That's probably why we atheists look at all these ultra religious people and notice that it's their innate sense of humanity that is hijacked and missing and becomes conditional.
There is only one reality. The problem is filling in the blanks where we don't have direct knowledge, and it is rare to find someone who doesn't. People who are awarded nonsense labels like "scientist" do it all the time and call it theory. Just like their ecclesiastical counterparts they don't like people who don't believe their theories.
@dharmaqueen7877 Yeah, but at least scientists do it in the service of seeking the truth, as in, the scientific method is just simply a TOOL to help humans understand more - and when more is understood then there is no problem with agreement about the new knowledge by all. Whereas religion is in the service of... 🤷♀️ manipulation, control, indoctrination tax-free $$$ and plugging in the holes science just hasn't dealt with yet with mythology and a curtain around the Wizards who still hide the lies they've peddled for millennia.
His story about his dog is very relatable. As a rat lover, I have totally seen the God complex in rats. They watch you and will do all sort of things to get you give them treats and attention. They develop repetitive behaviors shortly before feeding times that I describe as rattie prayers. Rats naturally, very social and live in groups, and are very easy to train. Once one in a group learns something many of the others will pick up the behavior. A dog looks up to you, a cat looks down on you, and a rat treats you like a God.
2:30:30 “the truth is incredibly threatening to a culture that is built on lies” WOW! I could listen to Dr Darrel Ray talk for hours on end! I loved everything about this interview… he is a wealth of knowledge. I learned so much from this! Thank you, Tim!!!
At now 71 yo I can attest my mother did this to her 3 children she thought it was the right thing; I broke out at 50 yo after much critical thinking. My sister didn’t and indoctrinated her son who now wastes his life as a youth minister bless him. It is traumatic for a child. I was so afraid I would go to hell. So wrong!
@@davidrexford586 I don't see having a spiritual life as the same as believing in the god of the Bible, or indeed any god in particular. The way I get it, all gods are meant to be icons that we can use to recognize the divine in our lives-- the divine that creates those miraculous experiences. Because I have had them to (got at least some better from a disease I was supposed to get worse and die from) and they had nothing to do with Yahweh or Jesus or Allah. It was a more direct connection.
In defense of HOMESCHOOLING: The practice itself isn't inherently harmful. In fact, if you're referencing human history and natural history to better understand best practices as you do, you might notice that compulsory institutional schooling is a pretty new experiment. It is associated with a lot of bullying by some peers, teachers, and administrators, often entrenched poor pedagogy, and poor educational outcomes except in areas where parents are well-educated and so help their children learn. I am an atheist homeschooling parent. I know many homeschooling families in my community -- both religious and irreligious -- who focus on raising healthy, happy, well-informed, responsible citizens of the real world.
One of the things I've had a difficult time dealing with since stopping believing in god, Christianity, or religions in general, is anger with myself and my mother. On one hand I realize it's not either my or my mother's fault. She was indoctrinated and looking for answers and had needs. I wanted to please her and didn't know any better. But, all the while my father was angry about my beliefs and it made our relationship very strained. He'd frequently point out it was indoctrination and brainwashing. My parents divorced when I was young. My mother primarily raised me. I was 'born again' when I was 10. His agnostic-atheism and anger issues - along with verbal and emotional abuse - made it easy to discount what he had to say. But he was right all along. The irony that nearly forty years later I became an agnostic-atheist, but he's got dementia, so bringing it up is pointless. Thankfully we were able to get to a better place in our relationship prior to him showing signs of dementia. Meanwhile I've barely talked to my mother in the past year or so precisely because she's still a fundamentalist Christian. And I was pretty close with her for a very long time.
My story is different except for the indoctrination part which my aunt did and got me to go to one of them holy roller churches. A lot of hellfire and brimstone, being left behind at the Rapture and warnings of the unpardonable sin. The last one that cause me the most tramma thinking I did it. It took a long time for me to get over that. I said goodbye to Christianity a long time ago and taken up art which is very therapeutic.
@@bonlevina5621 Not my problem. So, what, I'm supposed to try harder to believe again to please her so she won't be sad?! People get disappointed in others, even family, all the time. To base our actions always on not trying to disappoint or make others sad is wrong.
I haven't had time to actually watch this video because of its length, so I probably won't get to it until this weekend. However, just from the title alone, I can totally affirm that. I was born Catholic, so I literally was indoctrinated from birth. Between that and eventually converting from Catholicism to evangelicalism, I can say that from the earliest conscious moments of my life, being afraid of hell, and a vengeful schizophrenic God traumatized me and created dysfunctions in me that still persist to this day as I approach 50 years old.
I've met Dr. Ray personally; what a joy to hear him on one of my favorite channels helping to break the shackles of the religious mind-virus. I find it fascinating that tribal cultures experience their ancestors the same way Christians think they feel Jesus.
Darrel's cool. I'm listening to this in the middle of the night. I admit that the major religions have used sex, and fear to control mankind. In particular Jesus is a template for a perfect man, but like the Buddha he doesn't enter the human circle. In other words, aside from alternative stories he never has sexual relations. This platonic ideal is against nature and most can't follow it. Fortunately, the philosophical hierarchy and family trauma was more of the reason I avoided sex than the horrors of bad religious leaders. Very good interview Harmonic Atheist. I wish you happiness in the future for you and the kids mate.
I abstained from sex until marriage as I believed I would go to Hell. In fact, a lot of things I did or didn't do as a Christian was motivated by the fear of Hell.
Great interview🎉. My heartfelt Thank you Tim for the work you invest. One can feel your energy and commitment from afar. I am still a Catholic. But its always fun and moreover very insightful watching you🎉😂🎉 Keep it up....🌻
Tim’s analogy of the Christ fantasy vs. porn fantasy was spot on. These “Christian” fundies spend their whole lives ignoring the person right in front of them for the Christ fantasy. It is sad because you realize they are ignoring real life for a pipe dream. So, Dr Ray talking about the Catholic woman reminded me of myself. I was raised mainstream Catholic with a Jewish father. I suffered no religious trauma and am considered a very liberal, open minded person but after watching this episode I see how my Catholic upbringing has impacted me. So much of what he said rings true
37:15 "I'm not Struggling with my sexuality, I'm Experiencing my sexuality!" Wow. The way that religion made us despise and fear our own natural humanity is so unfair. Getting free from religion and finally embracing our humanity and enjoying our bodies is so exciting.😊🥰
I am a Christian Minister, who also teaches Sunday School watching this. Tim, you have me interested every single time I watch your videos such as this, it is interesting. Yet, it is hard to grasp the idea that Christianity is mythology, and that is it and nothing more (as far as Christianity).
I definitely get it! MythVision is great place to start with for now, and I'll be publishing several large projects, hopefully starting this year, where I talk about the mythology behind the Bible. I hope I can be of help as that eventually comes to fruition. Best wishes on your journey and research.
@@HarmonicAtheist sounds good 👍 By the way, I have been following Mythvision around the same time I started following your channel. Both of you have interesting topics concerning our belief systems.
@@coreybarnett7785it’s great that you’re open minded on what they have to say. What’s your opinion on the psychological trauma Christianity can put on someone?
@@KeanuReevesIsMyJesus I believe it can traumatizing if one teaches Christianity from a fear aspect. I know my Pastor encourages us to teach with love and compassion vs manipulation and control. Big difference.
@@coreybarnett7785 do you believe hell is a form of eternal conscious torment? Do you believe even taught in a loving way, that idea can be traumatizing?
Great interview!! I like his explanation of “shortcuts” we use. It always irritated me when people say” I’m praying for you.” I always though it was a cop out.
Got a 4 on the test thought it was no big deal and saw just a 4/10 has some crazy side effects for health, both physical and mental. And I gotta say, it’s decently accurate for how general it is.
Mary had a little lamb she also had some trauma, and everywhere that Mary went, the trauma followed, too. And though the lamb was white as snow, it stuck to her like glue, and by and by, they both got lost, and neither had a clue.
100 percent.. you feel ashamed and guilty for being human... the homophobia in the Bible really made me kiss religion good bye. Mythological dogma needs to go!!
I had an idea and want to let you know before I forget (I'm multitasking right now). I know it's more work, but have you thought about making shorter clips of each interview? They're very long but maybe you could post bits and pieces of them, 5-10 minutes or so, just some of your favourite parts of the interview, a specific question and answer, etc.
I agree! You could also post the complete long-form interviews in parallel. It's just that they can be so overwhelming that often I don't even start. I greatly appreciate the depth and wholeness of a really long interview like this or like those on Mormon Stories Podcast, but even so my day is more suited to the shorter bits.
In second grade, I drew a picture of a hand, holding a very slender thread over raging flames. At the end of the thread was a spider. The hand belonged to God and I was the spider. In my mind, all it took was one false move, and Jehovah would drop me into that fire - FOR ALL ETERNITY! 60 years later, I still find it challenging to completely divest myself of that toxic belief system.
@@bentesch6739 Actually I had never heard of that essay until you mentioned it in your comments. Upon a relatively quick scanning of the text, though, it seems to align fairly accurately with the fire-and - brimstone dogmas and indoctrinations that I was brought up with.
Oh my goodness, I can’t listen to Dr.Ray all day!! He reminds me of that cool uncle who you can talk to about anything. He hit on so many good points during this interview. The church has people living in virtual reality and doesn’t tap into the real world. Dam, this was so so good. I have to get some of his books now, well done Tim!!
Smart guy. Same with me. My parents certainly were fundaMENTAList and still are. But as soon as I started to read the Bible for myself I knew stories like the creation and the flood had to be made up. Then I did science at school and university and confirmed it. But I was a liberal believer for many decades. I’m 57 and only now looking back do I realise I never believed any of it except for some amazing encounters with the transcendent that are still precious to me. But I wouldn’t be so presumptuous to label the experience as God. And I’ve just got divorced from a religious wife too. I think marriage is part of religion’s way to mess you up.
I was dunked at 8 in a baptist missionary in Japan (dad was in the Air Force) and was kicked out the following Easter when I started crying uncontrollably because Jesus failed, in dying for our sins, even at 8 I could recognize that people were sinning constantly. Since then I’ve realized that when it comes to any religion I have no faith.
I never got married, not even engaged.... I think our culture over-values long term monogamous relationships. It's great if that is what folks want... but plz, let's stop shaming when it doesn't last forever! My friends and family got married, then they got divorced. Relationships don't Fail.... they just End. And folks can move on to another chapter of life.🥰
The first time i showed up to a mass they asked me if i was devoted to be catholic. I said im not sure, just wanted to be in the group class since my cousin took me. I was sat alone, in a chair, in the middle of the hall for two hours. I was 6 years old. Never again.
At the age of 15, in 1968, while on spring break from high school, I spent it reading In the Shadow of Man (yes, I was a very introverted nerd). It was one of the biggest literary influences in my life.
My ex has a lot of guilt around sex. A month or so before we broke up, he decided that he would be abstinent and practiced his catholic faith more. We were each other's first, so neither of us knew much. But I way more comfortable with sex than he was; he would never masturbate and usually the only time I orgasmed was when I masturbated alone. I had some medical problems that resulted in penetration not being pleasurable and sometimes painful. And my ex would get frustrated when I didn't want sex. His guilt about sex somewhat rubbed off on me, but I could never be so ashamed to abstain completely like him. I realized that our beliefs (not just about sex) weren't compatible so I had to break up with him after 2 years. I loved him but I was not happy.
Wonderful episode! I definitely feel that I, and many of the people I grew up with, were traumatized by religion. I was homeschooled like you, Tim. Young earth creationist parents, and a pastor for a father.
Celibacy is the biggest perversion? My inner asexual strongly disagrees. By the way I hoped the talk would be focused primarily on childhood indoctrination and not on sex.
I agree…found myself thinking about Brave New World’s chapter 3 with the children playing sexual games in the bushes. Aldous Huxley was not a Christian, so the indoctrination charge with coming from a Christian cannot be laid at his door. It would not be a pleasant sight to have a child humping an adults or anyone else’s legs like dog. Being focused on sex early has repercussions. There are non-Christian pedophiles who think children want their attention. I think our focus needs to be on protecting children’s innocence. A Randy adult has made their choice…have a voice to use such as I am hearing in this interview. Children don’t have that choice.
I must say, this is what I thought about too, when I heard that statement about celibacy! I immediately thought, "What about people who are asexual?" It seemed extremely judgemental to say that without qualification regarding the range of natural human sexual expression. Not everyone, religious or not, have the same levels of sexual desire. I thought the old adage of, "as long as both people in a couple agree about the frequency of sexual intimacy, then there's no problem" still applies? I'd love to know the Dr's views on this topic and whether it was just an oversight.
I have masturbated for as long as I can remember. My earliest memories are sexual in nature. There has never been a time in my life that I didn’t have sexual urges. Even as a very young, preteen boy. I was always acutely aware of women and their bodies. I have always known that I could never be monogamous. I have the perfect partner who also can’t be monogamous. She is so amazing and I am the happiest I have ever been. If you have not heard of the word compersion, check it out. Great job, you two!
I wonder what Dr Ray thinks about no fap? There’s supposed to be all this research that chronic masturbation can deplete the dopamine levels in the brain and can be unhealthy. There’s a woman named Dr Trish Lee who is really into not looking at porn and masturbating. Of course she’s probably racking in the revenue from her movement. Yet what I’m interested in is Dr Rays views on the dopamine levels in the brain being deleted from masturbation
Chronic masturbation and masturbation are really two different things. Chronic sex with a partner (10 times a day for two months straight?) would equal the same outcome without masturbating a single time. Low dopamine isn't a sin and it won't kill you. If someone has an addiction they need to address it. But addiction is addiction. And sex is a primal biological drive. We're sex machines.
Why does it have to be a dichotomy between too much masturbation and none at all? Surely if one can masturbate without fear or guilt, then it will happen organically, maybe two, three times a week, maybe more , maybe not at all. Religious people are so hung up. It's your body, do with it what you wish.
Religion is where I developed a fear of death. In my family; hell and demonic torture were common threats of punishment used by adults anytime we annoyed or offended them. That's cruel.
Interesting guest. What happened to discerning the difference between pornography and erotica? I personally think pornography should be illegal but not erotica. There are certainly grey areas but the worst would be eliminated or at least harder to find and hopefully out of reach of children. I am not Christian nor was i raised that way. It is men, according to research that want sexual novelty. Think of gay men vs gay women. Tim, I don't think this man is a good role model. He makes some accurate points but some of what he says is not correct as he says it. There are some animals that humans have NEVER seen mating. Chimps and bonobos have lost territory and are watched all the time by researchers. Some of them never have any kind of privacy. Some human cultures regularly once sacrificed their own people and slavery was all too common. I think perhaps that is our nature, why have we begun repressing this. We should rediscover this about ourselves. Personally i feel that what goes on between consenting adults is their business. But what I admire is a couple that have been together for a long time and are still happy.
There was not time to dive into all aspects of this conversation, but I'd agree with some of what you wrote. There are definitely more angles to see this from, more nuances, and more viewpoints to consider. I'd like to think of it as a starting point. I'll be having this topic come back up on the channel before long.
Someone really needs to explain asexuality to this guy. Also if you are in a marriage and you and your partner and perfectly happy with sex once a month or less, that is ALSO perfectly normal and okay.
Big difference for me. I believed in heaven for a long time after I stopped believing in hell because I believed in a God of love and hell just didn’t seem consistent with that
A saying attribued to the Jesuits is "give me the child until he is 7 and I'll give you the man". I was programmed in the christian schools, constant indoctrination. I rebelled going into 10th grade. I knew things were wrong but had no idea how to express it. Mom and Dad decided they better listen as I refused to return after day one of 10th grade. I won't go hunting any of those people if they were still around, but I wouldn't lift a finger to help or save them either. Baptist, then church if god denominations. Youtth groups, music. CoG wasn't as traumatic. My prvt baptist school informed me that my CoG were wrong and would be going to hell, and I would be joining them. All a phuqing lie. Mommy was full of fear of everything and transmitted it into her sons. Dad was too casual about keeping things level because he too had believed his whole life it was all real. I don't hate them. They had been programmed too. I was resentful that they never questioned things the way they did everything else. Luckily we weren't too far "the club" so we eventually outgrew going at all.
If people, my kids or my nieces and nephew, want to be Christian, without the threat of eternal punishment, I’m ok with it. My kids don’t believe, and I’m grateful that we share similar values of civil rights and compassion towards others, without the warped perspective of the Bible. My nephew is a youth pastor but he is super cool and nonjudgmental so I’m fine with how he practices his faith. Not that he would change, but just to say that I’m ok with liberal, “humanist” theism. Or should I say Christian’s who actually act like Christ, which is unfortunately rare.
You might want to look into what Christ actually says and supports outside of the feel good cherry picking so common with Christians. Christians who act like Christ would be supporting slavery, superstition, and cult ideology.
Sometimes in relationships, possessiveness and jealousy creeps in. Relationships do carry these types of reactions. Do not know quite if that is just a cultural phenomenon or a tribal/pheromonal response?? Should attachments be seen as a normal survival and tribal response?
Immunize children with science fiction. My mother sent me to a Catholic elementary school. But I stumbled across science fiction in 4th grade. My mother called it "something crazy". I ignored her. I decided that I was an agnostic in 7th grade. Unfortunately people think *Star Wars* is science fiction these days. *Omnilingual* by H Beam Piper *Deathworld* by Harry Harrison *The Mote in God's Eye* by Niven and Pournelle Raise the quality of kids reading material. Aren't kids the future? Science Fiction is future oriented not Shakespeare.
Indoctrination is just teaching and is not limited to "religion". Teaching a child anything they are incapable of knowing by experience (creationism, evolution, resurrection, space travel etc...) is indoctrination.
TL,DR: Psychology / psychiatry are nothing but one more religion to topple. They don't work for refractory conditions and often do far more harm than good. Yes, I know this isn't a popular opinion, but neither is (was?) atheism. I was ahead of the curve on atheism. Perhaps I'm ahead of the curve on psychiatry. Read my full post for why I am questioning. Perhaps it's time to look at the bigger picture: society. Thank you. *********************** I've been "getting therapy" for ~40 years. Every therapist I've had has either been ineffective or downright harmful. The therapist I had longest had a somewhat inappropriate relationship with me and then dumped me. I needed a therapist to get over that therapist. She abandoned me the same fortnight my closest family member and best friend died. I needed another therapist to get over that abandonment. Last June, the "best therapist I ever had" fed me to the machine running the War on Pain Patients. I'm still reeling from those experiences. One definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. With that in mine, I've started to question psychology and psychiatry the same way I did religion. There's no question the "medications" I took did more harm than good. I entered the psychiatric healthcare system as a skinny person with severe depression. Psychiatry and psychology turned me into a morbidly obese zombie with severe depression. Ten years ago, I started slowly coming off medications and I'm still not finished. It is super dangerous. I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT. Why? It's just as dangerous to come off the drugs as it is to take them in the first place. No one would help me come off psych medications because: KA-CHING!!!! Still, every time I came off a psych drug, I got better both mentally and physically. I dropped weight without trying. 100 pounds went down some drain or another. AGAIN: It's as dangerous to come off the drugs as it is to take them in the first place. It's amazing I'm still here. I plan to come off even more meds. It very well may kill me, but staying on them will do that, too. "Talk therapy" also did more harm than good. I wasted all that time with ineffectual and/or harmful therapists when I could have been learning how to develop healthy relationships with actual people. I now view therapists as "emotional prostitutes" who take your money and pretend to be your friend as long as it's comfortable for them / they get their money. They don't know any more than I do about the reasons for my depression and anxiety. Their religious construct makes them think they do, but they don't. Think I'm wrong? It's ALL about the money. I'm sure many (if not most) therapists enter the field with the goal of helping people, but the system won't let them actually do it. Even therapists who recognize Religious Trauma Syndrome are ineffective or harmful. I spent time, money and energy I couldn't afford to go to a retreat for RTS. I was so exhausted due to my chronic illnesses, I had to sleep through much of the retreat. The psychologist accused me of not really wanting to get better. No, I was suffering from multiple chronic illnesses / invisible disabilities. You'd think a psychologist would understand chronic illnesses + stressful traveling = marathon sleeping. But no! During the rest of the retreat, I noticed that everything was about her. She doesn't seem to truly understand depression or what it does to a person. She's much more concerned with gaining status in her field. It reminded me SO MUCH of the way ministers treat members of their congregation. My illnesses and feelings were completely ignored. Everything had to go to the glory of the psychologist and the good DSM IV. For me, the retreat was a turning point. I considered the time, energy and money I spent on that retreat a bit of a "last resort" and all it did was waste my resources and make me feel I'd exhausted every avenue. If the person who coined the term "Religious Trauma Syndrome" could be so uncaring and obtuse, that (in conjunction with my other experiences) began to make me question. After this experience, I had no choice but to walk a different path. Only very recently have I come to suspect that most of psychiatry / psychology is bunk. As I did with religion, I blamed myself over and over and over. I'm done blaming myself. I put in the work. I tried. Psychiatry failed me, not the other way around. Without the help of psychiatrists / psychologists, I came off their addictive, poisonous chemicals, lost weight, got healthier and prolonged my life. Psychology is a "soft" science. The precepts are unfalsifiable and manmade. What else is unfalsifiable and manmade? Hmmmm...let me think. Why are we all here right now? Is it possible, nay probable, that psychology is just one more religion to topple? Yes, it has some truths. All religions have truths. That's how they entrap you. ************* So, what is the true cause of the mental illness epidemic? Since I believe my opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, I'll throw my hat into the ring, too. Mental illness is caused by societal ills. Psychology is making the same mistake that other religions and Western medicine do. They treat the symptoms, not the cause. In some cases, such as a bacterial infection, treating the "individual cells" works, but had the "society" (person) been healthier, perhaps the infection would never have taken hold in the first place. Psychology and other religions try to treat individuals without looking at the big picture. Those running our society will not get behind sweeping changes that would make us healthier because: KA-CHING!!! I know nothing about Jiddu Krishnamurti except for one quote, but I happen to agree with it: "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Every single one of my psychiatrists / psychologists wanted me to be well adjusted to this profoundly sick society. No thanks. I don't want to be well adjusted to extreme individualism, worshiping the almighty dollar, making billionaires richer, killing the environment, etc. I'm being forced to adjust, and it makes me miserable. I'm walking my own path. I'm ditching the "medications" that made me so ill, losing weight, getting out into nature, taking walks. The more I stay away from psychiatric system, the healthier I get. Maybe there's still enough time to reverse the damage they've done.
Was/am a JW. Cleaned. Put Jehovah first. On the “ark” that takes us into a paradise after the great tribulation and Armageddon. That was the “reality”. Do you have any idea of how difficult life can be? If the script was written to understand your needs, talents, and abilities- allow that to become the map to figure out how to get on board with a real life in a real world. Do not feel pissed but still feel it is impossible to get out of the rut. Therapy out of the question. Did try a bit in association with trying to work with vocational rehabilitation. And mentioned the cult-like experience.
I began to lose my faith after my little brother got killed at the age of 22. He was living with his girlfriend at the time ie “living in sin” which according to Catholic beliefs is a mortal sin dooming one to hell. I was horrified at that thought and the injustice of it all and just like that my faith was gone. Truth be told it felt like a great weight had been lifted from me. Through study and common sense I came to understand that hell was created to control people. Now during these increasingly secular times the devil does not work as effectively so our lords and masters had to come up with something else to keep the masses in line. Climate change.
@@FoursWithin are you kidding me? Go green or the world will die! It’s all bullshit. Of course the climate is changing it is always changing and always has and always will be. 10000 years ago the North American continent was covered in ice. Who caused that? Cave men? All designed to get votes to keep the left in power so they can continue to get rich and fuck the rest of us over. Are you better off today than you were four years ago?
Wrong. They are using people's fears and prejudices against everyone, to keep people in line. Climate change is an actual thing, and believing otherwise is probably due to the enormous amount of money the Mining and Oil Industries have put into convincing folks to be anti-science.
@@FoursWithin by using the harsh conditions to force scarcity and austerity measures to promote poverty, desperation, and suffering, to keep the population trapped in a profit machine for a handful of ultra-rich families? I'm just guessing. The ruling class really is that capricious. Hopefully this person isn't seriously suggesting that climate change isn't real, or that climate scientists across the world, from all different economic systems, all have a shared interest in lying to protect those wealth-hoarding parasites on humanity. That would be dumber than being a Christian.
Sorry about your experience. Was not that way for me, man. I was happy to know that there was someone who was strong and capable of giving me His strength. Five years old and learned about Jesus. Went home with spiritual back up to say no to the males who were sexually abusing me. The church was my functional family.
You are right. I was a Baptist and the idea is that people make a decision of their own free will to become baptised when they are old enough to understand
Interesting video. He is so randy for an old dude. He keeps returning to the topic of pornography, which is kind of distracting, because we can't help but picture him at his computer...kind of gross. With that said, I did learn a few things.
I only thought of him looking at porn when you wrote about it.. I was zeroed in on what he had to say about de-conversion , deprogramming, desensitisation from trauma ,how hormones influence our behaviour and the BS propagated by Christianity. 😊 I do find the often secretive and closeted sexual behaviour of some religious , abhorrent , especially when it involves minors. Any child abuse must be legally punished. This man speaks candidly and professionally about sex and to judge him to be in contravention of culture-bound societal norms , when he is presumably not harming but professionally and legally helping, seems wrong minded. Just my opinion.
Enjoyed the honesty and realism inherent in this man’s demeanour and his ability to de-shame what is natural to us as human beings. Like your take on the religious fantasy world as being a perverted religious version of “naughty” literature or images.
I have to say that his ideas of sex and relationships doesn’t seem very healthy. Especially in this society. He talked about the society where the woman would have sex with three or four men so they would all feel responsible for her child. This society seems to have the total opposite
Close to 3 hours is way too long for me for a boobtube BUTT how did RUclips "know" that I might be interested in this sort of thing? I was in a restaurant recently and couldn't help but overhearing what was happening next to me. Long story shortER a guy was with his daughter and the parents are divorced. (At least that was my impression based on what I saw and heard). He's telling the younger girl what's wrong with Catholic beliefs and practices. Presumably his daughter's mother is a practicing catholic. He is a gung-ho Christian but of course he wants his daughter following his group's Christian stuff and NOT the mother's catholic stuff...poor kid! Thee end
Tell me about it.
Religion is literally a separate reality which forces the brain to accept self cancelling contradictions.
That's probably why we atheists look at all these ultra religious people and notice that it's their innate sense of humanity that is hijacked and missing and becomes conditional.
Reject Facts, substitute Fairy Tales
There is only one reality. The problem is filling in the blanks where we don't have direct knowledge, and it is rare to find someone who doesn't. People who are awarded nonsense labels like "scientist" do it all the time and call it theory. Just like their ecclesiastical counterparts they don't like people who don't believe their theories.
@@dharmaqueen7877 Education is wasted on the people who only read one book, written by goat herder's.
@dharmaqueen7877 Yeah, but at least scientists do it in the service of seeking the truth, as in, the scientific method is just simply a TOOL to help humans understand more - and when more is understood then there is no problem with agreement about the new knowledge by all. Whereas religion is in the service of... 🤷♀️ manipulation, control, indoctrination tax-free $$$ and plugging in the holes science just hasn't dealt with yet with mythology and a curtain around the Wizards who still hide the lies they've peddled for millennia.
His story about his dog is very relatable. As a rat lover, I have totally seen the God complex in rats. They watch you and will do all sort of things to get you give them treats and attention. They develop repetitive behaviors shortly before feeding times that I describe as rattie prayers. Rats naturally, very social and live in groups, and are very easy to train. Once one in a group learns something many of the others will pick up the behavior. A dog looks up to you, a cat looks down on you, and a rat treats you like a God.
That’s Churchill’s quote.
Except he said only a pig will look you in the eye as an equal.
@@pigmanobviousfunny because of the Greek myths about pigs being men turned into swine by Circe? Forget the goddess.
2:30:30 “the truth is incredibly threatening to a culture that is built on lies” WOW!
I could listen to Dr Darrel Ray talk for hours on end! I loved everything about this interview… he is a wealth of knowledge. I learned so much from this! Thank you, Tim!!!
It's not a new thought
This topic needs to be discussed more often. Thanks for having Dr. Darrel Ray on.
The original groomers. Targeting children has been a tactic for centuries.
...which is required for ALL religious cults to survive.
Thanks so much for yet another great interview, Dr. Darrel Ray. Thank you Tim for having him on! This was great!!!
At now 71 yo I can attest my mother did this to her 3 children she thought it was the right thing; I broke out at 50 yo after much critical thinking. My sister didn’t and indoctrinated her son who now wastes his life as a youth minister bless him. It is traumatic for a child. I was so afraid I would go to hell. So wrong!
@@davidrexford586if you enjoy your fables, good for you. The rest of us are glad to have gotten out of that nonsense.
@@davidrexford586you should follow the evidence, and lay off the Bible, it is demonstrably false.
@@davidrexford586 you asked the question buddy. Maybe stop asking questions if you don’t want an answer.
@@davidrexford586 I don't see having a spiritual life as the same as believing in the god of the Bible, or indeed any god in particular. The way I get it, all gods are meant to be icons that we can use to recognize the divine in our lives-- the divine that creates those miraculous experiences. Because I have had them to (got at least some better from a disease I was supposed to get worse and die from) and they had nothing to do with Yahweh or Jesus or Allah. It was a more direct connection.
It's a Cult
In defense of HOMESCHOOLING:
The practice itself isn't inherently harmful.
In fact, if you're referencing human history and natural history to better understand best practices as you do, you might notice that compulsory institutional schooling is a pretty new experiment. It is associated with a lot of bullying by some peers, teachers, and administrators, often entrenched poor pedagogy, and poor educational outcomes except in areas where parents are well-educated and so help their children learn.
I am an atheist homeschooling parent. I know many homeschooling families in my community -- both religious and irreligious -- who focus on raising healthy, happy, well-informed, responsible citizens of the real world.
One of the things I've had a difficult time dealing with since stopping believing in god, Christianity, or religions in general, is anger with myself and my mother.
On one hand I realize it's not either my or my mother's fault. She was indoctrinated and looking for answers and had needs. I wanted to please her and didn't know any better.
But, all the while my father was angry about my beliefs and it made our relationship very strained. He'd frequently point out it was indoctrination and brainwashing.
My parents divorced when I was young. My mother primarily raised me. I was 'born again' when I was 10.
His agnostic-atheism and anger issues - along with verbal and emotional abuse - made it easy to discount what he had to say.
But he was right all along.
The irony that nearly forty years later I became an agnostic-atheist, but he's got dementia, so bringing it up is pointless.
Thankfully we were able to get to a better place in our relationship prior to him showing signs of dementia.
Meanwhile I've barely talked to my mother in the past year or so precisely because she's still a fundamentalist Christian. And I was pretty close with her for a very long time.
My story is different except for the indoctrination part which my aunt did and got me to go to one of them holy roller churches. A lot of hellfire and brimstone, being left behind at the Rapture and warnings of the unpardonable sin. The last one that cause me the most tramma thinking I did it. It took a long time for me to get over that. I said goodbye to Christianity a long time ago and taken up art which is very therapeutic.
How sad your mother must be.
@@bonlevina5621 Not my problem. So, what, I'm supposed to try harder to believe again to please her so she won't be sad?!
People get disappointed in others, even family, all the time. To base our actions always on not trying to disappoint or make others sad is wrong.
@@bonlevina5621 I'm so disappointed in you. 😮
@@_S0me__0ne I sympathize with your situation. Thank you for sharing. Best wishes to you.
I haven't had time to actually watch this video because of its length, so I probably won't get to it until this weekend. However, just from the title alone, I can totally affirm that. I was born Catholic, so I literally was indoctrinated from birth. Between that and eventually converting from Catholicism to evangelicalism, I can say that from the earliest conscious moments of my life, being afraid of hell, and a vengeful schizophrenic God traumatized me and created dysfunctions in me that still persist to this day as I approach 50 years old.
I've met Dr. Ray personally; what a joy to hear him on one of my favorite channels helping to break the shackles of the religious mind-virus. I find it fascinating that tribal cultures experience their ancestors the same way Christians think they feel Jesus.
Thank you!! And please feel free to reach out if you'd ever consider an interview yourself: facebook.com/harmonictim
@@HarmonicAtheist I'm not the most exciting atheist in the world, but I'm a preacher's kid from a rather bizarre church.
Darrel is a personal friend and one of my favorite people😊
Podcast of the year! Everyone should see this. Finally, biological sense!
Dr Ray is incredible. This is one of the best episodes of Harmonic Atheist
Darrel's cool. I'm listening to this in the middle of the night. I admit that the major religions have used sex, and fear to control mankind. In particular Jesus is a template for a perfect man, but like the Buddha he doesn't enter the human circle. In other words, aside from alternative stories he never has sexual relations. This platonic ideal is against nature and most can't follow it. Fortunately, the philosophical hierarchy and family trauma was more of the reason I avoided sex than the horrors of bad religious leaders. Very good interview Harmonic Atheist. I wish you happiness in the future for you and the kids mate.
I abstained from sex until marriage as I believed I would go to Hell. In fact, a lot of things I did or didn't do as a Christian was motivated by the fear of Hell.
That's what keeps the business of religion going
What a wealth of knowledge! Probably the perfect interview guest for the topics of your channel Tim.
don't be sad that it happened, be glad that you made it !
We are still calibrating our brains to our bodies and environment until we die. :)
Great interview🎉. My heartfelt Thank you Tim for the work you invest. One can feel your energy and commitment from afar. I am still a Catholic. But its always fun and moreover very insightful watching you🎉😂🎉 Keep it up....🌻
Thank you so much, Randy!! I really appreciate your support.
It's fantastic listen to Dr. Darrel Ray. And Tim Mills. I have listen to you for years. Great education.
You two have great chemistry and this interview is phenomenal. I really hope there is a part 2 to this one! 👍👍
Tim’s analogy of the Christ fantasy vs. porn fantasy was spot on. These “Christian” fundies spend their whole lives ignoring the person right in front of them for the Christ fantasy. It is sad because you realize they are ignoring real life for a pipe dream. So, Dr Ray talking about the Catholic woman reminded me of myself. I was raised mainstream Catholic with a Jewish father. I suffered no religious trauma and am considered a very liberal, open minded person but after watching this episode I see how my Catholic upbringing has impacted me. So much of what he said rings true
37:15 "I'm not Struggling with my sexuality, I'm Experiencing my sexuality!" Wow. The way that religion made us despise and fear our own natural humanity is so unfair. Getting free from religion and finally embracing our humanity and enjoying our bodies is so exciting.😊🥰
I am a Christian Minister, who also teaches Sunday School watching this. Tim, you have me interested every single time I watch your videos such as this, it is interesting. Yet, it is hard to grasp the idea that Christianity is mythology, and that is it and nothing more (as far as Christianity).
I definitely get it! MythVision is great place to start with for now, and I'll be publishing several large projects, hopefully starting this year, where I talk about the mythology behind the Bible. I hope I can be of help as that eventually comes to fruition. Best wishes on your journey and research.
@@HarmonicAtheist sounds good 👍 By the way, I have been following Mythvision around the same time I started following your channel. Both of you have interesting topics concerning our belief systems.
@@coreybarnett7785it’s great that you’re open minded on what they have to say. What’s your opinion on the psychological trauma Christianity can put on someone?
@@KeanuReevesIsMyJesus I believe it can traumatizing if one teaches Christianity from a fear aspect. I know my Pastor encourages us to teach with love and compassion vs manipulation and control. Big difference.
@@coreybarnett7785 do you believe hell is a form of eternal conscious torment? Do you believe even taught in a loving way, that idea can be traumatizing?
Great interview!! I like his explanation of “shortcuts” we use. It always irritated me when people say” I’m praying for you.” I always though it was a cop out.
Got a 4 on the test thought it was no big deal and saw just a 4/10 has some crazy side effects for health, both physical and mental. And I gotta say, it’s decently accurate for how general it is.
Where is the test again?
@@layneyancey4619just look up ACE test
Mary had a little lamb she also had some trauma, and everywhere that Mary went, the trauma followed, too.
And though the lamb was white as snow, it stuck to her like glue, and by and by, they
both got lost, and neither had a clue.
This was excellent! I learned so much from this episode. Great conversation. Thank you.
Dr. Darrel Ray is awesome.
What a terrific interview!! It’s fascinating, disheartening, yet hopeful as trauma recovery is always, always possible.
Christianity is absolutely shame based. Obvious guilt based as well. I was raised Catholic, and sexual shame runs deep. Let’s not get this confused.
100 percent.. you feel ashamed and guilty for being human... the homophobia in the Bible really made me kiss religion good bye. Mythological dogma needs to go!!
Great interview! Thank you. Darrel is exceptional.
Wonderful guest and discussion....thanks for this, I learned a lot from it.
Thank you to both of you for helping free us from religious poisonous thinking ❤
I had an idea and want to let you know before I forget (I'm multitasking right now). I know it's more work, but have you thought about making shorter clips of each interview? They're very long but maybe you could post bits and pieces of them, 5-10 minutes or so, just some of your favourite parts of the interview, a specific question and answer, etc.
I agree! You could also post the complete long-form interviews in parallel. It's just that they can be so overwhelming that often I don't even start. I greatly appreciate the depth and wholeness of a really long interview like this or like those on Mormon Stories Podcast, but even so my day is more suited to the shorter bits.
Being sex-positive is important as long as it doesn't become an addiction.
Thank you both so, so much!
Thank you
The video title is an understatement.❤
In second grade, I drew a picture of a hand, holding a very slender thread over raging flames. At the end of the thread was a spider. The hand belonged to God and I was the spider. In my mind, all it took was one false move, and Jehovah would drop me into that fire - FOR ALL ETERNITY! 60 years later, I still find it challenging to completely divest myself of that toxic belief system.
@@bentesch6739 Actually I had never heard of that essay until you mentioned it in your comments. Upon a relatively quick scanning of the text, though, it seems to align fairly accurately with the fire-and - brimstone dogmas and indoctrinations that I was brought up with.
This was an excellent interview. Cracking the cosmic egg. Love it!
Wonderful and educational video. The crack in the cosmic egg...WOW!!
Thanks to you both.
Oh my goodness, I can’t listen to Dr.Ray all day!! He reminds me of that cool uncle who you can talk to about anything.
He hit on so many good points during this interview. The church has people living in virtual reality and doesn’t tap into the real world. Dam, this was so so good. I have to get some of his books now, well done Tim!!
Oh yeah, childhood indoctrination is horrid and devastating. Wrecks lives
Smart guy. Same with me. My parents certainly were fundaMENTAList and still are. But as soon as I started to read the Bible for myself I knew stories like the creation and the flood had to be made up. Then I did science at school and university and confirmed it. But I was a liberal believer for many decades. I’m 57 and only now looking back do I realise I never believed any of it except for some amazing encounters with the transcendent that are still precious to me. But I wouldn’t be so presumptuous to label the experience as God. And I’ve just got divorced from a religious wife too. I think marriage is part of religion’s way to mess you up.
I was dunked at 8 in a baptist missionary in Japan (dad was in the Air Force) and was kicked out the following Easter when I started crying uncontrollably because Jesus failed, in dying for our sins, even at 8 I could recognize that people were sinning constantly. Since then I’ve realized that when it comes to any religion I have no faith.
Another great conversation. They're all so good!
I never got married, not even engaged.... I think our culture over-values long term monogamous relationships. It's great if that is what folks want... but plz, let's stop shaming when it doesn't last forever! My friends and family got married, then they got divorced. Relationships don't Fail.... they just End. And folks can move on to another chapter of life.🥰
The first time i showed up to a mass they asked me if i was devoted to be catholic. I said im not sure, just wanted to be in the group class since my cousin took me. I was sat alone, in a chair, in the middle of the hall for two hours. I was 6 years old. Never again.
This channel is like free therapy for post-deconversion religion trauma.
This guest is so strangely relatable, considering my own story
At the age of 15, in 1968, while on spring break from high school, I spent it reading In the Shadow of Man (yes, I was a very introverted nerd). It was one of the biggest literary influences in my life.
My ex has a lot of guilt around sex. A month or so before we broke up, he decided that he would be abstinent and practiced his catholic faith more. We were each other's first, so neither of us knew much. But I way more comfortable with sex than he was; he would never masturbate and usually the only time I orgasmed was when I masturbated alone. I had some medical problems that resulted in penetration not being pleasurable and sometimes painful. And my ex would get frustrated when I didn't want sex.
His guilt about sex somewhat rubbed off on me, but I could never be so ashamed to abstain completely like him. I realized that our beliefs (not just about sex) weren't compatible so I had to break up with him after 2 years. I loved him but I was not happy.
Wonderful episode! I definitely feel that I, and many of the people I grew up with, were traumatized by religion. I was homeschooled like you, Tim. Young earth creationist parents, and a pastor for a father.
Celibacy is the biggest perversion? My inner asexual strongly disagrees. By the way I hoped the talk would be focused primarily on childhood indoctrination and not on sex.
I agree…found myself thinking about Brave New World’s chapter 3 with the children playing sexual games in the bushes. Aldous Huxley was not a Christian, so the indoctrination charge with coming from a Christian cannot be laid at his door. It would not be a pleasant sight to have a child humping an adults or anyone else’s legs like dog. Being focused on sex early has repercussions. There are non-Christian pedophiles who think children want their attention. I think our focus needs to be on protecting children’s innocence. A Randy adult has made their choice…have a voice to use such as I am hearing in this interview. Children don’t have that choice.
I must say, this is what I thought about too, when I heard that statement about celibacy! I immediately thought, "What about people who are asexual?" It seemed extremely judgemental to say that without qualification regarding the range of natural human sexual expression. Not everyone, religious or not, have the same levels of sexual desire. I thought the old adage of, "as long as both people in a couple agree about the frequency of sexual intimacy, then there's no problem" still applies? I'd love to know the Dr's views on this topic and whether it was just an oversight.
I have masturbated for as long as I can remember. My earliest memories are sexual in nature. There has never been a time in my life that I didn’t have sexual urges. Even as a very young, preteen boy. I was always acutely aware of women and their bodies.
I have always known that I could never be monogamous. I have the perfect partner who also can’t be monogamous. She is so amazing and I am the happiest I have ever been.
If you have not heard of the word compersion, check it out.
Great job, you two!
I didn’t know whether to take this comment seriously or not
@@59master60SAME here! That is just beyond normal. I don’t wanna be judgmental but it sounds like coming from a PERVERT. 🙂↔️🙂↔️ Peace!✌🏿😵💫
my favorite new channel
I wonder what Dr Ray thinks about no fap? There’s supposed to be all this research that chronic masturbation can deplete the dopamine levels in the brain and can be unhealthy. There’s a woman named Dr Trish Lee who is really into not looking at porn and masturbating. Of course she’s probably racking in the revenue from her movement. Yet what I’m interested in is Dr Rays views on the dopamine levels in the brain being deleted from masturbation
Chronic masturbation and masturbation are really two different things.
Chronic sex with a partner (10 times a day for two months straight?) would equal the same outcome without masturbating a single time. Low dopamine isn't a sin and it won't kill you.
If someone has an addiction they need to address it. But addiction is addiction. And sex is a primal biological drive. We're sex machines.
Why does it have to be a dichotomy between too much masturbation and none at all? Surely if one can masturbate without fear or guilt, then it will happen organically, maybe two, three times a week, maybe more , maybe not at all. Religious people are so hung up. It's your body, do with it what you wish.
So I stopped about 10 minutes in when the guy basically said he never believed in the first place. Why was he on here again?
This guy's story pretty much aligns with mine. I got out at age 22 but still traumatized
Religion is where I developed a fear of death. In my family; hell and demonic torture were common threats of punishment used by adults anytime we annoyed or offended them. That's cruel.
Interesting guest. What happened to discerning the difference between pornography and erotica? I personally think pornography should be illegal but not erotica. There are certainly grey areas but the worst would be eliminated or at least harder to find and hopefully out of reach of children. I am not Christian nor was i raised that way.
It is men, according to research that want sexual novelty. Think of gay men vs gay women.
Tim, I don't think this man is a good role model. He makes some accurate points but some of what he says is not correct as he says it.
There are some animals that humans have NEVER seen mating. Chimps and bonobos have lost territory and are watched all the time by researchers. Some of them never have any kind of privacy.
Some human cultures regularly once sacrificed their own people and slavery was all too common. I think perhaps that is our nature, why have we begun repressing this. We should rediscover this about ourselves.
Personally i feel that what goes on between consenting adults is their business. But what I admire is a couple that have been together for a long time and are still happy.
There was not time to dive into all aspects of this conversation, but I'd agree with some of what you wrote. There are definitely more angles to see this from, more nuances, and more viewpoints to consider. I'd like to think of it as a starting point. I'll be having this topic come back up on the channel before long.
Fantastic, thank you
Someone really needs to explain asexuality to this guy. Also if you are in a marriage and you and your partner and perfectly happy with sex once a month or less, that is ALSO perfectly normal and okay.
Have you climbed Mt Rainier or Adams in Washington state?
Can you Tim recommend any further reading on this topic?
So informative!
Big difference for me. I believed in heaven for a long time after I stopped believing in hell because I believed in a God of love and hell just didn’t seem consistent with that
I would like to look into the possibility of sharing my story on your channel. Not sure how to reach out other than this
A saying attribued to the Jesuits is "give me the child until he is 7 and I'll give you the man". I was programmed in the christian schools, constant indoctrination. I rebelled going into 10th grade. I knew things were wrong but had no idea how to express it. Mom and Dad decided they better listen as I refused to return after day one of 10th grade. I won't go hunting any of those people if they were still around, but I wouldn't lift a finger to help or save them either. Baptist, then church if god denominations. Youtth groups, music. CoG wasn't as traumatic. My prvt baptist school informed me that my CoG were wrong and would be going to hell, and I would be joining them.
All a phuqing lie. Mommy was full of fear of everything and transmitted it into her sons. Dad was too casual about keeping things level because he too had believed his whole life it was all real. I don't hate them. They had been programmed too. I was resentful that they never questioned things the way they did everything else. Luckily we weren't too far "the club" so we eventually outgrew going at all.
Heck yeah, I want to be "that aunt."
If people, my kids or my nieces and nephew, want to be Christian, without the threat of eternal punishment, I’m ok with it. My kids don’t believe, and I’m grateful that we share similar values of civil rights and compassion towards others, without the warped perspective of the Bible. My nephew is a youth pastor but he is super cool and nonjudgmental so I’m fine with how he practices his faith. Not that he would change, but just to say that I’m ok with liberal, “humanist” theism. Or should I say Christian’s who actually act like Christ, which is unfortunately rare.
You might want to look into what Christ actually says and supports outside of the feel good cherry picking so common with Christians.
Christians who act like Christ would be supporting slavery, superstition, and cult ideology.
Sometimes in relationships, possessiveness and jealousy creeps in. Relationships do carry these types of reactions. Do not know quite if that is just a cultural phenomenon or a tribal/pheromonal response?? Should attachments be seen as a normal survival and tribal response?
Bro was born again at 38 im bummed out and feeling useless in my 20s, I gotta be more like Unc!!!
Immunize children with science fiction.
My mother sent me to a Catholic elementary school. But I stumbled across science fiction in 4th grade. My mother called it "something crazy". I ignored her.
I decided that I was an agnostic in 7th grade.
Unfortunately people think *Star Wars* is science fiction these days.
*Omnilingual* by H Beam Piper
*Deathworld* by Harry Harrison
*The Mote in God's Eye* by Niven and Pournelle
Raise the quality of kids reading material.
Aren't kids the future? Science Fiction is future oriented not Shakespeare.
Star wars is soap opera in space.
@@FoursWithin
Space Fantasy!
Star Wars IS literally science fiction! What are you talking about?
@@Venusbabe66
Read a Real SF book to find out.
*A Fall of Moondust* by Arthur C Clarke
@@Venusbabe66Where's the science?
Kids ought to sue.
Indoctrination is just teaching and is not limited to "religion". Teaching a child anything they are incapable of knowing by experience (creationism, evolution, resurrection, space travel etc...) is indoctrination.
“Indoctrinate” has not meant that since the 1800s. To Indoctrinate has meant to brainwash for hundreds of years as it does in this video.
TL,DR: Psychology / psychiatry are nothing but one more religion to topple. They don't work for refractory conditions and often do far more harm than good. Yes, I know this isn't a popular opinion, but neither is (was?) atheism. I was ahead of the curve on atheism. Perhaps I'm ahead of the curve on psychiatry. Read my full post for why I am questioning.
Perhaps it's time to look at the bigger picture: society.
Thank you.
***********************
I've been "getting therapy" for ~40 years. Every therapist I've had has either been ineffective or downright harmful. The therapist I had longest had a somewhat inappropriate relationship with me and then dumped me. I needed a therapist to get over that therapist. She abandoned me the same fortnight my closest family member and best friend died. I needed another therapist to get over that abandonment. Last June, the "best therapist I ever had" fed me to the machine running the War on Pain Patients. I'm still reeling from those experiences.
One definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. With that in mine, I've started to question psychology and psychiatry the same way I did religion.
There's no question the "medications" I took did more harm than good. I entered the psychiatric healthcare system as a skinny person with severe depression. Psychiatry and psychology turned me into a morbidly obese zombie with severe depression.
Ten years ago, I started slowly coming off medications and I'm still not finished. It is super dangerous. I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT. Why? It's just as dangerous to come off the drugs as it is to take them in the first place. No one would help me come off psych medications because: KA-CHING!!!!
Still, every time I came off a psych drug, I got better both mentally and physically. I dropped weight without trying. 100 pounds went down some drain or another. AGAIN: It's as dangerous to come off the drugs as it is to take them in the first place. It's amazing I'm still here. I plan to come off even more meds. It very well may kill me, but staying on them will do that, too.
"Talk therapy" also did more harm than good. I wasted all that time with ineffectual and/or harmful therapists when I could have been learning how to develop healthy relationships with actual people. I now view therapists as "emotional prostitutes" who take your money and pretend to be your friend as long as it's comfortable for them / they get their money. They don't know any more than I do about the reasons for my depression and anxiety. Their religious construct makes them think they do, but they don't.
Think I'm wrong? It's ALL about the money. I'm sure many (if not most) therapists enter the field with the goal of helping people, but the system won't let them actually do it. Even therapists who recognize Religious Trauma Syndrome are ineffective or harmful.
I spent time, money and energy I couldn't afford to go to a retreat for RTS. I was so exhausted due to my chronic illnesses, I had to sleep through much of the retreat. The psychologist accused me of not really wanting to get better.
No, I was suffering from multiple chronic illnesses / invisible disabilities. You'd think a psychologist would understand chronic illnesses + stressful traveling = marathon sleeping. But no!
During the rest of the retreat, I noticed that everything was about her. She doesn't seem to truly understand depression or what it does to a person. She's much more concerned with gaining status in her field. It reminded me SO MUCH of the way ministers treat members of their congregation. My illnesses and feelings were completely ignored. Everything had to go to the glory of the psychologist and the good DSM IV.
For me, the retreat was a turning point. I considered the time, energy and money I spent on that retreat a bit of a "last resort" and all it did was waste my resources and make me feel I'd exhausted every avenue. If the person who coined the term "Religious Trauma Syndrome" could be so uncaring and obtuse, that (in conjunction with my other experiences) began to make me question. After this experience, I had no choice but to walk a different path.
Only very recently have I come to suspect that most of psychiatry / psychology is bunk. As I did with religion, I blamed myself over and over and over. I'm done blaming myself. I put in the work. I tried. Psychiatry failed me, not the other way around.
Without the help of psychiatrists / psychologists, I came off their addictive, poisonous chemicals, lost weight, got healthier and prolonged my life.
Psychology is a "soft" science. The precepts are unfalsifiable and manmade. What else is unfalsifiable and manmade? Hmmmm...let me think. Why are we all here right now?
Is it possible, nay probable, that psychology is just one more religion to topple? Yes, it has some truths. All religions have truths. That's how they entrap you.
*************
So, what is the true cause of the mental illness epidemic? Since I believe my opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, I'll throw my hat into the ring, too. Mental illness is caused by societal ills. Psychology is making the same mistake that other religions and Western medicine do. They treat the symptoms, not the cause.
In some cases, such as a bacterial infection, treating the "individual cells" works, but had the "society" (person) been healthier, perhaps the infection would never have taken hold in the first place.
Psychology and other religions try to treat individuals without looking at the big picture. Those running our society will not get behind sweeping changes that would make us healthier because: KA-CHING!!! I know nothing about Jiddu Krishnamurti except for one quote, but I happen to agree with it: "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
Every single one of my psychiatrists / psychologists wanted me to be well adjusted to this profoundly sick society. No thanks. I don't want to be well adjusted to extreme individualism, worshiping the almighty dollar, making billionaires richer, killing the environment, etc. I'm being forced to adjust, and it makes me miserable.
I'm walking my own path. I'm ditching the "medications" that made me so ill, losing weight, getting out into nature, taking walks. The more I stay away from psychiatric system, the healthier I get. Maybe there's still enough time to reverse the damage they've done.
Was/am a JW. Cleaned. Put Jehovah first. On the “ark” that takes us into a paradise after the great tribulation and Armageddon. That was the “reality”. Do you have any idea of how difficult life can be? If the script was written to understand your needs, talents, and abilities- allow that to become the map to figure out how to get on board with a real life in a real world. Do not feel pissed but still feel it is impossible to get out of the rut. Therapy out of the question. Did try a bit in association with trying to work with vocational rehabilitation. And mentioned the cult-like experience.
I began to lose my faith after my little brother got killed at the age of 22. He was living with his girlfriend at the time ie “living in sin” which according to Catholic beliefs is a mortal sin dooming one to hell.
I was horrified at that thought and the injustice of it all and just like that my faith was gone. Truth be told it felt like a great weight had been lifted from me.
Through study and common sense I came to understand that hell was created to control people. Now during these increasingly secular times the devil does not work as effectively so our lords and masters had to come up with something else to keep the masses in line. Climate change.
How exactly does climate change keep anyone " in line " ?
@@FoursWithin are you kidding me? Go green or the world will die!
It’s all bullshit. Of course the climate is changing it is always changing and always has and always will be. 10000 years ago the North American continent was covered in ice. Who caused that?
Cave men?
All designed to get votes to keep the left in power so they can continue to get rich and fuck the rest of us over.
Are you better off today than you were four years ago?
Wrong. They are using people's fears and prejudices against everyone, to keep people in line. Climate change is an actual thing, and believing otherwise is probably due to the enormous amount of money the Mining and Oil Industries have put into convincing folks to be anti-science.
@@FoursWithin by using the harsh conditions to force scarcity and austerity measures to promote poverty, desperation, and suffering, to keep the population trapped in a profit machine for a handful of ultra-rich families? I'm just guessing. The ruling class really is that capricious.
Hopefully this person isn't seriously suggesting that climate change isn't real, or that climate scientists across the world, from all different economic systems, all have a shared interest in lying to protect those wealth-hoarding parasites on humanity. That would be dumber than being a Christian.
How long did it take you to figure that shit out? I was seven.
Great job!!!!
Sorry about your experience. Was not that way for me, man. I was happy to know that there was someone who was strong and capable of giving me His strength. Five years old and learned about Jesus. Went home with spiritual back up to say no to the males who were sexually abusing me. The church was my functional family.
Not sure of any Baptists that baptize more than once. None of the southern baptists I’ve ever known have been. Maybe it’s s northern thing?
You are right. I was a Baptist and the idea is that people make a decision of their own free will to become baptised when they are old enough to understand
Love this channel. I hate religion. It stole my youth.
Interesting video. He is so randy for an old dude. He keeps returning to the topic of pornography, which is kind of distracting, because we can't help but picture him at his computer...kind of gross. With that said, I did learn a few things.
I only thought of him looking at porn when you wrote about it.. I was zeroed in on what he had to say about de-conversion , deprogramming, desensitisation from trauma ,how hormones influence our behaviour and the BS propagated by Christianity. 😊 I do find the often secretive and closeted sexual behaviour of some religious , abhorrent , especially when it involves minors. Any child abuse must be legally punished. This man speaks candidly and professionally about sex and to judge him to be in contravention of culture-bound societal norms , when he is presumably not harming but professionally and legally helping, seems wrong minded. Just my opinion.
Enjoyed the honesty and realism inherent in this man’s demeanour and his ability to de-shame what is natural to us as human beings. Like your take on the religious fantasy world as being a perverted religious version of “naughty” literature or images.
I have to say that his ideas of sex and relationships doesn’t seem very healthy. Especially in this society. He talked about the society where the woman would have sex with three or four men so they would all feel responsible for her child. This society seems to have the total opposite
Clearly this is filtered through your particular perception of how an older person SHOULD behave and speak
Idk no judgement but he does come off a little fixated to me. Time and place. Read the room. Etc.
Is religious thinking the same as limerence?
I see it as closer to addiction.
Wow, 777 likes… must be a sign
Close to 3 hours is way too long for me for a boobtube BUTT how did RUclips "know" that I might be interested in this sort of thing? I was in a restaurant recently and couldn't help but overhearing what was happening next to me. Long story shortER a guy was with his daughter and the parents are divorced. (At least that was my impression based on what I saw and heard). He's telling the younger girl what's wrong with Catholic beliefs and practices. Presumably his daughter's mother is a practicing catholic. He is a gung-ho Christian but of course he wants his daughter following his group's Christian stuff and NOT the mother's catholic stuff...poor kid! Thee end
Walgelijk interview. Kan het niet eens afluisteren.
Christianity may have caused an actual trauma-bondng to Jesus.🤔
Agreed, for sure.
3 some 2 other men or 2 other women 🤔 It goes both ways.
I just have to disagree with him on one point. Christianity is also shame-based.
But interesting theory he has
44:08.
DR: You have been deeply programmed into xtian ideology.
TM: It's my First language! 😖
😩💔❤🩹 so glad the kids won't have that experience!