You blokes blow my mind. I have trouble soldering droppers to the track! Melted sleepers everywhere. By the way, I can still make tea and bring two packets of biscuits.....
Hey Robin... You would be welcome. p.s, Its only Pete that can solder this stuff. Even he needs a magnifying glass. Iain turns pale when the soldering iron is turned on and I can't solder for toffee..
I really do enjoy these... sounds like a very pleasurable hobby. Here I am sitting behind 5 computer screens doing "my putts-ing thing", and you're working with hundreds (of locomotives)!!! Ahhhh . Keep up the fabulous work [and a quick hello to Charlie]
This is great David. I too modify my locos to have all of the lighting independant, even the main headlamp & markers ect. Its great fun but so time consuming, most people seem to think im mad! You can actually use a standard Loksound V4 with aux 3&4 just but buying a small output booster from Lais, as in you can get it seperately from the all in one decoder socket if you dont want to rip the whole loco to bits! Keep up the fun work! Eric
A really good informative video. When you say that you are using function F8 for aux lighting functions does that mean that you operate sound fitted models without the "U drive" or "drivelock" features that are programmed to that function on so many sound chips?.
Hi Chris, Yes, We steer clear of both of those features and build our own function mapping. Its important to understand that the mainline thrashing is done by the TrainController software. As such. the computer has to be able to stop it within a metre or so to avoid problems. There are alternative methods of getting the drive sound to ramp up say when going up a gradient or with a heavy load without increasing speed. In LS4 world we used the Heavy and Light load feature. ESU in their wisdom took this functionality away and introduced extra shift functions. So we modified the files for LS5 to support Shift 2 for adding heavy load and Shift 3 to make it light. We assigned these logical functions to the same function keys as heavy and light load (V4) and enjoy the noisy thrashing they get as traincontroller turns these functions on and off as the trains go around the layout... Works to good effect.
Brilliant use of electronics on ESU chips. Can I do the same with my Lenz and Zimo chips? Will the ESU software read/write to Lenz and Zimo, do you know? Thanks a lot, Keith
Hi Keith, I think you can do the same with Zimo and probably lenz too. The ESU LokProgrammer only recognises ESU chips. and I think the Zimo hardware has similar limitations. You can use a JMRI with a SPROG to program all your chips, but be warned it is a lengthy process for each chip and you can only update/replace the sound files with the manufacturers own kit . For this any many other reasons, we standardised on one chip family, ESU and their programmer, to reduce programming time, cut down silly mistakes and reduce our knowledge load by only having to think about one family of DCC chips. David
This is a great video and I also use Stickswipe's kits to add/modify the lighting on my locos. The only question I have about your programming is: how would this work if you were MU'ing/double-heading (OR push-pull)? Would you still be able to only have the rear locos tail lights on without invoking the "parking lights"? Keep up the good work - I really enjoy watching (and learning) the techy side of what you guys are doing.
Hello Chris, Some good questions there. We don't have any push pull trains. We would have to change the function key assignments as we have configured F8 to turn on the tail lights either with headlights or both sets of tails without the heads. In your scenario, we would need to allow tail lights at one end only and no headlights when pushing and the opposite in the other direction. This could be done as we have separated out the four lights physically. For double heading, we don't reply on consisting in the DCC sense. If we were to run a double headed train around the layout, we rely onTrainController, which performs a virtual consist in the sense that it know how to drive each loco at say 10 MPH and 20 MPH and so on. The beauty of this is that we can "Consist" any pair of locos on the layout and they would run fine together. Logically we would turn the function headlights on for just the front loco, so it would look right. However, I believe TrainController only sends function keys for the front Loco, but we have not explored this aspect fully yet. I believe it would give us some problems with the sound functions of Heavy load, coast and mute for the second loco. Something to be explored.. Regards David
Thanks for a very informative video. Presumably all of the standard ESU chips would need the Lais adaptor boards for the functionality you have shown. It would be useful to see one of those fitted (and how to), as this would save buying new chips. Presumably it would also be a question of checking for sufficient space to fit the additional adaptor board. Dave
Hi Dave, No . The Lais adapter board is required for when you want to replace an 8-pin socket with a 21pin socket. If you have an 8-pin model and want Aux 1 and Aux 2 you can achieve it without changing the PCB/motherboard. The Aux1 is wired to a 8-Pin DCC socket - Its the green wire. The Aux 2 has to be wired to the chip directly. It is fiddly but can be done. We'll show an 8-pin adaptation in a later video.
I've rechassis'd a Replica Railways Class 45 with a homemade chassis using Bachmann running gear and a Lais adapter board, I'm now realising, that with the information you're provided here, I can also wire in independently operated lighting. 👍
Nice work, are there documented notes anywhere to refer to? Looking at the size of this layout makes me envious! Always good to make sure other wires are out of the way when soldering as at least 1 yellow had a bit of melted insulation from the iron although appreciate doing it for filming introduces issues. I know space is tight but Id always recommend using a 'helping hands' to hold 2 wires to be soldered together because just soldering across them them freehand can result in a weak joint or worse, a dry joint.
Hi David - in one of the previous videos, one of the team members mentioned that the sound of the locomotives can be muted automatically after the locomotive is stationary for a while - can you share with us how to achive this on our v5 Loksound decoders? - Thanks
Hi Shelton, the best way is to use the LokSound mute function and set the mute volume to be say 10 or 12. Make it on an easily accessible key. As we run the trains into the station with TrainController, it can be programmed to mute the Loco when it is idle and to un-mute it just before it pulls away.
Hello David, I am wondering what the NAME or perhaps STYLE of DATABASE you have got with your layout, I know it is FILE MAKER, I have been searching RUclips for a DATABASE that is something like what you have, even though there is some NAMEs that I have no idea what these are but for now this is not my problem, as every OTHER RUclips I have seen here online is only DESCRIBING about Names and Addresses and/or AGE, for a OFFICE and their DATABASE of EMPLORERS contacts. Most have used RELATIONSHIPS that have 1 or 2 TABLEs that are joined together and are able to be moved around, THIS IS not what I am wanting. Thanks Graeme
Hello Graeme, it is the same system. Unfortunately, most database applications are about names, addresses and stock codes. I am afraid there are no obvious examples out there for you to follow. I can assure you that it does work with more that 1 or 2 relationships. David
And I should have mentioned how useful Kapton tape is to prevent solder bridging across to adjacent IC contacts which are close together, such as my N gauge models. Keith
And it's not even a teeny teeny tiny .2mm tip on the soldering iron. If I tried that it would need much more than a scrape with the end of the tweezers to ensure I'd not connected the pins together! Would be nice if there was more of a physical barrier between the pads, but that'd add even more to the cost of chips.
Agreed.. its not for the faint hearted. Pete uses a DM4 digital microscope. its called the Digital Electronic Microscope 1000x 2.0mp Dm4 on Amazon... It makes everything a lot easier.
Hi there your video is really good. I have checked on the link you supplied and unfortunately the seller does not ship to New Zealand 😕, which is rather vexing. The other thing is I can't write to the seller either, finding Bachmann class 20, 37 & 45/46 directional lighting is a pain, Ebay doesn't offer this facility. 😢. Can I buy through you? I know it's a bit of an ask but I thought I would ask just in case. Thank you for any help you guys can offer. Cheers 🍻
Guy, Surely you can connect with Jason at Stickswipe through the ebay "ask a question" on any of his products, give him the quantity required and get a UK price and then ask him to email me and cc you in. If we can help we will. Regards David
I think Hornby will sit on their laurels for some time yet in raising the functionality of tgeir loco lights.....i just get that gut feeling yet Accura Dapol Heljan Bachmann are looking at ways of constant improvement.....
Some are and some are not... Heljan and Bachman don't have to reengineer their models to provide the enhancements, just update the Motherboard PCBS. They have made constant revisions over the last 15 years, but smarter DCC lighting doesn't appear to figure much.
Maybe I missed this from a much earlier video, but how is McKinley Railway funded? There must be tens of thousands of pounds of railway components within the house.
I was wondering the same, especially as (unlike a lot of other channels) there is no plugging of patron or plea for donations. I can only assume that its form David's personal wealth be that through investments, early retirement on a decent pension or a huge win on the lottery, and as such is private. I would also assume that if you have such a huge fleet and needed to purchase 100's of decoders or lighting modules it puts you in a good position to negotiate bulk discount at wholesale rates, but we are still talking considerable sums of money. I'm just thankful that David and his team have the resources in both time and money to develop McKinley, and Charlie is able document it's progress so we can all enjoy it.
Boys...My mum told me its rude to ask questions like that... All I can say is it is a lot cheaper than vintage racing cars and yachts. I like Chris' response.
@@dattouk Hence my comment that its personal... I can see why David asked though, when you start talking about upgrading 200+ locos at even £10 a pop you don't need a degree to workout the cost of such a project. The thing is my mother (god rest her sole) used to say " if you got it flaunt it".... :)
The quantity thing was to demonstrate the folly of doing it. It seemed like a good idea at the time to keep everyone occupied, but golly it was a light too far to misquote a famous metaphor. The time and effort has been inordinate. Never mind... We are there now.. b.t.w I have come across a huge numbers of modeller who have nearly 1/3 the stock levels of McKinley and don't even have a railway to run it on. At least everything will have a home track on mcKinley. :-)
Need to be a bit more careful when using the pulling on the wires, when he was working on the Class 47 he broke the wire insulation and left bare stands open underneath the chip. I'm surprised you didn't upgrade all the speakers in the models at the same time.
Hi Martin, Thanks for the spot on the wire.. I'll check that out. Its easily done. Luckily the chips appear to be relatively forgiving. We have precious few casualties. Re the speaker. Its interesting. Why would we upgrade the speakers? What benefit would there be?
@@dattouk the difference in sound quality between the older style speakers without a sealed enclosure and the new smaller sealed speakers is amazing. Have a look at a company called Road and Rails, he specialises in speaker upgrades for sound fitted locos. I believe your video editor Charlie Bishop has recently upgraded a few of his.
@@trainmanbob to repair damaged insulation? Yes, a sleeve of heat shrink tube would be perfect. In the same way that heat shrink was used to cover the solder connection where the wire was extended.
@@martinfinbow2120 Agree about the speaker upgrade. Did an upgrade onClass 20 using a Roads and Rails double I phone slim - ruclips.net/video/qgAZSHO-Yns/видео.html. Amazing improvement Dave
You blokes blow my mind. I have trouble soldering droppers to the track! Melted sleepers everywhere. By the way, I can still make tea and bring two packets of biscuits.....
Hey Robin... You would be welcome.
p.s, Its only Pete that can solder this stuff. Even he needs a magnifying glass. Iain turns pale when the soldering iron is turned on and I can't solder for toffee..
I really do enjoy these... sounds like a very pleasurable hobby. Here I am sitting behind 5 computer screens doing "my putts-ing thing", and you're working with hundreds (of locomotives)!!! Ahhhh . Keep up the fabulous work [and a quick hello to Charlie]
Kevin,
What is a putts-ing? We are intrigued.
This is great David. I too modify my locos to have all of the lighting independant, even the main headlamp & markers ect. Its great fun but so time consuming, most people seem to think im mad!
You can actually use a standard Loksound V4 with aux 3&4 just but buying a small output booster from Lais, as in you can get it seperately from the all in one decoder socket if you dont want to rip the whole loco to bits!
Keep up the fun work!
Eric
Ooh... Thanks for the tip Eric...
@@dattouk anytime mate. Keep up the vids i love them!
Truly amazing work!
I approve of lighting modifications. I am doing something similar with my N gauge models.
Well James, methinks you are madder that us. Its hard enough on OO. Good luck
@@dattouk Madder than McKinley? Gosh, that is quite the compliment!
thank you for share the detailed video
Glad it was helpful!
A really good informative video. When you say that you are using function F8 for aux lighting functions does that mean that you operate sound fitted models without the "U drive" or "drivelock" features that are programmed to that function on so many sound chips?.
Hi Chris,
Yes, We steer clear of both of those features and build our own function mapping. Its important to understand that the mainline thrashing is done by the TrainController software. As such. the computer has to be able to stop it within a metre or so to avoid problems. There are alternative methods of getting the drive sound to ramp up say when going up a gradient or with a heavy load without increasing speed. In LS4 world we used the Heavy and Light load feature. ESU in their wisdom took this functionality away and introduced extra shift functions. So we modified the files for LS5 to support Shift 2 for adding heavy load and Shift 3 to make it light. We assigned these logical functions to the same function keys as heavy and light load (V4) and enjoy the noisy thrashing they get as traincontroller turns these functions on and off as the trains go around the layout... Works to good effect.
Brilliant use of electronics on ESU chips. Can I do the same with my Lenz and Zimo chips? Will the ESU software read/write to Lenz and Zimo, do you know? Thanks a lot, Keith
Hi Keith, I think you can do the same with Zimo and probably lenz too. The ESU LokProgrammer only recognises ESU chips. and I think the Zimo hardware has similar limitations. You can use a JMRI with a SPROG to program all your chips, but be warned it is a lengthy process for each chip and you can only update/replace the sound files with the manufacturers own kit . For this any many other reasons, we standardised on one chip family, ESU and their programmer, to reduce programming time, cut down silly mistakes and reduce our knowledge load by only having to think about one family of DCC chips.
David
This is a great video and I also use Stickswipe's kits to add/modify the lighting on my locos. The only question I have about your programming is: how would this work if you were MU'ing/double-heading (OR push-pull)? Would you still be able to only have the rear locos tail lights on without invoking the "parking lights"?
Keep up the good work - I really enjoy watching (and learning) the techy side of what you guys are doing.
Hello Chris,
Some good questions there. We don't have any push pull trains. We would have to change the function key assignments as we have configured F8 to turn on the tail lights either with headlights or both sets of tails without the heads. In your scenario, we would need to allow tail lights at one end only and no headlights when pushing and the opposite in the other direction. This could be done as we have separated out the four lights physically.
For double heading, we don't reply on consisting in the DCC sense. If we were to run a double headed train around the layout, we rely onTrainController, which performs a virtual consist in the sense that it know how to drive each loco at say 10 MPH and 20 MPH and so on. The beauty of this is that we can "Consist" any pair of locos on the layout and they would run fine together.
Logically we would turn the function headlights on for just the front loco, so it would look right. However, I believe TrainController only sends function keys for the front Loco, but we have not explored this aspect fully yet. I believe it would give us some problems with the sound functions of Heavy load, coast and mute for the second loco. Something to be explored..
Regards
David
Thanks for a very informative video. Presumably all of the standard ESU chips would need the Lais adaptor boards for the functionality you have shown. It would be useful to see one of those fitted (and how to), as this would save buying new chips. Presumably it would also be a question of checking for sufficient space to fit the additional adaptor board.
Dave
Hi Dave, No . The Lais adapter board is required for when you want to replace an 8-pin socket with a 21pin socket.
If you have an 8-pin model and want Aux 1 and Aux 2 you can achieve it without changing the PCB/motherboard. The Aux1 is wired to a 8-Pin DCC socket - Its the green wire. The Aux 2 has to be wired to the chip directly. It is fiddly but can be done. We'll show an 8-pin adaptation in a later video.
I've rechassis'd a Replica Railways Class 45 with a homemade chassis using Bachmann running gear and a Lais adapter board, I'm now realising, that with the information you're provided here, I can also wire in independently operated lighting. 👍
@@dattouk Cheers. Thanks for the extra info. Dave
Nice work, are there documented notes anywhere to refer to? Looking at the size of this layout makes me envious!
Always good to make sure other wires are out of the way when soldering as at least 1 yellow had a bit of melted insulation from the iron although appreciate doing it for filming introduces issues. I know space is tight but Id always recommend using a 'helping hands' to hold 2 wires to be soldered together because just soldering across them them freehand can result in a weak joint or worse, a dry joint.
Thanks for the tips.
Hi David - in one of the previous videos, one of the team members mentioned that the sound of the locomotives can be muted automatically after the locomotive is stationary for a while - can you share with us how to achive this on our v5 Loksound decoders? - Thanks
Hi Shelton, the best way is to use the LokSound mute function and set the mute volume to be say 10 or 12. Make it on an easily accessible key. As we run the trains into the station with TrainController, it can be programmed to mute the Loco when it is idle and to un-mute it just before it pulls away.
@@dattouk Thank you very much for the reply and the tips. Regards Shelton from Australia
Hello David,
I am wondering what the NAME or perhaps STYLE of DATABASE you have got with your layout, I know it is FILE MAKER, I have been searching RUclips for a DATABASE that is something like what you have, even though there is some NAMEs that I have no idea what these are but for now this is not my problem, as every OTHER RUclips I have seen here online is only DESCRIBING about Names and Addresses and/or AGE, for a OFFICE and their DATABASE of EMPLORERS contacts. Most have used RELATIONSHIPS that have 1 or 2 TABLEs that are joined together and are able to be moved around, THIS IS not what I am wanting.
Thanks Graeme
Hello Graeme, it is the same system. Unfortunately, most database applications are about names, addresses and stock codes. I am afraid there are no obvious examples out there for you to follow. I can assure you that it does work with more that 1 or 2 relationships.
David
@@dattouk Thanks for your reply
Bfn Graeme
And I should have mentioned how useful Kapton tape is to prevent solder bridging across to adjacent IC contacts which are close together, such as my N gauge models. Keith
Thanks Keith.. I might go and buy 2 or 3 rolls just to make sure we don't blow any more chips up.
And it's not even a teeny teeny tiny .2mm tip on the soldering iron. If I tried that it would need much more than a scrape with the end of the tweezers to ensure I'd not connected the pins together! Would be nice if there was more of a physical barrier between the pads, but that'd add even more to the cost of chips.
Agreed.. its not for the faint hearted. Pete uses a DM4 digital microscope. its called the Digital Electronic Microscope 1000x 2.0mp Dm4 on Amazon... It makes everything a lot easier.
@@dattouk Thought that said electron microscope for a second!
Hi there your video is really good. I have checked on the link you supplied and unfortunately the seller does not ship to New Zealand 😕, which is rather vexing. The other thing is I can't write to the seller either, finding Bachmann class 20, 37 & 45/46 directional lighting is a pain, Ebay doesn't offer this facility. 😢. Can I buy through you? I know it's a bit of an ask but I thought I would ask just in case. Thank you for any help you guys can offer. Cheers 🍻
Guy,
Surely you can connect with Jason at Stickswipe through the ebay "ask a question" on any of his products, give him the quantity required and get a UK price and then ask him to email me and cc you in. If we can help we will.
Regards
David
@@dattouk hi David 👋cheers for that I will, keep up the good work 💪
Boy I’m glad I only do early steam
Yes. That is so true..... We tried adding a fake firebox glow from the tender to light up the steam loco cab. Didn't work very well.
I think Hornby will sit on their laurels for some time yet in raising the functionality of tgeir loco lights.....i just get that gut feeling yet Accura Dapol Heljan Bachmann are looking at ways of constant improvement.....
Some are and some are not... Heljan and Bachman don't have to reengineer their models to provide the enhancements, just update the Motherboard PCBS. They have made constant revisions over the last 15 years, but smarter DCC lighting doesn't appear to figure much.
Maybe I missed this from a much earlier video, but how is McKinley Railway funded? There must be tens of thousands of pounds of railway components within the house.
I was wondering the same, especially as (unlike a lot of other channels) there is no plugging of patron or plea for donations. I can only assume that its form David's personal wealth be that through investments, early retirement on a decent pension or a huge win on the lottery, and as such is private. I would also assume that if you have such a huge fleet and needed to purchase 100's of decoders or lighting modules it puts you in a good position to negotiate bulk discount at wholesale rates, but we are still talking considerable sums of money. I'm just thankful that David and his team have the resources in both time and money to develop McKinley, and Charlie is able document it's progress so we can all enjoy it.
Isn't everybodies house like that? 😉👍
Boys...My mum told me its rude to ask questions like that... All I can say is it is a lot cheaper than vintage racing cars and yachts. I like Chris' response.
@@dattouk Hence my comment that its personal... I can see why David asked though, when you start talking about upgrading 200+ locos at even £10 a pop you don't need a degree to workout the cost of such a project. The thing is my mother (god rest her sole) used to say " if you got it flaunt it".... :)
The quantity thing was to demonstrate the folly of doing it. It seemed like a good idea at the time to keep everyone occupied, but golly it was a light too far to misquote a famous metaphor. The time and effort has been inordinate. Never mind... We are there now..
b.t.w I have come across a huge numbers of modeller who have nearly 1/3 the stock levels of McKinley and don't even have a railway to run it on. At least everything will have a home track on mcKinley. :-)
interesting but complicated can you write here in the comments I started writing then got muddled thank you if you can do it.
Need to be a bit more careful when using the pulling on the wires, when he was working on the Class 47 he broke the wire insulation and left bare stands open underneath the chip.
I'm surprised you didn't upgrade all the speakers in the models at the same time.
Hi Martin,
Thanks for the spot on the wire.. I'll check that out. Its easily done. Luckily the chips appear to be relatively forgiving. We have precious few casualties.
Re the speaker. Its interesting. Why would we upgrade the speakers? What benefit would there be?
@@dattouk the difference in sound quality between the older style speakers without a sealed enclosure and the new smaller sealed speakers is amazing. Have a look at a company called Road and Rails, he specialises in speaker upgrades for sound fitted locos. I believe your video editor Charlie Bishop has recently upgraded a few of his.
Also, would it be possible to put very thin sleeving on the wire at that point in case for some reason the wires touch?
@@trainmanbob to repair damaged insulation? Yes, a sleeve of heat shrink tube would be perfect. In the same way that heat shrink was used to cover the solder connection where the wire was extended.
@@martinfinbow2120 Agree about the speaker upgrade. Did an upgrade onClass 20 using a Roads and Rails double I phone slim - ruclips.net/video/qgAZSHO-Yns/видео.html. Amazing improvement
Dave
Didn't understand a word of it.