Pyzel "Gremlin" Surfboard Review by Noel Salas Ep.63
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
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In this episode I review the Pyzel Gremlin in super fun 1-5’ surf. The Gremlin is a true small wave Groveler with low entry rocker, and its wide point front from center making it a great paddler. The belly of the board is relatively flat making it super fast through flat sections on small waves coupled with medium tail rocker for performance in the pocket.
I found the Gremlin to be very fast and responsive and I enjoyed surfing it as a Thruster and a Quad. I highly recommend the Gremlin for beginner/intermediate to the pro level for ease of surf and high performance maneuverability. I found this board to excel in 1-4’ surf and beyond that I recommend transitioning to the Phantom to maximize each boards strengths.
This episode is the last of a three board series that started with the Pyzel Ghost as a HPSB / Mini Step Up, the Phantom as a daily driver, and now the Gremlin as a small wave Groveler. Each board has the Ghost DNA and surf with noticeable similarities in board outline and attributes. All three boards are a favorite of mine for 2018 in each wave category. We got great waves for all 3 board reviews and each board proved to be user friendly with high performance surfing in the pocket and incredible down the line speed.
EPS Gremlin Board DIMS:
5’4” x 19.25 x 2.31 Liters 26.35 
Кино
Great reveiw,; what make the review awesome, is the section where you do a waves-surf analysis, that's awesome, don't stop doing this, it's a great plus we don't find in other channels, your channel is the best and will be saw decades to come, as a reference ! great job Noel. hope to see some videos for tips and techniques, please !! for intermediate to advanced surfers soon, thanks, you are the best Noel ! cheers
Blade Runner Yewww! Thanks for the kind words. Glad you like our show.
Thanks for the review, guess im a little slow to the gremlin party. I just bought the 6' gremlin a few months back and surfed mokuleia overhead with the am2 tech flex quad set up and it was unreal... Scary fast and yet had choke control making the turns. Im 6'2" ,195 lbs and 49 years old for reference. Have a 6-4 phantom also and ride it thrust and quad in all different sizes. Wishing I would have bought the 6'2 phantom but still, when we transition to south shore oahu waves for the summer, both boards will be invaluable. Pyzels rails on these boards are perfect. Keep the reviews coming, thanks again.
Hey thanks for the comment! How are you liking the Gremlin now that you've had it for some time. Is it good in thigh to waist high surf? I'm looking for a step down for that size surf and wondering if this is the board?
Keith, I still surf my gremlin, I’d have to say it’s my go to board for everything up to shoulder high. I switched it back to a thruster recently and I’d say it’s one of the best grovelers ever made. It handles in all wave types, and it’s just unreal how easy it is to snap turns. The rails are perfect. You won’t regret getting one. Mine is poly btw and I now surf it thruster instead of quad in waves stomach high + but still I’d say go quad in waist high and smaller.
@@Freediver41jtf Awesome, thanks mate! Really appreciate the reply. I presume when it's bigger than shoulder you ride the Phantom instead? Do you have other boards (a Ghost maybe?) for when it gets too big for the Phantom?
Keith actually I snapped the phantom, went and custom ordered a 6-3 shadow. I ride that north shore. South shore I ride a 6-3 mayhem el patron now. More volume for the long paddles we get.
@@Freediver41jtf Cool, I take it you're liking the Shadow?! So your Gremlin is around 3L more volume than your Shadow? Do you wish you had a smaller Gremlin now, or the extra volume over the Shadow is good? It doesn't feel a bit too boaty? Did you get it epoxy or PU?
Thanks for another awesome review Noel, and thanks to Aaron for the wonderful camera work. As you stated, those 3 Pyzel boards look the goods as a 3 board quiver for sure. I will certainly be looking at a Gremlin and a Phantom in the future.
Ken Kohncke Stoked you like the review and Aarron is the man!!! Cheers
hey noel just a little info for viewers. got the stock 5'2 gremlin and for couple weeks surfed it with blackstix. great paddler and super fun, but felt like something was missing.decided to get creative and threw in some merrick AMT twin fins w/trailer. very surprised but it went insane. super fast and turned on a dime.crazy how fins change up a board so much. cheers🤙
Matt Cotton hey matt, this post caught my eye. Reckon the MR twin + 1 setup could work in this?
@@xWaxxy i def think it would work.its a whole different feel. fast and loose but never slid out due to the trailer fin.this is my favorite board now.
Matt Cotton cheers Bru, I think I’ll pull the trigger and try it out. Out of interest, do you surf mostly beachies or points with that set up?
@@xWaxxy mostly beachies,and used it on a local reef slab and it went really good too.yea it cant hurt. the first time for me i took 2 sets of fins down to the beach just in case.
@@xWaxxy how did it go for ya?
Wow, your surfing is on point with that board. Never caught or bogged or got weird. Super flowy.
Chris Song The Gremlin is sick!!! Thanks for the kind words.
Great review Noel as usual...my personal view is that out of these three boards you surfed the best on the Phantom...looks like you found a magic carpet in this board.
Noel, You were flying on that one right with the triple floater. that board is a jet.
James Ryan Agreed.... can’t believe I fell on that floater.
happens to the best of us. still killed it out there.
Noel does it again. I won't ever by a board without your youtube blessings, even though I'm pretty sure you could rip on a piece of plywood. Quick question: I'm a lower intermediate, able to pop up consistently, turn down the line, set the rail and do a couple pumps. Typically during a session I have like 3 or 4 "good waves" for me. I'm 5'11" 180lbs. Was riding a 6'6" 46L but wanted to come down a little in size to transition to get more performance/maneuvering. Would a Gremlin be good for me? I was looking at the 6'
Absolutely.. the Gremlin or Astro POP would be epic for you
I like the way you surf on pyzels. Good transitions but also projection
IzandEva Inmyheart Ceers!! All 3 Boards felt great.
Had my first surf on one of these today. First impression was that it went unreal. Really good paddler and went good as a thruster. Haven't tried as quad but I am thinking it will go even better as one. So far so good!
Hey thanks for the comment! How are you liking the Gremlin now that you've had it for a bit longer. Is it good in thigh to waist high surf? I'm looking for a step down for that size surf and wondering if this is the board?
@@dadthelad Hi! Yes it is good in thigh to waist high surf. I'm blown away by how good it paddles. It will paddle into anything. Has a lot of drive and flow in smaller waves either mushy or sucky. Definitely a groveller though. I had a JS Blak Box before the Gremlin that I could throw around quite easy. The Gremlin has more speed over flat sections and more flow in smaller gutless waves which equals more fun. Hope this helps. Still loving my Gremlin👍
@@stevenb781 Awesome, thanks for that! What board do you ride when it's a bit bigger? Did you go for more volume in the Gremlin, or is the same volume good enough due to the different shape?
@@dadthelad it's the only board I have now, so if it's bigger I'm on the Gremlin. Have had it out in four foot surf and it went fine. I increased the volume as I've been wearing a heavy wetsuit but I reckon if you stayed with your normal volume it would go really good for you. Might pay to get a second opinion from someone else though, that's just my thoughts 👍👍
Awesome, thanks for that! I'm replacing my entire quiver, as it's getting a bit on, so have ordered a Shadow for shoulder to head and a half surf, and a Ghost for bigger than that. Will see how they go, and then probably get either a Gremlin or Astro Pop step down if I like the other boards. I did already get a Radius, as my main HPSB died, but struggled on it and was missing too many waves, as it's just too much rocker and too knifey, so felt smaller than it is, plus I'm not getting any younger. It went great once I was on a wave, but missed too many waves, so ordered a Shadow with an extra L, and will sell the Radius. Fingers crossed.
ATTENTION PYZEL AND FUTURE! This year I have purchased a Ghost, Phantom, and Gremlin for my travel quiver. I have also purchased Futures JJ-2 Large Tech Flex, HS Quad Rears, and a set of the Legacy Series fins all because of Noel reviews and suggestions on these products. I live in North Alabama and luckily get to take multiple surf trips a year but I don't get easy access to surf shops for suggestions or even to feel the boards in my hands. I go strictly off Noel reviews and suggestions because I trust his opinion and knowledge. He has been accurate on all his reviews and I'm happy with every purchase I've made. I'm leaving this review only to remind the surf industry of his impact to us consumers. PLEASE PAY THIS MAN WHAT HE DESERVES!
Aaron Kelly Cheers for the kind words!!! Stoked for you
@surfnshow, love your reviews, and you're an asset to the community. Will you be doing a review of the pyzel precious? cheers!
No sorry…. I asked the folks at Pyzel for it and I got crickets. I tried
my Gremlin is magic. Been waiting years for this board
Just picked up a 5’6 Gremlin! Such a solid looking board and should be perfect for the small waves we get here in NE Florida. Stoked and ready to try it out
Stoked for you... let me know how it goes!! If you want to fly and shred it as a Quad I recommend our 5 fin set. Check them out here....
www.shopsurfnshow.com/collections/fins/products/momentum-series-5-fin-set
Just took it out for the first time and I was absolutely ripping on 2-3 ft. waves, I was surfing a 5’9 high performance board previously and the difference between the two on small waves is unreal. Definitely a great purchase.
@@chaseturknett still going well for ya?
@@MrB1019 Most definitely, I highly recommend picking one up for the smaller days
@@chaseturknett I got one. Epoxy. Haven't ridden yet.
Yewwwww you shredded that Groveler. Definitely picking one up. Love the Ghost lineup
Eamon Shields Cheers!! Let me know how it goes for you....
Surf n Show Reviews hey man, we talked about the seaside the other day. It’s either this or the seaside, which one would you go with. This will be my first short small wave board.
Eamon Shields Both boards are epic. The Seaside is a High Performance Fish and the Gremlin is Groveler with a Thruster vibe to it. You either want a fish/Quad performance feel or a little more pivot in the pocket. Both boards a lightening quick and grovel very well.
@@surfnshowreviews7777 Thanks Noal !! Will let you know which one I go with
@@eamonshields2754 what did you get?!
Hi Noel
my name is Sean and I live in Cape Town South Africa:) My son and I watch your videos all the time and they are seriously great! Thanks for all the awesome surf lessons and content.
I am looking to buy a new shortboard and am specifically looking to get a board that I can surg in smaller not so great waves (ie. 1-6 ft fairly flat), as my local break most often has waves more suited to a groveler or long board.
I am 92kg (203 lbs) and 6'0. I am 40 years old ans surf roughly 1 -2 days a week.
I would say I am an intermediate surfer.
I currently have these 2 boards:
(1) My shortboard
6'10 19 1/4 2 3/4
> I dont know the volume as it was shaped in 2002. I would estimate its probably around +-35L
(2) My longboard
9.1
I can still catch and surf my shortboard but I find it slow and slugish in the smaller conditions. (most of the time Im surfing with a wetsuit aswell)
I have been researching and think I have narrowed down which boards I would like to get (The Pyzel Gremlin or Lost Puddle Fish. The Pyzel Gremlin is the one I am leaning to at the moment).
** Pyzel Gremlin
6'4 21 2 3/4 40.70L
6'6 21 1/4 2 7/8 44.20L
(www.pyzelsurfboards.com/index.php?page=surfboard-details&id=5893)
Puddle Fish
5’11 22.00 2.70 40L
6’0 22.25 2.75 42L
6’1 22.50 2.75 43L
6’2 22.50 2.80 44.62L
(lostsurfboards.net/surfboards/puddle-fish/)
I looked at the following volume calculators and I would estimate Im a 0.42GF
lostsurfboards.net/surfboard-volume-calculator/
So that actual recommends a volume below 40L (but I feel thats too low as Ive also riden a 40L bshortboard and it feels too sluggish).
This volume calculator would sugest Im between 40L - 45L: surfsimply.com/surf-coaching/volume-weight-ratios/
So I cant decide whether I should be going for a 40L board or a 42L or a 44L?
Im not sure if you have any thoughts or advice?
thanks :)
regards,
Sean
what did you end up going with?
Fair play to you...I echo all the positive comments on your reviews...my question is why would you get a Gremlin instead of a Psycho Killer, if I was surfing just one board? Up to head high. Cheers aid
Adrian Hawke The Psycho Killer Really starts to excel in waves that is head high up to 6’. The Gremlin excels in 1-4’ surf. Really no comparison on these two boards. The Psycho Killer is more of a daily driver (easy to ride HPSB) and the Gremlin is a true Groveler.
Noel... Neckbeard 2 or Gremlin? Your stars ratings point to one being a little better.
Kapukataumahaka Owheo The NB2 is my Favorite board for 1-6’ surf but the Gremlin does paddle better.
Noel thanks for the review. I hope they release this board to Firewire construction. It reminds me of the Average Joe from CI. Which was my favorite board, but the stock construction for a 700 board was not great. Ive had my firewire Quiver for years and still has pop and life, though I still miss my Average Joe!
Maurice Cureton Stoked you like this review. I had a Joe and it was a fun board... a bit of a cruiser for me but very user friendly and made small waves fun.
Maurice Cureton pyzel and firewire collaboration is discontinued. Stubby bastard was the last Pyzel board made by FW and there will be no more firewire pyzel models.
Karl Jakobsson Thanks for this information!
Holy moly, you were flying to every section on this board. How does it compare to the CI sampler?
bodhi tree The Sampler and Gremlin is a good comparison. They are both very fast but I think the Gremlin is a better paddler and has a little more traction off the bottom. The Gremlin might have a little more tail rocker.
Just the question I was about to ask! Hahah greaaat review Noel! Thank you very much man! Hope you had a Merry Christmas, and have a wonderful Year!
Hi Noel, you've mentioned in the comments that you preferred the Astro Pop as it's more high performance. I'm wondering if that opinion still holds when the surf is only thigh to waist high, or if you preferred the Gremlin when it's that small?
Keith Both boards are epic... I prefer the Astro POP in smaller surf too
@@surfnshowreviews7777 Thanks Noel!
such a fun review to watch, you rock Noel \m/
Ardy Aryan yewww
I'm looking for some fins for the Pyzel Gremlin Swallow tail. I'm 5'5" and 135lbs and surf punchy beach breaks/softer beach breaks in the Bay Area in the 1-5 foot range. The board came with the Pyzel Paddillac fins, but these feel slow and not very lively. I'm looking for more speed and looseness and was wondering if you had any recommendations?
I was thinking the EA Blacksticks potentially. Thanks!!
Hey Noel, for the 1-3' surf what do you think is better the Gremlin or the Astro pop ?
merkerben I like the AP better... more performance. The Gremlin paddles better and it’s a little faster down the line but the AP out performs the Gremlin top to bottom.
I need to get a "I want to surf like Noel" t-shirt
I’m looking to pick up a small wave performance board… I’m seeing the gremlin and mini ghost are really good options. Any thoughts ? Appreciate you sharing all your knowledge it helps out so much.
For small wave groveling i say AP. For small wave ripping… more like HPSB surfing I say MG Squash tail
great review Noel... as usual. Tank you! Is it proper to look for a little extra-litrage in a step-down board? For example my current daily driver is a C.I. Fred Rubble 5.9 x 24.5 lt in PU and I am wandering which would be the right PU Gremlin dimensions for me. The 5.3 x 26.1 lt, or the 5.2 x 24.8 lt? Consider that I am a 5.7 x 62 kg intermediate surfer (not a strong paddler).Thank you in advance, best
Simone Ferrari I would go 5’3.... it’s still short enough so you can turn it quickly.
Great Vid. Looking at one of these on the used rack----here on the EC all those waves you rode this thing on would not be considered grovler at all but "good" "really fun"...anyway this looks like a stick for me especially at a used price ( :
Hi Noel, thanks for the great reviews. A question: I'm considering a groveler for small waves.. 5'5" or 5'6" maximum. Consider that I ride a Phantom 5'8" and a Seaside 5'6"..so looking for something in between for small and not clean waves. Would you go for a paddle jumper or a gremlin or the CI ultra joe? I have read the previous comment but would like a detail. I grabbed those and the gremlin seemed much more thick and heavy to me. Looking for your point of view!
if noel reviewed a snapped wavestorm he would still rip it
-SpyGuy- Classic... I suck on soft tops... ha
Any opinion on the tail? Squash vs swallow for local so cal beach break type waves. Keep up the great reviews.
Both are epic... the Swallow might offer a little more hold or traction.
Hi Noel , do you think a 2+1 setup would work with a swallow tail on the gremlin??
Noel, for the Gremlin do you recommend going up in volume compared to daily driver? I'm 54 yrs old and finding it harder to get into waves as early or as accurate my feet in fast waves. So getting in earlier and more stable is good but do not like the feel of wide/thick boards and how they are hard to get on rail, more of a function of width than volume. Usually ride around 32.5 +/- in volume. Thinking 5'9" Gremlin but volume might be low for groveler but at 20 1/4" wide, already wider than I would like. I'm 5'11" 175lbs...and old.
Thanks again for the great hands on reviews.
Thanks
Water Dog Those liters sound about right. Width can make boards feel a bit tight under foot but great stability right. I say 5’9 sounds good and if your struggling in catching waves then maybe 5’10
@@surfnshowreviews7777 Thanks for the fast reply. When waves are soft, no issues getting in early enough or landings. On East Coast VA/NC I know you'd think waves would break slow, at least in VA, but even if not big, often dumpy funky and difficult to paddle into early. On shorter boards with more volume cannot push board down into wave and get hung up at the top, spend the day going over the falls. From your comments on this board, sounds like it paddles easy for it's volume/size, is that correct?
Water Dog Yes... excellent paddler
@@surfnshowreviews7777 Noel, sorry for the comment attack... last one, promise. How would you compare the Gremlin to the Neck Beard 2?
Water Dog Gremlin will paddle better and have more stability for you and what your struggling with.
Noel, what would you rate your level of surfing ?
christian reece I think there is 5 levels.... I would classify myself in the Expert range.
Beginner
Intermediate
Advanced
Expert
Professional
just bought a gremlin for my Japan surfing, the waves are small and slow where I live. my epoxy is so wobbly and pyzel recommended that I go with the PU gremlin
If the waves are small and gutless maybe try a different construction. Check out XTR10
Another great review Noel...ripping!! Yew
Christian69James Cheers
Hi Noel, you were ripping on this board! How does it compare to the CI Rocket Wide? Would appreciate your analysis.
Kapukataumahaka Ōwheo Both boards are next level small wave shredders!! The Gremlin is a tad faster, better paddler, and easier to surf. The RW can do tighter turns in the pocket and feels a little more responsive in 1-2’ surf.
what would you suggest as best surfboard: ci rocket wide or pyzel gremlin for 2-5 foot waves beach break? thanks for your great job
Gremlin goes hard.. Only used hs PC carbon quads thus far, 1 surf in. 3-4.5 foot was going hhhhhhard.. Didn't feel jittery at all.. Mines an Eps with some kind of black stringer
I need some help! I can’t decide if I should get the gremlin or a phantom. I wanna be able to preform well in small waves like you demonstrated in the video but I also wanna be able to preform well in anything bigger for example the 5-8 range. Will the phantom still work well In smaller waves and will the gremlin still work in bigger waves? I want a board that I can use in the summer when the waves are smaller but also during the bigger winter swells. I understand that the phantom is a Daily driver but do you find it to really work in everyday conditions? Also, is there any other pyzel boards that you think would work best for what I’m trying to get? Please let me know which you would think is best!
Kai Lichtenwalter Phantom for 3-7’ surf... Gremlin for 1-3’ surf. The Gremlin does not have enough rocker to surf waves 4’ and bigger. If you want a One board quiver then out of these two boards then I would go Phantom
Surf n Show Reviews thank you🤟🏽
Looking to get a groveller for weak, mushy, 1-4ft beach breaks. Thoughts between Gremlin, Seaside, PJHP, Epic Joe and Rocket Wide? And should I stay same volume as everyday shortboard (25.5ltrs)? Skill level advanced, 176cm, 68kgs. Thanks a million!
Recently found your channel and loving it, Noel!
Tim Teale All of these boards your thinking about are epic. The Gremlin and The new Pyzel Astro Pop are sick. I would go same liters... and I would check out the Astro Pop.. a little more performance in the pocket. It goes mental as a Thruster, Quad, and 2+1. The review on the Astro Pop will drop in a couple weeks
@@surfnshowreviews7777 I'll be waiting eagerly for the review! Cheers Noel.
Appreciate looking at your reviews Noel, I was wondering how this compares to the ultra joe?
Manuel Burgos Gremlin paddles better and a little faster... the UJ our performs the Gremlin in the pocket
Noel, please review the Lost 3.0 Stub!
Great review!
I’m curious what you think... I have a limited budget. Should I buy a Gremlin or Phantom? Currently I have a Ghost. Will the Gremlin work in up to head high surf?
If it head high and barrels it might struggle a little to you bottom.., not much rocker. However it will go good in Head high waves that aren’t super hollow.
@@surfnshowreviews7777 Thanks! If I could ask one more question, would you recommend the Dominator II or the Phantom?
Awesome review, really appreciate it. Seeing if you can please do me a favor, and help answer what size gremlin I should rock? I am a novice but quick learner, 5’11” 185-190 lbs, with some belly fat to lose. Also, read these boards were mainly for north shore groveling which is different to other groveling spots? I’m in North OC. I look forward to hearing from you! Thanks!
HighRollaaaaaaaaaaaa I would say your liter range should be around 33-35. That puts you on a 5’10 Gremlin.
Hey Noel would you still recommend this as a groveler in 2020? Or any new suggestions?
Do you think the cabianca the medina would grovel well or just smallish waves?
Anthony Go Astro POP. The Medina model is more of a Small Wave high performance board. The Astro POP will grovel better in 1-2’ mush....
Great review, thanks!! I consider myself a beginner/lower intermediate, 6.1 ft, 83 kg
My pop-up , down the Line and begin of the Bottom turn is Solid, but combining top turn into more Bottom turns is what i AM improving now! My rides are short!
I consider to buy a gremlin 6.4 (almost 41 liter) or a CI rocket wide 6.3 (43 liters) or a pukas el loco (44 liters) , what do hou advice in the stage of learning where i am now? And do i need more length in the board or shorter board en more volume in this stage? So much questions! :)
Thanks for helping out!
I think the 6’4” Gremlin will go good for you. Easy to surf and paddles very good!
I disagree. If you are already going down the line and catching waves a board that big (40+l) will cause you a lot of grief. Not only does it not really paddle that much better, if even marginally (especially if you just go thick and wide), it will not survive steep drops as you will struggle to bury the rail. The extra volume for beginners is a great advice if you stick to funboards or mals, but an overly oversized shortboard is super difficult to surf and will mess with your foot placement and stance. Just my 2cents! Try 31-34l at your weight if you are lower intermediate.
Karl Jakobsson
Super thanks for your info! I need to say that i am definitely not a good surfer, more beginner then lower intermediate (20 sessions a year, 2 trips a year) surfing for 5 years ! I came from a 7.7 , then i ride a 7s superfish 2 6.6! Then a mate made me a board (local shaper, his 5th board ever made) i surfed it but it is to Thick! My down the Line and pop up is ok (even in 1.5 tot 2 m) but i have really diffeculty performing good Bottom turns to Stay in the pocket, 9/10 i end up in the White water, so i set my turn to late, i need to work on my technique to do proper turns and i want to Stay in the pocket longer so my time on the wave is longer! I need to say that i live in the Netherlands with 1.5 max!
I think is that i made the mistake to go to early shorter so i am struggling to make more progression! So that's the reason i consider going longer again!
I am reading articles forvweeks now ending up with volume calculators advising me 33 liter to 57 liters? I am confused
After reading this more specified info, what do you think Karl!
I really appreciate your assistence guys!
pieter van Campenhout im a very poor surfer myself so talk from own experience :) experimented with lots of boards but keep coming back to pretty standard shortboard shapes. Not sure how your waves look like but my local spots tend to be rather fast even when it’s small. Find that very short / wide boards don’t work well unless you have a slower point break or it’s on high tide and rare slow conditions on your beach break. I’m 85kg and 31l seems to be spot on. Less volume and I’ll struggle getting speed on small waves , more volume does not seem to help much catching waves and sometimes even makes it more difficult. My theory is that at lower (or normal) volume you use your upper body pivot to just push the board down the face at the right spot. Too much volume and you are dependent on “gliding” into the wave rather then using your weight to push it down. This is great for longboards that glide due to length but horrible for short boards that you have to also push down the wave just as it breaks. Other issues with to much volume on a shortboard is that you will intuitively try to surf it like a mal, meaning trying trimming and pushing on the overvolumed nose down rather then more easily driving it from the tail.hope this helps!
Thanks, great review for the thew hole Pyzel Quiver
Hi, im 5’9 160, low intermediate surfing a 6’9 fish hybrid. How does this compare to puddle jumper? Both seem great daily boards for EC Florida
Jason wilk Sorry never tried the original PJ. The Gremlin is fast and grovels well. I high recommend it
Looks super fun. Which did you prefer out of the Gremlin and the Hp Puddle Jumper?
Richard Embery Both boards are epic... the Gremlin paddles a little better and gets on rail better. I would say the Gremlin.
Also, the dims for the Gremlin you rode differ between the text displayed within your video (5'4") and the text displayed your on webpage/youtube description (5'7"). Which of these two dims was the Gremlin you rode in this video? I guess the 5'7" was a typo but perhaps not.
Kapukataumahaka Ōwheo Good catch bro.. thanks for looking out. The DIMS on in the review are correct and I changed the ones in the description. The Correct DIMS are 5’4” x 19.25 x 2.31 Liters 26.35. I think the other DIMS were confused with the Phantom. Thanks!
Hi Noel. Thanks for review this board.can i ask you if you prefer gremlin or ultra joe?
Thanks!
luca valenzisi It’s really up to you... Gremlin paddles better and goes faster in small mushy waves. The UltraJoe offers more performance in the pocket. I prefer the UJ more for how I surf and the waves I ride. If I lived on the East Coast I would prefer the Gremlin.
Great job Noel!
Love your show !! thanks for your epic work. Will you ever review the voyager 1 from Pyzel ?
Julia Claisse Not sure... i have another review dropping on a Pyzel but it’s not the Voyager. It’s something new.... can’t talk about it yet.
@@surfnshowreviews7777 I'm sure the you're preparing a review on the new Pyzel's HPSB. Btw voyager 1 is the best board ever :) !
Hi Noel, another great review! Definitely appreciate the attention to detail. I am looking to scoop up a true groveler and the Gremlin looks super fun. Curious your recommendations on volume...5'9, 150 lbs (add a few for a 4/3 wet suit around my local breaks in San Francisco/Santa Cruz), I would say high intermediate to low advanced surfer. My current dailys are pyzel slab 2.0 at 6'0, 31.2 liters and a Rusty Rooster at 5'11 and 32 liters. Curious what you recommend in the Gremlin to make for some easy paddling/wave catching without giving up the benefits of having a shorter board as a groveler? Thanks!
Matthew Bier The Gremlin has low rocker and loaded with foam under the chest/front foot. Keep your liters the same as your daily. It paddles insane.
@@surfnshowreviews7777 Awesome, thanks so much!
Hi Noel! Soo which do you prefer - Gremlin or Astro Pop, and why? Had a Phantom, best board to date. Carvs like no other :) Im looking to add a grovler to my quiver that works for our mushy windswell here in Sweden, but also will work for small beachie days traveling, 1-3f Indo, Portugal. Cheers!
kallegbg81 Astro POP is better. It offers a bit more performance. It seems to pivot a little better compared to the Gremlin. The Gremlin might be a tad faster down the line.
@@surfnshowreviews7777 Thanks Noel, much appriciated! I be sure to check one out. Looking forward to more reviews :)
Can you do a Lost Ripper review? They just came out with that board a few weeks ago. Wondering goes it compares with the Pyzel Phantom
I ordered one…
Hi! Thanks for the amazing review. Pretty excited to get the board! I'm 5'7 and 130 pounds. Intermediate surfer and have a nice 6'10 mid length 47L on which I can ride waves making a few mellow turns but nothing radical yet. I'm looking for a first step into shortboarding, a board with paddle power and speed that makes turns easily for small to 5ft waves (I've surfed a 5'9 lost puddle jumper 37L from my friend and really liked the speed and how easily it turned and reacted). I'm not a strong paddler and sometimes struggle to find stability on a smaller board and therefore thinking of buying the gremlin a little bit bigger than my length: so a 6'0 gremlin with 36L. Would you recommend this size too? Or is buying a shortboard a bit bigger than your length a bad idea? Thanks!
That’s a good size to start your way down.
Nice review thank you :) the FireWire mashup is more comparable to the gremlin or the phantom for you ? I’m looking for a replacement for this board, I really like the shape but not the construction of helium :( (too much on top of water)…
For 1-3’ waves it’s closer to the Gremlin.
Hi Noel, why would you have less thickness in your Gremlin(small wave board) than in your Ghost?
I'm wondering because my Gremlin is 5'6 x 19.25 and it is 2.44 thick same as your Ghost. Wouldn't it be better to have more thickness in a small wave board and less in a board you use in bigger surf? or how will that change your riding?
Hope you find the time to answer my doubts and if not maybe someone else will! Thanks for the show, it's great!
I never think of it like that… thickness is relevant to volume per board and board design. For example…. My HPSB are usually 2 5/16 thick but sometimes a board might have a flat deck and the thickness for that board is 2 1/4. Or if a board has a tapered or fouled rail then it might be 2 3/8 thick. My point here is rarely worry about thickness when comparing my HPSB to my Grovelers and it’s not unusual for my Grovelers to be the same thickness as my HPSB due to them being a lot shorter in length.
@@surfnshowreviews7777 I see... I guess it all comes down to getting the right volume in liters and playing with the DIMS just a bit to get a different feel. The Gremlin I bought used has 29 liters of volume, It seems to go good for me, although out of curiosity I wish it had a liter or 2 less. I appreciate it man! cheers
thanks for great review. Just to clarify your using the JJF techflex in the large size correct? (saw the orange on the fin so assumed you're using larges)
Yes
Hey Noel sick reviews as always! Question for you...JS psycho Nitro or the Gremlin?
Ryan S.H Sorry never tried the Psycho Nitro
Great review and great surfing.
Going from a phantom to a gremlin. Do you think a drop in 2” in length and a 1 liter increase in volume sounds right?
You can increase 1 liter for smaller waves
Hey Noel, @ 10:42 and the next 3-4 waves, is what I'm surfing pretty consistently in south florida and trying to dial in, I'm like the exact same size as machado 5"11 and 140-145lbs, obviously a quad gremlin would be perfect. But it seems that my size for a gremlin would be like 5'2-5'0. Wouldn't that mess me up riding a quad skimboard most of the year then switching to a 5'7 HPSB for our "swell events"?
But then again.. our swell events.. arnt pipeline swell events.. or even trestles swell events, they are like normal days at trestles LOL . I think that just answered my question. If I wanted to just scratch that itch of a HP board on some real pushing faces that we get only a few times a year. A Driver 2.0 or even an Uber Driver would only come out to like 5'5-5'6. Maybe that's not as big of a jump as I think mentally. 5" isn't that radical? Maybe a foot different would mess me up LOL. I gotta get some cheap used ones and try them out and find out first hand.
Zenfire Trading Welcome to my world... the transition is real and it will mess with you a little but no worries... have fun
@@surfnshowreviews7777 Haha I know I bet! When I'm come out to California again I'm going to pay for you to be my surf coach! Yeww!
Hi Noel, I really like your show and I go to your videos and site all the time for very detailed and accurate reviews.
The Gremlin sounds fantastic. I definitely want to check it out, but I saw that you mentioned that the EPS was not as strong as other EPS boards. I saw that Pyzel makes boards in Standard EPS and Pyzel’s Electralite. Do you happen to know if the board that you rode was in Electralite or EPS?
Also, I live in San Diego and I have a foamie for 1-2ft onshore/high tide, etc, so I’m looking for a board that works in the 2ft-4ft on steeper waves (about 80% of the time, the forecast says 2-3ft). You mention that the Phantom is good for 2-6ft steeper waves while the Gremlin is for 1-4ft. Would you recommend the Gremlin or the Phantom for 2-4ft steep waves? Thanks
Brent Rucker My Board was regular EPS with a team light glass job. A stock EPS or Electralite will be stronger compared to mine.
The Gremlin is a true Groveler for 1-4’ and the Phantom is a Daily Driver for 2-7+’ surf. If you are happy groveling on your soft top then maybe go with the Phantom for a little more hold in your turns and performance in the pocket.
Both boards will go good though.
How would you compare the Gremlin to dominator 2.0?
What’s the difference between this and the sampler?
Hi Noel! Would you prefer the gremlin or the El tomo? Ps. Love your show!
I like the Gremlin better in 1-3’ surf and I prefer the El Tomo Fish in 3-6’ surf.
Great surfing as always!! Wondering if any chance of doing a Sharp Eye Disco Cheater, love all the Disco models but not much feedback on this model. Thanks!!
Michael Deaton I love the Disco Cheater.. it was a favorite of mine for 2017. Check out the review when get a chance.
Noel, do you have a Slater Design Cymatic review in the future? Great breakdown on the Gremlin!
David Pham Yes... just got a couple Cymatics. Review dropping soon...
Stoked. Picked up a SKX after your review and it's right on par with everything you said. Love it.
David Pham Yewwww!!! Stoked you found a nugget.
David Pham Yewww! Stoked you found a nugget.
Hey! I've been watching a lot of your reviews recently, and I'm just wondering which board would you recommend the most for airs? (what you've experienced). Because I'm kinda that guy who always goes for those air sections instead of getting those nice turns in lol. So far I've been looking at the Holy Grail, or the Pyzel Stubby Bastard, also the Air 17X looks nice. (Which would you recommend?)
Supreme Patty I think the Air17X would be good for airs. Very responsive and fast...
So, out of all the boards you've ridden you recommend Air17X? I'm surprised you didn't say the Holy Grail (because of the shape of it which looks like it is maximized for speed from my perspective)
Supreme Patty The Air17X is really HP for smaller waves. It reminds of a QS small wave competitive board.
Thanks so much for all the detailed review!
Would really love to see your opinion on Pyzel's AMIGO - any chance?? 🙏
Thanks and keep it up💪
TheProsopopeia Sorry no opinion on the Amigo at this time. I have not tried it yet.
Owned a 6’1” Amigo. Overall good board and the few reviews/feedback you find are positive. Think Pyzel’s description is pretty accurate. It’s basically a short board with a little fuller dimensions. Rails pretty pulled in and rides like a shortboard. Better wave catching ability than most hpsp the same length. Closest thing to it that I’ve ridden would be a T Low. Still different feel, Amigo a little loser but both paddle similarly and same wave range.... stomach to several feet overhead.
Could you do a lost quiver killer review?
hey noel. Im looking at a new board but each review i watch i keep changing my mind. Im a intermediate rider and want something that will make it easier to paddle on to waves and will help me in more responsive turns. Ive been looking at the CI Rocket wide, Gremlin and the Lost Psycho killer. I cant afford all 3 and want something thats gonna do me for most days. mostly surf 1 to 5 ft surf. Any help will be appreciated
Hi Noel,
For East Coast waves would you prefer the Gremlin or Phantom? I already have a 6'4 Sampler and I am looking for a board that will progress my turns. Thank you
Jman11555 Gremlin is excellent for 1-4’ waves. Phantom is 3-7’ surf. EC surfing I would be on a short Gremlin
Noel Completely off topic but I have a fin question. I’ve got a SciFi which I use Blackstix on. I’m getting a Cymatic, have you surfed this board. Any fin tips would be welcomed. Leaning towards A control series fin but would like to save money
Maurice Cureton I have been riding the Cymatic for the last week or so. Really fun board and choosing fins for it is really fun too. So far I like the Cymatic as a Quad.... I have tested it with really upright fins (HS1)and the board is super loose and responsive. I also tested it with a medium Raked fin like JJF Large side fins and upright Quad rears (HS1) and it tightened the board up a bit and goes mental. When the waves get a little bigger 4-8’ I will try the AM2 Quad for maximum hold and control. So it’s pretty simple... more raked fins equal more speed, control, (tighter board) and bigger carves. All this too say it’s really up to you and what your looking for. The Cymatic is legit in my book and fin testing in this board is a blast.... you can really feel the difference in each fin set up.
Surf n Show Reviews thanks a million. This last year my surfing has really surged and I think it’s been fin selection. Thanks again. Can’t wait to see the board review on the cymatic. I kept waiting for one before I purchased then I just decided to pull the teigger
Also wondering if anyone has tried 2 + 1 fin set up in the gremlin????
Hey Noel, I was wondering your thoughts on the best model for a small wave contest board. I usually ride CI boards but I’m all ears to whatever you suggest. Thanks, and keep up the great vids!
Matt J Small wave contest boards... I would make a Fever in my Groveler DIMS 5’7” x 19 x 2 5/16. Or I would do a Pyzel Phantom, or Lost Driver.
Sorry to butt in but you recommended the Js mosta Box to me and I got it in Epoxy/ their hyfi tech and I definitely think it would be great for contests. I haven't ridden it in contest yet but i've noticed how much better i've been surfing recently (in all wave types) so I would definitely recommend it. By the way thanks so much for the recommendation Noel!
Matt Levy The Monsta Box in HYFY is epic... stoked it’s working out for you. Thanks for posting your experience with that board and construction. Now go win some heats bro...
Thanks for the feedback guys! I’m kinda leaning towards a Fever as CI is easier to come by where I live but I’ll definitely check the other boards out as well
Matt J The Fever is epic!!! One of my favorite HPSB.
Hey Noel...what's the main points of difference between the gremlin and the puddle jumper hp as a small wave board with a shortboard feel (be my DD in the uk were conditions are often subpar). Someone suggested the mashup, though I'm leaning towards one of these two
The PJHP I only liked it as a Quad… it’s fast and offers excellent performance compared to the Gremlin . The Gremlin shreds as a Thruster, Quad, and Twin + Trailer and a true Groveler. I would go Gremlin over the PJHP and Mashup
@@surfnshowreviews7777 cheers noel, that was my gut feeling.
Kinda looks like the Chilli Cherry Peppa (or is it just me 🙈) Great surfing+review again 🤙🏻
Huw Evans Not too familiar with the Chilli boards at this time.
Just you 😂 Think Cherry Peppa is wider and thinner and less performance
Awesome review and rad surfing Noel! What length would you recommend on the Gremlin (or Phantom)for a low intermediate surfer (6’0 tall) that is transitioning from a 7’10” funboard.?
Typically surf at Malibu 2nd point... gracias!
Mediodiablo Size would not be my focus... I would be concerned most about liters due to what you have been riding. I’m thinking 6’4” on the Phantom and maybe 6’0”-6’2” on the Gremlin.
@@surfnshowreviews7777 Great, thanks for the advice! Stoked to start adding to my quiver. Keep those vids coming, you got the best surf reviews channel!
Great review, thankyou! I am a lower intermediate, 82kg and 5 ft 11. I currently ride 6 ft 8 fish (46 litres) and want to buy a board which I can turn and maneuvre more responsively and duck dive! I was thinking 6ft or 6ft 2 Gremlin, I live in France so get a lot of 2ft - 5ft beach break waves. What size do you think I should go for?
I highly recommend 33-35L.
Love these videos, keep up the awesome work yewww! If you had to choose a board for average conditions on the east coast of florida, what would you choose? (typically 2-4ft not as punchy as california)
Meloosh Barrel CI Rocket Wide, Gremlin, Phantom, Holy Grail, PJHP...
Do you think that this is a good transition board? I’m currently riding a 7’4 at 50 liters. My goal is to go shorter. I’m 150lbs my height is 5’7. I’m looking at 5’8 gremlin at 31 liters. Maybe too aggressive for a 1st short board? Thanks in advance
I suggest dropping your volume to 40L and maybe go roughly 6’4” or so. You don’t want to go to short in length too fast.
Hi Noel, thanks for all good reviews. can u share your opinion, for small wave perfomance board knee till chest high wave. which one do you prefer. gremlin or puddle jumper hp?
Gremlin… it’s faster
@@surfnshowreviews7777 thank you Noel.. U are the best!
great review bud, how would you compare this with Lost Puddle Jumper HP? which one is best small wave quiver 2-3ft size of sets of 🌊
Killa Swish Both boards are epic and you will be stoked on both. I like the Gremlin a little better.... more speed and paddles a little better too. I think the Gremlin goes rail to rail a little better too. Both boards grovel very well.
Surf n Show Reviews, thank now I'm going to cancel my order of PJ HP I'm switching to grimlim, this stick would rock the cloud 9 soon...
hi noel, im thinking of grabbing a gremlin as it would suit the waves i ride and they look sick,
im 5'9 , 77kg and an intermediate surfer, looking to improve on my turns/manoeuvres.
i currently riding a board which is 30lts but i think i need something more buoyant.
what dims would you recommend for me,
cheers!!
Jack O'Connor How about the Stock 5’8”?
Noel, I gotta ask you as a pro and all-mighty board wizard. I've spoken to so many people about this and I keep getting different answers.
I currently ride a Chilli Rarebird (5'8", 19 1/2", 2 3/8", 27.70 liters). I either ride the Chilli or my longboard. While I love the Chilli I feel like I just need something that makes my life in the line-up easier. I want to catch waves even easier, paddle faster and work on perfecting my turns (by perfecting I mean actually executing nice proper bottom turns, cut-backs etc. in drawn out lines).
I was thinking the Chilli just doesn't have enough volume and have been looking at everything from the Pyzel Gremlin, #4 Channel Island, Slater Designs SciFi, Mayhem Uber Driver etc. etc. etc.
Any tips? Ideas? Any board you would go for? Any volume you'd recommend?
Melanie Balke How much do you weigh and how tall are you?
What size waves for this board?
@@surfnshowreviews7777
119 at 5'3ish
Pretty much small Los Angeles mush. 2-3ft mostly. 3-4 sometimes. Rare 5-6
Thanks for answering btw :)
Melanie Balke You liters should be roughly 20-21 for upper intermediate, if that seems low in volume for you go up a liter or two. The Gremlin will go mental in the South Bay!!!
i’m 6’ 155 lbs and i’m kinda new to surfing. i’ve been riding a 5’10 board with 37 liters and it’s really easy for me to catch waves with. i’m thinking about getting a gremlin but not sure what size to get i was thinking 5’8” would that be too small?
Nolan Miner I suggest the 5’10 and slowly start working your way down.
Hi Noel. Does it surf very similar to the JS nitro?
Karl Jakobsson This Gremlin paddles better and seems to have a little more tail rocker. The Gremlin is faster and has little more performance in the pocket.
In AWE of your backhand turns Noel.. how did you get it to be so smooth and fluid??
Rob Lewis Cheers... lots of practice and studying surfing. Hopefully I can help our community get better in our Surf Better Tutorials we hope to launch the end of Spring. If this virus crap ends soon.
@@surfnshowreviews7777 Ah brilliant that's fantastic news.. love watching your videos for the surfing and the knowledge you share... will be amazing to get your insights on popping up, paddling, carving etc.. fingers crossed!!
hey noel great review as always. how would you compare the gremlin to the pod mod? i was looking into the pod mod but have opportunity to pick up a gremlin at a great price🤙
Matt Cotton Both boards are epic!! Get the Gremlin for a good price... that’s what I would do
@@surfnshowreviews7777 thanks noel. best reviews on youtube brotha.past 3 board purchases have been due to your reviews.thanks for all the hard work
Matt Cotton Yewww! Thanks for posting. What 3 boards did you get? Just curious
@@surfnshowreviews7777 ci fever. ci og flyer and tommorow the gremlin. fever and og flyer are epic!!! fever as my step up og flyer for those in between days and now the gremlin for my groveler.
Just went and bought one, thanks for making the decision easier!
Ps: Bought a Phantom after studying the footage as well ;)
Ghost next
Waxfoot Epic Quiver
Love this review. Ripping as always. I have a question. I went with a swallow tail version of this board a little higher volume than my Rocket wide squash. Tried it yesterday in some fairly easy 2-4 point surf. I couldn’t get it to go or it would just kinda be all over the place. I tried a jjf medium front with f8 rear for a quad set up. Any feedback would be great. ✌🏼
If you want more traction then use a large base Raked side fins. I highly recommend my 5 fin set. Check them out here…
surfnshow.com/products/momentum-series-5-fin-set
@@surfnshowreviews7777 do you sell a raked fin with pivot quad rears? I’m seeing neutral fins with a pivot rear.
@@waikikiwilly13 You can just buy my Quad Rears and then buy the Raked fins
@@surfnshowreviews7777 thank Noal!
@@waikikiwilly13 How'd it work out? Did you try large raked fins in combination with quad rears? Have you ridden the board much?
So this or the puddle jumper hp? I’m looking for a board that turns well and keeps speed up in small waves. Not super worried about paddle power but that’s a great plus because you have said both paddle well.
Tosh Jaoudi True they both paddle good. I think the Gremlin is a little easier to surf and maybe a tad faster. I also think the Gremlin gets on rail easier.
when you mean easier to get on rail, how does that translate when you surf it ?
Mathieu Revel When the board is going down the line and it is flat on the water and I want to do a turn the board turns over on its rail easy.
ok ! pretty important point !
I d love you to review a board from a guy like Gary Mcneil ! that would be awsome to see you talking about a shaper like that VS big brands and see how you feel
Very good reviews! i'm intermediate level, still improving in feeling the board right under my feet while riding and start to do some turns... i am 5'8 150 pounds, i bought a 5'11 ghost in Bali and it feels very good to me for paddling and riding those waves! But now i came back to Europe and the waves around here are definitely smaller and mellow most of the time. would you suggest me to look for a board like the gremlin or phantom because is gonna help me improving much more for sure, or just continue to ride the ghost anyway! cheers
Niccolò De Vido The Phantom and Gremlin will go much better in smaller waves. I would get the Gremlin for waves in the 1-4’ range.... if it gets bigger than that often then go Phantom.
Niccolò De Vido Ciao Niccolò, I bought the Ghost and Phantom, lets buy the Gremlin too and lets go to a surf trip soon
Hey bro, I have a question for you. I’m trying to rebuild my quiver and i’m having a tough time deciding on a few boards. For waves 1-4 feet I like the Pyzel Gremlin and the Chili Miami Spice, for waves in the 3 to 6 range I like the Neck beard 2 and the Rusty Blade. Any chance you may have tried the Chili and rusty board before? If i had the money I would get all 4. lol. Thanks man! 🤙
No sorry
@@surfnshowreviews7777 No problem, thanks for responding. 🤙
Great review..do you think u will do the js bkack box2 soon?
Erezdekel Erez123123 I have been asking the folks at JS for it for months now. You and a bunch of others have requested that board for review but I have heard nothing from JS. Sorry... hang in there.
Surf n Show Reviews thanks man.best show
Noel, your surfing looks top notch on that board!!! I'm looking at replacing my current groveler (5'6 firewire potatonator) and this Gremlin looks perfect! My go to SB for anything chest high and above is a 5'9 Hayden Love Buzz at 27.6 L, which I really like. I'm looking at the 5'6" Gremlin, but thinking it might be too much volume at 29.5 L....What do you think? Maybe custom dim and reduce thickness a bit... I'm 5'11 and 175 lbs....surf mostly avg. waves in Encinitas. Thanks!
Kirk Reis I agree the 29.5 might be a bit much... I would customize one and maybe go around 28.5. One whole liter will float roughly 10 more pounds. So if I weighed 170lbs then I would go to roughly 27 liters. Yo could even go 28 liters and be good... the foam under the chest is there on this board and it will paddle great.
Thanks Noel!!! I always enjoy your insightful reviews and awesome surfing! Keep'em coming!
Hey Noel, I'm about to place a custom order for a 5'6 Gremlin and I'm trying to decide between the stingered EPS or Pyzel's Electralite stringerless construction. My understanding is they both have the same standard glassing schedule, but the Electralite has carbon strips and one layer of "S" cloth to make up for the lack of stringer. Out of curosity, why did you go with the wood stringer EPS construction on your board? Which, would you recommend? I'm a bit nervous when dropping a lot of $$$$ when I haven't heard of any Electralite experiences.
Kirk Reis Good questions. I wanted to try the Electralite but they made me the Stringered EPS instead. I think the Electralite will go better and it will more durable.
Hello, what board is catching the wave easyer, Gremlin or Phanton?
aviv meir Gremlin... remember the Gremlin is a Groveler for 1-4’ waves. The Phantom is a Daily Driver for 3-7’ surf.
If you custom ordered the gremlin, narrowed it a bit and ordered a round tail, how far into the head high realm could you push this board? I'm thinking about ordering this or the Phantom at 5'9 19 3/4 = -, 2.5 + - with a round tail for hold and turning. I'm 5' 9" 175. The board would be my all arounder for 2- 8ish surf. 32L feels best to paddle with is important to me. I ride point breaks in Santa Barbara mostly... intermediate surfer 40 years young and fit. Any input besides telling me I'm a KOOK would be sweet... and i know I'm a Kook but I still have fun.
Wesley Turner The Round Tail will hood a bit better but the Gremlin does not have bunch of rocker so it will struggle in steep hollow waves. It should go pretty good though on your point breaks. Cheers
@@surfnshowreviews7777 So for a more versatile pick you would pick the Phantom? You look like you had a blast on the Cymatic to! I'm considering either a custom Roberts Dream Catcher, the Phantom or the stock 5'7 Cymatic. The choice is hard!
Wesley Turner The Cymatic and Phantom both fit the Daily Driver 3-7’ wave range. Neither of them will Grovel well though. If you want a good Groveler 1-4’ surf then I recommend the Gremlin or Rocket Wide.
Surf n Show Reviews What’s your favorite between the Phantom and the Cymatic for a daily driver?
Wesley Turner That’s a tough one... both boards are sick and surf completely different. I like the Cymatic better for vertical pocket surfing because it’s short and it fits so good in the hook. I like the Phantom for big carves and rail turns. Phantom still does good turns in the pocket too. Both boards have a lot of speed.... the Phantom is a little more user friendly. That’s all I got on these two... I would probably have them both in my quiver!!!