For me it’s how the whole lobby has to hide because a widow is in the lobby. I’m diamond 1/masters 5 and so many heroes instantly become useless because a widow is locking down the whole map by just existing. Hanzo can also one shot but it’s way easier to dodge his arrows than a hitscan. Also all my games where there’s a widow is often decided by who’s a better widow. One way to change her is to add a laser where she’s aiming like in cod so you know where she’s looking
YES, this is in apex legends with vantageand needs to be with her in this game. I think another solution is just to bring her down to 150 health, that lets her be onshot to a lot of people
@@BLACKOUTSSBU Like the first idea, don't think the health will do much though. If you can oneshot a 150 hero, the Widow is already too close to you basically.
@@BLACKOUTSSBU then she gets LW pulled, and bap lamp, and the tank rotated and all of a sudden the easy 150 widow is now has reposition and has her team backing her up. If your playing in metal ranks, yeah she dead. Metal player are afraid to turn around
You can always lengthen her charge and add a laser or red dot. A red dot would be a simple giveaway but also can be easily missed in the chaos that is Overwatch. At least giving ONE hint you're about to just walk into a completely silent forever charged shot. Making her charge longer to get to full charge also helps when people are pushing her in her face. Just nerf the charge and maybe buff her SMG so she at least has another option on top of that she still has her escape option of the hook.
To be the devils advocate here. If the charge shot is longer it would be hard or impossible to do grapple shot kills. Unless they made it so you could precharge a shot.
As someone that frequently bounces between paladins and OverWatch, I'll tell you a story about how paladins removed its one shots. Once upon a time Paladins had the same problem. It's Widowmaker and Hanzo variant. We're dominating matches. They almost literally server admins deleting people mere moments after walking out spawn. It didn't sit well with the community. How a game with goblins in mech suits and literally dragons we're getting dominated by chick with sniper rifle. So Hi Rez the paladins devs listened to the community (weird i know) and just removed their one shots. They do just enough damage to almost kill you, but because of their inherent slow fire rate you could probably get around the corner before you got your head blown and though if you have already taken a little bit damage, you were probably dead. The results were only positive for the game. The snipers not being able to one shot allowed other characters that have been useless to actually get some play time. It gave more meaning to the flanker role since the sniper was leaving somebody very weak in the back line. The only person that this wasn't a positive for was the sniper So I guess the question is should you hold your game hostage so one player in the lobby can get a montage?
Sky? i thinks that's her name was a much bigger issue than one shots because her poison dart dealt total max hp and could dot kill the knight and other tanks but was useless against dps or support. Pretty sure they made it deal retroactive hp damage but only played for like the 1st month the game came out so idk.
Only issue is if they nerf Widow to be like this, it'll go against her "one shot one kill" character identity, which people will inevitably complain about. Also, and this is my problem, if Widow no longer oneshots, you have to give her SOMETHING else to do to be useful or fun to play- 'cause otherwise she'd just be the character that sits in the backline getting people low and praying someone else will finish them off, which is a huge nothingburger compared to the rest of the roster. Honestly she just needs a big rework atp. Something more engaging, and with more counterplay.
I love the “this wouldn’t be fun for the widow” when 90% of the time a widow is involved it isn’t fun for anyone else. Really hoping she gets looked at in a way that makes it more fun for all parties rather than one dominating.
One shots dont have a place in competetive games unless there are stacking variables that lead up to it that you can respond to. There has to be a real trade off "oh if they're able to jump half the map im done" is not a trade off.
CS2, Valorant, and R6 all have one shots. It’s a staple of competitive first person shooters. I’m not saying that it’s right for Overwatch, but it’s silly to say that a mechanic with 20+ years of history and acceptance “doesn’t have a place”
I really hate to burst your bubble but one shots outside of overwatch are far more common in most esport titles. I mean with val or CS you can one shot with any gun and those are two of the biggest fps esports that exists. Even LoL has one shots though granted they're typically much harder to do. OW is actually one of the only games where people shout for competitive integrity and balance while willing the removal of one shots.
I had the idea of a ‘focus in’ ability in which she can aim as she currently does, but when on cooldown she aims with slight inaccuracies and retains the 300 dmg shot. She could also have a change to grapple where it doesn’t auto aim to a ledge and instead leads her to where she points. To compensate these nerfs, she could have a possible hp buff (200-225) and an increase in smg damage.
She needs like a sniper thread or something like from splatoon or something. We don't need to delete widow or somethin, to get that 1shot consistently takes actual skill with having good aim, and I'm tired of blizzard nerfing heros that actually take skill, but something does need to change with her a bit.
Maybe a massive lens flair for all to see when her scope powers up? That way it's harder to hide as the Widow, but also still able to be played around? Idk
I wonder how it would play out to have her charge work similarly to how it does now, but after a few seconds it slowly decays back down to a set point (say 50% for example). Thus, for her to hold a corner, she would have to know when to start scoping in, or she'd want to re-scope to get the full damage. I was thinking about a similar thought with Hanzo a few years ago, it would get pretty tiring to hold a bow indefinitely so it could make sense that he'd slightly lose pressure on his pull. Applying it to Widow instead might make more sense from a gameplay perspective though, especially considering where they took Hanzo it's less needed for him.
I enjoy playing widow so much but can understand how playing against an oppressive one can be extremely frustrating! I honestly wouldn’t have a problem if they wanted to make her charge take longer. I do think they should add a visual indication that I’m scoped in so many games has some type of visual indication that someone is sniping and I think she definitely needs that
People saying that Sombra was a necessary evil to keep Widows in check have the wrong mindset. They are two individual problems that both need solving. If one character completely shuts down another, then that is bad character design on both ends.
2:20 Agreed to this. Why the f do I shoot cotton balls as Cass when the target is further than 40 m away and Widow can sit in Narnia and one-shot most of the roster?
If you don't want damage falloff play a healer, er I mean a support. (That was meant to be a joke, but it also true) While I agree that supports should be able to defend their selves. Their defense should be evasiveness, not more damage that an damage created character. OW2 kind of went stray with the identities of each roll. Its difficult to balance a hit scan sniper, when only a dive tank, or support can pressure her. Widow belonged in OW 1 after the first few patches, but she does not work well in OW2, when supports do more damage than the DPS. This causes the supports to put pressure on her, and takes away the support keeping the DPS alive to pressure her. It is unbalanced when a Bapt or an Illari have better luck keeping a Widow hiding than an Ashe or Cass.
You're literally comparing apples to oranges 😂 Widowmaker is a squishy sniper and Cassidy is an up close duelist. Ofc hes gonna have fall off. He's one of the tankiest DPS in the game and has 2 reload mechanics and an up close stun. If you're gonna make this argument, at least make it right
This is gonna be super out there, but what if widow couldn't be healed by teammates? It fixes the pocketed/peeled widow issues, it's relatively fair considering her one shots can't be healed either, and it's honestly pretty lore-accurate considering widow is essentially a zombie who cannot feel emotions.
Another direction they could go is to give her headshot a 200 damage (with falloff) and a 100 damage bleed over 2 seconds. This still allows her to "1-shot" 300hp characters but still gives people a small window to react and potentially survive.
I think adding the red tracer that's left after she fires as something that appears as she's scoped in is the answer. It's like how snipers are in shows and stuff so I'd be cooler. 😂
Personally, being one shotted is one of the most frustrating things in a game like overwatch, if I wanted to play hide and seek or test reaction time I'd rather be in Tarkov or CS/Val, not to mention the arrow that hanzo missed happened to randomly hit me
18:38 as a decent widowmaker main that is disgusting 😂 it’s still a fun ability, but that would be abused so much but instead of that, they should just let her swing with her grappling hook but if they would remove the grappling hook I would quit Widowmaker and start playing Ashe or Ana
Widowmaker deals x2 damage normally, 240 damage headshot Widowmaker deals x3 damage to revealed enemies, 360 damage headshot Venom mine duration is doubled to 10 secs. It launches without drop like a Sym turret. Now has 2 charges
I agree that removing her one-shot deals a hit to her characters identity. I like the laser idea but the first thing I thought of was make her more visible. Every shot she takes should make her visible for a few seconds similar to her ult or Sombra's passive. There needs to be a trade off to being able to kill someone with one click.
My best idea is givng Widow limited scope shots and/or a slower charge on the scope. You need to make the one-shots have to be earned, so that she still works like now, but it's not dominating. At the same time, make it so that when she is steamrolling, she has to grab a health pack to regain more scope shots or something and so the enemy team is not being in pressure by the Widow all the time
As a widow main, I’ll keep one shotting everyone. Then the other team throws everyone at me (tracer, sombra, winton, Lucio) and then they lose objective cause they’re too busy with me in the back
The OW classic game i had last night was amazing. I got to play widow on kings row defence and my team was lit. They saved my ass so many times when i should have been punished for my mistakes. Plus the mercy pocket was such a change of pace for me xD
In my opinion, what makes widows one-shot more annoying than the rest is that you have no warning before it happens like you do with sigmas combo or hogs old combos. With widow, it's just you moved slightly, and then your dead, you might not have even know there was a widow before that point So my idea of how to change that is to rework her poison mine so that she can fire it further away from her and maybe give it a second charge Then make it so that she can only do massive damage to people who are poisoned which keeps her one-shot but also gives her target a warning to hide (i hope that makes sense)
She does 55-70m Past 70 she can't 1 tap any 225 without a mercy boost Yes 70 is quite long but that is a heavy nerf on some of her best maps like Havana, Circuit Royale and Colosseo
I think making it so she only gains scope charge when her scope is zeroed in on an enemy hitbox would help alot with her risk, also GREATLY increase the zoom, its a sniper, she shouldn't be able to see everything around her. Personally I think all charging heroes should have indefinite charge
I had a thought that they could replace the one shot with something just as powerful in giving a wall hack to the whole team as long as a full charge widow is scoped in a target
So for widow one of his solutions is to give her the spartan lazer from halo? I would be kinda down to play test that (hold down button to charge, though in halo with a laser showing where the shot goes.)
I am so tired of Widow . 6 of my last 7 games had one. Getting one shot is not fun. But if they add a laser at very least . Sometimes I feel like she isn’t looking at me but then it turns out she is and it’s hard to tell when she’s far away. So I just have 2 requests -Add a laser -Increase time to charge to 100% For how much power one character has it’s the least they can do.
Yeah should be more of an 2 shot at range but 1 shot up close within 30meters but her Ult can critical like in her Mirrorwatch with passive quick charge without holding scope. So she has risk outside but is stronger with using her Ultimate.
Bring Widow in and watch Ashe players grin widely :p Having said that I find facing a decent Widow very frustrating. What makes it worse is that there appear to be quite a few Widow OTP alt accounts running loose in the lower ranks. Somehow their aim and positioning is so much better than that of the other players it's hilarious at times. Usually standard icons, skins and private profiles etc. You know the drill.
I keep seeing people recommend lasers or red dots, but what about glint? At least to me, it seems like a good idea, so you dont have to search for where the widow is.
Time to give Tracer a oneshot so she stops being Tracer-76. I'm of course joking, but I feel people are way too quick with the Soldier 76 comparisons whenever we're dealing with reducing toxic play patterns. I must say that I quite like the focus idea. A change from the suggestion in the video is to make the loss of focus scale with the damage taken. Getting hit by a stray tracer shot for a couple of damage shouldn't affect her as much as being hit by junkrat's mine or granade.
Outside of ults and combos one shots don’t belong in ow. They could make her ult give her the one shot back. One shots have always been a problem hog, hanzo, doom, and even rein. I just can’t believe that we nerfed all the combos and hanzo one shot you know the things that take skill but they leave the easiest one shot in the game. They could leave her at the damage boost threshold so mercy, zen etc can allow her to oneshots sorta like Ashe or soj. All non ult/combos need to go.
My personal suggestion would have been a high-noon like charging. If you see a player long enough in scope, you get to oneshot them, but they get to see and maybe hear that you can now send them on a 10 second taxi back to spawn. So, if you get attacked by a tracer and you never saw them, you would need a short time of having her in your scope to go oneshot (which you still need to aim for, i dont want perma high noon widow). It would even create the possibility of buffing the venom mine and infra sight by having it count as charging too. What i personally dont think should be is widow (or hanzo, but thats besides the context of this video) having a oneshot, which counts to me as a "you shouldnt have" button on the list of annoying things in overwatch.
There’s so many hyper mobile hero’s now and it’s not like playing ow classic where she can just destroy a tank diving her. If you can click on a head that’s actively trying to dodge and avoid you as a sniper it being a one shot should be your reward. Her grapple is pretty op but that’s all that really needs to be changed
What I feel would make the 1 shot feel fair is reducing the size of her bullet. Health would be good to clean her up faster but watching killcams and seeing her miss by a good margin and still dying is blood boiling. I have no problem with a well placed shot but when 7/10 times she doesn’t even hit me in the head that’s where it gets frustrating. I’m platinum so I can’t speak for the perception of higher ranks and the accuracy gap.
her projectile size is .05 and I think the smallest in the game it's already pretty much pinpoint what you're seeing is more likely a visual bug or a character hitbox issue
What you're seeing is almost always server latency on your end. They hit their shot on their side, you just see it at a tiny delay that makes it look like they miss
Maybe they should revert the projectile size for Widow. I feel that the size increase is mostly to blame here, ever since she has become more unfun to play against. Being a hit scan sniper, making the shots have to be more precise, can be rewarding, and decrease being OP. There is a problem if I play widow and someone comments, because my aim sucks. To top it off with a little peaking and lag comp, she only needs to shoot right next to your head. As long as 1 pixel of the hit box is exposed, its a hit. It makes is frustrating, that hair expands the hit box, and enables head shots so easily. Shrink the projectile size and maybe make her hit box a bit larger.
I got very lucky one time when I was playing Genji and I deflected a Widow's shot on me and my deflected shot headshotted her. I don't think I recorded it
I’ve said this since 2017, I think widow should be bullet travel time than hit scan. Most FPS games for sniper based have bullet travel time rather hit scan, but it also rewards the player for predicting correctly. I’m sure there’s better options but this is my personal opinion.
@ ah yes. Let me play a character that you have to arch rather than widow that goes in a straight line. Real talk, I get it but at the same time what do u do with widow? Cause ya can’t remove her one shot cause her identity is gone, can’t nerf her health cause she will just pop like a dollar store water ballon, bullet travel is one of the few safe options. It will still require her to position and play smart, but additionally making her have to predict where her opponent goes. Again I’m sure there’s better options but I think bullet travel time could be thrown in as a possibility.
forget widow, I want junkrat dead I hate this character so much. Shoot him from afar he just jumps away and keeps spamming bombs from behind cover. Try to get close, get oneshot.
Why don't they make it that you literally have to hit 100% to one shot squishy characters. But make it slightly slower to reach 100% Make it she can't snipe up close and if she does it won't do as DMG. There's lots of ways to fix her and not make her busted
Maybe its me but even when a widows really good, you CAN kill her. You js need to be patient but overwatch players know everything ab patience and still cant do it
Okay lets be real most people are probably around gold meaning widow is useless there she doesn't bring any useful abilities to the table , if she gets a nerf make her ult something more than just a wallhack its really lame for an ult
One shots do not belong in a hero shooter. A game like overwatch is a team based game with abilities. To have a characters primary fire delete an enemy doesn't leave any room for team play or counterplay. It should do a huge chunk of damage that forces the enemy to react and use cooldowns. So either your team can followup and finish the kill, or it forces their supports to peel and use abilities.
You can argue they dont belong in overwatch, but they are a staple in hero shooters lol. I mean every hero in valorant can 1 tap you in the head and apex has had numerous weapons that can one shot. Those games are also teambased but you dont see their players going out of their way to demand the removal of those features
Snipers are constantly a complaint in shooters but I say take a page from both TF2 and destiny here. In TF2 full charge is way longer, like 5 seconds, but can kill heavy. Obviously widow doing 500 damage is insane, but how about 3 second charge time and it scales to a higher amount that doesn't one shot tanks. Maybe you can even play with it a bit more so it can charge up to 5 seconds for 500 damage but does less at closer ranges or body shot damage is greatly decreased. On top of this add the laser dot so players know a sight line is occupied. The biggest complaint is turning a corner to immediately die with zero warning, so adding one could help alongside other things. In destiny 1 snipers were a staple of pvp. There were places you only went if you could fight a sniper and more often than not you found one there. To counter this (aside from mobility) two things existed: flinch and lens glare. Flinch may feel wrong in ow, but it can give tanks a little more to do against her as they helplessly watch their teammates fall over so maybe exploring that could be nice. Lens glare, like the laser pointer, is not the only change needed, but it'd be awesome. Being able to see a glare and immediately know you gotta move makes death a tad more fair as you knew she's getting ready for something. It incentivizes widow to not be scoped for awhile and makes it easy to dive and react to her. While it wouldn't solve the issue entirely, I think it'd be a good addition. The final idea I have would be to play with her zoom. Either if it zoomed more in as charge grew or you had to toggle a higher zoom for the increased multiplier, otherwise it's similar to Ashe gun. Now she still has the close range skill shot (a bit better) and can stay far away, but now has to choose. Zoom changes sounds simple and useless, but I promise you that trying to use a 4x or 8x after being in a 2x can be pretty disorienting.
For the love of game god. Its a easy fix. make widow's hp 150-175. Not even hard making widow a one shot glass cannon. Easy to take out but powerful to take you out doing 300 damage at full charge. why people have to over think everything?
@@solidforge2016 easily with 150-175 hp. anna can 2 tap her ass. ash, hazo, Winston, diva, echo sticky nades. The low hp makes her easyer to kill. Head shot on her would be brutal. sombra 1 hack an cube widow be cooked. Also just dogde the shots. I never had a problem running from cover to cover tweeking out to avoid a head shot while pot shoting a widow. Its her high hp that makes her a threat since you cant down her fast enough. I tested it 150 hp widow an 1k games 0 complaining about her. since she was a breeze to turn an deal with 90% Of the characters could deal with her no problem from range. 20% could get up to ger face an she was screwd.
You should never consider removing 1shots out of an FPS. Poor positioning needs to be punishable. I also don't like the suggestions in that video, like regarding her charged shot, etc. I despise all the "nerf X hero " talk when the option of buffing the things that counter her exists. Bring other heroes up to the point where they can challenge her and she is in danger more often, instead of nerfing her or drastically changing her and risking destroying yet another hero's identity.
I honestly don't care much about widow. The only time I find her annoying is when the entire team is petrified of her, refuses to do anything to counter or mitigate her and still just stand in the middle of the point with no protection to get sniped. But I personally rarely get killed by a widow. Its usually once and then its "oh they have a widow, better use cover and angles". The one shots that annoy me are the hanzo one shots that are just spammed into an opening. No aiming, half the time his vision is blocked by the tank or other clutter and just randomly gets a headshot on you while you are sprinting across a doorway for 1 second. I get that he needs it because otherwise he is useless, but its still annoying as hell.
Not a high rank take. A character that forces you to play differently by just existing is tough to play against. The more “angles” you have to play and sight lines you have to avoid gives the enemy more map to control and dominate allowing for them to push the objective uncontested
personally, its the fact that its an instant kill that makes her so oppressive, theres no way to interact with her, OR the damage she deals.. if she did DOT, like ana i feel like playing into her would feel far less terrible, and it would (imo) fit with her character fantasy of an assassin! like... shes a spider... a black widow... let her dmg type reflect venomous spiders! the team would be able to react to it if its DOT but you could let the dmg numbers stay insanely high! to reward more accurate shots there could be a damage on hit effect on crit shots as well, maybe somewhere between 75-100 dmg on hit for crits with around 275-300 DOT for non crit shots. i get that her whole theme revolves around 1 shotting the enemy but why does it have to be an INSTANT one shot? in addition to that just think of the psychological damage it would do to a player to be hiding and see their health drain away from seemingly nothing until they get healed or cleansed! (edit: i havent watched the whole video yet i left this comment in the beginning as these are my thoughts on widow based on my own observations playing into her, mainly on support)
i think rather then removing one shot, they need to increase the charge time so it takes longer to actually one shot someone. widow keeps her lethality, but shes no longer capable of like...dueling people at her worst range with ease. she becomes diveable again. and she cant just "LOL CLICKIN UR HEAD BYEBYE" on a dive hero who tries to jump her. she can still evade the diver, but its not like before where she can jump away, scope in, and immediately one shot them before they can catch up to her.
Bring a sniper...closer to the battle. that makes no sense. shes a sniper. i think one shots are fine, i honestly think this game has to much sustain. we are going back to the overwatch 1 problem. things live to long. i miss having to play smart with starts.
"wouldnt be fun for the widow" - fuck it ill say it, WHO CARES. Honestly they have dominated the game for so long. She single handedly makes both teams revolve around her not to mention half the lobby doesnt get to play the game because of her. No hero in the game should have the ability to negate half the map, negate half the lobby from playing, instantly delete more then half the lobby the minute they even try to play. NO hero should have that. I cant take that guy seriously, he is trying to compare other heroes one shot abilities that give you TONS of room to avoid them or counter play them and those one shots versus a widow who plays point and click adventure from ACROSS THE MAP without you even standing a chance. The fact he uses the comparison like that is some serious brain rot bot mentality. There REALLY isnt more to her then standing back and 1 tapping people from a mile away. And oh yeah lets get her a grapple she can hide in higher unreachable places, that dude is seriously on some crack. There is only two ways they could fix widow, either drastically DROP her range to one shot so something like 10-20M OR Massively increase her charge time.
Widow is the sniper. That's what she does. If you delete one-'shot, you have to delete widow from the game, and that would suck for the widow players. SO no, don't delete one-shot
They dont need to delete one shot. What they need to do is one of the 3 changes(not all 3): Make her 150 hp so most characters can kill her easily/I shot her, make her hage fall of damage, make her have a snipers glimmer
One shot does not belong in a hero shooter. She should do a huge chunk of damage, but not be able to one shot any full hp target. This would let her finish off anyone who took damage from her team, or force the enemies to react and use cooldowns after hitting a shot.
@@pkrames WIdow was one of the earliest heroes in OW. The "bad design" is not fault of the one-shot. The problem is on the maps. Most maps are bad for Widow, but when they are good and the other team has no positioning, widow dominates. And yes, one-shots belong in FPS games (always did)
@@gabriel.cercal depends. One-shot need to be balanced in fps games and most games it has been easily balanced but overwatch it's simple to balance but hasn't been balanced
For me it’s how the whole lobby has to hide because a widow is in the lobby. I’m diamond 1/masters 5 and so many heroes instantly become useless because a widow is locking down the whole map by just existing. Hanzo can also one shot but it’s way easier to dodge his arrows than a hitscan. Also all my games where there’s a widow is often decided by who’s a better widow.
One way to change her is to add a laser where she’s aiming like in cod so you know where she’s looking
YES, this is in apex legends with vantageand needs to be with her in this game. I think another solution is just to bring her down to 150 health, that lets her be onshot to a lot of people
@@BLACKOUTSSBU Like the first idea, don't think the health will do much though. If you can oneshot a 150 hero, the Widow is already too close to you basically.
@KindOldRaven Torbjorn and ash could do something. Also if you just go two dive characters it would basically guarantee her death if she's 150 hp
@@KindOldRaven introducing mei right click from acrosd the map
@@BLACKOUTSSBU then she gets LW pulled, and bap lamp, and the tank rotated and all of a sudden the easy 150 widow is now has reposition and has her team backing her up. If your playing in metal ranks, yeah she dead. Metal player are afraid to turn around
You can always lengthen her charge and add a laser or red dot. A red dot would be a simple giveaway but also can be easily missed in the chaos that is Overwatch. At least giving ONE hint you're about to just walk into a completely silent forever charged shot. Making her charge longer to get to full charge also helps when people are pushing her in her face. Just nerf the charge and maybe buff her SMG so she at least has another option on top of that she still has her escape option of the hook.
To be the devils advocate here. If the charge shot is longer it would be hard or impossible to do grapple shot kills. Unless they made it so you could precharge a shot.
As someone that frequently bounces between paladins and OverWatch, I'll tell you a story about how paladins removed its one shots.
Once upon a time Paladins had the same problem. It's Widowmaker and Hanzo variant. We're dominating matches. They almost literally server admins deleting people mere moments after walking out spawn. It didn't sit well with the community. How a game with goblins in mech suits and literally dragons we're getting dominated by chick with sniper rifle.
So Hi Rez the paladins devs listened to the community (weird i know) and just removed their one shots. They do just enough damage to almost kill you, but because of their inherent slow fire rate you could probably get around the corner before you got your head blown and though if you have already taken a little bit damage, you were probably dead.
The results were only positive for the game. The snipers not being able to one shot allowed other characters that have been useless to actually get some play time. It gave more meaning to the flanker role since the sniper was leaving somebody very weak in the back line. The only person that this wasn't a positive for was the sniper
So I guess the question is should you hold your game hostage so one player in the lobby can get a montage?
Sky? i thinks that's her name was a much bigger issue than one shots because her poison dart dealt total max hp and could dot kill the knight and other tanks but was useless against dps or support.
Pretty sure they made it deal retroactive hp damage but only played for like the 1st month the game came out so idk.
Only issue is if they nerf Widow to be like this, it'll go against her "one shot one kill" character identity, which people will inevitably complain about.
Also, and this is my problem, if Widow no longer oneshots, you have to give her SOMETHING else to do to be useful or fun to play- 'cause otherwise she'd just be the character that sits in the backline getting people low and praying someone else will finish them off, which is a huge nothingburger compared to the rest of the roster.
Honestly she just needs a big rework atp. Something more engaging, and with more counterplay.
I love the “this wouldn’t be fun for the widow” when 90% of the time a widow is involved it isn’t fun for anyone else. Really hoping she gets looked at in a way that makes it more fun for all parties rather than one dominating.
Just make her 150 hp
@@BLACKOUTSSBUand remove grapple hook
@nealhodge8560 heck no
As a Sigma main, constantly denying Widowmaker with my shield feels satisfying 😂.
You can see the exact moment when they give up and switch off.
One shots dont have a place in competetive games unless there are stacking variables that lead up to it that you can respond to.
There has to be a real trade off "oh if they're able to jump half the map im done" is not a trade off.
If shes 150 hp that would solve a lot. Or they could have fall off
CS2, Valorant, and R6 all have one shots. It’s a staple of competitive first person shooters. I’m not saying that it’s right for Overwatch, but it’s silly to say that a mechanic with 20+ years of history and acceptance “doesn’t have a place”
@groundfx5733 you're right, it should be allowed when everyone can 1shot
I really hate to burst your bubble but one shots outside of overwatch are far more common in most esport titles. I mean with val or CS you can one shot with any gun and those are two of the biggest fps esports that exists. Even LoL has one shots though granted they're typically much harder to do. OW is actually one of the only games where people shout for competitive integrity and balance while willing the removal of one shots.
I had the idea of a ‘focus in’ ability in which she can aim as she currently does, but when on cooldown she aims with slight inaccuracies and retains the 300 dmg shot. She could also have a change to grapple where it doesn’t auto aim to a ledge and instead leads her to where she points. To compensate these nerfs, she could have a possible hp buff (200-225) and an increase in smg damage.
She needs like a sniper thread or something like from splatoon or something. We don't need to delete widow or somethin, to get that 1shot consistently takes actual skill with having good aim, and I'm tired of blizzard nerfing heros that actually take skill, but something does need to change with her a bit.
We don't need to delete one-shot as much as we need that giant Widow to be a skin.
Maybe a massive lens flair for all to see when her scope powers up? That way it's harder to hide as the Widow, but also still able to be played around? Idk
What if Widowmakers had a visible red dot? You can see where she's aiming but it doesn't red line all the way back to where she is.
i feel like this is actually a nice normal solution lol
So much better of an idea than the "make a giant obvious laser" I keep hearing
I wonder how it would play out to have her charge work similarly to how it does now, but after a few seconds it slowly decays back down to a set point (say 50% for example). Thus, for her to hold a corner, she would have to know when to start scoping in, or she'd want to re-scope to get the full damage.
I was thinking about a similar thought with Hanzo a few years ago, it would get pretty tiring to hold a bow indefinitely so it could make sense that he'd slightly lose pressure on his pull. Applying it to Widow instead might make more sense from a gameplay perspective though, especially considering where they took Hanzo it's less needed for him.
From my own experience in metal ranks charge is a way more lethal one shot than widow's headshot lol
I enjoy playing widow so much but can understand how playing against an oppressive one can be extremely frustrating! I honestly wouldn’t have a problem if they wanted to make her charge take longer. I do think they should add a visual indication that I’m scoped in so many games has some type of visual indication that someone is sniping and I think she definitely needs that
People saying that Sombra was a necessary evil to keep Widows in check have the wrong mindset. They are two individual problems that both need solving. If one character completely shuts down another, then that is bad character design on both ends.
In my opinion the reason why the charge shot wouldn’t work with widow is because it’s her primary fire unlike Zen,Sym, and Winston
Technically it's not her primary fire, because she has to hold the secondary fire to scope in...
2:20 Agreed to this. Why the f do I shoot cotton balls as Cass when the target is further than 40 m away and Widow can sit in Narnia and one-shot most of the roster?
People don't realize this but Cass has a lower TTK than Ashe on a 200 HP target outside of each of their falloff ranges
If you don't want damage falloff play a healer, er I mean a support. (That was meant to be a joke, but it also true) While I agree that supports should be able to defend their selves. Their defense should be evasiveness, not more damage that an damage created character. OW2 kind of went stray with the identities of each roll. Its difficult to balance a hit scan sniper, when only a dive tank, or support can pressure her. Widow belonged in OW 1 after the first few patches, but she does not work well in OW2, when supports do more damage than the DPS. This causes the supports to put pressure on her, and takes away the support keeping the DPS alive to pressure her. It is unbalanced when a Bapt or an Illari have better luck keeping a Widow hiding than an Ashe or Cass.
You're literally comparing apples to oranges 😂 Widowmaker is a squishy sniper and Cassidy is an up close duelist. Ofc hes gonna have fall off. He's one of the tankiest DPS in the game and has 2 reload mechanics and an up close stun. If you're gonna make this argument, at least make it right
This is gonna be super out there, but what if widow couldn't be healed by teammates? It fixes the pocketed/peeled widow issues, it's relatively fair considering her one shots can't be healed either, and it's honestly pretty lore-accurate considering widow is essentially a zombie who cannot feel emotions.
Another direction they could go is to give her headshot a 200 damage (with falloff) and a 100 damage bleed over 2 seconds. This still allows her to "1-shot" 300hp characters but still gives people a small window to react and potentially survive.
I think adding the red tracer that's left after she fires as something that appears as she's scoped in is the answer. It's like how snipers are in shows and stuff so I'd be cooler. 😂
Personally, being one shotted is one of the most frustrating things in a game like overwatch, if I wanted to play hide and seek or test reaction time I'd rather be in Tarkov or CS/Val, not to mention the arrow that hanzo missed happened to randomly hit me
18:38 as a decent widowmaker main that is disgusting 😂 it’s still a fun ability, but that would be abused so much but instead of that, they should just let her swing with her grappling hook but if they would remove the grappling hook I would quit Widowmaker and start playing Ashe or Ana
Widowmaker deals x2 damage normally, 240 damage headshot
Widowmaker deals x3 damage to revealed enemies, 360 damage headshot
Venom mine duration is doubled to 10 secs. It launches without drop like a Sym turret. Now has 2 charges
What is Widow just had a red dot where she was aiming. And maybe it took a second for the shot to fire after clicking the fire button?
I agree that removing her one-shot deals a hit to her characters identity. I like the laser idea but the first thing I thought of was make her more visible. Every shot she takes should make her visible for a few seconds similar to her ult or Sombra's passive. There needs to be a trade off to being able to kill someone with one click.
Widow could be lile the sniper from the archives story missions, you see a lazer before the shot and has sounds giving time to react.
My best idea is givng Widow limited scope shots and/or a slower charge on the scope. You need to make the one-shots have to be earned, so that she still works like now, but it's not dominating. At the same time, make it so that when she is steamrolling, she has to grab a health pack to regain more scope shots or something and so the enemy team is not being in pressure by the Widow all the time
As a widow main, I’ll keep one shotting everyone. Then the other team throws everyone at me (tracer, sombra, winton, Lucio) and then they lose objective cause they’re too busy with me in the back
The OW classic game i had last night was amazing. I got to play widow on kings row defence and my team was lit.
They saved my ass so many times when i should have been punished for my mistakes. Plus the mercy pocket was such a change of pace for me xD
Why not just add a big scope glare while shes aiming? Maybe increase her head hitbox size while its present
2:20 ok its fine that someone is peeling for the widow,,, that means that it's now a favorable 4v3 in the center fight
In my opinion, what makes widows one-shot more annoying than the rest is that you have no warning before it happens like you do with sigmas combo or hogs old combos.
With widow, it's just you moved slightly, and then your dead, you might not have even know there was a widow before that point
So my idea of how to change that is to rework her poison mine so that she can fire it further away from her and maybe give it a second charge
Then make it so that she can only do massive damage to people who are poisoned which keeps her one-shot but also gives her target a warning to hide (i hope that makes sense)
If widow had falloff damage I feel it would fix her
It’s so unfair to be one shot across the map
I think she should be 150 health
@@BLACKOUTSSBU How would you feel queuing with a Widow that was 150 health and dead off cooldown?
@solidforge2016 wym? Like as a teamate, idc. You say that as if tracer didn't have 150 hp and was balanced
She does
55-70m
Past 70 she can't 1 tap any 225 without a mercy boost
Yes 70 is quite long but that is a heavy nerf on some of her best maps like Havana, Circuit Royale and Colosseo
@tuckmasterg problem, most widows have a merxy
I’d say with the focus thing, maybe make it so it has to be an enemy you don’t currently see, and make it much shorter
I think making it so she only gains scope charge when her scope is zeroed in on an enemy hitbox would help alot with her risk, also GREATLY increase the zoom, its a sniper, she shouldn't be able to see everything around her. Personally I think all charging heroes should have indefinite charge
She wouldn't be able to do flick shots which is a big skill expression, she would just feel clunky.
I had a thought that they could replace the one shot with something just as powerful in giving a wall hack to the whole team as long as a full charge widow is scoped in a target
Not fully thought out, but it could be more interactive than sitting in the back and collecting oneshots
So for widow one of his solutions is to give her the spartan lazer from halo? I would be kinda down to play
test that
(hold down button to charge, though in halo with a laser showing where the shot goes.)
You don’t have to remove her one shot. You just have to give her drop offs and weaknesses. Like scope glint, a laser or a grapple nerf
I am so tired of Widow . 6 of my last 7 games had one.
Getting one shot is not fun. But if they add a laser at very least . Sometimes I feel like she isn’t looking at me but then it turns out she is and it’s hard to tell when she’s far away.
So I just have 2 requests
-Add a laser
-Increase time to charge to 100%
For how much power one character has it’s the least they can do.
The charge/release to shoot sounds horrific
Good luck training out 7 years of muscle memory 😭
It would be genuinely torture to re learn all that no thanks
1 tank was Widow's biggest buff. Total team Hp dropped from, what, 2000 on average to 1200-1400?
Yeah should be more of an 2 shot at range but 1 shot up close within 30meters but her Ult can critical like in her Mirrorwatch with passive quick charge without holding scope. So she has risk outside but is stronger with using her Ultimate.
Overwatch players want to sign a consent form everytime they die 😂
Bring Widow in and watch Ashe players grin widely :p Having said that I find facing a decent Widow very frustrating. What makes it worse is that there appear to be quite a few Widow OTP alt accounts running loose in the lower ranks. Somehow their aim and positioning is so much better than that of the other players it's hilarious at times. Usually standard icons, skins and private profiles etc. You know the drill.
hell even with widows range and 1 shot ashe players are grinning same with ana it's part of the fun to try and counter the 1 shot bandit
I keep seeing people recommend lasers or red dots, but what about glint? At least to me, it seems like a good idea, so you dont have to search for where the widow is.
Sad thing is, more people defend the one-shot yet complain about being tickled to death over 5-10 seconds by Moira.
Time to give Tracer a oneshot so she stops being Tracer-76.
I'm of course joking, but I feel people are way too quick with the Soldier 76 comparisons whenever we're dealing with reducing toxic play patterns. I must say that I quite like the focus idea. A change from the suggestion in the video is to make the loss of focus scale with the damage taken. Getting hit by a stray tracer shot for a couple of damage shouldn't affect her as much as being hit by junkrat's mine or granade.
Outside of ults and combos one shots don’t belong in ow. They could make her ult give her the one shot back. One shots have always been a problem hog, hanzo, doom, and even rein. I just can’t believe that we nerfed all the combos and hanzo one shot you know the things that take skill but they leave the easiest one shot in the game. They could leave her at the damage boost threshold so mercy, zen etc can allow her to oneshots sorta like Ashe or soj. All non ult/combos need to go.
The Ps and Bs were strong on this one.
I like the puppet show examples throughout the video XD
My personal suggestion would have been a high-noon like charging. If you see a player long enough in scope, you get to oneshot them, but they get to see and maybe hear that you can now send them on a 10 second taxi back to spawn. So, if you get attacked by a tracer and you never saw them, you would need a short time of having her in your scope to go oneshot (which you still need to aim for, i dont want perma high noon widow). It would even create the possibility of buffing the venom mine and infra sight by having it count as charging too.
What i personally dont think should be is widow (or hanzo, but thats besides the context of this video) having a oneshot, which counts to me as a "you shouldnt have" button on the list of annoying things in overwatch.
There’s so many hyper mobile hero’s now and it’s not like playing ow classic where she can just destroy a tank diving her. If you can click on a head that’s actively trying to dodge and avoid you as a sniper it being a one shot should be your reward. Her grapple is pretty op but that’s all that really needs to be changed
just add a text on your screen that says "targeted" when your aimed at by window (if her charge passes 50%)
What I feel would make the 1 shot feel fair is reducing the size of her bullet. Health would be good to clean her up faster but watching killcams and seeing her miss by a good margin and still dying is blood boiling. I have no problem with a well placed shot but when 7/10 times she doesn’t even hit me in the head that’s where it gets frustrating. I’m platinum so I can’t speak for the perception of higher ranks and the accuracy gap.
her projectile size is .05 and I think the smallest in the game it's already pretty much pinpoint what you're seeing is more likely a visual bug or a character hitbox issue
What you're seeing is almost always server latency on your end. They hit their shot on their side, you just see it at a tiny delay that makes it look like they miss
Maybe they should revert the projectile size for Widow. I feel that the size increase is mostly to blame here, ever since she has become more unfun to play against. Being a hit scan sniper, making the shots have to be more precise, can be rewarding, and decrease being OP. There is a problem if I play widow and someone comments, because my aim sucks. To top it off with a little peaking and lag comp, she only needs to shoot right next to your head. As long as 1 pixel of the hit box is exposed, its a hit. It makes is frustrating, that hair expands the hit box, and enables head shots so easily. Shrink the projectile size and maybe make her hit box a bit larger.
I got very lucky one time when I was playing Genji and I deflected a Widow's shot on me and my deflected shot headshotted her. I don't think I recorded it
I’ve said this since 2017, I think widow should be bullet travel time than hit scan. Most FPS games for sniper based have bullet travel time rather hit scan, but it also rewards the player for predicting correctly.
I’m sure there’s better options but this is my personal opinion.
Then play Hanzo?
Giving it travel time makes it a projectile not hitscan
At that point Hanzo is right there and is more versatile
@ ah yes. Let me play a character that you have to arch rather than widow that goes in a straight line.
Real talk, I get it but at the same time what do u do with widow? Cause ya can’t remove her one shot cause her identity is gone, can’t nerf her health cause she will just pop like a dollar store water ballon, bullet travel is one of the few safe options. It will still require her to position and play smart, but additionally making her have to predict where her opponent goes. Again I’m sure there’s better options but I think bullet travel time could be thrown in as a possibility.
As a Hanzo main I disapprove of this message!
Sometimes it's 6 shots 1 kill
*make it so widow can only scope in with her sniper rifle when crouched like a real sniper*
Boom Roasted.
forget widow, I want junkrat dead I hate this character so much. Shoot him from afar he just jumps away and keeps spamming bombs from behind cover. Try to get close, get oneshot.
Also Emongg it would be great to see you reacting to Glassmaster's videos
Why don't they make it that you literally have to hit 100% to one shot squishy characters. But make it slightly slower to reach 100% Make it she can't snipe up close and if she does it won't do as DMG. There's lots of ways to fix her and not make her busted
Maybe its me but even when a widows really good, you CAN kill her. You js need to be patient but overwatch players know everything ab patience and still cant do it
Okay lets be real most people are probably around gold meaning widow is useless there she doesn't bring any useful abilities to the table , if she gets a nerf make her ult something more than just a wallhack its really lame for an ult
People who whine about Widow are such babies.
Also why am I not surprised that the person who made this video loves Symmetra?
Funny been using her a bit in classic. A lot of fun. 😅 here’s a lobby for ya e, did I carry? 🧐😂 jkjk but code anyway YDWRA3
One shots do not belong in a hero shooter. A game like overwatch is a team based game with abilities. To have a characters primary fire delete an enemy doesn't leave any room for team play or counterplay. It should do a huge chunk of damage that forces the enemy to react and use cooldowns. So either your team can followup and finish the kill, or it forces their supports to peel and use abilities.
You can argue they dont belong in overwatch, but they are a staple in hero shooters lol. I mean every hero in valorant can 1 tap you in the head and apex has had numerous weapons that can one shot. Those games are also teambased but you dont see their players going out of their way to demand the removal of those features
Snipers are constantly a complaint in shooters but I say take a page from both TF2 and destiny here.
In TF2 full charge is way longer, like 5 seconds, but can kill heavy. Obviously widow doing 500 damage is insane, but how about 3 second charge time and it scales to a higher amount that doesn't one shot tanks. Maybe you can even play with it a bit more so it can charge up to 5 seconds for 500 damage but does less at closer ranges or body shot damage is greatly decreased. On top of this add the laser dot so players know a sight line is occupied. The biggest complaint is turning a corner to immediately die with zero warning, so adding one could help alongside other things.
In destiny 1 snipers were a staple of pvp. There were places you only went if you could fight a sniper and more often than not you found one there. To counter this (aside from mobility) two things existed: flinch and lens glare. Flinch may feel wrong in ow, but it can give tanks a little more to do against her as they helplessly watch their teammates fall over so maybe exploring that could be nice. Lens glare, like the laser pointer, is not the only change needed, but it'd be awesome. Being able to see a glare and immediately know you gotta move makes death a tad more fair as you knew she's getting ready for something. It incentivizes widow to not be scoped for awhile and makes it easy to dive and react to her. While it wouldn't solve the issue entirely, I think it'd be a good addition.
The final idea I have would be to play with her zoom. Either if it zoomed more in as charge grew or you had to toggle a higher zoom for the increased multiplier, otherwise it's similar to Ashe gun. Now she still has the close range skill shot (a bit better) and can stay far away, but now has to choose. Zoom changes sounds simple and useless, but I promise you that trying to use a 4x or 8x after being in a 2x can be pretty disorienting.
For the love of game god. Its a easy fix. make widow's hp 150-175. Not even hard making widow a one shot glass cannon. Easy to take out but powerful to take you out doing 300 damage at full charge. why people have to over think everything?
It's because good Widowmakers will kill anyone that even enters their LOS. How are you gonna kill Widow unless you enter her LOS?
@@solidforge2016 easily with 150-175 hp. anna can 2 tap her ass. ash, hazo, Winston, diva, echo sticky nades. The low hp makes her easyer to kill. Head shot on her would be brutal. sombra 1 hack an cube widow be cooked. Also just dogde the shots. I never had a problem running from cover to cover tweeking out to avoid a head shot while pot shoting a widow. Its her high hp that makes her a threat since you cant down her fast enough. I tested it 150 hp widow an 1k games 0 complaining about her. since she was a breeze to turn an deal with 90% Of the characters could deal with her no problem from range. 20% could get up to ger face an she was screwd.
You should never consider removing 1shots out of an FPS. Poor positioning needs to be punishable. I also don't like the suggestions in that video, like regarding her charged shot, etc. I despise all the "nerf X hero " talk when the option of buffing the things that counter her exists. Bring other heroes up to the point where they can challenge her and she is in danger more often, instead of nerfing her or drastically changing her and risking destroying yet another hero's identity.
no THEN I CAN'T PLAY WIDOW :(
I honestly don't care much about widow. The only time I find her annoying is when the entire team is petrified of her, refuses to do anything to counter or mitigate her and still just stand in the middle of the point with no protection to get sniped. But I personally rarely get killed by a widow. Its usually once and then its "oh they have a widow, better use cover and angles". The one shots that annoy me are the hanzo one shots that are just spammed into an opening. No aiming, half the time his vision is blocked by the tank or other clutter and just randomly gets a headshot on you while you are sprinting across a doorway for 1 second. I get that he needs it because otherwise he is useless, but its still annoying as hell.
Not a high rank take. A character that forces you to play differently by just existing is tough to play against. The more “angles” you have to play and sight lines you have to avoid gives the enemy more map to control and dominate allowing for them to push the objective uncontested
Hero identity is bullshit.
Play styles and interesting ways the game could be played are what should be prioritised
I wish I had time to make videos to nerf the heroes I don't play. If it's so unfair then play a better widow.
personally, its the fact that its an instant kill that makes her so oppressive, theres no way to interact with her, OR the damage she deals.. if she did DOT, like ana i feel like playing into her would feel far less terrible, and it would (imo) fit with her character fantasy of an assassin! like... shes a spider... a black widow... let her dmg type reflect venomous spiders! the team would be able to react to it if its DOT but you could let the dmg numbers stay insanely high! to reward more accurate shots there could be a damage on hit effect on crit shots as well, maybe somewhere between 75-100 dmg on hit for crits with around 275-300 DOT for non crit shots. i get that her whole theme revolves around 1 shotting the enemy but why does it have to be an INSTANT one shot?
in addition to that just think of the psychological damage it would do to a player to be hiding and see their health drain away from seemingly nothing until they get healed or cleansed!
(edit: i havent watched the whole video yet i left this comment in the beginning as these are my thoughts on widow based on my own observations playing into her, mainly on support)
i think rather then removing one shot, they need to increase the charge time so it takes longer to actually one shot someone. widow keeps her lethality, but shes no longer capable of like...dueling people at her worst range with ease. she becomes diveable again. and she cant just "LOL CLICKIN UR HEAD BYEBYE" on a dive hero who tries to jump her.
she can still evade the diver, but its not like before where she can jump away, scope in, and immediately one shot them before they can catch up to her.
Bring a sniper...closer to the battle. that makes no sense. shes a sniper. i think one shots are fine, i honestly think this game has to much sustain. we are going back to the overwatch 1 problem. things live to long. i miss having to play smart with starts.
"wouldnt be fun for the widow" - fuck it ill say it, WHO CARES. Honestly they have dominated the game for so long. She single handedly makes both teams revolve around her not to mention half the lobby doesnt get to play the game because of her. No hero in the game should have the ability to negate half the map, negate half the lobby from playing, instantly delete more then half the lobby the minute they even try to play. NO hero should have that.
I cant take that guy seriously, he is trying to compare other heroes one shot abilities that give you TONS of room to avoid them or counter play them and those one shots versus a widow who plays point and click adventure from ACROSS THE MAP without you even standing a chance. The fact he uses the comparison like that is some serious brain rot bot mentality. There REALLY isnt more to her then standing back and 1 tapping people from a mile away.
And oh yeah lets get her a grapple she can hide in higher unreachable places, that dude is seriously on some crack.
There is only two ways they could fix widow, either drastically DROP her range to one shot so something like 10-20M OR Massively increase her charge time.
You don't have to pause to react!
first 3 minutes of video, you played less than 60 sec of the video and then talked over pause for over 2min.
Widow is the sniper. That's what she does. If you delete one-'shot, you have to delete widow from the game, and that would suck for the widow players. SO no, don't delete one-shot
They dont need to delete one shot. What they need to do is one of the 3 changes(not all 3): Make her 150 hp so most characters can kill her easily/I shot her, make her hage fall of damage, make her have a snipers glimmer
One shot does not belong in a hero shooter. She should do a huge chunk of damage, but not be able to one shot any full hp target. This would let her finish off anyone who took damage from her team, or force the enemies to react and use cooldowns after hitting a shot.
@@pkrames WIdow was one of the earliest heroes in OW. The "bad design" is not fault of the one-shot. The problem is on the maps. Most maps are bad for Widow, but when they are good and the other team has no positioning, widow dominates. And yes, one-shots belong in FPS games (always did)
@@gabriel.cercal depends. One-shot need to be balanced in fps games and most games it has been easily balanced but overwatch it's simple to balance but hasn't been balanced