When this whole thing went down, an online friend of mine who is in the industry got in touch with a contact of his at Glendronach for clarification. The story we got via that channel is that they'd had a couple of batches returned from distributors for excessive cloudiness. This prompted them to remove that phrasing from the label so that, when a particular batch needed it, they could filter it "clear" again. Doesn't mean that they're now chill-filtering every batch they blend just because. This person also noted that their chill filtration process - remember, they're not all the same - is one of the less-intrusive ones in the industry. Both of these stories should be taken with some grain of salt, but I really get the idea that this was a whole lot of kerfuffle over what amounts to very little. Time will tell.
This is why YT whisky comments sections can be a hive of relevant information. Thank you for this, Jason. It all helps open the door a little more, and shows that there are indeed degrees of chill filtration.
I had a bottle of the new version of this for christmas and decided to compare it to the old bottling i had in the cupboard and I can say that I could not tell any difference between the two of them.Same colour, smell , coat line, legs and most importantly taste. just my view for what it's worth.
Yeah, I couldn't taste that much of a different, i know the older version quite well, had many over the years. It tastes like Glendronach. Think some folks can be a little...extreme with their views on this stuff.
I will need to see where the pricing plays out. GD 12 has been one of my favourites over the years. I am sad that they are moving away from their non-chill filtered roots. However, I will buy at least one of the new bottles and if it tastes like GD, I'm sure it will show up in the bar from time to time. I really enjoy their flavour profile. Thanks for the reasonable coversation. Cheers!
Just finished a bottle from 2018 and opened one from late 2021. I can't tell the difference... maybe what's expected from batch to batch. Love my GlenDronach 12.
I think the only true way you can know if there is a difference in taste is to get a sample of the older version and do a blind tasting of them together for comparison. Would be interesting to see the results. It's a pity you could not do that but hopefully you can at some point. Cheers for the review.
How fire you bring calm and reason into this heavily emotional argument. I only eat organic food. I only drive diesel German cars. I only use sustainable electricity. I only drink all natural whisky. Very realistic and moral. And never gets lost in the messaging.
If its all true(?)then its upsetting, Billy Walker put Glendronach back on the map.I like the core range, especially the 18. Then if they are chill filtered they won’t be suddenly become bad whiskies. Its just taking away something from the whisky (mouth feel and barley/cask oils etc ). Would I buy Glendronach again🤔, don’t know because I’ve got the 12, 15 and the 18 all closed in my cellar. As always enjoyable and interesting video, Slàinte Phil.
I finished half a bottle of it last night. I tried the non chill filtered version first and enjoyed it but the second chill filtered bottle was actually really better with a deeper sherry presence. Don't hate me for being honest lol
This is why chill filtration isn't always a good thing. Batches can taste better without it, despite what the whisky hoards may say. In the same way every cask is different, as is every batch.
Im curious about the bottle i have. The tube states non chill filtered and cask imparted color but the bottle itself does not state non chill filtered. Any insight on this. Thanks again and enjoyed the video.
Another fantastic review Phil! You mentioned Three Wood towards the end, which was one of the first whisky’s I bought. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on it? Maybe a review? 😁
Rachel Barrie knows what she ought to do but the corporate owners likely do not let her because of the quest for profit. I am happy with the Hielan 8 year old but that I believe was made under previous ownership. Thanks for sharing your thoughts . Well done 👍 ciao 👋 SF.
She's worked for big companies before, so this is nothing new. But I agree with your point. Some clarification from the Doctor behind it all would be ideal.
Great review! That rumour is really interesting. It would be fascinating if it was all just a communication issue and just that the marketing team interpreted natural colour and non-chill-filtered differently than most.
Cask imparted color does sound to me as though Management has decided against natural color and Marketing has found a cleverly opaque and legally sound turn of phrase to get round this because , of course, you could add color imparting ingredients to the cask before filling it. Its all a bit strange.
RB could easily come out with a statement about what is and what isn't being chill filtered as well as explaining the "natural cask-imparted colour" verbage on the front of the tubes/boxes. Cheers Phil!
The new owners are putting profits above quality and hoping you will just go along with it and pay MORE for LESS! The only way to stop the large corps that are buying up all the good distilleries and lowering their quality is to quit buying their product! Balance out their higher profit margins with significantly lower sales volume. Certainly do not pay a premium price for a whiskey that is giving you the minimum ABV allowed, you are paying for water, not whiskey!
I agree with most of your points, certainly with over pricing. But, even when Billy Walker owned this brand he bottled it at 43%ABV. The batching was more consistent, for sure. But on the face of it, minus the grey area regarding filtration, the whisky is pretty similar.
I don't think it's a matter of taste. They are exporting into markets like the US or Asia where customers drink their whisky on ice and so the importers don't want a liquid that can turn cloudy
This is a fact, it's one of the reasons that chill filtration was initially carried out on whiskies. But I'd prefer a more concrete step, compared to this grey and unsure area. Cheers!
So the GlenDronachs are still ncf except that the statement has been dropped due to some strange semantics by the marketing dept? One way to test is to take it down a bit more with some water and then leave it in the fridge for an hour. Do this to most double-distilled single malts that are ncf and they will cloud up, at least a little. Holding a torch against the glass helps to show it.
I shall do this tonight, Craig! As said, it was all overheard in a bar. But it correlates quite well to the change of wording on the new single cask releases. Could just be a weird coincidence. Test shall see!
I can say I won't buy another bottle of Glendronach very easily. My money, my mouth. I can get non-chill filtered, no color, and a higher ABV in my market from other distilleries for less money!
Will be interesting to see if they chill filter all their range now or just some of them . One big problem is there was no reason to mess with the current range for the Asian market when they could just bring out bottles aimed for that market and leave the staple range that we all came to appreciate alone.
It is okay, for sure. As both a bourbon and scotch fan, there are definitely scotch whiskies you should try and find. Deanston 12, Arran 10, Benriach 10YO, maybe Old Pulteney 15YO, too. Best way to judge is of you can get samples, miniatures, or attend tasting events. Make sure you know where you stand.
The 12, 15, 18 and 21 are now ALL chill filtered. You may find some 12 and 15 NCF on the shelf but you better buy it before it’s to late. I have tried the older 12yo and 15yo NCF against the new CF versions and while the CF are still a good statement, you can definitely taste the difference, especially in the 15yo. I have stocked up on the 15 and 18 NCF and will avoid GD, until I run out and then I’ll see how things shape up. For now, they are on my do not buy list. Lastly, a horse walks into a bar and hears.... what the hell are you talking about?....I have no clue what you said about your friend in a bar, marketing, stills, barrier filtered, American marketing etc...it made no sense. Here are the facts, GD is now CHILL FILTERED, they impart or add some color, it doesn’t matter what marketing says or the ramblings from an unknown clod at a bar. Are you saying GD is still NCF and NC but are claiming to be CF? That’s absurd.
The bottles still state natural colour, not at any point has the colouring been discussed in open forum by fans or Brown Forman. So where's your evidence for this claim? The single cask releases now state 'cask imparted colour' - this in itself doesn't deny or confirm the use if additional colourants. Meanwhile, the regular range state 'natural colour'. Why would any company chnage one component and not the other? Imagine the costs on label printing by phasing each one out slowly. Drunken staff talking in a bar will always be more truthful than any PR email. It was an amazing coincidence to over here any conversation about something as critical as that.
@@WhiskyWednesday The original NCF statements are identified as “Natural Cask-Imparted Color” that’s totally different from Natural Coloring. The 15yo Revival are now CF but are still “Natural Cask-Imparted Color” which means it’s color is derived from the Cask, that’s the difference. Natural coloring does NOT mean derived from the Cask, it only suggests the coloring is Natural and added to the product. In other words, Natural infers not man made, it does not confirm it is derived from the Cask. Henceforth, the color was added. And if I believed everything I heard in a bar I would still think the world is flat.
I think geographical terminology is getting in the way here. 'Cask imparted colour' is a phrase that I've rarely, if ever seen in the UK. Natural colour is a standard on all of our valued and quite cherished whiskies here. So by your explanation, distilleries such as Springbank, Arran, Glenallachie, etc - they aren't actually natural colour? That's what I'm reading from your comment above. All prior Glendronach expressions in the UK, both during and after Billy Walkers time at the distillery, all the way up until very recently stated: Natural Colour Non Chill Filterted It's only now has the use of the phrase 'cask imparted colour' been seen on UK shores, and currently only on a single expression being a single cask that I have in store. Relating back to my point in the video about what a dear friend had overhead. It does seem a little strange to hear about these misqueues from a marketing team and then see these grey area terms like 'cask imparted colour' appear on a bottle. Could just be a coincidence; I state nothing as fact in the video. I'm happy to know that you don't think the earth is flat.
@@WhiskyWednesday We may be saying the same thing but speaking a different language... English. In my prior post I misplaced the NC for NCIC. All the prior Billy Walker GD statements were NCF and Natural Color, including your references to Springbank, Arran and GlenAllachie, it says so on the label. However, you suggested the recent Chill Filtered GD 12 was little changed from the NCF version, taste and color. My point is, Natural Color results from finishing in the casks, typically when NCF. Point: natural is not man made. The current GD 12yo is CF and does not state Natural Color, nor does the 15yo, they state “Natural Cask - Imparted Color”. I don’t know what that means other than it is NOT Natural Color, in other words, color has been added. Natural, Imparted, man made or concocted.... what ever...it cannot be the same as Natural Color from sitting in the Cask. That was my point related to the marketing discussion (which still confuses me) about the label. Added color is often used because the whisky was Chill Filtered. When you CF you change the complex of the whisky, in particular, abv and color. There has been a distilling change to GD, it’s Chilled Filtered and not Natural Color because “it doesn’t say it on the label”. And the way things are progressing I’m not sure about Earths circumference.
When this whole thing went down, an online friend of mine who is in the industry got in touch with a contact of his at Glendronach for clarification. The story we got via that channel is that they'd had a couple of batches returned from distributors for excessive cloudiness. This prompted them to remove that phrasing from the label so that, when a particular batch needed it, they could filter it "clear" again. Doesn't mean that they're now chill-filtering every batch they blend just because.
This person also noted that their chill filtration process - remember, they're not all the same - is one of the less-intrusive ones in the industry.
Both of these stories should be taken with some grain of salt, but I really get the idea that this was a whole lot of kerfuffle over what amounts to very little. Time will tell.
This is why YT whisky comments sections can be a hive of relevant information. Thank you for this, Jason. It all helps open the door a little more, and shows that there are indeed degrees of chill filtration.
I had a bottle of the new version of this for christmas and decided to compare it to the old bottling i had in the cupboard and I can say that I could not tell any difference between the two of them.Same colour, smell , coat line, legs and most importantly taste. just my view for what it's worth.
Yeah, I couldn't taste that much of a different, i know the older version quite well, had many over the years.
It tastes like Glendronach. Think some folks can be a little...extreme with their views on this stuff.
I will need to see where the pricing plays out. GD 12 has been one of my favourites over the years. I am sad that they are moving away from their non-chill filtered roots. However, I will buy at least one of the new bottles and if it tastes like GD, I'm sure it will show up in the bar from time to time. I really enjoy their flavour profile. Thanks for the reasonable coversation. Cheers!
Same. I loved the old stuff, a little irked at the move away, but it still tastes good. Pricing will play a huge part. Thank you!
Just finished a bottle from 2018 and opened one from late 2021. I can't tell the difference... maybe what's expected from batch to batch. Love my GlenDronach 12.
Whisky is still quality.
Thanks for adding a bit of level-headed insight and the review into this GlenDronach thing. Cheers!
Pleasure!
I think the only true way you can know if there is a difference in taste is to get a sample of the older version and do a blind tasting of them together for comparison. Would be interesting to see the results. It's a pity you could not do that but hopefully you can at some point. Cheers for the review.
Will be aiming to do this soon, Tom. Especially of these vagueness goes up the line with 15 and 18YO.
How fire you bring calm and reason into this heavily emotional argument.
I only eat organic food.
I only drive diesel German cars.
I only use sustainable electricity.
I only drink all natural whisky.
Very realistic and moral. And never gets lost in the messaging.
Very easy to get lost these days.
If its all true(?)then its upsetting, Billy Walker put Glendronach back on the map.I like the core range, especially the 18. Then if they are chill filtered they won’t be suddenly become bad whiskies. Its just taking away something from the whisky (mouth feel and barley/cask oils etc ). Would I buy Glendronach again🤔, don’t know because I’ve got the 12, 15 and the 18 all closed in my cellar. As always enjoyable and interesting video, Slàinte Phil.
Thanks, David! Yeah, cherish those older bottles. I honestly think the current 12 is perfectly good for the money. I'll still buy it
I finished half a bottle of it last night. I tried the non chill filtered version first and enjoyed it but the second chill filtered bottle was actually really better with a deeper sherry presence. Don't hate me for being honest lol
This is why chill filtration isn't always a good thing. Batches can taste better without it, despite what the whisky hoards may say. In the same way every cask is different, as is every batch.
Im curious about the bottle i have. The tube states non chill filtered and cask imparted color but the bottle itself does not state non chill filtered. Any insight on this. Thanks again and enjoyed the video.
Hmmmm, could be some old tubes for the sake of shipping? Or the shop you bought it from put it in the wrong tube? Either way, still tastes good.
Another fantastic review Phil! You mentioned Three Wood towards the end, which was one of the first whisky’s I bought. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on it? Maybe a review? 😁
Hmmm, yes. It'd definitely worth a review!
Rachel Barrie knows what she ought to do but the corporate owners likely do not let her because of the quest for profit. I am happy with the Hielan 8 year old but that I believe was made under previous ownership. Thanks for sharing your thoughts . Well done 👍 ciao 👋 SF.
She's worked for big companies before, so this is nothing new. But I agree with your point. Some clarification from the Doctor behind it all would be ideal.
Great review! That rumour is really interesting. It would be fascinating if it was all just a communication issue and just that the marketing team interpreted natural colour and non-chill-filtered differently than most.
If it's true it would honestly make me cry and then laugh. Mostly cry.
I hope so.
Cask imparted color does sound to me as though Management has decided against natural color and Marketing has found a cleverly opaque and legally sound turn of phrase to get round this because , of course, you could add color imparting ingredients to the cask before filling it. Its all a bit strange.
Strange is certainly the word. I despise all these grey legal terms. Just tell me, at least have the gaul to be honest.
I've been looking forward to this
RB could easily come out with a statement about what is and what isn't being chill filtered as well as explaining the "natural cask-imparted colour" verbage on the front of the tubes/boxes. Cheers Phil!
Yeah, it's all abit of FUBAR situation. It's not the biggest deal in the world, not even in the whisky world. But some clarification would be ideal.
The new owners are putting profits above quality and hoping you will just go along with it and pay MORE for LESS! The only way to stop the large corps that are buying up all the good distilleries and lowering their quality is to quit buying their product! Balance out their higher profit margins with significantly lower sales volume. Certainly do not pay a premium price for a whiskey that is giving you the minimum ABV allowed, you are paying for water, not whiskey!
I agree with most of your points, certainly with over pricing. But, even when Billy Walker owned this brand he bottled it at 43%ABV. The batching was more consistent, for sure. But on the face of it, minus the grey area regarding filtration, the whisky is pretty similar.
I don't think it's a matter of taste. They are exporting into markets like the US or Asia where customers drink their whisky on ice and so the importers don't want a liquid that can turn cloudy
This is a fact, it's one of the reasons that chill filtration was initially carried out on whiskies. But I'd prefer a more concrete step, compared to this grey and unsure area. Cheers!
Flavor was excellent good review.
Agreed.
So the GlenDronachs are still ncf except that the statement has been dropped due to some strange semantics by the marketing dept? One way to test is to take it down a bit more with some water and then leave it in the fridge for an hour. Do this to most double-distilled single malts that are ncf and they will cloud up, at least a little. Holding a torch against the glass helps to show it.
I shall do this tonight, Craig! As said, it was all overheard in a bar. But it correlates quite well to the change of wording on the new single cask releases. Could just be a weird coincidence. Test shall see!
Not a big fan of all the oak in this one. It tends to be a bit overwhelming. Even in the older version. Nice review. Cheers.
Each to their own; the beauty of whisky. Thank you!
@@WhiskyWednesday very true. Cheers
did GD stated on 15 or 12 it is NCF before?
Prior to all of this, yes. I've just recieved new stock of the 15YO and that too no longer states that it is non chill filtered.
I can say I won't buy another bottle of Glendronach very easily. My money, my mouth. I can get non-chill filtered, no color, and a higher ABV in my market from other distilleries for less money!
Very true.
Will be interesting to see if they chill filter all their range now or just some of them . One big problem is there was no reason to mess with the current range for the Asian market when they could just bring out bottles aimed for that market and leave the staple range that we all came to appreciate alone.
Precisely. Just releasing a 10YO would've solved these problems. But no, the annoyance of big buyouts.
@@WhiskyWednesday Yup, stupid marketing idiots who make dumb decisions.
That all sounds like the opposite of what an American marketing team would do. It sounds more like what lawyers would do.
Legal grey areas.
Bourbon fan here. Scotch newbie. Just bought this and drinking as I watch. Should I up my game and spend the bucks? This is okay. Nothing special.
It is okay, for sure. As both a bourbon and scotch fan, there are definitely scotch whiskies you should try and find. Deanston 12, Arran 10, Benriach 10YO, maybe Old Pulteney 15YO, too.
Best way to judge is of you can get samples, miniatures, or attend tasting events. Make sure you know where you stand.
This is what happens when you sell to a big multinational.It is only a question of when it goes downhill further.
I cross my fingers and hope not.
The 12, 15, 18 and 21 are now ALL chill filtered. You may find some 12 and 15 NCF on the shelf but you better buy it before it’s to late.
I have tried the older 12yo and 15yo NCF against the new CF versions and while the CF are still a good statement, you can definitely taste the difference, especially in the 15yo. I have stocked up on the 15 and 18 NCF and will avoid GD, until I run out and then I’ll see how things shape up. For now, they are on my do not buy list.
Lastly, a horse walks into a bar and hears.... what the hell are you talking about?....I have no clue what you said about your friend in a bar, marketing, stills, barrier filtered, American marketing etc...it made no sense. Here are the facts, GD is now CHILL FILTERED, they impart or add some color, it doesn’t matter what marketing says or the ramblings from an unknown clod at a bar. Are you saying GD is still NCF and NC but are claiming to be CF? That’s absurd.
The bottles still state natural colour, not at any point has the colouring been discussed in open forum by fans or Brown Forman. So where's your evidence for this claim? The single cask releases now state 'cask imparted colour' - this in itself doesn't deny or confirm the use if additional colourants. Meanwhile, the regular range state 'natural colour'. Why would any company chnage one component and not the other? Imagine the costs on label printing by phasing each one out slowly.
Drunken staff talking in a bar will always be more truthful than any PR email. It was an amazing coincidence to over here any conversation about something as critical as that.
@@WhiskyWednesday The original NCF statements are identified as “Natural Cask-Imparted Color” that’s totally different from Natural Coloring. The 15yo Revival are now CF but are still “Natural Cask-Imparted Color” which means it’s color is derived from the Cask, that’s the difference.
Natural coloring does NOT mean derived from the Cask, it only suggests the coloring is Natural and added to the product. In other words, Natural infers not man made, it does not confirm it is derived from the Cask. Henceforth, the color was added. And if I believed everything I heard in a bar I would still think the world is flat.
I think geographical terminology is getting in the way here.
'Cask imparted colour' is a phrase that I've rarely, if ever seen in the UK. Natural colour is a standard on all of our valued and quite cherished whiskies here.
So by your explanation, distilleries such as Springbank, Arran, Glenallachie, etc - they aren't actually natural colour? That's what I'm reading from your comment above.
All prior Glendronach expressions in the UK, both during and after Billy Walkers time at the distillery, all the way up until very recently stated:
Natural Colour
Non Chill Filterted
It's only now has the use of the phrase 'cask imparted colour' been seen on UK shores, and currently only on a single expression being a single cask that I have in store.
Relating back to my point in the video about what a dear friend had overhead. It does seem a little strange to hear about these misqueues from a marketing team and then see these grey area terms like 'cask imparted colour' appear on a bottle. Could just be a coincidence; I state nothing as fact in the video.
I'm happy to know that you don't think the earth is flat.
@@WhiskyWednesday We may be saying the same thing but speaking a different language... English. In my prior post I misplaced the NC for NCIC. All the prior Billy Walker GD statements were NCF and Natural Color, including your references to Springbank, Arran and GlenAllachie, it says so on the label.
However, you suggested the recent Chill Filtered GD 12 was little changed from the NCF version, taste and color.
My point is, Natural Color results from finishing in the casks, typically when NCF. Point: natural is not man made.
The current GD 12yo is CF and does not state Natural Color, nor does the 15yo, they state “Natural Cask - Imparted Color”. I don’t know what that means other than it is NOT Natural Color, in other words, color has been added. Natural, Imparted, man made or concocted.... what ever...it cannot be the same as Natural Color from sitting in the Cask. That was my point related to the marketing discussion (which still confuses me) about the label. Added color is often used because the whisky was Chill Filtered.
When you CF you change the complex of the whisky, in particular, abv and color.
There has been a distilling change to GD, it’s Chilled Filtered and not Natural Color because “it doesn’t say it on the label”. And the way things are progressing I’m not sure about Earths circumference.