Parts of this overlap with one of my favorite made-for-TV movies, Pirates of Silicon Valley, which follows Gates and Jobs in their rivalries up to the mid-90s. I especially like the framing devices of each of their respective Steves (Ballmer and Woz) semi-narrating what's happening as a sort of greek chorus. Specifically the negotiation scene with Gates and IBM is remarked upon by actor Ballmer as so full of chutzpah that it should be framed as a painting and taught in history books. I don't think Gary Kildall of CP/M fame is mentioned at all in it though. And this is the first I've heard of him being difficult to work with, he seemed such an affable easygoing fellow on his appearances in The Computer Chronicles. I knew there was something that went on that cost CP/M the IBM deal but I never read too deep into specifics. Just that it had something to do with his wife and/or a plane.
As you can imagine pirates of Silicon Valley is one of my favorite movies and there where at least two rewatches involved while scripting parts of this video. I was also surprised that the CPM story was not included in it. There are several versions floating around about what exactly happened (at least from 3 different interviews) but I went with the one from the source book for consistency
In all I've read it just seems Kildall was a phenomenal programmer but not a good businessman. Not a knock on him as that seemed to be the norm in silicon valley and it seemed he lived like some sort of rock star cowboy. I loved Kildall in the Computer Chronicles.
Yeah, this is the story as presented by Bill Gates and IBM. IBM being a much, much, much, bigger player means their narrative gets told and heard. And since Kildall is dead and can't defend himself, this is the only story we'll ever hear.
We will explore that further in part 3, but in attempts to avoid a IBM monopoly two more where created: Intel and Microsoft. It is a fascinating set of circumstances
@@LowSpecGamerIntel's really not a monopoly (although they've definitely gotten close at times). AMD has regularly had significant periods of absolutely kicking their ass, and we are currently living in one right now. 🤷 AMD's fastest server CPU's are literally around TWO TO THREE TIMES as fast as Intel's and like ≈4-5x more power efficient. They aren't even remotely close tbh. And as such Intel's been bleeding marketshare for basically like 6+ years straight now.
@@Voidkitty_this I would love to see tbh. Windows history reaching back into dos is interesting for sure but I just can't approach windows or Mac these days because of invasive telemtry that doesn't turn off properly even if you opt out. Linux history tho even dating back to Unix and minix would be great to see 😅
Can I say that I really appreciate the extra artwork made for these videos, it really adds to things and makes me actually want to watch instead of just listen (dealing with eye strain, getting old sucks, I advise against it). Edit: I just noticed you credit the artist in the description! That makes it easier to say specifically thank you, Maiku no Koe!
I know this is a joke but the history of physical & manual pre-digital pre-electronic computers is absolutely fascinating. Just like industrial mechanisation, there was a point in time where people were still faster, but not paying that many people was cheaper.
The interesting thing about engineering in general is that before CAD most design work was done on paper with precise drawings. That would have been painfully tedious to design things without a 3D model to spin around.
There is a certain irony to the title of this video without mentioning the main hardware architect behind the PC: Lewis Eggebrecht. He's been written out of the official IBM history, but he was the guy who made the majority of the design decisions after moving out of IBM's Minneosta group to Florida. The majority of information on him can be found from the 1984-09-18 issue of PC Magazine, with lots of corroboration about his role in the following years. It would be a great future video topic.
Until 1:23 I never understood the reasoning behind IBM using completely off-the-shelf parts for their personal computer. Now it makes all too much sense. The reason why they didn't make their own components even though that's what Commodore had been doing for years and they had been doing for decades. They weren't stupid or shortsighted. Of course not. They were just impatient. And now kids these days don't even know what "IBM Compatible" means.
It is not like they were impatient. As i understand it, they were desperate not to lose this new personal computer market. In the 1980 it was pretty packed with 8 bit machines, which was not ideal, but viable for productivity tasks. And in the same time, it was a side gig, so they don't care that much
Off the shelf parts were actually for a different reason, they were trying to compete with the apple 2 and they would need independent computer shops to recommend them. Which would only happen if the independent computer shops could repair them.
Funny, I am pretty sure there is a different reason for this than mentioned in this discussion. They did not want a "PC" to compete with their other product lines, their small business computers. The "minicomputer" divisions were very worried about the possibility, they just wanted a product that an individual or small business could start with, and graduate to buying their "serious" computers as soon as they could afford it. They realized they needed a small, "cheap" computer to compete with Commodore, Apple, Tandy and others, but they also had no intention of cannibalizing sales of the computers they already were putting out. They also arrogantly assumed people would dump DOS for the OS they would develop called OS/2. Certainly, businesspeople would get fed up with that terrible, too-quickly made horrible MS operating system!
I'm confused: why does this video begin with: "It's the middle of the '80s..." ? -Bill Lowe met with the IBM Corporate Management Committee in July 1980. -Apple Computers had their Wall Street IPO in December 1980. -The IBM PC was released in August 1981. (Perhaps LowSpecGamer meant to say, "It is the beginning of the '80s...")
This is not exactly 100% correct. Seattle Computer Products had "created" QDOS (Quick 'n' Dirty Operating System). They rebranded as 86-DOS to present a more "professional" name, as well as to attempt to deflect the fact that Kildall was at the time accusing them of stealing CP/M code. SCP insisted that QDOS/86-DOS was properly reverse engineered from only the CP/M-80 manual reference, and not by copying any code. Kildall argued that even some CP/M bugs had been copied over. He even threatened IBM, accusing them of running an unlicensed version of his CP/M on their new PC. IBM's lawyers approached him with an "offer"... In exchange for a clause baring Kildall from suing IBM, they would not ship the initial PC model with Microsoft's PC-DOS as a default... Instead, they would include a consumer choice.. The buyer could select PC-DOS, CP/M, or another option as their OS. Killdall agreed, and signed the offer. Much to his horror, IBM had never discussed _pricing,_ and made Microsoft's PC-DOS an affordable $40 option, and CP/M a staggering $240 option. Kildall could do nothing as he watched Microsoft's port of SCP's 86-DOS annihilate CP/M's marketshare. He continued to hound SCP, but nothing really came of it though. Kildall was entirely convinced SCP had stolen his code, sold it, and ruined his business, and he remained quite bitter about the series of events for the remainder of his life. As much as I like Pirates of Silicon valley, they sum up a highly complex series of business and legal interactions into a couple minute long summary, that doesn't even mention Kildall at all. This story is so much more complex than even what was presented here. Kildall's story is rather tragic. Even the nature of the plane incident is something he has strongly disputed. There's a lot of finger pointing, accusations, and in the end, resentment behind the scenes. Two years before Gary's death, his old university honored Bill Gates... Not him, for his development of the concept of the modern operating system, but Bill Gates, for _buying_ an OS... _"Well, it seems to me that he did have an education to get there. It happened to be mine, not his."..._ I can not imagine the bitterness and hurt Kildall felt watching the institution where he gained his education choose to put the man who built an empire off buying a copy of his work onto their stage. Kildall never attended. Once again, he felt Gates was stealing yet another part of his legacy to the world. His health rapidly declined over the following two years... It really goes to show just how badly this bitterness ate at him... Al's Geek Lab did a three part series on the details of this story. This video covers a lot, but still misses key details. I highly recommend it if you can dedicate the time.
@@DaoistYeashikAli IBM set the price. CP/M had agreed to IBM's licensing terms, but IBM had straight up tricked them to keep Microsoft's PC-DOS as the standard. It was 100% a dirty trick... But they got on paper Kildall's signature that he agreed to let IBM sell CP/M and have the liscense, and that he waived his right to sue. What wasn't on paper were agreed upon prices. Kildall never even considered the posibility, and it never got brought up in negotiation. He just assummed all the OS choices would have the same pricing. It was incredibly underhanded.
@@richfiles Why IBM was leaning on Microsoft's favour? Was Kildall hard to work or Gates offered them a better deal? If that was the case, why did they agreed on Microsoft selling the OS to other manufacturers
DOS and IBM wasn't the first home computer. Having lived through the computer boom and electronics. i remember building a Sinclair from scratch. It had a Motorola chip. Well before the 8080. You could run basic on it. You needed a small TV screen and Sinclair provided the converter. The issue was that if you turned it off, you lost everything and had to reprogram it all again. So Sinclair came up with a way of storing the programs on cassette tape and provided the interface. This made a huge difference to the experience. It was years before anything IBM came out with. Clones sprung up the moment IBM came up with the first DOS based computer. This was a game changer. These clones were quite cheap and had the MS DOS version on it and were totally usable. The rest is as per the story. This vid proves that Gates and Job never invented anything. They always bought someone else ideas and just repackaged it, and marketed it better. When I see people inferring that Jobs invented the computer or the iPod or the even the iPhone. I puke! The tech was always bought from the original inventor and just repackaged and marketed better. Why do you think the Windows hasn't changed that much since Win95? Because MS aren't inventors!
@nicksterj I'm pretty sure he bought it from someone. That's what it even says in this vid. Gates jobs never invented anything. They just bought other peoples inventions and remarketed them. MS still does this today. I don't think Gates was smart enough to program at that level. The whole mouse and windows idea came from MIT. Both Jobs and Gates were given a demo and after that they just copied the idea. Why do you think there has been NO new interface in both MS and Apple in all this time? Because they can't invent. The world has been begging for a new interface for over a decade, if not longer.
are you British? yes, there's a lot of other contender's for "home computer". The story of clones and even industry-wide " Micro Channel architecture (MCA) i" is centered on Compaq. Later Phoenix for coming up with BIOS. It's also very important that MS could sell/license "MS-DOS" to any company, undermining IBM. When IBM tried to set trademarked/copywritten standards in hardware (esp with PS/2) and OS/2, it was too late. Even IBM-designed "Industry Standard Architecture," was retroactively named and adopted by Compaq and a group of manufacturers called "The Gang of Eight". When your own standards are used against you, including against "technologically superior" Micro Channel architecture (MCA), that's when "clones", and even the term "PC", was hijacked from IBM and belonged to the world.
"Why do you think the Windows hasn't changed that much since Win95?" - because every single time they tried they were lynched. Partially because of poor implementation of those ideas, but mostly because people don't want them to change. WinXP with all downloadable themes making it look like 9x systems, Vista with people trying to make it look like XP, Win8 and tiles instead of Start menu, Win11 and not having Start menu in bottom left corner (and - again - there are apps that move it around, iirc)... I won't applaud MS for all of it, but I'm honestly not sure what's to improve there of people don't want anything to change.
I was watching a very interesting video, but I saw this notification and I had to drop everything! To watch a video from you. I’m gonna buckle up and grab my popcorn.
A bunch of people already pointed this out but the Gary Kildall story is based on industry rumors from the time but none of it is true. The only part of it that is true is Gary Kildall was out of town when IMB showed up unannounced demanding a bunch of stuff that only Gary could make a decision on.
The Gary kildall story has been recalled so many times it's pure fiction at this point. Watch the old episodes of computer Chronicles. He never went flying to skip the meeting. He actually flew from one meeting to another because he preferred flying planes as a hobbyist. The truth is he got backstabbed
@nrezmerski he made a deal with ibm. The story that RUclips tells isn't true. CPM was available on IBM but the licensing costs were ridiculous. Microsoft was way more Savvy and cutthroat. But the myth on RUclips is not real.
The Harold Evans book "They made America" outlines it as you have. From what I've read and seen Gary was a man that liked to produce great software and solutions and became upset regarding others success with what was, in some part a copy of his work. Not a cut throat business person but a highly successful and clever man that died far too early.
@zg-it The pricing wasn't the issue. It was the way they were to purchase the licensing. Gary wanted a payout per computer sold, and IBM wanted a lump sum option. Both parties must have known the likely knockout success of the product, and Gary knew there would be far greater gains if he set the precedent of unit-based licensing. This is exactly what Bill Gates would go on to do himself, and it clearly worked well for Microsoft even until today.
I love how the story of "Gary went flying" keeps evolving. At this point I don't believe any of the versions superficially glosses over bit of hearsay.
I totally agree. For an example of Kildall's poor business sense, he originally named "Digital Research", "Digital Intergalactic Research" without giving a thought that other businesses wouldn't take a company with that name seriously, certainly not with million-dollar deals. I take the "Gary went flying" story as symbolic more than anything. He was one of the OG "hacker"/engineers who cared about coding more than making money.
3:02 - The first year of IBM PC production was hand-soldered in the engineers' garages in Boca Raton. I had one of those boards once upon a time as I worked for another computer manufacturer in South Florida and found one at a local flea market.
Wait what happens to your old Videos ?😱 I love your documentaries but I just remembered your old videos and how they saved my gaming experience back in the day 😅
Actually Microsoft provided a ROM basic and pc DOS to IBM The tape based ROM basic required a special and was disabled in PCs with a floppy drive PC DOS had a little additional code to verify the ROM bios as genuine IBM MS DOS disabled the authentication
Hello LowSpec! Hopefully you'll still be around 10 years from now when it's time for a video like this for the Steam Deck lol. Always look forward to your content. Great job!
Pô, bons demais os teus vídeos, cara! Me lembro ainda da demora que tive para começar a ver eles depois que tu mudou totalmente o nicho deles, por estranheza por estar tão acostumado com os teus vídeos de antes hahahaha
Gary Kildall was not a "Hacker" he had a degree in Computer Science and created the first DOS for Microcomputers, years before they became known as PCs. Bill Gates was a dropout from a rich family and he copied BASIC from his teacher. Both CP/M and MS Basic were sold on a single add-on board for the Apple computer and to his credit, when IBM said they want both the Basic and DOS, he told them to talk to Kildall. Because of the one-sided NDA, Gates could not say anything and stores about Gary out flying remained. Of course his wife rejected the NDA where they could say nothing to anyone but IBM could do whatever. The killer was that when the PC launched, users could buy CP/M for six times the cost of MS DOS. Which was copied from CP/M. Initially some of the same bugs were in both systems. Seattle computers used the debugging tools to steal CP/M code, plain and simple. As for the making Gate's rich, my understanding is that IBM screwed him over as well, offering very little in royalties for MS DOS on PC. But because Gate's had a clause allowing him to sell DOS on other machines, that is where he really made his money, as an OS for the IBM clones.
Chuck Peddle and the 6502 brought us the personal computer. The KIM-1 and then the PET. Without the 6502 so many computers may never have happened. It was the low cost of the 6502 which meant anyone could have a pop at making a computer.
@@LowSpecGamer I understand sorry for that comment. I just find your videos now not as appealing to me as the old ones but you are doing fantastic job. Probably if i didn't know most of these topics i would watch them. Thank you for your response.
They didn't just pay off the original developer of QDOS, they hired him, and he worked at Microsoft for many years until the 90s, also comparisons with CP/M stop after DOS version 2 which was a major overhaul of the original implementation
Nice documentary 🤓🖒 however, I worked here in Pacific Grove California, where Digital Research's headquarters was. The section about how IBM tried to license CP/M, has a little inaccuracy. Gary kildall had business meeting with a customer in Oakland, CA. Bill Gates refered IBM to Digital Research. IBM came to Pacific Grove, unannounced. Gary was in Oakland, and Dorthy had to handle the situation along with their attorney. IBM wanted to have NDA signed that day, along with an OS that would be completely IBM's. No agreement was able to be done without Gary. And then other meetings later occurred. However, the OS that Microsoft acquired, was an abridged clone of CP/M. There were other legal issues with that later. In the end, the IBM pc, had two OS's available for sale. The MS-DOS for about $40, and CP/M for $240. That pricing killed CP/M. ...sigh...🤔
Btw why I didn't get the notification. I am big fan of your video. And today I just randomly checked and found out that you've already uploaded a month ago
hint. They were called personal computers long before IBM started making them. Commodore, Atari, Tandy, Apple, Texas Instruments, Sinclair, Amstrad, BBC, etc.
RIP Gary Kildall. More of a nerd than a businessman he did screw up with IBM, an opportunity missed. CPM was a good product and in a few cases surpassed MS-DOS in capability. Also a host on The Computer Chronicles, one of my favorite shows growing up. We will never know what more he had to offer. The world would look a lot different if he was still here. Gary was killed in a bar.
Seattle Computer also received a no-fee license to use MS-DOS in perpetuity. This included the right to sell it to whomever they wanted. In the end, after a court case, Seattle received about $1M for the return of this license. The CEO of Seattle closed the company and then invested the proceedings in Microsoft stock.
*knock knock* *Kicks door* "LowSpecGamer, we need you to make more videos in just a few days." LowSpecGamer: *shivers in fear.* Seriously, I like your videos; from the narrative, to the wit and humor. Keep it up sir!
@@LowSpecGamer well, no rush. Just take your time. I do like all the door kickings you placed on your videos. Will there be a door kicking on the next video?
What's not coming off about the incompetence of IBM, is that they were absolutely a paper tiger, they didn't even have the ability to put together a small team to write even a simple pile-of-crap text only OS like DOS, they weren't ever a titan in the commodity electronics market, they were outclassed by everyone.
so i was looking for a low spec Enshrouded guide and found out you killed this channel! :) great job and keep up the amazing work on being another cog in the youtube machine
I honestly am curious how the extra videos being exclusive to Nebula in the US affects how you do the same outside of it (as in your Spanish Channel, the other video mentioned during this section is not shown there as well, which I must asume the plans or when they release in that language differs as well)
@@LowSpecGamer Though, is there a reason the spanish dubbed versions aren't on Nebula as well? Or it is geoblocked outside the USA? could explain why you decide to promote the extra videos on Patreon on the Spanish channel
Nebula is only an English speaking service. There is no localization yet for anything else. So it would make no sense to put the Spanish versions there at the moment
I thought that Gary Kildall had planned a flight for his wife's birthday and that's why he blew the meeting with IBM. I'm not sure that your story that he had a fight with her and flew to blow off steam is accurate.
I mean, who wants to admit they sunk the biggest deal their company could have made because they didn't feel like showing up that day, regardless of the reason?
![ARGENTINA vs. BOLIVIA [6-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C3wPtKNbAOA/mqdefault.jpg)
Parts of this overlap with one of my favorite made-for-TV movies, Pirates of Silicon Valley, which follows Gates and Jobs in their rivalries up to the mid-90s. I especially like the framing devices of each of their respective Steves (Ballmer and Woz) semi-narrating what's happening as a sort of greek chorus.
Specifically the negotiation scene with Gates and IBM is remarked upon by actor Ballmer as so full of chutzpah that it should be framed as a painting and taught in history books.
I don't think Gary Kildall of CP/M fame is mentioned at all in it though. And this is the first I've heard of him being difficult to work with, he seemed such an affable easygoing fellow on his appearances in The Computer Chronicles. I knew there was something that went on that cost CP/M the IBM deal but I never read too deep into specifics. Just that it had something to do with his wife and/or a plane.
As you can imagine pirates of Silicon Valley is one of my favorite movies and there where at least two rewatches involved while scripting parts of this video.
I was also surprised that the CPM story was not included in it. There are several versions floating around about what exactly happened (at least from 3 different interviews) but I went with the one from the source book for consistency
In all I've read it just seems Kildall was a phenomenal programmer but not a good businessman. Not a knock on him as that seemed to be the norm in silicon valley and it seemed he lived like some sort of rock star cowboy. I loved Kildall in the Computer Chronicles.
Love that movie. I was first introduced to it in a high school computer class. I pirated it down the road to watch it again. Still holds up.
Yeah, this is the story as presented by Bill Gates and IBM. IBM being a much, much, much, bigger player means their narrative gets told and heard. And since Kildall is dead and can't defend himself, this is the only story we'll ever hear.
The show Halt and Catch Fire also explores the story of the clean room reverse-engineering of the PC BIOS. Worth a watch.
Oh , the irony. To prevent IBM from becoming a monopoly they turned Microsoft into one 😂
We will explore that further in part 3, but in attempts to avoid a IBM monopoly two more where created: Intel and Microsoft. It is a fascinating set of circumstances
@@LowSpecGamerwintel a winter for user choice
Also it might be cool of ya made a video about gnu, hurd, and the making linux
@@LowSpecGamerIntel's really not a monopoly (although they've definitely gotten close at times). AMD has regularly had significant periods of absolutely kicking their ass, and we are currently living in one right now. 🤷 AMD's fastest server CPU's are literally around TWO TO THREE TIMES as fast as Intel's and like ≈4-5x more power efficient. They aren't even remotely close tbh. And as such Intel's been bleeding marketshare for basically like 6+ years straight now.
@@Voidkitty_this I would love to see tbh. Windows history reaching back into dos is interesting for sure but I just can't approach windows or Mac these days because of invasive telemtry that doesn't turn off properly even if you opt out. Linux history tho even dating back to Unix and minix would be great to see 😅
@@LowSpecGamer but we have cyrix, and some processore maker i dont remeber.
Can I say that I really appreciate the extra artwork made for these videos, it really adds to things and makes me actually want to watch instead of just listen (dealing with eye strain, getting old sucks, I advise against it).
Edit: I just noticed you credit the artist in the description! That makes it easier to say specifically thank you, Maiku no Koe!
Inventing computers without a computer has gotta be almost as difficult as making StackOverflow without StackOverflow...
To make Stack Overflow you need slightly older Stack Overflow.
I know this is a joke but the history of physical & manual pre-digital pre-electronic computers is absolutely fascinating.
Just like industrial mechanisation, there was a point in time where people were still faster, but not paying that many people was cheaper.
The interesting thing about engineering in general is that before CAD most design work was done on paper with precise drawings. That would have been painfully tedious to design things without a 3D model to spin around.
@@jimtekkit Spinning?? in 1st gen CAD?
"Computer" used to be a profession before machines took over
It really feels like you are making a anime about the history of computers.
Well isn't this a surprise!! Just yesterday I remember you because I wanted to see how to improve my "low spec rig"!! Good to have you back
Same but more for nostalgia reasons! I upgraded to a 7800x3d paired with a 7800XT
There's still the old trove of videos under a playlist, but yeah no updates.
There is a certain irony to the title of this video without mentioning the main hardware architect behind the PC: Lewis Eggebrecht. He's been written out of the official IBM history, but he was the guy who made the majority of the design decisions after moving out of IBM's Minneosta group to Florida.
The majority of information on him can be found from the 1984-09-18 issue of PC Magazine, with lots of corroboration about his role in the following years. It would be a great future video topic.
There's massive irony. SO MUCH RUclips content is such bad clickbait, lacking decent research.
Until 1:23 I never understood the reasoning behind IBM using completely off-the-shelf parts for their personal computer. Now it makes all too much sense. The reason why they didn't make their own components even though that's what Commodore had been doing for years and they had been doing for decades. They weren't stupid or shortsighted. Of course not. They were just impatient. And now kids these days don't even know what "IBM Compatible" means.
It is not like they were impatient. As i understand it, they were desperate not to lose this new personal computer market. In the 1980 it was pretty packed with 8 bit machines, which was not ideal, but viable for productivity tasks. And in the same time, it was a side gig, so they don't care that much
Off the shelf parts were actually for a different reason, they were trying to compete with the apple 2 and they would need independent computer shops to recommend them. Which would only happen if the independent computer shops could repair them.
Funny, I am pretty sure there is a different reason for this than mentioned in this discussion. They did not want a "PC" to compete with their other product lines, their small business computers. The "minicomputer" divisions were very worried about the possibility, they just wanted a product that an individual or small business could start with, and graduate to buying their "serious" computers as soon as they could afford it. They realized they needed a small, "cheap" computer to compete with Commodore, Apple, Tandy and others, but they also had no intention of cannibalizing sales of the computers they already were putting out. They also arrogantly assumed people would dump DOS for the OS they would develop called OS/2. Certainly, businesspeople would get fed up with that terrible, too-quickly made horrible MS operating system!
Qué alegría un nuevo video de LowSpecGamer. Llevaba unos días echando de menos uno y de repente... Sorpresa!
I'm happy your comment reminded me @LowSpecGamerESP exists.
Thanks 😊
porque el no hizo mas videos con nate gentile?@@manuelfernandez5054
I'm confused: why does this video begin with: "It's the middle of the '80s..." ?
-Bill Lowe met with the IBM Corporate Management Committee in July 1980.
-Apple Computers had their Wall Street IPO in December 1980.
-The IBM PC was released in August 1981.
(Perhaps LowSpecGamer meant to say, "It is the beginning of the '80s...")
Yep. I used the wrong intro. F.
Another example of a poor video re review of accuracy, fact checking, etc.
Omg anal retentive much?
Ought to make a doc about the origins, development, and evolutions of Android. Its a story of a similar flavor of intrigue.
I was looking for this channel, but couldn't find it if my life depended on it.
I glad it still exists and to see it show up in my subscription list
7:43 Correction: It was named 86-QDOS. x86 Quick and Dirty Operating System
Yeah I think I missed this
This is not exactly 100% correct. Seattle Computer Products had "created" QDOS (Quick 'n' Dirty Operating System). They rebranded as 86-DOS to present a more "professional" name, as well as to attempt to deflect the fact that Kildall was at the time accusing them of stealing CP/M code. SCP insisted that QDOS/86-DOS was properly reverse engineered from only the CP/M-80 manual reference, and not by copying any code. Kildall argued that even some CP/M bugs had been copied over. He even threatened IBM, accusing them of running an unlicensed version of his CP/M on their new PC. IBM's lawyers approached him with an "offer"... In exchange for a clause baring Kildall from suing IBM, they would not ship the initial PC model with Microsoft's PC-DOS as a default... Instead, they would include a consumer choice.. The buyer could select PC-DOS, CP/M, or another option as their OS. Killdall agreed, and signed the offer. Much to his horror, IBM had never discussed _pricing,_ and made Microsoft's PC-DOS an affordable $40 option, and CP/M a staggering $240 option. Kildall could do nothing as he watched Microsoft's port of SCP's 86-DOS annihilate CP/M's marketshare. He continued to hound SCP, but nothing really came of it though. Kildall was entirely convinced SCP had stolen his code, sold it, and ruined his business, and he remained quite bitter about the series of events for the remainder of his life.
As much as I like Pirates of Silicon valley, they sum up a highly complex series of business and legal interactions into a couple minute long summary, that doesn't even mention Kildall at all. This story is so much more complex than even what was presented here. Kildall's story is rather tragic. Even the nature of the plane incident is something he has strongly disputed. There's a lot of finger pointing, accusations, and in the end, resentment behind the scenes.
Two years before Gary's death, his old university honored Bill Gates... Not him, for his development of the concept of the modern operating system, but Bill Gates, for _buying_ an OS... _"Well, it seems to me that he did have an education to get there. It happened to be mine, not his."..._ I can not imagine the bitterness and hurt Kildall felt watching the institution where he gained his education choose to put the man who built an empire off buying a copy of his work onto their stage. Kildall never attended. Once again, he felt Gates was stealing yet another part of his legacy to the world. His health rapidly declined over the following two years... It really goes to show just how badly this bitterness ate at him...
Al's Geek Lab did a three part series on the details of this story. This video covers a lot, but still misses key details. I highly recommend it if you can dedicate the time.
@@richfiles Btw why was CP/M so expensive. Why didn't they sell it at a cheaper price like microsoft did?
@@DaoistYeashikAli IBM set the price. CP/M had agreed to IBM's licensing terms, but IBM had straight up tricked them to keep Microsoft's PC-DOS as the standard. It was 100% a dirty trick... But they got on paper Kildall's signature that he agreed to let IBM sell CP/M and have the liscense, and that he waived his right to sue. What wasn't on paper were agreed upon prices. Kildall never even considered the posibility, and it never got brought up in negotiation. He just assummed all the OS choices would have the same pricing. It was incredibly underhanded.
@@richfiles Why IBM was leaning on Microsoft's favour? Was Kildall hard to work or Gates offered them a better deal? If that was the case, why did they agreed on Microsoft selling the OS to other manufacturers
DOS and IBM wasn't the first home computer. Having lived through the computer boom and electronics. i remember building a Sinclair from scratch. It had a Motorola chip. Well before the 8080. You could run basic on it. You needed a small TV screen and Sinclair provided the converter. The issue was that if you turned it off, you lost everything and had to reprogram it all again. So Sinclair came up with a way of storing the programs on cassette tape and provided the interface. This made a huge difference to the experience. It was years before anything IBM came out with. Clones sprung up the moment IBM came up with the first DOS based computer. This was a game changer. These clones were quite cheap and had the MS DOS version on it and were totally usable. The rest is as per the story. This vid proves that Gates and Job never invented anything. They always bought someone else ideas and just repackaged it, and marketed it better. When I see people inferring that Jobs invented the computer or the iPod or the even the iPhone. I puke! The tech was always bought from the original inventor and just repackaged and marketed better. Why do you think the Windows hasn't changed that much since Win95? Because MS aren't inventors!
@nicksterj I'm pretty sure he bought it from someone. That's what it even says in this vid. Gates jobs never invented anything. They just bought other peoples inventions and remarketed them. MS still does this today. I don't think Gates was smart enough to program at that level. The whole mouse and windows idea came from MIT. Both Jobs and Gates were given a demo and after that they just copied the idea. Why do you think there has been NO new interface in both MS and Apple in all this time? Because they can't invent. The world has been begging for a new interface for over a decade, if not longer.
Well..... First personal computer is the Kenbak-1 released in 1971.
are you British? yes, there's a lot of other contender's for "home computer". The story of clones and even industry-wide " Micro Channel architecture (MCA) i" is centered on Compaq. Later Phoenix for coming up with BIOS. It's also very important that MS could sell/license "MS-DOS" to any company, undermining IBM. When IBM tried to set trademarked/copywritten standards in hardware (esp with PS/2) and OS/2, it was too late. Even IBM-designed "Industry Standard Architecture," was retroactively named and adopted by Compaq and a group of manufacturers called "The Gang of Eight". When your own standards are used against you, including against "technologically superior" Micro Channel architecture (MCA), that's when "clones", and even the term "PC", was hijacked from IBM and belonged to the world.
Not the first home computer, but the first iteration of what our modern PCs are. The modern PC is descended from the IBM Compatibles
"Why do you think the Windows hasn't changed that much since Win95?" - because every single time they tried they were lynched. Partially because of poor implementation of those ideas, but mostly because people don't want them to change.
WinXP with all downloadable themes making it look like 9x systems, Vista with people trying to make it look like XP, Win8 and tiles instead of Start menu, Win11 and not having Start menu in bottom left corner (and - again - there are apps that move it around, iirc)... I won't applaud MS for all of it, but I'm honestly not sure what's to improve there of people don't want anything to change.
Love the new format of the channel, love seeing the history of technology:)
me too just hate he deleted everything
@@cody1312 it just unlisted, you can still watch them
I could be mistaken, but are you the same guy who used to do guides on how to play modern games on below minimum hardware?
I was watching a very interesting video, but I saw this notification and I had to drop everything! To watch a video from you. I’m gonna buckle up and grab my popcorn.
Whoo so glad to see you upload again 🎉
A bunch of people already pointed this out but the Gary Kildall story is based on industry rumors from the time but none of it is true. The only part of it that is true is Gary Kildall was out of town when IMB showed up unannounced demanding a bunch of stuff that only Gary could make a decision on.
7:27 I got a momentary flashback to Bill and Ted’s excellent adventure with that line
Im glad you're back, i missed these videos.
we missed u ,dude !!
The Gary kildall story has been recalled so many times it's pure fiction at this point. Watch the old episodes of computer Chronicles. He never went flying to skip the meeting. He actually flew from one meeting to another because he preferred flying planes as a hobbyist. The truth is he got backstabbed
@nrezmerski he made a deal with ibm. The story that RUclips tells isn't true. CPM was available on IBM but the licensing costs were ridiculous. Microsoft was way more Savvy and cutthroat. But the myth on RUclips is not real.
The Harold Evans book "They made America" outlines it as you have. From what I've read and seen Gary was a man that liked to produce great software and solutions and became upset regarding others success with what was, in some part a copy of his work. Not a cut throat business person but a highly successful and clever man that died far too early.
@nrezmerski and lost
@zg-it The pricing wasn't the issue. It was the way they were to purchase the licensing. Gary wanted a payout per computer sold, and IBM wanted a lump sum option. Both parties must have known the likely knockout success of the product, and Gary knew there would be far greater gains if he set the precedent of unit-based licensing. This is exactly what Bill Gates would go on to do himself, and it clearly worked well for Microsoft even until today.
I love how the story of "Gary went flying" keeps evolving. At this point I don't believe any of the versions superficially glosses over bit of hearsay.
I totally agree. For an example of Kildall's poor business sense, he originally named "Digital Research", "Digital Intergalactic Research" without giving a thought that other businesses wouldn't take a company with that name seriously, certainly not with million-dollar deals. I take the "Gary went flying" story as symbolic more than anything. He was one of the OG "hacker"/engineers who cared about coding more than making money.
3:02 - The first year of IBM PC production was hand-soldered in the engineers' garages in Boca Raton. I had one of those boards once upon a time as I worked for another computer manufacturer in South Florida and found one at a local flea market.
4:54 nice apollo justice reference there
IBM used to make BARs and M1 Carbines back in the day.
Your shitting me. Huh, that’s kind of crazy.
Gotta love these animefied tech history documentaries
Nice video! An idea for the future could be talk about Olivetti, an italian typing machines and computer company that almost "beat" IBM.
Where are the older videos?
There's a playlist called Old School LowSpecGamer in his channel that you can look up.
I heard it includes desoldering a socketed chip, and reading it out with LEDs instead of just literally dumping it on disk ;)
I'm pretty sure that was only done for the episode of 'Halt and Catch Fire'.
That pronunciation of Lowe, though!
Wait what happens to your old Videos ?😱
I love your documentaries but I just remembered your old videos and how they saved my gaming experience back in the day 😅
Please keep the series going! my notification didn't go off for this video.
Actually Microsoft provided a ROM basic and pc DOS to IBM
The tape based ROM basic required a special and was disabled in PCs with a floppy drive
PC DOS had a little additional code to verify the ROM bios as genuine IBM
MS DOS disabled the authentication
It actually wasn't really disabled in PCs with a floppy drive, just extremely useless (see PS/2 line)
@@MaximNightFury
I member an odd thing called a personal typing system that had a PS2 style case and the ROM basic and no cassette port
So glad to see more content from you
9:11 "Computers for fun" was peak marketing
I love 80's IT stories! Awesome Ace Attorney references in drawings!
Hey! I just returned to watching you yesterday where the last video was 4 months ago. And to my surprise. A video 6h ago? Poggers!
Hello LowSpec! Hopefully you'll still be around 10 years from now when it's time for a video like this for the Steam Deck lol. Always look forward to your content. Great job!
Pô, bons demais os teus vídeos, cara! Me lembro ainda da demora que tive para começar a ver eles depois que tu mudou totalmente o nicho deles, por estranheza por estar tão acostumado com os teus vídeos de antes hahahaha
Alright man you finally wore me down I’ll get a nebula subscription 🎉
Where did your old videos go?
they're on a playlist now
Low Spec Gamer's back lessss gooooo
I invented the PC in my basement in 1974.
Source: Trust Me
Thanks for naming those legends. Good thing is that most of those people are still alive.
... i miss your old videos, are they on your patreon? I'd subscribe to watch them. They were beautiful.
I got so many zilog z80's in my 80's arcades. Great processor, no heatsink required and they work 40 years later.
Its nice to see you upload again 😀
Came for the story, stuck around for the art and mis-pronounced words!
Gary Kildall was not a "Hacker" he had a degree in Computer Science and created the first DOS for Microcomputers, years before they became known as PCs. Bill Gates was a dropout from a rich family and he copied BASIC from his teacher. Both CP/M and MS Basic were sold on a single add-on board for the Apple computer and to his credit, when IBM said they want both the Basic and DOS, he told them to talk to Kildall. Because of the one-sided NDA, Gates could not say anything and stores about Gary out flying remained. Of course his wife rejected the NDA where they could say nothing to anyone but IBM could do whatever. The killer was that when the PC launched, users could buy CP/M for six times the cost of MS DOS. Which was copied from CP/M. Initially some of the same bugs were in both systems. Seattle computers used the debugging tools to steal CP/M code, plain and simple.
As for the making Gate's rich, my understanding is that IBM screwed him over as well, offering very little in royalties for MS DOS on PC. But because Gate's had a clause allowing him to sell DOS on other machines, that is where he really made his money, as an OS for the IBM clones.
Chuck Peddle and the 6502 brought us the personal computer. The KIM-1 and then the PET. Without the 6502 so many computers may never have happened. It was the low cost of the 6502 which meant anyone could have a pop at making a computer.
Lifetime membership! I love lifetime membership deals! I'd better go grab one while they're available!
lowspecgamer where are your old videos?
Here's a playlist of lowspecs old videos:
ruclips.net/p/PLp-6MMWURCz3FMshMrq60zuAXbpP7zk6n&si=nzB_ZVI1K7cpy3Bg
I'd be interested to know how the Altair went from just a row of blinking red lights to working with a monitor and keyboard. Who did that come about?
Cool, new video to watch over and over for no reason.
I miss low spec gamer
I honestly don’t
@@LowSpecGamer I understand sorry for that comment. I just find your videos now not as appealing to me as the old ones but you are doing fantastic job. Probably if i didn't know most of these topics i would watch them. Thank you for your response.
They didn't just pay off the original developer of QDOS, they hired him, and he worked at Microsoft for many years until the 90s, also comparisons with CP/M stop after DOS version 2 which was a major overhaul of the original implementation
PC, do you even understand that PC is short for Personal Computer⁉️
Yes
Nice documentary 🤓🖒 however, I worked here in Pacific Grove California, where Digital Research's headquarters was. The section about how IBM tried to license CP/M, has a little inaccuracy. Gary kildall had business meeting with a customer in Oakland, CA. Bill Gates refered IBM to Digital Research. IBM came to Pacific Grove, unannounced. Gary was in Oakland, and Dorthy had to handle the situation along with their attorney. IBM wanted to have NDA signed that day, along with an OS that would be completely IBM's. No agreement was able to be done without Gary. And then other meetings later occurred. However, the OS that Microsoft acquired, was an abridged clone of CP/M. There were other legal issues with that later. In the end, the IBM pc, had two OS's available for sale. The MS-DOS for about $40, and CP/M for $240. That pricing killed CP/M. ...sigh...🤔
7:37 - WRONG. Called Xerox, and the OS was stolen using his roommate's identity to steal the source code
can i loan your video materials to spread the info?
Btw why I didn't get the notification. I am big fan of your video. And today I just randomly checked and found out that you've already uploaded a month ago
That title card is really something.
is it just me or is this video just a one big ad for nebula... cool way to cover a story though. lol
I thought I recognized Joe Scott's voice. Love seeing my favorite youtubers collaborate!
props for giving us the most deranged thumbnail yet
hint. They were called personal computers long before IBM started making them. Commodore, Atari, Tandy, Apple, Texas Instruments, Sinclair, Amstrad, BBC, etc.
Unbelievable that RUclips doesn't push me your Videos
Ring the bell!
everyone seems to forget the true OG PC, the Datapoint 2200 from 1970
RIP Gary Kildall. More of a nerd than a businessman he did screw up with IBM, an opportunity missed. CPM was a good product and in a few cases surpassed MS-DOS in capability. Also a host on The Computer Chronicles, one of my favorite shows growing up. We will never know what more he had to offer. The world would look a lot different if he was still here. Gary was killed in a bar.
5:32 The lawyer looks like a character from Ace Attorney.
Apollo justice!
Almost looks like him
@@mattBLACKpunk
Let me guess. The Company you mean is Compaq?
Your less americanized and less than perfect english is being more and more iconic and unique by the day!
Only 16k views people dont know what they are missing on.
The format you present the videos is so interesting and Top quality.
LEWSPECGAMER'S RETURN
Damn.. You are back
whats the answer, year, and name of personal computer?
I think John Von Neuman invented the pc
Every pc follows his architecture
1:40 - When you're working on PCs to invent the PC.
Isn't the clue in the name?
The IBM Personal Computer.
Honey wake up! New LowSpec video
awww yes, more lowspec gamer
When is PC-2 coming out?
That is part 3 of this series
Seattle Computer also received a no-fee license to use MS-DOS in perpetuity. This included the right to sell it to whomever they wanted. In the end, after a court case, Seattle received about $1M for the return of this license. The CEO of Seattle closed the company and then invested the proceedings in Microsoft stock.
I can not get Nebula. When will you get Paypal or something like it as a payment option?
That might worth if you buy a subscription using in app purchase
Everyone who has seen that scene in Pirates of Silicon Valley knows how important this moment was
Pirates of Silicon Valley is huge inspiration to me so I was dying to get to this video
It's a me, Mario!
*knock knock*
*Kicks door*
"LowSpecGamer, we need you to make more videos in just a few days."
LowSpecGamer: *shivers in fear.*
Seriously, I like your videos; from the narrative, to the wit and humor. Keep it up sir!
The next one was supposed to be done a week ago but we hit a delay on getting the Voice Actors. We are almost there
@@LowSpecGamer well, no rush. Just take your time. I do like all the door kickings you placed on your videos. Will there be a door kicking on the next video?
Who really invented the PC?
Go back into the late 1970s, a chap named Chuck Peddle and the Victor 9000 / Sirius 1 computer. Years ahead of IBM.
Oh, good old ami bios story.
What's not coming off about the incompetence of IBM, is that they were absolutely a paper tiger, they didn't even have the ability to put together a small team to write even a simple pile-of-crap text only OS like DOS, they weren't ever a titan in the commodity electronics market, they were outclassed by everyone.
I KNEW I HEARD THE EXTRAS GUY!
I never new billy boi was such a big scammer just wow 😳
so i was looking for a low spec Enshrouded guide and found out you killed this channel! :) great job and keep up the amazing work on being another cog in the youtube machine
@BobbyKotick69420 So much better to the point they killed his channel
Kenbak invented the PC. With the Kenbak-1 in 1971.
Are you the same in the spanish channel, or is just voice actor?
Es venezolano asi que si, es el, aunque me suena rarisimo oirlo en otro idioma que no sea el ingles
I laughed out loud at the Death Note reference 🤣
I honestly am curious how the extra videos being exclusive to Nebula in the US affects how you do the same outside of it
(as in your Spanish Channel, the other video mentioned during this section is not shown there as well, which I must asume the plans or when they release in that language differs as well)
The Spanish channel gets the same extra videos in Patreon
@@LowSpecGamer Though, is there a reason the spanish dubbed versions aren't on Nebula as well?
Or it is geoblocked outside the USA?
could explain why you decide to promote the extra videos on Patreon on the Spanish channel
Nebula is only an English speaking service. There is no localization yet for anything else. So it would make no sense to put the Spanish versions there at the moment
I thought that Gary Kildall had planned a flight for his wife's birthday and that's why he blew the meeting with IBM. I'm not sure that your story that he had a fight with her and flew to blow off steam is accurate.
Both versions have been disputed by Kildall and others at DRI. But a good story has long legs...
I mean, who wants to admit they sunk the biggest deal their company could have made because they didn't feel like showing up that day, regardless of the reason?
It was IBM, could take ages for a deal.