*Timestamps:* 0:00 - Intro 0:06 - Introduction 0:17 - Topic of the Discussion 1:17 - Arguments against the Liberal Critique of Islamic Apostasy Law 3:50 - Contractarian Form of Liberalism 7:04 - The Social Contract of Citizenship 10:16 - History of Governmental Head in England 11:05 - Constitution, Laws & Parliament in England 12:41 - Problems & Deprivation of Citizenship 14:42 - Liberal Arguments against Terrorist Laws 15:44 - Recap of arguments against Liberal Critique 16:11 - Further Arguments against Liberal Critique 17:22 - John Locke equating Apostasy with Treason 19:37 - Framework of Liberalism allowing for Treason Laws 23:37 - Rejecting the treason laws being the same as rejecting the whole social contract 24:47 - Ordinary Citizen not allowed to oppose laws framed by the Majority 28:13 - Problems with Individualism 29:15 - Apostasy Ruling in Islamic Schools of Thought 40:13 - Implementation of the Apostasy Laws (Example of the Ottoman Empire & America) 50:55 - Responding to the Liberal Arguments against the Islamic Apostasy Law
This left me unsatisfied to be honest. Women are looked at and treated differently is terms of Riddah laws as mentioned and the comparison was a woman (whom is looked at differently) compared to the American man Mumford. The like for like example should have at least been a man for a man as again the female would be judged in a more lenient fashion according to the Sharia so immediately I dislike the like for like comparsion. There were so many things that I expected like what makes an apostate an apostate etc that were not addressed here. There was so much meat left on the bone in this discussion. What if someone doesn't pray or fast Ramadan but has not verbalized it, are they considered an apostate. There is a hadith which states. " It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) observed: Be prompt in doing good deeds (before you are overtaken) by turbulence which would be like a part of the dark night. During (that stormy period) a man would be a Muslim in the morning and an unbeliever in the evening or he would be a believer in the evening and an unbeliever in the morning, and would sell his faith for worldly goods." How are these reconciled? This video didn't quench my thirst. Another thing when asking the question to the students was after the explanation "How would we answer them when they accuse us of these rulings" they will first site you using examples from the 1800s, they will also say that "well in our system we change and bend these laws, laws can be taken out and, skewed and or added in and with you guys this is the way for all time".. I personally feel this needs a part 2. JazakumAllahu khairan
Did he really not address what makes someone in apostate? I thought it was clear that it was someone who could be proven to leave Islam under Shariah...but perhaps he did not say that and I just thought I heard him say that. I might have to rewatch lol
@Snakejüce Wow really? This is a ridiculous take. I'm asking for clarification because I don't know and would like to know which is the sole purpose of these videos is it not? 2ndly, why would I make a video about things I need...... Ah forget it. You're not getting it.
Why would they mention what constitutes as an apostate and whether or not the absence of praying or fasting nullifies ones Islām? This is a completely different fiqh topic within itself and would perhaps require another video by itself. This video was to just talk about the ruling of apostasy in light of liberalism and contemporary western values. Secondly with addressing people who may say that their laws can be changed etc. - then I’ll say that the argument Brother Hijab is making, is that liberalism allows for these laws and it’s conceivable that a liberal state can mandate and apply these laws- regardless of whether or not they have those laws today. Furthermore, a lot of people will approach you while presupposing the truth value of their morals and impose it on Islam. At that moment you have to stop them and ask them why is it immoral to kill apostates? What’s their criteria to determine what’s moral and immoral? Make sure they don’t steer away from the question and for whatever they respond then debunk it from there (this requires some knowledge on ethics).
@@shahid8545 Wa iyaak brother. I didn’t go much into apostasy at all but here’s a video that talk about some of the hikmah you could share with people ruclips.net/video/2Xrep03qSRs/видео.html - there’s a lot more to be said about the immense hikmah of the ruling and you’d be surprised at how much of the hudood/ahkaam in the religion can be explained in tangible and intellectual ways.
Would like to see more Islamic references and breakdown, instead of linking and comparing everything with Western Ideologies. We don't care about the European ideology, if we don't even understand ours good enough yet.
Ignore other philosophies at your peril. If you/we don't understand diverse ideologies and reasonings, then you/we will be unable to properly respond to our children when they ask us questions about them.
U can't say ignore other ideologies when the ones critiquing Islamic laws are coming from such ideological backgrounds and/or comparing it to modern day ideological ruling systems. From an overview islamic point of view there's no need to even question why is there such a law in the first place.
Hey, Sapience Institute. Huge thanks for your enormous effort, but sometimes it's hard to watch a full hour of something when you're really interested in something, so I suggest creating a Sapience Institute clips channel. Jazakum Allah
I dont understand how rejecting the penalty for treason would necessarily mean you have to reject social contract theory. Yes you can’t opt out of the contract, but the contract can change? Could someone please explain? Thank you
These discussion needs to be more structured. What is to be discussed in the episode, some key poijts and then conclusion point wise. Due to this format where discussion is taking place, often it goes in a different direction and its difficult to understand the topic in toto. Jazkallah khair
@@rusi6219 nothing complicated about it. Y’all trying to compare riddah to citizenship and treason when it’s just not the same. Riddah is no where in the same level with treason. Also if you become a Muslim does that mean you’re a citizen of an Islamic stage? Example Saudi Arabia?
Well if you become a Muslim in a non Islamic country then it doesn’t matter since citizenship in such a country is not based on a religion. But an Islamic state is an ideological state and not a nation state. Citizenship is based on one’s ideology (i.e islam) and not geography (as in a nation state). So anyone who apostates from Islam in an an Islamic state is a defector and the only thing that you could do such people is either to strip them of all their human rights ( put in jail for lifetime) or execute them. All forms of governments punish defectors and Islam does the same and does so rightfully.
Tbh I always had a feeling that it meant if someone left Islam and in the future a war begun, it is halal to kill them if they were the opposition even if they were an ex Muslim. That’s why women don’t get the penalty.
Asalamu aleikum wa rahmatullah one shubha thrown around a lot lately is regarding khurooj, could you Brother Hijab please cover this topic? What's the Islamic stance regarding it?
@Mussulman that's true and may Allah bless you, but perhaps you been sleeping under a rock for the past years where there have been a constant ranting from people saying there's difference of opinion and they been throwing around texts from right and left. So I repeat it would be very good if Sapience presented this issue since there are many scratching their heads regarding khurooj and been confused in this issue.
@@tawheedfirst3228 There is no need to be so harsh my friend. Khurooj is indeed Haram if one(a group) is trying to succeed from an authentic Muslim leader. If this "Muslim" leader(let's say Bashar Al-Assad for example) is oppressing/killing the people in ways that are against the Quran and Sunnah then obviously the Muslimeen have a RIGHT to take up arms and fight back in order to regain their honor(as the Mujahideen in Al-Sham are doing may Allah Al-MU'IN protect them☝🏽) Rasul Allah(SAW) said anyone who dies defending his religion, family, honor, wealth is a Shahid. No doubt. BarakAllahu Feek
@@Religions.of.fandom harsh? Where you get this from? See, may Allah bless you and increase you in knowledge, you are proving my point they need to cover the khurooj. Bashar Al Qird is a kafir and khurooj against him is halal if criterias and capability is met. So yeah I really think Sapience should cover this issue because you're proving my point the layman is confused regarding it. Wa feeka barakallah
@@tawheedfirst3228 Yeah it would be good for them to cover it. Brother Dilli and Brother Hajji have a very solid discussion regarding this topic on 5 Pillars podcast. Check it out👍🏼😎
Even if one argues the avoidance of implementing certain rulings of Shari'ah may be sanctioned in rare cases, what is the point of this discussion? The reality is that Muslim countries for example haven't in one off or multiple cases abandoned implementing a ruling out of situational benefit. They have out and out replaced the rulings with other rulings, be it in submission to their "treaties" or International law agreements. This is what we call Istibdaal in the Shari'ah which is clear cut disbelief and the system and government and its rulers who do this are also clear apostates, this is by consensus of all the jurists. So this talk of delaying, abandoning, replacing Islamic punishments is an extremely dangerous issue and to mass generalise the replacement of Shari'ah rulings in obedience to International laws constitutes Shirk and Blasphemy, making this into an issue of benefits and harms is absurd. Do you believe in part of the book and disbelieve in others? Accepting one law of a system over the Shari'ah is no different to accepting an idol over the worship of Allah, as they both constitute slavery to its owner. One is in worship and one is in rule. Allah says in the Qur'an there is no god except Allah. Allah also says in the Qur'an the rule is not except for Allah.
@@suebee6036 because the Quran orders the obedience of Allah aswell as the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم , so to obey whats in the Qur'an but not the Sunnah is believing only in the part which commands to obey Allah but not the part which commands to obey the Messenger
@@millatiibrahim2416 how do we know what actions that the prophet did should be law or not. For example the apostates who were conspiring against the prophet was the command for them only or in general for all people who leave islam. How do we know this should be a common law or not. What is the evidence that Allah wanted this to be sharia etc how can we understand that? I only see fragmented hadiths were it is narrated that apostastes should be killed but how do we derive to be a law for all generations. Any book or imam you recommend that knows this very deeply
@@suebee6036 The statements of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم would be explained and applied in the correct way just how the verses of the Qur'an require that, its not a fragmented issue its a clear instruction from the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم where we get this ruling from. Then it would be applied with due process, by a ruler and a judge once the ruling is established.. not randomly. And yes I recommended 3 articles on apostasy on islamqainfo, please type in apostasy punishment and check the three articles they have on their website.
You are the brothers of the apostates calling them your beloved brothers. May Allah gather you with them on the day of judgement. You are one of the sources of shubuhaat.
From2 king moster master intitutenasional moster lion white / Rijaa Goibii Harmony Hinddu ,Budda ,kisten ,Islamic end of Darling Asia fasipic unieropa Antlantic perparticion god internasional tube one family World Citty Exfressss laseer moster Booom Bosster Love Darling world Family
Christianity is already dead. People are opting for atheism or to islam or to secular liberalism from Christianity. The Christians that are practicing are low in number and will keep on decreasing until no such people exist. And when are we against isa ibn maryam?. We accept him as a prophet and messenger of Allah the great. We don't call him a son of God as that is blatant blasphemy
Sulh hudabiyyah is not an evidence that a Muslim may give another Muslim over to non-Muslim authority. Muhammad ﷺ only handed over Abu jandal for the pure sake of receiving revelation, knowing very well that there would come no harm to abu jandal , otherwise the act itself would be apostasy
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
*Timestamps:*
0:00 - Intro
0:06 - Introduction
0:17 - Topic of the Discussion
1:17 - Arguments against the Liberal Critique of Islamic Apostasy Law
3:50 - Contractarian Form of Liberalism
7:04 - The Social Contract of Citizenship
10:16 - History of Governmental Head in England
11:05 - Constitution, Laws & Parliament in England
12:41 - Problems & Deprivation of Citizenship
14:42 - Liberal Arguments against Terrorist Laws
15:44 - Recap of arguments against Liberal Critique
16:11 - Further Arguments against Liberal Critique
17:22 - John Locke equating Apostasy with Treason
19:37 - Framework of Liberalism allowing for Treason Laws
23:37 - Rejecting the treason laws being the same as rejecting the whole social contract
24:47 - Ordinary Citizen not allowed to oppose laws framed by the Majority
28:13 - Problems with Individualism
29:15 - Apostasy Ruling in Islamic Schools of Thought
40:13 - Implementation of the Apostasy Laws
(Example of the Ottoman Empire & America)
50:55 - Responding to the Liberal Arguments against the Islamic Apostasy Law
Thanks brother
@@mohammadshamail7732
بارك اللٰه فيك أخي ❤️
Does anybody know if there's any pdf available anywhere for this shubuhat lecture series?
.
. ..
ok 👍🏽 👌🏽 👌🏽
Assalamualaikum my brother, May Allah reward you brothers with jannatul firdous aameen
Walaykum Assalam warahmatu Allahi wa'barakatuhu
Ameen
Sumameen
Love these episodes
Love you for the sake of Allah Bro.
Also, love these videos :)
May Allah swt bless the team at sapience institute
May Allah Accept your works, and make it a means of acceptance and Guidance for the Ummah!
What you guys are doing is mind blowing!
And soon it will be car outside Shiite mosque blowing
@@ua7234 weirdo
@@ua7234 que?
Good episode, jazakAllahu khairan
Great work man
This left me unsatisfied to be honest. Women are looked at and treated differently is terms of Riddah laws as mentioned and the comparison was a woman (whom is looked at differently) compared to the American man Mumford. The like for like example should have at least been a man for a man as again the female would be judged in a more lenient fashion according to the Sharia so immediately I dislike the like for like comparsion. There were so many things that I expected like what makes an apostate an apostate etc that were not addressed here. There was so much meat left on the bone in this discussion. What if someone doesn't pray or fast Ramadan but has not verbalized it, are they considered an apostate. There is a hadith which states.
" It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) observed:
Be prompt in doing good deeds (before you are overtaken) by turbulence which would be like a part of the dark night. During (that stormy period) a man would be a Muslim in the morning and an unbeliever in the evening or he would be a believer in the evening and an unbeliever in the morning, and would sell his faith for worldly goods."
How are these reconciled? This video didn't quench my thirst.
Another thing when asking the question to the students was after the explanation "How would we answer them when they accuse us of these rulings" they will first site you using examples from the 1800s, they will also say that "well in our system we change and bend these laws, laws can be taken out and, skewed and or added in and with you guys this is the way for all time".. I personally feel this needs a part 2.
JazakumAllahu khairan
Did he really not address what makes someone in apostate? I thought it was clear that it was someone who could be proven to leave Islam under Shariah...but perhaps he did not say that and I just thought I heard him say that. I might have to rewatch lol
@Snakejüce Wow really? This is a ridiculous take. I'm asking for clarification because I don't know and would like to know which is the sole purpose of these videos is it not? 2ndly, why would I make a video about things I need...... Ah forget it. You're not getting it.
Why would they mention what constitutes as an apostate and whether or not the absence of praying or fasting nullifies ones Islām? This is a completely different fiqh topic within itself and would perhaps require another video by itself. This video was to just talk about the ruling of apostasy in light of liberalism and contemporary western values.
Secondly with addressing people who may say that their laws can be changed etc. - then I’ll say that the argument Brother Hijab is making, is that liberalism allows for these laws and it’s conceivable that a liberal state can mandate and apply these laws- regardless of whether or not they have those laws today.
Furthermore, a lot of people will approach you while presupposing the truth value of their morals and impose it on Islam. At that moment you have to stop them and ask them why is it immoral to kill apostates? What’s their criteria to determine what’s moral and immoral? Make sure they don’t steer away from the question and for whatever they respond then debunk it from there (this requires some knowledge on ethics).
@@Dexter68136 Well the topic is "apostasy in Islam". However you made a good reply that benefited me. BarackAllahu feekum
@@shahid8545 Wa iyaak brother. I didn’t go much into apostasy at all but here’s a video that talk about some of the hikmah you could share with people ruclips.net/video/2Xrep03qSRs/видео.html - there’s a lot more to be said about the immense hikmah of the ruling and you’d be surprised at how much of the hudood/ahkaam in the religion can be explained in tangible and intellectual ways.
May Allah Ta'ala bless you
Love from India/Kashmir
Ali Dawah’s contributions were nice but he was also a little disruptive. I hope he can acclimate to this style of videos.
what are u talking about?
@@mystichalaly8083
He’s a bit playful sometimes.
Ali is always cool. His presence was special
As I can see --' sorry wrong entry
Would like to see more Islamic references and breakdown, instead of linking and comparing everything with Western Ideologies. We don't care about the European ideology, if we don't even understand ours good enough yet.
Ignore other philosophies at your peril. If you/we don't understand diverse ideologies and reasonings, then you/we will be unable to properly respond to our children when they ask us questions about them.
@@reamus9102
Questions like what?
U can't say ignore other ideologies when the ones critiquing Islamic laws are coming from such ideological backgrounds and/or comparing it to modern day ideological ruling systems. From an overview islamic point of view there's no need to even question why is there such a law in the first place.
Anybody who don’t care about western ideologies and Western way of life should be kicked out of the Western land
This is also up to you to learn yourself, hijab is not the one to go to for Islamic fiqh and aqeedah
Hey, Sapience Institute. Huge thanks for your enormous effort, but sometimes it's hard to watch a full hour of something when you're really interested in something, so I suggest creating a Sapience Institute clips channel.
Jazakum Allah
I would like to see your library tour
I dont understand how rejecting the penalty for treason would necessarily mean you have to reject social contract theory. Yes you can’t opt out of the contract, but the contract can change? Could someone please explain? Thank you
Liberal influence
Does anybody know if there's any pdf available anywhere for this shubuhat lecture series? Or should I make notes out of these myself?
id suggest you make yourself cuz then you’ll remember better, its working for me
@@azimak75 hmm I'm working on it
@@dr.atifkhan9994 send link if you dont mind bro
These discussion needs to be more structured. What is to be discussed in the episode, some key poijts and then conclusion point wise.
Due to this format where discussion is taking place, often it goes in a different direction and its difficult to understand the topic in toto.
Jazkallah khair
Excellent topic
What does it mean shubuhat? I'm from Italy my English is not very good
Doubt probably
Shubhuhat is an Arabic word meaning doubts
Jazakallahu Khayran Ahsanul Jaza
Becoming a Muslim is nothing like acquiring citizenship because I could be a Muslim and not be a citizen of any Islamic country/state
You're expecting too much of this munafiq to comprehend basic points.
By Not becoming Muslim in a country ran by Shariah you are subject to certain laws. That's the main takeaway.
@@rusi6219 nothing complicated about it. Y’all trying to compare riddah to citizenship and treason when it’s just not the same. Riddah is no where in the same level with treason.
Also if you become a Muslim does that mean you’re a citizen of an Islamic stage? Example Saudi Arabia?
@@randallfe no I agree with you, I'm not on Hijab's religion.
Well if you become a Muslim in a non Islamic country then it doesn’t matter since citizenship in such a country is not based on a religion. But an Islamic state is an ideological state and not a nation state. Citizenship is based on one’s ideology (i.e islam) and not geography (as in a nation state). So anyone who apostates from Islam in an an Islamic state is a defector and the only thing that you could do such people is either to strip them of all their human rights ( put in jail for lifetime) or execute them. All forms of governments punish defectors and Islam does the same and does so rightfully.
Wa alaykum asalam wa rahmatulahi wa barakatu
Please make a video on the correct concept of Jihad
so much love
Tbh I always had a feeling that it meant if someone left Islam and in the future a war begun, it is halal to kill them if they were the opposition even if they were an ex Muslim. That’s why women don’t get the penalty.
Asalamu aleikum wa rahmatullah
one shubha thrown around a lot lately is regarding khurooj, could you Brother Hijab please cover this topic? What's the Islamic stance regarding it?
@Mussulman that's true and may Allah bless you, but perhaps you been sleeping under a rock for the past years where there have been a constant ranting from people saying there's difference of opinion and they been throwing around texts from right and left. So I repeat it would be very good if Sapience presented this issue since there are many scratching their heads regarding khurooj and been confused in this issue.
@@tawheedfirst3228 There is no need to be so harsh my friend.
Khurooj is indeed Haram if one(a group) is trying to succeed from an authentic Muslim leader. If this "Muslim" leader(let's say Bashar Al-Assad for example) is oppressing/killing the people in ways that are against the Quran and Sunnah then obviously the Muslimeen have a RIGHT to take up arms and fight back in order to regain their honor(as the Mujahideen in Al-Sham are doing may Allah Al-MU'IN protect them☝🏽)
Rasul Allah(SAW) said anyone who dies defending his religion, family, honor, wealth is a Shahid. No doubt. BarakAllahu Feek
*Secede. Lol. Just noticed that blunder
@@Religions.of.fandom harsh? Where you get this from?
See, may Allah bless you and increase you in knowledge, you are proving my point they need to cover the khurooj. Bashar Al Qird is a kafir and khurooj against him is halal if criterias and capability is met.
So yeah I really think Sapience should cover this issue because you're proving my point the layman is confused regarding it.
Wa feeka barakallah
@@tawheedfirst3228 Yeah it would be good for them to cover it. Brother Dilli and Brother Hajji have a very solid discussion regarding this topic on 5 Pillars podcast. Check it out👍🏼😎
Even if one argues the avoidance of implementing certain rulings of Shari'ah may be sanctioned in rare cases, what is the point of this discussion?
The reality is that Muslim countries for example haven't in one off or multiple cases abandoned implementing a ruling out of situational benefit.
They have out and out replaced the rulings with other rulings, be it in submission to their "treaties" or International law agreements.
This is what we call Istibdaal in the Shari'ah which is clear cut disbelief and the system and government and its rulers who do this are also clear apostates, this is by consensus of all the jurists.
So this talk of delaying, abandoning, replacing Islamic punishments is an extremely dangerous issue and to mass generalise the replacement of Shari'ah rulings in obedience to International laws constitutes Shirk and Blasphemy,
making this into an issue of benefits and harms is absurd.
Do you believe in part of the book and disbelieve in others?
Accepting one law of a system over the Shari'ah is no different to accepting an idol over the worship of Allah, as they both constitute slavery to its owner.
One is in worship and one is in rule.
Allah says in the Qur'an there is no god except Allah.
Allah also says in the Qur'an the rule is not except for Allah.
I agree
Punishment for apostasy is not mentioned in the quran or am I wrong so how would that reject a part of the book?
@@suebee6036 because the Quran orders the obedience of Allah aswell as the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم , so to obey whats in the Qur'an but not the Sunnah is believing only in the part which commands to obey Allah but not the part which commands to obey the Messenger
@@millatiibrahim2416 how do we know what actions that the prophet did should be law or not. For example the apostates who were conspiring against the prophet was the command for them only or in general for all people who leave islam. How do we know this should be a common law or not. What is the evidence that Allah wanted this to be sharia etc how can we understand that? I only see fragmented hadiths were it is narrated that apostastes should be killed but how do we derive to be a law for all generations. Any book or imam you recommend that knows this very deeply
@@suebee6036 The statements of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم would be explained and applied in the correct way just how the verses of the Qur'an require that, its not a fragmented issue its a clear instruction from the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم where we get this ruling from. Then it would be applied with due process, by a ruler and a judge once the ruling is established.. not randomly. And yes I recommended 3 articles on apostasy on islamqainfo, please type in apostasy punishment and check the three articles they have on their website.
As for the claim that apostasy was understood to really mean treason or fighting against Muslims. Then this is a mere assumption and is untrue.
can ali be quite please i am trying to learn
👍🏼👍🏼
❤️❤️❤️
Barakalafeeq
Reading these comments tells me how far apart Muslim are among each other! In the land of the blind the one Eyed is the King! 🙏🤫
Riddah is no where comparable to laws on the west
You are the brothers of the apostates calling them your beloved brothers. May Allah gather you with them on the day of judgement. You are one of the sources of shubuhaat.
Love hearing Ali dawah there :D
ALI DAWAH TALKS TOO MUCH
From2 king moster master intitutenasional moster lion white / Rijaa Goibii Harmony Hinddu ,Budda ,kisten ,Islamic end of Darling Asia fasipic unieropa Antlantic perparticion god internasional tube one family World Citty Exfressss laseer moster Booom Bosster Love Darling world Family
Anyone against Christ Jesus will fail woefully specially donkeys from Mecca. You are living in borrow land
Christianity is already dead.
People are opting for atheism or to islam or to secular liberalism from Christianity.
The Christians that are practicing are low in number and will keep on decreasing until no such people exist. And when are we against isa ibn maryam?. We accept him as a prophet and messenger of Allah the great. We don't call him a son of God as that is blatant blasphemy
Ur a pagan 😂
Ur a pagan 😂
Sulh hudabiyyah is not an evidence that a Muslim may give another Muslim over to non-Muslim authority. Muhammad ﷺ only handed over Abu jandal for the pure sake of receiving revelation, knowing very well that there would come no harm to abu jandal , otherwise the act itself would be apostasy