I agree-- some sloppy excuse... Here's my issue though... The first Incredibles is ACTUALLY surrounding Mr Incredible. Like, the first teaser TRAILER STARS Mr. Incredible trying to pull his pants on. The reason the villain exists is because of Bob Parr. The story, really, really surrounds this character. I can't see why that is not a good thing on this movie. (again, the villain, even with an amazing design and purpose, she was a waste.)
While Incredibles 1 did have contrivances, I think it was actually a Pixar writer who said, "Coincidences that get your characters into trouble are great, coincidences that get your characters out of trouble are lazy". The tracker moment in Incredibles 1 is former, Incredibles 2 is chock full of the latter.
Hey, here's an idea: Put the super suit cameras on upside down, so when the Heroes talk to you, they appear right side up on your screen, then edit the footage of their good deeds so it appears right side up, *AND THEN* replay it - Right side up - on the news later!!
To put it into perspective: If a coincidence gets you into trouble, that just feels like how life is sometimes, so the viewer won't mind. If a coincidence gets you out of trouble, it feels like the hand of God just decided to take over the story for a bit, which feels awkward to the viewer. Now this COULD work, if luck/fate is a tangible living thing in your story that can be influence with a proper ruleset, ala Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. But it could also be really bad if it feels random and too convenient.
@@GBDupree Even troublesome contrivances need to be kept to a minimum, though, because ultimately, conflict should arrive out of character decisions, not dumb (bad) luck.
@@BWMagus Certainly, but in the case that a character makes a bad decision that gets him into a fight, and despite being the better fighter still gets hurt badly because of bad luck during the fight, I think people won't mind that. It raises the stakes, while making the consequences still all the character's fault, since their decision led them there in the first place. Bad luck just happens sometimes, and people won't even notice it as long as it isn't a huge plot moving moment. But yes, if it is a major moment, it shouldn't be left up to chance, because it's better for the character to be actively influencing it or being actively influenced by the actions of someone else.
You know what the worst part is they obviously had planned some form of good writing in this movie because there's a deleted scene that would have absolutely grounded this movie and helped it exponentially. Basically Bob has this little speech/Memorial for gazer beam and it's just full of good writing, it's just so grounded to reality that it you could have showed me it and I totally would have believed that it was deleted scene from the first movie. It would really show the effects of what happened after the first movie whereas since it is deleted we don't get a trace of the effects that syndrome caused.
I think the Incredibles sudden character traits could've been used as a good hero family plot. Like now that the world has been save, Bob and his family are homeless, and jobless. Have Bob try to be proactive in the lives of the kids, even maybe to an annoying degree, maybe even have it where Bob and Ellen save a shop from thugs or something, and care more about getting back to his family (thus less spotlight), while Ellen tries too hard being a hero (thus getting more spotlight). And you could have the rich guy meet Ellen, and offer her a job, while Bob is fine being a house husband. You can then add the Screensaver plot (thoe I would wish for a better one). Have Bob now takeaway Violet's job, of watching over Dash, and Jack-Jack, as Bob would have more father and son moments, leaving Violet without an excuse to be less sociable (and most likely missing the mother and daughter moments). With Violet trying and failing at being more social, maybe even getting picked on more, thus becoming more angry and aiming it at her family. Where, Bob tries to help her, but makes it worse. Now with Ellen we can have the Screensaver plot, with some minor changes, like maybe after saving the "day" so many times recently sparked her youthful ambitions (while back in the first movie, Bob had his nightly heroics, so is less enthusiastic about it). And now doing hero work nearly 24/7 Ellen starts missing her family, with the end of the Screensaver plot conjoining. And the Incredible Family hugging it out. Of course Violet and Ellen will have a bonding moment and grow from this. Maybe at the end have Bob try to be more of a outdoors camper, and Ellen be more encouraging of the kids running the mission. Like I said the Screensaver plot remains, including the kids learning to take leadership, but with smaller heroic moments. Doing it this way I think would give a good reason for the villain to be less of focus point, and since there will be smaller hero moments, allows the kids to shine more, and gain the experience for the villain plot.
@@Mister_Clean Yeah, they kind of just have their “look at these new designs and power concepts!” montage with the new supers without really addressing the emotional reality that the supers Bob and Helen knew were murdered. Kind of indicative of the larger difference - and imo problem - with the sequel; the original balanced darker elements while still being family friendly, there was no sense of dumbing down for the audience or shying away from things, but the sequel sacrifices this for comedy and a lackluster plot. I mean, we literally see the corpse of Gazerbeam and his last words in the first, the Incredibles feel like a real family, their problems and friction, but their love and connection as well. In the sequel they felt somewhat - if not flanderized certainly less fleshed out and dimensional. The kronos scene is a meme now, but there’s a reason it’s been a standout scene from a great movie for so many years. Watching Mr. Incredible have to go on the emotional, psychological journey of realizing that fellow supers from the good ol days have been systematically lured and killed as a part of Syndrome’s plan, and that his family could be targeted next is so impactful. The scene mentioned is more along the lines of what my expectations were for an Incredibles sequel. Not that it had to be super dark or dramatic, but the sense that the things that happened in this world mattered, that they had consequences. We didn’t need Bob to be in some state of mourning the whole movie, but especially if the plot was going to center around making supers legal again, some deeper acknowledgement would have been nice. Instead we got a baby battling a raccoon.
God, that’s fucking sad. Gazerbeam and some of the other Supers that were killed were Bob and Helen’s friends, appeared at their wedding. They lost contact because of the Superhero act and moved on, only for the other heroes to fall into Syndrome’s honey trap of ‘wanna be a hero again?’, used as fodder just to upgrade the Omnidroid’s intelligence and model. Syndrome, in his pettiness, only saw them as ways to improve his death machine to gain up to the level of killing Mr Incredible (just for a show in which people got killed/injured just so he can show off his tech), but Bob saw them as friends. Not just a suit and a cape, but people like them with lives and families.
The best clip is "What are you doing!?". Though now I have a bad habit of saying it when I play videogames and the AI is just beyond stupid and makes horribly wrong moves.
The Screenslaver was probably the worst choice she could have made for a decoy villain. Elastigirl just fought a villain who openly told everyone on TV about his mind control powers and suddenly she declares war on all non-supers while wearing weird goggles. It should be easy for everyone to find out what is happening here. By having the Screenslaver tell everyone about his hypnotic powers, she literally lays out all of her cards and now everyone knows what she is going to use to execute her plan.
I would like to note, however, that the scene where Helen locates Bob in the first movie is _explicitely_ portrayed as a dramatic scene. There is this contrast between Bob frantically but sneakily scrolling through the Omnidroid's files, understanding how big of a threat the whole situation is, and Edna slowly and theatrically showing to Helen the remote and Helen slowly and uncertainly going to tap the locator function, until the very moment where she taps it, escalating Bob's situation in a desperate and impossible escape scene. Basically, the whole scene is played out as tense, and it makes us think "Please Helen don't, we know that you're doubtful and scared, but this is not the right time at all". In short words, this scene is not played out as a "convinience", but as a "terrible coincidence", so when we watch it, it doesn't make us roll our eyes, but actually feels believable.
I agree, that’s what I got from watching the scene. Like I think it was clearly intentional that it was supposed to be a terrible coincidence for dramatic effect. Didn’t feel like a flaw at all.
There is a big difference between coincidences that help the main characters and coincidences that hurt them. One increases the stakes, the other undermines the stakes.
42:20 Honestly, the writers did have something to work with here. Elastigirl's new suit has a camera built into it, meaning that Evelyn can see and hear through it and therefore knows exactly where she is and what she is discussing with the others and could direct the mind-controlled supers into ambushing them. Knowing this, Elastigirl could then exclaim that she needs to change so that she can't be tracked anymore and then be offered her Incredibles suit. It gives an in-universe reason why she would switch to something that is more iconic to us when there is otherwise more pressing matters. It's a shame the writers never thought about this; they just needed Helen in the suit people recognize.
A kid could comment on the rip, then Bob/Helen could remember the camera/tracking when thinking about the suit. The parents can bicker about what to do about this, perhaps Helen saying she can stay out (after being the one to be active in the movie), but Bob encouraging her to fight despite the risks (accepting her being the one in the action finally). Then either Violet or Dash can pull out the suit and have a funny line.
The thing is, the camera is also built into Bob's and Frozone's suits. To worry about it, and if the villain knows what your plan is because of it, is irrelevant. Bob's in his red suit, Frozone has always been solo, and Helen's suit is the only one that needs to be changed because she's no longer an independent superhero. Despite the situation, it makes sense for her to change her suit to show her alignment more with her family.
@@mirroughs7729 I mean kind of with the alignment thing but the main issue still stands that the logical excuse to switch suits midfight and in the middle of a potential crisis still needs something, besides I just realized the camera thing could be solved by crushing the tiny things or getting the crusher to do it if he was still even in the film or getting the characters to come up with some sort of creative solution that would involve doing something with the cameras. Yes we are still running into some sort of logical contrivance with the solution originally purposed by op but their could be a good reason to keep the cameras around and if they came up with a solution for the rest of em. Also the kids don't have one so Helen and the kids can do something without being detected. We would have to come up with some sort of solution in writing or else both the proposals wouldn't actually work cause the camera scare is still around.
What I find most amusing (and painful) about how you mention the "blink and you'll miss it" nature of the Elastigirl versus Frozone and Mr Incredible battle is that, in the theatre, I actually sneezed twice during that scene, which of course I closed by eyes, and by the time I had opened them again to look at the screen, it was a shot of all of the characters standing there, no goggles, conflict totally resolved. And I genuinely thought I stroked out.
The thing about Doofenshmirtz's pettiness is, it's understandable. His parents taught him that the world hates him no matter what he does. Evelyn on the other hand had two loving parents who were killed. She had a successful life with her brother as an inventor. She has no f*cking reason to feel the need to destroy a man's livelihood or feel wronged by him because of that pizza. In fact, here's a better idea Ms. Deavor; you could have just put mind control lights into eleastagirl's suit since you had the bright idea to put a camera in there in the first place!!!!
Plus Phineas and Ferb is literally a comedy, the pettiness of Doof's actions is part of the joke lol. He's not meant to be a serious threat and every time he succeeds, he almost immediately regrets it lol
They're losing to Phineas and Ferb and a lego game. This 2018 sequel is losing to a lego game and a disney cartoon from the late 2000's. Keep that in mind
Here's a simple fix that automatically makes Evelyn's actions make a million times more sense: What if, crazy idea, after the Incredibles and Frozone stop both the Omnidroid and the Underminer, the people love them again, and the powers that be start putting into motion the legislation to make supers legal again, UPON WHICH, Winston meets up with the Pars and Frozone to offer them the same deal he does in this movie, except here it's to boost their positive image further and to sway the public opinion even more to their favor, which they do, thanks to Elastigirl's heroics. So, Evelyn starts growing worried that supers are going to be legal again and her life-long goal ruined, so she decides to stop that from happening by inventing a new super-villain for them to fight, so as to hypnotize them into damaging people's perception about them, as she does in the film, starting with the "Screenslaver" attacking the Monorail. So you have the same plot beats and the same story (stupid as said story is), but at least now it makes sense.
One idea I had is having Evelyn not be Winston's sister, but maybe a distant cousin (or not related at all) who was wronged by Winston in some way, so she became an inventor and infiltrated his company. Once she was in and Winston starts his plan to get the public to like supers, she creates the Screenslaver and leaves enough clues at the crime scenes to frame Winston as the villain. This will also give supers a bad rep since they chose to align with Winston.
So basically, if they "did nothing"(interms of retconning these guys at least being excused from the ban after the event), then "everything would proceed in an orderly fashion"? Man, that storywriting is very ironic.
I found out another cool detail about Incredibles 2 from another video. In the first film, a woman confused Syndrome for a superhero named Fironic. But in this film, we see Fironic in the flashback scene, and his costume does look pretty similar to Syndrome's costume.
It's kinda funny how the actions and words of the Screensaver don't align at all with Evelyn, but alygn perfectly with her brother. It is like he was planned to be the twist villain but they changed it because it wasn't "subversive" enough.
@@drikeatmey It worked in Knives Out though. And it was exactly because the regular red herring trope was so overused in detective stories. It all comes down to execution really, because for what it was, Evelyn as the Screensaver just didn't work or made any sense. Perhaps if it were like a double-twist villain like situation, where her brother was manipulating her to be a villain all along (through hypnosis most likely) and fabricate a motivation and her eventual defeat so the heroes are fed a competent enough and logically sound villain to justify their heroism, maybe the story could've worked, but this is just going too far honestly, too many layers of irony. Most audiences would leave just as confused, I think.
I was wondering why Helen never decided to just close her eyes when she knew the goggles were going to be turned back on. It was a massive liability to monolog like that, and it certainly hurt in the long term.
How do we even know she didn't close her eyes? Those lights on the goggles completely hide her eyes from us, and they are nothing like her mask which sticks to her eyelids and close with her eyes. And the way she tensed and resisted, it's obvious that her eyes would be closed. I can't imagine anyone making those movements with their eyes open. If her eyes were wide open, that would seem freaky and unnatural. So obviously, Helen closed her eyes but the goggles on her face flashed so bright and so closely that the light got through her eyelids and she ended up hypnotized.
@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ Just look at Helen's face when Evelyn turned the goggles back on and imagine how her eyes would be. They would be closed, wouldn't they? In fact, the way she resisted means the mind control isn't as instantaneous as the first time. The first time, Evelyn interrupted Helen with the goggles, so her eyes were still open. This time, Helen listened to Evelyn's monologue and watched her push the button so she was more prepared, and she closed her eyes when the goggles turned back on. However, the flickering bright blue light irritated her eyes in a way that forced her to peek and that was how she was brainwashed again.
@@SeanWheeler100 The problem with that is that once again the supers with goggles on and the normal people just looking at a screen have their hypnotism treated very differently. They're shown wide eyed and unblinking when you see their face because a single blink can allow them to regain consciousness long enough to consider just keeping their eyes closed. If Helen could do that then she would have won during the resistance, were her eyes closed to start with. If their entire plot relies on us knowing that the light of the screen is made irresistable even to closed eyes, then Evelyn could at least have mentioned that in a monologue about how she achieved hypnotism.
This movie, especially when compared to how incredible the original was, is a good example of what happens when a movie is created from a corporate order rather than being born from a genuine, creative idea. Also, did you see what I did there?
Yup. And that is pretty much the exact state of Disney with their movies/shows right now. Nothing has felt like it’s been done out of genuine love for these franchises and wanting to continue them with new creative ideas, but just “This thing was popular in the past so let’s just do that again so we can make more money!”.
I always thought a great arc for Dash would've been Dash discovering he's actually pretty smart. For example through the tutoring session with his dad he actually grasps pretty complex math problems or manages to master something he didn't understand pretty quickly, with his dad's help, and finding he enjoys being good at math allowing them to bond over a shared interest. This would let Mr Incredible achieve something he can be proud of as a father and be closer to his son, while adding a bit more depth to his character. This arc could then progress for Dash through school where he goes from being the jock/class prankster to finding he likes learning, maybe mending bridges with the teacher from the first movie, and perhaps alienating him from his friends until his new found passion for learning helps him and his friends achieve something. Finally the arc could culminate with him using math or science to solve some issue in the final fight intelligently making the family acknowledge he's not just the dumb kid brother/speedster but has other talents to contribute to the team. If you made it here thanks for your time reading this long post.
If we take some of speedster logic from Flash then Dash could possibly think much faster than a normal person due to his brain having to react to what is going on around him as he is running. If we use realism any speedster with a mind that can't keep up with their body is going to always crash into something.
That would've been great! A nice, nuanced nod to the idea that a super's talents and interests and personality don't need to only revolve around their main powers. I would've loved it, would've been adorable, and it would've given us a fun Bernie appearance as well.
i could see this more as an episode of a tv show for the incredibles, an arc that big would heavily distract from the main plot and overstay its welcome. not too mention it wouldnt make much sense in a "final" movie
@@aerostrafe1075 While true, fast processing times don't mean greater intellect. It just means that you have a lot of time to think things through. There's thing like intuitive understanding that just don't happen if you're just fast. At the same time, you'd be some sort of computational whiz since you have the time to make calculations on the fly.
Here's another thing you didn't even bring up: If Dash and Violet are vulnerable to being crushed in the vents, which is something that the movie calls attention to, why did Jack-Jack becoming huge in the vents not kill them?
@@ShadowKamehameha32 I once went to a restaurant called Cracker Barrel which has a toy shop in it and I actually saw a action figure of the big Jack Jack.
It’s kinda sad how a lot of people just speed through this movie and act like most of the flaws are invisible. It wouldn’t be that much of a stretch to look at some of the strong flaws in this movie. Especially if you’re gonna be frozen in place looking at this movie
This is how I feel about a lot of movies. People tend to want to ignore flaws in movies they want to enjoy, which is fine, but it's frustrating when they pretend that those flaws straight-up don't exist. It's important to acknowledge flaws, especially obvious ones, because it makes us more aware of the quality we should expect from our entertainment.
@@veronica-mew I know. I've seen so many people confuse "suspension of disbelief" for "straight up abandoning the idea of logic because films aren't real".
@@jeremyusreevu237 yes. I personally hate it when people tell me to just "turn my brain off and enjoy the movie" when I'm trying to talk about movie flaws because it sounds like they think movies don't need logic and, if something doesn't makes sense, it doesn't matter because movies are dumb anyway. It's very frustrating.
Well I think I can kinda understand how in theaters since you're probably not going to pick up on a lot of things unless you're an analytical type or a huge fan of the last movie or both. Others might need to be shown all the inconsistencies like this video series has done in order to be convinced. I mean I knew the movie wasn't as good as the first but I still liked it. I didn't realize how much of a huge cluster fuck of a mess it was though.
You should really do a "how ralph breaks the internet destroyed everything" series. It didnt even try to be canon (which it obviously isnt) seeing how screwed up the characters and everything is, but wow does it deserve it. Wreck it Ralph is one of my most favorite movies ever and breaks the internet is such disappointing garbage!! At least it doesnt have a 2 in the title.
Better than the Emoji Movie Also, people say the second movie is “dated”, but the first movie showed arcade games from the 80s in 2012 and literally no one complained _How does this make any sense?_
1:27:00 Bob and Helen were much more observant and smart in the first film. The movie also treated its audience as observant and smart. Having the cave spell out KRONOS just to be used as the password. Or showing that the robot has steadily been improved in its design and AI with nothing more than some flashing screens. Not to mention the subtle interpersonal drama throughout.
May I *_PLEASE_* remind everyone The Incredibile *_DOES_* have Ejector Seats?!?!? Did *_NO ONE_* remember the scene in the beginning of The Incredibles where Bob *_USED THE EJECTOR SEAT TO REMOVE BUDDY PINE FROM THE CAR?!?!?_* Where did that scene go that it vanished from everyone's brains except mine?!?!? Where?!? *_WHERE?!?!?!?_*
As far as the comparison between Syndrome and Evelyn, you did hit the basic points as far as motivation, character writing, and general impact on the story and why Syndrome is a far better villain then Evelyn will ever be. But there's actually one thing that I think people missed with regards to these two. Syndrome actually is a twist villain. But a far better executed one. Syndrome is like any twist villain, he shows up mid-way through the story, his presence comes out of nowhere, and his identity is a shock to the audience as much as it is to the characters in the story. The thing is though, I was there back in 2004 when The Incredibles came out, I remember how the advertising campaign and the story itself never directly foreshadowed who Syndrome was and what his role in the story is. You see him in the shadows after Mr Incredible defeats the Omni-droid the first time around, but you never get the impression he's the man behind the plan, nor is he Buddy Pine, former disillusioned Mr. Incredible fan-boy. So when he actually shows up, his role and true identity are a genuine shock to the audience, but like any twist villain, there's enough foreshadowing and clever build-up on repeat re-runs that it doesn't feel the writer's did it to be all "What a Twist!" Contrast Evelyn who has all the subtle foreshadowing of the moon in Majora's Mask, is telegraphed so blatantly it's almost painful, and who's presence feels like the film is dragging it's proverbial feet until it wants to pull the big "Gotcha!" moment. It's not clever, subversive, or shocking, especially considering that modern Disney has used and abused the twist villain so much that it would be no surprise that it would bleed over into pixar as well. And much like modern Disney, the twist villains aren't interesting, intimidating, and only exist to play into baby's first thematic tie-in with what the movie wants to say and the characters re-iterating said theme that is bludgeoned into the audience's head with a cinderblock. Also, let's discuss voice-acting. Jason Lee's performance as Syndrome is easily the highlight of his career, and I think anyone who dismisses him as just "The My Name is Earl Guy" is doing him a complete disservice in his performance. He hits all the notes that Syndrome hits, the hurt and disillusionment of his childhood incident, the menace and sociopathic glee in his voice when he taunts Mr. Incredible after he's been captured, and his complete indifference to his subordinates and consequences to live out his narcissistic desires. It's brilliant, and I wish he honestly got more roles like that instead of another goddamn Alvin and The Chipmunks movie. Contrast that with whoever voices Evelyn, who isn't intimidating at all, and who only exists to make "Snarky" casual danger dialogue that feels ripped out of the MCU (And trust me, that's a trope of mine I wish would die in an inferno). Now, I'll propose another theory, that Winston was always meant to be the twist-villain. I mean, a guy whos' suspiciously enthusiastic about super-heroes and who's more than willing to give resources to prop them up suddenly being the villain? Cliche, but it could work. In fact, I think in some ways the writers wanted to go that route all along. Then Bob Odenkirk got cast, they shit themselves at how older audiences would predict the twist, and frantically re-wrote it to make Evelyn the villain all along. Leaving aside the fact that, as predictable as it is, I doubt anyone would complain about Saul Goddamn Goodman being the villain of a pixar movie, it also retroactively hurt the conflict because you can tell that Evelyn doesn't have nearly the depth that Winston may have had if they stuck with the original plan, and therefore none of the good qualities she needs to be an effective villain. I only write this out, because even at the time of release, I fucking hated Evelyn as a villain so much. Syndrome is my favorite Pixar villain, I could write an essay on why he works so brilliantly. And to see a three-dimensional villain like him who made an indelible impact on me as a kid replaced with someone flatter than a Paper Mario character just pisses me off. Anyways, great video essay series as always. I look forward to hearing more of these in the future.
Honestly, I don't even think Syndrome is a perfect twist villain. A twist villain usually has three steps. Step1: Establish the character Step2: Build towards them being a villain Step3: Be a well-written villain character that the narrative would undoubtably be worse without. Syndome doesn't quite hit Step 2, there isn't really any forshadowing that his now-tainted view on mr. incredible is ever going to come back, the connection is only explained once he enters the stage again.
@@lpfan4491 Maybe not "perfect", I will admit, with regards to step 2, other than the scene of him pissed off in the back of the squad car as a kid, and the few monologuing bits about how he got rich, there isn't a definitive path that would inform the audience he would be Syndrome until later. When Syndrome showed up, I had completely forgotten about Buddy in the overall plot, I thought that he was a one-off character who would have no further impact, so unless you go and rewatch the movie and point out all the little clues, it can be hard to see the complete path that's trying to have the villain go from "Ego-centric but otherwise not-wholly unlikeable kid who wants to be an actual hero and feels hurt that he's rejected" to "Disillusioned man-child who more or less commits genocide on an entire group to get back at one person who slightly wronged him and to stroke his own ego as the hero we always imagined himself to be" But, I will say that even if Step 2 is lacking. Step 3 makes up for it. Again, maybe not "perfect", no character really is, just like no story really is. But once the story gives the time necessary to establish Syndrome as a villain (Something that Evelyn and the modern Disney villains I alluded to sorely lack, more focused on the "Twist" part instead of giving them ample time to focus on the "Villain" part), it becomes clear that if Syndrome hadn't been nearly as captivating as he was, he wouldn't work as well as he does. Syndrome may not be a perfect twist villain, but he is a damn sight better executed twist villain than Evelyn was. That was the crux of the argument, how even in the first movie, the idea of the villain being a twist villain, was still better executed than the sequel trying this same idea.
actually, the idea of dash being super smart makes some sense because his brain would have to be able to work faster and process things quicker due to his super speed so that it makes sense that he would be able to learn things easier than other people, kind of turns him into the flash but still he could probably find a manual on the boats controls and read it in seconds, memories it and direct the family on how to stop it.
You can even twist it another way. Maybe Dash isn't particulary smart, but due to the speed he has to process information, he can learn more in the same amount of time as others and thus through HARD WORK still become competent and smart.
I don't think that's totally true. In the first movie we see him run into a ton of bugs. He didn't dodge or notice them, he hit them so I don't think his brain functions faster.
@@cryguy0000 to once again reference the flash batman has punched him in the face before despite his in universe supper speed thinking, besides to be able to run that fast and not run into a wall he would have to be above average in processing speed at least so the idea has at least some merit
The Incredibles is my favorite film. I loved it as a kid and only grew to appreciate it more as I get older. It’s perfect. They characters all have arcs and the themes are immaculate. Not to mention the astounding direction and writing. Incredibles 2 dumbed everything down and didn’t have an ounce of depth or intelligence of the first one. I do want a third one to make up for 2.
True. I was obsessed with them as a kid and watching it again as a 20 years old, I still find it to be my favourite film. All the characters were great in the first film. Here, they're flanderised. Even Jack. In the first film, he was literally a normal baby. He got scared, he shat his nappies, he lashed out when abducted. Here, he behaves like an actual animal. Literally. The first film had this weird realistic touch to it. This one was childish. Not childish in a Coraline, Adventure Time, Narnia kind of way. Childish in a brain dead, Baby Shark Do-Do-Do-Do-Do way.
The first film had dynamic enemies, Omnidroids, Syndrome, Bomb Voyage, armed gunmen, enemies that can think and react to your actions. Incredibles 2 is just a bunch of out of control vehicles with only the Underminer being somewhat dynamic.
The one thing I will actually refute is that blunt force would hurt or even kill Elastigirl. If I'm going off of One Piece rules, rubber if flexible, bounces back, and absorbs impact, so technically she can withstand way worse pressure with no issue.
If she prepares for it by flexing herself around it. She's not always rubber. She can't permanently shape herslef into her ideal body (as seen when she worriedly looks at her hip size). She walks normally when her powers are not 'active', not bouncing off each step. She slips back when the door shuts on her waist. She needs to dodge bullets because they are too fast for her to dodge or ricochet. She dodged a moving pod to avoid the blunt force. She grunts in pain when she stretches with the goal of supporting a heavy weight. She doesn't just stretch when people grab her or when she turns a steering wheel, she stretches when someone grabs her while she is trying to get her main body away, like when Bob ropes her in for a kiss after she frees him. Evidence in the first movie shows she is only invulnerable to sharp forces because of her suit and is harmed by blunt forces she is unprepared for.
I cant comment enough how awesome the editing in your videos are. Just how well you can match a few seconds from the movies where a character is making a gesture and have it match what you're saying such as Violet rolling her eyes in annoyance as you're making a point that you consider annoying. 10/10
It’s a real treat to watch. I usually listen to essays like this while I’m doing something else, but when I don’t have anything else to do this editing makes the video a perfect level of activity to keep up with.
Something that's always kind of confused me about this film is why they needed to put in a twist villain in a _superhero_ movie. As RUclipsr Schaffrillas Productions said, the villain could just be some guy. Why do they feel the need to have a twist villain? Anyways, good video!
I feel like movies are trying way too hard these days to subvert tropes and expectations instead of just telling a story. Most of the Disney movies of old are classics because the story is simple and easy to follow but movies these days have to overcomplicate things :/ Take Lightyear for example, Toy Story 2 handed them the whole story on a silver platter but they butchered it with trying to subvert our expectations. If Lightyear just stuck with the fact that Zurg was a parody of Darth Vader and just did the whole movie like that, it would have been much better received
@@shadowm2k7 I dont enjoy finding out the twist on zurg in Lightyear either and time travel plays into it. Gee it sure seems these earlier films with fewer resources age better
Because the old movies were 'simplistic' and therefore sucked whereas the new movies are masterpieces because they sUbVeRt OuR eXpEcTaTiOnS. The irony, of course, is that those old movies still stand the test of time to this day while the newer movies are quickly forgotten immediately after they're released.
Some older movies still did twist villains well. Like in Wreck it Ralph. You actually might already be a little suspicious of him, but its who he really is that was a surprise and was done really well! I love that movie. Then theres stuff like Frozen and Lightyear where it doesnt make sense and is stupid.
I’m surprised he missed pointing out that Mister Incredible bent solid metal chain around himself like it was a pool tube when minutes before he couldn’t budge some piping
Here's a thought. How would the movie change if Evelyn's ideals actually matched up with that of her brother but to a harsher extreme. What if she wanted Supers back but by any means necessary. It'd make sense for the Screenslaver as a red herring villain since he was made threatening yet easy specifically to make Helen look good. If Evelyn was that desperate to bring Supers back then it'd make sense for her not to care about all the destruction and possible death she caused and having sent an innocent man to prison if it meant ultimately legalizing Supers for the greater good. Maybe have her parents get killed in a bank robbery hostage situation to make her motivations more believable. She could hate humanity for both getting rid of the one thing that could have saved her parents and prove to her that normal humans are not capable enough to keep the peace. It brings some interesting themes to Evelyn herself and when Helen figures out what Evelyn's been doing it'll bring an interesting moral dilemma to Helen and her family. Does she go along with Evelyn for "the greater good" and bring Supers back or call her out and potentially further hurt the image of Supers. This could also trickle down to the rest of the family. It'd test Bob to see exactly how far he has removed himself from his addiction to the glory days. It'd make sense for Voilet to renounce her superhero status if she can't morally bring herself to go along with this and just not want to deal with the legal and social drama, especially when it comes to her image in school and with Tony if she's ever discovered to be a Super and pinned as part of the "Superhero Menace" doing whatever they can to become legal again. And Dash... Yeah, I dunno. This could also hurt his image which I'm sure he cares about. I guess it could also bring his morals into question since one goal he has is to prove himself and use his powers, either as a superhero or not, and now he has to question whether or not it's even worth it to pursue that goal anymore. The sort of anger and depression that'd come from him once again being deprived of the option to use his powers openly would be an interesting idea to explore. I dunno. It definitely wouldn't fix the movie as a whole but I feel it'd make it a lot more interesting to watch.
That would also curb a lot of the criticisms people had towards the original for being Randian. Centering your entire life around some sort of “ideal humans,” is fucked up, and people should be able to value themselves for what they’re capable of rather than fetishizing that which they aren’t. The woman’s an excellent tech geek and a great public speaker. She had plenty of potential to be a hero in her own unique way.
Honestly, idk. The premise just sounds like the good old argument of "a loud minority of fans/supporters are bad, so the thing itself is bad too surely". They never signed off on this, so there is no moral dilemma. there is a reasonable chance their image can recover, considering they would still be the ones to bring the villain behind bars. Plus, even if the public is genuinely dumb, there will always be diffrent viewpoints. Some would logically argue that it may have actually been an attempt to slander Supers by unfairly associating their existance and legality to destruction.
A possible defence for Edna could be that she is using some of her prior technology to create Jack Jack’s outfit and remote, I could have seen her deal with a wide variety of heroes and powers so she might have had prior clients with similar powers and/or counters, it would explain how she was able to create the remote to track him through alternative dimensions. As for a thing that Evelyn could have done was just MIND CONTROL YOUR BROTHER! Just brainwash him to share your opinions on heroes and he would leave them alone for them to continue ruining their own reputation. You already have loose morals and don't care what he thinks, just brainwash him & do nothing related to heroes and you win.
Especially since she did have the suit from the first movie, which was fire proof and stuff, if she was working off of that and maybe give her a small, "I've been tweaking with it for a while now" it'd make so much more sense
@@bigbadgammagnome She definitely didn't care about Elastigirl, part of her motivation is that she hates superheroes, Helen was just a pawn but Winston was her brother. She might think he's an idiot but she still brought him onto the helicopter while she tried to escape, so she probably didn't feel comfortable mind controlling him unless it was necessary. Plus it'd also make him suspicious
I want to play Devil's Advocate on the "Combustion, what does that mean!?" line. Its entirely plausible its Bob being confused why his son is about to spontaneously catch fire as its something he never saw before and didn't know Jak Jak can do.
That isn't what the scene really implies though through the wording. "What do you mean by combustion?" sounds more like he knows what the word means but not the form its about to take. Specifically asking "What does combustion mean?" shows you don't know that word. Grammar is very important in writing. "Is he going to shoot fire or catch on fire?, "Don't tell me he can ignite himself too?" etc etc provide many ways to give the message without making Bob sound questionable.
@@aerostrafe1075 or "Combustion?!? You mean, Jak Jak's going to explode". Then have Mr. Incredible go to break the glass to save Jak Jak, interrupted only by Edna saying "It will be fine Robert, trust me. Just enjoy the fireworks" or something along those lines.
Here's how *I* would rewrite Incredibles 2 (at least as far as the main characters and their arcs go). But first, some context. Make it take place 14 years after the first movie. That way it's easier as a writer to write the story without worrying so much about consistency with the Incredibles. And it opens up more exploration into how society has adjusted to superheroes coming back after having them been banned. And it sets up opportunities on montages of the Incredibles working together as a family crime-fighting unit. Now, the characters. First, Helen and Bob. After 14 more years of crime fighting, Helen and Bob are inevitably getting older. Bob is getting weaker and Helen can't stretch as much as she used to, and they are concerned about how to go about retiring and breaking it to Violet, Dash and Jack-Jack. Violet. Since the first movie, she has had a successful relationship with Tony and she is now happily married to a man who accepts her as a superhero. She enjoys being a superhero and setting an example and an inspiration for introverted people like her. However, soon she discovers that she's pregnant, and now she has to decide what she has to do now that she is starting her own family and superheroing is dangerous work. Now Dash. Being a famous superhero despite his young age, Dash is loving his life. But soon a wrench is thrown his way when he meets a girl. She's pretty, she's smart, and she's a super too. But he discovers that she works for a nasty villain. Now Dash's world isn't so black and white; he has to decide how far he will go about giving his opponents chances to turn good. And finally, Jack-Jack. Having not had to grow up sheltering his abilities, Jack-Jack doesn't have the appreciation of his powers that the rest of his family has. And since he has so many (though not NEAR as many as he does in the movie) he's relied on a lot for solving problems both from his family and everyone else he knows. But being fourteen, Bob and Helen don't think he's old enough to actually participate in the heavy crimefighting, causing Jack-Jack frustration and feeling of entrapment. As the movie progresses he could be tempted by a villain promising freedom or runs away from home. Maybe his true desire doesn't lie in superheroing at all and wants to do something more mundane that the rest of the family doesn't understand. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Incredibles 2 was a massive disappointment to me because I loved the first movie and the thing that still bothers me about the sequel is how every member of the titular team regressed and became stupider and meaner.
But hey.... your rewrite is not bad..., although I wonder what the meaning of the message or teaching that the movie would give us would be? How would you write the final fight and the definitive ending according to you? I found your rewrite interesting.
@@alem4303 Well, the final act would sort of play out like this movie's does: Bob and Helen are captured by the villain and his goons and it's up to the kids to free them. The Villain manages to trick Jack-Jack into getting parents captured, which he feels terrible about and comes to realize that he shouldn't take his family or what they fight for for granted. Violet's relationship has been tense with Tony throughout the movie, because she is determined to still be a hero but he's concerned that she will either get seriously hurt or become too obsessed with hero work that she neglects their child. Maybe it's revealed that Tony himself had emotionally neglectful parents, which triggers Violet's memories of her dad early on in Incredibles 1. But by the end they come to a compromise, and Tony agrees to be a stay-at-home dad as long as Violet promises to be in their baby's life. Dash's arc finishes with him giving his new friend an ultimatum: take responsibility and become a good person, or he takes her in as a villain. No more second chances or excuses. She agrees to turn good, because she realizes that she likes Dash and that he isn't interested in using her like her villainous boss. She joins the hero team and helps Violet, Dash, and Jack-Jack free their parents and stop the villain's evil plan. After the final battle, Bob and Helen come clean about retiring, but they promise they will still provide proximal support and will always be there as parents for their kids. Violet takes a few months for maternity leave, Dash and the new girl (Hot Streak, a pyromancer) work out her rehab and eventually become a crime-fighting couple. And Jack-Jack apologizes for everything and says rather than being a superhero, he wants to be a gardener/landscaper. His family all accept his choice and apologize for pressuring him into hero work. I know this is pretty vague. And I know this tier of writing is above Disney Pixar at this point, but that's the sort of story I would want to write if I was tasked with writing The Incredibles II.
“I can’t lose you again! i can’t- not again, i’m not… strong enough” even just watching that scene during this youtube video i can say that i felt chills through my body. a truly amazing moment from the first film that still hits me over a decade later. saddening that incredibles 2 never managed to even get close to that level of impactful character development
I suspect Evelyn's character might have been butchered in rewrites. It seemed like the movie was progressing towards revealing she was playing the villain to help her brother. The theme of people being too dependent on supers doesn't really show up at all until the end, but an "ends justify the means" theme is present throughout, as well as a sort of duality between Elastigirl and Evelyn both breaking the law to achieve the same thing in completely different ways, both of which went no where in the end.
Another thing the Lego Game did better than the movie is the fact that the Screenslaver fight doesn't give you seizures, in the Lego Game the background is just a slow moving white spiral in a black background which is way better than what the movie was trying to do.
And last but not least, we’ve got our villains: The Underminer and The Screenslaver. In my comments on the previous parts, I made mention that both villains should have been co-antagonists, with The Screenslaver as the primary antagonist and The Underminer as the secondary one. I think that separately, it would be difficult for one to carry the whole movie alone (especially The Screenslaver/Evil Endeavor we ended up getting :|). But together, they would make up for what the other lacks in capabilities and talents, provide an interesting and entertaining character dynamic, and be a credible threat to the extremely powerful Incredibles, especially if they utilize divide and conquer strategies. Let’s look at each villain separately, then both of them together to see how this would and maybe _should_ have worked. First, The Underminer, our Moleman villain, who is utterly wasted and never even mentioned after the first scene, which is baffling to say the least since fighting him and understanding his character and his place in this world was one of the main reasons why most of us wanted to watch an Incredibles sequel. I’d like to provide the full quote from his introductory scene in Incredibles 1 & the added stuff from the game Rise of the Underminer: _Behold, The Underminer! I am always beneath you, but nothing is beneath me! I hereby declare war, on peace and happiness! Soon all will tremble before me! Hahahaha! _ *Game Added Part*_Soon this world will be like The Underworld, and I will rule the above from beneath the entire planet! You will all be crushed within my grip! Ahahaha! Thus begun, the rise of The Underminer! _ Now, this tells us that his goals and motivations are much more interesting and engaging than robbing banks. He clearly wants to rule the surface world as an expansion of his current domain, The Underworld. This motivation is identical to Moleman’s from the Fantastic Four’s rogue gallery, right down to being ruler of an underground civilization. And it seems like he’s got an inferiority complex about the surface world, evident by the line “I am always beneath you, but nothing is beneath me!” and “I hereby declare war, on peace and happiness!” These lines imply that his underground kingdom isn’t sunshine and rainbows, perhaps resources are scarce and he has to expand his territory because of that. Maybe The Underworld is being pillaged or encroached upon by greedy companies and ambitious corporations, which “forced” Underminer’s hand to retaliate bigger and badder than the corporations that are disrespecting his rule. I would personally go with this one as it’s a more nuanced and interesting reason for attempting world domination than simple delusions of grandeur. His weaponry and equipment shown are actually perfect, I love his grungy, clunky, heavy metal approach to machinery and gadgets as opposed to Syndrome’s clean, sleek, modern sci-fi aesthetic. It makes a clear distinction between both villains personalities and their motivations. Syndrome was a young, classy futurist with subtle, complex and carefully laid out plans with specific targets in mind in order to satisfy a personal grudge. The Underminer is an old, off-putting aspiring dictator with overt, simplistic and a downright aggressive plan to wage war on an entire world in order to satisfy an inferiority complex and/or to obtain retribution against the world that threatens his way of life. And it’s important to note that both of them are geniuses, innovative and creative individuals that use their brilliance for selfish, harmful reasons, and wind up succeeding for the most part. Syndrome eliminates 99% of the Super community, captures and tortures Mr. Incredible in ways that no one has ever been able to before, humiliates him in one-on-one combat, nearly destroys his city, kidnaps his baby right in front of his eyes, and destroyed his house nearly killing his entire family in one go. That’s quite a lot in the win column for old Syndie. The Underminer breaches to the surface, causes massive damage including taking out the buildings he targeted specifically, defeats Mr. Incredible in hand to hand combat (which shouldn’t have happened, but hear me out), robs the bank, gets away with the money, and causes the Incredibles to get arrested and have to go back into hiding. That’s a lot of in his win column as well, with the bonus of not dying or getting arrested in the process, something even Syndrome can’t boast at the end of the day. What I’m trying to impress upon you is this, The Underminer is like a reverse-Syndrome, he has everything already set to make him as fascinating, engaging, and competent as Syndrome was while being a completely different beast altogether. All I would add to his arsenal would be his army of robot minions from the Rise of the Underminer game, seeing as that would give each protagonist ample enemies to fight, as well as bolster Underminer’s intelligence. Thinking back on his fight with Mr. Incredible, that fight needed some kind of nerf for Mr. Incredible in order to work, otherwise Bob flicks the guy and the fight ends in 3 seconds. But instead of dumbing down Bob and nerfing his super strength, a continuous influx of robot minions would work infinitely better. Because then it wouldn’t be about how strong Bob is and how weak the Underminer is, it would be a distraction game, The Underminer knows he isn’t a match for Mr. Incredible, but he doesn’t have to be. All he needs is to spread him thin, keep him surrounded and have him take into account all the different abilities of his robots working together to incapacitate him so The Underminer can move in for the kill, so to speak. Again, this is quite similar to how Moleman fights the overpowered Fantastic Four, he sends wave after wave of his mole people and underground monsters at them, and at innocent people, in order to spread them thin enough for him to beat them. It’s the best strategy available to characters like this facing opponents with insanely powerful abilities. Since this is the direction I would have his character go in, I would also like to add deadlier weapons to his arsenal. How about a volcanic ash type gas weapon, something that could knock out even the strongest of opponents because it attacks the lungs, not the muscles or bones? How about a drill fist instead of just a jackhammer one, something meant to shred through dense muscles and bones that Mr. Incredible would need to watch out for? How about a flamethrower type weapon, a lava-thrower, leaning into the underground aesthetic even more? What about a spiked wrecking ball weapon, something that can be very difficult for Mr. Incredible to account for in the midst of battle? And finally, as I mentioned in my comment on Part 2, an ultrasonic weapon that even Violet wouldn’t be able to defend against, a last resort to deal with Supers of all types that he cooked up specifically after watching the final battle with the Omnidroid. All of these weapons would open up intelligent, engaging, and satisfying fights against this villain, as well as challenge the heroes in new and interesting ways to counter these tactics together. Because that’s what this movie should be about, the Incredibles coming together to make something greater than the sum of its parts. Speaking of coming together, how about we tackle The Screenslaver in a reply?
Screenslaver, a villain that was unsurprisingly bungled as soon as we encounter them in person and didn’t even keep the cool mask and design that excited viewers when the villain reveal trailer first dropped. As for the Marvel character that Screenslaver is based on, the Disney Wiki doesn’t say, but me being a Fantastic Four fan, I see a clear connection to an underrated villain in their rogues gallery, The Mad Thinker. With his green and black aesthetic, the onesie, the evil genius with subverting schemes and plots, not to mention the hypnotizing goggles gimmick is one for one Mad Thinker’s Hypnotic Goggles he used against The Thing and Daredevil, as well as his more iconic Hypno Lens. And because this character is connected to The Mad Thinker, a villain known for his insanely methodical and brilliant plans and motivations, I think you can see why this villain was so very disappointing for a Fantastic Four fan like me. It didn’t have to be that way though, as stated in Part 2 and touched upon in the thematic messaging conclusion of this part, the villain monologue of The Screenslaver was intricately thought out and honestly fascinating as an antagonist’s motivation. The complete quote is as follows: _Screenslaver interrupts this program for an important announcement… Don’t bother watching the rest. Elastigirl doesn’t save the day, she only postpones her defeat. And while she postpones her defeat, you eat chips and watch her confront problems that you are too lazy to deal with. Superheroes are part of your brainless desire to replace true experience with simulation; You don’t talk, you watch talk shows. You don’t play games, you watch game shows. Travel, relationships, risk; every meaningful experience must be packaged and delivered to you to watch at a distance. So that you can remain forever sheltered, ever passive. Ever ravenous consumers who can’t bring themselves to rise from their couches, break a sweat and participate in life. You want superheroes to protect you, and make yourselves ever more powerless in the process, while you tell yourself you’re being looked after. That your interests are being served and your rights are being upheld, so that the system can keep stealing from you, smiling at you all the while. Go ahead. Send your Supers to stop me, grab your snacks, watch your screens and see what happens. You are no longer in control, I am… _ Now that is pretty damn good, especially when coupled with the action of the scene itself, again, as explained in Part 2. The issue is it holds no weight because the rest of the story isn’t concerned with tackling this idea, creating yet another waste of a fantastic premise/idea/character. This should have been The Screenslaver’s real motivation, this should have been the crux of the main thematic messaging. It can even tie into my suggestions for Tony Ridenger’s character in my comment from Part 2, about foregoing consumerism and going out to live life and experience true risk and stimulation. So I absolutely want to keep this and skip Evil Endeavor’s motivations entirely, as well as Winston Deavor and the entire idea of Supers being illegal for… reasons. I’m not saying Screenslaver can’t have an identity similar to Evil Endeavor, her personality and design should definitely be kept. I’d hate to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I really like _aspects_ of Evelyn, but there’s too much weighing her down which causes the entire story to plummet down. So if I were rewriting Screenslaver, I would retain the idea of a patsy to hide the twist reveal as The Screenslaver’s identity. I would even try to make the patsy a much better red herring, such as someone who fully buys into the Screenslaver’s ideals and thus was recruited by the real Screenslaver to further their shared goals. This would really beef up Screenslaver’s manipulation skills as well as make the mystery of The Screenslaver just a bit more engaging and tricky to uncover. This would also function as a really nice reference to The Mad Thinker’s infamous tactic to use highly advanced androids to impersonate him that he can use remotely. So yeah, I like the patsy idea, it just needs a little tweaking to work better. As for personality, as I said, Evelyn’s got an engaging personality that would fit Screenslaver quite well. I don’t mean how she behaves after the reveal, mind you, I’m talking about pre-reveal Evelyn, she’s interesting. Laid-back and aloof on the surface, sarcastic and dry humor, masking a bitter, resentful outsider. She retains a kernel from the Screenslaver’s rant, “You want superheroes to protect you, and make yourselves ever more powerless in the process”, which ties into a terrible backstory. But if The Screenslaver was rewritten, this could easily just be part of her beef against society and even link it to her desire to team up with The Underminer to defeat the Supers and plunge the world into a new age. An age without rampant consumerism, an age without corporations that bleed people dry, an age without Supers to create a lazy, ineffectual populous. An age without screens (more on this idea in a sec). Her weaponry and equipment is also pretty interesting and I believe it fits her well, the strobe lights attached to the mask would be very useful against more powerful opponents and as a hidden weapon no one would expect. There’s a DC villain called Prometheus that uses this type of attack/tactic to great effect, the strobe lights flash in a predetermined pattern to cause hypnosis, which is on theme with old Screeny, but also to disorient other capable opponents immune to hypnotism, like Batman. The cattle prod type weapon is perfect because Screenslaver would consider the ever ravenous consumers to be sheep or cattle. A cattle prod would symbolize not just technological proficiency and ruthless but intelligent weaponry to use against more powerful opponents, but an inherent superiority and separation from a society of mindless cattle. So that’s great, honestly wish we could have seen that used more in the actual movie, but whatever, par for the course, right? The only thing I would add to The Screenslaver’s arsenal would be a gun of some sort, she needs a projectile weapon and I think a taser gun would be nice. A real gun would be okay, but to keep with the aesthetic of electronics, screens, and all that, a taser gun would be great. But the main tactic that she should be using is hypnotized slaves to fight against the heroes, which is the easiest and most effective way to combat superheroes, weaponize innocent lives and use their heroic nature against them. If the Screenslaver used portable screens or the strobe lights like I mentioned earlier, she could hypnotize anyone around her and order them to kill the Incredibles or even try to kill themselves to force the Incredibles to stop pursuing her and save the innocent people. Again, this could tie very neatly into my rewrite idea for Dash that’s posted on Part 1, where he has to work on his collateral damage and be more careful to save lives as opposed to chasing bad guys for the thrill of using his powers unrestrained. And as for how Screenslaver and Underminer would work as a team, again, I’ll put that in a reply (curse RUclips’s character limits for comments XD)
Screenslaver, as the primary antagonist, would need to be intimidating enough to stand on equal footing with the likes of The Underminer, because if they’re going to work together, Underminer has to respect Screenslaver, no? I would have the Screenslaver offer to help the Underminer after he narrowly escapes the Incredibles in the opening scene, show him that through her planning and innovative technology and his army of robots and deadly brand of mining technology, they can divide the Supers and conquer them. The Underminer would then question why a surface dweller would want to help him overthrow the surface world, which would give Screenslaver the opportunity to explain how lackadaisical and sickening society has become thanks to corporations that keep everyone enslaved to screens. The same corporations that threaten to destroy Underminer’s domain, and the Supers are defending those corporations and the status quo they peddle. So, for the greater good, the Screenslaver desires a mass reset for the world, a purge to wipe the slate clean and restore stimulation and risk back to the people. To bring everything back to a pure existence, one without corporations, one without Supers, one without screens (told ya we’d come back to this later). So then the story would be about both of them spreading the Supers and government thin and getting rid of them first. Then the world will be ripe for a manual reset, one under the Underminer’s rule, but the Screenslaver’s watchful eye. It won’t be anarchy, it’ll be a shifting of principals and priorities, one for the better because people’s agency and critical thinking will be forced to activate again. Underminer will have his new kingdom to rule and Screenslaver will have a society she can be proud of again, it’s a win-win. But of course, one of them will betray the other, I’m thinking Screenslaver would betray Underminer. She’d slap hypno goggles on him or flash a hypnotic pattern on his screen in the final act, because she isn’t stupid enough to believe the Underminer would hold up his end of the deal. Plus, she’d be replacing several sneaky corporations to one great dictating oppressor, the problem of complacency and not living life for real wouldn’t be solved. Thus, we’d have a juxtaposition between the villains’ idea of coming together and the heroes’ idea of coming together. One keeps up the pretense for ultimately selfish desires, while the other genuinely desires to be on one accord to serve something greater than themselves. Perfect little parallel there. And finally, I’d like to highlight just how engaging these two would be as a character dynamic. You’ve got a basement dwelling, loud and dramatic grouch partnered with a laid-back, sarcastic, know it all who’s got everyone’s good interests at heart in the worst way possible. That’s an interesting premise already, but link that with both of them integrating their plans together and arguing about who’s tech is better for what job and you’ve got sitcom levels of hilarity and entertainment. I truly think it’d be a joy to watch both of these characters fight to chew the scenery of their shared scenes and then to have them bond over their disdain of the world as a common ground. I also would add some moments of them impressing each other in what they do, preferably when battling the Incredibles, their penchant for distractions and disorientation mixed with smart weaponry to use against super powered individuals could be appreciated. The Underminer could remark on how great hypnotizing civilians worked to give him an opportunity to use his drill against them. Screenslaver can appreciate The Underminer’s ultrasonic weapon as something she never thought of, as she focuses mainly on sight. They can recognize the merits of each other and consciously make up what they each lack together and become a real great team. Only for that team to crumble at the most crucial moment because as the saying goes “To be united by hatred is a fragile alliance at best”. Plus it’d add an extra layer of depth to The Underminer’s character, seeing as in the end, he would admit that he was looking forward to ruling the surface with Screenslaver. She was a pain in the neck sometimes, but he considered her a friend. The idea of them making up for what the other lacks is even evident in their visual designs. The Screenslaver’s mask emphasizes the eyes while completely blocking the nose and mouth, while Underminer’s face focuses on his large mouth with mole teeth and his bulbous nose, while his eyes are totally hidden underneath his hardhat. Screenslaver has a thin, lanky build which means he’ll be a faster, more flexible person, but lack power and durability. While Underminer has a stout, short build which means he’ll be all about power and defense, but speed and flexibility are his weak points. Technology wise, Underminer focuses on clunky, heavy metal machinery, with simple and straightforward functions. There is no complexity in his technology, it’s simplicity at its best. Screenslaver on the other hand has very complex and modern tech, with a greater degree of function and subtlety. There is no bold, simple uses of her tech, it’s all about calculation and precision and manipulation. Both characters are clear opposites that can so beautifully fit together to create a real force to be reckoned with as well as a brand new direction to take the story in and be a joy to watch as a character dynamic. Now I _would_ go through the entire plot of a movie with these two as the villains and with Screenslaver’s new backstory, motivations, evil scheme, plus tie all of that to my previous comments detailing Dash’s arc (Part 1 comment), Violet’s arc and Tony Ridenger’s development into an actual character (Part 2 comment), but… just look at how long these comments already are. So I think I’ll leave it there for now and say what a waste this film was. So many fantastic directions this sequel could have went in and they chose possibly the worst direction. Straight into the ground. But hey, at least this video series was a well made, cathartic masterpiece. Thanks GamingMagic13, I wouldn’t have been able to critically breakdown this movie better myself C:
Who cares about the Underminer lol, it was clear he was never meant to be the next major antagonist. I don't like the Incredibles 2 but the Underminer is not the reason people wanted a sequel lol, that's just silly and honestly would have made the movie even worse. He's not interesting. In the first movie, he was just meant to represent the fact that there are more villains out there and that the family will fight them together, and his backstory was clearly poking fun at supervillain monologues about their motivations and backstories. I was honestly surprised they even included him in the sequel at all.
Holy moly that's a really cool interesting idea. Opposite attract plus villain teamup and last minute betrayal? You're pulling foil after foil that I didn't know even possible. Imagine heroes are actually legal back to the end of part 1, which will introduces new gen heroes, which will also create phony trend chasers. Imagine the finale when the young and pretentious heroes have to face the real meaning of being a hero, is to protect innocent ppl and stop the evil, while being helpless before the ppl they're supposed to protect now being mind controlled and the overwhelming evil they're supposed to defeat - who also the results of their own actions. The civilians are no longer just their mean to make money and popularity and the villains are no longer weak helpless normal ppl that have to do dirty stuff because their circumstances that can be easily defeated and used as good cover for newspaper. Imagine at the darkest hours, they see the real heroes, working together as family, risking their lives together to do the right thing, which helps them muster up their courage and actually put their power to good use. Plus the new gen heroes can be such both use for the family and the villain's narratives. They can help ppl realize that not all ppl with power have heroism and question if making heroes legal again is such a good idea? They go against both Bob and Helen' ideologies while both reflect what they could've been. Young guy beat up whatever he can just for show and care more about being recognized than actual helping ppl. Young female hero tries to take all the work to herself and refuse to cooperate cos she thinks she's better than all the male heroes which cause unnecessary damage. Imagine them being team up with Violet and Dash. Violet being overshadowed and has her credit taken while Dash quickly realize using your power thoughtlesly causes harm and has to go after doing damage control. I think that can help their growths a lot too. The kids will have to learn to understand old values while also add their own touch of new value to what defines "heroism". Seeing characters like that makes both villains' motive understandable and even makes viewers root for them. We'll have triple foils in one movie.
Ideas for next "How *insert movie title* destroyed everything": Ralph breaks the internet, Ice Age 5, Hotel Transylvania 4, Shrek the Third , Cars 2, Despicable Me 3 and Rio 2 (if you despise them, of course)
For Ralph breaks the Internet we are going to be here for 9+ hours and GamingMagic13 might actually get rabies. I have never watched a sequel THAT committed to openly breaking almost every fundamental rule of world and character building established by the first one. Like, it happened to such a ridiculous degree it *had* to be done on purpose right?
@@CatalinaLinal7710 That movie just sucks. Wreck it Ralph is one of my most favorite movies of all time and its sequel didnt even try to be canon from the start, and the characters acted drastically different. At least theres no 2 in the title
I mean, that would require one to come up with a way "Cars 2 destroyed everything". Because it really didn't. Many people including this guy trash it for the logicfactor, but it neither really breaks the world itself, nor the characters.
@@lpfan4491 In his _Toy Story 4_ review, he actually mentions that he thinks that _Cars 2_ for all its faults at least kept its characters intact and so actually prefers it over _Toy Story 4_
the uncrush dialogue was one of those jokes where I laughed the first time, but slowly realize just how absolutely stupid it really is over the years 💀
You can have a fun scene with Dash trying to dodge portals. He could have to get close to Void without her portals stopping him. A couple attempts could lead him farther from her until he has a clever idea and is able to get close and incapacitate her for a while.
It would be cool to see a "How The Incredibles created everything" but without comparing it at any moment with the sequel as to forget this last one exists
Climax of the Incredibles: stop a robot from destroying the city and killing thousands Climax of the Incredibles 2: Contain the super baby, isn’t that cute and hilarious?!
Let’s be honest though, getting good at math is far more difficult than running on water and dodging bullets. Definitely a far greater challenge Dash had to face than in the first movie.
Dude, you make great content. Between this, your Toy Story 4 video, and your Top 10 Worst Video Games list, you make incredibly funny, well-constructed videos that are so enjoyable to get immersed in. Keep up the fantastic work, my guy!
@@jeremyusreevu237 Dude for some reason hated the video and needs to insult or make fun of people for liking it. He commented on a lot of other comments here with snarky remarks
When you think about it, Josh Cooley is basically responsible for the downfall of Pixar. You mentioned at the end that Incredibles 2 was the beginning of Pixar's downward spiral, however as you mentioned in the Toy Story 4 series, the main reason why Incredibles 2 ended up as bad as it did was because Toy Story 4's delay caused Incredibles 2 to lose an entire year of production time, and Toy Story 4's delay only happened because Josh Cooley threw out 75% of the film's original script. So yeah, Pixar's ongoing downward spiral can be traced back to Josh Cooley and Toy Story 4.
coming from someone who loved the first movie and watched it several times a year hoping that somehow a sequel would be constructed, this dysfunctional mess we got is borderline betrayal
I kinda feel like the incredibles 2 should of been a tv series. It might not fix the many flaws with the characters but it would fix how the movie moves so quickly.
@@demo2823 The point is they would have put in more conflicts and plots had it been a show series, while still keeping the main elements of the main plot.
@@demo2823 that could be where the Underminer kicks in 0.0. He'd have a more occurring role instead of just being relegated to beginning fodder in the movie.
When it comes to portals, I like the limits the game Portal sets, where there has to be a surface for the portal to be on and you have to visually see where the portal can go, so you don't just summon portals willy-nilly.
@@JonathanGaeta I give the MCU a slight pass because its explained that you need a sling ring at the very least to summon one, plus there requires a lot of concentration. It's still a convenient plot device but it's not as annoying as Void But yeah I agree, its partly why portals and soft-magic systems dont usually do it for me
Well, in the Portal games, it's different to the MCU and Incredibles 2. Believe it or not, as much as I despise PORTAL 2 (my most hated game of all-time), it surprised me that it managed to understand that the portals are only on white surfaces. However, due to the fact that PORTAL 2 completely convolutes and destroys the worldbuilding and that the portal surfaces in the escape and cavern section are ridiculously and unbelievably contrived, even the portaling baffles me, due to how lucky that Chell was able to escape the caves at all. However, this pales to what PORTAL 2 does to all the characters, even going as far as to assassinate all the main ones, and have every other character have no purpose, come out of nowhere, or just simply contradict the first game's existence.
To be completely honest, Screenslaver looked like an awesome villain. The first bits of him during the train chase, his messege to TV while Elastigirl tracked him down and the fight they had in that house (yes, this one too, it had a lot stupid flaws but it could be polished. I wrote comment in previous video about it, I liked the scene, its still cruel that they didn't warn people about the flashing lights tho), it all looked fantastical. BUT when Screenslaver got punched and they revealed that its just a brainwashed pizza guy I strated loosing interest. And when they revealed that Evelynn was behind all of this... I lost it, I was so dissapointed, all the great scenes for Screenslaver fell apart for Evelynns nonsense. I hope this doesn't become a trend in new movies, setting a great villain and then throwing him away is WORSE than having a bad villain from the start, at least you didn't feel that wasted oportunity after the movie.
Why would Violet or dash even think or want the car turning into a boat, when Dash knows he can run on water. And Violet can do her forcefield hamster ball that Dash could probably push or propel in the water.
That’s where a little thing called “writing” happens. You see in the movie, they take the car out there and don’t even know how to get on the ship, and by PURE coincidence, dumb luck, and horrible writing, they are able to get on the boat because of the eject, even though in the first movie, Buddy was only launched like 8 feet in the air, the ejector springs them up in multiple stories into the boat. It makes no sense.
2:30 I think he knew what it meant (his scared reaction alone implies that), but was wondering wtf it had to do with his kid. Probably didn't think his *child* was going to be the one purposefully blowing up in flames
Man, how are you editing all of this? It feels like every sentence you said had individual, carefully picked clip, that perfectly fits what you want to say. I try to imagine how you did this, and it feels like humongous amount of work!
Trust me, it was. It takes a tremendous amount of time to edit my videos the way that I do, but it’s all in service of making the end product better. Glad to see it was worth it :)
@@GamingMagic13 I love how not only do you always pick clips that match with what you’re saying, but depending on what media you’re analyzing, you mostly use clips from that franchise. For example, you used a lot of Incredibles clips in this series, and in your Cars On The Road video, you used a lot of clips from the Cars movies. Clever.
Watched part 1 and 2 and then rewatched The Incredibles. Such a good movie. My only real complaint would be that there was no action scene which heavily leveraged Violet and gave her the time to shine. Bob has the whole opening, the v9 Omnidroid fight, and then sneaking back into the base. Elastigirl gets the plane scene and the base infiltration. Dash gets the blade-copter chase. Violet fights a single guard, and when I was rewatching it I was honestly more impressed by the guard than her. Nameless Guard showed some real intelligence counteracting her powers and if he has just had one other guy as backup to shoot Dash off of him then he might have won.
I think she had a moment but it gets combined with dash in peoples minds because of how it happened Originally when they did that shield run it was just her reaction to save dash with no thought and they were able to turn it into a defense after a moment of confusion kinda like dash with the water run
@@HinataUchiha_22Not to mention the pay off of creating a shield damn near instantly to save her family from Syndromes Jet crashing down on them. Calling back to her fear/inability to do so when on the plane with Helen and Dash. Violet's feats aren't as bombastic as Bobs, Dash's or even Helen's. But they are there and they are paramount in saving her families lives.
I always felt like I was the Weird One for not liking Incredibles 2 (not the worst animated movie I've ever seen--that honor goes to Dreamworks' Trollhunters: Rise of the Titans, but Incredibles 2 is definitely way up there on the list), so it is such a huge relief to hear someone else point out everything that felt wrong about this movie to me. Love love LOVED this little series, and I'm so impressed with the amount of work you put into each video. That being said, I hope you're letting yourself get tons of rest after such a huge effort.
@@drakegrandx5914 The first series is great, the others are up to your personal taste, but the movie is questionable at best. Do with that what you will.
@@drakegrandx5914 The pacing affected the relationships between characters, the dialogue was stunted most of the time, and they tossed in insufferable "self-awareness" that worked against any sense of immersion. Character's development regressed at times (built over the course of the series'). A lot of plot beats and ideas had amazing potential, but they fumbled it like in the second Incredibles movie. There's a lot more to complain about, but the specifics are plot relevant. It's relatively serviceable if you "turn off" your brain, and it still works for some people. The ending though is the equivalent of a atomic bomb going off, as it contradicts and erases the themes, messages, relationships and sacrifices of the franchise as a whole, as well as being mindbogglingly stupid. There's no way to ignore that or wave it away. I hope that helps :)
@@chelle249 Many thanks for your time. I'll mentally prepare myself for a great disappointment then when I will watch the series. I suppose the movie is the last episode of the franchise?
I feel like when the movie was released Brad Bird and the other people who worked on it realized how broken it is and decided to fix some of the things in the incredibles lego game like the underminer fight the family worked together to save people and remembered how their superpowers work and used them in the most logical way.
@@drakegrandx5914 i fully agree, and tho i'm the kinda person to grin like an idiot at a stupid pun, this kind of repetition joke is just something i breeze right past without a glance lol a joke is funny until you hear it said for the 150th time--
Honestly, I really love these reviews of films you do. You made me realize that I was part of the flock of sheep... I CRIED at the part in TS4 where Gabby was redeemed. That's how bad it was. In that poll you put out, I was hoping to see you praise films like TS3 (also I don't mind that Cars on the Road analysis either, I just hope it doesn't ruin anty of the cars characters), but I also did not mind this series either. I always knew something felt off when I watched TS4 and Incredibles 2, but you were able to actually put it in words.
Your conclusion about superheroes starting to get accepted at the end of the first one is the perfect motivation for Evelyn, she wouldn't have to participate in making superheroes look good if superheroes are doing that themselves. She can have the same back story and have her antagonist be the politicians reverting the superheroe prohibition, using those same superheroes as tools. That makes it so much cleaner. Also, after the Underminer attack, the Parrs could have tried to live a mostly normal life so Bob would try to teach Violet to drive, that was she has to stop the car to talk with Dash.
The problem is that in this very movie they showed that superheroes weren't in a position to be accepted again at all, so her motivations still don't make sense.
A re-write idea: Winston IS the villain. Who cares if it's obvious? It's his motivations that would be the interesting part. He really does want heroes to be legal again, he's totally into heroes and villains and their stories, so he creates the Screenslaver. He incites a big enough problem that would bring the heroes to the forefront and show the world how they should be legal and how they really do help more than harm. We can have the Disney Twist Villain™️, we can have the big business bad guy, we can have Evelyn as a red herring, it would have been so easy!
The movie should have started with the robbery that killed their parents. Start the stakes high an actually blame the supers because it was actually their fault. It doesn't have to be as seriously their fault as "they refused to show up at all" an make it more of a "they were busy with other things". Also have the fact that it was actually their fathers fault hidden from them an thus making Evelyn have a real reason to hate supers an also giving her a reason to want supers outlawed again. Make it take place a few years later an have the incredibles be a popular super family, it'd give Evelyn more motivation to attack them directly. The brother who's obsessed with supers doesn't need to exist. With this starting point an plot the movie would have been 100% better even with all the flaws of jack jack.
i agree but i think if they started with that and kept the deleted scene (gazerbeams funeral) and the deavors' *perspective* 😉 being that they didn't show up but in reality they were killed.. that would have made sense for 1/5 themes they went with too
I think the parents should have been killed because the superheroes they called was elastigirl and mr. Incredible. That gives Evelyn a personal vendetta. Better yet, make the parents be killed by / during the Omnidroid battle in the first movie. Either they are killed by collateral of the droid, and she blames the incredibles and all supers. Or that it was a home break in that happened during the Omnidroid battle and therefore the police and loca supers were all busy with big superhero battles and thus ordinary crime was forgotten. After syndrome and his motives became known after the battle, Evelyn would see supers, and the incredibles specifically, as the problem that lead to syndrome, the droid, and the battle and the distraction from normal crime.
I really like these videos and how detailed they are! Your passion really shows off with your knowledge of the characters of the first film, even it’s themes, morals, and story. Keep up the good work and hope things go well!
"Man, I can't wait for Incredibles 3, where we have another f**king dinner scene!" I know you're pretty mad about this, but there's something about the way you say it that just cracks me up.
Here's an idea sence Edna mentions supers having multiple abilities when young. What if supers have multiple powers when young say 3-5, but only keep the one as they grow older (most likely what powers they use more, and in Jack Jack's case give him the possibility of keeping 3-4 powers. This would also play into making Mr.Incredible stressed. Cause normally he'd have elastic girl help him with Dash and viloit with whatever other abilities they had when they were younger.
Thing is this was both canon and not canon in the first movie according to the behind the scenes. Jack Jack's powers are based on the fact that he is a baby which has unlimited potential and can still become anything, with the idea that when he was older he would fit into ine better. This doesn't mean, though, that every baby had the unlimited potential. It was also kind of implied that a super baby doesn't start using the powers chaotically all of a sudden (who would have another baby after 2 almost killed you with laser vision?) because there aren't government provisions for super babies like a special babysitter. The power explosion is limited to moments of terror, and to being abandoned with a stranger exposing them to new things. They also added new powers on top of the ones introduced in the movie and Jack Jack Attack which made him go from having confirmed limitations to just being a convenient plot tool or deus ex machina. They took it too far with no discipline in restraining themselves or molding to what was already established.
The argument that Helen can just close her eyes is kind of weak. Light can pass through flesh quite easily if its bright enough, and Evelynn is not an incompetent tech designer. She probably would have thought of this oversight and cranked the brightness up to eye watering levels.
I just recently, and I mean literally yesterday, discovered this channel and it has easily become my favorite channel. After binging the toy story 4 videos I love how passionate you get about what you are talking about. And the editing is incredible for these super long videos. Truly wonderful work.
Really? I never seen the first Hocus Pocus, don’t judge me, but if you’re saying the second movie is bad then I’m just gonna stick with the first movie
@@JonathanGaeta No, I definitely don’t recommend anyone watch Hocus Pocus 2 unless they’re really curious about it! The first movie is an entertaining 90’s cheesy Halloween kids movie, with some dark elements sprinkled here and there. The filmmakers knew what the movie was and went with it. The sequel however is a very confusing and very dumb mess that has no idea what it’s trying to be!
Not to be rude, but while I haven't seen the second Hocus Pocus, I have seen the first one. These "Destroyed Everything" videos are for awful sequels to Incredibly well-crafted films. Hocus Pocus is fun, but it isn't "The Incredibles" or "Toy Story 3".
When you were talking about how Dash could have used his math-knowledge to help out in the climax, Hamster and Gretel's Math Punch episode came to my mind. Gretel had a problem with paying attention to the subject, and that causes problems when she tries to solve the issues with impulsive decisions, but when her brother is put into genuine danger, she has to pay attention and put the skills into use. She successeed and saves her sibling, while learning a valuable lesson about the importance of the subject and planning forward. And this show's main focus are also superheroes, so we are even on a brand with that example. (Also both Dash and Gretel are excitable little kids with ADHD)
"Honey, where's my super suit?" Forever one of my favorite scenes of all time! Absolutely hilarious! "You tell me where my suit is! We're talking about the greater good!" "Greater good?! I AM YOUR WIFE! I'm the greatest GOOD you are EVER gonna get!! 😂😂😂😂😂
I totally forgot that this one ended on a cliffhanger-esque setup for a third movie. Where the characters have gone just leaves whoever takes it next with nothing to work with.
Literally the entire movie feels like it was on a loop, which is a shame because watching the first one you'd think Metroville was a lived-in city with a rich history of heroes and villains to work off of.
28:30 about this scene, it also bothers me that dash doesn't instantly consider running over there while holding violet considering running on water was one of the most significant scenes for dash discovering his powers in the first movie
Yeah, but that's only 2. Honestly, a small throw away line of "When Violet was little, she could make herself invisible, make force fields and *insert third thing*" Make is a point that MOST SUPER KIDS have like, 3 or 4 powers. It's weird for Jack Jack to have more than 5 powers, since that's the normal amount! Also, we don't know if superpowers are inherent, but if they are, show us more super parents! There is no way that only Ellen and Bob had kids out of ale very super hero. Frozon doesn't have kids, that's fine, not everyone does, but no one else did either? We know that one superhero had 5 adopted kids, could they have powers? Who knows, because this movie doesn't even consider it
@@JDM-is-my-name Pretty much. Syndrome got all the old mainstream-supers, but there is no way he somehow got their potential kids killed too. There was a deleted scene where it is stated supers reproducing is illegal, but not only is the canon not bound to it because...ya know, the scene was deleted...but also because these two have kids and never heared any of it, probably because they already technically weren't super heroes anymore during that timeframe.
@@lpfan4491 they did get married before they became illegal, and I'd imagine that'd also somehow be illegal because, at the time, marriage = children or at least sex. Again, a throwaway line would have fixed the whole thing for me, lol, just say that the other supers with kids didn't want to be there, small lines, simple background noise could have really helped the story make more sense, even if only a little bit
@@JDM-is-my-name Just gonna start by saying I agree with you, but no other supers have multiple powers in the movies other than Jack-Jack and Violet (mostly due to poor world building because the story (at least the first one) wasn't about the world). So your point of multiple kids having multiple powers is never shown or said in the movies so I don't know where that point of yours came from. And no adult supers are shown with multiple powers either, unless the flying ones have another
I think what bothers me the most about this movie more than anything is the title. Incredibles 2. It sounds like the crew knew it was gonna be bad because of how little time they had with it's production, so they probably just took "The" out of the title so that people who hated "Incredibles 2" can easily separate it from "The Incredibles". The lack of a "The" also kinda fits with how stupid everyone is here.
What I really really liked about this video (aside from the bear perfect analysis breakdown and top notch editing) is how you show no restraint to let out profanity when you censored almost every one in your toy story 4 analysis. Great stuff man
Having binged these videos over the past few days, I feel bad for primarily listening to the audio over watching the editing; your interjections of “Deja vu” and the “But Ah!” Timones, anything you want in quotes being accompanied by visuals Phineas and Ferb’s mom, and all the one off clips to accentuate your dialogue does so much to keep such long videos entertaining! Your writing is obviously the driving factor, but your reading is also engaging. The passion and talent you have is palpable and frankly impressive lol More therapeutic than you know for me to listen to someone thrash this movie relentlessly
One thing that really bothers me that nobody mentions is the movie doing a Chekhov’s gun with the living room water feature. The show sets up the fancy room with all the water, dash then goofs around with the buttons, I’m pretty sure Bob falls into it at some point (I only watched it once forever ago, forgive my memory.) So when Frozone shows up to fight the Walmart brand supers later in the show, in that exact room, I was thinking, “oh yeah! Dash can open the floor and Frozone will have tons of water to use and take on all the newbies at once! It’ll be awesome.” And they never did that!! Why bother with so many scenes about the stupid water? It was a small detail that I found irritating.
Okay. Time for a "How Ralph Breaks the Internet Destroyed Everything" series of videos. (just kidding, you take your time and that's perfectly legit, it's your right - it can be an idea though...)
I very much like how you're willing to admit that the musical score, amongst other things, are better than Incredibles 1, because as much as this movie is a trainwreck, you still show that you're openminded that it does a few things right, it also proves that you're not here just for mindless bickering, which oftentimes hate reviews tend to fall in that rabbit hole. Another good watch.
I once went to a stage play with my family and i hated it. The plot was, to put it bluntly, surreal. Afterwards i told my mom that this play was the worst thing i have ever seen and she scolded me and said im stupid because i didn't understand the themes and metaphors. As a matter of fact, i did understand the themes and metaphors. I don't know how i could not have understood them when they were being shoved into my face at the expense of everything else, especially the plot.
Dark science. Cloning. Something Syndrome knew. But for real if they actually go this route because they ran out of villains for Incredibles 3 then I’d be more disappointed.
God, that final bit talking about how you're worried of how future Pixar films would turn out hits so hard and true bro. I too also thought this once great company would churn out banger after banger once they announced future films coming up. And while they did have some stinkers before and after Inside Out (because I consider that the "return" to Pixar's "renaissance" at least for a short time), it was still a company you know can put out a damn good film most of the time. Now I'm damn-near completely lost all faith and expectations from them ever putting out some true 9/10 or 10/10 films, and at best I'm just hoping it would be a 5/10 at MOST. This was an incredible breakdown series (much like your TS4 videos) and I can't wait to see what other films you either tear down or praise in high regards in great detail in the future.
When Syndrome 'monologued' it was always in service of the plot, he did it while interrogating Mr Incredible and to rub Mr Incredible's face in his downfall. The villain here just monologues to pad the run time.
The funny things is Eva's entire plan and motive could have made complete sense if written differently. Imagine that due to the destruction of the robot in the original, public opinion of supes had gone up, but failure to stop the Underminer shows how quickly the public can flip flop. Thats why the bro character steps in, to help provide a sense of mission control and more delicately bring the public around to supes being around while providing an "insurance" program for collateral damage. Thats why Eva though helps Elasti Girl. She wants to bring Supes back up to close to their glory days, than sabotoge them completely so that no one ever wants to legalize them again. It would still be stupid, but it would make better sense in my opinion.
Incredibles 3 starts: "Wow can you believe they made superheroes illegal again? That's craaaaazy"
Incredibles 3 ends: “Yay, Supers are finally legal again for the *first time.* What? That happened at the end of the last? No it didn’t.”
@@ZorrotheArtistincredibles 2 was good
I agree-- some sloppy excuse... Here's my issue though... The first Incredibles is ACTUALLY surrounding Mr Incredible. Like, the first teaser TRAILER STARS Mr. Incredible trying to pull his pants on. The reason the villain exists is because of Bob Parr. The story, really, really surrounds this character. I can't see why that is not a good thing on this movie. (again, the villain, even with an amazing design and purpose, she was a waste.)
@AidenElenaIncredibles 5 starts: “Superheroes are cancelled on Twitter!”
@@joaquinm9148Incredibles 6: all supers are DEAD, guess we can finally make them legal....
Wait, wdym we did that already?
While Incredibles 1 did have contrivances, I think it was actually a Pixar writer who said, "Coincidences that get your characters into trouble are great, coincidences that get your characters out of trouble are lazy". The tracker moment in Incredibles 1 is former, Incredibles 2 is chock full of the latter.
Yep, he pointed out that EXACT rule when he covered Toy Story 4
Hey, here's an idea: Put the super suit cameras on upside down, so when the Heroes talk to you, they appear right side up on your screen, then edit the footage of their good deeds so it appears right side up, *AND THEN* replay it - Right side up - on the news later!!
To put it into perspective: If a coincidence gets you into trouble, that just feels like how life is sometimes, so the viewer won't mind. If a coincidence gets you out of trouble, it feels like the hand of God just decided to take over the story for a bit, which feels awkward to the viewer. Now this COULD work, if luck/fate is a tangible living thing in your story that can be influence with a proper ruleset, ala Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. But it could also be really bad if it feels random and too convenient.
@@GBDupree Even troublesome contrivances need to be kept to a minimum, though, because ultimately, conflict should arrive out of character decisions, not dumb (bad) luck.
@@BWMagus Certainly, but in the case that a character makes a bad decision that gets him into a fight, and despite being the better fighter still gets hurt badly because of bad luck during the fight, I think people won't mind that. It raises the stakes, while making the consequences still all the character's fault, since their decision led them there in the first place. Bad luck just happens sometimes, and people won't even notice it as long as it isn't a huge plot moving moment. But yes, if it is a major moment, it shouldn't be left up to chance, because it's better for the character to be actively influencing it or being actively influenced by the actions of someone else.
You know what the worst part is they obviously had planned some form of good writing in this movie because there's a deleted scene that would have absolutely grounded this movie and helped it exponentially. Basically Bob has this little speech/Memorial for gazer beam and it's just full of good writing, it's just so grounded to reality that it you could have showed me it and I totally would have believed that it was deleted scene from the first movie. It would really show the effects of what happened after the first movie whereas since it is deleted we don't get a trace of the effects that syndrome caused.
True. Syndrome essentially genocided a bunch of supers. And the impact of that is never even hinted at in this film.
I think the Incredibles sudden character traits could've been used as a good hero family plot. Like now that the world has been save, Bob and his family are homeless, and jobless. Have Bob try to be proactive in the lives of the kids, even maybe to an annoying degree, maybe even have it where Bob and Ellen save a shop from thugs or something, and care more about getting back to his family (thus less spotlight), while Ellen tries too hard being a hero (thus getting more spotlight). And you could have the rich guy meet Ellen, and offer her a job, while Bob is fine being a house husband. You can then add the Screensaver plot (thoe I would wish for a better one). Have Bob now takeaway Violet's job, of watching over Dash, and Jack-Jack, as Bob would have more father and son moments, leaving Violet without an excuse to be less sociable (and most likely missing the mother and daughter moments). With Violet trying and failing at being more social, maybe even getting picked on more, thus becoming more angry and aiming it at her family. Where, Bob tries to help her, but makes it worse. Now with Ellen we can have the Screensaver plot, with some minor changes, like maybe after saving the "day" so many times recently sparked her youthful ambitions (while back in the first movie, Bob had his nightly heroics, so is less enthusiastic about it). And now doing hero work nearly 24/7 Ellen starts missing her family, with the end of the Screensaver plot conjoining. And the Incredible Family hugging it out. Of course Violet and Ellen will have a bonding moment and grow from this. Maybe at the end have Bob try to be more of a outdoors camper, and Ellen be more encouraging of the kids running the mission.
Like I said the Screensaver plot remains, including the kids learning to take leadership, but with smaller heroic moments. Doing it this way I think would give a good reason for the villain to be less of focus point, and since there will be smaller hero moments, allows the kids to shine more, and gain the experience for the villain plot.
@@Mister_Clean Yeah, they kind of just have their “look at these new designs and power concepts!” montage with the new supers without really addressing the emotional reality that the supers Bob and Helen knew were murdered. Kind of indicative of the larger difference - and imo problem - with the sequel; the original balanced darker elements while still being family friendly, there was no sense of dumbing down for the audience or shying away from things, but the sequel sacrifices this for comedy and a lackluster plot. I mean, we literally see the corpse of Gazerbeam and his last words in the first, the Incredibles feel like a real family, their problems and friction, but their love and connection as well. In the sequel they felt somewhat - if not flanderized certainly less fleshed out and dimensional. The kronos scene is a meme now, but there’s a reason it’s been a standout scene from a great movie for so many years. Watching Mr. Incredible have to go on the emotional, psychological journey of realizing that fellow supers from the good ol days have been systematically lured and killed as a part of Syndrome’s plan, and that his family could be targeted next is so impactful. The scene mentioned is more along the lines of what my expectations were for an Incredibles sequel. Not that it had to be super dark or dramatic, but the sense that the things that happened in this world mattered, that they had consequences. We didn’t need Bob to be in some state of mourning the whole movie, but especially if the plot was going to center around making supers legal again, some deeper acknowledgement would have been nice.
Instead we got a baby battling a raccoon.
It really does feel like Disney wanted to dumb the movie down.
God, that’s fucking sad. Gazerbeam and some of the other Supers that were killed were Bob and Helen’s friends, appeared at their wedding. They lost contact because of the Superhero act and moved on, only for the other heroes to fall into Syndrome’s honey trap of ‘wanna be a hero again?’, used as fodder just to upgrade the Omnidroid’s intelligence and model. Syndrome, in his pettiness, only saw them as ways to improve his death machine to gain up to the level of killing Mr Incredible (just for a show in which people got killed/injured just so he can show off his tech), but Bob saw them as friends. Not just a suit and a cape, but people like them with lives and families.
I always love the "who wrote this?" line. I've literally been saying that after bad movies and shows for years, love to see it
"Who wrote this?! Who wrote this script?!" Is definitely a staple catchphrase
The answer is most likely 'a room full of execs'
Don't say stupid things.
Almost as iconic as the Over The Hedge clip with "WHAT!??"
The best clip is "What are you doing!?". Though now I have a bad habit of saying it when I play videogames and the AI is just beyond stupid and makes horribly wrong moves.
The Screenslaver was probably the worst choice she could have made for a decoy villain. Elastigirl just fought a villain who openly told everyone on TV about his mind control powers and suddenly she declares war on all non-supers while wearing weird goggles. It should be easy for everyone to find out what is happening here. By having the Screenslaver tell everyone about his hypnotic powers, she literally lays out all of her cards and now everyone knows what she is going to use to execute her plan.
So out of all the animated film villains in the 2010's m, she ranks pretty high? Even with the bad guy in big hero 6?
@@Thomasmemoryscentral The villain in *Big Hero 6* is bad, but at least they don't spend the entire movie working against their aims.
@@talhahhussain5603 THAT WAS HER MISTAKE
@@storm_fling1062 NIIIICE
Great name
I would like to note, however, that the scene where Helen locates Bob in the first movie is _explicitely_ portrayed as a dramatic scene. There is this contrast between Bob frantically but sneakily scrolling through the Omnidroid's files, understanding how big of a threat the whole situation is, and Edna slowly and theatrically showing to Helen the remote and Helen slowly and uncertainly going to tap the locator function, until the very moment where she taps it, escalating Bob's situation in a desperate and impossible escape scene. Basically, the whole scene is played out as tense, and it makes us think "Please Helen don't, we know that you're doubtful and scared, but this is not the right time at all".
In short words, this scene is not played out as a "convinience", but as a "terrible coincidence", so when we watch it, it doesn't make us roll our eyes, but actually feels believable.
Very good points, though I think you should check the definition of localize.
@@Squeaky245 Ouch, sorry, non-native English speaker so I mixed up the two. 😅
@@drakegrandx5914 No biggie. You actually speak better English than plenty of native speakers I've seen.
I agree, that’s what I got from watching the scene. Like I think it was clearly intentional that it was supposed to be a terrible coincidence for dramatic effect. Didn’t feel like a flaw at all.
There is a big difference between coincidences that help the main characters and coincidences that hurt them. One increases the stakes, the other undermines the stakes.
42:20 Honestly, the writers did have something to work with here. Elastigirl's new suit has a camera built into it, meaning that Evelyn can see and hear through it and therefore knows exactly where she is and what she is discussing with the others and could direct the mind-controlled supers into ambushing them. Knowing this, Elastigirl could then exclaim that she needs to change so that she can't be tracked anymore and then be offered her Incredibles suit. It gives an in-universe reason why she would switch to something that is more iconic to us when there is otherwise more pressing matters. It's a shame the writers never thought about this; they just needed Helen in the suit people recognize.
A kid could comment on the rip, then Bob/Helen could remember the camera/tracking when thinking about the suit. The parents can bicker about what to do about this, perhaps Helen saying she can stay out (after being the one to be active in the movie), but Bob encouraging her to fight despite the risks (accepting her being the one in the action finally). Then either Violet or Dash can pull out the suit and have a funny line.
The thing is, the camera is also built into Bob's and Frozone's suits. To worry about it, and if the villain knows what your plan is because of it, is irrelevant. Bob's in his red suit, Frozone has always been solo, and Helen's suit is the only one that needs to be changed because she's no longer an independent superhero. Despite the situation, it makes sense for her to change her suit to show her alignment more with her family.
@@kyrroti exactly like "did you think we would forget OUR MOM" or some shit.
@@mirroughs7729 I mean kind of with the alignment thing but the main issue still stands that the logical excuse to switch suits midfight and in the middle of a potential crisis still needs something, besides I just realized the camera thing could be solved by crushing the tiny things or getting the crusher to do it if he was still even in the film or getting the characters to come up with some sort of creative solution that would involve doing something with the cameras. Yes we are still running into some sort of logical contrivance with the solution originally purposed by op but their could be a good reason to keep the cameras around and if they came up with a solution for the rest of em. Also the kids don't have one so Helen and the kids can do something without being detected. We would have to come up with some sort of solution in writing or else both the proposals wouldn't actually work cause the camera scare is still around.
The Lego game actually did this too!
What I find most amusing (and painful) about how you mention the "blink and you'll miss it" nature of the Elastigirl versus Frozone and Mr Incredible battle is that, in the theatre, I actually sneezed twice during that scene, which of course I closed by eyes, and by the time I had opened them again to look at the screen, it was a shot of all of the characters standing there, no goggles, conflict totally resolved. And I genuinely thought I stroked out.
I was drunk during the entire movie (or fell asleep) so by the time that scene came up I had completely shut down my brain.
@@eatatjoes6751 Sounds like a better time than actually watching it
I actually looked down for something in the theater and looked back up and the fight was over.
@@Bthakilla4rilla Yep. 100% forgot the fight was there.
The thing about Doofenshmirtz's pettiness is, it's understandable. His parents taught him that the world hates him no matter what he does. Evelyn on the other hand had two loving parents who were killed. She had a successful life with her brother as an inventor. She has no f*cking reason to feel the need to destroy a man's livelihood or feel wronged by him because of that pizza. In fact, here's a better idea Ms. Deavor; you could have just put mind control lights into eleastagirl's suit since you had the bright idea to put a camera in there in the first place!!!!
Plus Phineas and Ferb is literally a comedy, the pettiness of Doof's actions is part of the joke lol. He's not meant to be a serious threat and every time he succeeds, he almost immediately regrets it lol
They're losing to Phineas and Ferb and a lego game. This 2018 sequel is losing to a lego game and a disney cartoon from the late 2000's.
Keep that in mind
@@Thomasmemoryscentral ¿?
Wait wasn't he raised by ocelots?
@@nekonomicon2983 Yes, but he also spent his childhood dressed up as a Lawn Ornamente in his father's garden.
Heinz' backstory is....weird.
Here's a simple fix that automatically makes Evelyn's actions make a million times more sense: What if, crazy idea, after the Incredibles and Frozone stop both the Omnidroid and the Underminer, the people love them again, and the powers that be start putting into motion the legislation to make supers legal again, UPON WHICH, Winston meets up with the Pars and Frozone to offer them the same deal he does in this movie, except here it's to boost their positive image further and to sway the public opinion even more to their favor, which they do, thanks to Elastigirl's heroics. So, Evelyn starts growing worried that supers are going to be legal again and her life-long goal ruined, so she decides to stop that from happening by inventing a new super-villain for them to fight, so as to hypnotize them into damaging people's perception about them, as she does in the film, starting with the "Screenslaver" attacking the Monorail. So you have the same plot beats and the same story (stupid as said story is), but at least now it makes sense.
One idea I had is having Evelyn not be Winston's sister, but maybe a distant cousin (or not related at all) who was wronged by Winston in some way, so she became an inventor and infiltrated his company. Once she was in and Winston starts his plan to get the public to like supers, she creates the Screenslaver and leaves enough clues at the crime scenes to frame Winston as the villain. This will also give supers a bad rep since they chose to align with Winston.
So basically, if they "did nothing"(interms of retconning these guys at least being excused from the ban after the event), then "everything would proceed in an orderly fashion"?
Man, that storywriting is very ironic.
@@AeridisArt better villain script than the one in the movie
I found out another cool detail about Incredibles 2 from another video. In the first film, a woman confused Syndrome for a superhero named Fironic. But in this film, we see Fironic in the flashback scene, and his costume does look pretty similar to Syndrome's costume.
Okay, that actually really neat!
Omg the film actually did something right!
It's kinda funny how the actions and words of the Screensaver don't align at all with Evelyn, but alygn perfectly with her brother. It is like he was planned to be the twist villain but they changed it because it wasn't "subversive" enough.
So you're telling me they thought Evelyn was so obvious thar nobody would expect her? Reverse reverse tropes?
@@demo2823 Yeah like this "Hey guys what about we make the obvious red herring the actual villain, that would be soooo clever"
Yeah he was but then they just slapped on Evelyn because Winston was too obvious.
@@drikeatmey It worked in Knives Out though. And it was exactly because the regular red herring trope was so overused in detective stories. It all comes down to execution really, because for what it was, Evelyn as the Screensaver just didn't work or made any sense.
Perhaps if it were like a double-twist villain like situation, where her brother was manipulating her to be a villain all along (through hypnosis most likely) and fabricate a motivation and her eventual defeat so the heroes are fed a competent enough and logically sound villain to justify their heroism, maybe the story could've worked, but this is just going too far honestly, too many layers of irony. Most audiences would leave just as confused, I think.
@@eduardoaguero1220 So they though Evil Endeavor was less obvious?!?
I was wondering why Helen never decided to just close her eyes when she knew the goggles were going to be turned back on.
It was a massive liability to monolog like that, and it certainly hurt in the long term.
How do we even know she didn't close her eyes? Those lights on the goggles completely hide her eyes from us, and they are nothing like her mask which sticks to her eyelids and close with her eyes. And the way she tensed and resisted, it's obvious that her eyes would be closed. I can't imagine anyone making those movements with their eyes open. If her eyes were wide open, that would seem freaky and unnatural. So obviously, Helen closed her eyes but the goggles on her face flashed so bright and so closely that the light got through her eyelids and she ended up hypnotized.
@@SeanWheeler100 Not sure of how you got to that conclusion...
@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ Just look at Helen's face when Evelyn turned the goggles back on and imagine how her eyes would be. They would be closed, wouldn't they? In fact, the way she resisted means the mind control isn't as instantaneous as the first time. The first time, Evelyn interrupted Helen with the goggles, so her eyes were still open. This time, Helen listened to Evelyn's monologue and watched her push the button so she was more prepared, and she closed her eyes when the goggles turned back on. However, the flickering bright blue light irritated her eyes in a way that forced her to peek and that was how she was brainwashed again.
@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ yo I’m not agreeing with his claim or anything but he explicitly states how he came to that conclusion idk how you’re confused 😂
@@SeanWheeler100 The problem with that is that once again the supers with goggles on and the normal people just looking at a screen have their hypnotism treated very differently. They're shown wide eyed and unblinking when you see their face because a single blink can allow them to regain consciousness long enough to consider just keeping their eyes closed. If Helen could do that then she would have won during the resistance, were her eyes closed to start with. If their entire plot relies on us knowing that the light of the screen is made irresistable even to closed eyes, then Evelyn could at least have mentioned that in a monologue about how she achieved hypnotism.
This movie, especially when compared to how incredible the original was, is a good example of what happens when a movie is created from a corporate order rather than being born from a genuine, creative idea.
Also, did you see what I did there?
Yup. And that is pretty much the exact state of Disney with their movies/shows right now. Nothing has felt like it’s been done out of genuine love for these franchises and wanting to continue them with new creative ideas, but just “This thing was popular in the past so let’s just do that again so we can make more money!”.
I always thought a great arc for Dash would've been Dash discovering he's actually pretty smart.
For example through the tutoring session with his dad he actually grasps pretty complex math problems or manages to master something he didn't understand pretty quickly, with his dad's help, and finding he enjoys being good at math allowing them to bond over a shared interest. This would let Mr Incredible achieve something he can be proud of as a father and be closer to his son, while adding a bit more depth to his character.
This arc could then progress for Dash through school where he goes from being the jock/class prankster to finding he likes learning, maybe mending bridges with the teacher from the first movie, and perhaps alienating him from his friends until his new found passion for learning helps him and his friends achieve something.
Finally the arc could culminate with him using math or science to solve some issue in the final fight intelligently making the family acknowledge he's not just the dumb kid brother/speedster but has other talents to contribute to the team.
If you made it here thanks for your time reading this long post.
If we take some of speedster logic from Flash then Dash could possibly think much faster than a normal person due to his brain having to react to what is going on around him as he is running. If we use realism any speedster with a mind that can't keep up with their body is going to always crash into something.
That would've been great! A nice, nuanced nod to the idea that a super's talents and interests and personality don't need to only revolve around their main powers. I would've loved it, would've been adorable, and it would've given us a fun Bernie appearance as well.
i could see this more as an episode of a tv show for the incredibles, an arc that big would heavily distract from the main plot and overstay its welcome. not too mention it wouldnt make much sense in a "final" movie
@@aerostrafe1075 While true, fast processing times don't mean greater intellect. It just means that you have a lot of time to think things through. There's thing like intuitive understanding that just don't happen if you're just fast. At the same time, you'd be some sort of computational whiz since you have the time to make calculations on the fly.
chef's kiss
Here's another thing you didn't even bring up: If Dash and Violet are vulnerable to being crushed in the vents, which is something that the movie calls attention to, why did Jack-Jack becoming huge in the vents not kill them?
also...VIOLET HAS A SHIELD, AN IMPENETRABLE SHIELD ABILITY.
Because Big Baby Ha-Ha Funny
@@ShadowKamehameha32 agree
@@ShadowKamehameha32 I once went to a restaurant called Cracker Barrel which has a toy shop in it and I actually saw a action figure of the big Jack Jack.
Except the vents theirselves were being crushed, from the top to bottom. Jackjack just broke them
It’s kinda sad how a lot of people just speed through this movie and act like most of the flaws are invisible. It wouldn’t be that much of a stretch to look at some of the strong flaws in this movie. Especially if you’re gonna be frozen in place looking at this movie
This is how I feel about a lot of movies. People tend to want to ignore flaws in movies they want to enjoy, which is fine, but it's frustrating when they pretend that those flaws straight-up don't exist. It's important to acknowledge flaws, especially obvious ones, because it makes us more aware of the quality we should expect from our entertainment.
@@veronica-mew I know. I've seen so many people confuse "suspension of disbelief" for "straight up abandoning the idea of logic because films aren't real".
@@jeremyusreevu237 yes. I personally hate it when people tell me to just "turn my brain off and enjoy the movie" when I'm trying to talk about movie flaws because it sounds like they think movies don't need logic and, if something doesn't makes sense, it doesn't matter because movies are dumb anyway. It's very frustrating.
It took me until "invisible" before i noticed.
Well I think I can kinda understand how in theaters since you're probably not going to pick up on a lot of things unless you're an analytical type or a huge fan of the last movie or both.
Others might need to be shown all the inconsistencies like this video series has done in order to be convinced.
I mean I knew the movie wasn't as good as the first but I still liked it. I didn't realize how much of a huge cluster fuck of a mess it was though.
You should really do a "how ralph breaks the internet destroyed everything" series. It didnt even try to be canon (which it obviously isnt) seeing how screwed up the characters and everything is, but wow does it deserve it. Wreck it Ralph is one of my most favorite movies ever and breaks the internet is such disappointing garbage!! At least it doesnt have a 2 in the title.
Oh, I would LOVE to see this
I think he teased it in his top 20 worst movies video. Until it happens, you can watch Rokotars video on it.
Be there early 2023
YES. I was so annoyed at that movie!
Better than the Emoji Movie
Also, people say the second movie is “dated”, but the first movie showed arcade games from the 80s in 2012 and literally no one complained
_How does this make any sense?_
1:27:00 Bob and Helen were much more observant and smart in the first film. The movie also treated its audience as observant and smart. Having the cave spell out KRONOS just to be used as the password. Or showing that the robot has steadily been improved in its design and AI with nothing more than some flashing screens. Not to mention the subtle interpersonal drama throughout.
The Incredibles: Not just another superhero movie
The Incredibles 2: Just another bad superhero movie
May I *_PLEASE_* remind everyone The Incredibile *_DOES_* have Ejector Seats?!?!? Did *_NO ONE_* remember the scene in the beginning of The Incredibles where Bob *_USED THE EJECTOR SEAT TO REMOVE BUDDY PINE FROM THE CAR?!?!?_* Where did that scene go that it vanished from everyone's brains except mine?!?!? Where?!? *_WHERE?!?!?!?_*
@@JadenMoon1475 facts lol, I acknowledge that scene did happen ❤😂
@@JadenMoon1475
Oh, brilliant, that’s one thing the movie got right. Now how about the other ninety-nine things?
As far as the comparison between Syndrome and Evelyn, you did hit the basic points as far as motivation, character writing, and general impact on the story and why Syndrome is a far better villain then Evelyn will ever be. But there's actually one thing that I think people missed with regards to these two.
Syndrome actually is a twist villain. But a far better executed one.
Syndrome is like any twist villain, he shows up mid-way through the story, his presence comes out of nowhere, and his identity is a shock to the audience as much as it is to the characters in the story. The thing is though, I was there back in 2004 when The Incredibles came out, I remember how the advertising campaign and the story itself never directly foreshadowed who Syndrome was and what his role in the story is. You see him in the shadows after Mr Incredible defeats the Omni-droid the first time around, but you never get the impression he's the man behind the plan, nor is he Buddy Pine, former disillusioned Mr. Incredible fan-boy. So when he actually shows up, his role and true identity are a genuine shock to the audience, but like any twist villain, there's enough foreshadowing and clever build-up on repeat re-runs that it doesn't feel the writer's did it to be all "What a Twist!"
Contrast Evelyn who has all the subtle foreshadowing of the moon in Majora's Mask, is telegraphed so blatantly it's almost painful, and who's presence feels like the film is dragging it's proverbial feet until it wants to pull the big "Gotcha!" moment. It's not clever, subversive, or shocking, especially considering that modern Disney has used and abused the twist villain so much that it would be no surprise that it would bleed over into pixar as well. And much like modern Disney, the twist villains aren't interesting, intimidating, and only exist to play into baby's first thematic tie-in with what the movie wants to say and the characters re-iterating said theme that is bludgeoned into the audience's head with a cinderblock.
Also, let's discuss voice-acting. Jason Lee's performance as Syndrome is easily the highlight of his career, and I think anyone who dismisses him as just "The My Name is Earl Guy" is doing him a complete disservice in his performance. He hits all the notes that Syndrome hits, the hurt and disillusionment of his childhood incident, the menace and sociopathic glee in his voice when he taunts Mr. Incredible after he's been captured, and his complete indifference to his subordinates and consequences to live out his narcissistic desires. It's brilliant, and I wish he honestly got more roles like that instead of another goddamn Alvin and The Chipmunks movie. Contrast that with whoever voices Evelyn, who isn't intimidating at all, and who only exists to make "Snarky" casual danger dialogue that feels ripped out of the MCU (And trust me, that's a trope of mine I wish would die in an inferno).
Now, I'll propose another theory, that Winston was always meant to be the twist-villain. I mean, a guy whos' suspiciously enthusiastic about super-heroes and who's more than willing to give resources to prop them up suddenly being the villain? Cliche, but it could work. In fact, I think in some ways the writers wanted to go that route all along. Then Bob Odenkirk got cast, they shit themselves at how older audiences would predict the twist, and frantically re-wrote it to make Evelyn the villain all along. Leaving aside the fact that, as predictable as it is, I doubt anyone would complain about Saul Goddamn Goodman being the villain of a pixar movie, it also retroactively hurt the conflict because you can tell that Evelyn doesn't have nearly the depth that Winston may have had if they stuck with the original plan, and therefore none of the good qualities she needs to be an effective villain.
I only write this out, because even at the time of release, I fucking hated Evelyn as a villain so much. Syndrome is my favorite Pixar villain, I could write an essay on why he works so brilliantly. And to see a three-dimensional villain like him who made an indelible impact on me as a kid replaced with someone flatter than a Paper Mario character just pisses me off.
Anyways, great video essay series as always. I look forward to hearing more of these in the future.
Honestly, I don't even think Syndrome is a perfect twist villain. A twist villain usually has three steps.
Step1: Establish the character
Step2: Build towards them being a villain
Step3: Be a well-written villain character that the narrative would undoubtably be worse without.
Syndome doesn't quite hit Step 2, there isn't really any forshadowing that his now-tainted view on mr. incredible is ever going to come back, the connection is only explained once he enters the stage again.
@@lpfan4491 Maybe not "perfect", I will admit, with regards to step 2, other than the scene of him pissed off in the back of the squad car as a kid, and the few monologuing bits about how he got rich, there isn't a definitive path that would inform the audience he would be Syndrome until later. When Syndrome showed up, I had completely forgotten about Buddy in the overall plot, I thought that he was a one-off character who would have no further impact, so unless you go and rewatch the movie and point out all the little clues, it can be hard to see the complete path that's trying to have the villain go from "Ego-centric but otherwise not-wholly unlikeable kid who wants to be an actual hero and feels hurt that he's rejected" to "Disillusioned man-child who more or less commits genocide on an entire group to get back at one person who slightly wronged him and to stroke his own ego as the hero we always imagined himself to be"
But, I will say that even if Step 2 is lacking. Step 3 makes up for it. Again, maybe not "perfect", no character really is, just like no story really is. But once the story gives the time necessary to establish Syndrome as a villain (Something that Evelyn and the modern Disney villains I alluded to sorely lack, more focused on the "Twist" part instead of giving them ample time to focus on the "Villain" part), it becomes clear that if Syndrome hadn't been nearly as captivating as he was, he wouldn't work as well as he does. Syndrome may not be a perfect twist villain, but he is a damn sight better executed twist villain than Evelyn was. That was the crux of the argument, how even in the first movie, the idea of the villain being a twist villain, was still better executed than the sequel trying this same idea.
100% this.
Thank you!
All this time and I never knew Syndrome was voiced by Dave
@@anomaly395 the incredibles 2 is good
actually, the idea of dash being super smart makes some sense because his brain would have to be able to work faster and process things quicker due to his super speed so that it makes sense that he would be able to learn things easier than other people, kind of turns him into the flash but still he could probably find a manual on the boats controls and read it in seconds, memories it and direct the family on how to stop it.
You can even twist it another way. Maybe Dash isn't particulary smart, but due to the speed he has to process information, he can learn more in the same amount of time as others and thus through HARD WORK still become competent and smart.
I don't think that's totally true. In the first movie we see him run into a ton of bugs. He didn't dodge or notice them, he hit them so I don't think his brain functions faster.
@@cryguy0000 to once again reference the flash batman has punched him in the face before despite his in universe supper speed thinking, besides to be able to run that fast and not run into a wall he would have to be above average in processing speed at least so the idea has at least some merit
100th like
I like how Void was at the exact same level of competence between being normal and being controlled.
The Incredibles is my favorite film. I loved it as a kid and only grew to appreciate it more as I get older. It’s perfect. They characters all have arcs and the themes are immaculate. Not to mention the astounding direction and writing. Incredibles 2 dumbed everything down and didn’t have an ounce of depth or intelligence of the first one. I do want a third one to make up for 2.
So you want a cars 3 treatment to the incredibles?
True.
I was obsessed with them as a kid and watching it again as a 20 years old, I still find it to be my favourite film.
All the characters were great in the first film. Here, they're flanderised.
Even Jack. In the first film, he was literally a normal baby. He got scared, he shat his nappies, he lashed out when abducted.
Here, he behaves like an actual animal. Literally.
The first film had this weird realistic touch to it. This one was childish. Not childish in a Coraline, Adventure Time, Narnia kind of way.
Childish in a brain dead, Baby Shark Do-Do-Do-Do-Do way.
The first film had dynamic enemies, Omnidroids, Syndrome, Bomb Voyage, armed gunmen, enemies that can think and react to your actions. Incredibles 2 is just a bunch of out of control vehicles with only the Underminer being somewhat dynamic.
The one thing I will actually refute is that blunt force would hurt or even kill Elastigirl. If I'm going off of One Piece rules, rubber if flexible, bounces back, and absorbs impact, so technically she can withstand way worse pressure with no issue.
If she prepares for it by flexing herself around it. She's not always rubber. She can't permanently shape herslef into her ideal body (as seen when she worriedly looks at her hip size). She walks normally when her powers are not 'active', not bouncing off each step. She slips back when the door shuts on her waist. She needs to dodge bullets because they are too fast for her to dodge or ricochet. She dodged a moving pod to avoid the blunt force. She grunts in pain when she stretches with the goal of supporting a heavy weight. She doesn't just stretch when people grab her or when she turns a steering wheel, she stretches when someone grabs her while she is trying to get her main body away, like when Bob ropes her in for a kiss after she frees him. Evidence in the first movie shows she is only invulnerable to sharp forces because of her suit and is harmed by blunt forces she is unprepared for.
@@demo2823 Fair points, it does make me curious how her powers work exactly.
She absorbed a whole plane explosion in the first movie
@@demo2823 This is old now, but she would more than likely be rubber in that scenario.
@@silverscorpio24
That was also because of her indestructible super suit.
I cant comment enough how awesome the editing in your videos are. Just how well you can match a few seconds from the movies where a character is making a gesture and have it match what you're saying such as Violet rolling her eyes in annoyance as you're making a point that you consider annoying. 10/10
18:13 :D
Yes I caught that too. Very clever.
Its very engaging!
It’s a real treat to watch. I usually listen to essays like this while I’m doing something else, but when I don’t have anything else to do this editing makes the video a perfect level of activity to keep up with.
Something that's always kind of confused me about this film is why they needed to put in a twist villain in a _superhero_ movie. As RUclipsr Schaffrillas Productions said, the villain could just be some guy. Why do they feel the need to have a twist villain?
Anyways, good video!
I feel like movies are trying way too hard these days to subvert tropes and expectations instead of just telling a story. Most of the Disney movies of old are classics because the story is simple and easy to follow but movies these days have to overcomplicate things :/
Take Lightyear for example, Toy Story 2 handed them the whole story on a silver platter but they butchered it with trying to subvert our expectations.
If Lightyear just stuck with the fact that Zurg was a parody of Darth Vader and just did the whole movie like that, it would have been much better received
@@shadowm2k7 I dont enjoy finding out the twist on zurg in Lightyear either and time travel plays into it.
Gee it sure seems these earlier films with fewer resources age better
@@shadowm2k7 Agreed. Still really disappointed about Lightyear
Because the old movies were 'simplistic' and therefore sucked whereas the new movies are masterpieces because they sUbVeRt OuR eXpEcTaTiOnS. The irony, of course, is that those old movies still stand the test of time to this day while the newer movies are quickly forgotten immediately after they're released.
Some older movies still did twist villains well. Like in Wreck it Ralph. You actually might already be a little suspicious of him, but its who he really is that was a surprise and was done really well! I love that movie.
Then theres stuff like Frozen and Lightyear where it doesnt make sense and is stupid.
I’m surprised he missed pointing out that Mister Incredible bent solid metal chain around himself like it was a pool tube when minutes before he couldn’t budge some piping
Or better yet. Why didn’t Violet just use her force field blades to cut through the pipes?
@@Remix-pr4xd And he couldn’t take down a little mole man or punch through a metal door.
Here's a thought. How would the movie change if Evelyn's ideals actually matched up with that of her brother but to a harsher extreme. What if she wanted Supers back but by any means necessary. It'd make sense for the Screenslaver as a red herring villain since he was made threatening yet easy specifically to make Helen look good. If Evelyn was that desperate to bring Supers back then it'd make sense for her not to care about all the destruction and possible death she caused and having sent an innocent man to prison if it meant ultimately legalizing Supers for the greater good. Maybe have her parents get killed in a bank robbery hostage situation to make her motivations more believable. She could hate humanity for both getting rid of the one thing that could have saved her parents and prove to her that normal humans are not capable enough to keep the peace. It brings some interesting themes to Evelyn herself and when Helen figures out what Evelyn's been doing it'll bring an interesting moral dilemma to Helen and her family. Does she go along with Evelyn for "the greater good" and bring Supers back or call her out and potentially further hurt the image of Supers. This could also trickle down to the rest of the family. It'd test Bob to see exactly how far he has removed himself from his addiction to the glory days. It'd make sense for Voilet to renounce her superhero status if she can't morally bring herself to go along with this and just not want to deal with the legal and social drama, especially when it comes to her image in school and with Tony if she's ever discovered to be a Super and pinned as part of the "Superhero Menace" doing whatever they can to become legal again. And Dash... Yeah, I dunno. This could also hurt his image which I'm sure he cares about. I guess it could also bring his morals into question since one goal he has is to prove himself and use his powers, either as a superhero or not, and now he has to question whether or not it's even worth it to pursue that goal anymore. The sort of anger and depression that'd come from him once again being deprived of the option to use his powers openly would be an interesting idea to explore.
I dunno. It definitely wouldn't fix the movie as a whole but I feel it'd make it a lot more interesting to watch.
That sounds really interesting actually
That's what I said! That's what I hoped, but *NO.* This isn't the plot and I hate it.
I WISH this was the plot. It would've been so cool.
That would also curb a lot of the criticisms people had towards the original for being Randian. Centering your entire life around some sort of “ideal humans,” is fucked up, and people should be able to value themselves for what they’re capable of rather than fetishizing that which they aren’t. The woman’s an excellent tech geek and a great public speaker. She had plenty of potential to be a hero in her own unique way.
Honestly, idk. The premise just sounds like the good old argument of "a loud minority of fans/supporters are bad, so the thing itself is bad too surely".
They never signed off on this, so there is no moral dilemma. there is a reasonable chance their image can recover, considering they would still be the ones to bring the villain behind bars. Plus, even if the public is genuinely dumb, there will always be diffrent viewpoints. Some would logically argue that it may have actually been an attempt to slander Supers by unfairly associating their existance and legality to destruction.
A possible defence for Edna could be that she is using some of her prior technology to create Jack Jack’s outfit and remote, I could have seen her deal with a wide variety of heroes and powers so she might have had prior clients with similar powers and/or counters, it would explain how she was able to create the remote to track him through alternative dimensions.
As for a thing that Evelyn could have done was just MIND CONTROL YOUR BROTHER! Just brainwash him to share your opinions on heroes and he would leave them alone for them to continue ruining their own reputation. You already have loose morals and don't care what he thinks, just brainwash him & do nothing related to heroes and you win.
Especially since she did have the suit from the first movie, which was fire proof and stuff, if she was working off of that and maybe give her a small, "I've been tweaking with it for a while now" it'd make so much more sense
Evelyn clearly cared about him, so maybe she simply didn't want to brainwash him
@@bigbadgammagnome She definitely didn't care about Elastigirl, part of her motivation is that she hates superheroes, Helen was just a pawn but Winston was her brother.
She might think he's an idiot but she still brought him onto the helicopter while she tried to escape, so she probably didn't feel comfortable mind controlling him unless it was necessary. Plus it'd also make him suspicious
I want to play Devil's Advocate on the "Combustion, what does that mean!?" line. Its entirely plausible its Bob being confused why his son is about to spontaneously catch fire as its something he never saw before and didn't know Jak Jak can do.
Exactly. Could mean he's about to start spewing fire, since that's combustion
That isn't what the scene really implies though through the wording. "What do you mean by combustion?" sounds more like he knows what the word means but not the form its about to take. Specifically asking "What does combustion mean?" shows you don't know that word. Grammar is very important in writing. "Is he going to shoot fire or catch on fire?, "Don't tell me he can ignite himself too?" etc etc provide many ways to give the message without making Bob sound questionable.
@@aerostrafe1075 or "Combustion?!? You mean, Jak Jak's going to explode". Then have Mr. Incredible go to break the glass to save Jak Jak, interrupted only by Edna saying "It will be fine Robert, trust me. Just enjoy the fireworks" or something along those lines.
@@justinbotkin Thats another good one. There were ways to do that scene to make him look a lot better than what they did.
Yeah, but that means that Edna's response to his confusion is both condescending AND patronizing
Also, Evelyn just creates a massive freezer tank JUST so she can monologue to Helen?!
I always wondered what else she could've possibly used that tank for
Beef?
Here's how *I* would rewrite Incredibles 2 (at least as far as the main characters and their arcs go).
But first, some context. Make it take place 14 years after the first movie. That way it's easier as a writer to write the story without worrying so much about consistency with the Incredibles. And it opens up more exploration into how society has adjusted to superheroes coming back after having them been banned. And it sets up opportunities on montages of the Incredibles working together as a family crime-fighting unit. Now, the characters.
First, Helen and Bob. After 14 more years of crime fighting, Helen and Bob are inevitably getting older. Bob is getting weaker and Helen can't stretch as much as she used to, and they are concerned about how to go about retiring and breaking it to Violet, Dash and Jack-Jack.
Violet. Since the first movie, she has had a successful relationship with Tony and she is now happily married to a man who accepts her as a superhero. She enjoys being a superhero and setting an example and an inspiration for introverted people like her. However, soon she discovers that she's pregnant, and now she has to decide what she has to do now that she is starting her own family and superheroing is dangerous work.
Now Dash. Being a famous superhero despite his young age, Dash is loving his life. But soon a wrench is thrown his way when he meets a girl. She's pretty, she's smart, and she's a super too. But he discovers that she works for a nasty villain. Now Dash's world isn't so black and white; he has to decide how far he will go about giving his opponents chances to turn good.
And finally, Jack-Jack. Having not had to grow up sheltering his abilities, Jack-Jack doesn't have the appreciation of his powers that the rest of his family has. And since he has so many (though not NEAR as many as he does in the movie) he's relied on a lot for solving problems both from his family and everyone else he knows. But being fourteen, Bob and Helen don't think he's old enough to actually participate in the heavy crimefighting, causing Jack-Jack frustration and feeling of entrapment. As the movie progresses he could be tempted by a villain promising freedom or runs away from home. Maybe his true desire doesn't lie in superheroing at all and wants to do something more mundane that the rest of the family doesn't understand.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Incredibles 2 was a massive disappointment to me because I loved the first movie and the thing that still bothers me about the sequel is how every member of the titular team regressed and became stupider and meaner.
But hey.... your rewrite is not bad..., although I wonder what the meaning of the message or teaching that the movie would give us would be? How would you write the final fight and the definitive ending according to you?
I found your rewrite interesting.
@@alem4303 Well, the final act would sort of play out like this movie's does: Bob and Helen are captured by the villain and his goons and it's up to the kids to free them.
The Villain manages to trick Jack-Jack into getting parents captured, which he feels terrible about and comes to realize that he shouldn't take his family or what they fight for for granted.
Violet's relationship has been tense with Tony throughout the movie, because she is determined to still be a hero but he's concerned that she will either get seriously hurt or become too obsessed with hero work that she neglects their child. Maybe it's revealed that Tony himself had emotionally neglectful parents, which triggers Violet's memories of her dad early on in Incredibles 1. But by the end they come to a compromise, and Tony agrees to be a stay-at-home dad as long as Violet promises to be in their baby's life.
Dash's arc finishes with him giving his new friend an ultimatum: take responsibility and become a good person, or he takes her in as a villain. No more second chances or excuses. She agrees to turn good, because she realizes that she likes Dash and that he isn't interested in using her like her villainous boss. She joins the hero team and helps Violet, Dash, and Jack-Jack free their parents and stop the villain's evil plan.
After the final battle, Bob and Helen come clean about retiring, but they promise they will still provide proximal support and will always be there as parents for their kids. Violet takes a few months for maternity leave, Dash and the new girl (Hot Streak, a pyromancer) work out her rehab and eventually become a crime-fighting couple. And Jack-Jack apologizes for everything and says rather than being a superhero, he wants to be a gardener/landscaper. His family all accept his choice and apologize for pressuring him into hero work.
I know this is pretty vague. And I know this tier of writing is above Disney Pixar at this point, but that's the sort of story I would want to write if I was tasked with writing The Incredibles II.
@@silverscorpio24 Don't worry, I enjoyed your rewrite (I even made fictional scenarios). XD
Usually I can't watch hour long videos in one sitting, but yours are really easy to watch. They're really entertaining. Appreciate you going in-depth
“I can’t lose you again! i can’t- not again, i’m not… strong enough” even just watching that scene during this youtube video i can say that i felt chills through my body. a truly amazing moment from the first film that still hits me over a decade later. saddening that incredibles 2 never managed to even get close to that level of impactful character development
I suspect Evelyn's character might have been butchered in rewrites. It seemed like the movie was progressing towards revealing she was playing the villain to help her brother. The theme of people being too dependent on supers doesn't really show up at all until the end, but an "ends justify the means" theme is present throughout, as well as a sort of duality between Elastigirl and Evelyn both breaking the law to achieve the same thing in completely different ways, both of which went no where in the end.
Another thing the Lego Game did better than the movie is the fact that the Screenslaver fight doesn't give you seizures, in the Lego Game the background is just a slow moving white spiral in a black background which is way better than what the movie was trying to do.
We don’t need to rewrite Incredibles 2. Lego did that for us.
@@NintendoMeister2260 It's still not great, but it's way better.
I exhaled from my nose harder than I should have when I heard Monty’s “Hey, little guy.” Iconic.
And last but not least, we’ve got our villains: The Underminer and The Screenslaver. In my comments on the previous parts, I made mention that both villains should have been co-antagonists, with The Screenslaver as the primary antagonist and The Underminer as the secondary one. I think that separately, it would be difficult for one to carry the whole movie alone (especially The Screenslaver/Evil Endeavor we ended up getting :|). But together, they would make up for what the other lacks in capabilities and talents, provide an interesting and entertaining character dynamic, and be a credible threat to the extremely powerful Incredibles, especially if they utilize divide and conquer strategies. Let’s look at each villain separately, then both of them together to see how this would and maybe _should_ have worked.
First, The Underminer, our Moleman villain, who is utterly wasted and never even mentioned after the first scene, which is baffling to say the least since fighting him and understanding his character and his place in this world was one of the main reasons why most of us wanted to watch an Incredibles sequel. I’d like to provide the full quote from his introductory scene in Incredibles 1 & the added stuff from the game Rise of the Underminer:
_Behold, The Underminer! I am always beneath you, but nothing is beneath me! I hereby declare war, on peace and happiness! Soon all will tremble before me! Hahahaha! _
*Game Added Part*_Soon this world will be like The Underworld, and I will rule the above from beneath the entire planet! You will all be crushed within my grip! Ahahaha! Thus begun, the rise of The Underminer! _
Now, this tells us that his goals and motivations are much more interesting and engaging than robbing banks. He clearly wants to rule the surface world as an expansion of his current domain, The Underworld. This motivation is identical to Moleman’s from the Fantastic Four’s rogue gallery, right down to being ruler of an underground civilization. And it seems like he’s got an inferiority complex about the surface world, evident by the line “I am always beneath you, but nothing is beneath me!” and “I hereby declare war, on peace and happiness!” These lines imply that his underground kingdom isn’t sunshine and rainbows, perhaps resources are scarce and he has to expand his territory because of that. Maybe The Underworld is being pillaged or encroached upon by greedy companies and ambitious corporations, which “forced” Underminer’s hand to retaliate bigger and badder than the corporations that are disrespecting his rule. I would personally go with this one as it’s a more nuanced and interesting reason for attempting world domination than simple delusions of grandeur.
His weaponry and equipment shown are actually perfect, I love his grungy, clunky, heavy metal approach to machinery and gadgets as opposed to Syndrome’s clean, sleek, modern sci-fi aesthetic. It makes a clear distinction between both villains personalities and their motivations. Syndrome was a young, classy futurist with subtle, complex and carefully laid out plans with specific targets in mind in order to satisfy a personal grudge. The Underminer is an old, off-putting aspiring dictator with overt, simplistic and a downright aggressive plan to wage war on an entire world in order to satisfy an inferiority complex and/or to obtain retribution against the world that threatens his way of life. And it’s important to note that both of them are geniuses, innovative and creative individuals that use their brilliance for selfish, harmful reasons, and wind up succeeding for the most part.
Syndrome eliminates 99% of the Super community, captures and tortures Mr. Incredible in ways that no one has ever been able to before, humiliates him in one-on-one combat, nearly destroys his city, kidnaps his baby right in front of his eyes, and destroyed his house nearly killing his entire family in one go. That’s quite a lot in the win column for old Syndie. The Underminer breaches to the surface, causes massive damage including taking out the buildings he targeted specifically, defeats Mr. Incredible in hand to hand combat (which shouldn’t have happened, but hear me out), robs the bank, gets away with the money, and causes the Incredibles to get arrested and have to go back into hiding. That’s a lot of in his win column as well, with the bonus of not dying or getting arrested in the process, something even Syndrome can’t boast at the end of the day. What I’m trying to impress upon you is this, The Underminer is like a reverse-Syndrome, he has everything already set to make him as fascinating, engaging, and competent as Syndrome was while being a completely different beast altogether.
All I would add to his arsenal would be his army of robot minions from the Rise of the Underminer game, seeing as that would give each protagonist ample enemies to fight, as well as bolster Underminer’s intelligence. Thinking back on his fight with Mr. Incredible, that fight needed some kind of nerf for Mr. Incredible in order to work, otherwise Bob flicks the guy and the fight ends in 3 seconds. But instead of dumbing down Bob and nerfing his super strength, a continuous influx of robot minions would work infinitely better. Because then it wouldn’t be about how strong Bob is and how weak the Underminer is, it would be a distraction game, The Underminer knows he isn’t a match for Mr. Incredible, but he doesn’t have to be. All he needs is to spread him thin, keep him surrounded and have him take into account all the different abilities of his robots working together to incapacitate him so The Underminer can move in for the kill, so to speak.
Again, this is quite similar to how Moleman fights the overpowered Fantastic Four, he sends wave after wave of his mole people and underground monsters at them, and at innocent people, in order to spread them thin enough for him to beat them. It’s the best strategy available to characters like this facing opponents with insanely powerful abilities. Since this is the direction I would have his character go in, I would also like to add deadlier weapons to his arsenal. How about a volcanic ash type gas weapon, something that could knock out even the strongest of opponents because it attacks the lungs, not the muscles or bones? How about a drill fist instead of just a jackhammer one, something meant to shred through dense muscles and bones that Mr. Incredible would need to watch out for? How about a flamethrower type weapon, a lava-thrower, leaning into the underground aesthetic even more? What about a spiked wrecking ball weapon, something that can be very difficult for Mr. Incredible to account for in the midst of battle? And finally, as I mentioned in my comment on Part 2, an ultrasonic weapon that even Violet wouldn’t be able to defend against, a last resort to deal with Supers of all types that he cooked up specifically after watching the final battle with the Omnidroid. All of these weapons would open up intelligent, engaging, and satisfying fights against this villain, as well as challenge the heroes in new and interesting ways to counter these tactics together. Because that’s what this movie should be about, the Incredibles coming together to make something greater than the sum of its parts.
Speaking of coming together, how about we tackle The Screenslaver in a reply?
Screenslaver, a villain that was unsurprisingly bungled as soon as we encounter them in person and didn’t even keep the cool mask and design that excited viewers when the villain reveal trailer first dropped. As for the Marvel character that Screenslaver is based on, the Disney Wiki doesn’t say, but me being a Fantastic Four fan, I see a clear connection to an underrated villain in their rogues gallery, The Mad Thinker. With his green and black aesthetic, the onesie, the evil genius with subverting schemes and plots, not to mention the hypnotizing goggles gimmick is one for one Mad Thinker’s Hypnotic Goggles he used against The Thing and Daredevil, as well as his more iconic Hypno Lens. And because this character is connected to The Mad Thinker, a villain known for his insanely methodical and brilliant plans and motivations, I think you can see why this villain was so very disappointing for a Fantastic Four fan like me.
It didn’t have to be that way though, as stated in Part 2 and touched upon in the thematic messaging conclusion of this part, the villain monologue of The Screenslaver was intricately thought out and honestly fascinating as an antagonist’s motivation. The complete quote is as follows:
_Screenslaver interrupts this program for an important announcement… Don’t bother watching the rest. Elastigirl doesn’t save the day, she only postpones her defeat. And while she postpones her defeat, you eat chips and watch her confront problems that you are too lazy to deal with. Superheroes are part of your brainless desire to replace true experience with simulation; You don’t talk, you watch talk shows. You don’t play games, you watch game shows. Travel, relationships, risk; every meaningful experience must be packaged and delivered to you to watch at a distance. So that you can remain forever sheltered, ever passive. Ever ravenous consumers who can’t bring themselves to rise from their couches, break a sweat and participate in life. You want superheroes to protect you, and make yourselves ever more powerless in the process, while you tell yourself you’re being looked after. That your interests are being served and your rights are being upheld, so that the system can keep stealing from you, smiling at you all the while. Go ahead. Send your Supers to stop me, grab your snacks, watch your screens and see what happens. You are no longer in control, I am… _
Now that is pretty damn good, especially when coupled with the action of the scene itself, again, as explained in Part 2. The issue is it holds no weight because the rest of the story isn’t concerned with tackling this idea, creating yet another waste of a fantastic premise/idea/character. This should have been The Screenslaver’s real motivation, this should have been the crux of the main thematic messaging. It can even tie into my suggestions for Tony Ridenger’s character in my comment from Part 2, about foregoing consumerism and going out to live life and experience true risk and stimulation. So I absolutely want to keep this and skip Evil Endeavor’s motivations entirely, as well as Winston Deavor and the entire idea of Supers being illegal for… reasons.
I’m not saying Screenslaver can’t have an identity similar to Evil Endeavor, her personality and design should definitely be kept. I’d hate to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I really like _aspects_ of Evelyn, but there’s too much weighing her down which causes the entire story to plummet down. So if I were rewriting Screenslaver, I would retain the idea of a patsy to hide the twist reveal as The Screenslaver’s identity. I would even try to make the patsy a much better red herring, such as someone who fully buys into the Screenslaver’s ideals and thus was recruited by the real Screenslaver to further their shared goals. This would really beef up Screenslaver’s manipulation skills as well as make the mystery of The Screenslaver just a bit more engaging and tricky to uncover. This would also function as a really nice reference to The Mad Thinker’s infamous tactic to use highly advanced androids to impersonate him that he can use remotely. So yeah, I like the patsy idea, it just needs a little tweaking to work better.
As for personality, as I said, Evelyn’s got an engaging personality that would fit Screenslaver quite well. I don’t mean how she behaves after the reveal, mind you, I’m talking about pre-reveal Evelyn, she’s interesting. Laid-back and aloof on the surface, sarcastic and dry humor, masking a bitter, resentful outsider. She retains a kernel from the Screenslaver’s rant, “You want superheroes to protect you, and make yourselves ever more powerless in the process”, which ties into a terrible backstory. But if The Screenslaver was rewritten, this could easily just be part of her beef against society and even link it to her desire to team up with The Underminer to defeat the Supers and plunge the world into a new age. An age without rampant consumerism, an age without corporations that bleed people dry, an age without Supers to create a lazy, ineffectual populous. An age without screens (more on this idea in a sec).
Her weaponry and equipment is also pretty interesting and I believe it fits her well, the strobe lights attached to the mask would be very useful against more powerful opponents and as a hidden weapon no one would expect. There’s a DC villain called Prometheus that uses this type of attack/tactic to great effect, the strobe lights flash in a predetermined pattern to cause hypnosis, which is on theme with old Screeny, but also to disorient other capable opponents immune to hypnotism, like Batman. The cattle prod type weapon is perfect because Screenslaver would consider the ever ravenous consumers to be sheep or cattle. A cattle prod would symbolize not just technological proficiency and ruthless but intelligent weaponry to use against more powerful opponents, but an inherent superiority and separation from a society of mindless cattle. So that’s great, honestly wish we could have seen that used more in the actual movie, but whatever, par for the course, right?
The only thing I would add to The Screenslaver’s arsenal would be a gun of some sort, she needs a projectile weapon and I think a taser gun would be nice. A real gun would be okay, but to keep with the aesthetic of electronics, screens, and all that, a taser gun would be great. But the main tactic that she should be using is hypnotized slaves to fight against the heroes, which is the easiest and most effective way to combat superheroes, weaponize innocent lives and use their heroic nature against them. If the Screenslaver used portable screens or the strobe lights like I mentioned earlier, she could hypnotize anyone around her and order them to kill the Incredibles or even try to kill themselves to force the Incredibles to stop pursuing her and save the innocent people. Again, this could tie very neatly into my rewrite idea for Dash that’s posted on Part 1, where he has to work on his collateral damage and be more careful to save lives as opposed to chasing bad guys for the thrill of using his powers unrestrained.
And as for how Screenslaver and Underminer would work as a team, again, I’ll put that in a reply (curse RUclips’s character limits for comments XD)
Screenslaver, as the primary antagonist, would need to be intimidating enough to stand on equal footing with the likes of The Underminer, because if they’re going to work together, Underminer has to respect Screenslaver, no? I would have the Screenslaver offer to help the Underminer after he narrowly escapes the Incredibles in the opening scene, show him that through her planning and innovative technology and his army of robots and deadly brand of mining technology, they can divide the Supers and conquer them. The Underminer would then question why a surface dweller would want to help him overthrow the surface world, which would give Screenslaver the opportunity to explain how lackadaisical and sickening society has become thanks to corporations that keep everyone enslaved to screens. The same corporations that threaten to destroy Underminer’s domain, and the Supers are defending those corporations and the status quo they peddle. So, for the greater good, the Screenslaver desires a mass reset for the world, a purge to wipe the slate clean and restore stimulation and risk back to the people. To bring everything back to a pure existence, one without corporations, one without Supers, one without screens (told ya we’d come back to this later).
So then the story would be about both of them spreading the Supers and government thin and getting rid of them first. Then the world will be ripe for a manual reset, one under the Underminer’s rule, but the Screenslaver’s watchful eye. It won’t be anarchy, it’ll be a shifting of principals and priorities, one for the better because people’s agency and critical thinking will be forced to activate again. Underminer will have his new kingdom to rule and Screenslaver will have a society she can be proud of again, it’s a win-win. But of course, one of them will betray the other, I’m thinking Screenslaver would betray Underminer. She’d slap hypno goggles on him or flash a hypnotic pattern on his screen in the final act, because she isn’t stupid enough to believe the Underminer would hold up his end of the deal. Plus, she’d be replacing several sneaky corporations to one great dictating oppressor, the problem of complacency and not living life for real wouldn’t be solved. Thus, we’d have a juxtaposition between the villains’ idea of coming together and the heroes’ idea of coming together. One keeps up the pretense for ultimately selfish desires, while the other genuinely desires to be on one accord to serve something greater than themselves. Perfect little parallel there.
And finally, I’d like to highlight just how engaging these two would be as a character dynamic. You’ve got a basement dwelling, loud and dramatic grouch partnered with a laid-back, sarcastic, know it all who’s got everyone’s good interests at heart in the worst way possible. That’s an interesting premise already, but link that with both of them integrating their plans together and arguing about who’s tech is better for what job and you’ve got sitcom levels of hilarity and entertainment. I truly think it’d be a joy to watch both of these characters fight to chew the scenery of their shared scenes and then to have them bond over their disdain of the world as a common ground. I also would add some moments of them impressing each other in what they do, preferably when battling the Incredibles, their penchant for distractions and disorientation mixed with smart weaponry to use against super powered individuals could be appreciated. The Underminer could remark on how great hypnotizing civilians worked to give him an opportunity to use his drill against them. Screenslaver can appreciate The Underminer’s ultrasonic weapon as something she never thought of, as she focuses mainly on sight. They can recognize the merits of each other and consciously make up what they each lack together and become a real great team.
Only for that team to crumble at the most crucial moment because as the saying goes “To be united by hatred is a fragile alliance at best”. Plus it’d add an extra layer of depth to The Underminer’s character, seeing as in the end, he would admit that he was looking forward to ruling the surface with Screenslaver. She was a pain in the neck sometimes, but he considered her a friend.
The idea of them making up for what the other lacks is even evident in their visual designs. The Screenslaver’s mask emphasizes the eyes while completely blocking the nose and mouth, while Underminer’s face focuses on his large mouth with mole teeth and his bulbous nose, while his eyes are totally hidden underneath his hardhat. Screenslaver has a thin, lanky build which means he’ll be a faster, more flexible person, but lack power and durability. While Underminer has a stout, short build which means he’ll be all about power and defense, but speed and flexibility are his weak points. Technology wise, Underminer focuses on clunky, heavy metal machinery, with simple and straightforward functions. There is no complexity in his technology, it’s simplicity at its best. Screenslaver on the other hand has very complex and modern tech, with a greater degree of function and subtlety. There is no bold, simple uses of her tech, it’s all about calculation and precision and manipulation.
Both characters are clear opposites that can so beautifully fit together to create a real force to be reckoned with as well as a brand new direction to take the story in and be a joy to watch as a character dynamic. Now I _would_ go through the entire plot of a movie with these two as the villains and with Screenslaver’s new backstory, motivations, evil scheme, plus tie all of that to my previous comments detailing Dash’s arc (Part 1 comment), Violet’s arc and Tony Ridenger’s development into an actual character (Part 2 comment), but… just look at how long these comments already are. So I think I’ll leave it there for now and say what a waste this film was. So many fantastic directions this sequel could have went in and they chose possibly the worst direction. Straight into the ground.
But hey, at least this video series was a well made, cathartic masterpiece. Thanks GamingMagic13, I wouldn’t have been able to critically breakdown this movie better myself C:
Who cares about the Underminer lol, it was clear he was never meant to be the next major antagonist. I don't like the Incredibles 2 but the Underminer is not the reason people wanted a sequel lol, that's just silly and honestly would have made the movie even worse. He's not interesting.
In the first movie, he was just meant to represent the fact that there are more villains out there and that the family will fight them together, and his backstory was clearly poking fun at supervillain monologues about their motivations and backstories. I was honestly surprised they even included him in the sequel at all.
Holy moly that's a really cool interesting idea. Opposite attract plus villain teamup and last minute betrayal? You're pulling foil after foil that I didn't know even possible. Imagine heroes are actually legal back to the end of part 1, which will introduces new gen heroes, which will also create phony trend chasers. Imagine the finale when the young and pretentious heroes have to face the real meaning of being a hero, is to protect innocent ppl and stop the evil, while being helpless before the ppl they're supposed to protect now being mind controlled and the overwhelming evil they're supposed to defeat - who also the results of their own actions. The civilians are no longer just their mean to make money and popularity and the villains are no longer weak helpless normal ppl that have to do dirty stuff because their circumstances that can be easily defeated and used as good cover for newspaper. Imagine at the darkest hours, they see the real heroes, working together as family, risking their lives together to do the right thing, which helps them muster up their courage and actually put their power to good use.
Plus the new gen heroes can be such both use for the family and the villain's narratives. They can help ppl realize that not all ppl with power have heroism and question if making heroes legal again is such a good idea? They go against both Bob and Helen' ideologies while both reflect what they could've been. Young guy beat up whatever he can just for show and care more about being recognized than actual helping ppl. Young female hero tries to take all the work to herself and refuse to cooperate cos she thinks she's better than all the male heroes which cause unnecessary damage. Imagine them being team up with Violet and Dash. Violet being overshadowed and has her credit taken while Dash quickly realize using your power thoughtlesly causes harm and has to go after doing damage control. I think that can help their growths a lot too. The kids will have to learn to understand old values while also add their own touch of new value to what defines "heroism".
Seeing characters like that makes both villains' motive understandable and even makes viewers root for them. We'll have triple foils in one movie.
@@highdefinition450 Speak for yourself.
I forgot how OP Violet + Dash Running Barrier combo was.
Ideas for next "How *insert movie title* destroyed everything":
Ralph breaks the internet, Ice Age 5, Hotel Transylvania 4, Shrek the Third , Cars 2, Despicable Me 3 and Rio 2 (if you despise them, of course)
For Ralph breaks the Internet we are going to be here for 9+ hours and GamingMagic13 might actually get rabies.
I have never watched a sequel THAT committed to openly breaking almost every fundamental rule of world and character building established by the first one. Like, it happened to such a ridiculous degree it *had* to be done on purpose right?
@@CatalinaLinal7710 That movie just sucks. Wreck it Ralph is one of my most favorite movies of all time and its sequel didnt even try to be canon from the start, and the characters acted drastically different. At least theres no 2 in the title
I mean, that would require one to come up with a way "Cars 2 destroyed everything". Because it really didn't. Many people including this guy trash it for the logicfactor, but it neither really breaks the world itself, nor the characters.
@@lpfan4491 In his _Toy Story 4_ review, he actually mentions that he thinks that _Cars 2_ for all its faults at least kept its characters intact and so actually prefers it over _Toy Story 4_
I’d say hotel Transylvania 3 too
the uncrush dialogue was one of those jokes where I laughed the first time, but slowly realize just how absolutely stupid it really is over the years 💀
Now I’m just laughing because of how stupid it is. 😂
It doesn't help that Dash doesn't stop when he realised he got duped when running around in circles with the portals Void made.
You can have a fun scene with Dash trying to dodge portals. He could have to get close to Void without her portals stopping him. A couple attempts could lead him farther from her until he has a clever idea and is able to get close and incapacitate her for a while.
Good point.
It would be cool to see a "How The Incredibles created everything" but without comparing it at any moment with the sequel as to forget this last one exists
Climax of the Incredibles: stop a robot from destroying the city and killing thousands
Climax of the Incredibles 2: Contain the super baby, isn’t that cute and hilarious?!
Let’s be honest though, getting good at math is far more difficult than running on water and dodging bullets. Definitely a far greater challenge Dash had to face than in the first movie.
Dude, you make great content. Between this, your Toy Story 4 video, and your Top 10 Worst Video Games list, you make incredibly funny, well-constructed videos that are so enjoyable to get immersed in. Keep up the fantastic work, my guy!
?
@@scottchaison1001 Just complimenting this guy's content.
Jeremy from the Brad Taste in Music comment section?? Based.
@@jeremyusreevu237 Dude for some reason hated the video and needs to insult or make fun of people for liking it. He commented on a lot of other comments here with snarky remarks
When you think about it, Josh Cooley is basically responsible for the downfall of Pixar.
You mentioned at the end that Incredibles 2 was the beginning of Pixar's downward spiral, however as you mentioned in the Toy Story 4 series, the main reason why Incredibles 2 ended up as bad as it did was because Toy Story 4's delay caused Incredibles 2 to lose an entire year of production time, and Toy Story 4's delay only happened because Josh Cooley threw out 75% of the film's original script.
So yeah, Pixar's ongoing downward spiral can be traced back to Josh Cooley and Toy Story 4.
Ah, the finale. Been loving this series so far. Great job, dude!
coming from someone who loved the first movie and watched it several times a year hoping that somehow a sequel would be constructed, this dysfunctional mess we got is borderline betrayal
I kinda feel like the incredibles 2 should of been a tv series. It might not fix the many flaws with the characters but it would fix how the movie moves so quickly.
I agree so hard :D
I think no. Shows require a conflict each episode and they would have kept playing the family againsg itself as the B plot.
@@demo2823 The point is they would have put in more conflicts and plots had it been a show series, while still keeping the main elements of the main plot.
This feels like an episode from one of the in-universe TV shows stretched out to movie length.
@@demo2823 that could be where the Underminer kicks in 0.0. He'd have a more occurring role instead of just being relegated to beginning fodder in the movie.
When it comes to portals, I like the limits the game Portal sets, where there has to be a surface for the portal to be on and you have to visually see where the portal can go, so you don't just summon portals willy-nilly.
That’s what kinda breaks the use of portals not only in Incredibles 2 but also in the MCU
@@JonathanGaeta I give the MCU a slight pass because its explained that you need a sling ring at the very least to summon one, plus there requires a lot of concentration. It's still a convenient plot device but it's not as annoying as Void
But yeah I agree, its partly why portals and soft-magic systems dont usually do it for me
Well, in the Portal games, it's different to the MCU and Incredibles 2. Believe it or not, as much as I despise PORTAL 2 (my most hated game of all-time), it surprised me that it managed to understand that the portals are only on white surfaces. However, due to the fact that PORTAL 2 completely convolutes and destroys the worldbuilding and that the portal surfaces in the escape and cavern section are ridiculously and unbelievably contrived, even the portaling baffles me, due to how lucky that Chell was able to escape the caves at all. However, this pales to what PORTAL 2 does to all the characters, even going as far as to assassinate all the main ones, and have every other character have no purpose, come out of nowhere, or just simply contradict the first game's existence.
To be completely honest, Screenslaver looked like an awesome villain.
The first bits of him during the train chase, his messege to TV while Elastigirl tracked him down and the fight they had in that house (yes, this one too, it had a lot stupid flaws but it could be polished. I wrote comment in previous video about it, I liked the scene, its still cruel that they didn't warn people about the flashing lights tho), it all looked fantastical.
BUT when Screenslaver got punched and they revealed that its just a brainwashed pizza guy I strated loosing interest. And when they revealed that Evelynn was behind all of this... I lost it, I was so dissapointed, all the great scenes for Screenslaver fell apart for Evelynns nonsense.
I hope this doesn't become a trend in new movies, setting a great villain and then throwing him away is WORSE than having a bad villain from the start, at least you didn't feel that wasted oportunity after the movie.
Back then they did animations for good stories. Now they do stories for good animations.
Why would Violet or dash even think or want the car turning into a boat, when Dash knows he can run on water. And Violet can do her forcefield hamster ball that Dash could probably push or propel in the water.
i didn't even think about that they could have really shined
But then how do they get on the boat?
That’s where a little thing called “writing” happens. You see in the movie, they take the car out there and don’t even know how to get on the ship, and by PURE coincidence, dumb luck, and horrible writing, they are able to get on the boat because of the eject, even though in the first movie, Buddy was only launched like 8 feet in the air, the ejector springs them up in multiple stories into the boat. It makes no sense.
I’m pretty sure the Lego game established the force field ball can still function underwater.
2:30 I think he knew what it meant (his scared reaction alone implies that), but was wondering wtf it had to do with his kid. Probably didn't think his *child* was going to be the one purposefully blowing up in flames
That's how I took it as well
But then Edna's response makes her look like a jerk
Man, how are you editing all of this? It feels like every sentence you said had individual, carefully picked clip, that perfectly fits what you want to say. I try to imagine how you did this, and it feels like humongous amount of work!
Trust me, it was. It takes a tremendous amount of time to edit my videos the way that I do, but it’s all in service of making the end product better. Glad to see it was worth it :)
@@GamingMagic13 I love how not only do you always pick clips that match with what you’re saying, but depending on what media you’re analyzing, you mostly use clips from that franchise. For example, you used a lot of Incredibles clips in this series, and in your Cars On The Road video, you used a lot of clips from the Cars movies. Clever.
Watched part 1 and 2 and then rewatched The Incredibles. Such a good movie. My only real complaint would be that there was no action scene which heavily leveraged Violet and gave her the time to shine. Bob has the whole opening, the v9 Omnidroid fight, and then sneaking back into the base. Elastigirl gets the plane scene and the base infiltration. Dash gets the blade-copter chase. Violet fights a single guard, and when I was rewatching it I was honestly more impressed by the guard than her. Nameless Guard showed some real intelligence counteracting her powers and if he has just had one other guy as backup to shoot Dash off of him then he might have won.
I think she had a moment but it gets combined with dash in peoples minds because of how it happened
Originally when they did that shield run it was just her reaction to save dash with no thought and they were able to turn it into a defense after a moment of confusion kinda like dash with the water run
@@HinataUchiha_22Not to mention the pay off of creating a shield damn near instantly to save her family from Syndromes Jet crashing down on them.
Calling back to her fear/inability to do so when on the plane with Helen and Dash.
Violet's feats aren't as bombastic as Bobs, Dash's or even Helen's. But they are there and they are paramount in saving her families lives.
@@ShadowKamehameha32
And she was also the one to free her family from those restraints.
still gotta love the NPC line from that one guard "You can't hide from me.." as he throws dirt to reveal Violet's location
And here we are, the final part of The Incredibles 2 saga
I always felt like I was the Weird One for not liking Incredibles 2 (not the worst animated movie I've ever seen--that honor goes to Dreamworks' Trollhunters: Rise of the Titans, but Incredibles 2 is definitely way up there on the list), so it is such a huge relief to hear someone else point out everything that felt wrong about this movie to me. Love love LOVED this little series, and I'm so impressed with the amount of work you put into each video. That being said, I hope you're letting yourself get tons of rest after such a huge effort.
Is it really that bad? I was thinking about getting into Trollhunters.
@@drakegrandx5914 The first series is great, the others are up to your personal taste, but the movie is questionable at best. Do with that what you will.
@@chelle249 Why is the movie so bad? If it's possible to tell me without spoiling things, that is.
@@drakegrandx5914 The pacing affected the relationships between characters, the dialogue was stunted most of the time, and they tossed in insufferable "self-awareness" that worked against any sense of immersion. Character's development regressed at times (built over the course of the series'). A lot of plot beats and ideas had amazing potential, but they fumbled it like in the second Incredibles movie. There's a lot more to complain about, but the specifics are plot relevant. It's relatively serviceable if you "turn off" your brain, and it still works for some people. The ending though is the equivalent of a atomic bomb going off, as it contradicts and erases the themes, messages, relationships and sacrifices of the franchise as a whole, as well as being mindbogglingly stupid. There's no way to ignore that or wave it away.
I hope that helps :)
@@chelle249 Many thanks for your time. I'll mentally prepare myself for a great disappointment then when I will watch the series. I suppose the movie is the last episode of the franchise?
I feel like when the movie was released Brad Bird and the other people who worked on it realized how broken it is and decided to fix some of the things in the incredibles lego game like the underminer fight the family worked together to save people and remembered how their superpowers work and used them in the most logical way.
Bird is a sellout who made a bad film because he wanted money. he didn't have to make it
@@IronheartvsMiles
No. It’s because audiences wanted him to make a sequel and decided to give them what they wanted.
Void's name extends to more than just her powers. It's also all she has on the head.
(Edit: Grammar)
Here we are . Time to see the grandfinally!
*And here we are!*
The whole segment in the new supers attacking the par house was a non stop laugh riot. Perfect commentary lmao
When Mister Incredible said “It’s Incredibl’in time” it was surely one of the moment of movies of all times!
Please, don't overuse this meme. It was funny but... now you guys are just killing it...
I hate morbius jokes.
@@drakegrandx5914 i fully agree, and tho i'm the kinda person to grin like an idiot at a stupid pun, this kind of repetition joke is just something i breeze right past without a glance lol
a joke is funny until you hear it said for the 150th time--
Incredibles 2 is the movie of all time
Honestly, I really love these reviews of films you do. You made me realize that I was part of the flock of sheep... I CRIED at the part in TS4 where Gabby was redeemed. That's how bad it was. In that poll you put out, I was hoping to see you praise films like TS3 (also I don't mind that Cars on the Road analysis either, I just hope it doesn't ruin anty of the cars characters), but I also did not mind this series either. I always knew something felt off when I watched TS4 and Incredibles 2, but you were able to actually put it in words.
"You're losing to the LEGO game!"
I'm enamored with this quote.
Your conclusion about superheroes starting to get accepted at the end of the first one is the perfect motivation for Evelyn, she wouldn't have to participate in making superheroes look good if superheroes are doing that themselves.
She can have the same back story and have her antagonist be the politicians reverting the superheroe prohibition, using those same superheroes as tools.
That makes it so much cleaner.
Also, after the Underminer attack, the Parrs could have tried to live a mostly normal life so Bob would try to teach Violet to drive, that was she has to stop the car to talk with Dash.
The problem is that in this very movie they showed that superheroes weren't in a position to be accepted again at all, so her motivations still don't make sense.
@@drakegrandx5914 that's why I'm proposing an alternative
A re-write idea:
Winston IS the villain. Who cares if it's obvious? It's his motivations that would be the interesting part. He really does want heroes to be legal again, he's totally into heroes and villains and their stories, so he creates the Screenslaver. He incites a big enough problem that would bring the heroes to the forefront and show the world how they should be legal and how they really do help more than harm. We can have the Disney Twist Villain™️, we can have the big business bad guy, we can have Evelyn as a red herring, it would have been so easy!
The movie should have started with the robbery that killed their parents. Start the stakes high an actually blame the supers because it was actually their fault. It doesn't have to be as seriously their fault as "they refused to show up at all" an make it more of a "they were busy with other things". Also have the fact that it was actually their fathers fault hidden from them an thus making Evelyn have a real reason to hate supers an also giving her a reason to want supers outlawed again. Make it take place a few years later an have the incredibles be a popular super family, it'd give Evelyn more motivation to attack them directly. The brother who's obsessed with supers doesn't need to exist.
With this starting point an plot the movie would have been 100% better even with all the flaws of jack jack.
i agree but i think if they started with that and kept the deleted scene (gazerbeams funeral) and the deavors' *perspective* 😉 being that they didn't show up but in reality they were killed.. that would have made sense for 1/5 themes they went with too
I think the parents should have been killed because the superheroes they called was elastigirl and mr. Incredible. That gives Evelyn a personal vendetta. Better yet, make the parents be killed by / during the Omnidroid battle in the first movie. Either they are killed by collateral of the droid, and she blames the incredibles and all supers. Or that it was a home break in that happened during the Omnidroid battle and therefore the police and loca supers were all busy with big superhero battles and thus ordinary crime was forgotten. After syndrome and his motives became known after the battle, Evelyn would see supers, and the incredibles specifically, as the problem that lead to syndrome, the droid, and the battle and the distraction from normal crime.
Love your style of editing. Keep up the great work!
I really like these videos and how detailed they are! Your passion really shows off with your knowledge of the characters of the first film, even it’s themes, morals, and story. Keep up the good work and hope things go well!
"Man, I can't wait for Incredibles 3, where we have another f**king dinner scene!"
I know you're pretty mad about this, but there's something about the way you say it that just cracks me up.
The term Idiot Plot comes to mind. A plot that can only happen if the characters behave like idiots.
Here's an idea sence Edna mentions supers having multiple abilities when young. What if supers have multiple powers when young say 3-5, but only keep the one as they grow older (most likely what powers they use more, and in Jack Jack's case give him the possibility of keeping 3-4 powers. This would also play into making Mr.Incredible stressed. Cause normally he'd have elastic girl help him with Dash and viloit with whatever other abilities they had when they were younger.
Thing is this was both canon and not canon in the first movie according to the behind the scenes. Jack Jack's powers are based on the fact that he is a baby which has unlimited potential and can still become anything, with the idea that when he was older he would fit into ine better. This doesn't mean, though, that every baby had the unlimited potential. It was also kind of implied that a super baby doesn't start using the powers chaotically all of a sudden (who would have another baby after 2 almost killed you with laser vision?) because there aren't government provisions for super babies like a special babysitter. The power explosion is limited to moments of terror, and to being abandoned with a stranger exposing them to new things.
They also added new powers on top of the ones introduced in the movie and Jack Jack Attack which made him go from having confirmed limitations to just being a convenient plot tool or deus ex machina. They took it too far with no discipline in restraining themselves or molding to what was already established.
55:05 was the only time I was surprised by something that happened in this movie because I thought “Oh, she’s *dead.”*
The argument that Helen can just close her eyes is kind of weak. Light can pass through flesh quite easily if its bright enough, and Evelynn is not an incompetent tech designer. She probably would have thought of this oversight and cranked the brightness up to eye watering levels.
Facts
I just recently, and I mean literally yesterday, discovered this channel and it has easily become my favorite channel. After binging the toy story 4 videos I love how passionate you get about what you are talking about. And the editing is incredible for these super long videos. Truly wonderful work.
I watched Hocus Pocus 2 today, and that movie definitely deserves a Destroyed Everything video!
Really? I never seen the first Hocus Pocus, don’t judge me, but if you’re saying the second movie is bad then I’m just gonna stick with the first movie
@@JonathanGaeta No, I definitely don’t recommend anyone watch Hocus Pocus 2 unless they’re really curious about it!
The first movie is an entertaining 90’s cheesy Halloween kids movie, with some dark elements sprinkled here and there. The filmmakers knew what the movie was and went with it.
The sequel however is a very confusing and very dumb mess that has no idea what it’s trying to be!
Not to be rude, but while I haven't seen the second Hocus Pocus, I have seen the first one. These "Destroyed Everything" videos are for awful sequels to Incredibly well-crafted films. Hocus Pocus is fun, but it isn't "The Incredibles" or "Toy Story 3".
When you were talking about how Dash could have used his math-knowledge to help out in the climax, Hamster and Gretel's Math Punch episode came to my mind. Gretel had a problem with paying attention to the subject, and that causes problems when she tries to solve the issues with impulsive decisions, but when her brother is put into genuine danger, she has to pay attention and put the skills into use. She successeed and saves her sibling, while learning a valuable lesson about the importance of the subject and planning forward. And this show's main focus are also superheroes, so we are even on a brand with that example. (Also both Dash and Gretel are excitable little kids with ADHD)
This was WORTH the wait!
Your passion for good writing and films and clearly communicating and arguing those standards is inspirational
"Honey, where's my super suit?" Forever one of my favorite scenes of all time! Absolutely hilarious!
"You tell me where my suit is! We're talking about the greater good!"
"Greater good?! I AM YOUR WIFE! I'm the greatest GOOD you are EVER gonna get!! 😂😂😂😂😂
Oh man, i forgot about that second part 😂
@@toraokami5178 IT'S SO FUNNY! Every time!! Lol
"You're losing to the Lego game!"
This made my week, thank you.
I totally forgot that this one ended on a cliffhanger-esque setup for a third movie. Where the characters have gone just leaves whoever takes it next with nothing to work with.
Literally the entire movie feels like it was on a loop, which is a shame because watching the first one you'd think Metroville was a lived-in city with a rich history of heroes and villains to work off of.
28:30 about this scene, it also bothers me that dash doesn't instantly consider running over there while holding violet considering running on water was one of the most significant scenes for dash discovering his powers in the first movie
Violet does have multiple powers. Invisibility and Force Fields
Yeah, but that's only 2.
Honestly, a small throw away line of "When Violet was little, she could make herself invisible, make force fields and *insert third thing*"
Make is a point that MOST SUPER KIDS have like, 3 or 4 powers. It's weird for Jack Jack to have more than 5 powers, since that's the normal amount!
Also, we don't know if superpowers are inherent, but if they are, show us more super parents! There is no way that only Ellen and Bob had kids out of ale very super hero. Frozon doesn't have kids, that's fine, not everyone does, but no one else did either? We know that one superhero had 5 adopted kids, could they have powers? Who knows, because this movie doesn't even consider it
@@JDM-is-my-name Pretty much. Syndrome got all the old mainstream-supers, but there is no way he somehow got their potential kids killed too. There was a deleted scene where it is stated supers reproducing is illegal, but not only is the canon not bound to it because...ya know, the scene was deleted...but also because these two have kids and never heared any of it, probably because they already technically weren't super heroes anymore during that timeframe.
@@lpfan4491 they did get married before they became illegal, and I'd imagine that'd also somehow be illegal because, at the time, marriage = children or at least sex.
Again, a throwaway line would have fixed the whole thing for me, lol, just say that the other supers with kids didn't want to be there, small lines, simple background noise could have really helped the story make more sense, even if only a little bit
@@JDM-is-my-name Just gonna start by saying I agree with you, but no other supers have multiple powers in the movies other than Jack-Jack and Violet (mostly due to poor world building because the story (at least the first one) wasn't about the world). So your point of multiple kids having multiple powers is never shown or said in the movies so I don't know where that point of yours came from. And no adult supers are shown with multiple powers either, unless the flying ones have another
I think what bothers me the most about this movie more than anything is the title. Incredibles 2.
It sounds like the crew knew it was gonna be bad because of how little time they had with it's production, so they probably just took "The" out of the title so that people who hated "Incredibles 2" can easily separate it from "The Incredibles". The lack of a "The" also kinda fits with how stupid everyone is here.
What I really really liked about this video (aside from the bear perfect analysis breakdown and top notch editing) is how you show no restraint to let out profanity when you censored almost every one in your toy story 4 analysis. Great stuff man
Having binged these videos over the past few days, I feel bad for primarily listening to the audio over watching the editing; your interjections of “Deja vu” and the “But Ah!” Timones, anything you want in quotes being accompanied by visuals Phineas and Ferb’s mom, and all the one off clips to accentuate your dialogue does so much to keep such long videos entertaining! Your writing is obviously the driving factor, but your reading is also engaging. The passion and talent you have is palpable and frankly impressive lol
More therapeutic than you know for me to listen to someone thrash this movie relentlessly
One thing that really bothers me that nobody mentions is the movie doing a Chekhov’s gun with the living room water feature. The show sets up the fancy room with all the water, dash then goofs around with the buttons, I’m pretty sure Bob falls into it at some point (I only watched it once forever ago, forgive my memory.) So when Frozone shows up to fight the Walmart brand supers later in the show, in that exact room, I was thinking, “oh yeah! Dash can open the floor and Frozone will have tons of water to use and take on all the newbies at once! It’ll be awesome.” And they never did that!! Why bother with so many scenes about the stupid water? It was a small detail that I found irritating.
Okay. Time for a "How Ralph Breaks the Internet Destroyed Everything" series of videos.
(just kidding, you take your time and that's perfectly legit, it's your right - it can be an idea though...)
I very much like how you're willing to admit that the musical score, amongst other things, are better than Incredibles 1, because as much as this movie is a trainwreck, you still show that you're openminded that it does a few things right, it also proves that you're not here just for mindless bickering, which oftentimes hate reviews tend to fall in that rabbit hole. Another good watch.
I once went to a stage play with my family and i hated it. The plot was, to put it bluntly, surreal. Afterwards i told my mom that this play was the worst thing i have ever seen and she scolded me and said im stupid because i didn't understand the themes and metaphors. As a matter of fact, i did understand the themes and metaphors. I don't know how i could not have understood them when they were being shoved into my face at the expense of everything else, especially the plot.
I love surreal stuff, but yeah.
@@jeremyusreevu237 the problem isnt that it was surreal its that the plot made no sense in order to further the metaphor.
@@Oromie9 That's what I mean. Even something like Xavier Renegade Angel, which is an animated drug trip, still has a plot that makes somewhat sense.
32:53 FNAF Security Breach animatronics teleporting to your exact location after one of the security bots raises the alarm:
I love and respect how much time and effort you put into your videos. Keep up the good work!
I’m here after the incredibles 3 movie announcement.
I can only imagine how that is gonna start.
“Some how syndrome survived”
Dark science. Cloning. Something Syndrome knew.
But for real if they actually go this route because they ran out of villains for Incredibles 3 then I’d be more disappointed.
God, that final bit talking about how you're worried of how future Pixar films would turn out hits so hard and true bro. I too also thought this once great company would churn out banger after banger once they announced future films coming up. And while they did have some stinkers before and after Inside Out (because I consider that the "return" to Pixar's "renaissance" at least for a short time), it was still a company you know can put out a damn good film most of the time.
Now I'm damn-near completely lost all faith and expectations from them ever putting out some true 9/10 or 10/10 films, and at best I'm just hoping it would be a 5/10 at MOST.
This was an incredible breakdown series (much like your TS4 videos) and I can't wait to see what other films you either tear down or praise in high regards in great detail in the future.
When Syndrome 'monologued' it was always in service of the plot, he did it while interrogating Mr Incredible and to rub Mr Incredible's face in his downfall. The villain here just monologues to pad the run time.
The funny things is Eva's entire plan and motive could have made complete sense if written differently. Imagine that due to the destruction of the robot in the original, public opinion of supes had gone up, but failure to stop the Underminer shows how quickly the public can flip flop.
Thats why the bro character steps in, to help provide a sense of mission control and more delicately bring the public around to supes being around while providing an "insurance" program for collateral damage.
Thats why Eva though helps Elasti Girl. She wants to bring Supes back up to close to their glory days, than sabotoge them completely so that no one ever wants to legalize them again.
It would still be stupid, but it would make better sense in my opinion.
That's essentially what I _thought_ Evelyn's plan and motive might've been, until I saw this breakdown of it.
Evangelion