Gents, it seems the King watched this video and beards are now allowed in the British army! Thanks for everyone's input... - www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13250981/Army-British-soldiers-grow-beard-King-Charles-military-chiefs-permission-end-ban.html
My grandfather Robert Bonela was a pioneer sergeant in the black watch during WWII. He marched at the head of the parade and was paid an extra shilling a week for keeping his long black beard. His dress uniform was similar to the Dewars piper pictured on the label. He was decorated for getting ropes across a swollen Italian river in order to evacuate the wounded back to friendly lines. His medals are in the regimental museum at Balhousie castle in Perth.
Greetings from a retired Assault Pioneer from the 2nd Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment. Our speciality like mentioned was to be trained up from within the Infantry Battalion into the Support company as a Senior Soldier to construct and advise on the strengthening of positions, constructing defenses, demolitions, mines, bobby traps, watercraft and breaching defenses. Was a tough job and from memory the Sergeant is still authorised to have a beard.
As stated earlier horses were “dispatched” by the Regimental Farrier hence the blade and spike that they carry. It was not the leg but the horse’s hoof that was removed and carried the horse’s number.
My Grandad was a pioneer sergeant who first served in the early years of world war 2 in the deserts of North Africa. He was then sent up to the north of Scotland and trained with commandos. On D day 1944 he and his coy. landed on sword beach within the the first landings. As a young lad in the early sixties and seventies he told me many war stories of his service. My hero. Thank you for this video, not a glamour reg. like paras. etc. but had there share of mud and blood.
I was an Assault Pioneer in the RPC. It was a specialist course that we had to complete to wear the crossed axes badge. Brilliant qualification to have in the Military gets you some cracking jobs. Only ever saw one beard when i was in Bicester with 23 PNR. Great for tradition but not practical in the field. Unless you are trying to blend in with the locals 😂
Royal Marines Arctic & Mountain Cadre are permitted beards, apparently. I always thought that shaving in the field without the proper amenities was foolish, as it could lead to infection. However, there is the respirator issue too. That is the only problem I can see.
A story from my grandfather who went through British army infantry training in 1943 was that the threat of being sent to the pioneers was used by the training staff to motivate recruits into meeting the standards! (From memory, he spoke of an attached platoon or company designated 'P' for pioneers, which is where said slackers and scoundrels ended up who were deemed 'only good enough for manual labour')
That's what we were told in the British army. New respirators work fine with a beard though and let's be honest, if we entered a war with a real cbrn theat, I'm sure the lads would shave it off if it was an issue.
Serving in the British Army in the 1980s we were told that beards made it difficult to wear a respirator. Came across quite a few Chunkies whilst serving in the R.A.O.C. Great bunch of lads.
Very enjoyable, thank you. My late father was a national service man (1950 - 1952) and served in the Royal Pioneer Corps where he became a sergeant. I am very proud of this fact.
Very enjoyable, thanks mate. Im not too sure on the beards though. I think nuclear biological and chemical warfare training with the respirator would be a serious problem.
Moustaches and Beards are vital as I found during my service in the RAF fortunately one of the services renowned for the handlebar moustache. Back in the mid 70s when just about every film actor was donning a Mexican or a Selleck we had peer pressure on our side. I looked in the mirror and realised I looked far too young and I needed to grow a tache and the RAF almost flew on them. How else was I going to scare the enemy! Fortunately with me being in the RAF and a tradesmen, We weren't on the parade square every day where the possibility of a swooping Eagle-eyed S.W.O looking over his men, would tell anyone to wipe that b-fluff from their top lip. To anyone who surreptitiously was trying to procure one! So my moustache came into being a full Selleck and kept totally clear of the top lip. still proudly kept today, 44 years later despite so called friends and in laws telling me to shave it off as I will look younger to which my wife politely told them you ain't seen him without it. No it stays! She declared menacingly! Bless her! So I hope the Army follow the Navy and the RAF and allow facial hair as I am sure when young men who trying to find their way and identity in life will find them really scaring the enemy as we did in that Cold War period!!
Entertaining and informative! Going back to an earlier video about physical training in the British army during the nineteenth century; I would like to see research on: Bayonet drill Bayonet Fencing Treatment of PTSD during the 19th century. The reason for my interest in this gruesome area is that infantry needed to close and win by Bayonet during the nineteenth century.... most of the time.
Having at least a moustache, if not a full beard, was compulsory in many British regiments, up until the Great War (WW I). Clean shaving was introduced, as a standard, so that gas masks could be fitted properly. After gas attacks started in that conflict.
I was an assault pioneer in the RGJ. Instead of utilising my new found knowledge on explosives and other basic engineers tasks, all we were deemed useful for was digging trenches and carrying a prefrab bridge; neither covered in the course. LOL.
It's one of the oldest recorded military trades across the world, the original pioneers took alot of stick through the years but are a proud bunch ,work hard and much travelled, I enjoyed my years with 187 tancred coy royal pioneer corp
Beards can be good, but a of men's beards look rubbish, particularly under the age of 30. They are discussing allowing beards in the Army (already allowed in the Royal Navy and RAF), but I'm kind of torn on it. I think a lot of them will just look scruffy.
I remember when watching the movie "The Alamo" in the final assault on the place itself I saw a group of bearded soldiers carrying heavy axes and I wondered who they were at the time. Now I have some idea as to whom they are. So thanks for that, friend. It's something I had forgotten about till now. Nice video.
@@redcoathistory---TBH I don't know. You would have to look it up yourself. But I do know that the Mexicans were using British made guns. It's been suggested that Colonel Travis was killed by a British Baker Rifle. And your welcome.
I was always told that beards, including stubble, affected the seal on the respirator so consequently were not allowed and in a war where nbc weapons were anticipated even the pioneers would have to lose their beards.
When I commanded Support Company in an infantry battalion in the NZ army some years ago one of the specialist platoons was the assault pioneer platoon. Their role was essentially demolitions, advising and leading in mine and booby trap clearance and improvised bridging and other light engineering tasks. None of my pioneer sergeants in my time grew beards, but the tradition was regularly discussed by those holding the post.
Thanks a lot. Out of interest, I am looking to do. video looking at the history of Maori soldiers. . . Do you know anyone you think I should interview?
The pioneer's and catering corps are two of the most underrated regiments, not glamorous but essential and surprisingly unappreciated they are two backbones of the army.
Hi Chris, Thanks for this video that included the Pioneers. I had known for some time of the French Pioneers. We catch Pioneers in the wagon train days in the movies. How the West Was Won shows a glimpse of men clearing the way before the wagon train. In John Wayne's Alamo, they show Pioneer Mexican troops. We also have records of Josiah Gregg cutting a path through the Texas Cross Timbers in his new southern route for the Santa Fe Trail. Pioneers were also used to reduce the slopes at stream crossing. While it was not mentioned much, the Mormon Battalion had pioneer duties as they made their way from Santa Fe to California during the war with Mexico.
As fascinated as I am by Pioneers, my view is that it would make more sense to split the role and have assault pioneers majoring on doing shock assaults, explosive entries and mining de-mining (which is how the germans deployed them in WW2. A three man assault pioneer team managed to capture a huge swaithe of the Majanow? Line in france when they found a way into the underground network. At the same time I would adopt the American Naval unit CBEB from world war 2 which generally consisted of trades persons carpenters brick layers artisans plumbers etc. they tended to be older guys from the civilian world who were practical. They were supported by young lads who were fit enough to do the labouring, but as a unit it was incredibly successfull (probably super chilled and laid back too because it was manned by predominantly older guys). But, failing that dividing assault pioneer platoons in to two with one half focussing on assault sections and the other focussed on construction and pioneering, in my view would be the way to go. By the way pioneer comes from the french word pion meaning on foot. The British army copied the French army.
Hi Chris, just a quick comment on beards and blacksmithing. In the 70's I earned my living welding up the rust buckets produced by Vauxhall and British Leyland, and, you guessed it, I had, and still have a full beard.The problem is that working with metal and flame, sparks are a fact of life and it is easy to set a beard on fire! I used to keep a pan of water by me to "dunk" my face in when that smell of singed hair wafted up my nose. All was fine until one winter, while working outside, my pan of water froze, so, when dousing the singe, I split my eyebrows and had 14 stitches, more that I ever got playing rugby, and a 4 hour wait in A&E plus an explanation to a very skeptical nurse! So to anyone with a beard thinking of either welding or similar work, maybe a shave might be a good idea, or maybe just check your water ain't frozen!
My great grandfather was a pioneer in the Dubs, Royal Dublin Fusileers, at Gallipoli. He got his role as he was carpenter as a civvy and a Sergent in the Boer war with the 1st Wilts. My understanding was he was responsible for trench support and infrastructure etc. No beard but a splendid tash.
3:50 I'm questioning why you suggest the picture denotes a Lance Sergeant rather than a Pioneer Buck Sergeant as he clearly has the crown and crossed axes above 3 stripes. A Lance Sergeant would have 2 stripes not unlike a Corporal but a crown and Axes as well. At least that is what I've seemed to ascertain from the information during the Victorian Age of British Military Ranks. A Lance Corporal is 1 stripe a Corporal is 2, but a Lance Sergeant is merely a title given to one acting in the position of a Sergeant while everything else is put in order. A Lance Sergeant wouldn't be the equivalent to a Corporal it would be one rank between Sergeant and and Corporal. In the USArmy although not authorized beards per-se' "Pioneers" are called Sappers. The Sapper Tab is one of 5 tabs authorized in the USArmy (Special Forces, Ranger, Ariborne, Sappers, and Presidents100 ). Beards are authorized during field action and most Tier 1 military units for the time being.
We had one of those axes on our farm in the 1970s. It had a spike on the heel though and I remember my father telling me they used it to kill cavalry horses long ago , I was too young to show further interest .My grandfather used it to kill the cattle in the little slaughterhouse we had.. I have no way of knowing the story of its origins, but I wonder if it belonged to my ancestor.💂🏼♀️☘️☠️
@@0010303 90s for me.. We would need to return to the WWI bag over the head an tuck in, with crossed fingers type respirator. Should be beards be allowed. Relaxing rules for tattoos are one thing due to the recruitment crisis. Tats are unlikely to get you killed. The same cannot be said for beards.
Police Scotland recently decreed in their uniform policy that officers had to be clean shaven. A reason offered was that stubble would adversely affect the efficiency of a respirator. But the LGQBT brigade complained, as women who pretend to be men might want to take hormones to promote facial hair, as a way of strengthening the delusion that they were indeed police men. Not women. So the policy was binned.
Seems like in the late Victorian era there were no grooming standards in regards to facial hair. The period I regularly portray, 1746-1781, clean shaven was the norm!
Is the main reason for smooth faces to ensure gas masks fit properly? I know a friend who works removing asbestos has to be clean shaven for the correct fitting of the PPE.
There's another outlook. The skirmishers who became Special Forces were not alone. If the enemy had done a proper job, bridging and similar units would be needed as a fairly high priority, and finding useable launch sites falls to engineer specialists out ahead of the main force. At Agincourt, we find Henry V's childhood chums, Fluellen (Llewellyn) prepping the battlefield. A river runs through it. Jobs like that. John Chard at Rourke's Drift
When I lived in Gib I was told that in the navy, you can have a beard but you can’t be on display until it’s an actual fully grown beard, it’s not as if it makes you any less a fighter🤷♂️
I'm not a serving soldier but I was under the impression that beards were banned due to the problem of getting a good seal on a gas mask. If they have replaced the S6 with some form of 'hood' beards would not be an issue, if not I am not sure I'd want a beard given the goings on in Ukraine.
New Zealand Army is brining in beards in the next 18 months. As a 30-year career soldier, I applaud the move. It’s 2024, beards are in vogue, if needed (CBRN etc) you can shave them off! Plus it saves money, time and having a sore face 😂
Hi mate - I can't claim to know the answer for sure - as Infantry regiments didn't have farriers (as far as i know) I suppose infantry pioneers would be roped in to help?
The story I've heard about beards and pioneers, During the building of the Crystal Palace in 1851 it was the Royal Engineers who built it using a company of pioneers. Because it was intended to be a temporary structure, no one knew if it would stand up to the massive crowds that where expected to pass through it during the 1851 Exposition. When it was finished a company of pioneers was tasked with marching up and down the inside of the Palace to see if the building could take the stress. If the Palace couldn't take the stress then this company would have been showered with crashing glass and steel beams. It past with flying colours. However Queen Victoria arrived early in the morning to see the Palace before the crowd arrived. The soldiers hadn't had time to shave and after she reviewed them, she gave them the right to not shave. I'm not sure if this is a true story of not. But you never know.
Ex-RAF, 1982-2004...We were told we had to be clean shaven so our gas-masks would seal on our faces. Do they even do NBC in the British forces now? We used have to do the gas-chamber at least once a year.
The army is not like the RAF [GREAT PEOPLE] or NAVY [GREAT PEOPLE] as they may have to face gas, fire etc on the battle field whilst they are fighting where breathing is vip so masks may have to be worn
When dictated by operational requirements, the navy have to be clean shaven to allow correct fit of the gas mask. Thought I could get away with a quick trim last time I went in the chamber, found out the hard way that it doesn’t work.
The US Marines have been issuing no shave waivers for years. It's for men whose skin can't handle daily shaving. They did allow a Sikh to graduate with his beard. I was always under the impression that it interferes with gas masks. I did recently hear that it doesn't. Personally, I wouldn't want to put that to the test. No thanks, I'll shave.
Beards are ok but the reason to not have one is so the gas mask can make a better seal. I saw a Sikh Officer cadet come out of a gas chamber coughing from the CS gas he inhaled. But it's worth noting that although beard have been banned by the British army since the 1700s, in the Crimean war They grew very long ones.
As an ex-serviceman my understanding of why we were not allowed beards was that a clean shaven face makes a good seal with your respirator (gas mask) this makes me wonder about the reasoning for the change . If you wanted to grow a mustache you could but you needed the permission of your CO.
I say thumbs up on the Beards. As long as you can get a good seal with your gas mask. Im retired US Navy Submarine Service. They let us grow beards when we were at Sea. Pioneers are bad ass Dudes. At the Battle of the Alamo ,Santa Anna had these mean Hombres with the axes and Aprons. And they were the ones that went in at the end. And remember Hitler was gassed in WW1 , and claimed he couldn’t get a seal which resulted in him having that stupid short mustache
Completely wrong about chopping hooves from fallen horses. Firstly, pioneers are infantrymen so not many horses kicking around in those FOOT battalions. Secondly, it was the farriers of the cavalry regiments that performed this task and farriers can still be identified in the Household Cavalry Mounted Regiment today by them carrying axes on parade instead of sabres.(and shaped differently to a wood axe of the infantry pioneers - also have a spike on the reverse to finish off injured mounts).
I don't have problem with beards but as many men with beards look scruffy and unkempt I don't want to see my beloved British Army looking scruffy. I always believed from my experience with the British Army it is for the practical reasons of having a tight seal on a gas mask. I don't see why these days when it's easy to shave you would bring it in unless it has to do with a certain religious group that is known for beards. In this Woke world I believe that's the real reason and when have the powers that be ever really cared about our forces. If you want a beard then don't join up END OFF.
I remember this notion, the French pioneers were excluded from shaving because their life was so short and brutal that it was useless to waste time in shaving, better to enjoy that little free time to the fullest
Personally I'd be against permitting the wearing of beards. They look scruffy. The Army looks scruffy enough since the demise of the battalion tailor shops and the Master Stitch (as the Master Tailor was known) and it's not uncommon to see soldiers wearing ill-fitting uniforms these days. If you don't believe me, ask yourself when you last saw a smart looking uniformed police officer. It seems that virtually every copper has a beard now and uniform that belongs to someone else. If beards are allowed for all and sundry, then the Army will soon look the same.
I'm also not a fan of the beards, the Canadian Army allows them now (which has now removed all hair regulations...) which makes the military look extremely sloppy
we looked scruffy as the clothing store allocations were crap eg 12 pairs of lightweight trousers per month for a unit , if everyone trashed a pair on exercise it would take you a year to get them changed. Wasted hours at the clothing store with a useless chit only to find out the allocation was gone . You could see the piles of stock on the shelves . There was a stampede to the cleaning rag bag from stores as the senior ranks used to change kit that was in perfect condition unlike ours. Best example of poor kit allocation was when a soldier was asked by Margret Thatcher if there was anything they needed in N.I. he said he could not get any army socks. She posted him some within a week !
Try putting on respirator, in a nbc/cbrn environment and surviving if have a beard. Beard shave off in 9 seconds ? If you never served in the military you have no idea what I am talking about.
Gents, it seems the King watched this video and beards are now allowed in the British army! Thanks for everyone's input... - www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13250981/Army-British-soldiers-grow-beard-King-Charles-military-chiefs-permission-end-ban.html
My grandfather Robert Bonela was a pioneer sergeant in the black watch during WWII. He marched at the head of the parade and was paid an extra shilling a week for keeping his long black beard. His dress uniform was similar to the Dewars piper pictured on the label. He was decorated for getting ropes across a swollen Italian river in order to evacuate the wounded back to friendly lines. His medals are in the regimental museum at Balhousie castle in Perth.
Fantastic story - thanks for sharing!
Greetings from a retired Assault Pioneer from the 2nd Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment. Our speciality like mentioned was to be trained up from within the Infantry Battalion into the Support company as a Senior Soldier to construct and advise on the strengthening of positions, constructing defenses, demolitions, mines, bobby traps, watercraft and breaching defenses. Was a tough job and from memory the Sergeant is still authorised to have a beard.
Thanks mate - appreciate hearing from you. Hope retirment is going well.
Ex Maggot from 2RAR here, stay up my Brother
As stated earlier horses were “dispatched” by the Regimental Farrier hence the blade and spike that they carry. It was not the leg but the horse’s hoof that was removed and carried the horse’s number.
My Grandad was a pioneer sergeant who first served in the early years of world war 2 in the deserts of North Africa. He was then sent up to the north of Scotland and trained with commandos. On D day 1944 he and his coy. landed on sword beach within the the first landings. As a young lad in the early sixties and seventies he told me many war stories of his service. My hero. Thank you for this video, not a glamour reg. like paras. etc. but had there share of mud and blood.
Thanks Mark - he sounds like a brilliant bloke and hard as nails. It's great you are keeping his memory alive.
They were big, strong, and tough career soldiers who carried axes.
Nobody wanted to tell them to shave.
And if they WERE told to shave, they would have shaved with their axes. 😝
@lyndoncmp5751 Bloody right! I meant that figuratively.
@@davidcarr7436
😂👍
I was an Assault Pioneer in the RPC. It was a specialist course that we had to complete to wear the crossed axes badge. Brilliant qualification to have in the Military gets you some cracking jobs. Only ever saw one beard when i was in Bicester with 23 PNR. Great for tradition but not practical in the field. Unless you are trying to blend in with the locals 😂
Pioneer here as well from Aussie. I have a cousin in Canada who is also a Pioneer. We should start a club Brother of the Axe. 😁😁
Rapidly becoming one of my favorite channels. Btw, the book "Black Redcoats" isn't yet available in the states. I'll have to wait!
Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully the book will be out any day soon. All the best and keep in touch.
Royal Marines Arctic & Mountain Cadre are permitted beards, apparently. I always thought that shaving in the field without the proper amenities was foolish, as it could lead to infection. However, there is the respirator issue too. That is the only problem I can see.
That makes sense thanks mate
A story from my grandfather who went through British army infantry training in 1943 was that the threat of being sent to the pioneers was used by the training staff to motivate recruits into meeting the standards! (From memory, he spoke of an attached platoon or company designated 'P' for pioneers, which is where said slackers and scoundrels ended up who were deemed 'only good enough for manual labour')
That was the RASC. Assault Pioneers are a platoon within the Infantry Battalion.
The only reason I can think of for forbidding beards is they might interfere with NBC gear.
That's the reason they told us in the U.S. Army.
That's what we were told in the British army. New respirators work fine with a beard though and let's be honest, if we entered a war with a real cbrn theat, I'm sure the lads would shave it off if it was an issue.
lol
Serving in the British Army in the 1980s we were told that beards made it difficult to wear a respirator. Came across quite a few Chunkies whilst serving in the R.A.O.C. Great bunch of lads.
@davidyoung5830 on the old ones maybe but the gsr?
I’m loving the short info vids Chris.
That's great thanks a lot. I'm hoping to mix up long and short videos.
Really enjoying these short sharp info videos 👍
Very enjoyable, thank you. My late father was a national service man (1950 - 1952) and served in the Royal Pioneer Corps where he became a sergeant. I am very proud of this fact.
Very enjoyable, thanks mate. Im not too sure on the beards though. I think nuclear biological and chemical warfare training with the respirator would be a serious problem.
Moustaches and Beards are vital as I found during my service in the RAF fortunately one of the services renowned for the handlebar moustache.
Back in the mid 70s when just about every film actor was donning a Mexican or a Selleck we had peer pressure on our side. I looked in the mirror and realised I looked far too young and I needed to grow a tache and the RAF almost flew on them. How else was I going to scare the enemy! Fortunately with me being in the RAF and a tradesmen, We weren't on the parade square every day where the possibility of a swooping Eagle-eyed S.W.O looking over his men, would tell anyone to wipe that b-fluff from their top lip. To anyone who surreptitiously was trying to procure one! So my moustache came into being a full Selleck and kept totally clear of the top lip. still proudly kept today, 44 years later despite so called friends and in laws telling me to shave it off as I will look younger to which my wife politely told them you ain't seen him without it. No it stays! She declared menacingly! Bless her! So I hope the Army follow the Navy and the RAF and allow facial hair as I am sure when young men who trying to find their way and identity in life will find them really scaring the enemy as we did in that Cold War period!!
Behave,raf only scare champagne bottles mate😉🫡
Entertaining and informative!
Going back to an earlier video about physical training in the British army during the nineteenth century; I would like to see research on:
Bayonet drill
Bayonet Fencing
Treatment of PTSD during the 19th century.
The reason for my interest in this gruesome area is that infantry needed to close and win by Bayonet during the nineteenth century.... most of the time.
Having at least a moustache, if not a full beard, was compulsory in many British regiments, up until the Great War (WW I). Clean shaving was introduced, as a standard, so that gas masks could be fitted properly. After gas attacks started in that conflict.
I was an assault pioneer in the RGJ. Instead of utilising my new found knowledge on explosives and other basic engineers tasks, all we were deemed useful for was digging trenches and carrying a prefrab bridge; neither covered in the course. LOL.
It's one of the oldest recorded military trades across the world, the original pioneers took alot of stick through the years but are a proud bunch ,work hard and much travelled, I enjoyed my years with 187 tancred coy royal pioneer corp
Excellent episode, thank you Chris!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks mate
Beards can be good, but a of men's beards look rubbish, particularly under the age of 30. They are discussing allowing beards in the Army (already allowed in the Royal Navy and RAF), but I'm kind of torn on it. I think a lot of them will just look scruffy.
The Forces will have to pay for beard transplants then
Beardy weirdo's!
RPC God bless the Chunkies👍
I remember when watching the movie "The Alamo" in the final assault on the place itself I saw a group of bearded soldiers carrying heavy axes and I wondered who they were at the time. Now I have some idea as to whom they are. So thanks for that, friend. It's something I had forgotten about till now. Nice video.
Lovely thanks - I must watch that film! If there was Britis there I could do a film on the Alamo...any Brits you know of with the Texans?
@@redcoathistory---TBH I don't know. You would have to look it up yourself. But I do know that the Mexicans were using British made guns. It's been suggested that Colonel Travis was killed by a British Baker Rifle. And your welcome.
@@redcoathistory---And your welcome
@@redcoathistory---I don't know really. You would have to look it up yourself. But I heard that a Baker Rifle might have killed Colonel Travis.
I was always told that beards, including stubble, affected the seal on the respirator so consequently were not allowed and in a war where nbc weapons were anticipated even the pioneers would have to lose their beards.
When I commanded Support Company in an infantry battalion in the NZ army some years ago one of the specialist platoons was the assault pioneer platoon. Their role was essentially demolitions, advising and leading in mine and booby trap clearance and improvised bridging and other light engineering tasks. None of my pioneer sergeants in my time grew beards, but the tradition was regularly discussed by those holding the post.
Thanks a lot. Out of interest, I am looking to do. video looking at the history of Maori soldiers. . . Do you know anyone you think I should interview?
The pioneer's and catering corps are two of the most underrated regiments, not glamorous but essential and surprisingly unappreciated they are two backbones of the army.
Hi Chris,
Thanks for this video that included the Pioneers.
I had known for some time of the French Pioneers.
We catch Pioneers in the wagon train days in the movies.
How the West Was Won shows a glimpse of men
clearing the way before the wagon train.
In John Wayne's Alamo, they show Pioneer Mexican troops.
We also have records of Josiah Gregg cutting a path
through the Texas Cross Timbers in his new southern route
for the Santa Fe Trail.
Pioneers were also used to reduce the slopes at stream crossing.
While it was not mentioned much, the Mormon Battalion
had pioneer duties as they made their way from Santa Fe
to California during the war with Mexico.
Thanks a lot. Appreciate the info.
As fascinated as I am by Pioneers, my view is that it would make more sense to split the role and have assault pioneers majoring on doing shock assaults, explosive entries and mining de-mining (which is how the germans deployed them in WW2. A three man assault pioneer team managed to capture a huge swaithe of the Majanow? Line in france when they found a way into the underground network.
At the same time I would adopt the American Naval unit CBEB from world war 2 which generally consisted of trades persons carpenters brick layers artisans plumbers etc. they tended to be older guys from the civilian world who were practical. They were supported by young lads who were fit enough to do the labouring, but as a unit it was incredibly successfull (probably super chilled and laid back too because it was manned by predominantly older guys).
But, failing that dividing assault pioneer platoons in to two with one half focussing on assault sections and the other focussed on construction and pioneering, in my view would be the way to go. By the way pioneer comes from the french word pion meaning on foot. The British army copied the French army.
Not just gents watching your videos, Chris. I enjoy you and the History Chap!
Thanks - I say "gents" for a bit of fun as according to my analytics 99 percent of viewers are men...But you are very welcome!
The photo of the lance sergeant, is that an early version of the Medal of Honor that he is wearing?
Hi Chris, just a quick comment on beards and blacksmithing. In the 70's I earned my living welding up the rust buckets produced by Vauxhall and British Leyland, and, you guessed it, I had, and still have a full beard.The problem is that working with metal and flame, sparks are a fact of life and it is easy to set a beard on fire! I used to keep a pan of water by me to "dunk" my face in when that smell of singed hair wafted up my nose. All was fine until one winter, while working outside, my pan of water froze, so, when dousing the singe, I split my eyebrows and had 14 stitches, more that I ever got playing rugby, and a 4 hour wait in A&E plus an explanation to a very skeptical nurse! So to anyone with a beard thinking of either welding or similar work, maybe a shave might be a good idea, or maybe just check your water ain't frozen!
Thanks for sharing. A good lesson learned!
Have you seen the pic of 2 Canadian Pioneers in Yugoslavia in the 1990's? Huge beards and meme calls the lumberjack commandos
Never mind you show the picture lol
Brilliant Chris another great production
Thanks mate - it was your idea so thanks for that!
My great grandfather was a pioneer in the Dubs, Royal Dublin Fusileers, at Gallipoli. He got his role as he was carpenter as a civvy and a Sergent in the Boer war with the 1st Wilts.
My understanding was he was responsible for trench support and infrastructure etc.
No beard but a splendid tash.
Thanks. ✌🏻👊🏼
My new favourite channel
@@FrankieSaunders-os7lz Thanks a lot mate - I hope you continue to enjoy. Lots of interesting stuff in the pipeline.
When i tried to grow a beard it just made me look like i live behind the bins in Tesco car park.
Ha Ha yep me too.
A major problem with beards is that they can interfere with the sealing of gas masks.
3:50 I'm questioning why you suggest the picture denotes a Lance Sergeant rather than a Pioneer Buck Sergeant as he clearly has the crown and crossed axes above 3 stripes. A Lance Sergeant would have 2 stripes not unlike a Corporal but a crown and Axes as well. At least that is what I've seemed to ascertain from the information during the Victorian Age of British Military Ranks. A Lance Corporal is 1 stripe a Corporal is 2, but a Lance Sergeant is merely a title given to one acting in the position of a Sergeant while everything else is put in order. A Lance Sergeant wouldn't be the equivalent to a Corporal it would be one rank between Sergeant and and Corporal.
In the USArmy although not authorized beards per-se' "Pioneers" are called Sappers. The Sapper Tab is one of 5 tabs authorized in the USArmy (Special Forces, Ranger, Ariborne, Sappers, and Presidents100 ). Beards are authorized during field action and most Tier 1 military units for the time being.
Hi mate - according to the caption a Guards sergeant would have had three gold stripes - a Lance sergeant three white stripes.
Here in NZ beards are mandatory for our Special Forces units about to be deployed to Muslim countries.
Beards look good, uniform looks good, can’t believe it’s taken this long!
I’m not a Sikh but I am seeking love, you reckon they’d let me keep my moustache? 😂😅
That's because the military cares about function, not looks. Beard? Don't bother with a gas mask. The mask won't seal. Nice knowing you. 👋
Er the current uniform is more teli tubby outfit than uniform!
@@anthonyhargis6855 disproven but ok
@@MrConna6 Former military here, not disproven.
Very cool traditional, Pioneer Sgts are always well respected by all troops.
pioneer were common in most armies. the foreign legion still has personal who wear leather aprons on parade.
And sport big beards and axes, 😁
Yep those lads do get a hat tip at the end of the film
Pioners clear the way, airborn all the way!👍👍👍
We had one of those axes on our farm in the 1970s. It had a spike on the heel though and I remember my father telling me they used it to kill cavalry horses long ago , I was too young to show further interest .My grandfather used it to kill the cattle in the little slaughterhouse we had.. I have no way of knowing the story of its origins, but I wonder if it belonged to my ancestor.💂🏼♀️☘️☠️
I thought beards effect the seal on a respirator?
They do. 2-3 days of stubble compromises the seal. So we always were very careful with shaving on the day we did the CS Gas tent.
@@Yandarval yeh that’s what I remember. Granted i got out in 2011 so I’m sure plenty has changed
@@0010303 90s for me.. We would need to return to the WWI bag over the head an tuck in, with crossed fingers type respirator. Should be beards be allowed. Relaxing rules for tattoos are one thing due to the recruitment crisis. Tats are unlikely to get you killed. The same cannot be said for beards.
@@Yandarval yeh, it does seem like a weird thing to bring in but who knows what the top brass are thinking these days
Police Scotland recently decreed in their uniform policy that officers had to be clean shaven.
A reason offered was that stubble would adversely affect the efficiency of a respirator.
But the LGQBT brigade complained, as women who pretend to be men might want to take hormones to promote facial hair, as a way of strengthening the delusion that they were indeed police men. Not women. So the policy was binned.
The joke was that they were expendable in the NBC situation !
Seems like in the late Victorian era there were no grooming standards in regards to facial hair. The period I regularly portray, 1746-1781, clean shaven was the norm!
As a veteran I feel that the regs should stand as it detracts from those who have it as part of tradition of Regt, Corps or religion....
I was an a assault pioneer TA 5 Royal anglian for 5 year loved it
Is the main reason for smooth faces to ensure gas masks fit properly? I know a friend who works removing asbestos has to be clean shaven for the correct fitting of the PPE.
There's another outlook. The skirmishers who became Special Forces were not alone. If the enemy had done a proper job, bridging and similar units would be needed as a fairly high priority, and finding useable launch sites falls to engineer specialists out ahead of the main force. At Agincourt, we find Henry V's childhood chums, Fluellen (Llewellyn) prepping the battlefield. A river runs through it. Jobs like that. John Chard at Rourke's Drift
When I lived in Gib I was told that in the navy, you can have a beard but you can’t be on display until it’s an actual fully grown beard, it’s not as if it makes you any less a fighter🤷♂️
I'm not a serving soldier but I was under the impression that beards were banned due to the problem of getting a good seal on a gas mask. If they have replaced the S6 with some form of 'hood' beards would not be an issue, if not I am not sure I'd want a beard given the goings on in Ukraine.
Used to be an Assault Pioneer Sergeant. Had to grow a beard for the RSM. It was finger. Gutted.
A bearded man in an apron with an axe is the stuff of nightmares.
Ha ha very true!
@@redcoathistory I could have said pinny and that would have really changed the narrative
3 days after video is released - soldiers aloud beards
Crazy timing!
How will your respirator fit property if you have a beard.
It won't.
3:09 You are discussing a hoof brand on the horse
...
Pioneer or engineering troops were often in front of the assault or elite soldiers.
Love this video...
1PWO I was told, it was something about being clean shaven on a parade
The mad axe man
Only have so many days to grow the beard to reaching the desired standard ,or off it comes ( Royal Navy)
New Zealand Army is brining in beards in the next 18 months. As a 30-year career soldier, I applaud the move. It’s 2024, beards are in vogue, if needed (CBRN etc) you can shave them off! Plus it saves money, time and having a sore face 😂
Wasn’t the role of dispatching wounded horses the role of the farriers? I’ve never read anything about pioneers doing this role
Hi mate - I can't claim to know the answer for sure - as Infantry regiments didn't have farriers (as far as i know) I suppose infantry pioneers would be roped in to help?
The story I've heard about beards and pioneers, During the building of the Crystal Palace in 1851 it was the Royal Engineers who built it using a company of pioneers. Because it was intended to be a temporary structure, no one knew if it would stand up to the massive crowds that where expected to pass through it during the 1851 Exposition. When it was finished a company of pioneers was tasked with marching up and down the inside of the Palace to see if the building could take the stress. If the Palace couldn't take the stress then this company would have been showered with crashing glass and steel beams. It past with flying colours. However Queen Victoria arrived early in the morning to see the Palace before the crowd arrived. The soldiers hadn't had time to shave and after she reviewed them, she gave them the right to not shave. I'm not sure if this is a true story of not. But you never know.
Ha ha not sure if its true but its a great dit! Thanks for sharing!
The pioneers of the french foreign legion have them as well. Long tradition.
Yep mate, that's right and we do mention them in the film 👍
I don't like beards in the Military. They interfere with getting a good sela if you have to wear a gas mask.
Irish Defence Forces allow beards as of this year.
Thanks, I didn't know that.
Ex-RAF, 1982-2004...We were told we had to be clean shaven so our gas-masks would seal on our faces. Do they even do NBC in the British forces now? We used have to do the gas-chamber at least once a year.
The army is not like the RAF [GREAT PEOPLE] or NAVY [GREAT PEOPLE] as they may have to face gas, fire etc on the battle field whilst they are fighting where breathing is vip so masks may have to be worn
When dictated by operational requirements, the navy have to be clean shaven to allow correct fit of the gas mask. Thought I could get away with a quick trim last time I went in the chamber, found out the hard way that it doesn’t work.
The US Marines have been issuing no shave waivers for years. It's for men whose skin can't handle daily shaving. They did allow a Sikh to graduate with his beard. I was always under the impression that it interferes with gas masks. I did recently hear that it doesn't. Personally, I wouldn't want to put that to the test. No thanks, I'll shave.
Beards are ok but the reason to not have one is so the gas mask can make a better seal. I saw a Sikh Officer cadet come out of a gas chamber coughing from the CS gas he inhaled. But it's worth noting that although beard have been banned by the British army since the 1700s, in the Crimean war They grew very long ones.
As an ex-serviceman my understanding of why we were not allowed beards was that a clean shaven face makes a good seal with your respirator (gas mask) this makes me wonder about the reasoning for the change . If you wanted to grow a mustache you could but you needed the permission of your CO.
I was a U.S. Army Engineer.
The job is still much the same...
Had a full “set” in the Royal Navy for 21 years. Don’t see why pongoes shouldn’t have the same option.
Was there a British garrison at Calais in 1346? Sounds sketchy.
I say thumbs up on the Beards. As long as you can get a good seal with your gas mask. Im retired US Navy Submarine Service. They let us grow beards when we were at Sea. Pioneers are bad ass Dudes. At the Battle of the Alamo ,Santa Anna had these mean Hombres with the axes and Aprons. And they were the ones that went in at the end. And remember Hitler was gassed in WW1 , and claimed he couldn’t get a seal which resulted in him having that stupid short mustache
The beard to feared!
Completely wrong about chopping hooves from fallen horses. Firstly, pioneers are infantrymen so not many horses kicking around in those FOOT battalions. Secondly, it was the farriers of the cavalry regiments that performed this task and farriers can still be identified in the Household Cavalry Mounted Regiment today by them carrying axes on parade instead of sabres.(and shaped differently to a wood axe of the infantry pioneers - also have a spike on the reverse to finish off injured mounts).
Pioneer Sgt.... The Bearded carrot that lures hipsters into re-enactment groups!
I don't have problem with beards but as many men with beards look scruffy and unkempt I don't want to see my beloved British Army looking scruffy. I always believed from my experience with the British Army it is for the practical reasons of having a tight seal on a gas mask. I don't see why these days when it's easy to shave you would bring it in unless it has to do with a certain religious group that is known for beards. In this Woke world I believe that's the real reason and when have the powers that be ever really cared about our forces. If you want a beard then don't join up END OFF.
I remember this notion, the French pioneers were excluded from shaving because their life was so short and brutal that it was useless to waste time in shaving, better to enjoy that little free time to the fullest
I joined the QOH in 1988. We used to take the p..s out of the Pioneers…how stupid was I!
Since when did the British Army ever deny a distinctive look to ANY of its units or heroes? Keep the beards.
What happens in a gas attack, how does the mask seal properly 😢
REspect beards don't help but hinder if u need to wear a safety face mask [simples]
There's a Sharpe clip which shows the role of French pioneers breaching a gate (3:12 on) : ruclips.net/video/TMr6AHIeyMk/видео.html
I thought the rule againstg beards was because of gas masks not sealing properly?
I believe the French have the same thing with there pioneers battalion I've seen photos of them marching
Yep, they are covered in the video.
Hard to wear a resperrator with a beard.
Personally I'd be against permitting the wearing of beards. They look scruffy. The Army looks scruffy enough since the demise of the battalion tailor shops and the Master Stitch (as the Master Tailor was known) and it's not uncommon to see soldiers wearing ill-fitting uniforms these days. If you don't believe me, ask yourself when you last saw a smart looking uniformed police officer. It seems that virtually every copper has a beard now and uniform that belongs to someone else. If beards are allowed for all and sundry, then the Army will soon look the same.
I'm also not a fan of the beards, the Canadian Army allows them now (which has now removed all hair regulations...) which makes the military look extremely sloppy
we looked scruffy as the clothing store allocations were crap eg 12 pairs of lightweight trousers per month for a unit , if everyone trashed a pair on exercise it would take you a year to get them changed. Wasted hours at the clothing store with a useless chit only to find out the allocation was gone . You could see the piles of stock on the shelves . There was a stampede to the cleaning rag bag from stores as the senior ranks used to change kit that was in perfect condition unlike ours. Best example of poor kit allocation was when a soldier was asked by Margret Thatcher if there was anything they needed in N.I. he said he could not get any army socks. She posted him some within a week !
The Royal Australian Air Force allowed beards back in 2022. Fantastic decision, I for one love it
Try putting on respirator, in a nbc/cbrn environment and surviving if have a beard.
Beard shave off in 9 seconds ?
If you never served in the military you have no idea what I am talking about.
Don't ever remember pioneers being classed as elite 😂😂
Lol you must have met the wrong ones
Sort of worried about gas masks and not getting a perfect seal.
❤️💚
It's totally stupid to not permit soldiers to have beards....
But permit questionable tats or excessive body fat. Ex Army 76-19.