I actually think Torrhen Stark was smart, and did not need the Raven to see sense. He must have heard what happened south to the other armies, and he would also know that the neck was no protection against a dragon. And of all the monarchs he was the one who spared his people useless suffering in the face of a superior force. It says much about his character that he was able to recognize the situation for what it was and act accordingly.
plus like they even said, torrhen was a descendant of the first men, who were literally around for the creation of the white walkers. they knew what was coming even before aegon did, as he didnt come to westeros for thousands of years after the first men. so wouldnt it make sense though that the starks would pass down the info through the ages that the walkers would return? hence, winter is coming. and the next logical step being, they knew fire and dragonglass killed them, so why wouldnt they team up with the dude w 3 fire breathing machines of destruction lol
@@Iruma366that corny. Most of J.R.R Martine story are based on real stories in events. Like the war of the roses etc. i could go on. To say that Torren Stark was smart enough and sensible enough to bend the knee does not make him honorable. Great leaders before have surrendered smartly only to rise back again. Dorne is like Afghanistan or middle east and their custom is based on that guerrilla warfare, lots of waiting and hiding out, no confrontational battle. Ambush. That is how afghan won against the Russians. I don’t think that is the style of the northerner. They are great swordsman and riders and they want to fight in the battle field. They probably think thag style of fighting from Dorne is not honorable.
@@chansermish2406 The Dornish are not one people but divided into thirds. The crannogmen are northerners and are far superior to the Dornish at guerrilla warfare. Most northerners would not like it but, northerners are at the end of the day a people who do what they must to survive. Those tactics the Dornish used would have worked 10x better in the north.
Makes sense, considering the north has never really been involved in the political squabbling with the other kingdoms. They are part of the seven kingdoms, but it just feels like they operate/exist on a different wavelength to the other kingdoms.
Obviously, Aegon Targaryan and Torin Stark shared the same prophecy of the long night. They could not tell any other noble houses or those houses would think them crazy.
It's a song of ice AND fire....it's crazy how.much power can be created by people coming together and being honest. Imagine if the threat had been made common knowledge. Probably wouldn't even need a wall.
i think it more likely torin knew from it being passed down in his family, he is decended from the first men who were around when the white walkers were created. the first men came hundreds of years before aegon.. and killed the children of the forest. which is why the ww were created to begin with. even if you think about the story of aegon. they say he came over from essos and conquered the 7 kingdoms.. hinting that, the kingdoms were already there for him to have to conquer them.
And i see Chris Helmsworth as Rhaegar, or Aemon the Dragonknight i also think Aemon was Jons real name, Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon... maybe he realized that song of ice and fire he needed lyanna Stark its not a song of sand and fire which would be glass. The Stark words are true Winter will always be coming im more interested in the weather and seasons of the planet westeros is on. It's crazy that summer can last years and so can winter. Imagine having to store up years and years worth of food for the survival of your people. Torren kneeling shows what a true king does for his people.
@gregnagy7569 I Was on break at work and got a radio call bc I'm a Maintenance Technician. So i had to get back to work. So I didn't have time to really proof read it. If you don't like it, Don't respond, keep scrolling. And If that's still not good enough for you just have a good cry itll make you feel better 😭...🤣 hahaha
Brandon Snow was a greenseer. He told Torrhen that he could sneak into the Targaryen camp and kill their dragons with weir wood arrows. Clearly, the option to kill Aegon and his dragons was not at all out of the realm of the possibility... Brandon Snow wouldn't suggest it if he wasn't confident that he could do it. And we know that weir wood arrows in the hands of a greenseer is basically an insta kill.
Its possible that the Starks have known about the next coming of the night king for way longer than the Targaryens. The Starks are a much older line. They also have magic in their blood and are a direct descendent of Bran the Builder who fought off the Night King the first time. Its also possible that Torren saw the combined strength of most of the armies of the 7 kingdoms plus 3 dragons and came to the logical decision of saving his people. Two ancient royal lines had already been extinguished. His choice was to either fight, loose his crown, possible see his line extinguished and his people suffer. Or bend the knee, loose his crown, but protect his family and people. It also could have been a combination of both knowing what the future holds and seeing that the odds were stacked against him.
Sansa is my favourite character because she was a fregile girl in the begging and still she survived every worst come in her path and also she became the writer of her own destiny by becoming the queen of north she just not made her kingdom free but at the same she managed to fullfile her childhood dream of being queen. She was actually the best learner in the GOT who never repeated any mistake.❤❤❤❤
Rhaenyra is horrible ,she knowingly started a civil war by having bastard children . I don't think people realize how big of a no no that is for someone who is set to inherit the crown
I think Torren was intelligent and saw that the burning of the many other kingdoms, and wished to save his own. Not watch in the upwards of 20 to 30,000 men die. Annihilating houses completely. He'd always had the words Winter is Coming. There was a reason for that as well as the wall being built. Torren knew that. And my favorite character in the ASOIAF and GOT universe is Arya. She became an independent woman from being a frightened girl.
hands down my favorite is Tyrion, because he was the smartest person in the series. he knew how to play the game and played it well. yes he messed up several times. but what other lord, lady, or otherwise didnt make mistakes threw out the entire series. he still ended up on top and out smarted most of his advisories.
toren was freaking smart, get killed by dragons or kneel and along with all of your men, women and children stay alive. also he practically ruled the north the same way as before just technically had a king above him, but basically the north was ran as before. so they lost nothing but from a king to warden.
Correct me if I am wrong, its been awhile since I read the books. In the tombs at winter fell there are a few hidden rooms with hidden items. Could they hold these secrets or answer to those questions? Its possible... I dont remember what the book said was in these rooms, I just remember whatever is in there is very important. I think they hold alot of answers if the books ever get back to them. The long night would need several people in order to win from both houses. Without both of those houses they would loose the long night. I do think the raven showed both men what was at stake and both houses are very important to win against that evil. Hopefully alot of the questions will get answered?! Eventually?! Who knows but at this rate, its just wishful thinking!
I'm thinking I'd like to hear from George 🙂we know how does research ❤ and love his deepest dive. Personally I'd like to know and hear what he says. So much is happening since hotd s1. During s2 of hotd hopes got up about dunk-n-egg. And now this 😀 George buddy pal friend what r we doing?? 😀
I doubt that Aegon the Conqueror was the only person who had that prophecy. Maybe Torrhen Stark had the same or similar prophecy. Not to mention that he, of all people, would at the very least consider Aegon’s mission since he lived by the motto that “winter is coming”.
plus hes descened from the first men. the white walkers were created by the children of the forest to kill the first men because they were slaughtering them. if his ancestors were around hundreds of years before aegon even came to westeros and fought the white walkers they DID in fact pass down that info, hence winter is coming. so wouldnt it make sence for torin to want a truce with a dude that has 3 fire breathing dragons; one of the only weakness' of the white walkers.. and the other being dragonglass which was under the original castle of the targeryns? if you remember dragonstone was the original family home in westeros for the targeryns before kings landing was built. at least thats what daenyrs says, when she comes over she said something about it being weird being back in her family home after so long. so he literally didnt have a choice lol
@@Cracker813lmao Bran the builder literally was the architect who In turn founded house stark. To me I don't think the three eyed crow convinced Torrhen stark. I think he convinced bran the builder about the others and also possibly sent the children of the Forrest and giants to help build the wall
Ich glaube dass die Starks wissen was mit dem Winter kommt. Und auch wissen was Weiße Wanderer sind. Und das die Tagaryen und sie zusammen arbeiten sollten.😊
Rivers was the illegitimate child of the Riverlands. Gentry was the illegitimate son of Robert Baratheon of the Stormlands. He eventually became the Lord of the Stormlands.
Bastards have different last names depending on where they’re born! • Snow: The North • Sand: Dorne • Storm: The Stormlands • Waters: The Crownlands • Pyke: Iron Islands • Hill: The Westerlands • Stone: The Vale of Arryn • Flowers: The Reach • Rivers: The Riverlands
Stop trying to spin it! He chickened out at the sight of a couple of dragon. As far as we know they could’ve been meteorites entering the atmosphere, like most people at that time believed. A
The starks could have beat the targaryens easily if they would have took the fight just on the other side of the wall where the dragons won't go I wonder why nobody thought of this or did they just not know
I actually think Torrhen Stark was smart, and did not need the Raven to see sense. He must have heard what happened south to the other armies, and he would also know that the neck was no protection against a dragon. And of all the monarchs he was the one who spared his people useless suffering in the face of a superior force. It says much about his character that he was able to recognize the situation for what it was and act accordingly.
Aegon could not have conquered The North no more than he could Dorne if Torrhen chose to fight no matter how much suffering they had to endure.
plus like they even said, torrhen was a descendant of the first men, who were literally around for the creation of the white walkers. they knew what was coming even before aegon did, as he didnt come to westeros for thousands of years after the first men. so wouldnt it make sense though that the starks would pass down the info through the ages that the walkers would return? hence, winter is coming. and the next logical step being, they knew fire and dragonglass killed them, so why wouldnt they team up with the dude w 3 fire breathing machines of destruction lol
Cool story. Long video. Short answer. Dragons. Thee end
@@Iruma366that corny. Most of J.R.R Martine story are based on real stories in events. Like the war of the roses etc. i could go on. To say that Torren Stark was smart enough and sensible enough to bend the knee does not make him honorable. Great leaders before have surrendered smartly only to rise back again. Dorne is like Afghanistan or middle east and their custom is based on that guerrilla warfare, lots of waiting and hiding out, no confrontational battle. Ambush. That is how afghan won against the Russians. I don’t think that is the style of the northerner. They are great swordsman and riders and they want to fight in the battle field. They probably think thag style of fighting from Dorne is not honorable.
@@chansermish2406 The Dornish are not one people but divided into thirds. The crannogmen are northerners and are far superior to the Dornish at guerrilla warfare. Most northerners would not like it but, northerners are at the end of the day a people who do what they must to survive. Those tactics the Dornish used would have worked 10x better in the north.
Aegon told him the North would be left alone, never bothered. Just answer the call when needed to fight the dead. That what I believe he said.
Makes sense, considering the north has never really been involved in the political squabbling with the other kingdoms. They are part of the seven kingdoms, but it just feels like they operate/exist on a different wavelength to the other kingdoms.
“ We’re always F@€king pissed! “
House Baratheon
Obviously, Aegon Targaryan and Torin Stark shared the same prophecy of the long night. They could not tell any other noble houses or those houses would think them crazy.
It's a song of ice AND fire....it's crazy how.much power can be created by people coming together and being honest. Imagine if the threat had been made common knowledge. Probably wouldn't even need a wall.
i think it more likely torin knew from it being passed down in his family, he is decended from the first men who were around when the white walkers were created. the first men came hundreds of years before aegon.. and killed the children of the forest. which is why the ww were created to begin with. even if you think about the story of aegon. they say he came over from essos and conquered the 7 kingdoms.. hinting that, the kingdoms were already there for him to have to conquer them.
And dragons
Henry Cavil would be badass playing Aegon Taurgarian
And i see Chris Helmsworth as Rhaegar, or Aemon the Dragonknight i also think Aemon was Jons real name, Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon... maybe he realized that song of ice and fire he needed lyanna Stark its not a song of sand and fire which would be glass. The Stark words are true Winter will always be coming im more interested in the weather and seasons of the planet westeros is on. It's crazy that summer can last years and so can winter. Imagine having to store up years and years worth of food for the survival of your people. Torren kneeling shows what a true king does for his people.
No
At least have a decent try at spelling....
@gregnagy7569 I Was on break at work and got a radio call bc I'm a Maintenance Technician. So i had to get back to work. So I didn't have time to really proof read it. If you don't like it, Don't respond, keep scrolling. And If that's still not good enough for you just have a good cry itll make you feel better 😭...🤣 hahaha
“ We don’t grow produce we steal” House Greyjoy
“ I F@€king hate Brackens “
House Blackwood
Brandon Snow was a greenseer. He told Torrhen that he could sneak into the Targaryen camp and kill their dragons with weir wood arrows.
Clearly, the option to kill Aegon and his dragons was not at all out of the realm of the possibility... Brandon Snow wouldn't suggest it if he wasn't confident that he could do it. And we know that weir wood arrows in the hands of a greenseer is basically an insta kill.
Great video 🔥
“ We like to fish “ House Tully
“ A Lannister always pays his bills on time “ House Lannister
Its possible that the Starks have known about the next coming of the night king for way longer than the Targaryens. The Starks are a much older line. They also have magic in their blood and are a direct descendent of Bran the Builder who fought off the Night King the first time. Its also possible that Torren saw the combined strength of most of the armies of the 7 kingdoms plus 3 dragons and came to the logical decision of saving his people. Two ancient royal lines had already been extinguished. His choice was to either fight, loose his crown, possible see his line extinguished and his people suffer. Or bend the knee, loose his crown, but protect his family and people. It also could have been a combination of both knowing what the future holds and seeing that the odds were stacked against him.
My favourite character was Bronn, why? What you see is what you got. He never hid his motivation for doing something.
“ We wear Starls like Northen fashion “
House Bolton
Sansa is my favourite character because she was a fregile girl in the begging and still she survived every worst come in her path and also she became the writer of her own destiny by becoming the queen of north she just not made her kingdom free but at the same she managed to fullfile her childhood dream of being queen. She was actually the best learner in the GOT who never repeated any mistake.❤❤❤❤
“ Let’s get High “ House Aryan
Rhaenyra is my favorite character. She is a kickass woman in charge with the kindness that every child needs and deserves.
Rhaenyra is horrible ,she knowingly started a civil war by having bastard children . I don't think people realize how big of a no no that is for someone who is set to inherit the crown
Aemond is one of my favorites in all of the lore
I think Torren was intelligent and saw that the burning of the many other kingdoms, and wished to save his own. Not watch in the upwards of 20 to 30,000 men die. Annihilating houses completely.
He'd always had the words Winter is Coming. There was a reason for that as well as the wall being built. Torren knew that.
And my favorite character in the ASOIAF and GOT universe is Arya. She became an independent woman from being a frightened girl.
“ Summer is Over! “ House Stark
House Bolton would not have chickened out! They would’ve flayed those dragons!
"I have 🐉 you dont" House Targaryen
The producers didn’t do justice with the ending of game of thrones
“ Pay up sucka “ House Frey
hands down my favorite is Tyrion, because he was the smartest person in the series. he knew how to play the game and played it well. yes he messed up several times. but what other lord, lady, or otherwise didnt make mistakes threw out the entire series. he still ended up on top and out smarted most of his advisories.
It was just plot armour and dumb writing. In the books, a lot of his dumb decisions will get him killed long before the Long Night
I’m naming my daughter ARYA…she will be here December 20th 🖤🏴☠️
Congrats!!
toren was freaking smart, get killed by dragons or kneel and along with all of your men, women and children stay alive. also he practically ruled the north the same way as before just technically had a king above him, but basically the north was ran as before. so they lost nothing but from a king to warden.
Correct me if I am wrong, its been awhile since I read the books. In the tombs at winter fell there are a few hidden rooms with hidden items. Could they hold these secrets or answer to those questions? Its possible... I dont remember what the book said was in these rooms, I just remember whatever is in there is very important. I think they hold alot of answers if the books ever get back to them. The long night would need several people in order to win from both houses. Without both of those houses they would loose the long night. I do think the raven showed both men what was at stake and both houses are very important to win against that evil. Hopefully alot of the questions will get answered?! Eventually?! Who knows but at this rate, its just wishful thinking!
I'm thinking I'd like to hear from George 🙂we know how does research ❤ and love his deepest dive. Personally I'd like to know and hear what he says. So much is happening since hotd s1. During s2 of hotd hopes got up about dunk-n-egg. And now this 😀 George buddy pal friend what r we doing?? 😀
My fav character is the three eyed raven
I doubt that Aegon the Conqueror was the only person who had that prophecy. Maybe Torrhen Stark had the same or similar prophecy. Not to mention that he, of all people, would at the very least consider Aegon’s mission since he lived by the motto that “winter is coming”.
yeah, cregan stark implied that in the 1st ep. of season 2, although jace didn't catch that because rhaenyra hadn't told him about it yet at the time.
The Wall was built thousands of years before Aegons Conquest. I’m sure the Starks had an oral tradition of why the wall existed.
plus hes descened from the first men. the white walkers were created by the children of the forest to kill the first men because they were slaughtering them. if his ancestors were around hundreds of years before aegon even came to westeros and fought the white walkers they DID in fact pass down that info, hence winter is coming. so wouldnt it make sence for torin to want a truce with a dude that has 3 fire breathing dragons; one of the only weakness' of the white walkers.. and the other being dragonglass which was under the original castle of the targeryns? if you remember dragonstone was the original family home in westeros for the targeryns before kings landing was built. at least thats what daenyrs says, when she comes over she said something about it being weird being back in her family home after so long. so he literally didnt have a choice lol
@@Cracker813lmao Bran the builder literally was the architect who In turn founded house stark. To me I don't think the three eyed crow convinced Torrhen stark. I think he convinced bran the builder about the others and also possibly sent the children of the Forrest and giants to help build the wall
I have a few favored characters like most Jon Snow is one of them, and its because he is a man of Honor, but also since he can be selfish.
Who would like to see the story of Aegon the conquere and his two sisters 🤔🤔
I got a wild theory. Hear me out. It might be crazy....Dragons
Ich glaube dass die Starks wissen was mit dem Winter kommt. Und auch wissen was Weiße Wanderer sind. Und das die Tagaryen und sie zusammen arbeiten sollten.😊
i ponder why the 3eye raven didnt just stop robert?
Bran the Builder.
Rivers?
Ist that the last name of a Baratheon illegitimate child, Gendry
no rivers is for riverlands bastards
Rivers was the illegitimate child of the Riverlands. Gentry was the illegitimate son of Robert Baratheon of the Stormlands. He eventually became the Lord of the Stormlands.
Bastards have different last names depending on where they’re born!
• Snow: The North
• Sand: Dorne
• Storm: The Stormlands
• Waters: The Crownlands
• Pyke: Iron Islands
• Hill: The Westerlands
• Stone: The Vale of Arryn
• Flowers: The Reach
• Rivers: The Riverlands
They knew the prophecy because of their green seer anility
I like your info n knowledge but it seems hear laty u on its all the raven pulling all the strings ???
Stop trying to spin it! He chickened out at the sight of a couple of dragon. As far as we know they could’ve been meteorites entering the atmosphere, like most people at that time believed. A
The starks could have beat the targaryens easily if they would have took the fight just on the other side of the wall where the dragons won't go I wonder why nobody thought of this or did they just not know
Aegon is a smart leader, he will never take a war to where is enemies strength lies, between south to north is a lot of distance
Surrender or become bbq
Has George Martin confirmed any of these theories ?
Yhe raven had nutn to do with it gezz bro enugh wit raven controilng everything geting out of hand
Walker Charles Young Edward Johnson Jennifer
No cause Aegon's prophecy was made up just for the show. Torren just surrendered to save his house.
The Starks are pompous.
White and Proud :)