I think Beerus' wall problem came from Toriyama not thinking ahead. The series demands that Goku's power grows quickly over time, but Beerus was specifically created to be the saiyans' "goal", so they artificially increase the gap.
Yeah, its clear that when Beerus was created, they never thought about the half dozen or so characters that will be introduced later that would be 'the strongest that Goku and Vegeta have fought'. Like bruh, Beerus was already at 70% in BoG when Goku JUST learned God Ki. What do you mean, he is still stronger than all of these people? The Jiren power level dialogues is important. Jiren's level and beyond is when the artifical gap increase for Beerus is noticeable.
Pretty much, and Battle of Gods was never intended to kick start a new series until the monumental revenue came pouring in. He's gotten much better about this with Broly and Superhero, but Beerus is still a plot tumor.
@@trenthoward6800 Ultra Instinct is probably the best example of long-term planning in the series, since its been several arcs and Goku is still working on it. Same with Frieza, they didn't bring him back right away after the TOP
Imo super just stopped having the exponential growth that was in the Namek saga. Vegeta said it himself that Jiren wasn't really much more powerful than them. To me, its pretty clear they plateaud a long time ago.
I think the main issue is BoG was originally supposed to be a standalone one-and-done, only when it proved to be such a massive success did they ask Akira to expand the story and lore, hence requiring Beerus to stay ahead. It's come with issues but I actually like the idea of a guy Goku can't surpass in the span of one arc.
I always saw the Gods of destruction having three points of power that are referenced. 1. Their power before they became a god of destruction which could be what was being referenced as the 70% against Goku. 2. The state where they are using their base state without using destruction energy which is way stronger than the pre-GOD power level. 3. Their full power state when they are fully imbued with their destruction energy which only the angels can be compared to.
Also I'm sure they intentionally wrote Beerus' so if anyone in the actual show or manga asks about the inconsistent % he's given over time he can just shrug and say he lied to make Goku motivated to keep getting stronger and it 100% would fit his character to do that. I could see Whis chiming in saying that's exactly what the deal with Monaca was making Beerus shout that he wasn't going to tell them THAT part lol
This is all contradicted in the battle royale. The grand priest tells them all that the intention behind this battle royale is for them to fully fight each other with the intention of finishing each other off (cant use the word because youtube), and that the last one that SURVIVES, gets a reward. We see them all take a brutal amount of damage and they are trying to end each other, so no, they arent holding back some secret "god of destruction energy mode" that gives them a level of power we have never seen. If such a thing existed, it WOULD have been used during that match, as they are being told to and are going at each other with the intention of ending each other and have every reason to use it but doesnt, which means it doesnt exist or its a retcon if so.
Masako you may be shadowbanned by RUclips. Today and Tuesday your videos never showed up on the Subscription page. On Tuesday I thought it was because of Pokémon, but not today. Tuesday's appeared on my Home page, but I had to click your channel to see this.
@@MasakoX Well if it helps, your videos always appear on my RUclips homepage I rarely pay attention to notifications to any channel, so I can't help you about that 😅
Bro SSJ2 Gohan and Super Perfect Cell were both Solar System level and Krillin surpassed that in thr Buu Saga when he and Yamcha trained in the Afterlife on the Grand Kai World and both of them could take on Two master martial artists who are stronger than Cell and one shot them easily. That's easily Solar System+ maybe even up to Multi Solar System level but then you're getting into SSJ3 and Fat Buu/Kid Buu levels Erich during thr Buu Saga, they definitely weren't on that level. In Super, during the T.O.P. Krillin was able to beat someone who could easily beat Android 18 and that person could also beat Base Gohan who after like a day of training, was able to match with Goku even in SSJ which at that point would be Low Multiversal. So Krillin would be Multi Universal to Low Multiversal and could probably one shot Goku from BOG, maybe even beat Freeza and SSJB Goku from ROF, hell he could probably even give Hit a good fight, at least Hit before he trained and unleashed his potential.
Another thing to consider is the anime and manga have different power scales so considering info from one to directly influence the other cause a lot of chaos in an already unclear situation
As I commented on a recent RevoluShane video; "...When it comes to the comparison of Cell-Max and Broly, the fact is that they keep saying that ONLY if Cell-Max had been completed would he have been able to 'beat' Broly. (The interview translation said Broly couldn't 'defeat' Cell-Max, not that he was less powerful.) You have to remember that in the SuperHero Movie they basically said Cell-Max's physical form was finished, they just hadn't installed his 'brain', or all the information and data they had collected. That seems to me that it implies that power-wise Broly was already stronger that Cell-Max's body, but it's Broly's inexperience that is the major difference, just as Freeza stated at the end of the Broly Movie. Completed Cell-Max, with his brain installed (Mr.Perfect-Cell-Max) AT THE TIME of the Superhero movie would have been able to beat the CURRENTLY inexperienced and not-fully trained Broly. If Broly had the experience, was trained, had full control over his Legendary Super Saiyan transformation, I'm certain he would have crushed a completed Cell-Max, possibly even easier than SSJ2 Gohan did to the first Perfect Cell." The only reason one can argue that Broly is weaker than other main characters at the moment is that he hasn't had any time to train (comparatively). Once Broly learns how to access his full power at will, I have no doubt he will rocket past everyone else. Because if he doesn't, it questions why they ever bothered to reboot him into cannon, and effectively making him, if not a full good-guy, then at least a neutral-party ally that casts a massive power shadow over the rest of the series.
Great video Masako, I really think the final image you showed is a great scale between the characters. I don't know how into powerscaling you are, if at all, and I have my own opinions, but generally I think that's a pretty accurate scale to show to anyone who is confused or wondering who is the strongest. My manga ranking: 1) Beerus, 2) Black Frieza, 3-4) Beast Gohan and Super Hero era Broly, 5-8) Cell Max, Super Hero era Goku and Vegeta, Orange Piccolo, 9) Gas, 10) Granola, 11) Moro, 12) Merus, 13) Jiren (Edit: 14 Belmod). My anime ranking (less confident with Super Hero era characters): 1-2) Beast Gohan and Super Hero era Broly, 3-9) MUI Goku, Gogeta Blue, Limit Broken Jiren, Cell Max, Orange Piccolo, Super Hero era Goku and Vegeta, 10) the Gods of Destruction, 11) Blue Evolution level, 12) Blue level. I'd put the Gammas at either 11 or 12.
I always interpreted that Jiren is the strongest in terms of his base power and he doesn't have much of a boost in terms of power ups But the brolly movie dashed that theory real quick Because if it was a measure of base power at least it would be understood that in base form Jiren stands above everyone but as soon as transformations and powerups happen the multipliers begin to overshadow him
I'm still thoroughly convinced that with all these new forms the manga is very heavily leaning towards the answer of "they're all the strongest in their own way." Goku, Vegeta, (probably) Broly, Piccolo, Gohan, (probably) Goten and Trunks all have unique forms which have their own strengths, weaknesses, origins, and connections to their personalities or character backgrounds. With the exception of Broly, and the younger half saiyans, they all seem to be roughly as powerful as each other, and I wouldn't be surprised that in a fight they could all win against one another in various battle conditions, and if they had the right battle strategy. In short, while I realize that a lot of people want a definitive answer and a clear single winner, I think that the entire question will become moot at some point in the near future in the manga.
i hope goten and trunks get something, ssj1 just ain't gonna cut it anymore. if they gave them ssg but said it was really strong because they were hybrids i wouldn't mind, don't even need to give them blue but obviously ssg is basically just a stepping stone to blue at this point so whatever 😮💨
I always just assumed that SSG Goku being able to measure up to 70% power Beerus was true, AT THAT TIME. I think the point of the Saiyans being introduced into Beerus' life is that he finally has a reason to train again. So through every arc of DBS, Beerus has been doing GoD level training to stay ahead of them. So by the logic I'm going by, MUI Goku and Ego Vegeta have surpassed Battle of Gods Beerus by massive amounts, but Beerus manages to stay ahead of them through his own training off screen. Also, "full power Beerus" might not take into account any transformation potential he may have. Perhaps he has is own form of Ultra Ego that sends his potential even further beyond what he has displayed up until now. Even more interesting, Whis has stated that Beerus has done ultra instinct training but has yet to master it himself. Maybe some day Beerus could debut a wholly unique transformation that blends Ego and Instinct into his own unique form that surpasses what both Goku and Vegeta can do.
You also always have to consider the "rock, paper, scissors" match-ups when directly comparing characters. Jiren's claim to power might just be due to how his Ultra Instinct works. The Destroyers may still technically be more powerful than him - but that won't let them win a fight if they can't land a hit on him. Same goes for the Angels, whose "strength" mainly comes from their reality warping powers, not their physical prowess.
My prediction with how the power scale ladder has been going: After they have a multiversal arc where they defeat the strongest mortal in the multiverse and then when the erased universes from a looooong time ago come back somehow, probably super dragon balls, they'll have to defeat the G.O.D.s from them. After that, I think they'll finally be on the same power scale as Beerus and make him start taking them seriously as G.O.D. candidates
I think people take the "Cell Max may have given Goku and Vegeta trouble" line a bit too literally. He was going on a rampage and could have easily gotten out of hand by just destroying the Earth like Freeza did when he rage quit. They probably would have just had issues like they did in the film where they needed to keep him somewhat still so they could attack the weak point. Which is probably what Piccolo meant by the "give them trouble" line.
Nah the current chapter shows Goku going straight to Mastered UI before fighting Beast Gohan, if he thought for a second he was stronger he'd do the transformation ladder from ssj he always does. Beast Gohan is stronger than Getes and Goku and Piccolo is on par with the two. Remember Piccolo was stronger than everyone for a minute there in the android saga from his power up re-fusing with Kami. Namekians are also a species with incredible potential for power and Piccolo never had his potential unlocked before Super Hero. If it helps to ease your frustration just keep in mind Vegeta and Goku never had their potential unlocked either but are on par with Piccolo (who has never stopped training in his life, was almost as strong as Goku when Piccolo was less than 5 years old and got his potential unlocked by the freakin dragonballs which for him being a Namekian, so home field advantage, who's 1/3rd dragon clan from fusing with Kami it is probably more potent than the Elder Kai's ritual would be for him) and the two are only one level below Gohan's power, who was stronger than everyone until Goku and Vegeta unlocked ssj 2 post-Cell games. If Goku and Vegeta had their potential unlocked and fused I'd bet they'd be stronger than Beerus!
@@CerealExperimentsMizukiNot at all, i mean Beast Gohan was crearly stronger than Cell Max and if Gohan now its on par o maybe stronger then his dad that means Goku mui and Vegeta ue > Cell Max while Piccolo organge was truly not stronger than Cell Max so Piccolo can be near but not on par and if Gohan was able to quickly beat Cell so also Goku or Vegeta and Im not consider them toghether that would be insane
Alive characters-(universe 7) with extras in () for reference, excluding gods :- 1. Freiza 2. Gohan (Gas)extra 3. Goku 4. Vegeta 5. Granolah (Moro) extra 6. Broly (Cell max somewhere here) extra (Jiren) extra 7. Piccolo (Toppo)extra 8. Gamma 1 (Dyspo)extra 9. Goten and Trunks 10. Majin Boo
I love how you mentioned Stan Lee’s (R.I.P.) quote because it’s so true I kinda like the Gohan is at least on par with MUI Goku (from what we’ve seen) and that Orange Piccolo is close in power to Cell Max (and super duper buff)
I think the easiest and most Comedic solution they could give to Beerus power level would be to say that Goku and Vegeta have already surpassed where Beerus was during the battle of God ark, but Beerus is still ahead because he's been secretly training when no one is around
im hoping toyotaro tries to bring in an in-universe explanation as to why the beerus goalpost keeps moving, possibly via explaining that he's been training in secret. I mean, he was scared hard by SSJBKKx10, and now goku has UI, vegeta has UE, and the balance of mortals and god's power becoming more even, i'd imagine even beerus would see the writing on the wall and would realize he has to train HARD
If we consider that Toppo accessing God of Destruction Ki and using it as a power boost is something every God of Destruction can do, it means that Beerus still has a completely unknown power multiplier in his back pocket that would also give him effective immunity to Ki attacks and infuse every attack he does with Hakai. All of the others at their full power might very well be as strong or stronger than Beerus, God of Destruction(Job title), but still vastly beneath God of Destruction Beerus
People have been agreeing with that ever since it was stated that he surpasses thr Ultra forms, you rarely ever see anybody try to argue against that and when they do, their arguments always fall flat because it's not supported by anything, anywhere.
I hate it. I mean is good to see Piccolo back but not like this. So if Piccolo would have make that wish after seeing the power of Bills and SSJ God. Piccolo literally could eliminate Golden Frieza and save the destruction of earth, defeat Black and save original Future Trunks timeline, eliminate all the warriors of the tournament of power including Kale, Hit, Toppo and Jiren by himself, Piccolo could defeat Broly and Moro when they out his first foot on Earth. The fact the only with a simple wish at the right time he could literally handle all DB by his own Is a total BS. And now he is God level, stupid Granola and Gas they talked with the wrong Dragon, Shenlong can give you God/Ángel like powers without risking your years of life. Piccolo was really the best friend for literally doing nothing during five sagas only for Goku and Vegeta have some protagonism.
I've been arguing with other Dragon Ball fans online about how power levels aren't accurate for so long. Most still think the only reason scouters weren't accurate is that the heroes were hiding their power. But no, even when going all out, the heroes ki still spikes upwards. In super the powers have stopped growing anywhere near as much as they used to. A lot of fans base their ideas about power growth from the namek saga, which was absolutely absurd. But again, the Namek saga was also operating off inaccurate information.
The only thing I don't want to see in Dragon Ball is Goku, Vegeta, Frieza or whoever defeat Beerus. Because the guy has trained for thousands of years, he is one of, if not the strongest GoD, so Goku and others defeat him, I'm going to be upset, because their level was never close when they met, and I still don't feel even close to them being at the level of power, experience and techniques that Beerus has... For me, they don't have to defeat Beerus at the end of the manga, maybe just have a more intense fight, but nothing that will make Beerus close to losing, because that would disrespect Beerus' thousands of years of training and experience.
...And also, come on, the dragon ball thing is about training and overcoming yourself, if they beat Beerus in the end, well, then it will be a generic anime that the person only wins because they are the protagonist and because it doesn't show That training and experience makes a difference.
IMo a lot of the confusion probably comes to both the anime and manga from the get go retcon’d the line about Beerus using 70% of his power in the final attack in the BoG movie. Also it doesn’t help that both the anime and manga basically had cliff notes for what needs to happen, so there being inconsistencies with power scaling makes sense. Especially with the manga doing the tournament of power after the anime’s conclusion. Once the DBS anime returns, we’ll see just how close the anime will follow the manga or not, seeing as it actually has something to go off of now instead of just cliff notes.
4:35 I'd argue the-latter are stronger solely on the fact that they have control over their power, while Broly can output more raw power, it would be everywhere, unfocused, and most of it proving useless in a fight, or even an arm wrestling match. _Long winded, confused, analogy incomming:_ Like someone constantly pouring a giant water-cooler bottle of water into a shot glass, only a tiny amount is actually in the glass and the rest ends up all over the floor. The glass is Broly's actual controllable amount of power, and the bottle is his reserves, Goku and Vegeta while would struggle to keep dry if someone chucked the entire bottle at them like a maniac, could easily topple Broly when he carefully tries to pour the shot glass of actual controllable power on them, meanwhile the two fighting pros would have fine tuned precision water guns at this stage of their skill and technique despite having only a gallon jug each, they can actually aim... That was the weirdest analogy I've ever made, just ignore it.
Eventually, the strongest will be Goku as long as age doesn't limit his absolute potential because of Bardock's wish. It is in Goku's desire to get stronger and to fight strong fighter, so Bardock's wish ( wishing Goku to achieve everything he aims for) will help him to be the strongest. With that being said, Vegeta is the strongest :)
Black Frieza is obviously the strongest mortal at the moment. Whether he's stronger than Beerus or not we'll have to see. Probably not but honestly he should be.
feel whis/the angels(also tori-bot.:3) are the strongest with the g.o.d's following & really love to see more of them actually get into action. tbh outside the original/wrathful/god feel a majority of the heroes transformations are unearned(actually like gohan's in super hero more/the z fighters fighting getting hits on cell max compared to cell being a fight goku/the z fighters ganging up on him would've won.) and like super broly's transformation having weight where with jiren it was broken in a antagonist just there to be an antagonist(when tbh it was goku.)/toppo being a better character and in frieza's case he's a royal space brat that will never change deep down while i definitely think he'll be actually close to the forms enough to marathon them instead of being a sprinter with a leaky engine it's going to end with him dying into his hell tree again. prefer the saiyans never reach beerus & definitely whis power and instead have uub(with how he has the potential to use some of kid buu's moves being a reincarnation/having a supreme kai's power.) be trained to be the next g.o.d of destruction.
Besides angels, Beerus is the strongest and if there is any sense of reason in DB he'll always be. He's smth between 200 million and 1 billion y o(!). If he spent 90% of his time with sleeping, 5% with eating, 4% with annoying whis and just 1% with destruction/training/fighting, this will translate to 10 million years! Imagine living for 100 time for 100 years, where you hit the bars/fight NON STOP. This 0,1% Beerus did. Would be no suprise if he has like 100 stackable transformations and 1000s of techniques we don't know of.. It goes: GP >>> Angels >>> Beerus > GoDs >>>>>>>..>>> Mortals
If frieza was in the time chamber he found when the wishes of strength were made, (1) maybe the dragon couldn't take his power into account as he couldn't be sensed from within the time chamber, or (2) because time was dilated, granola got made stronger than frieza was at that moment, but as he was still in the chamber training, frieza was able to work past the gap n surpass him as the strongest again.
I won't say this is the "definitive" ranking, but basing this off of both the anime (movies included) / manga continuities, I believe it goes like this: ( This also includes LIVING characters, so Granolah, Moro, etc. doesn't apply here, as well as any characters which new strength feats are speculated, such as jiren. ) ☝Freeza ( Three years before Chapter 103, or the Granolah arc, Frieza trains in an ambiguous ROSAT on a planet he conquered for ten years. This gives Frieza the strength to effortlessly take out Gas whose strength surpassed anything he's had before, as well as an Ultra Instinct 'Sign' Goku and Ultra Ego Vegeta in one hit.🤯) ✌ Son Gohan ( While Gohan may still be less experienced than Goku, the strength required to knock Goku out of Ultra Instinct in one hit while he's on guard is an insane feat. This feat is even greater when you realize that in order to land this blow in the first place, Gohan had to out-speed Goku in his Ultra Instinct State.👀) 👌 Son Goku ( Gohan may be stronger than Goku, but Goku's strength is still up there a little behind Gohan with him knocking him back many times throughout the fight, as well as the many speed feats presented even *after* Gohan powers up during the battle. 💪 ) 4. Bejita ( Vegeta may not have shown everything he has to offer against the stars of Chapter 103, being Goku and Gohan, he still shows his dominance against this even stronger Broly. Taking a direct blow to the forehead by Broly in his base state with no major damage done, as well as overwhelming Broly in a Super Saiyan State. ) 5. Burori ( The first fight with Vegeta did show Broly slowly start adapting to base, and even Super Saiyan Vegeta. However, a feat that is notable to mention is Broly shocking the rest of the saiyans with his controlled Super Saiyan state, even Gohan in his Beast state was shocked by his level of power. ) 6. Pikkoro ( While the statements of Piccolo being on par with Goku and Vegeta's level of power are slightly outdated, especially considering these feats were for the DBSSH MOVIE and not the arc, I do still think he is up there in terms of power. I just arguably think Broly has the better feats, as I stated previously. ) 7. Merus ( The angel in training was revived by the end of the Moro arc, and while his angel powers are no longer with him, he does still presumably have Ultra Instinct. At least the fundamentals of it sort of like Muten Roshi has done in the T.O.P prior. Not to mention without his angel abilities in use, he speed blitzed Goku and Vegeta at the beginning of the Moro arc, and successfully one-tapped them. ) 8. Gamma 1 ( This superhero was able to push Gohan into his Ultimate form and still put up a good enough fight against the former Great Saiyaman, however, being stated to be Super Saiyan Blue level by many, he would obviously be weaker than Piccolo in his Orange state, meaning he wouldn't really be able to do much past Merus level of power. Still, a great strategist and fighter who deserves this spot on the ranking. ) 9. Boo ( In the Moro arc of DBS, Buu obtained a huge strength boost after unlocking past memories of Moro, overwhelming Moro unlike Goku and Vegeta at the time who struggled at the planet-eaters magics. Buu having his many assortment of wacky abilities as well, I believe his power is still one to be reckoned with, and one not to be forgotten ) 10. Jiren ( His use of his power still being used to improve Goku and Vegeta's fighting capabilities long after the T.O.P really prove just how much of an intelligent man Jiren truly was, and in the manga he proved to not just compete with Ultra Instinct Goku, but downright beat him in the transformation/technique after simply...powering up past it. Truly deserving of the title, "The mortal who surpassed his God of Destruction" )
power level dictates strength and maybe ability; scouters never accounted for techniques training tactics etc. Overwhelming power levels will dwarf everything, but guile and tactics can overcome. Perfect example - the Cholate Trojan Horse defeating a version Buu.
"They can’t keep changing Beerus’s power forever." They shouldn’t have done it in the first place. Not without revealing he’s been training so Goku and the others couldn’t reach him yet. "The lines from the anime can be disregarded." No. (Unless I misunderstood) Not any more than the manga. Like I said, they shouldn’t be able to retcon a character’s power how many times they want, so what was said before in each versions should be taken into account or we just throw away all coherence.
Hey buddy, sorry to break it to you, but the writers have a perfectly valid in character out for the inconsistent % of power stated. Ya know what would happen if a character in universe asked him what the deal is with that? He'd just admit he lied to keep Goku motivated to get stronger, which is exactly what having Monaca around was about. Unfortunately, the TTT aint taking the series as seriously as you are and just do what sounds cool. Case and point xeno allowing people to break rules in T.O.P. like using items literally just because it's cool looking, THAT is Dragonball now that is what it is at its core, that is what the in universe controller of everything and the real world owners of the IP want
@@silasstryder I see your point but I stand by mine, respectfully. Although, the part where "Beerus lied" doesn't work when we're taking reactions of him where he isn't interacting with Goku or Vegeta and is still impressed or even shocked by what they are doing, like when he was shocked and even annoyed that Goku pulled off UI before him. And as for the rest, I just like stories to have consistencies with themselves or we lose quite a bit, wether it is through power scaling, or other types of retcons (such as Bardock, for example). You're free to think that way, the way I see it, inconsistencies can go from being a minor flaw to a big problem, and this problem has been increasingly apparent with Dragon Ball, even if there is still quality work being produced and even if I still enjoy it. There are still things we can criticize about it.
@@silasstryder That doesnt work as we know for a fact he was fighting 100% seriously in the battle royale, the grand priest ordered them to try to en-d each other, and that the last one that survives gets a reward. There is zero reason for beerus to hold back then when he is allowed to en-d each other, is told to en-d them, gets a reward if he survives and wins, and is getting brutally damaged during the whole fight. All of this is proof that no there is no "lol i held back", that would contradict whats literally happening on the page.
Cell max in the manga is also underatted considering he was weakened and had no brain but still held his own in a beam struggle with beast gohan and needed goten and trunks to distract him for gohan to win the beam struggle. Which would actually make cell max stronger then beast gohan.
Right? Made me wish the manga came out first and the movie built off of that because the movie in my head reading that chapter was a lot better than the actual movie
@@silasstryder I mean toyo needed to switch up his scaling since he made goku and vegeta stronger then broly by end of moro arc and the movie/anime verse has goku and vegeta still weaker then broly.
@@BeastXIS Facts brother, glad im not the only one who sees that considering how nerfed cell max was lol. If cell max had his brain for 100% completion it maybe would've needed ui,ue,beast and orange team up or fusion again lol.
@@edwardgoliath5295 This just shows how underrated Orange Piccolo is since he kept up with Cell Max to an extent, damaged him with his mouth blast (even sent him flying with it in the manga) and restrained him while injured himself so Gohan can deliver the final blow Orange Piccolo is very strong
The way I rationalize Beerus is that UI Goku snd UE Vegeta and I guess Beast Gohan can match Beerus.... in base. If Beerus were to use his incomplete UI or even more his undoubted fully mastered UE well... the Beerus mountain is pretty high indeed.
No its just a retcon, in the battle royale he was fighting to the death with the other gods of destruction. That is what the grand priest told all the gods of destructions to do, and we see beerus badly damaged at the end, so there is ZERO indication that he was holding back in the battle royale, it simply is just a retcon that he is still somehow stronger than MUI goku and UE vegeta
Beerus thought he wiped out the dinosaurs but in reality he didn't, but that still give us an idea how old Beeurs is, or at least how long he's been a destroyer.
8:33 Why are you just being biased with this? Jin never said he could "obliterate" other destroyers if they were hit by his ki blast, all he said was "That was a close one" it means he would have probably been heavily damaged but its never stated that the blast would "obliterate" them. Also you just completely ignore in the previous panel when goku is worried about the goods of destructions, Whis says that, nah he is SURE they are fine. Clearly adding credence that they werent going to be completely obliterated by one blast duh Also you are just extremely BIASED here as if you want to bring up that, why not bring up when Belmod traps all the gods at once and they are worried that belmod might actually end them all, why are you ignoring this? Also another note too, Liquirs blas gave a WAY bigger explosion and was given way more emphasis compared to beeruses ki blast, yet belmod tanked it completely and was 100% fine. So all the evidence points to belmod not being a weakling and actually being comparable to beerus, yet you want to use his age as your central argument for why he is weaker? Is this a joke? Buu is apparently stronger than goku and vegeta by that logic then
Broly is the benchmark for perfect cell max potential power measuring so it’s safe to say full power Broly legendary super saiyan is at least equal to or greater than beast gohan So the hierarchy goes Angels and above them Meerus original power Beerus = vegito/gogeta = quitela (Cell revived) Super perfect cell Max = black frieza Perfect Cell Max Broly Gohan beast Cell Max Vegeta Goku = Arale Gas Granola Moro Orange piccolo Jiren Belmod Rest of the gods of destruction Toppo god Kefla Slim buu Hit New androids Uub Aniraza Kale
Does no one here think Broly didn't improve since his movie? I think hes on the cusp of flattening Goku and Vegeta's level in short order. Seriously, the way hes being used in the story is hinting at a huge payoff.
I kind of power scale beerus to everyone else similar to magnitude. If super saiyan god is a 6 and beerus is a 10 hes still leagues ahead of ssg and thatd track withe everything. Now what i want in the manga going forward is more strategy and abilities. UI has perfect evasion but others need to have somethibg or else theres not much difference between say gohan beast and super saiyan beyond just power
Bro that 6 and 10 scale is completely and utterly worthless and unusable for more then that specific movie. In ROF Goku would've surpassed Berrus by many times just after unlocking SSJB.
At that point does having advantage of a 1,000,000 power points more than you opponents stop being a making difference in a fight? It appears that the Gammas could read Gohan's power level and judge it to their abilities.
The proportional difference is more important. Between powers that are in the 100million range, a 1 million difference factors as a 1% margin. Meanwhile, a power level of 4000 (Nappa) can easily eclipse a power level of 1200 (Raditz)
You know it's dumb but it fits perfectly for all these videos lately but what if Ox king trained with the Z fighters. I know it sounds ridiculous but hey we already have yajirobe so why not make it an April what if cause then we can do some FUNNY tropes that would fit with this perfectly. Just saying.😅
trouble is.. and hear me out its all to do with the movie coming out before granola ended, when gohan piccolo said "even dad and vegeta would struggle against cell max". this is based on what they know of there power. and from what we seen in manga last time gohan piccolo saw goku vegeta was morro arc. after that they both went to train on beerus did granola arc then went straight back. so gohan and piccolo do not know about ultra ego and true ultra instinct or black frieza.. so
11:14 I agree with the scale you came up with except I believe goku and vegeta are stronger than Granolah since Goku and Vegeta by the end of the fight could actually fight and harm Gas consistently with TUI and UE even when Gas started becoming a zombie but after a certain point the only effective way Granolah could contribute was by using his life force to do damage. Also Cell Max isn't stated to be stronger than broly, the statement you showed at 2:05 says "If Cell Max had been completed according to plan, he would have been a superhuman who even Broly couldn't defeat, but since he was forcibly activated, he became an uncontrollable monster." Now to me and many others who powerscale this statement outright confirms or heavily implies that since Cell Max wasn't completed he's weaker than Broly or at the very least just about as strong but not stronger and Orange Piccolo with help from other characters still lost to this incomplete Cell Max. So how I would rearrange the board is Cell Max slightly below or at the same spot broly and Jiren are, put Piccolo directly below Cell Max, Put Goku and vegeta above Granolah but still below Gas when he started becoming a Zombie and everyone else is fine. That's how I would scale them but if you don't agree that's perfectly fine keeping track of this is confusing which why so many are hype to see if gohan or goku wins.
Maasako your bias is showing quite a lot in the video when you are just disregarding all the statements made about Jirens power relating to the gods of destruction, why are you just ignoring them because its inconvenient for your biased narrative? Belmod should at the very least be comparable to beerus, absolutely everything in the anime continuity, and in the manga continuity supports this. So when jiren is then stated to be stronger than belmod on numerous occasions, and MUI goku both in the anime and manga far surpassing this jiren, it is then OBJECTIVELY a massive retcon for Beerus to somehow be several tiers above Goku and Vegeta. Yet you write it off as being logical when its obviously a retcon
Hello, i have a question, who Design and create kefla, i know the story of toei products creating kale and toriyama sensei creating caulifla to make a pair character, but who make kefla. Toei team or Akira toriyama.
I like power scaling, but in reality.. I think dragonball should move away from PURE POWER. And insted go with skills, mastery and knowledge. Wich the tournament of power really came close to getting right. The last time this came into play succesfully was during the Cell Saga. Where "Buff Trunks" could damage perfect cell sure, but Cell points out: "You are too slow... and you can hit me all you like but 0 damage is 0 damage and I can wear you out." (Heavy paraphrazing) This is what I think true evolution of Dragonball lays. Specially with now everyone getting their own transformations. Goku Ultra Instinct... going fully on instinct and not being in battle but going with the flow. Able to dodge things fast and countering it near perfectly. (With the weakness being you are mostly reactionary and flawed in a way that you could be manipulated into taking hits.) Vegeta Ultra Ego... Being fully in the fight and the more damage and pain you gain, the more you will be to put out against your oppenent. (Basically Tank damage, hit harder. A perfect counterbalance to Ultra Instinct since now it becomes: "The longer the fight goes on, the more goku has to dodge but if Vegeta lands a blow.. Goku WILL go down. So it's either Goku has to take himself 100% out of the fight to win.. or risk being hit. Considering the broly movie shows us an outcome. I believe Goku would lose cause he wishes to stay fully in this epic battle and thus Vegeta will land the winning blow) Orange Picollo... Big, strong, stretch and can take several hits. I see this as a big bruiser type who isn't as fast but compensates it by being more unpredictable with the namekian talents. Super Namekian Grade 2 sorta say.. but with a body to compensate for the weakness of speed. (This one is simple, big target, means easy to hit regardless of stretchy limbs.) Gohan BEAST... Controlled Fury is what I call this. A combination of Knowledge and Rage. Calm but overbearing. A chaotic form who is both unpredictable and cunning. I can't say too much of this form since it had the least time in the movie and manga.. but this is defintally a form ment to counteract BROLY'S LEGENDARY FORM more then to deal with Ultra instinct. (Weakness being the mental state of Gohan, I am not sure but I think this form might be taking a toll on Gohan;s psyche. Or atleast that would be cool.. since he has to be super angry but super smart at the same time. And emotions and logic do not mix well. So it's either mental strain OR the fact you could bait Gohan into unbalancing the form?) Broly Legendar Super Saiyan... A form that keeps adapting to the oppenent but puts the the user into a beserker state. Yea this one is easy to explain how to beat... overpower before it can adapt OR out smart it. It's basically Ultra Ego in a way, but with a bigger drawback. Black Freeza... Can't say anything about this one, but considering Golden Freeza is about perfect ki manipulation that could manipulate the Ki of the gods (though a weak one). I think Black Freeza ain't just black to be the counter to Ultra Instinct.. I think Freeza took cues of the return of a certain Ram Man and was like: "What if I could absorb Ki like a black hole?" But thats speculation... this one I cannot say anything about.. but it's been a while since we had a powerful ki blast absorber like the androids. Or maybe black freeza is gonna be more about Ki redirection all together. Manipulate Ki to strike it's foe... that seems perfect freeza to me.
also wish all you want or train all you want, xeno erased an alt time line and threatened to erase other universes - the main counter is that the Super Dragon Balls countered that...but did they? or did xeno not counter the tournament results
At this level if anyone surpassed beerus Toriyama's writing is really going to be back in a corner then he would have to make the villains more powerful reaching angels' levels are surpassing it then it just going to get stupid at this point and DB will just turn into a fan manga with unbalanced power scaling like demon bluma out of nowhere more powerful than the grand priest Toriyama's first problems was ss god didn't get no screen time but no he went straight to ss blue then ultra instinct then you had people that wanted Ui Goku to be unbeatable then what is the point of the fights then if goku going to pull a whis on all his emeries' one shot ko then some fans wanted goku to be off stage 4 awhile let be honest without goku db is not going to be the same who wants to watch someone like Krillin and yamcha and to make those guys useful Toriyama's would have to make them super strong by doing that he would have to make all the z fighters stronger which means the next villain and beyond would have to be pretty much op broken to take on all the z fighters and most DB fan don't want a weaker are nerf battle either
I thibk this list is not accurate since the last time piccolo saw goku and vegeta was in the moro arc so his assesment of their strengh in comparisson to cell max would be behind their evolution since then
Yeah... I think you've been shadow banned. I didn't get any notifications today nor Tuesday... and there was no indication of a new video in my sub-box unless I went to your channel directly.
Im so done with db power scaling its one of the worst aspects nowadays tbh db was about martial arts and techniques, z was about progression and super/manga/movies is about bs ass pulls
vegeta is only stronger than goku in base and its like slightly if even that in transition wise goku is way ahead not only cuz hes had his ui for longer but he also can control it at will
@@keithcole8536 Hit is from thr anime and manga series Dragon Ball Super which is separate from the Dragon Ball manga even if it's a direct continuation. Also there's no evidence for Hit surpassing True Ultra Instinct Goku or Gohan Beast as he lost to suppressed Jiren in the T.O.P. even using the Time Cage and Gohan Beast has surpassed everything and everyone except for Freeza Black, and that includes Jiren. It goes Black Freeza>Gohan Beast>Orange Piccolo>Gas>True Ultra Instinct Goku>Ultra Ego Vegeta>Granolah>SJB Gogeta>Full Power SSJ Broly>Jiren and then Hit. That's if you don't count Kefla who's was drastically stronger than Hit and was able to contend with Omen grade 2 which far surpassed the previous SSJB Goku who was a match for Hit.
Im sorry but gohan is nowhere nere black frieza is, hes on par with MUI and UE. If gohan was that much stronger than goku then their sparing match would've been already over.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki We must be looking at different fandoms then. Because from what I’VE seen, the thought of OP being Ultra tier has been rejected by like 90% of the fanbase. Don’t get me wrong, if for one agree with the notion of Piccolo being that strong. I’m just saying I’ve seen nearly everyone else try and reject that statement.
@@selfloathinggivesmelife7810 damn, I've seen thr opposite, most people I know, know that Piccolo is Ultra tier and beyond, only a few try and fail to argue otherwise using headcannon that goes against what was directly stated, shown and promoted.
I think Beerus' wall problem came from Toriyama not thinking ahead. The series demands that Goku's power grows quickly over time, but Beerus was specifically created to be the saiyans' "goal", so they artificially increase the gap.
Yeah, its clear that when Beerus was created, they never thought about the half dozen or so characters that will be introduced later that would be 'the strongest that Goku and Vegeta have fought'. Like bruh, Beerus was already at 70% in BoG when Goku JUST learned God Ki. What do you mean, he is still stronger than all of these people? The Jiren power level dialogues is important. Jiren's level and beyond is when the artifical gap increase for Beerus is noticeable.
Pretty much, and Battle of Gods was never intended to kick start a new series until the monumental revenue came pouring in. He's gotten much better about this with Broly and Superhero, but Beerus is still a plot tumor.
@@trenthoward6800 Ultra Instinct is probably the best example of long-term planning in the series, since its been several arcs and Goku is still working on it. Same with Frieza, they didn't bring him back right away after the TOP
Imo super just stopped having the exponential growth that was in the Namek saga. Vegeta said it himself that Jiren wasn't really much more powerful than them. To me, its pretty clear they plateaud a long time ago.
I think the main issue is BoG was originally supposed to be a standalone one-and-done, only when it proved to be such a massive success did they ask Akira to expand the story and lore, hence requiring Beerus to stay ahead.
It's come with issues but I actually like the idea of a guy Goku can't surpass in the span of one arc.
I always saw the Gods of destruction having three points of power that are referenced.
1. Their power before they became a god of destruction which could be what was being referenced as the 70% against Goku.
2. The state where they are using their base state without using destruction energy which is way stronger than the pre-GOD power level.
3. Their full power state when they are fully imbued with their destruction energy which only the angels can be compared to.
Also I'm sure they intentionally wrote Beerus' so if anyone in the actual show or manga asks about the inconsistent % he's given over time he can just shrug and say he lied to make Goku motivated to keep getting stronger and it 100% would fit his character to do that. I could see Whis chiming in saying that's exactly what the deal with Monaca was making Beerus shout that he wasn't going to tell them THAT part lol
This is all contradicted in the battle royale. The grand priest tells them all that the intention behind this battle royale is for them to fully fight each other with the intention of finishing each other off (cant use the word because youtube), and that the last one that SURVIVES, gets a reward.
We see them all take a brutal amount of damage and they are trying to end each other, so no, they arent holding back some secret "god of destruction energy mode" that gives them a level of power we have never seen. If such a thing existed, it WOULD have been used during that match, as they are being told to and are going at each other with the intention of ending each other and have every reason to use it but doesnt, which means it doesnt exist or its a retcon if so.
This is kinda headcannon imo especially since we saw them go all out and they didn't have a different mode of power, good theory tho
The 70% power thing has been changed and contraddicted more times since
I like that we are basically somehow back to DBZ scaling with Gohan (rightfully) back on top.
Masako you may be shadowbanned by RUclips. Today and Tuesday your videos never showed up on the Subscription page. On Tuesday I thought it was because of Pokémon, but not today. Tuesday's appeared on my Home page, but I had to click your channel to see this.
I'm running an experiment to see how notifications impact the video.
Yeah. I almsot missed today and Tuesdays videos too
I get the notifications... from Twitter (x), after that RUclips magically sends it to me after I'm already watching the video
If it helps, I did get the notif @@MasakoX
@@MasakoX Well if it helps, your videos always appear on my RUclips homepage I rarely pay attention to notifications to any channel, so I can't help you about that 😅
Krillin couldnt make Perfect Cell flinch but Cell Max was definitely feeling the hits. Is he above SSJ2 level now?
Bro SSJ2 Gohan and Super Perfect Cell were both Solar System level and Krillin surpassed that in thr Buu Saga when he and Yamcha trained in the Afterlife on the Grand Kai World and both of them could take on Two master martial artists who are stronger than Cell and one shot them easily. That's easily Solar System+ maybe even up to Multi Solar System level but then you're getting into SSJ3 and Fat Buu/Kid Buu levels Erich during thr Buu Saga, they definitely weren't on that level.
In Super, during the T.O.P. Krillin was able to beat someone who could easily beat Android 18 and that person could also beat Base Gohan who after like a day of training, was able to match with Goku even in SSJ which at that point would be Low Multiversal.
So Krillin would be Multi Universal to Low Multiversal and could probably one shot Goku from BOG, maybe even beat Freeza and SSJB Goku from ROF, hell he could probably even give Hit a good fight, at least Hit before he trained and unleashed his potential.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki
Too bad we will never see that.
The Kienzan attack on Perfect Cell as anime only.
Yes, it's been more than ten years since cell and Krillin has continued training. Not that hard to grasp.
People will just ignore the random inconsistencies of Cell max power with his statements because of their Gohan and Piccolo agendas lol
Another thing to consider is the anime and manga have different power scales so considering info from one to directly influence the other cause a lot of chaos in an already unclear situation
As I commented on a recent RevoluShane video;
"...When it comes to the comparison of Cell-Max and Broly, the fact is that they keep saying that ONLY if Cell-Max had been completed would he have been able to 'beat' Broly. (The interview translation said Broly couldn't 'defeat' Cell-Max, not that he was less powerful.) You have to remember that in the SuperHero Movie they basically said Cell-Max's physical form was finished, they just hadn't installed his 'brain', or all the information and data they had collected. That seems to me that it implies that power-wise Broly was already stronger that Cell-Max's body, but it's Broly's inexperience that is the major difference, just as Freeza stated at the end of the Broly Movie. Completed Cell-Max, with his brain installed (Mr.Perfect-Cell-Max) AT THE TIME of the Superhero movie would have been able to beat the CURRENTLY inexperienced and not-fully trained Broly. If Broly had the experience, was trained, had full control over his Legendary Super Saiyan transformation, I'm certain he would have crushed a completed Cell-Max, possibly even easier than SSJ2 Gohan did to the first Perfect Cell."
The only reason one can argue that Broly is weaker than other main characters at the moment is that he hasn't had any time to train (comparatively). Once Broly learns how to access his full power at will, I have no doubt he will rocket past everyone else. Because if he doesn't, it questions why they ever bothered to reboot him into cannon, and effectively making him, if not a full good-guy, then at least a neutral-party ally that casts a massive power shadow over the rest of the series.
Great video Masako, I really think the final image you showed is a great scale between the characters. I don't know how into powerscaling you are, if at all, and I have my own opinions, but generally I think that's a pretty accurate scale to show to anyone who is confused or wondering who is the strongest.
My manga ranking:
1) Beerus, 2) Black Frieza, 3-4) Beast Gohan and Super Hero era Broly, 5-8) Cell Max, Super Hero era Goku and Vegeta, Orange Piccolo, 9) Gas, 10) Granola, 11) Moro, 12) Merus, 13) Jiren (Edit: 14 Belmod).
My anime ranking (less confident with Super Hero era characters):
1-2) Beast Gohan and Super Hero era Broly, 3-9) MUI Goku, Gogeta Blue, Limit Broken Jiren, Cell Max, Orange Piccolo, Super Hero era Goku and Vegeta, 10) the Gods of Destruction, 11) Blue Evolution level, 12) Blue level. I'd put the Gammas at either 11 or 12.
I always interpreted that Jiren is the strongest in terms of his base power and he doesn't have much of a boost in terms of power ups
But the brolly movie dashed that theory real quick
Because if it was a measure of base power at least it would be understood that in base form Jiren stands above everyone but as soon as transformations and powerups happen the multipliers begin to overshadow him
Thanks! Love these scale videos! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Merged Zamasu: i was meant to be bodied by 2 ssj blues
The writers that aren’t Toriyama: nah, imma do my own thing
I'm still thoroughly convinced that with all these new forms the manga is very heavily leaning towards the answer of "they're all the strongest in their own way." Goku, Vegeta, (probably) Broly, Piccolo, Gohan, (probably) Goten and Trunks all have unique forms which have their own strengths, weaknesses, origins, and connections to their personalities or character backgrounds. With the exception of Broly, and the younger half saiyans, they all seem to be roughly as powerful as each other, and I wouldn't be surprised that in a fight they could all win against one another in various battle conditions, and if they had the right battle strategy. In short, while I realize that a lot of people want a definitive answer and a clear single winner, I think that the entire question will become moot at some point in the near future in the manga.
i hope goten and trunks get something, ssj1 just ain't gonna cut it anymore. if they gave them ssg but said it was really strong because they were hybrids i wouldn't mind, don't even need to give them blue but obviously ssg is basically just a stepping stone to blue at this point so whatever 😮💨
The strongest is Zeno but if we exclude gods and angels and only look at mortals I'd say the strongest currently is Frieza
pretty obvious
I always just assumed that SSG Goku being able to measure up to 70% power Beerus was true, AT THAT TIME. I think the point of the Saiyans being introduced into Beerus' life is that he finally has a reason to train again. So through every arc of DBS, Beerus has been doing GoD level training to stay ahead of them. So by the logic I'm going by, MUI Goku and Ego Vegeta have surpassed Battle of Gods Beerus by massive amounts, but Beerus manages to stay ahead of them through his own training off screen.
Also, "full power Beerus" might not take into account any transformation potential he may have. Perhaps he has is own form of Ultra Ego that sends his potential even further beyond what he has displayed up until now. Even more interesting, Whis has stated that Beerus has done ultra instinct training but has yet to master it himself. Maybe some day Beerus could debut a wholly unique transformation that blends Ego and Instinct into his own unique form that surpasses what both Goku and Vegeta can do.
You also always have to consider the "rock, paper, scissors" match-ups when directly comparing characters. Jiren's claim to power might just be due to how his Ultra Instinct works. The Destroyers may still technically be more powerful than him - but that won't let them win a fight if they can't land a hit on him. Same goes for the Angels, whose "strength" mainly comes from their reality warping powers, not their physical prowess.
jiren doesn't have ultra instinct
My prediction with how the power scale ladder has been going: After they have a multiversal arc where they defeat the strongest mortal in the multiverse and then when the erased universes from a looooong time ago come back somehow, probably super dragon balls, they'll have to defeat the G.O.D.s from them. After that, I think they'll finally be on the same power scale as Beerus and make him start taking them seriously as G.O.D. candidates
I think people take the "Cell Max may have given Goku and Vegeta trouble" line a bit too literally. He was going on a rampage and could have easily gotten out of hand by just destroying the Earth like Freeza did when he rage quit. They probably would have just had issues like they did in the film where they needed to keep him somewhat still so they could attack the weak point. Which is probably what Piccolo meant by the "give them trouble" line.
Nah the current chapter shows Goku going straight to Mastered UI before fighting Beast Gohan, if he thought for a second he was stronger he'd do the transformation ladder from ssj he always does. Beast Gohan is stronger than Getes and Goku and Piccolo is on par with the two. Remember Piccolo was stronger than everyone for a minute there in the android saga from his power up re-fusing with Kami. Namekians are also a species with incredible potential for power and Piccolo never had his potential unlocked before Super Hero. If it helps to ease your frustration just keep in mind Vegeta and Goku never had their potential unlocked either but are on par with Piccolo (who has never stopped training in his life, was almost as strong as Goku when Piccolo was less than 5 years old and got his potential unlocked by the freakin dragonballs which for him being a Namekian, so home field advantage, who's 1/3rd dragon clan from fusing with Kami it is probably more potent than the Elder Kai's ritual would be for him) and the two are only one level below Gohan's power, who was stronger than everyone until Goku and Vegeta unlocked ssj 2 post-Cell games. If Goku and Vegeta had their potential unlocked and fused I'd bet they'd be stronger than Beerus!
Current manga chapter disproves that.
@@CerealExperimentsMizukiNot at all, i mean Beast Gohan was crearly stronger than Cell Max and if Gohan now its on par o maybe stronger then his dad that means Goku mui and Vegeta ue > Cell Max while Piccolo organge was truly not stronger than Cell Max so Piccolo can be near but not on par and if Gohan was able to quickly beat Cell so also Goku or Vegeta and Im not consider them toghether that would be insane
@@hatsusama3296 please learn proper spelling and grammar before you continue to argue on RUclips, your comment is next to incomprehensible.
So Beerus Jiren and Goku have become a game of rock paper scissors...
Alive characters-(universe 7) with extras in () for reference, excluding gods :-
1. Freiza
2. Gohan
(Gas)extra
3. Goku
4. Vegeta
5. Granolah
(Moro) extra
6. Broly
(Cell max somewhere here) extra
(Jiren) extra
7. Piccolo
(Toppo)extra
8. Gamma 1
(Dyspo)extra
9. Goten and Trunks
10. Majin Boo
I love how you mentioned Stan Lee’s (R.I.P.) quote because it’s so true
I kinda like the Gohan is at least on par with MUI Goku (from what we’ve seen) and that Orange Piccolo is close in power to Cell Max (and super duper buff)
i think about that quote a lot
I think the easiest and most Comedic solution they could give to Beerus power level would be to say that Goku and Vegeta have already surpassed where Beerus was during the battle of God ark, but Beerus is still ahead because he's been secretly training when no one is around
im hoping toyotaro tries to bring in an in-universe explanation as to why the beerus goalpost keeps moving, possibly via explaining that he's been training in secret. I mean, he was scared hard by SSJBKKx10, and now goku has UI, vegeta has UE, and the balance of mortals and god's power becoming more even, i'd imagine even beerus would see the writing on the wall and would realize he has to train HARD
If we consider that Toppo accessing God of Destruction Ki and using it as a power boost is something every God of Destruction can do, it means that Beerus still has a completely unknown power multiplier in his back pocket that would also give him effective immunity to Ki attacks and infuse every attack he does with Hakai.
All of the others at their full power might very well be as strong or stronger than Beerus, God of Destruction(Job title), but still vastly beneath God of Destruction Beerus
I would prefer the Manga's method of power scaling over the anime's. It's way more consistent and the forms have more development.
Finally, someone that believes Orange Piccolo can be as strong as the ultra forms.
he straight up is. His form's promotional material says he is a match for Goku
@@sigmamaverick9215 yeah he straight up said that
People have been agreeing with that ever since it was stated that he surpasses thr Ultra forms, you rarely ever see anybody try to argue against that and when they do, their arguments always fall flat because it's not supported by anything, anywhere.
Piccolo deserves it after being sidelined for so long.
I hate it. I mean is good to see Piccolo back but not like this.
So if Piccolo would have make that wish after seeing the power of Bills and SSJ God. Piccolo literally could eliminate Golden Frieza and save the destruction of earth, defeat Black and save original Future Trunks timeline, eliminate all the warriors of the tournament of power including Kale, Hit, Toppo and Jiren by himself, Piccolo could defeat Broly and Moro when they out his first foot on Earth. The fact the only with a simple wish at the right time he could literally handle all DB by his own Is a total BS.
And now he is God level, stupid Granola and Gas they talked with the wrong Dragon, Shenlong can give you God/Ángel like powers without risking your years of life.
Piccolo was really the best friend for literally doing nothing during five sagas only for Goku and Vegeta have some protagonism.
I've been arguing with other Dragon Ball fans online about how power levels aren't accurate for so long. Most still think the only reason scouters weren't accurate is that the heroes were hiding their power. But no, even when going all out, the heroes ki still spikes upwards.
In super the powers have stopped growing anywhere near as much as they used to. A lot of fans base their ideas about power growth from the namek saga, which was absolutely absurd. But again, the Namek saga was also operating off inaccurate information.
I believe Beerus and Quitela are the ones who lasted the longest in the battle Royale. Up until the grand priest stepped in and stopped them.
You believe what was directly shown in the manga?? What an incredible feat, nobody has ever done that before!!
Freeza should be Beerus' successor.
It is important to note that they say Broly couldn't defeat cell max /IF/ he was fully completed, which he was not.
Bro what the hell RUclips?! This was NOT in my sub feed. I had to search up the channel to find the video.
The only thing I don't want to see in Dragon Ball is Goku, Vegeta, Frieza or whoever defeat Beerus. Because the guy has trained for thousands of years, he is one of, if not the strongest GoD, so Goku and others defeat him, I'm going to be upset, because their level was never close when they met, and I still don't feel even close to them being at the level of power, experience and techniques that Beerus has... For me, they don't have to defeat Beerus at the end of the manga, maybe just have a more intense fight, but nothing that will make Beerus close to losing, because that would disrespect Beerus' thousands of years of training and experience.
...And also, come on, the dragon ball thing is about training and overcoming yourself, if they beat Beerus in the end, well, then it will be a generic anime that the person only wins because they are the protagonist and because it doesn't show That training and experience makes a difference.
I needed to vent about this... I've been having this anguish for years... heheheheh thanks 😋😊😄
IMo a lot of the confusion probably comes to both the anime and manga from the get go retcon’d the line about Beerus using 70% of his power in the final attack in the BoG movie. Also it doesn’t help that both the anime and manga basically had cliff notes for what needs to happen, so there being inconsistencies with power scaling makes sense. Especially with the manga doing the tournament of power after the anime’s conclusion.
Once the DBS anime returns, we’ll see just how close the anime will follow the manga or not, seeing as it actually has something to go off of now instead of just cliff notes.
4:35 I'd argue the-latter are stronger solely on the fact that they have control over their power, while Broly can output more raw power, it would be everywhere, unfocused, and most of it proving useless in a fight, or even an arm wrestling match.
_Long winded, confused, analogy incomming:_
Like someone constantly pouring a giant water-cooler bottle of water into a shot glass, only a tiny amount is actually in the glass and the rest ends up all over the floor. The glass is Broly's actual controllable amount of power, and the bottle is his reserves, Goku and Vegeta while would struggle to keep dry if someone chucked the entire bottle at them like a maniac, could easily topple Broly when he carefully tries to pour the shot glass of actual controllable power on them, meanwhile the two fighting pros would have fine tuned precision water guns at this stage of their skill and technique despite having only a gallon jug each, they can actually aim...
That was the weirdest analogy I've ever made, just ignore it.
Eventually, the strongest will be Goku as long as age doesn't limit his absolute potential because of Bardock's wish. It is in Goku's desire to get stronger and to fight strong fighter, so Bardock's wish ( wishing Goku to achieve everything he aims for) will help him to be the strongest. With that being said, Vegeta is the strongest :)
Black Frieza is obviously the strongest mortal at the moment. Whether he's stronger than Beerus or not we'll have to see. Probably not but honestly he should be.
feel whis/the angels(also tori-bot.:3) are the strongest with the g.o.d's following & really love to see more of them actually get into action.
tbh outside the original/wrathful/god feel a majority of the heroes transformations are unearned(actually like gohan's in super hero more/the z fighters fighting getting hits on cell max compared to cell being a fight goku/the z fighters ganging up on him would've won.) and like super broly's transformation having weight where with jiren it was broken in a antagonist just there to be an antagonist(when tbh it was goku.)/toppo being a better character and in frieza's case he's a royal space brat that will never change deep down while i definitely think he'll be actually close to the forms enough to marathon them instead of being a sprinter with a leaky engine it's going to end with him dying into his hell tree again.
prefer the saiyans never reach beerus & definitely whis power and instead have uub(with how he has the potential to use some of kid buu's moves being a reincarnation/having a supreme kai's power.) be trained to be the next g.o.d of destruction.
Besides angels, Beerus is the strongest and if there is any sense of reason in DB he'll always be.
He's smth between 200 million and 1 billion y o(!). If he spent 90% of his time with sleeping, 5% with eating, 4% with annoying whis and just 1% with destruction/training/fighting, this will translate to 10 million years!
Imagine living for 100 time for 100 years, where you hit the bars/fight NON STOP. This 0,1% Beerus did.
Would be no suprise if he has like 100 stackable transformations and 1000s of techniques we don't know of..
It goes: GP >>> Angels >>> Beerus > GoDs >>>>>>>..>>> Mortals
RIP Toriyama
If frieza was in the time chamber he found when the wishes of strength were made, (1) maybe the dragon couldn't take his power into account as he couldn't be sensed from within the time chamber, or (2) because time was dilated, granola got made stronger than frieza was at that moment, but as he was still in the chamber training, frieza was able to work past the gap n surpass him as the strongest again.
I won't say this is the "definitive" ranking, but basing this off of both the anime (movies included) / manga continuities, I believe it goes like this: ( This also includes LIVING characters, so Granolah, Moro, etc. doesn't apply here, as well as any characters which new strength feats are speculated, such as jiren. )
☝Freeza ( Three years before Chapter 103, or the Granolah arc, Frieza trains in an ambiguous ROSAT on a planet he conquered for ten years. This gives Frieza the strength to effortlessly take out Gas whose strength surpassed anything he's had before, as well as an Ultra Instinct 'Sign' Goku and Ultra Ego Vegeta in one hit.🤯)
✌ Son Gohan ( While Gohan may still be less experienced than Goku, the strength required to knock Goku out of Ultra Instinct in one hit while he's on guard is an insane feat. This feat is even greater when you realize that in order to land this blow in the first place, Gohan had to out-speed Goku in his Ultra Instinct State.👀)
👌 Son Goku ( Gohan may be stronger than Goku, but Goku's strength is still up there a little behind Gohan with him knocking him back many times throughout the fight, as well as the many speed feats presented even *after* Gohan powers up during the battle. 💪 )
4. Bejita ( Vegeta may not have shown everything he has to offer against the stars of Chapter 103, being Goku and Gohan, he still shows his dominance against this even stronger Broly. Taking a direct blow to the forehead by Broly in his base state with no major damage done, as well as overwhelming Broly in a Super Saiyan State. )
5. Burori ( The first fight with Vegeta did show Broly slowly start adapting to base, and even Super Saiyan Vegeta. However, a feat that is notable to mention is Broly shocking the rest of the saiyans with his controlled Super Saiyan state, even Gohan in his Beast state was shocked by his level of power. )
6. Pikkoro ( While the statements of Piccolo being on par with Goku and Vegeta's level of power are slightly outdated, especially considering these feats were for the DBSSH MOVIE and not the arc, I do still think he is up there in terms of power. I just arguably think Broly has the better feats, as I stated previously. )
7. Merus ( The angel in training was revived by the end of the Moro arc, and while his angel powers are no longer with him, he does still presumably have Ultra Instinct. At least the fundamentals of it sort of like Muten Roshi has done in the T.O.P prior. Not to mention without his angel abilities in use, he speed blitzed Goku and Vegeta at the beginning of the Moro arc, and successfully one-tapped them. )
8. Gamma 1 ( This superhero was able to push Gohan into his Ultimate form and still put up a good enough fight against the former Great Saiyaman, however, being stated to be Super Saiyan Blue level by many, he would obviously be weaker than Piccolo in his Orange state, meaning he wouldn't really be able to do much past Merus level of power. Still, a great strategist and fighter who deserves this spot on the ranking. )
9. Boo ( In the Moro arc of DBS, Buu obtained a huge strength boost after unlocking past memories of Moro, overwhelming Moro unlike Goku and Vegeta at the time who struggled at the planet-eaters magics. Buu having his many assortment of wacky abilities as well, I believe his power is still one to be reckoned with, and one not to be forgotten )
10. Jiren ( His use of his power still being used to improve Goku and Vegeta's fighting capabilities long after the T.O.P really prove just how much of an intelligent man Jiren truly was, and in the manga he proved to not just compete with Ultra Instinct Goku, but downright beat him in the transformation/technique after simply...powering up past it. Truly deserving of the title, "The mortal who surpassed his God of Destruction" )
power level dictates strength and maybe ability; scouters never accounted for techniques training tactics etc. Overwhelming power levels will dwarf everything, but guile and tactics can overcome. Perfect example - the Cholate Trojan Horse defeating a version Buu.
hey, Maseko I don't know if anyone else suggested this but what if Raditz was turned into an android by Dr. Gero after his fight with Goku?
He'd effortlessly one shot Goku, Vegeta and Freeza and become Immortal and rule over the entire Universe.
"They can’t keep changing Beerus’s power forever." They shouldn’t have done it in the first place. Not without revealing he’s been training so Goku and the others couldn’t reach him yet.
"The lines from the anime can be disregarded." No. (Unless I misunderstood) Not any more than the manga. Like I said, they shouldn’t be able to retcon a character’s power how many times they want, so what was said before in each versions should be taken into account or we just throw away all coherence.
Hey buddy, sorry to break it to you, but the writers have a perfectly valid in character out for the inconsistent % of power stated. Ya know what would happen if a character in universe asked him what the deal is with that? He'd just admit he lied to keep Goku motivated to get stronger, which is exactly what having Monaca around was about. Unfortunately, the TTT aint taking the series as seriously as you are and just do what sounds cool. Case and point xeno allowing people to break rules in T.O.P. like using items literally just because it's cool looking, THAT is Dragonball now that is what it is at its core, that is what the in universe controller of everything and the real world owners of the IP want
@@silasstryder I see your point but I stand by mine, respectfully. Although, the part where "Beerus lied" doesn't work when we're taking reactions of him where he isn't interacting with Goku or Vegeta and is still impressed or even shocked by what they are doing, like when he was shocked and even annoyed that Goku pulled off UI before him. And as for the rest, I just like stories to have consistencies with themselves or we lose quite a bit, wether it is through power scaling, or other types of retcons (such as Bardock, for example). You're free to think that way, the way I see it, inconsistencies can go from being a minor flaw to a big problem, and this problem has been increasingly apparent with Dragon Ball, even if there is still quality work being produced and even if I still enjoy it. There are still things we can criticize about it.
@@silasstryder That doesnt work as we know for a fact he was fighting 100% seriously in the battle royale, the grand priest ordered them to try to en-d each other, and that the last one that survives gets a reward. There is zero reason for beerus to hold back then when he is allowed to en-d each other, is told to en-d them, gets a reward if he survives and wins, and is getting brutally damaged during the whole fight. All of this is proof that no there is no "lol i held back", that would contradict whats literally happening on the page.
Cell max in the manga is also underatted considering he was weakened and had no brain but still held his own in a beam struggle with beast gohan and needed goten and trunks to distract him for gohan to win the beam struggle. Which would actually make cell max stronger then beast gohan.
Right? Made me wish the manga came out first and the movie built off of that because the movie in my head reading that chapter was a lot better than the actual movie
@@silasstryder I mean toyo needed to switch up his scaling since he made goku and vegeta stronger then broly by end of moro arc and the movie/anime verse has goku and vegeta still weaker then broly.
@@edwardgoliath5295 And by default it would mean Cell Max is stronger than Current Ultra Instinct Goku
A hard pill to swallow for some people ik
@@BeastXIS Facts brother, glad im not the only one who sees that considering how nerfed cell max was lol. If cell max had his brain for 100% completion it maybe would've needed ui,ue,beast and orange team up or fusion again lol.
@@edwardgoliath5295 This just shows how underrated Orange Piccolo is since he kept up with Cell Max to an extent, damaged him with his mouth blast (even sent him flying with it in the manga) and restrained him while injured himself so Gohan can deliver the final blow
Orange Piccolo is very strong
The way I rationalize Beerus is that UI Goku snd UE Vegeta and I guess Beast Gohan can match Beerus.... in base.
If Beerus were to use his incomplete UI or even more his undoubted fully mastered UE well... the Beerus mountain is pretty high indeed.
No its just a retcon, in the battle royale he was fighting to the death with the other gods of destruction. That is what the grand priest told all the gods of destructions to do, and we see beerus badly damaged at the end, so there is ZERO indication that he was holding back in the battle royale, it simply is just a retcon that he is still somehow stronger than MUI goku and UE vegeta
@thevipez8740 nah. They complained the GoDs were too fast to see. MUI Goku and Jiren weren't.
@@specialnewb9821 Thats just a overlooked poorly thought out detail by toyotaro, as idk if you forgot, but jiren is STATED to be stronger than belmod
Ultra instinct kaioken x100 Tien when?
Krillin could definitely do that.
@@Center-For-I.E.D.MismanagementBut Potential Unleashed eddition.
You made a point about Beerus's age, but........aren't dinosaurs still around in both the manga and anime?
Beerus thought he wiped out the dinosaurs but in reality he didn't, but that still give us an idea how old Beeurs is, or at least how long he's been a destroyer.
@@collinleivas9605 do you happen to have the panel?
Bro turn your notifications back on I’m not tryna miss a video.
8:33 Why are you just being biased with this? Jin never said he could "obliterate" other destroyers if they were hit by his ki blast, all he said was "That was a close one" it means he would have probably been heavily damaged but its never stated that the blast would "obliterate" them. Also you just completely ignore in the previous panel when goku is worried about the goods of destructions, Whis says that, nah he is SURE they are fine. Clearly adding credence that they werent going to be completely obliterated by one blast duh
Also you are just extremely BIASED here as if you want to bring up that, why not bring up when Belmod traps all the gods at once and they are worried that belmod might actually end them all, why are you ignoring this?
Also another note too, Liquirs blas gave a WAY bigger explosion and was given way more emphasis compared to beeruses ki blast, yet belmod tanked it completely and was 100% fine.
So all the evidence points to belmod not being a weakling and actually being comparable to beerus, yet you want to use his age as your central argument for why he is weaker? Is this a joke? Buu is apparently stronger than goku and vegeta by that logic then
Just wondering how Uub will factor into all this when he becomes a major player
Broly is the benchmark for perfect cell max potential power measuring so it’s safe to say full power Broly legendary super saiyan is at least equal to or greater than beast gohan
So the hierarchy goes
Angels and above them
Meerus original power
Beerus = vegito/gogeta = quitela
(Cell revived)
Super perfect cell Max = black frieza
Perfect Cell Max
Broly
Gohan beast
Cell Max
Vegeta
Goku = Arale
Gas
Granola
Moro
Orange piccolo
Jiren
Belmod
Rest of the gods of destruction
Toppo god
Kefla
Slim buu
Hit
New androids
Uub
Aniraza
Kale
Does no one here think Broly didn't improve since his movie? I think hes on the cusp of flattening Goku and Vegeta's level in short order. Seriously, the way hes being used in the story is hinting at a huge payoff.
We all know who really is the strongest, it’s either Mr popo or Toribot, but since Toribot can write off popo I’d lean on Toribot.
If belmod was GoD for 200k years, how was he on the force at the same time as jiren and toppo?
That armrestling match happened between beerus and quintella not beerus and Belmont
I kind of power scale beerus to everyone else similar to magnitude. If super saiyan god is a 6 and beerus is a 10 hes still leagues ahead of ssg and thatd track withe everything. Now what i want in the manga going forward is more strategy and abilities. UI has perfect evasion but others need to have somethibg or else theres not much difference between say gohan beast and super saiyan beyond just power
Bro that 6 and 10 scale is completely and utterly worthless and unusable for more then that specific movie. In ROF Goku would've surpassed Berrus by many times just after unlocking SSJB.
I cannot buy the fact of cell max being MUI or UE level when he was getting damaged or at least phased by fodder characters.
Tien if he did five more pushups
At that point does having advantage of a 1,000,000 power points more than you opponents stop being a making difference in a fight? It appears that the Gammas could read Gohan's power level and judge it to their abilities.
The proportional difference is more important.
Between powers that are in the 100million range, a 1 million difference factors as a 1% margin.
Meanwhile, a power level of 4000 (Nappa) can easily eclipse a power level of 1200 (Raditz)
You know it's dumb but it fits perfectly for all these videos lately but what if Ox king trained with the Z fighters. I know it sounds ridiculous but hey we already have yajirobe so why not make it an April what if cause then we can do some FUNNY tropes that would fit with this perfectly. Just saying.😅
Base Broly is undeniably weaker than Goku & Vegeta, but full power Broly is a different animal
Masako. Will you turn on notofications again soon?
??
trouble is.. and hear me out its all to do with the movie coming out before granola ended, when gohan piccolo said "even dad and vegeta would struggle against cell max". this is based on what they know of there power. and from what we seen in manga last time gohan piccolo saw goku vegeta was morro arc. after that they both went to train on beerus did granola arc then went straight back. so gohan and piccolo do not know about ultra ego and true ultra instinct or black frieza.. so
11:14 I agree with the scale you came up with except I believe goku and vegeta are stronger than Granolah since Goku and Vegeta by the end of the fight could actually fight and harm Gas consistently with TUI and UE even when Gas started becoming a zombie but after a certain point the only effective way Granolah could contribute was by using his life force to do damage. Also Cell Max isn't stated to be stronger than broly, the statement you showed at 2:05 says "If Cell Max had been completed according to plan, he would have been a superhuman who even Broly couldn't defeat, but since he was forcibly activated, he became an uncontrollable monster." Now to me and many others who powerscale this statement outright confirms or heavily implies that since Cell Max wasn't completed he's weaker than Broly or at the very least just about as strong but not stronger and Orange Piccolo with help from other characters still lost to this incomplete Cell Max. So how I would rearrange the board is Cell Max slightly below or at the same spot broly and Jiren are, put Piccolo directly below Cell Max, Put Goku and vegeta above Granolah but still below Gas when he started becoming a Zombie and everyone else is fine. That's how I would scale them but if you don't agree that's perfectly fine keeping track of this is confusing which why so many are hype to see if gohan or goku wins.
Maasako your bias is showing quite a lot in the video when you are just disregarding all the statements made about Jirens power relating to the gods of destruction, why are you just ignoring them because its inconvenient for your biased narrative? Belmod should at the very least be comparable to beerus, absolutely everything in the anime continuity, and in the manga continuity supports this. So when jiren is then stated to be stronger than belmod on numerous occasions, and MUI goku both in the anime and manga far surpassing this jiren, it is then OBJECTIVELY a massive retcon for Beerus to somehow be several tiers above Goku and Vegeta. Yet you write it off as being logical when its obviously a retcon
So, as of now, among Goku, Goha, Piccolo and Vegeta.... Goku is the weakest?
Man, those are weird times
Hello, i have a question, who Design and create kefla, i know the story of toei products creating kale and toriyama sensei creating caulifla to make a pair character, but who make kefla. Toei team or Akira toriyama.
The f1 guy!!!!!
I like power scaling, but in reality.. I think dragonball should move away from PURE POWER.
And insted go with skills, mastery and knowledge. Wich the tournament of power really came close to getting right.
The last time this came into play succesfully was during the Cell Saga. Where "Buff Trunks" could damage perfect cell sure, but Cell points out: "You are too slow... and you can hit me all you like but 0 damage is 0 damage and I can wear you out." (Heavy paraphrazing)
This is what I think true evolution of Dragonball lays. Specially with now everyone getting their own transformations.
Goku Ultra Instinct... going fully on instinct and not being in battle but going with the flow. Able to dodge things fast and countering it near perfectly. (With the weakness being you are mostly reactionary and flawed in a way that you could be manipulated into taking hits.)
Vegeta Ultra Ego... Being fully in the fight and the more damage and pain you gain, the more you will be to put out against your oppenent. (Basically Tank damage, hit harder. A perfect counterbalance to Ultra Instinct since now it becomes: "The longer the fight goes on, the more goku has to dodge but if Vegeta lands a blow.. Goku WILL go down. So it's either Goku has to take himself 100% out of the fight to win.. or risk being hit. Considering the broly movie shows us an outcome. I believe Goku would lose cause he wishes to stay fully in this epic battle and thus Vegeta will land the winning blow)
Orange Picollo... Big, strong, stretch and can take several hits. I see this as a big bruiser type who isn't as fast but compensates it by being more unpredictable with the namekian talents.
Super Namekian Grade 2 sorta say.. but with a body to compensate for the weakness of speed. (This one is simple, big target, means easy to hit regardless of stretchy limbs.)
Gohan BEAST... Controlled Fury is what I call this. A combination of Knowledge and Rage. Calm but overbearing. A chaotic form who is both unpredictable and cunning.
I can't say too much of this form since it had the least time in the movie and manga.. but this is defintally a form ment to counteract BROLY'S LEGENDARY FORM more then to deal with Ultra instinct. (Weakness being the mental state of Gohan, I am not sure but I think this form might be taking a toll on Gohan;s psyche. Or atleast that would be cool.. since he has to be super angry but super smart at the same time. And emotions and logic do not mix well. So it's either mental strain OR the fact you could bait Gohan into unbalancing the form?)
Broly Legendar Super Saiyan... A form that keeps adapting to the oppenent but puts the the user into a beserker state. Yea this one is easy to explain how to beat... overpower before it can adapt OR out smart it. It's basically Ultra Ego in a way, but with a bigger drawback.
Black Freeza... Can't say anything about this one, but considering Golden Freeza is about perfect ki manipulation that could manipulate the Ki of the gods (though a weak one).
I think Black Freeza ain't just black to be the counter to Ultra Instinct.. I think Freeza took cues of the return of a certain Ram Man and was like: "What if I could absorb Ki like a black hole?"
But thats speculation... this one I cannot say anything about.. but it's been a while since we had a powerful ki blast absorber like the androids.
Or maybe black freeza is gonna be more about Ki redirection all together. Manipulate Ki to strike it's foe... that seems perfect freeza to me.
also wish all you want or train all you want, xeno erased an alt time line and threatened to erase other universes - the main counter is that the Super Dragon Balls countered that...but did they? or did xeno not counter the tournament results
At this level if anyone surpassed beerus Toriyama's writing is really going to be back in a corner then he would have to make the villains more powerful reaching angels' levels are surpassing it then it just going to get stupid at this point and DB will just turn into a fan manga with unbalanced power scaling like demon bluma out of nowhere more powerful than the grand priest Toriyama's first problems was ss god didn't get no screen time but no he went straight to ss blue then ultra instinct then you had people that wanted Ui Goku to be unbeatable then what is the point of the fights then if goku going to pull a whis on all his emeries' one shot ko then some fans wanted goku to be off stage 4 awhile let be honest without goku db is not going to be the same who wants to watch someone like Krillin and yamcha and to make those guys useful Toriyama's would have to make them super strong by doing that he would have to make all the z fighters stronger which means the next villain and beyond would have to be pretty much op broken to take on all the z fighters and most DB fan don't want a weaker are nerf battle either
I thibk this list is not accurate since the last time piccolo saw goku and vegeta was in the moro arc so his assesment of their strengh in comparisson to cell max would be behind their evolution since then
The eternal question for any & all Dragonball fans 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
also beerus has too many freiza traits; you can claim whatever percentages you want but whether its true is up in the air
Yeah... I think you've been shadow banned. I didn't get any notifications today nor Tuesday... and there was no indication of a new video in my sub-box unless I went to your channel directly.
I'm experimenting on purpose. Shorts have hindered reach potentially so letting people find the video is worth trying
It showed up on my home feed
I got a notification in my box, you've just got a skill issue.
are you by chance LawVS ? if not you are twins.
yeah I thought I've seen him somewhere. They really look alike!
Before watching the video
Its Zeno cause Zeno might even be stronger than Beerus !
Lol Zeno,Grand Priest, and Arale sit at the very top of dragon ball that’s all you have to know
Im so done with db power scaling its one of the worst aspects nowadays tbh db was about martial arts and techniques, z was about progression and super/manga/movies is about bs ass pulls
vegeta is only stronger than goku in base and its like slightly if even that in transition wise goku is way ahead not only cuz hes had his ui for longer but he also can control it at will
I really don't care about the son ve father thing. No matter who wins clowns are gonna say the loser was nerf.
What if the clowns got nerfed mentally and that's why their saying that regardless of who wins?
Frieza >>> Gohan = Goku = Vegeta > Orange Piccolo > Current Broly ( unable to go SSJ).
wow!
3 views in 3 minutes? masako really fell off fr, such a shame.
I deliberately turned off notifications to run a test.
@@MasakoXand I passed, now what's my reward??
Hit is stronger then vegeta gas gran frieza and broly cell max and gohan and piccolo
Terrible bait.
@CerealExperimentsMizuki it's not bait and if you think that then by means go watch dragon ball
@@keithcole8536 Hit is from thr anime and manga series Dragon Ball Super which is separate from the Dragon Ball manga even if it's a direct continuation. Also there's no evidence for Hit surpassing True Ultra Instinct Goku or Gohan Beast as he lost to suppressed Jiren in the T.O.P. even using the Time Cage and Gohan Beast has surpassed everything and everyone except for Freeza Black, and that includes Jiren.
It goes Black Freeza>Gohan Beast>Orange Piccolo>Gas>True Ultra Instinct Goku>Ultra Ego Vegeta>Granolah>SJB Gogeta>Full Power SSJ Broly>Jiren and then Hit. That's if you don't count Kefla who's was drastically stronger than Hit and was able to contend with Omen grade 2 which far surpassed the previous SSJB Goku who was a match for Hit.
Im sorry but gohan is nowhere nere black frieza is, hes on par with MUI and UE. If gohan was that much stronger than goku then their sparing match would've been already over.
🤘
I personally don't think cell max was stronger than gronolah or gas. It just doesn't make sense.
I highly doubt Beast Gohan is stronger than MUI Goku. It could be on par, but you put him a good bit above.
اللغة العربية راقم واحد
Masako, you’re truly brave for insinuating that Orange Piccolo is Ultra tier because a LOT of people would strongly disagree with you lol.
It's a very common and widely accepted thing since it was stated in every form of material that exists for that movie.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki We must be looking at different fandoms then. Because from what I’VE seen, the thought of OP being Ultra tier has been rejected by like 90% of the fanbase.
Don’t get me wrong, if for one agree with the notion of Piccolo being that strong. I’m just saying I’ve seen nearly everyone else try and reject that statement.
@@selfloathinggivesmelife7810 damn, I've seen thr opposite, most people I know, know that Piccolo is Ultra tier and beyond, only a few try and fail to argue otherwise using headcannon that goes against what was directly stated, shown and promoted.
Basically what Stan Lee said about Marvel and versus battles. It all comes down to what the writers wants to happen
watch?v=L4_zFYnnn2Y