Day9 STRUGGLES As A New Retail WoW Player And Offers Hilarious Insight
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- Опубликовано: 24 апр 2024
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![[Highlight] Day9 Reacts to YuGiOh Gameplay for the 1st Time](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CchMffzPUTI/mqdefault.jpg)
In this video i didnt see Day9 have any issues with complex retail wow systems because he never even made it that far. He was just confused with getting dropped into the middle of the story. I have no idea why the wow devs were like "yeah the solution to this is a tutorial island with its own story" rather than something related to the main story or even a goddamn 5 minute voiceover cutscene to lay some groundwork for the story.
I wonder how he would have faired with a boost to max level and then jumping into end game systems like m+ or raid etc. Maybe as a competitive player he'd have preferred it??
And yeah the story and where to insert new players seems like a monumental task atm
He also heavily pointed out that. He wasnt actually playing because for 80% of the video he is just listening to dialogue that is meaningless to him because he has no context.
A lot can be said about "managing expectations" but to some degree he's trying to go in without expectations. The only bar that was really set for him was the few hours he played of Classic the week prior, and the experience of that is literally "make character, get quest to kill mobs, come back, get new quest to kill other mobs." And so the expectation was set of slower-paced leveling, fighting enemies, and needing to use abilities as he got them in order to progress.
Meanwhile he's deliberately using nothing but Arcane Explosion here to kind of show that the buttons don't even matter, the vast majority of his time spent in Retail after Exile's Reach was nothing like the experience of Classic, and then add on the fact that all of the characters are just dumping exposition without letting him feel like he has any real volition or say in what's going on, combined with the fact that these are all characters that for the most part he is just expected to know bc why would they write an introduction into the 8th or w/e expansion into the game?
I don't think that seeing him as a primarily "competitive" player means anything to his expectations, and dropping him into a max level account would almost guaranteed be more confusion than actual enjoyment. To back up this statement on the thoughts of someone other than myself, look at his one and only stream of trying YuGiOh. That's a VERY complex game that just throws itself at you and expects you to understand it, but with no on-ramps it's incredibly frustrating and confusing, and Day[9] pretty much bounced off of it entirely. I feel like endgame Retail WoW has that same sort of complexity creep involved, where if you've been playing for years it's pretty much impossible for you to see it, but if you're brand new it's going to feel like an absolute mountain that you don't even know where to begin to climb.
He couldn't figure out how to put spells on his hotbar properly, you think throwing him into M+ is going to be a satisfying or enjoyable experience?
21:02 the excuse that WoW is 20 years old and has so much bloat doesn't work. Day9 just came through Exile's Reach which is relatively new and has specifically been designed to bridge all that.
The _real_ problem is that Blizzard treats the game like a software product that needs to be streamlined to the point where there's no game left anymore. The whole appeal of a MMO is to be dropped into a world where you get to figure out thing yourself. Ever since WoD/Legion the game has become less like an open world and more like a mildly interactive TV series with a handful of protagonist going through the usual plot twists.
Or to quote Asmon, retail begins at level cap. Classic begins at lvl 1.
I think another thing that is in FF14's favor in terms of story, is that progression is gated *behind* the story. You will always start in ARR, and progress from expansion to expansion in order, whereas in WoW you have complete freedom to experience what you want. I think there's pros and cons to both systems, as I personally prefer the freeform open-ended exploration of Classic and its questing, but I still enjoy FF14 far more because it always feels like the experience is consistent. And don't tell anyone but... I sometimes skip cutscenes because I just want to unlock the Extremes and Savages, because sometimes I don't want to listen to dialogue and exposition in the moment, and I just want to play the game. Especially when I'm wanting to raid with my FC, and I don't want to keep anyone waiting when I'm unlock the requisite trials and raids. Levelling might be linear, but there's always a bracket of every ten levels to look forward to to buy gear with Poetics. So everything tends to be *smoother*, if only sometimes a little bit boring and bland. But I'd rather my experience be smooth and bland, than rough, obfuscated, frustrating and ALSO bland.
I think the key phrase from this video is 'contextless information'
in any kind of narrative-heavy setting like this, a new player is bound to be unsure what is setup to file away for future reference vs a contextless aside that just adds texture to the world. so you either commit to memorizing ALL of it (which can be entertaining, it has merit), or you do the sensible thing and start tuning it out while you wait to be engaged by something more active, like the combat.
this is why I'd argue that even ARR's relatively slow start does better in this department, because all the characters address YOU, the new adventurer, give you info that relates to where you are RIGHT NOW. imagine if, say, somebody in the first 10 quests of ARR sat you down to talk about the Autumn War, or the Allagans, or even something relatively recent like the Ala Mhigan Refugee crisis. I can imagine most new players would react with a general "...okay, but what does this have to do with me? I just got here. who are you? should I care?"
I love this view on things. Never thought about the MSQ specifically like this but it makes a lot of sense :)
Even FF14 Online at least they have players do stuff at the start what he’s describing is he played WOW without ever attacking anything during the starter quests basically doing nothing.
You would of encountered a couple solo duties, fates and even reached first dungeon in FF14 by now.
at the very least when you go to do your first class quest for the job you picked to start as, the very first quest is "okay heres a basic overview of the class philosophy and style, now go kill some marmots" thats at least some combat!
FF14 is an amazing game for someones first MMO -someone who has bounced off MMOs other than classic. I just started playing FF14 and I got a good amount of lore and gameplay almost instantly.
Only thing FF14 pissed me off about what not allowing you to party with friends till you buy quite a bit.
@@zebedeesummers4413 you can be invited to a party in free trial but you cannot invite people unless you buy the game yeahh :(
@@zebedeesummers4413 You can make a party as long as someone that paid made it for you. They can make it, invite both of you then leave. There is people hanging out in the starting cities all the time so you can ask to have a party.
It's insane to me how Day9 never played WoW. Day9 is the OG twitch game streamer and worked for Blizzard xD. I think Day9 has a good point of view in which someone with no expectation would not look anything up cause that's too much work and for what?
Honestly loved the "tutorial skip" as a veteran, it's much better for Horde lol Alliance looks awful. But even with tutorial I'll never leave my FF/GW2 friends to go through it without me showing them the way. Hell I'll send guides for them to watch before they even start.
I read a Preach comment that said apparently Day9 never played WoW because when he was younger he felt playing a "non-competitive" game was a waste of time. Now that's just me repeating one random comment but I'd be intrigued to know if it's true
@@Psybear_tvDuring his first stream of Classic he basically confirmed that himself, pretty much his own words. He played nothing but Starcraft for like 10 years, and then Starcraft 2 for another 5, and then finally started playing other games after hitting a level of what I would describe as burnout. He then played a lot of Hearthstone and now does a mix of mostly MtG with some variety here and there.
But the part about "playing a non-competitive game was a waste of time" is the way he described his younger self's mindset.
@@Psybear_tv It is worth noting at the time starCraft was his Job while he was also doing college then working a lot. It isn't like he had a lot of free time.
It's a "catch 22"...if you level according to the pace of each xpac it would take a player 100's of hours just to get to max level. But if you speed the leveling up too much, it feels slapped together and confusing to many players. It's just what old MMO's have to deal with.
EQ1 and EQ2 have been dealing with this problem even longer than WoW, and believe it or not...WoW is actually dealing with it's age a little better than EQ has done. As usual, Blizzard is STILL looking at issues EQ has....sees what they've tried to deal with it and mistakes they've made...then improves on what EQ pioneers. Including poaching a top Dev from EQ, Holly Longdale, to handle the WoW Classic stuff when she was instrumental in establishing EQ's "Progression Servers" (which is basically like WoW classic, but done years before they tried it) and the "special rules set" system she implemented there....which is the "Discovery" thing in WoW classic, but just yet again taken one step further and improved on. I'm sure is why they hired her and instrumental in lengthening the life of the game.
This is just how things go in this industry, and I get that...Blizzard has always been a master at letting other companies innovate, then fixing the problems with it and refining those ideas. Blizzard innovates a little, but not to the extent Verant/SOE did in Everquest. Is it harder to innovate, or to fix what has already been tried? No right answer...asking that just for context.
Bottomline: Their is a flavor of WoW for just about any style of player right now, and that's a good thing. But yeah, EQ did it first. 😉😁
If you watch day9 go through classic, he had a much less painful experience and (this is the biggest thing missing from retail wow) the freedom to do things at his pace and not being explicitly told to do everything with no threats. Also not being locked into back to back cutscenes talking about 6 year old content. Wow classic is actually a game that you play. The current day retail tutorial is a 4 hour movie where you occasionally hit buttons.
FF14 will have this problem soon. The FF14 Main Story is already hundreds of hours long. For anyone looking for a more unguided, more old-school approach to leveling, it's not going to be a fun time. I heard the FF14 team is already looking into an option to start your FF14 journey in 6.1 or 7.0
I expect ff14 to provide a summary of the prior events first at least so youll know what happened despite not having played through it personally if you choose to skip partway through.
Yeah, managing expectations whenever someone starts a videogame is so important. Different games have different experiences and if those experiences aren't what are expected then there's going to be a problem. Like... a Final Fantasy game is going to involve a dramatic story that starts in political machinations and ends in punching God. Sometimes literally and often with the Power of Friendship. Later iterations have gone in HARD on the cutscenes and the dialogue and the reading to the point that they're closer to interactive novels than traditional "games". This is not a bad thing, but it is a thing that needs to be prepared for ahead of time.
World of Warcraft was never supposed to be that sort of story, but it's trying to *become* it because Final Fantasy is doing it so well and people are responding to it. The result of that has been the slow loss of what WoW did right, which was closer to being an interactive comic book story where we, the players, are background characters while the NPCs and the World Itself take center stage.
The first ten hours or so of any modern game is going to be setting up characters, setting up situations, explaining mechanics and methodology and community standards and helping people figure out what their roles are. Not so much the actual *playing* of the game.
Like, with some games, WoW especially, the actual *playing* of the game is an Endgame sort of thing. But that confusing beginning is to be *expected* anymore. But yes, it absolutely IS a problem.
Love your full breakdown here. I especially like how you present FF14 haha the "punching God" made me laugh.
@@Psybear_tv Oh, it's not just 14 that does the "punching God" thing. It's just this side of ALL of them. Like, it became literal in FF2 with punching both God AND the Devil, but even in FF1 the concept is there. FF3 is where the Crystal Tower was introduced and the whole Raid sequence from FFXIV was pretty well borrowed and re-interpreted from there. Including the Cloud of Darkness taking the position of "God" for punching. The one I remember the best was from FF9 because Necron was very much a surprise, but rooted in concepts explored in Endwalker.
RPGs, especially JRPGs, have, as a genre, a tendency to put the combat and the mechanics of playing a game on the backseat to the story unfolding that we, the players, are an inherent part of. It's just part of what *makes* it an RPG.
This is why knowing what kind of game something is is so vitally important. And why the genre of "MMO" is fast approaching uselessness in terms of setting player expectations, which is a vital part of development and marketing.