time why creating the Angara, as bait? Could it be ... so the Leviathan can study and watch and strike back against the Reapers?
Just a theory about could and would.
My theory is the mobile mass relay in the teaser is actually the leviathans controlling humanity in order to build a way out of the milky way.
theres a lot that can link the 2.
If you saved the ancient AI... if you defeated the Architects... if you let the Primus live... shit the next ME can still take place in Andromada even with the return of some MWG cast... especially if you went with the true ending of ME3 the synth ending.
TBH i really want to know more about the ancient AI... who built it n why, why was it abandoned, what was its purpose etc...
IMO i think it controls the Architects since Meridian controls the vaults.
i also think Andromada is all artificial.
I think the Meridian is essencially a Traveler which
I highly doubt the Remnants built, i think the Remnants were built as maintanence and security bots by who ever actually built Meridian, the Vaults, and the Architects.
My theory is that Meridian and its original ancient people traveled to a massive black hole to use its energy to power the architecs to create new viable worlds from scratch with the use of the Vaults, which are seed, DNA and mineral vaults.
Also in this theory i believe the Meridian was created to hide from the Reepers. and the scourge is actually a defence system basically razor wire to slow down any scouting Reeper.
I also think that when the Reepers were invading the MWG they were also invading every other galaxy too.
Andromada or the original creators of Andromada had a "Shepard" as well but everyone actually listened to their Shepard and began building Meridian and the vaults in hopes to hide and evade the reepers in order to rebuild after the reeping of there unknown home galaxy... thus Andromada was born...
I also think the builders of Andromada originated from the MWG...
in other words 50,000 years ago humanity was told about the reepers, and they listened, so they built the Meridian and traveled to the nearest black hole to hide and create Andromada...
I also have a theory that the benefactor might just be the Ancient AI essencially calling its people home to the Meridian and Andromada.
I think it's amazing how much potential a sequel to mass effect 3 will have. There is so much room for amazing stories to be told like:
Results of a cured genofage, distrust of the asari due to them hiding prothean secrets for the own gain, the quarians and the geth, all this stuff with cerberus, dark energy, Andromeda, reaper tech, the rebuilding of a galaxy, leviathans, power vacuums and civil wars, and new mysteries and enemy's, ect.
There's so much room for this to be the best mass effect game. But I really do think it all hinges on shepard and crew returning. Whether playable or not.
Makes sense given the fact that the Prothean’s VI on Thessia said that the Reapers were not the entities controlling the Cycles, but there’s another entity. Shepard asked him ‘so who’s the Master’. The VI said ‘unknown’, and i’m sure the Prothean race had no idea about the existence of the Leviathans.
I want the leviathans on the new game, either as villain or side quests.
Sidequests would be fine aswell! However, they're such a huge presence that it would be strange not having them take some form of center stage
@@MrHulthen The only fact that makes me think that side quests are more likely are the numbers. As of now we know that there are just few leviathans, we saw only 3 of them. Are there more leviathans out there? If the answer is no, well.. no way they can face the entire galaxy (i think..?), else if yes.. damn that could be another Reapers-like war.
"Shepard asked him ‘so who’s the Master’."
Catalyst
@@SeverusHunt Reapers and the Catalyst are essentially the same thing in this context.
@@markolizzo8730 Nope. The Catalyst was created by the Leviathans. It is a fully synthetic Artificial Intelligence. Reapers are created by the Catalyst. They are organic and synthetic. Created from many dead alien races.
Catalyst not Reaper.
"Are there more leviathans out there?"
In ME3 itself, it says that three Leviathans have been found.
But in Codex ME1 it is written that the modern known races have explored the Milky Way only 1% out of 100%. That is, there can be many Leviathans on the unexplored 99%
That would be a straightforward decision.
Other option is that a dominant race from previous cycle had a colony surviving somewhere far away from Mass Relays, so they were never found by the Reapers. Protheans are an obvious candidate for that role. We know they had multiple projects to survive the Reaper invasion, so it is entirely possible they had a surviving colony. They are also known to be a ruthless imperialist race. So if they return, they will likely believe that the rightful owner of the galaxy is them. And they have superior tech.
It would also enable a storyline where future Javik needs to choose between his new friends, and his own people.
But it doesn’t need to be mutually exclusive, if it is a whole new trilogy, then there is space for both the Protheans and the Leviathan.
Other candidate for this role: Inusannon. Less obvious choice, but it would be cool nevertheless, and all game episodes beed at least 1 new race.
Everytime I'm feeling down I watch your Mass effect videos to be happy
The biggest hurtle for the leviathan’s to return as the apex specie is most in command would know to destroy the leviathan orbs after returning to any Reaper controlled planet. But I would love to see them return in some way in the next game.
I don't know why this didn't occur to me years ago. It makes all the sense in the world(s).
The Leviathan can be fighting the Protagonist through proxies, proxies that could be any race, any character, anywhere. There would be a lot of skepticism as those who are being controlled might not even be aware of it, and it might not be obvious who is under their control and who is not.. except (maybe) to our PC hero & team!
I also believe that 'Element Zero (eezo)' will play an important role in how the Leviathan control their 'puppets.' They never have explained exactly what eezo is, or exactly what it is for, or where it came from. It could have hidden effects that we are not (yet) aware of.
Leviathan control people through the artifacts. Those green glowing spheres. 😊
Amazing video 🙏 The last light in the abyss of no mass effect content. I can’t wait to see some solid information!
Let’s not forget how the leviathan war asset is described in me3 either, teams of humans and potentially other races running around putting leviathan control orbs behind reaper lines. Who’s to say the leviathans didn’t take over some people then and maybe some orbs disappeared after the reapers were beaten?
I would love this game to be more about galactic politics and the infighting between species, then the kett somehow managed to breach the milky way and Andromeda galaxy together while the leviathan try to seize control
I love that but let’s just let Andromeda rot over in that lil corner
@Palafico3 I agree I was one of the few people who didn't hate it. It definitely wasn't on the same level of og, but it was fun and interesting
This scenario actually makes good sense and could work if the Leviathan were only IMPLIED to be the ones pulling the strings, in order to set up another sequel. Also, have Liara take over Cerberus and the "how did we miss this?" is not the Relay but rather it is the cloaked ship infiltrating to mess with her plans. Yes, make Liara a badass Sith Lord !
I'm down for the Leviathans to be the villain, BUT only if Shepard is the protagonist. They were tied to Shepard's story imo and Shepard should be the one to finish them.
Or finish in them😏
Shepard is dead and now Jacob must take his place.
i hope it is shepard in the next game as the Player character and retcon the ending of ME3, it still leaves a bad taste lol
@@White_Wrath Nah, Jacob is a love interest companion and XO and we play as female Vorcha.
We also have Yahg pacifist counselor and (in) famous Biotic God as companions. Each with unique abilities and loyalty missions.
@@White_Wrath he’s not dead
Really interesting angle. But I think going such a route would be amazing to explore. Loved the vid!
In my opinion Shepard is the only one who can pull the galaxy together against a threat and anyone else would not have the pull to stop a conflict especially Ryder
Ryder's still stuck on figuring out the mystery ingredient in peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
@@masterofpuppers7963The pathfinder
Ryder barely has the respect of his own crew.
I doubt the Batarians will be a factor since 90% were wiped out during the reaper war. The surviving Batarians were already on Omega, or the few that got to the Citadel
Mmmm i wont believe that Leviathan would be back. they need something new
Maybe the Leviathans will use a ‘new’ race they’ve been cultivating as their new slave warriors for the last 50,000-100,000 years and that’s the enemy will be what we’ll be fighting?
Agreed they had millions of years and hundreds, thousands or hundreds of thousands of cycles to stage a comeback or leave the Milky Way. I think their goals and ambitions are far beyond that of the organic races.
I would actually like the main villian to be more personal, (not world ending stakes, but personal ones) and... well, here me out, Liara fits that role. I've been replaying the trilogy again and I've noticed something, Liara doesn't handle loss very well. Example:
ME1- Liara's own mother leaves her to die and she pushes that feeling aside, barely mentioning that it even happened. And of course she is "pretty much" forced to kill her own mother.
ME2- Liara's actions as an agent of the shadow broker and in the DLC also show this habit of pushing away and almost hiding all the problems (Shepard pretty much as to force it out of her in the dlc with that paragon interrupt). With her determination to save her friend (forgot his name) overshadowing any concerns for others around her. She only really opens up at the end of the dlc because she has everthing.
ME3- Liara is probably the most together in ME3 concidering that she does have everything she wants... until her home gets destroyed, this we actually she how that loss effects her but she still has to push her feelings aside because of a sense of responsibility. If you romance Liara, she will also express a desire to leave everything behind and live a quiet life.
I feel like in ME4/5, all that Trauma should finally hit her and she does everything she can to gain any sense of control and has the player, it is our job to stop (and by proxy of choice) save HER, not the galaxy.
The new villain in the next ME will obviously be Niftu Cal-the biotic god!
CHAAARGE!!
My plan to reconcile ME1-3 and MEA is the Andromeda Initative Lie. The Benefactor and select leaders know that the trip will only take 6 months, not 600 years. At light speed, the journey is 200 million years. So difference between 600 years and 6 months is a decimal point change. This is why Jien Garson was murdered, because after the Nexus hit the Scourge, she was ready to abort, tell the secret, and return. It's how I would reconcile the two timelines.
I think the Leviathan idea is pretty interesting.
2.5 million. Andromeda and the Milky Way are 2.5 million light years apart, 765 kiloparsecs. With a disc diameter of about 50 kpc, or 150k-ish light years. Milky Way is about 27 kpc in diameter, or 90k-ish light years.
So if it only takes a few minutes to get from Hades Gamma to Shrike Abyssal, for the sake of x let's call that trip 1 hour. If x=1 hour (x=27 kpc distance travel time from HG to SA), then y=28.3 hours (765/27=y).
In the dark space between both galaxies, you can only fit 14.5 Andromeda galaxies or 30 Milky Way galaxies once you account for the distances from galactic center to edge.
If you account for x=1 being dependent on ME relays being at least paired to work, it would have taken the Reapers or Leviathan almost 2 extinction cycles to set the farthest relays. Unless there's a function in the relays to act as a one-way cannon with a braking mechanism on the launched vessel.
It's a plausible hypothesis, but you'd have two hard scaling problems. 600 years is scaled way too high, 28 hours is scaled way too low.
Of course, none of this explains why the elevators were so damn slow.
I don't think Batarians will be the same going forward. Their population after the alpha relay explosion is miniscule, so maybe they will have a paradigm shift.
The alpha relay explosion only destroyed one of their colonies, not their entire empire
@@okbro3524 but it is implied that they recieved the brunt of the atack, hacket even said that the batarians are likely history
Imo, the leviathans returning seems too much like "been there, done that." As for Shepard retuning possibly, it's possible that cerberus clones him each time they're close to death. They brought Shepard back from death in me2, it wouldn't be surprising if they have some of his dna in a freezer somewhere
They had a whole dlc dedicated to why thats a really bad idea.
@@michaellarocca4879 a dlc on why the leviathans returning is bad? Which one is that exactly ?
@@michaellarocca4879 well, let's hope they won't need spare organs or body parts
Your character could become the villain that is something we hardly ever see.
There are a few things that could be interesting one is that it’s mentioned a few times in the original trilogy is that most of the relays haven’t been used, which means the trilogy is based in a small part of the Milky Way, who knows what could be waiting past the majority of the relays? Could be a whole different citadel with their own council and races.
Two, with the relays gone (if the destruction) end becomes canon then all the races essentially get sent back to the space dark ages, as all of them progressed along the lines set for them by the Protheans, who in turn progressed via what the Reapers had built. (Not to mention the entire galactic fleet would all be stuck in the Sol system)
Both of these leave all the current races pretty vulnerable, and it would be easy for any antagonist to take advantage of.
Finally, if there is an Andromeda link, I think there maybe be some sort of Prothean-Kett link. Outside of the visual similarity, I remember Javik saying “we were one empire consisting of many subjects, all calling our selves Prothean” and when pressed by Shepard he said they had “No Choice” which sounds exactly like how the Kett would just absorb other races. Javik says that they did this to fight the machines in the Metacon war, could those machines have been the Remnant? Javik says they had surpassed the Protheans, who were way more advanced than any of the current races which means they would be maybe nearly as advanced as the Reapers. There is nothing to say that the reapers and their AI wouldn’t of left the Milky Way before or during the Reaper invasion, since they were so advanced it wouldn’t have been difficult.
Anyway will be interesting to find out just hope whatever it is it doesn’t ruin the trilogy or its legacy.
What if, Shepard has to essentislly reunite the galaxy after the Relays were fixed from different groups rising into power, the remnants of Cerberus, occults of the Leviathans, different krogans rising up. Idk just food for thought
if mass effect, starfield, elder scrolls, gta all publish their masterpiece as we have hoped, i will finally have the reason to upgrade my 2018 pc
I had thoughts along those lines myself when I heard about the new game. The main reason I only chose the synthesis ending once and chose the destroy ending as my ultimate final ending was because any other choice would lock in the Levitations obviously flawed reasoning that was completely born out of their blind arrogance fully displayed by their complete refusal to admit much less accept responsibility for the fact that they, as Shepard pointed out, like the “ lesser races “ fell into the same trap of creating a synthetic being to solve their problem and had themselves fallen victim to their own creation unleashing the Reapers on the Milky Way. The Leviathan angle opens up countless possibilities.
I started to play Andromeda this week with some mods. To me Andromeda has the most fun gameplay of any Mass Effect, I hope they keep this and dont go back to old start of cover shooter gameplay
If Shepard ain't the main character, the game dies, and so does a part of every player.
Playing the game for 15 years as Shepard and then expecting gamers to play as anyone else would be complete indifference to the player's time investment and all achievements.
It’ll probably be trying to find Shepard to remake him again since he was able to unite the galaxy
I find it hard to believe that the Leviathans would be in any way threatening to the Galaxy that defeated their own creations whom they hid from for millennia...
2:10 - the Batarians are in no shape to wage war with the Alliance, or with anyone for that matter since they were pretty much wiped out by the Reapers. Any remnant of their race would've been among the refugees on the Citadel.
I think this could really work thematically, but not with the threat coming from the Leviathans themselves but rather who might become their successors. As you said, dead Reaper tech is now scattered all over the place so there could be an arms race going on to see who can make use of it first and potentially dominate all the other races. The plot could center around the protag either helping humanity knock out their competitors or convincing the other races to live together in peace. The Leviathans could be manipulating things from the shadows but not directly getting involved, basically waiting to see who comes out on top.
Definitely unlikely to be the Batarians. I think there's about 3 of them left after the reapers decided to turn them into wallpaper paste. Leviathan sounds good. By which I mean ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING
Bruh let’s go. The leviathan are trying to remain the apex race and using the domination to put each race against each other. I love this. Let’s goooo!!!!
I finally bought the N7 hoodie that I've wanted forever. Really love your content! Keep it up.
Thank you so much for the support ❤️
Ngl, a Mass Effect theory video was the best birthday present I could have asked for. You sir, are a true legend
Happy birthday!
Romancing Miranda:
Miranda: Promise me you won't die!
Shepard: I already died once!
[they bang later]
If Shepard dies, so dies a part of every player, and that means the game dies.
In another scene: Miranda tells Illusive man that Shepard is a bloody icon, and without him, no one will follow. That includes me.
BioWare could make it where the urgency is set upon trying to stop the war right before it happens. Like when in 1914, tensions suddenly bolted skyward when the Archduke was assassinated . There was still a slight chance to stop the war from ever happening but time ran out. The same thing could be applied here and all races are preparing to fight in a civil war because of a major tragedy. This leaves Shepard and their crew to stop it from happening.
I’ve always been intrigued by the leviathans; I would love to see and learn more about them. Greeat vid !
This sounds like a Star Wars Old Republic type thing: The real enemy lying in wait.
Interesting and well put as always. If done well this could be a great story for the next game. Bioware should just hire you!
The Reapers were technorganic and as such...powerful; the Leviathans are nowhere near the level of bad the Reapers were, they would need subservient races to do the leg work. It is quite possible Cerberus have become that subservient arm of the Leviathans and are doing their bidding, building a powerful new mass effect relay to control the entire galaxy and beyond. The only person the Leviathans fear is...Sheppard.
I honestly wouldn't doubt that Cerberus will be back in the next game. And the reason for this is my own theory and opinion and it's something that I've never seen mentioned or brought up. Cerberus was a 3-headed dog that guarded Hades. The Illusive Man was only one of those heads. Who are the other two heads? The question is rhetorical right now but, my theory is there are 2 more "heads" of Cerberus
It's an interesting idea. The Leviathan are no longer strong enough to dominate the galaxy as they once did but with the Reapers gone, they could slowly start to influence things again. It could take them thousands of years to get back to where they once were but we know Leviathan are very good at playing the long game. They've survived for a billion years or so, so a few thousand years to slowly rebuild their empire is no time at all for them.
You hit the nail on the head here. Much of what the leviathans said set of alarmbells in my head. They only engaged reapers coming to their planet, refuse to come to the surface and remain using their artifacts...and than ofcourse the ominous qoute. Considering that most tech plus the mass relays need to be rebuilt..;a lot of systems are therefore isolated and vulnerable to the leviathans influence. Hell they could even go the farcry 5 route where you have to beat a leviathan per set of systems to be able to free the people and rescources of said systems and rally them under you to eventually fight the eldest one...being the one shepard conversed with.
I don't really mind whitch enemy they decide to put in ME4...all I want is that it isn't andromeda 1.2 ( I refuse to put ME in front of that abomination), that your decisions and outcomes of the last three games mattered (so hopefully an option to import your save from ME legendary edition), that we have our companions for one last ride (no new characters need to be added per se...there are plenty of upcomming characters that could jump in...e.g. kolyat wanting to contribute to his fathers legacy or help shepard for all what he has done for him and his father...mordin's student wanting to repent for his radical "treatment" and having heard that mordin perished wishing to redeem himself by saving shepard (maybe him now being the one rebuilding and revalidating shepard) and finally most important of all...THE MAIN PROTAGONIST OF MASS EFFECT IS COMMANDER SHEPARD. Not rider, not ashley, not james, not liara, not garrus, wrex, or tali...no commander S H E P A R D. If they fail seeing that than they don't understand their community at all...and with the main writer of the original 3 not being included in the project and now straight up leaving...I hold my heart in fear.
Mass effect 4 can be the uncharted 4 of it's series. The one last ride before we retire shepard to a life of our choosing...in my case to a nicely built house on rannoch enjoying the sundown with a smiling unmasked Tali holding him and their child. Than and ONLY than andromeda has a chance to become it's own succes, because we retire our hero and look forward to the next one.
We are commander shepard and this is our favorite franchise on the citadel.
The Leviathan and the Kett both feel like ready-made villains with potential.
Of those two, I'd prefer the Leviathan as they feel far more mysterious and a more appropriate follow-up to the Reapers.
am I the only one who doesn't really want great stakes and a huge war. Just a wild west galaxy to explore, skirmishes here and there and try to make a living in this place. Ok, that might be more an MMO scenario..
I don’t want to see the leviathans be the BBEGs of the next game, I would love to explore the dark energy plot that was hinted in Tali’s mission.
I want to see the Hanar do sexy things with Asari matriarch's.
One other fantastic plot twist that would tie the andromeda mass effect would be that the jaardans are the leviathans from the milky way and from this to go on
Leviathans have another advantage versus Reapers: as organic individuals they can be prone to opinions... diverging opinions I mean. So while some of them could be real baddies, wanting to dominate or destroy all other space-faring races, some could be more good-willed: condescending benevolence, but benevolence nonetheless. So the aim of the protagonist would be to make the "good" leviathan gain influence over the whole leviathan internal politics... Of course it would mean trusting them something would not be a wide spread idea.
I like another point about this choice of villain: as far as we know, there are not a lot of people who have spoken with leviathans (and knew they were ;-) ) That would give us a good reason to bring back Shephard. That's a nice coincidence, isn't it ?
Brilliant video and exactly what I think should be coming down the tracks aswell. Makes perfect sense. I think a good potential method of bringing in the Andromeda Initiative is that the Milkey Way is currently undersiege by the Leviathans and the "lesser races" need outside assistance to fight them off. Cue in some stupid extra-galactic travel mechanic and boom! Bring in the AI.
what could work is your character would be called «the candidate» who gets to train and interact with shepards squad, whom later is cryogenically preserved by liara,awoken centuries later to make contact with andromeda.
For a weird reason, seeing an older Liara in the trailer and knowing asaris live over a 1000 years, it kind of makes me think the time period will be near the events of Andromeda. I don't know if the Ryder twins will be involved in it, but will be right around that time. And hey, i have no problem with that, i've been replaying Andromeda and i think the Ryder's make for an "ok" successor to Shepherd, just the characters around them aren't the best.
Here's the thing about mass effect: it's the game that let's you chose whether you want to explore some of the sickest world building work in Sci fi around, or whether you want to blow out aliens ribcages every single time you sit down to play the games. It's basically the ultimate hybrid between role playing and shooter.
The big bad villain matters SO much in mass effect because it's gotta carry two entirely different genres at once.
I'm not sure we even need a big bad guy. The plot could revolve around the dark energy plotline or something with conflict arising from local warlords getting in the players way.
Think back to the way they handled cerberus in me1 or the gangs in me2, but fleshed out a bit more. The looming threat could be an inevitable collapse of the galaxy itself, not another great evil
Oh yeah, gimme the Dark Energy plot any day
I've suspected them ever since I first played the Leviathan DLC on the day it released years ago. I don't know if MrHulthen has noticed, but the mural of the Leviathan on the planet where Shepard meets Ann Bryson is different when Shepard is talking to Leviathan in his/her mind. On the planet where Shepard must rescue Ann Bryson, the mural clearly shows a Leviathan using its mind controlling powers to induce migraines on the people below it. But when Shepard is speaking to Leviathan, he shows Shepard a different version of the mural (5:26), of the people below the Leviathan not trying to fight it or suffering from the headaches that come with being mind controlled, which shows the Leviathan is trying to sugarcoat how his race treated "lesser" species.
a post war galactic civil way was the premise of a great unfinished fan comic
I remember the first time I played the leviathan dlc. It was much more spooky than I anticipated. And yes, without an enemy to hide from, I can see the Fallen Empire of leviathans reasserting their dominance.
Well, Bioware sure isnt above pushing an optional dlc character as a main big bad in a sequel.
*Cough* Corypheus *cough*
Personally, I like the idea of the power vacuum post-Reaper War. But, without the Leviathan threat as I've grown tired of the World/Galaxy ending threats and they would more than likely just be a lesser version of the Reapers ultimately. With a power vacuum and a highly shattered order to the Milkyway Galaxy. It makes sense that others would rise up with their own goals in mind for the future when the council is truly at it's weakest and if Shepard is alive in the next Mass Effect. How would Shepard approach this new post-Reaper Galaxy?
I figured they were going to tie together the benefactor(Who I have always believed to be an AI, whether geth/starchild idk) Possibly the SAM implant since it would have existed in the milky way as well. This would allow for a secondary variant of the synthesis ending, a modified one where everyone slowly agrees to the meld, like the Quarians and Geth do in the peace ending or SAM and Ryder. Humans developing based off Geth AI would be something I would definitely see possible, even them resurrecting them by rebuilding their code after the catalyst. However when I heard your take on the Leviathans coming back I thought it would be possible that the way Leviathans control could be countered by a SAM Implant in theory since it could prevent the signal from changing your brain.
Leviathan is a likely option, however I don’t want that. They really are too close to what the Reapers offered. It would be more interesting to have a new threat. Perhaps another species that had been culled by the Reapers, one that was just faintly hinted at during the main campaigns of the game.
It's cannon Shepherd is still alive so the commander can make a return. As for Andromeda they can't connect the two as Andromeda takes place hundreds of years after the original trilogy. The Andromeda Initiative left before the Reaper invasion but were in cryo sleep for hundreds of years.
I'm sorry but Shepherd should be dead. If they are indeed going with the destroy ending this is going to be total nonsense. There is litteraly no freaking way that Shepherd should be alive. The only way to make it legit is through the indoctrination theory
@@ericmacrae6871 The developers themselves in 2012 on the Bioware forum wrote that Shepard is alive in Destroy
@@SeverusHunt I don't care what the writers says. There is no way that Sheppard can be alive even in the destroyed ending.
I love this idea for the next Mass Effect game. I want to see the Normandy crew deal with the awkward diplomatic fallout as different factions develop and lash out against the leaders that they believe failed them (e.g. the council and the Alliance not acknowledging the Reaper threat, The Quarian Admirals causing an unnecessary war, the Krogans wanting to expand and conquer again) it would be amazing 😁
I have a feeling there will be Cerberus splinter factions in the next game too now that the illusive man is dead it’s a lot of opportunities for new factions and villains
I just don't fancy an OP Leviathan chance against Cmdr Shepard....😂😂😂
Your idea makes total sense, I'd love to play that game. They could create urgency by having you take part in the war you described, having teammates killed, watching battalions of soldiers get violently destroyed, seeing civilians die. Protagonist loses faith in the institutions of the Systems Alliance, and begins to suspect the war is being fought for reasons other than those given by the SA government. He starts considering the validity of the conspiracy theories that are sometimes discussed on dark corners of the Extranet. His patriotism gets eroded. Humanity is losing the war, so Cerberus approaches the N7 protagonist to investigate. Each month that passes the death toll rises, more colleagues die in battle, locations get destroyed, the conflict gets worse and worse. The protagonist is consumed with a single minded drive to expose the true nature of what is happening, and in the end you find out that senior leadership on both sides of the war are being manipulated by the Leviathans.
It could be set centuries after ME3. Maybe the Illusive Man has found a way to download himself into a synthetic body. Maybe Cerberus really does save humanity this time.
Maybe the protagonist is 2IC rather than OC of a ship. Maybe the captain is also being manipulated and is throwing obstacles in your way. Eventually you have to kill him and take command. Maybe it's a mutiny.
What if the ship's a big old cruiser rather than a frigate? Or maybe you start out commanding a small unit, doing missions out of a shuttle? The possibilities are endless.
That's not Liara, it's her Daughter. Possibly with Shepard.
Amazing video like always🙏
Great video. Maybe the galactic community rventually decides to deal with the Leviathans like they did the Rachni, but some species/factions don't want them extinct
What i would add: The story is set over 700 hundred years after the reaper war, probably enough time for the Leviathans to grow again in the darkness, and the races to rebuild the mass relays. In the Andromeda Galaxy, the Initiative has now build up a working society, and the seltlements have grown to cities, they also started to build there own warships in case the kett return. Also they somehow figured out how to travel from galaxy to galaxy without sleeping for 600 years (maybe with remnant tech) and they ALSO got the Signal from the Milky Way. So Ryder and the other Pathfinders travel back to the Milky Way, to visit there homes and for negotiations, just to find out a new war is brewing, that soon spreads over both galaxys.
During the Story of Mass Effect there was a bit of Dialogue that said that every cycle was almost exactly the same as the last as if something was orchestrating galactic development, we had Haelstrom's Sun dying before it's time, the Raloi, the Virtual Aliens, and the disappearing objects in the Gas Giant Ploba, or maybe the Beings of Light and all the stuff from Mass Effect Abandoned (I Mean Andromeda) the point is there is plenty of story left to tell I just pray EDI and the Geth survived the Destroy ending.
About the urgency thing: I think there would be a lot of urgency starting at some point in this game. The urgency wouldn't be there in the sense of "the whole galaxy is going to be destroyed" like in ME 1-3, because this is a different kind of threat, but it would be absolutely there. At some point, we could notice that they want to overtake earth and humans but it wouldn't be so clear to everyone, similar to the reaper problem. We could find out that they are planning things to overtake one species after the next. No need to be as strong as the reapers and attack all at once. There would always be the suspense of taking over earth and others. It's hard to put everything I'm meaning here into a comment instead of recording it as a video, but I think you can imagine were I'm going with this. Making allies would be very important again, proving that we're on the side of race A, B, C, a lot of politics as in 1-3, a lot of exploration of the plans of the enemy etc. Learning new races who could be friend or foe. The connection to Andromeda, how will that play into the whole new conflict?
That stuff could be easily dragged out into at least another trilogy, concentrating on different races, not necessarily one per game, but there's so much potential in this and we would have an urgent threat all the time. Could be even more interesting since they would be more active in some parts and less active in other parts of the galaxy. Maybe some would be on their side and so they would be an even bigger enemy with their allies. Don't underestimate that it could get really interesting when the enemy starts finding partners. They would become more and more powerful. We couldn't trust anyone at some point.
So, yes, there could absolutely be an urgency of threat all the time. If BioWare does it right, they could absolutely pull that off. It doesn't have to be the same as the reapers. It would be more complex. Let's see!
Ryder ain't fighting no one in the next game he's a thousand years away in the wrong Galaxy
There was a subtle Lin in ME2 at a bar. These guys were talking about an asari dancer. They thought the asari were like sirens.
I replayed the Mass Effect trilogy last summer on the remastered version and by God those games are possibly my personal favourite Sci-Fi media ever. My hype for the upcoming one after the disappointment of Andromeda is immeasurable. 🙏😌
I could see SAM playing an important role to both andromeda and Milky way. With the trailer hinting of the destroy option, and SAM was unaffected by the destroy option. SAM could be the key to aiding the milky way in whatever conflicts or issues they will be facing in the story. Plus with SAM likely being the most advanced AI (assuming the story takes place hundreds of years in the future. The milky way society could once again be hesitant to accept SAM's help.
I like the idea of the violence trying to gain power and sewing confusion and war throughout the galaxy. They would make a great minor bad guy that there's a focus of the first two thirds of the game. Only to realize that there is a greater threat out there.
Holy hell, imagine it in the new ME game…you take down the leader villian, find out he was controlled by the Leviathan orb. Suddenly, you find yourself in the Leviathan hypno-realm, talking with them and seeing your companions aiming guns at each other while under their control. And then the Leviathans make them shoot and kill each other to make you understand that fighting them would be like fighting the sun (or one of them survives - insert a loyality/companion readiness meter here)…
Always nice to wake up and see that MrH did a video on your #1 theory
;)
The Leviathan could've been using those crystal balls to stage an attack once the crucible was fired, we could've been helping them stage a takeover through the Leviathan DLC.
i suspect another threat maybe a race who had developed a symbiotic relationship with the reapers who were not worth eliminating or indoctrinating or converting to husks could appear as the new big bully of the galaxy
Hey Hulthen I hope you are doing well, thanks for the update mate :)
I'm all good, thanks for asking! And thank you for watching the video :)
Plot twist, we find out Leviathan have a master. It's name is Cthulu.
Just imagine Shepard gets brought back yet again for some reason you're charged with getting your hands on the most awesome Reaper tech imagineable and when you arrive you meet people like Garrus, Liara or Tali and everyone is like "Huh, so it has come to this" and boom, you have Pirates of the Carribean "everyone points thei weapon at everyone" situation at hand.
It's probably not very likely, but I'm not sure if I could take something like that.
After the long speech that was added to the end of ME3 years ago, and never changed in Legendary, there is a new era of peace and cooperation, so that throws a wrench in your view of warring factions jockeying for power.
Unless of course, Shepard imagined the whole ending.
I'm calling it now: the villain of the next Mass Effect will be the Space Hamster
i really hope your right! this is so good!
What might be cool is the protheans as the enemy faction. Maybe they cast themselves forward in time and are tying to conquer the galaxy again to unify against the reapers they think are still alive and coming
If we have the leviathans as the villain it'll be way fun to fight like the reapers were
There are a lot of Mass Effect fans waiting in anticipation. Fans love the games for a variety of reasons. I personally loved it for the story, and shooter elements. I know others like character and weapon upgrade paths, I think Andromeda even involved crafting. Many like the exploration part of the games. My fear, from seeing the poster, and the relatively small craft compared to the SR2, is that it will be heavy on exploration and crafting. The hero, it is my personal wish, to be on another "save the galaxy" mission. Playing Shepard, I think gave every player a bit of an ego boost, at least during game play. A sense of importance, a sense of notoriety. Playing a session as Shepard makes the player feel a little pumped. Ryder, in Andromeda, was just some young adult that fell into his job, because his Dad died. The male character also sounded like a talk show host, like Ryan Seacrest. He felt very "plastic". Personally, I feel invested in my Shepard character. If they could some how have a story line where Liara brings him back the way Cerberus did in ME2, I'd be elated. The Leviathans could pose a galaxy wide threat this time. The sparkly globes they distributed through out the galaxy could turn populations in to thralls. Not unlike the Husks. But, less zombie like, and far more incognito. Meaning, like the indoctrinated, they would be difficult to detect. Perhaps one, hiding in the hero's own crew.
I hope its not a bunch of walk around, scan and catalog stuff. If I want that I can play No Man's Sky. This has to be an ADVENTURE. Alliances, friendships, romances.
MrHulthen, you are absolutely right. The leviathans should be the next big bad. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
my top 2 bets are on Cerberus with a combo of Reaper and Remanent tech or Harbinger in a different/mortal body and with a team of unresolved villains like Wreave and Xen.
this could be very well the case, and now that i think about it the Leviathan could also be the mysterious Benefactor from Andromeda. it'd be the perfect tie-in for both games and since Liara was helping Ryder this could be the 'how did we miss this' moment we hear in the audio.
As for me some kind of future danger in the galaxy can be Scourge from ME:Andromeda (that can explain why we have fragments in the trailer), but of course Leviathans can be good secondary antagonists which we must defeat in the same time.