I think that all bikes should come with an adjustable headset and rear suspension flip chip like the Stumpjumper Evo and Fuel EX so that you can tune your ride. In my experience, 77* STA and 65* HTA is the trailbike sweet spot.
There is a sweet spot for everyone. Slack, steep, or somewhere in the middle. I’m glad I went with my gut on the new bike. So far it’s perfect for where I ride.
Great video!!!!! Do what you got to do to make your bike fit you!!! I have watch your past videos about suspension set up and found it extremely helpful. I run 95-100 psi in my DVO Diamond fork on my Fezzari Delano Peak and people think I'm nuts but it fits my riding so who cares. Keep doing what your doing Bros!!!!!
100% agree. That said, am also 5'11" and recently purchased a Fezzari La Sal Peak size large. It fits me and my preferences perfectly. I feel no need to mess with the geo. I was happily surprised to find that the La Sal handles the tight switchbacks of the northern Utah trails I ride better than my short travel 2019 Stumpjumper.
Great video guys. I loved hearing Robs thoughts on how and why he set the bike up the way he did. The riding in the clips was awesome. All the best to you guys and your followers for 2023.
Yes gentleman. I own a Delano Peak, 65*_77.5* Stock. I own a Wasatch Peak hardtail 27.5+, 68*_75*,upgraded BB to SRAM DUB and GX Crankset 32T_165, from the Power Spline/SX, 32T_170. Both medium frames. Yes the Delano is a 29er too, so it's longer than my hardtail . . . by almost 4". FOUR INCHES!!!!! Not surprising that I prefer the hardtail, as most trails here are tight, space conscious builds originally made for 26" woodland creatures. BUT, the Delano can be grunted around those and makes the more open/downhill trails it's bitch. A little shorter front end would probably be a good compromise, though. 🤔
Thanks Rich. We could all do with a bike mentor. Someone that has the years of riding and watching all levels of riders like yourselves. I love tinkering with my bike setup but a little insight from an experienced pal keeps me in the right area. Love your coaching sessions. Best bang of your bucks is time with a great bike coach.😊
He did exactly what I would expect given the geo numbers on the La Sal. The large isn't huge, but it's definitely a bit on the big side for desert tech. I'm also 5'10" and my happy place on reach is somewhere around 470mm and 1230-1250mm on wheelbase and it sounds like it is similar with Rob. I'm surprised Rich isn't running a medium, I would think a smaller bike would be preferred for the flowy trails that make up most of the Bentonville area.
Great Video. I really like how you've specified where you were riding (as I feel this influences what geo might be preferred) and what the changes did to improve the handling. I find most people just say that change "X" made the bike feel "way better". I like when you specify what the changes do to the handling on the trail - ie putting more weight on the front end.
Love this video, I ordered a Signal Peak in a Large last summer despite the XL being recommended. I’m 6’1” and do a lot of climbing so don’t want a stretched out bike as many of the newer designs have for riding in mellow foothills terrain.
Rob and Rich, Great advice 👍. I did not feel comfortable on my stumpy with the head spacer in the neutral position. The bike felt long and lunky. I turned the fork spacer to make the head angle steeper and it rode like a different bike. May have to try other adjustments mentioned in this video
Really good insight here guys. Rob, not many of us are as in tune with the bike feel as you are. Any suggestions for people to identify ways they might need to modify their fit/geo ?
Geo also depends on where you ride, going mostly down youll prefer the stretch but going mostly up you'll want to be more over the front wheel. So no perfect formula for everyone
I’m still on my Megatower V1 because the head tube angle and wheel base on the V2 is just too much . I don’t have ultra steep descents where I live so I prefer a 65% HTA and a smaller wheelbase for switchbacks and flatter trails.
Great content ! I thought 50mm stem was the longest stem for modern bikes these days. Also could you pls do a video of focusing on how bar roll affects riding characters ?
Yup. Head angles have gone too far for anyone not living in the mountains. If you only have 600 foot climbs (i live in ontario) there is no reason to have slack bikes…. Baring 1/2 a dozen trails in the province that are truly gnarly.
Mediums now are the longer than larges of 5-7 years ago. I’m 5’11 and stick mostly with mediums and a 50mm stem now. A large on most bikes is way too much wheelbase for me.
All my bikes are XL but my most recent bike (same Firebird), I sized down to L and love it. Fits great yet still maneuverable and not just a plow. Also lived in Ahwatukee 20 years ago and miss being able to ride on those trails every day (especially this time of year). Guessing my Firebird would do better than my old 2000 Giant XTC DS1 bombing down National, Javelina, or Sex Offender.
Hey Rich , great video as usual & love the banter between you and Rob as we say in Oz “ Taking the piss “ out of each other lol 😂 Quick question I’m the same height as you guys and M is a perfect fit for me despite what the factory fit calculations may say , now I understand Rob going from L to a M and putting a longer stem on to widen /lengthen the cockpit but a little confused about changing the headset and steeper angle making the wheelbase even shorter as I would’ve thought going to a M would have shortened the wheelbase enough?? 🤔 Keep up the great work guys 👍🤟
I bought a Canyon Spectral 29 (XL) but the fit wasn't quite right. I fit a 10mm longer stem, 20mm wider and taller bars and it feels so much better now!
Very interesting. I am 5'11" to 6', 210lbs, and i just got a la sal peak, and have only done one ride. It was in st George UT, on the Zen trail. I would say it didn't climb like a trail bike, but I was expecting that (and my skill or lack there of plays a factor). Also I'm not as experienced as you guys so any particularities or opinions I have I take with a grain of salt, but I agree for sure on the bottomless part. I felt great once I was going down and the bike felt just as playful and honestly better than the yt jeffsy I was coming from. I'm still working on suspension setting and $ince it was new I was nervous about scratching it trying to get up some tech lol I also bought mine because I want to keep doing park days, the occasional dh race, and Enduro races so maybe planned use case would also affect your frame size choice. I think the guys from 50 to 01 downsize cuz they are BMX guys and want a more flickable bike. So if Rob is really wanting something he can do techy climbs on, downsizing could make more sense. Your comments about the large when you were riding it at angelfire were interesting. I'll have to keep this in mind as I ride the bike more (winter in Utah so I'm limited), but I don't think I had any fit or feeling complaints on the down for the initial ride.
I'm the opposite...short legs/longer torso and had xs (5ft) the first 2 bikes, then got a s/m Emtb and with some adjustments, it fits perfect. Rode the xs 7k mtb and chose to sell and get a small mtb.
i bought my first ever bike during Covid and of course because of the shortage on parts, i had to just order mine based on my height, after riding it for over 2 years now. i notice that my bike (trek fuel ex) is really long. and since its my first bike i didnt know about geometry and all that, i just knew if i could reach the ground while the post was up was good enough. even then, i find myself basically tip toeing to keep balance and i feel like it shouldnt be that way. ive yet to go into a shop to figure out what size i am but i have a feeling im a Small and not a medium. im 5'8 by the way and i feel like my inseam is very short.
since you have rode both bikes whats your opinion on the transition spur vs the yt izzo uncaged 7 being that there bot 120/120 bikes. I primarily ride xc trails but like to ride gravity when i can. Thanks Axel
I’ve actually been considering an angle set for my large transition sentinel, even though I’m not in Arizona anymore turning in northern, Virginia, and Maryland can still be somewhat technical and there’s really no long sustained DH where you carry a boat ton of speed. What’s your thoughts?
Hey everyone, I wonder if this can be done to make 2 bikes feel similar. I own a revel rascal and I love how it fits me, I also own a orbea rise ebike, similar geo but they totally feel different. Any thoughts?
I picked up a 2022 YT Capra Medium. Im 5'9" right at the upper end of M, lower end of L on their size chart. Something just feels off on the bike though. I may try this to see if it helps
@@richdrewtherideseries definitely will. I find myself coming in contact with the rear tire on steap stuff often on the M capra. I know its a lot to do with incorrect form, but I have a L Intense trail bike that i very rarely come in contact with the rear tire on. Even on the same steep downs . Could this be because of the smaller size of the capra?
Should have titled the video "how to undo your bike's progressive geometry silliness". The longer, lower, and slacker thing is just marketing hype, with manufacturers following the herd. You can also get more responsive steering by chopping your bars to something less than 4 feet wide.
The main reason for it is stability. The slacker bikes are more forgiving which is what most people want. It has gotten a little silly though with 500mm reach size Ls on some bikes. Rich and Rob's riding technique is based around modern geo bikes and they're simply making personal preference changes rather than extreme sizing down to replicate old school geo. The riding coaches who preach extreme sizing down and insist that old school geo and riding technique is best are mostly banking on racing experience from 20 years ago
@@mrvwbug4423 That "racing experience from 20 years ago", is just a nice way of saying basic bike skills. I fully understand a lot of people want, and maybe need, forgiving bikes. And those bikes should be available to them, It's gone completely off the rails the last 4-5 years though. I personally like a longer reach. But someone on the east coast riding flat to severely undulating trails doesn't need a bike that is too forgiving for Rampage, or a 77 degree seat angle built for 3,000 foot climbs in the saddle.
I mean it’s a double wide+ width trail and everyone going up was hiking or hiking their bike. Hikers yield to bikes.. “blasting past” seems a big excessive. Riding past is more accurate, and riding a few feet away from everyone. Point this energy toward the enduro bro teenagers with 10k bikes ripping around blind corners at hawes on two-way trails.
@@yes-7018 perhaps the channel should read the IMBA guidelines. However, I will enlighten them. They are looking at it from the perspective of a rider, which is skewed. they need to understand other trail users' perspectives who often do not see or hear you till you are right on top of them. Ask yourself this, what is your reaction to a rider is approaching fast down the center of the trail? Your reaction is a 50/50 guess, right or left! 15mph is roughly 3x faster than all other trail users are moving. Now, global trail use rules, acceders ALWAYS HAVE RIGHT OF WAY! if you ever plan to ride anywhere in Moab or CO... you better know this as the results of a mistake are more serious on bidirectional trail systems, which are everywhere!
@@tinshield regardless, you have ascenders thus is reckless. I’ll humor your comment though. So you are stating you enjoy walking on a narrow shoulder with speeding cars feet away? Intelligence at its finest… of course your highway is dirt and full of rocks. But, wide as a highway…
I think that all bikes should come with an adjustable headset and rear suspension flip chip like the Stumpjumper Evo and Fuel EX so that you can tune your ride. In my experience, 77* STA and 65* HTA is the trailbike sweet spot.
God I miss South Mountain, Glad to see you still ripping it up dude!
Dude, it's so good out here!!!
There is a sweet spot for everyone. Slack, steep, or somewhere in the middle. I’m glad I went with my gut on the new bike. So far it’s perfect for where I ride.
Great video!!!!! Do what you got to do to make your bike fit you!!! I have watch your past videos about suspension set up and found it extremely helpful. I run 95-100 psi in my DVO Diamond fork on my Fezzari Delano Peak and people think I'm nuts but it fits my riding so who cares. Keep doing what your doing Bros!!!!!
100% agree. That said, am also 5'11" and recently purchased a Fezzari La Sal Peak size large. It fits me and my preferences perfectly. I feel no need to mess with the geo. I was happily surprised to find that the La Sal handles the tight switchbacks of the northern Utah trails I ride better than my short travel 2019 Stumpjumper.
Great video guys. I loved hearing Robs thoughts on how and why he set the bike up the way he did. The riding in the clips was awesome. All the best to you guys and your followers for 2023.
Yes gentleman. I own a Delano Peak, 65*_77.5* Stock. I own a Wasatch Peak hardtail 27.5+, 68*_75*,upgraded BB to SRAM DUB and GX Crankset 32T_165, from the Power Spline/SX, 32T_170. Both medium frames. Yes the Delano is a 29er too, so it's longer than my hardtail . . . by almost 4". FOUR INCHES!!!!! Not surprising that I prefer the hardtail, as most trails here are tight, space conscious builds originally made for 26" woodland creatures. BUT, the Delano can be grunted around those and makes the more open/downhill trails it's bitch. A little shorter front end would probably be a good compromise, though. 🤔
Thanks Rich. We could all do with a bike mentor. Someone that has the years of riding and watching all levels of riders like yourselves. I love tinkering with my bike setup but a little insight from an experienced pal keeps me in the right area. Love your coaching sessions. Best bang of your bucks is time with a great bike coach.😊
He did exactly what I would expect given the geo numbers on the La Sal. The large isn't huge, but it's definitely a bit on the big side for desert tech. I'm also 5'10" and my happy place on reach is somewhere around 470mm and 1230-1250mm on wheelbase and it sounds like it is similar with Rob. I'm surprised Rich isn't running a medium, I would think a smaller bike would be preferred for the flowy trails that make up most of the Bentonville area.
Yup, I foolishly went with a L. My angle set will be here tmrw and I'll get the medium Mason was riding setup for me.
Great Video. I really like how you've specified where you were riding (as I feel this influences what geo might be preferred) and what the changes did to improve the handling. I find most people just say that change "X" made the bike feel "way better". I like when you specify what the changes do to the handling on the trail - ie putting more weight on the front end.
Love this video, I ordered a Signal Peak in a Large last summer despite the XL being recommended. I’m 6’1” and do a lot of climbing so don’t want a stretched out bike as many of the newer designs have for riding in mellow foothills terrain.
Rob and Rich, Great advice 👍. I did not feel comfortable on my stumpy with the head spacer in the neutral position. The bike felt long and lunky. I turned the fork spacer to make the head angle steeper and it rode like a different bike. May have to try other adjustments mentioned in this video
Crazy how many people are on that trail!
Really good insight here guys. Rob, not many of us are as in tune with the bike feel as you are. Any suggestions for people to identify ways they might need to modify their fit/geo ?
Thank you gents. Great informative descriptions as usual. I always look forward to seeing you both together at this time of year in SOMO.
I dreamed of a medium..
Great video gentleman! Exactly why I ordered a medium Phoenix 🤝
I have my Stumpy EVO in high and steep. It’s definitely stable enough but turns great and the wheelbase similar to my regular Stumpjumper
Geo also depends on where you ride, going mostly down youll prefer the stretch but going mostly up you'll want to be more over the front wheel. So no perfect formula for everyone
Who the hell do you think you are?
The man, the myth, the legend!
Great video. Happy New Year!
I’m still on my Megatower V1 because the head tube angle and wheel base on the V2 is just too much . I don’t have ultra steep descents where I live so I prefer a 65% HTA and a smaller wheelbase for switchbacks and flatter trails.
Great content ! I thought 50mm stem was the longest stem for modern bikes these days. Also could you pls do a video of focusing on how bar roll affects riding characters ?
You’re in luck, we are LITERALLY heading out to shoot that today 👊🏻
Yup. Head angles have gone too far for anyone not living in the mountains. If you only have 600 foot climbs (i live in ontario) there is no reason to have slack bikes…. Baring 1/2 a dozen trails in the province that are truly gnarly.
Mediums now are the longer than larges of 5-7 years ago. I’m 5’11 and stick mostly with mediums and a 50mm stem now. A large on most bikes is way too much wheelbase for me.
I completely agree!
All my bikes are XL but my most recent bike (same Firebird), I sized down to L and love it. Fits great yet still maneuverable and not just a plow. Also lived in Ahwatukee 20 years ago and miss being able to ride on those trails every day (especially this time of year). Guessing my Firebird would do better than my old 2000 Giant XTC DS1 bombing down National, Javelina, or Sex Offender.
Hey Rich , great video as usual & love the banter between you and Rob as we say in Oz “ Taking the piss “ out of each other lol 😂
Quick question I’m the same height as you guys and M is a perfect fit for me despite what the factory fit calculations may say , now I understand Rob going from L to a M and putting a longer stem on to widen /lengthen the cockpit but a little confused about changing the headset and steeper angle making the wheelbase even shorter as I would’ve thought going to a M would have shortened the wheelbase enough?? 🤔
Keep up the great work guys 👍🤟
I bought a Canyon Spectral 29 (XL) but the fit wasn't quite right. I fit a 10mm longer stem, 20mm wider and taller bars and it feels so much better now!
Very interesting. I am 5'11" to 6', 210lbs, and i just got a la sal peak, and have only done one ride. It was in st George UT, on the Zen trail. I would say it didn't climb like a trail bike, but I was expecting that (and my skill or lack there of plays a factor). Also I'm not as experienced as you guys so any particularities or opinions I have I take with a grain of salt, but I agree for sure on the bottomless part. I felt great once I was going down and the bike felt just as playful and honestly better than the yt jeffsy I was coming from. I'm still working on suspension setting and $ince it was new I was nervous about scratching it trying to get up some tech lol I also bought mine because I want to keep doing park days, the occasional dh race, and Enduro races so maybe planned use case would also affect your frame size choice. I think the guys from 50 to 01 downsize cuz they are BMX guys and want a more flickable bike. So if Rob is really wanting something he can do techy climbs on, downsizing could make more sense.
Your comments about the large when you were riding it at angelfire were interesting. I'll have to keep this in mind as I ride the bike more (winter in Utah so I'm limited), but I don't think I had any fit or feeling complaints on the down for the initial ride.
I'm the opposite...short legs/longer torso and had xs (5ft) the first 2 bikes, then got a s/m Emtb and with some adjustments, it fits perfect. Rode the xs 7k mtb and chose to sell and get a small mtb.
Get ready for it. The industry is going go with steeper HT's, shorter TT's, and high BB's. Lol.
Great video great view bike
Happy New Year
i bought my first ever bike during Covid and of course because of the shortage on parts, i had to just order mine based on my height, after riding it for over 2 years now. i notice that my bike (trek fuel ex) is really long. and since its my first bike i didnt know about geometry and all that, i just knew if i could reach the ground while the post was up was good enough. even then, i find myself basically tip toeing to keep balance and i feel like it shouldnt be that way. ive yet to go into a shop to figure out what size i am but i have a feeling im a Small and not a medium. im 5'8 by the way and i feel like my inseam is very short.
Too many dudes at 5'7" think they should ride a large. Makes no sense at all.
Hi Rich, I’m considering the same change. Were you riding an S3 on your previous bike this year?
Great video. I have a LaSal Peak Elite and it's a great descender but tight switchback climbs suck. Any link to the specific angled headset you used?
Interesting! Happy rainy day New Year Phoenix (:
since you have rode both bikes whats your opinion on the transition spur vs the yt izzo uncaged 7 being that there bot 120/120 bikes. I primarily ride xc trails but like to ride gravity when i can.
Thanks Axel
I’ve actually been considering an angle set for my large transition sentinel, even though I’m not in Arizona anymore turning in northern, Virginia, and Maryland can still be somewhat technical and there’s really no long sustained DH where you carry a boat ton of speed. What’s your thoughts?
Hey everyone, I wonder if this can be done to make 2 bikes feel similar. I own a revel rascal and I love how it fits me, I also own a orbea rise ebike, similar geo but they totally feel different. Any thoughts?
I picked up a 2022 YT Capra Medium. Im 5'9" right at the upper end of M, lower end of L on their size chart. Something just feels off on the bike though. I may try this to see if it helps
Let me know if it helps Cory.
@@richdrewtherideseries definitely will. I find myself coming in contact with the rear tire on steap stuff often on the M capra. I know its a lot to do with incorrect form, but I have a L Intense trail bike that i very rarely come in contact with the rear tire on. Even on the same steep downs . Could this be because of the smaller size of the capra?
Maaaan do i miss SoMo
Did you do a +1 or +2 headset? What was the wheelbase, head angle and seat angle before and after this change?
60mm Stem!!? 🤯 *Dail 911* Hello, I would like to report a bike crime…
Right? LOL!
Should have titled the video "how to undo your bike's progressive geometry silliness". The longer, lower, and slacker thing is just marketing hype, with manufacturers following the herd. You can also get more responsive steering by chopping your bars to something less than 4 feet wide.
The main reason for it is stability. The slacker bikes are more forgiving which is what most people want. It has gotten a little silly though with 500mm reach size Ls on some bikes. Rich and Rob's riding technique is based around modern geo bikes and they're simply making personal preference changes rather than extreme sizing down to replicate old school geo. The riding coaches who preach extreme sizing down and insist that old school geo and riding technique is best are mostly banking on racing experience from 20 years ago
@@mrvwbug4423 That "racing experience from 20 years ago", is just a nice way of saying basic bike skills. I fully understand a lot of people want, and maybe need, forgiving bikes. And those bikes should be available to them, It's gone completely off the rails the last 4-5 years though. I personally like a longer reach. But someone on the east coast riding flat to severely undulating trails doesn't need a bike that is too forgiving for Rampage, or a 77 degree seat angle built for 3,000 foot climbs in the saddle.
Most people are riding bikes that are too big.
So you XC’d your trail bike…
This has been an issue for at least 7 years.
Not a great look! Blasting past hikers and ascenders in general jeopardizes all cyclist trail access. Shame!
I mean it’s a double wide+ width trail and everyone going up was hiking or hiking their bike. Hikers yield to bikes.. “blasting past” seems a big excessive. Riding past is more accurate, and riding a few feet away from everyone. Point this energy toward the enduro bro teenagers with 10k bikes ripping around blind corners at hawes on two-way trails.
@@yes-7018 perhaps the channel should read the IMBA guidelines. However, I will enlighten them. They are looking at it from the perspective of a rider, which is skewed. they need to understand other trail users' perspectives who often do not see or hear you till you are right on top of them. Ask yourself this, what is your reaction to a rider is approaching fast down the center of the trail? Your reaction is a 50/50 guess, right or left! 15mph is roughly 3x faster than all other trail users are moving. Now, global trail use rules, acceders ALWAYS HAVE RIGHT OF WAY! if you ever plan to ride anywhere in Moab or CO... you better know this as the results of a mistake are more serious on bidirectional trail systems, which are everywhere!
Trail was as wide as most highways.
@@tinshield regardless, you have ascenders thus is reckless. I’ll humor your comment though. So you are stating you enjoy walking on a narrow shoulder with speeding cars feet away? Intelligence at its finest… of course your highway is dirt and full of rocks. But, wide as a highway…
Lol, you want them stop and dismount? Give me a break. Go walk the mall.