DHH Is Switching To NeoVim???
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- Recorded live on twitch, GET IN
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Honestly, I believe if DHH got on a stream with these two, some coconut oil would be rubbed and these three would get along.
For sure that would be a fun one, love or hate DHH, he has his reasoning and it would be fun to see some back and forth with these two.
@@_unknown_guy true. I think I like most of DHH's takes
@@earthling_parth I like most of them even when I disagree honestly. It's super easy to see where he's coming from with most of them.
this aged like wine
Let's be honest, it's in programmers OCD nature to always look for a better option. It's why you still see people obsessing over their IDEs, their IDE configs, their keyboards, their chairs and to some, their hair colour.
Anything to avoid doing real work
Most people don't do this, which is why most people aren't using vim. The vast majority just want to get stuff done, and what editor they use is secondary.
In fact this is prime's take on using Linux (see interview with Brodie)
To give him credit, he did find a solution then stay with it and just worked.
@@zealy1369this.
@@georgehelyar That's why I use Windows, I want to get work done, the operating system I do my programming literally doesn't matter because code is text and you can edit text on any computer/OS. The fact that you use a specific operating system to edit your text doesn't make you faster or slower, actually Windows has a good side-effect, you can't (easily) change it, so losing time customizing the thing is out of question, you're forced to focus. (that's almost a John Blow take)
You can remote into linux from any operating system, but mostly you don't need to do it unless things go wrong because of CI/CD.
(also, at the same time, Prime using Windows because the sound system actually works when doing streams, yeah, right, just get the job done, linux is not a religion, its just a tool)
TJ went full time streaming? LETS GOO best of luck man!
Let’s go!
I love his dynamic with Prime
the way you highlight text is super satisfying thank you mr theprimeagen sir
Yes the fastest way of reading
the way he ignores the first and last characters gives me ocd
I became fan of DHH when I started learning rails few months ago. He is a racing driver and creator of a framework that got use in so many places. It shows how valuable things he has created.
Here exactly the same, moving all my projects from Laravel to Rails. I now I'm a happy programmer again!
Is that DHH the famous race car driver??
Didn't know he also made ruby on rails as well.
He at least has some sports car.
Le mans winner, silver rated wec driver
TextMate was good, its features have carried forward into every editor since, particularly snippets and the fuzzy finder. It was attractive and easy to customize, and had a lot of great default color schemes. I don't really follow the dunking on it these days, other than it stopped being maintained. Sublime is basically a much more performant version of TextMate. It's also interesting and helpful to highlight that Ruby was designed to be written with no assistance. This has been forgotten as coding assistance has gotten better and more readily available, while the languages no longer have to be obnoxiously bureaucratic to support it.
22:12 Flip taking no shit from anyone
Filp gave them a flip
ONE OF US ONE OF US!!! Welcome DHH!
Vim: Certain generation
Emacs: Editor for Middle Aged Computer Scientists
I am 38. I switched to Emacs xD
@@GreyDeathVaccine One day...
I heard that notification and went "Another meeting c'mon man" and started looking for it. Thank god!
im 20 and use neovim, thanks to you prime! trying out linux too
I love it when TJ is on
"A certain generation" killed me. I've been using NeoVim for a year by now. And I'm faster than I ever was on Intellij, and I'm not even 20, what generation?
8:00 me wondering if I had a work meeting coming up.
The merch @19:59 needs to be something like "neovim, from a certain generation", perfect on many levels!
This is why I ignore everyone here and code in Visual Studio on my Windows 10 machine to write Blazor. I’ve bonded so it’s too late to change.
Respect for owning it. I saw blazor then native custom elements ... the minute IE was retired... custom elements all the way. (Blazor polar opposite of custom elements)
I appreciate the sincerity but I was memeing… partly. I literally just moved to Ubuntu and VSCode from Windows and VS2022. I’m part way to being a real programmer.
I was waiting for this. I read that article few hours ago.
Flip, we love you.
I started off Brief way back in DOS then Borland IDEs then vi and later Visual Studio and now VSCode
Reduced editors definitely change how you program. In university we did a bunch of languages, but in particular I did 2 years of ADA in the GNAT editor followed by 2 years in Nano. It was mostly a goof that got out of hand, but it taught me a lot about code structure and changed the way that I interfaced with documentation. It became very obvious which shortcuts would result in hiding information rather than reducing workload (although I'm sure some of this is confirmation bias, since I was also just a better programmer)
As a VIM user, I found Helix's shortcuts slightly more intuitive straight out of the box. I stopped using it right before I felt I was getting addicted to them, mainly because then I'd have to put up with the pains of a slowly growing ecosystem (Helix gets new versions or updates very slow). I am still rooting for it.
Helix is coming back so hard, by having more and more plugins adding it's keybindings to editors like VS*ode. Took it from kakoune, a.k.a editor with clippy :P
You gotta respect editor with clippy :P
One of the best chaos duos! I loved it!
For everyone who's still lost: TextMate is like NeoVim but with a file explorer always open on one side of the window.
?
Wut. I don't think anyone uses vim without a file explorer like nerdtree or something.
Nope, there are many posts or videos damning the usage of file tree in Neovim, basically saying it's a bloat. If not mistaken, the sentiment of TJ and Prime is also not to use a file tree, particularly as Oil.nvim gains traction
I have a file tree but I just toggle it open when I need to see there project structure visualization with git signs and diagnostics
All this talk about TextMate makes me nostalgic for my BBEdit era.
I really don't get why anyone would take Campfire instead of Zulip.
But then again, I don't get why this industry is so entranced by Slack instead of using Zulip, so what do I know.
Textmate is the father of fuzzy finder, it invented it before Atom , VSCode etc ...
12:55 I think that for some people (ADHD or things) it is vital to be able to predict what will happen in the editor not waiting for what autocompletion shows. You can just plan ahead a few actions and perform them not grabbing the mouse or things. Too much distracting and "cheap" autocompletion can end up like just browsing with all its drawbacks, sometimes becoming substitute goal.
I swear, if Prime isn't making TJ cry from laughter in every video, it's Sora
It's wild that he's choosing neovim because it supports language servers, but then he doesn't want other editors because he doesn't want an "IDE"?
My former room-mate from uni dormitory (who works at google) daily codes without LSP, syntax highlight, no plugins, plain vim.... I only don't use LSP, but learned its not really that bullshit thing to do. As you say it really changes your designing about simpler architecture and structures. Like I do not use deep nested directories anymore - can live with it, but do not really need.
PS.: We both code in typesafe languages so this is not strictly about dynamic/static. I often disagree with DHH, but this is second time I agree.
I get where he is coming from: one of the apps they make is a PWA chat app.. and with apple being PWA un-friendly he may feel obliged to not trust them.
Most people don't care about chat history, except for work environments.
Loved the banter!
Prime: i like go explicit "if err" over ? in rust so you think about how to handle errors.
Also prime: i have a macro to pre-fill "if err"
3:31 TextMate and vim have the best column modes by FAR. Nothing comes even close.
You guys know what else stands the test of time? Lisp and C...
Teej is now a Pythonista!
If you like this kind of writing, read "Rework" is a very fun book by him and his bud Json Fried who's a designer by trade.
The advice at 2:00 was beautiful
man I really love the chemistry between this duo!
they're so funny together, yet the content is always interesting + informative.
Awesome!!
18:05 Prime talking about using Xcode like he was a POW lol
It's kind of funny to think that when I first used vim I was probably 10-11 years old.
The "accurate" in the end
DIdn't know DHH and I started with the same editors: vim -> textmate -> Sublime (cause I got tired of finding a cracked version of textmate) -> bought ST3 -> VSCode (I miss the performance of ST3 on big files though, using vim instead atm), I'm still on the verge of testing neovim (I just don't want to spend hours on ends to config it...).
Also, I'll steal that ctrl+y to accept autocomplete, I get really tired sometimes of getting autocomplete that I don't want in my code ...
VSCode, no matter how many issues I've had with it, it is the text editor I constantly am going back to. There's just something about getting so frustrated with an issue that feels exclusive to your device and learning more about what's under the hood even more than you currently do.
Great example of learning is the hostility of VSCode (or at least, whatever the fuck is up with my VSCode software) toward Electron or raylib: where I have to cd into the folder via terminal to resolve package dependency problems. Compared to just using a standard IDE where I can just point to the header file/library source (which does make Xcode rather bearable), it teaches you far more with regards to problem solving.
Sublime Text literally used TextMate definition files for syntax highlighting :3 Standing on the shoulders of giants etc.
I wish more people would realize that relying on some (closed source) software that isn't even cross-platform is bound to become a pain in the ass at some point.
Which one ? Only textmate really fits that description ( sublime is cross platform )
Zed and arc come to mind.
13:34 This is why I love vim! It has a text editor; and it's named INSERT MODE. Then again if GUI is to be loaded, why not use BBEdit on a Mac? I used BBEdit 6.1 lite at one point when the Mac did not have terminal with an accompanied linux server where I could run vim.
T shirt: "Yes, I am of a certain generation. A generation where anyone older than us will look down on us, and anyone younger than us will step on our toes."
Might be too long.
That's great
Man I’m finally on the vim train I got zed and viscode vim and I’m not as fast yet but its hilarious cause I finally went full vim binding when I found the first buttons I’d start pushing were those weird hjkl cursor buttons. Now they feel more natural than the arrows
I started with linux first, but kind of went the same route, at first opening vim only when i absolutely had to and having this kind of weird curiosity and then it clicked,
fw, dap, hjkl i was zooming and it was so much better
You always keep learning new things, macros, Vy@", plugins, etc it just dosent stop
I love it.
Godspeed to you, vim friend.
24:00 set up Zapier and have everyone download a backup of their data through a cron job.
One of textmate’s USP was the fuzzy find for files IMSMR
Damn this video finally making me think of trying neovim. Why you do this to me
NOSTR - its a great protocol from the Bitcoiners where you own your own data, and avoid centralization
Ok, i tried that color scheme, and i like it :)
I do Ctrl+space for completion and ctrl+j/k for selecting it, i don't wanna have to reach for the y
Who uses vim as their primary editor, and what do they think?
Helix mentioned!
I try and try but I cannot get into (neo)vim at all.
It's unbelievable that guy that created and maintains ruby on rails doesn't take advantage of things like "go to definition" etc. At least until now if he finds it somehow 😆
Got a feeling, DHH is going to hate Neovim. And I'm waiting for the take down article 🍿
prime compensates his small windows energy by flexing neovim
12:57 I thought tab behaving intelligent based would be good thing, but now it got me thinking, what about otherwise? I'd see accepting lsp suggestions were mapped other than tab, there is legit reason
I know him! He’s that dude from the Silicon Valley who invented the internet radio 📻 😂
@18:50 Neovim, the bastard son of the uncles brothers mother.
18:22 that's called IBM PC DOS E is perfection. Ironically MSDOS EDIT and every single input text field on Windows uses that keyboard sequence. VI is strange for the PC, we do have page-up/down/insert/delete keys and cursor keys, the VI keybinding only make sense if you look at a PDP keyboard.
You literally chose the race car DHH just because it makes him cooler announcing that he is using Neovim. 😎
Ain't fooling me Prime and Tj. I know better ;)
0:08: 💻 Preference for quiet programming environment and deep bond with text editor over versatility in coding.
3:49: 🎃 Discussion on using plain text editor for coding, avoiding JavaScript in IDE, and embracing constraints for design.
8:17: 🪙 Discussion about text editors and a humorous interruption during a live stream.
11:08: 🔍 Exploration of new text editor tool and appreciation for gifted subs during reading process.
14:35: ⚙️ Comparison of text editors like Sublime and neovim in terms of speed and file handling.
18:06: ⌨️ Discussion on the cult following of Vim and the integration of Vim mode in NeoVim.
22:39: 🤔 Exploring the evolution of DHH's coding tools, from Cloud to self-hosting, JavaScript preferences, and transition to Neovim.
Timestamps by Tammy AI
The "orange" "door hinge" Drake and Josh reference is amazing!!!
19:58 "The Vim generation"
Still using TextMate... Before that, Amiga CygnusED
zed is similar to TextMate and I love it. It’s Mac only tho
Boys i need help, I am a Winforms c# andy that writes desktop software for my company. I would love to use NeoVim, but omnisharp is said to perform badly and it doesnt support the designer, am i destined to be a flithy casual?
wagiesharp users lmao.
I never understand wpf. Winforms all the way.
@@UnidimensionalPropheticCatgirl not by choice but by circumstance.
@19:50 , merch idea. T-shirt “.... aGen“
14:08 The bleep is buying soil these days.
TextMate WAS the bomb, y’all! :)
these people always whining about the right editor just need to write their own damn editor, that's what I did. This whole convo is normie town.
The Comradagean
The best quote..."I can't believe we're reading an article written by Joe Biden" 😂
LET'S FUCKING GO!!!!
Or you spend 4 hours setting up some open source software only to realize it cant handle non-URL-safe characters in the db password. First video to rant about this now back to work
Door Hinge rhymes with Orange.. drake & josh reference?? 😅
absolute chad
I thought DHH was crazu, know I'm certain
definitely turn off the tools for learning imo
textmate lol. that was the "cool kid" editor in 2008
I just here for the jokes
10:28 Anything Electron or web has a noticable lag compared to native apps.
Before TextMate it was Notepad++.
if hes into using textmate, he should use lite-xl
The reading sounds like a romantic coding story !
The name . . . Is the COMIgen
Sounds like DHH is having a mid-life crisis
5:10 if you know your codebase you don't need a search function for it. 😅
I knew it you will bw make a video about it :D
16:26 *LOL* We have 1 - one country in the world with democracy; namely Switzerland, while some countries have dictatorships; yet most have indirect dictatorships falsly called democrazies or parliamentarism.
6:05 If this DDH guy think types are just for syntax highlighting then he never use a (real) statically typed language. The true benefit is the ability to put constrains on your program and check them at compile time (before you even run the program!).
Isn't what je said the opposite, that you need an ide to make statically typed programming flow
@@LiveErrors Sorry, wrong timestamp.
I wrote this comment after they already read the part where the article author said "I never got on with explicitly-typed language..." (I assume by explicitly typed he includes statically typed).
EDIT: 😅
You can freely do it using python or whatever. Does it mean that static typed languages are useless? No! xD
XD 22:14 man.. flip is getting bullied...
Accurate.