For people in metal ranks, if you want to know what you are doing wrong, literally just vod review your own matches but spectate from the pov of the enemy dps and tank. This will highlight how easy your positions are to punish, it will show how strange your decisions are, and it will show you how disjointed your plays are from the rest of your team. And this works on all roles, it's like magic. Don't even need coaching to see it, you just need basic eye sight.
@@-aku2805 It works up to GM ;) The goal is to make your own approach to the game as simple and fundamental as possible, but the higher in rank you get, the harder this task becomes due to the increasing complexity in outside factors. As long as you just focus on every situation you die/are close to death, and then also look at every situation you didn't die and try to think if you would have died if rng wasn't on your side. Rng elimination is key. Also another tip, if you want to have more offensive impact, you can do the same approach but instead look from the enemy support's perspective. See how often their attention is challenged, their positions are put at risk, their allies are near death, etc. If you rewatch your vods from their perspective and find that the enemy supports aren't having a too hard time, that's an issue that you have the power to change. If supports go a long time without having to spend their resources on themselves and split their attention between their team, and actively fighting for their own space and awareness, then there is room for more punishment on them, etc.
“If you were playing Widowmaker, would you be standing in that position” What a great point to make it to somebody who is a DPS main trying to learn support! Incredibly insightful I bet you that really helped them❤❤
First three minutes, I already know a couple things. 1. Ping enemies. 2. Switch to Brig when you die to a Genji that quickly and easily. 3. Position yourself in a location that allows you to retreat to your team.
As Zenyatta player i understand this feeling to play more agressive as we only have our healing orb that heal over time and only 1 person at a time. When I look at his Orisa who is often out of line of sight, I understand why he want to be closer. I feel like that in this game his dps are way to behind to help their tank pressure the enemy Reinhardt. What really pissed me off is that none support players seems to not understand that Zen is not a heal bot like they want to (and this is why they always ask for a mercy pocket at this low elo) but Zen is way stronger than many support especially at low elo when you can discord bad positioning from enemy team. But it's true that his positioning as Zen could be better and as Emongg say play more longe range and less at melee range.
i love the teaching in this video. (trying to learn better positioning and decision making) Where to position is key in comp. and taking advantage of certain situations. Playing further back as Zen and not playing frontline.
Zen always gets flamed for either low heals or not having a perfect ult. You’ll have your tank and dps constantly mess up or get no value ults but heaven forbid if Zen doesn’t save the whole team 3 times per minute with his ult, he’ll get flamed for not using his ult “correctly”
The main problem is that the low base heals of Zen need to be offset by his potential to apply pressure, and applying pressure means your team takes less damage thus you need less heals. So if you on Zen fail to apply enough pressure to offset your limited healing potential, then yes you technically are "not healing enough". This is not to say your allies aren't dumb fucks who stand in the open and eat damage like it's a free buffet, of course they will do this and complain about healing.. of course. But the point is, when you pick Zen you are making an active decision that says "I don't need healing if the enemies are dead or pressured out of every good position to do damage from". And you need to live and die for this mindset.
@@Real_MisterSir same with Lucio. Zen and Lucio need to find their Value outside of healing. And if you have both Zen AND Lucio at once, they need to find a whole lot of that value. And arguably Brig counts for this as well.
@@dyamonde9555 Yea, and in reality this mindset actually goes for all supports, it's just that with some of them there is more leeway in which way you swing depending on the context. Some supports are more forgiving by offering high heal potential and save mechanics (like Ana, Bap, Kiri), and others like Zen and Lucio are more dependent on carrying out their prime value tool with no other real option to fall back on. It's why they also demand more discipline to play.
@15:55 Nah, this could’ve easily been waited out if this wasn’t a gold lobby. He popped his ult offensively and all the other team had to do was back up and not commit ultimates. The only reason this ended up working is because all the gold players on both teams saw an ult and their q key neurons activated. Very braindead Zen ult here.
3 rules of thumb for Zen positioning: 1. Always try to off angle to apply consistent pressure (to bypass shields and enemy team's natural cover, as well as spread their attention between two directions of attack) 2. Be sure your off angle has a short and easy way to get back to your team with minimal downtime 3. Be sure your off angle has a short and easy way to push up and maintain pressure if the enemy frontline starts collapsing/falling back If you can handle these 3 steps in every single situation, you will climb and your positioning will never be an issue. Positioning tends to be bad for Zen when you just sit in your team's backline somewhere behind your tank, because it means if your tank fails to do anything, then you are second in line for the enemy aggression. It means every shot that misses your tank or passes through your tank, also has a chance to hit you just by the fact that you play behind them. So first step is to not play behind your tank. If you for some reason can't find a safe off angle to apply pressure from, then off angle your own tank. This ensures enemy fire strikes will not hit you. It ensures enemies shooting at your tank will not also have you as a potential secondary target. It ensures abilities and ults like Earth shatter don't also hit you if your tank fails to block them, etc. Just never play straight behind your tank unless you have no other options, and if you have no other options you must at minimum put a great distance between you and your tank.
so in case the submitter sees this I have some additional tips/comments: Firstly - are you sure you want to be playing support? Yes it is support not healer and you don't want to be healbotting but you're out here putting your heal orb on the tank and then just dpsing and tunnel visoning on that. There were a bunch of times your support/dps could have used the orb and you ignored them to dps instead. Yes zen is about fragging out but playing support is about awareness. You should be playing behind your dps to keep an eye on them and to juggle orb when needed not just tuning them out unless they're crit. Also your discord uptime is poor, not only with coming back from spawn all the time but you should use it before shooting not after. Granted there are situations where it's best to shoot first (volley peeks for eg) but this was a habit for you where you'd shoot a bunch of left clicks and *then* discord which is wasting your value. You are peeking too early for volleys. You need to stay behind cover for longer before releasing cause there were a bunch of times you were just sat out in the open for the last part of the charge and you could have been burst down yourself. You can cancel volley with melee! Means you have to reload less if you peek and the enemy has gone cause you don't waste ammo.
I will say, against divers like Genji, you wanna stay in a spot where you can go back to your team if need be. So not the other side of the map either.
Roll q is a nightmare I'd rather play open q so at least there is more of a chance to carry or squeeze out a win and switch rolls if other players decide they want to be a one trick who don't care moving up in rank
@@eachfilly825One tricks usually rank up faster because they master one hero and are better with that than other people who switch when they're countered etc.
That was gold? In my games (gold-dia) they take Widow/Ashe on that map and he would be dead in an instant, period. I would love if the enemy supports played like that.
well the tank over extends and it becomes a 1v4 for them, then I as kiriko tp to save them, saved them and then they leaves me alone in that 1v4 situation.
you're choosing to take a 2v4 fight. that's not a fight you should take. yeah, your tank shouldn't do that, but there's no reason for you to go feed with them. as supports, we can't control what our teammates do, but we do get to control what we do.
That person would be perma dead if the enemy has a Widow/Hanzo who can hit their shots. The positioning is awful, especially for Zenyatta who relies so much on exactly that
The amount of time he just skipped over putting heal orb on anyone because he gotta shoot those charged volley really ticked me off. Just cancel it with melee or release it, put heal orb on someone and charge again. The entire thing would've take him 1 second.
*if you main support I can’t count how many times my tanks go too far from their supports then blame us for not healing enough when they’re the sole target of the enemy team lol
@@_bizmo_fungus_894or you could mute and block them like a mature adult and then keep playing the game. just a thought. no need to throw by abandoning a teammate.
Playing off angles is what makes kiriko great for me personally and zen absolutely awful. I really like to play off angles and a hero like kiriko allows me to be in multiple places at once that way. That said, thanks to watching emongg on dva and flats on rein I am a higher rank in tank.
I saw the video and was like i hope someone didnt submit thos about me bc the other day I accidentally queued for ranked on all, got healer which i dont play and played mystery heroes bc tanks wasn’t protecting well
For people in metal ranks, if you want to know what you are doing wrong, literally just vod review your own matches but spectate from the pov of the enemy dps and tank. This will highlight how easy your positions are to punish, it will show how strange your decisions are, and it will show you how disjointed your plays are from the rest of your team. And this works on all roles, it's like magic. Don't even need coaching to see it, you just need basic eye sight.
Ima try this out today thanks
Wow this actually seems like a good idea, I might try this even though I'm low diamond
@@-aku2805 It works up to GM ;) The goal is to make your own approach to the game as simple and fundamental as possible, but the higher in rank you get, the harder this task becomes due to the increasing complexity in outside factors. As long as you just focus on every situation you die/are close to death, and then also look at every situation you didn't die and try to think if you would have died if rng wasn't on your side. Rng elimination is key.
Also another tip, if you want to have more offensive impact, you can do the same approach but instead look from the enemy support's perspective. See how often their attention is challenged, their positions are put at risk, their allies are near death, etc. If you rewatch your vods from their perspective and find that the enemy supports aren't having a too hard time, that's an issue that you have the power to change.
If supports go a long time without having to spend their resources on themselves and split their attention between their team, and actively fighting for their own space and awareness, then there is room for more punishment on them, etc.
Gonna try this out. Thanks for the idea :)
As a person whose eyes are so shit I need extra thick glasses, I'm offended 😉
“If you were playing Widowmaker, would you be standing in that position”
What a great point to make it to somebody who is a DPS main trying to learn support! Incredibly insightful I bet you that really helped them❤❤
I loved how both supports on each team panic enter the room basically holding hands at 16:35
First three minutes, I already know a couple things.
1. Ping enemies.
2. Switch to Brig when you die to a Genji that quickly and easily.
3. Position yourself in a location that allows you to retreat to your team.
Eh not necessarily need the switch to Brig just need to learn Zen kick
As Zenyatta player i understand this feeling to play more agressive as we only have our healing orb that heal over time and only 1 person at a time. When I look at his Orisa who is often out of line of sight, I understand why he want to be closer. I feel like that in this game his dps are way to behind to help their tank pressure the enemy Reinhardt. What really pissed me off is that none support players seems to not understand that Zen is not a heal bot like they want to (and this is why they always ask for a mercy pocket at this low elo) but Zen is way stronger than many support especially at low elo when you can discord bad positioning from enemy team. But it's true that his positioning as Zen could be better and as Emongg say play more longe range and less at melee range.
i love the teaching in this video. (trying to learn better positioning and decision making) Where to position is key in comp. and taking advantage of certain situations. Playing further back as Zen and not playing frontline.
We love emong
Average zen player
@@Iceey2347 don't you play moira?
@@Iceey2347 I love emong for content plus I'm doom main
@@Iceey2347 I don't play npc heroes like moiras
@@Iceey2347 are you projecting? xD
really like the more educational-focused videos like this
"They played Valorant and CSGO" ok I'm already in pain
Zen always gets flamed for either low heals or not having a perfect ult. You’ll have your tank and dps constantly mess up or get no value ults but heaven forbid if Zen doesn’t save the whole team 3 times per minute with his ult, he’ll get flamed for not using his ult “correctly”
The main problem is that the low base heals of Zen need to be offset by his potential to apply pressure, and applying pressure means your team takes less damage thus you need less heals. So if you on Zen fail to apply enough pressure to offset your limited healing potential, then yes you technically are "not healing enough". This is not to say your allies aren't dumb fucks who stand in the open and eat damage like it's a free buffet, of course they will do this and complain about healing.. of course. But the point is, when you pick Zen you are making an active decision that says "I don't need healing if the enemies are dead or pressured out of every good position to do damage from". And you need to live and die for this mindset.
@@Real_MisterSirThis. Entirely THIS. THANK YOU
@@Real_MisterSir same with Lucio. Zen and Lucio need to find their Value outside of healing. And if you have both Zen AND Lucio at once, they need to find a whole lot of that value. And arguably Brig counts for this as well.
@@dyamonde9555 Yea, and in reality this mindset actually goes for all supports, it's just that with some of them there is more leeway in which way you swing depending on the context. Some supports are more forgiving by offering high heal potential and save mechanics (like Ana, Bap, Kiri), and others like Zen and Lucio are more dependent on carrying out their prime value tool with no other real option to fall back on. It's why they also demand more discipline to play.
@@Real_MisterSir aight bro do ever miss
@15:55 Nah, this could’ve easily been waited out if this wasn’t a gold lobby. He popped his ult offensively and all the other team had to do was back up and not commit ultimates. The only reason this ended up working is because all the gold players on both teams saw an ult and their q key neurons activated. Very braindead Zen ult here.
Excellent commentary. Zen main here, trying to not suck with my positioning 😅
3 rules of thumb for Zen positioning:
1. Always try to off angle to apply consistent pressure (to bypass shields and enemy team's natural cover, as well as spread their attention between two directions of attack)
2. Be sure your off angle has a short and easy way to get back to your team with minimal downtime
3. Be sure your off angle has a short and easy way to push up and maintain pressure if the enemy frontline starts collapsing/falling back
If you can handle these 3 steps in every single situation, you will climb and your positioning will never be an issue.
Positioning tends to be bad for Zen when you just sit in your team's backline somewhere behind your tank, because it means if your tank fails to do anything, then you are second in line for the enemy aggression. It means every shot that misses your tank or passes through your tank, also has a chance to hit you just by the fact that you play behind them. So first step is to not play behind your tank. If you for some reason can't find a safe off angle to apply pressure from, then off angle your own tank. This ensures enemy fire strikes will not hit you. It ensures enemies shooting at your tank will not also have you as a potential secondary target. It ensures abilities and ults like Earth shatter don't also hit you if your tank fails to block them, etc. Just never play straight behind your tank unless you have no other options, and if you have no other options you must at minimum put a great distance between you and your tank.
TIL Emongg and I share a birthday. Hope you had a great one! 🎂🎂
as a zen main in gold, im happy to see this
so in case the submitter sees this I have some additional tips/comments:
Firstly - are you sure you want to be playing support? Yes it is support not healer and you don't want to be healbotting but you're out here putting your heal orb on the tank and then just dpsing and tunnel visoning on that. There were a bunch of times your support/dps could have used the orb and you ignored them to dps instead. Yes zen is about fragging out but playing support is about awareness. You should be playing behind your dps to keep an eye on them and to juggle orb when needed not just tuning them out unless they're crit.
Also your discord uptime is poor, not only with coming back from spawn all the time but you should use it before shooting not after. Granted there are situations where it's best to shoot first (volley peeks for eg) but this was a habit for you where you'd shoot a bunch of left clicks and *then* discord which is wasting your value.
You are peeking too early for volleys. You need to stay behind cover for longer before releasing cause there were a bunch of times you were just sat out in the open for the last part of the charge and you could have been burst down yourself.
You can cancel volley with melee! Means you have to reload less if you peek and the enemy has gone cause you don't waste ammo.
I will say, against divers like Genji, you wanna stay in a spot where you can go back to your team if need be. So not the other side of the map either.
Happy Birthday Emongg! 🎂
Your advice has finally clicked for me 🎉 I'm doing so much better in games. I got to silver 3 to 1in open q.heck ya
Moving on up
I recommend playing role q. The game makes a lot more sense that way
Roll q is a nightmare I'd rather play open q so at least there is more of a chance to carry or squeeze out a win and switch rolls if other players decide they want to be a one trick who don't care moving up in rank
@@eachfilly825One tricks usually rank up faster because they master one hero and are better with that than other people who switch when they're countered etc.
@@-aku2805 maybe if there serious about the game other wise they don't care or are not smart enough to make the play
That was gold? In my games (gold-dia) they take Widow/Ashe on that map and he would be dead in an instant, period.
I would love if the enemy supports played like that.
when i play zen I mostly just bait the living hell out of my teammates and shoot safely behind their backs
kiriko with mobility played more safe than zen who is slow like snail
Happy Birthday!!!
My guess is that maybe just maybe this Zen thinks that 30 meters is the limit to discord orb and then it shuts off. Maybe explains why he is so close?
well the tank over extends and it becomes a 1v4 for them, then I as kiriko tp to save them, saved them and then they leaves me alone in that 1v4 situation.
you're choosing to take a 2v4 fight. that's not a fight you should take. yeah, your tank shouldn't do that, but there's no reason for you to go feed with them. as supports, we can't control what our teammates do, but we do get to control what we do.
I have seen Ana standing front of the tank.
Since ow2 doesnt have a minimap system you have to make use of pings more often.
That person would be perma dead if the enemy has a Widow/Hanzo who can hit their shots. The positioning is awful, especially for Zenyatta who relies so much on exactly that
The amount of time he just skipped over putting heal orb on anyone because he gotta shoot those charged volley really ticked me off. Just cancel it with melee or release it, put heal orb on someone and charge again. The entire thing would've take him 1 second.
Get used to being blamed if you main zen
*if you main support
I can’t count how many times my tanks go too far from their supports then blame us for not healing enough when they’re the sole target of the enemy team lol
You'll eventually tune it out. Don't die for your tank's stupidity.
If someone starts bitching about heals I simply refuse the heal them for the rest of the game
@@_bizmo_fungus_894That's basically the mentality I've developed as well.
@@_bizmo_fungus_894or you could mute and block them like a mature adult and then keep playing the game. just a thought. no need to throw by abandoning a teammate.
I love good content 😂
Playing off angles is what makes kiriko great for me personally and zen absolutely awful.
I really like to play off angles and a hero like kiriko allows me to be in multiple places at once that way.
That said, thanks to watching emongg on dva and flats on rein I am a higher rank in tank.
You need to be dealing way more damage more consistently
I saw the video and was like i hope someone didnt submit thos about me bc the other day I accidentally queued for ranked on all, got healer which i dont play and played mystery heroes bc tanks wasn’t protecting well
9:27 is vikingkong_ funding ur Bday emonng?
Is it possible for you to spectate my mercy movement/gameplay? I do I submit?
Not too bad, is still bad.