Maphacking vs The BEST (SERRAL) StarCraft II Player ever
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Patreon: / harstem
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#harstem #SC2 #StarCraft2 
Игры
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if harstem were analyzing this replay he would say "clearly not a hacker, they didn't respond at all to something on the minimap"
which horror game is your profile pic from?
@@Yannis-ms4vl It's actually from your mom's sex tape.
@@oOOoOphidian it's so frustrating when he says that and it's an obvious cheater (Don't like term Map Hacks as that makes it sound cool to do)
@@jaya3582 I get it because he wants to have a lot of proof before sending something off to blizzard, but yeah it is a little frustrating
@@oOOoOphidian I understand that too, but there's been more than a few times where he completely misses some big shady things they did and only sees it when he (sometimes) rewinds the footage. The biggest indicators to me are when they click the mini map and land directly onto a unit coming by; Or when they want to attack the base but look ahead at everything for a few seconds or a-moving directly to an enemy on a map.
He's wondered many times if these map hacks have certain features but It's also very easy to see what features these map hacks contain with a brief Google search (being able to see buildings/upgrades in progress and cloaked/burrowed units) and there's many people willing to dish out big amounts of money for them...There's even auto build to play the game for you in these "map hack" programs.. makes no sense to me why people want that.
Serral: “can you see burrowed units?”
Harstem: “no”
Serral: gets infestors and lurkers.
Harstem: surprised Pikachu face. 😂😂😂😂
i wonder at what point he already researched burrow
@@ElVid serral is good enough that i would believe him doing it early and borrow ling scouts knowing harstem can see all and therefore thinks he isnt scouted ;D
serral is the one player who i am waiting for to use nydus worms to transport workers to safety and to enemy corner bases to steal as much mineral from there side off the map (it's a 400ish mineral investment to set a nydus and a hatchery, after that moving workers through cost very little time and with some decent vision moving all the drones back into the nydus if need be should be easy. make 2 nydus if it's sniped too easily ^^
@@Erebus2075 if serral would play terran he'd play two dozen orbitals just to scan a base and send in tons of mules to deprive the opponent of minerals and gas.
He can still SEE the burrowed units when they are burrowed without detection but, his units can't interact with them without detection.
Serral's scouting and anticipation skills are so strong that it's like he has maphacks anyway, so this seems fair.
yep 😂
And there you've cut to the heart of the matter. Maphacks aren't as useful in the late game because any opponent who makes it that far is almost certainly more skilled than you and at that point they've got enough counter-intel that the maphack isn't much of an advantage anymore. They'll just beat you down slowly. I watched the tempo of this game slowly slide from Harstem to Serral almost in sync with Harstem's gas reserves.
That's honestly the problem with the zerg race. They keep nerfing the units and people who can't scout so cleanly suffer and complain that the race is weak. When they should have been nerfing the vision because that's what puts serral ahead of everyone else.
He knows everything that you can possibly be doing..
@@ghosthamster6521 Terran's late game vision is equally as strong as Zerg, perhaps even more so since they can just drop scans wherever they want and they will have enough OCs to be able to do that almost constantly. Not to mention sensor towers.
Getting 4 drones with 3 Oracles and maphack just on 3rd dive speaks a lot about Serral
@@exeggcutebenedict I think he got a few more on purpose. Zerg Players do that sometimes if they know there is no killing move coming, but its just harrass
Please do an interview with Serral so you two can discuss about this game, and how he felt about it. I would love to have your shared inputs on that one.
yes I need that
Even knowing Serral is the best ever, I still don't think I quite appreciated his overwhelming skill until I saw this. Watching his side of the minimap, theres constantly multiple swarms moving around. I cant comprehend how hes able to be in multiple places at once like this and keep track of it all so flawlessly, all while responding to Harstems every move and microing individual units. Bow down to the GOAT!
It really is impossible to overstate just how good Serral is. Even with full vision it never felt like Harstem was in control. The multitasking is just too much
@@Macantor13 yeah I think you nailed it a multitasking disparity and ability to prioritize on the Fly made up for the gap of having basically perfect vision
this is consistent with how sc2 works. the worse player will only win on information asymetry and the better player will win on mechanics, so every minute that passes by, serral's chance of winning goes up. maphack lets you beat worse players because that info asymmetry is gone but doesnt help much against better players. this is true for every hacker that has played the game
@@luxon4 not only does it allow you to be worst players but it's also going to give you an edge to 8 players that are better than you are but not enough to overcome such a huge disparity
Harstem according to aligulac is #34 in the world, which by itself is crazy good and better than 99% of StarCraft players. But Serrall is in a totally different league which is so weird to think about how one could be that much better in a game that is known and has constraints.
a reminder thou Serral did know about the map vision
this is so good, it is like watching a high level game being cast and played at the same time.
LOL my thoughts exaxlty
i remember heromarine on one of his streams one time saying something along the lines of maphacks aren't enough to beat someone like serral and it's very cool to actually see that being tested.
Only way I can think of would be to pick a cheese as soon as possible, based on his very first choices. Proxy where you know his overlord will not see, marine rush when very greedy, etc.
Like knowing you are about to get punched in the face but to slow to do anything about it
@@asbjrnfossmo1589 This doesn't work, I can already tell you the "very first choices" Serral makes ahead of time. I can tell you that in ZvP he will 16 hatch (17 hatch on third if pylon blocked), take an 18 gas, 17 pool, make 2 queens when the pool finishes and 1 pair of lings to prevent a pylon block at the third, which he will take at ~32 supply after lingspeed. He will make a third queen and if he sees no chrono on the gateway he will have 4 lings and he'll go up to 8 lings against double chrono on the gateway.
There is no cheese that beats this.
Also "marine rush when very greedy", what does that even mean. I can also tell you what exactly he will do against terran. You also can't "proxy where you know his overlord will not see" because you don't know where he will move his overlords ahead of time.
@@asbjrnfossmo1589 The thing is that Serral usually plays his games pretty safe vs. cheeses - the theoretical counter to the way Serral plays is to be greedy vs. him and try to beat him in the lategame because you can usually pretty safely bet that Serral isn't going to be cheesing you so you don't need to spend resources being safe vs. cheeses.. but that's only in theory - for that strategy to work you need to actually be at a comparable skill level as him in the lategame (which people just aren't), otherwise the difference in skill level will still overshadow having a build order advantage.
@@asbjrnfossmo1589 I still think it wouldn't work against Serral because he knows exactly when to scout where, what to look for, and he does it every single time. Like, even if his overlord doesn't see the proxy he can still tell (or at least assume & prepare) by the stuff he does not see in your base. And he never seems to play that greedy.
4:15: "How do map hackers lose games?"
33:28: "I guess he's just better than me."
he said "guess we about to find out" to be fair
@@strammerdetlef that takes away from the funniness of the post, though
@@hinney827 kinda
Wow, we asked, and he delivered. Thanks, captain.
Five seconds later: "Dear Harstem, today I played aginst someone I'm pretty sure is a map hacker. Please look at this replay and tell me if you find something strange."
*submits to harstem hunts hackers
This was very fun to watch.
Imagine trading vs a protoss like that, when he sees everything and you dont. Impossible!
EDIT: Now i think Serral should send this replay to Harstem, and complain it might be a hacker :D
lmao that would be hilarious
32:20 interceptors coming back from being recalled on other side of map
Loollll
good eyes, interesting, i wonder if you had nexuses all over the map, could you recall a carrier all over the map and have interceptors doing laps?
Let's gooo. Serral vs Harstem, my two favorite players.
Serral, for the 50th time this game:
***Sighs***
"Ohhh myy..."
Harstem finally understands how Maru feels vs late-game Serral.
Sensor towers and missile turrets everywhere, Orbital Command map-hacks, and the burrow-boys still cause you to have bad trades. Serral's just on another level.
I would have loved to hear a convo between you two about this game. Just to get impressions about how this could be used to help people train.
I think no fog of war is a great way to train. You should be ready to counter everything theoretically perfectly. Harstem seemed to find he didn’t know how to build a perfect late stage army, and overall did not have much of a plan that countered his opponent. Playing the wary parts of the game over and over and losing late game constantly should make you realize you need to learn how to play the late game differently. Maybe more gates and tech switches? He never used his mineral bank, so he certainly could afford another ten gates late game. Trade your ground army as cost effectively as you can, then tech switch to a mobile ground force.
@@JFox4587 The problem of that training is that it poorly translate to not hacked games cause you will not have that smooth early with perfect tech info meaning that you will never set late game in the same situation as the hacked training.
The only utility it has it to highlight weakpoints in late game but it will not help iron them out anyway (you cannot train late game army control effectively when you map hack cause you start moving way earlier than normal with hack on as Harstem pointed out during the video)
@@LorisEnsatzuken ya im not saying exclusively train this way, just that if you cant win late game without fog, you know you don't understand late game. either you dont understand army compositions, or you dont understand positioning, or you can blame macro, but i dont think that is the case cuz they are just banking so its not like you have to hurry up and spend ur money effectively. '
just saying it's a good way to train your late game, but you shouldn't do it a lot obviously cuz you have to be used to playing with fog.
26:40 "Y'know i feel less stressed right now. I am much more confident. All decisions were made so ahead of time that...
Serral is just GOAT. When you are the best, everyone watch your games, everyone tries to play like you, everyone tries to counter you and you still win most games. That is insane
This is really good practice for Serral cause now I'm at the same level of toss pros
- Oh crap!
4:16 "How do maphackers lose games?"
continues to lose the game
In fairness he did say "I guess we are about to find out"
@@juansaldana7976 he knew it's coming
I really wish you popped in in a call with him and get his perspective of what the game felt like
yeah me 2
Harstem you allowed Serral to use his overwhelming Cuteness towards his victory and your defeat.
"He might just be better than me" Harstem humor ftw
This Serral guy is a guy to keep your eyes on. He might be going somewhere in the SC2 scene!
might
GG Harstem. I think this really trains the game theory and rhythm of rotations from Serral. Also think that surprisingly you still needed lots of detectors despite having maphacks.
It's hard to comprehend just how good serral is. He is Pro++
It's just incredible how serral controls his units, you can see the map how everything moves and the captain can't be bothered with every little movement, he had to choose were to keep his attention and Serral really capitalize on that. incredible player
One of the few ways Serral can get a challenge anymore: have the opponent literally cheat xD
Basically how Reynor trains before big events... --> Against an archon team of Grandmasters. The multitask and apm goes up to an inhuman level.
Thats a great idea for sc2 Videos. Also props to serral for playing these kinds of games. I also think about his games against uthermal with the hp disadvantage on units
Unironically a good experiment.
I’ve often wondered how much map hacking truly helps-unless the player learns how to properly integrate map hacking in their strategy it could easily become a liability. Especially with the inherent tilt factor of losing while hacking 😂😂
It keeps you pretty safe from cheese, like proxy rax and cannon rush. It basically guarantees you will live until the mid game. Now, with the pros, that is a pretty short time, but imagine bronze through platinum.
yeah and esp when the other player even KNOWS u have full vision. and that players name is serral lol
@@asbjrnfossmo1589 Maphack won't save Silver, probably not even Gold, from cannon rush. The problem is, a good cannon rusher sends 2 or even 3 probes. Metal league player fixates on the first one, fights with it, triumphantly kills a cannon: there are 5 cannons elsewhere by then. It doesn't matter that the player could see them: they don't have time to look, or skill to handle multiple threats.
This is a perfect example of "metadata" vs "data." It's like two different games. You're playing with your eyes and he's playing with an assembled model of expectations based on what he knows of your game state and goals.
Sure, Serral knew Harstem had full vision but seeing such dominance is still insane.
That's the difference between being an elite player and being the best
I'm one of the (probably dozens) of people to suggest this exact video on your other "map hack versus pro"
So glad to see it come out
Fun video. I think in a Bo7 you would win. I bet it takes time to adjust to the new information from map hacks. Very impressive win from Serral!
Serral is not human. Holy cow
It's so wild the difference in multitasking. Serral plays like he's in archon mode. There's like, two dudes in there simultanenously, it doesn't make sense.
You can tell Serral is ramping up his training for the upcoming season of who wants to be a grandmaster
Bro it feels like the infestors are the ones feedbacking the Templar the entire time this game, also the value he gets out of the lings and infestors, and the map control he gets with the broods and corrupters is somehow still mindblowing, he just gets every perfect trade and preserves every unit, makes no mistakes, forces every single unit movement and always has every unit sufficiently in position, actual GOAT status!
yeah true, altho I think on a second or third try harstem would maybe get better trades when he gets more used to it and might engage in better positions where serrals army is far away from
This is what I was waiting for!
What?!? No "creatures of the sea"?
Harstem has been hacked!
Alternative title: Praising serral for half an hour strait while forgetting how to play normal starcraft II
32:10 interceptor recall and how they fly back over the whole map (arriving 10 sec later)
"How does he get that?! I HAVE MAP HACKS!" hahahaha
reminds me to a comment from winter years ago, "the difference in skill level between you guys(viewers who haven´t touch the game in 10 years) and me is about the same difference between me and Serral"
i used a map hack once in wings of liberty. honestly as a new player it didnt help much, but what it did help with was learning what timing to expect or what pattern typically indicated a drop or advancing units or expansions. anytime i saw something that WOULD have been crazy beneficial to know through the map hacks i quietly resigned the game and just took it as a learning opportunity (kind of like a "what went wrong" in replay, but live. the one I had (only for 3 games or so) used coloured squares to indicate structures or unit types. i could set it so medivacs or drop units as white squares, bases as red squares, etc. so to answer your questions (unless map hacks have developed in the last 10 years) you cannot see burrowed units with map hacks, i think it is essentially what removal of fog of war would show, but only on the minimap.
In this mod, you have maphacks, but your units like tempests have vision. Which means they can shot beyond their normal vision range so even more advantage.
1:15 Lmao small price to pay indeed 😂
You should get some friends to play 3 games vs eachother, then only in 1 or 2 of the 3 matches get them to use the maphack mod. Then you have the job of finding which game someone was using the maphack mod. Prove to us your maphack detective skills.
Serral's early queen position was perfect and deflected all the oracles. Past a certain point, the creep and overlord spread essentially is Serral's maphack so you can't even find paths to surprise him. Would love to see you do this vs Clem with a blink timing and see how much stronger it is when you know exactly where to blink :P
It is a little bit baffling that Harstem has full map vision and doesnt even tries to shut down serrals scouting.
Found the experienced maphacker
I mean, he is trying. You want him to catch every individual ling that gets sent across the map before it even reaches his base? That does not sound easy.
@@joetec6674 I mean. Maybe, maybe not. But I was more thinking of overlords spotting for a very long time unharmed.
@@dfsdsfsdfsadfdsfa223 tbf I was thinking a while for a clever comeback but i dont have one.
You want him to counter his overlord but also be able to survive if serral pools?
Fun to watch. I like the comment "How do map hackers lose games?" Well... I love how you stopped yourself there.
At 14min game time. Insane to see Serral play against the legendary Harstem using maphacks and at least breaking even.
Harstem: "This is amazing! I can see the whole map, and always have my units in the right position! This feels so unfair, and I love it!"
Terran players with mass Orbital Commands: >.>
I’ve explained it before but using map hacks can be extremely overwhelming and many players crumble because they have no idea what to do. Your hacks tell you your opponent is making dts and now you’re panicking because you have no way of responding to it without it looking unnatural.
Before watching, I thought an irl hacker actually matched up against Serral!
Little did I know, it was actually pre-agreed... _with one of the best Protoss players in Europe_ (currently ranked #34 Worldwide and #16 amongst non-Koreans according to Aligulac).
Serral is *terrifying.* 💀
I think the funniest part was muscle memorey taking over and harstem throwing arround revelations left and right. DUDE you have maphacks you can see the army the whole time
lol true but often it was to reveal the cloaked units tbf
@@strammerdetlef Yea later in the game it was, i meant early on when he started to have oracles
32:10 Interceptors got recalled to the bottom base and then had to fly back to their carriers. I didn't know such a thing was possible!
Esto me gusta, y bastante porque es una Prueba Controlada, es decir se tiene un jugador profesional y del otro lado un creador de Contenido, por ende es una prueba controlada, no como en otros casos que usan trampas de manera ilícita.
Buen Video
"Good sir, we don't want to fight you quite yet." Had me dying rofl.
WOW! This is absolutely insane! Good Game Harstem!! OMG no idea how he STILL beat you. He's a monster...
hahaha! I would love to see Lowko's reaction if he casts this game.
Harstem : "ok so today i'm gonna use a maphack so i can see everything"
Serral : --.--
15:58 : "OH I CANT SEE !!!"
Theres just no beating him.....hes too strong....too fast....he cant be nerfed. Thats why hes the GOAT.
Fair play for Harstem for uploading this video. Can we all take a moment to appreciate that Serral just beat a 6.5k professional Toss player with maphacks...
so nice of the GOAT harstem to give this up and coming "serral" guy a shoutout
As a creature of the sea, I feel insulted that I was not welcomed this game.
This is the best pilot episode of "Is Serral imba or do I suck"
I don't comment much but I've been watching for years and this video really prompted me to tell you how much I love your content. Hilarious. Keep up the great work Captain o7
Serral was just wondering incredible. Really on a other level
Next has gotta be the interview video
the timing of "Do you need detection" is like a Rosetta Stone for us Zerg players holy f*ng shucks
I love the constant revelations on the corruptors. He might be used to it.
when you can finally clearly see everything all you end up seeing is there is nothing you can do
"How does he get that? I've got maphacks!"
- Harstem, 2024
32:42 it comes down to you losing high templar and archons to lings
yeah was not his best game guess he needs to get used to have full vision first
If you wanna push your maphack advantage, you need to do something that they aren’t ready for.
Lings ate the last expansion up a ton, needed more defense static defense and gates to protect your buildings. The problem was that the lings were cost effective, while you have no cost effective way to spend your mineral bank. Letting high value gas units trade with lings hurt you big time
love it when protoss players make use of canons, shows me they understand how to play the faction. its always good to defend an expo from harass
haha i love you harstrem you always have this hidden humor in every word you say
WOW!!!!!!! I was thinking just a week ago
.. the captn vs serral...but the captn has map hacks... A dream came true
I don't quite understand this, Harstem knows that PvZ lategame has been figured out for quite a while, and it is tempests + ground, he even says so in the end. The main thing you have to do as protoss is ALWAYS keep your HT in positions to feedback and those must hit, the rest is then just pretty much an auto-win for protoss.
The engagements are not easy to do with the multi-tasking and all, but numerous protosses showed it's quite possible, among them harstem himself :D
I'm a serral fanboy though, so I'm happy he even won this game :D
Good one Serral allowing this! Super interesting test @Harstem , nice one
Nice game i hope that you can use this in practice and maybe get your revenge soon enough
I have a tournament concept : a team tournament, where in every team encounter, each team chose one member that is gonna have maphacks. They take turns in 1v1 as BO7 or something, and at any point, a team can try to remove the maphack of an oppenent, but they get only one try per encounter.
This means the maphacker player has to hide his mapchack and other member must try to detect the maphacker. Their could often have 1v1 with both players maphacking also that could be fun.
Props to Harstem for posting this game. Serral is a god.
Late game Zerg army with vipers and infestors looks borderline invincible, ngl
I recomend to give it a try. Only Serral makes it work like that. Other pros and normals like me (lower Master level) cant do this against a Protoss death ball.
Not seen the invisible units is BIG disadvantage. I usualy see them.
The big question here is Zerg imba. No maybe even underpowered
Is Serral Imba?
Yes
You almost get the feeling Serral was playing with maphack. Dang Serral is so good, en we all now how good Harstem is.
if you were to give this power to Serral, it would turn it into "Survival" game mode, it would be fun to watch who could last longest against him.
"he does know that I'am hacking, which is obviously a big advantage for HIM" - Harstem 2024
Seeing Clem try this mod would be cool that guy has the apm for some crazy plays i assume
Dont blame yourself for losing bro you technically fight the Messi from Sc2 The michael Jordan of RTS
I feel like maps vs serral just removes the illusion that you have a chance
I think we love to see what Serral think after the match
insanely fun to watch. One of the most back and forth PvZ games I've seen. I actually, think zerg is a bit overtuned. The speed of some of their units are slightly too high.
I think this Serral guy is going to go places in the Pro StarCraft 2 scene.
1:25
The names of your first children is a small price to pay for a chance at beating Serral
To be fair, Serral performs even better when he already knows his opponent is using hacks. Meanwhile, Harstem didn't demonstrate the level of performance one would expect from someone using hacks, precisely because his opponent was already aware that he was facing a hacker.
Really interesting format, Harstem 👍🏻
WHo is next from champions on a queue to play against you with map hack?