I have an Orient automatic diver watch and love it such a great value around $200 and has better features and looks better than many comparable diver watches in the $500 price range.
Seiko better get their shit together because the deterioration of their reputation will ultimately affect Grand Seiko’s reputation (as unwarranted as that may be) and their attempt to move upmarket. Perception is reality.
Problem is that a large manufacturer in XXI century is expected to have their quality control integrated well into production processes. In other words, product should be perfect when coming off the line, without any involvement of a quality inspector. It is sad that it isn't so - a Japanese watchmaker should be a leader in lean manufacturing.
What's surprising is that Seiko can't be unaware of the QC issues and the backlash. It would be great if a watch reviewer would conduct an interview with a Seiko exec and raise the problem.
If I can get a perfectly aligned 30 year-old seiko 5 off the bay, there is no excuse for misalignment on a $2000 piece 30 years later using better machinery. 🤦
Pressed steel clasps, misaligned bezels, and misaligned dials becoming the norm for Seiko, and with the price hikes over the last 18 months, well, they just aren't good enough. Why does Orient perform better?
@@matthewsprague7674 not directly, they're all part of the same overarching corporation but operate as completely separate entities. Some people would have you believe that Seiko Watch Corp owns Orient - not true
I’ve never understood being such a fan of a brand that you’re willing to put up with stuff like this. Thank you for not just writing this off as “it’s Seiko, har har har”.
It happens all the time, I love Apple products but they have had all sorts of issues over the years that I was willing to put up with. Very few products are perfect in life and compromise is necessary sometimes. For example I loved my iPhone 4 and it was a spectacular phone and software, however the fact the antenna was blocked by holding it was an issue, admittedly a barrier case sorted it but the fact Apple came out publicly and told people 'you are holding it wrong' was a big no no
I have to admit that their QC is as good as non existing, got a SPB207J1 and it went back within 24 hours as it had some issues. But with that being said I have to Seiko Presage watches which I truly love, SRQ025J1 and SPB061J1, amazing time keeping and just wonderful watches. My advice is to buy whatever you might like and try it out, look for anything which might have been missed and if you are not happy just return the damn watch
People have been stating that seiko punches above its weight for so long that I think seiko believed its own hype. Thought, 'oh maybe we should just charge more while keeping everything the same' including the marker issue apparently.
I’ve had pretty good luck with alignments and other quality control issues. What drives me nuts is that they don’t regulate their watches well enough. Spending over $1000 for a watch that loses 15 seconds/day is unacceptable
This is a very fair point: whatever their price, Seiko does not regulate their watch at all. The whole process is industrialized as much as possible, they only do routine checks
I love Seiko - LOVE THEM. As a brand. You are 100% correct. This is silly and borderline abusive on the part of the company. I now buy homages - like that Steeldive Willard you were positive on. Seiko now has a new Prospex Willard that will run you $2,500 USD. I think $90 on AliEx is a better bet. Thanks again for all the hard work - and don't let the haters bring you down.
I ended up buying a Tondorino (a sterile Steeldive SD1970 but with no lume on the ceramic bezel, other than a lume-pip, and no UV anti-reflection on the flat sapphire crystal). I then sent the watch to my favourite watch-modder who fitted a genuine Seiko dial, aligned everything perfectly, and regulated the NH35 to +3 seconds per day with no beat error. Then, added a vintage Italian-leather strap. Total cost for everything? About £275. I can hand-on-heart say that it is every bit as good as the new 6105 reissue, and a grand cheaper!
Nope. I bought an Eco-drive and the chapter ring was misaligned. Sent it to customer service in Germany, they got it better aligned, but the watch came back with a hour index partially oxidized (looks like it) and dust on the dial and under the glass. Complained, got no answer.
I love it it’s true that’s why I got away from them and I went with Citizen I got the pro master automatic I bought it for the same price is for a Seiko 100% better than they would ever be everything lines up everything‘s perfect and heirlooms great love them will never go back to Seiko
@@todd344 Their newer citizen models have ridiculously, almost scientifically straight lines. their second hands land on the index everytime. I have the calendier and it's incredible the accuracy.
Seiko is just a mass market brand - I never understood why so many people are cheerleaders for it. I find that Citizen is much better for quartz watches.
I love my Citizen Tsuno, great functions, solar power, power reserve indicator, alarm ( not loud enough though), chronograph, sapphire crystal, battery life great, I only charged it once the last year in the sun. It holds time perfectly, I payed around $ 700
Corporations never care about the customer. It’s always been this way and it’s not going to change. Small companies are the ones that care. But as they grow they will eventually stop caring.
I have 6 Seikos, some quartz some mechanical. Never have any issue. But I prefer Rolex. I bought Rolex mostly second hand, often have scars, damaged bezels, time not very accurate and I service them change the the damaged parts ; polished and that service often cost more than US$1,500 and expect to work great for another 10 years. For 1 Rolex, I can buy my entire Seiko collection, and each Rolex service cost can buy me another Seiko brand new. Love my Seiko but Rolex to me is like my "air"; I can't breath without it.
@@andreshultz8638 I seriously prefer Tissot. I have an automatic and it never broke down. My brand new automatic Seiko is going back to get fixed again. I will get another automatic Tissot, but never again another Seiko, not even quartz.
Seiko is no longer the value proposition it used to be. This is coming from someone who grew up with no less than a dozen Seiko. My SARB035 also had a misaligned chapter ring. And it poked me in the eye every time I look at the dial. The 6R15c movement gave out on me within 5 years. I ended up with a cocktail time as a replacement. It’s okay. I think I will get a Hamilton for my next watch. No more Seiko for me either. So hard to say goodbye to a long relationship.
Not unreasonable to service a movement after 5 years. The problem is the watch is cheap enough that servicing costs more than the watch is worth. Or I would have done with my SARB033 and SARX045.
I've had people tell me the bezel "isn't even 2 degrees off, that's very small!". Except 1.5 degrees is the WORST possible scenario on a 120 click bezel and you can't be 3 degrees off. It's a complete joke that these things continue to happen with Seiko, no matter the price.
It's like having a misaligned parts on your new car, doors would not close properly because they are fucked up, wipers will swipe over the windshield and steering wheel would be crooked. Would you be happy to own such crap? I wouldn't
Re-entry into the earth's atmosphere by Apollo craft was within 2.4 degrees, so 2 degrees is not small. I can easily detect far less than one degree of error in a dial, and it is annoying.
What is shocking to me is the fact that Seiko, literally, cannot get things straight, but Grand Seiko goes above and beyond to make sure everything is beyond perfect. Obviously, there is a vast disparity between Grand Seiko and Seiko, but you would think the two would share the common belief in superb quality control since they both come from the overarching Seiko Holdings Corp.
Sadly, even Gs has been slipping lately. I’ve come across a few we issues. The moment they increased production, they’ve had a slight increase in qc issues. Obviously, no where near as bad as regular seiko’s.
Actually, I recently bought a Seiko Presage Porco Rosso Enamel Dial Spring Drive Limited Edition watch with a 37% discount Brand New. The watch is fantastic with no QC issues what so ever. The Spring Drive is identical to the Spring Drive used in Grand Seikos. Finally, it did have a Grand Seiko retail price and seems to have been in the shop for a year before I bought it which led to the huge discount. Maybe due to the Watch Badge Snobs but I don't care because I love my new watch.
GS should just be changed to Credor and halve production. this way the name "seiko" doesn't hold them back. I regularly wear my SBGA407 "skyflake" after 18 months of heavy daily wear, so i'm not a hater... :)
I haven't bought a Seiko at retail in a few years. The move upmarket while not addressing QC and somehow getting worse at it, made me stop giving them my money. My collection is 90% Seiko, and will always be mostly Seikos. I've just decided to buy pre-owned or vintage Seikos instead. Seiko's back catalog is full of hidden gems, and the 90's and 2000's still had great quality pieces.
last time I get brand new Seiko I sent to service the calibre since the first day I bought haha (pretty sure they changed that calibre instead, it was too abnormally fast) if you ask which one it is, it's Prospex Save the Ocean Penguin Day
@@edwardfletcher7790 Yeah my Casio F-91W has been on numerous tours as has my Suunto. I thought I'd try a cheap style dive watch but was very disappointed. You are correct it was under warranty and went back for a refund.
@@frazzl they're owned by Epson which is one of the big 3 in the Seiko group. Technically not a sub-brand of Seiko but 6 of one half a dozen of the other.
In the last month I’ve purchased two inexpensive Seiko’s; a made in Japan SBDY099 Green Tortoise, which lines up perfectly, and a made I have no idea where SNE543P1, which is also perfect. In the past year, however, I’ve purchased and returned, an SBDC065, a Capt Willard, and a SARX033. All had alignment issues, and all were made in Japan. JDM used to be considered a step up in quality and desirable, but I’m not so sure..
MAN Jody... I was going to go for one of these... Love the Grand Seiko lite vibes... But thats not an easy fix of it's the dial.... BTW I agree most of the Seiko I have purchased or featured on my channel have had alignment issues. Kind of sad 😭
I own Seiko and Orient watches. I never had a QC problem with Orient. I own a Bambino 36mm and a Ray 2 - awesome watches for less than 200. Seiko on the other hand...misaligned chapter rings are a norm. Loved Seiko, never cared much for Orient - till I gave them a try. Today I would say it is my favourite brand at the entry level
@@marceldemir7514 I wouldn't say never- the 6R15D in my SARX045 is keeping a consistent +1s/day. Perhaps the previous owner had it professionally adjusted by a wizard watchmaker, or maybe I'm just lucky. The F6G42 in my Orient Star keeps +2.7s/day avg, out of the box. Lucky me.
Last Seiko I bought I got the AD to show me the watch on video, wasn’t aligned so I got them to order me another. Showed me a video of the new one and it was aligned, then I pulled the trigger. Pedantic I know but it was for a Willard and I don’t want to spend 1k and it be misaligned.
Why it's definitely best to go with a reputable AD, just flat out refuse the watch if it's not aligned. People play with fire when they go with grey imports
Never worry about being pedantic. I guarantee the vast majority of the business owners would never accept inferior product themselves so if they question you on your efforts then they are being total hypocrites.
I've owned 16 Seiko watches over the past six years and over 40% of them have had minor cosmetic issues that should have been caught by a robust quality control process. The chapter ring alignment is something that Seiko seems to have a hard time getting right. I agree with Jodi -- no more Seikos for me.
I was gutted when I got the watch of my childhood dreams when it had a misaligned chapter ring and a dust speck. I love my Turtle but... And then seeing Steeldive, San Martin etc with so much better QC and spec for a fraction of the price.
I've had a few $300ish Seiko, and I haven't gotten myself to buy any of their $1,000 offerings. I've bought more expensive watches (Omega and Oris), but I'm not gonna buy any expensive Seiko sight unseen (online).
same here too.. I stopped buying seiko after I bought their "limited edition" 1000 pcs only to find out later they released the same exact watch and call it international edition 2018 pcs.. And then recurring alignment issues stopped me from buying completely and move to citizen.
No way, I did exactly the same 😄. Traded 6 of mine towards a 2012 Seamaster Professional. All of the Seiko's had alignment issues. The only ones I've kept are my gen2 monster and my Flightmaster. Hope you enjoy your Seamaster!
@@chronocommander007 if it is done by the factory it would bother me. If it is a scratch or ding done by myself, then I'm okay with it. Only Seiko I have owned is the GS snowflake, so I cannot speak for their QC.
My SNKL23J1 has misaligned hands, day and date (but the blue dial is georgeous). My SKX 013 has no misalignments at all, runs -8 sec/day unregulated and consistant for a year now. A Seiko certainly is a miss or a hit. Am I ready to spend 1000$ or more on a Prospex Line diver without having to marry the AD’s daughter to make it run right afterwards? I am not so sure. Even though I wear my Seikos proudly.
@The Insanely Great Apple Channel Toyota must be an exception because they are still the most reliable. Seiko makes watches covering a wide range of price points and the quality will vary accordingly. Grand Seiko is most definitely not average quality.
I never understood how Seiko is the staple budget brand and Citizen gets so little love. I would take pretty much any Citizen over the Seiko equivalent any day of the week, especially when buying without being able to check the piece myself.
Concur about Citizen being just as good if not better than Seiko… just ask folks making a living Diving… I think between both brands Citizen holds lions share of those folks business
Is it a generational shift? 30 years ago, a misaligned bezel would have meant a Seiko worker needing to do the honorable thing... Now days??! Maybe a gentle reminder via a memo.
As I've commentated elsewhere the value proposition with Seiko drops off a cliff at the thousand pound point and the competition crowds in, the real issue is the budget watches are poor value toothese days. £250 for a 5?!.....Heloooo San Martin,!
As pointed out Grand Seiko is their luxury brand. Are we going to bash them? Even Seiko’s $1000+ watches are produced in numbers far exceeding some brands total brand production. QC issues are QC issues but most people don’t realize how hard it is to produce an item on a mass scale. Seiko also knows the mass market doesn’t care about the imperfections.
I like the idea of Pagani but could never bring myself to wear a blatant rip off of a more expensive watch no matter how cheap it was. My personal opinion and certainly don't judge others who do.
@@stevebennett7783 Yeah I get where you are coming from, but companies have been knocking off from other companies for decades now. Some say that the Submariner was a knock off of the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms 🤷♂️ Good thing is that 99.9% of the population couldn't care less
Fuck Seiko, go for Certina. One of my favorite Certina watches is the Double Security Blue Ribbon chrono diver. I wish for Certina to make the DS Blue Ribbon chrono divers again, same body, same rotating bezel, same dial, same subdials, 1/10 second ETA 251.264, threaded buttons, diferrent screw-on caseback with a turtle shell symbol, Certina DS on the center.
My problem imo with the Swiss alternatives in the price range (Certina, Tissot, Hamilton, Mido,etc.) is that, despite having better QC, their designs are generally less compelling than what Seiko offers. Certina gets recommended a lot and I find their divers to be boring. Just my opinion, though the fact that so many keep going back to Seiko despite their poor QC, makes me think many agree with me.
@@trevbarlow9719 i like Seiko divers, ones from the beginning to the present, as for the chrono divers, the Certina Double Security Blue Ribbon C007.417.11.041.00 & C007.417.11.051.00 are my go to divers.
And because a Vostok is about the price of a decent watch strap. That forgives a hell of a lot. This nonsense of seiko qc being so bad on more expensive watches is ridiculous. Once you get over $1k, you're into the realm of lower tier mainstream Swiss brands, and they tend to actually have decent QC.
I thought that I was alone in questioning Seiko. I have several of their offerings and have noted that the newer they are the less trustworthy the build. Yet, as Jody notes, the prices are on a steep upward trajectory. This smacks of the Japanese reputation being sacrificed to off-shore builds just to inflate profit. Which works for a while - until customer realizes that they are paying more and getting less. This is what drives the consumer to shop elsewhere. Seiko will either get their act together or be relegated to selling in blister packs on a Walmart display.
I've said before I think Seiko-Epson is having Orient occupy Seiko's old "affordable quality spot," and then trying to elevate Seiko to a mid-level price/quality tier in line with their SARB and Prospex and stuff, but that they were moving the price up first, and quality up second, relying on their brand recognition to carry them through the transition. But I've been saying that for quite a long time now. When is the QC going to match the new price tier? You're running out of goodwill and time Seiko.
...was just about to say the same thing. When my Willard homage from SM is less than a quarter of the price of a mates Seiko SPB153J 'Willard', runs better and is literally indistinguishable quality-wise, I'd be an idiot to buy Seiko wouldn't I?
@@BoboBloxham Agreed. For the price you pay for an SM with anything other than the standard (and bullet proof) NH35, you may may as well go for an entry level Swiss brand. I might re-evaluate that if SM were to use a Miyota 9 series.
Yep, 100% agree, I just cannot get on board with Seiko anymore for this exact reason. You should not be crossing your fingers when opening the box of a watch hoping you get a 'good' one, or feel lucky when yours all lines up etc. When I buy a watch of any real value, if there is poor alignment etc, regardless of the brand I will return it, because it is just not acceptable, and nothing will change if we just accept it.
Can't you just send it back and get your money back? I know it sucks but I make sure I know the return policy and use it when I'm not happy with a product.
@@robertlindo8058 They certainly would! It seems nowadays they want to rely on the "casual" watch fan, someone that will like the look of the watch and buy it without paying any attention to the QC. A lot of the long time Seiko fans are turning away from later models for the same reasons we all are. Its just a real shame they still don't seem to care!
3:20 Honestly I’m glad you decided to make this video. With a $2,000 price tag and Seiko as the brand, this lack of quality is absolutely unacceptable. I was seriously considering this watch (specifically the SPB221J1) for my next purchase but after what I’ve seen today and on similar videos, unless Seiko gets their stuff together, I don’t know if I’ll ever even buy from this brand again. I just hope this issue doesn’t spread to their other collections. Shame on you Seiko😤😤😤
I just bought a Seiko SPRE55, and of course, the chapter ring is misaligned. but i don't think i can return it as it is a "very minor fault" and not significantly crooked. I googled and watched bunch of Seiko unboxing and review videos, and more than half of them i saw had misaligned chapter ring. which is similar to your experience with Seiko. how come a company with lots of history and reputation let this happen for YEARS ? it is so stupid. i won't buy any more Seiko again. i own bunch of Casio and Timex watches and they have better QC than Seiko, despite being cheaper.
Funny enough I was talking to a friend who's new to the watch world about the Seiko QC issue and he was baffled about such a big brand not being able to sort them selves out. It's a weird thing that we just accept it.
I think we've accepted it because so many RUclips watch reviewers have accepted it, and like Jody said, we've treated it as something of a joke. I'm glad a major reviewer is finally saying enough is enough.
@@algorithm007ify good point.... however I'm saving for a top end auto (Explorer or Omega Railmaster / Aqua Terra), and my G Shock 5600E and F91W casios are perfect as every day any condition watches.... also incredibly they both have only lost around 2 seconds in 12 months...a cheap automatic won't keep time anywhere near to that...
Seiko will continue putting out this crap as long as their fanboys keep buying. Sakura, Inc. (Japan) sells just about every Seiko in the catalogue. In their terms, they state that they will NOT check for alignment in advance, and; misalignment is NOT grounds for return. Personally, I have purchased 3 Seiko's in 3 separate decades (I am that old). All three had alignment issues. So, it's not a recent thing. As long as people keep buying there is absolutely no incentive for Seiko to do anything at all about it. My last purchase WAS my very last. No way in hell I would pay $210 for that watch; let alone $2100.
I have three Seiko. $500 - $1,000 price range. All of them have dial markers all over the place. There is not a consistent twist such as the whole dial of out square, but just a random hit or miss with placement. A misaligned bezel insert, while unacceptable QC, is of course relatively easy to fix. I too will not but Seiko again.
I love my SARB017 and I want to buy more Seikos, but the QC scares me off. I'm glad I got lucky with my SARB. I hope they get it together so I fell confident enough to buy more Seikos.
Being a huge Seiko fan I remained in denial for a long time. I was noticing little things and forgave too much up till I bought one of the latest generation 4r36 sports models with a triple whammy. Misaligned bezel, misaligned 6 o'clock marker and hour hand not lining up with indices on the hour. I'm inclined to recommend Orient over Seiko now. My Defender 2, apart from a cheap jangly bracelet, is leagues ahead, with zero quality issues taking into account the price point, which is about the same as the equivalent Seiko. What's slightly irksome is that Seiko own Orient. Maybe they leave them alone to get on with it. 🤔 My advice is if you've definitely set your heart on any Seiko, buy from a shop where you can scrutinise it very carefully before committing. You may pay a bit more but believe me you'll save yourself a lot of hassle over buying unseen from an Internet retailer using generic photos, not of the watch you're buying.
I've sold all my Seiko's except my Samurai - I can find much better quality in the micro brand market and those off aliexpress for a much keener price.
I've argued this for a while. If someone like Pagani Design puts a little more into their watches in the quality department and they'd eat Seiko's low to mid-tiers.
Seiko watches today are made all over the world now and so to expect the same quality of Japan-made Seiko especially that's more affordable than Swiss brands simply is not realistic any longer, when you see Japan movement printed on the dial of a Seiko watch it only means the movement is from Japan, the rest of the watch isn't I simply wouldn't buy a Seiko that's more than $1,000, if you can afford that you are better off buying something Swiss-made anyway, there are brands like Hamilton, Tissot, Mido, Glycine, Christopher Ward and such that are comparable in that price range and feel much more upscale
Seiko makes some absolutely wonderful watches, but the QC issues, poor timekeeping, and higher prices are just too much. Every company that manufactures products will turn out a lemon here or there. Seiko expects its customers to take its nonstop stream of lemons and make lemonade. Sadly the Seikoholics rationalize this garbage.
Hope they'll manage QC issues as You mention.. We love Seiko & give them critics for greater good in the future Btw, recently Seiko released 40 mm Astron Series.. seems they really care Customers advice 👍
Astron and quartz GS is the only two with superb QC watches. Both are made in the same factory as Automatic and SD GS. But hand assembled by different division. And that quartz division still deliver the level of QC like making a 50 piece of limited edition watches.
I'm a die hard Land Rover owner...so, that being said...I'm still sticking by Seiko! LOL!!! Regarding both brands...I just love 'em, imperfections and all!
I've been through two of the new Seiko Alpinists, out of Japan. I can't seem to get one that meets its accuracy specs. For a $600 watch, it seems like it should actually tell the time. It's very disappointing. If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have bought a Seiko.
In 2022 the QC issues are going on. Just buy a king turtle (Green version) I really love the watch. I buy it at retail price inside the Seiko official shop in Paris. On 3 watch only one was good for the alignment. But I notice later in the day a little dust speck on the 6 hour marker. It is not really noticeable but a bit annoying for a more than 500 bucks watch. I keep it because I fond of this watch, but for this price it is a lack of respect to the customers. The japan version are maybe better than the international one, I don't know.
Gotta’ agree with you. I’ve got no problem with the minor issues on my SKX, but when I recently purchased the new SPB143 (for just under $1200) and the crown action was poor and was told by the AD that it was “within spec,” I found it hard to believe that was OK, and he refunded my money. It’s not that I’m THAT fussy, but for over a grand you expect a certain quality level. Meanwhile, my SARB 033 in almost every way is perfect. Like I said, I’m with you Jody.
@@meowianoverlord4854 that’s weird because I can’t find a single video about GS misalignment. Of course there will be some, but they will be well within tolerances of Swiss manufacturers and even better actually.
@@Bob_Smith19 No, I didn't. I'm already used to level of QC that Seiko or even GS has. It's just expected. Another person that I know, his spring drive GMT got dust in it. If you want perfect QC just move away from Seiko.
Kinda sad when cheap vostoks can have better QC than an expensive seiko, my vostoks haven’t had any QC problems like the seikos in this video. Of course the bezel on Vostok’s is nothing to talk about, since my scuba dude bezel is held on by a cheap wire spring, instead of a nice clickety click it just make a faint scratching sound 😆
My first automatic watch was a seiko 5 sports which I purchased in late 2020. It had a lot of issues with the bracelet. It rattled and was loose and also the first link which sits between the lugs was extremely loose and made sounds. I sold that watch last year for 30% less than what I paid for it. And after watching this video , its safe to say that I'd never buy a seiko again.
I bought a Seiko 5 3 years ago that was a total lemon. The power reserve on it lasted less than 7 hours!!!! The winding stem was tiny. So tiny I could barely set the watch. I gave it away almost immediately.
I've been giving Seiko a wide berth. I bought a Steeldive and it's an awesome alternative. Lately I've bought a Glycine and a Hamilton, and even picked up a G-Shock Rangeman.
Bought a Steeldive Sumo, and at 1/4 of the price of Seiko Sumo it is a steal. Everything lines up perfectly, nice bezel action, and better overall than my Seiko Monsters and Turtles.
@@zuno555 Steeldive delivers. I have handled about 20 Steeldive watches in the last year, only one had an alignment issue. Percentage wise it is not a great score, but much better than Seiko’s score here… And if you take into account the price difference…
I’ve had two Casio Protreks that lasted 10 yrs and then quit working. Screen going blank, time resetting to TKY time, year resetting to a decade ago etc, etc. No more digital Casio’s for me.
Yeah, I've seen two of the older Shoguns that needed adjustment out of the box. After the fix they were super, but for $1200US it's ridiculous that anything is needed except for sizing. The new white Shogun looks even better but $1400 on rubber? It had better give racing tips, read bedtime stories and be absolutely perfect. I think my Seiko limit is $500 these days.
Imagine, for a moment, that Invicta decided to do an ultra-premium model for $2,000 and the numbers were misaligned like that... There would be 0 people in the comments defending it. I like to think Seiko should be held to at least the standard of a damn invicta. So, here we are.
I get the suspicion that most of Seiko's quality controllers went to Orient.
Seems like it
... great quality watches
Does seem that way
It seems
I have an Orient automatic diver watch and love it such a great value around $200 and has better features and looks better than many comparable diver watches in the $500 price range.
Seiko better get their shit together because the deterioration of their reputation will ultimately affect Grand Seiko’s reputation (as unwarranted as that may be) and their attempt to move upmarket. Perception is reality.
Hey, means a cheaper GS for me. I don't mind at all 😁
Seen it all before. For example, with Sony, and before that when National became Panasonic.
If you're a traditional Seiko buyer, switch to Orient.
You're not wrong my friend.
If that happens they will just re brand grand seiko i think(but a cheaper GS spring drive is amazing though)
I had QC issues on a 3 k + USD watch. Jagged edges along the chapter ring. I am done with them forever.
I’m guessing their QC are working from home.
hahahaha
Problem is that a large manufacturer in XXI century is expected to have their quality control integrated well into production processes.
In other words, product should be perfect when coming off the line, without any involvement of a quality inspector.
It is sad that it isn't so - a Japanese watchmaker should be a leader in lean manufacturing.
Lol! Excellent! 😂
What's surprising is that Seiko can't be unaware of the QC issues and the backlash. It would be great if a watch reviewer would conduct an interview with a Seiko exec and raise the problem.
@@mohammedhanif6780 great observation. They have to know but have decided that it is more profitable to continue as is.
If I can get a perfectly aligned 30 year-old seiko 5 off the bay, there is no excuse for misalignment on a $2000 piece 30 years later using better machinery. 🤦
Dunno, but "Seiko doesn't give a sh** anymore" sounds like a pretty good excuse to me...
It feels like they keep all the A-stock for themselves in Japan and send all the B-stock out to the rest of the world
Like every american guitar companies
Happens with japanese guitars too
Pressed steel clasps, misaligned bezels, and misaligned dials becoming the norm for Seiko, and with the price hikes over the last 18 months, well, they just aren't good enough. Why does Orient perform better?
Good question re Orient. I'm right in thinking Orient is a sister company yes?
Not to mention still treating flat sapphire as some kind of exclusive, super premium feature.
Yes, yes and yes. Shame on you Seiko!
Dont forget unsigned crowns for watches costing over a 1000 USD. How is that even a thing Seiko? How is it acceptable?
@@matthewsprague7674 not directly, they're all part of the same overarching corporation but operate as completely separate entities. Some people would have you believe that Seiko Watch Corp owns Orient - not true
I’ve never understood being such a fan of a brand that you’re willing to put up with stuff like this. Thank you for not just writing this off as “it’s Seiko, har har har”.
“i’Ll tAkE a SeIkO over aNy rOlEx!”
It happens all the time, I love Apple products but they have had all sorts of issues over the years that I was willing to put up with. Very few products are perfect in life and compromise is necessary sometimes. For example I loved my iPhone 4 and it was a spectacular phone and software, however the fact the antenna was blocked by holding it was an issue, admittedly a barrier case sorted it but the fact Apple came out publicly and told people 'you are holding it wrong' was a big no no
@@diavalus
I'll buy a Seiko over a Rolex since i can't afford any Rolex's models yet.
Hehe.
I have to admit that their QC is as good as non existing, got a SPB207J1 and it went back within 24 hours as it had some issues. But with that being said I have to Seiko Presage watches which I truly love, SRQ025J1 and SPB061J1, amazing time keeping and just wonderful watches. My advice is to buy whatever you might like and try it out, look for anything which might have been missed and if you are not happy just return the damn watch
Still better than Rolex. I don't understand why anyone puts up with their shenanigans. I've also seen misaligned bezels on some of their GMTs.
I don't think Seiko wants to realize, that moving upmarket should mean the quality moves upmarket, as well, not just the prices.
People have been stating that seiko punches above its weight for so long that I think seiko believed its own hype. Thought, 'oh maybe we should just charge more while keeping everything the same' including the marker issue apparently.
Like Hodinkee success went to their head
Low quality tat and always has been
@@jaskey EXACTLY! Your comment NEEDS to be reposted on it's own. Actually, an entire video could be based on it.
Not in this day and age where consumers have low standards
I’ve had pretty good luck with alignments and other quality control issues. What drives me nuts is that they don’t regulate their watches well enough. Spending over $1000 for a watch that loses 15 seconds/day is unacceptable
This is a very fair point: whatever their price, Seiko does not regulate their watch at all.
The whole process is industrialized as much as possible, they only do routine checks
Citizen in term of accuracy is head and shoulders above the Seiko!!
@@ticossbruh my 4r36 is more realiable than my 6r35A dont know why but the latter feels like its russian roulette when It comes to accuracy
I love Seiko - LOVE THEM. As a brand. You are 100% correct. This is silly and borderline abusive on the part of the company. I now buy homages - like that Steeldive Willard you were positive on. Seiko now has a new Prospex Willard that will run you $2,500 USD. I think $90 on AliEx is a better bet. Thanks again for all the hard work - and don't let the haters bring you down.
Agree - cheers! 👍
Fanboyism at its finest
I ended up buying a Tondorino (a sterile Steeldive SD1970 but with no lume on the ceramic bezel, other than a lume-pip, and no UV anti-reflection on the flat sapphire crystal). I then sent the watch to my favourite watch-modder who fitted a genuine Seiko dial, aligned everything perfectly, and regulated the NH35 to +3 seconds per day with no beat error. Then, added a vintage Italian-leather strap. Total cost for everything? About £275. I can hand-on-heart say that it is every bit as good as the new 6105 reissue, and a grand cheaper!
Totally on the button @Nicholas Say and in the same camp regarding superior engineered homages from Steeldive et al.
I read an issue about this new Willard 8L, movement stopped and not winding after 2 days. So even with the higher models, no one is safe with seiko.
What do you call a seiko where everything lines up?
A *Citizen*
Nope. I bought an Eco-drive and the chapter ring was misaligned. Sent it to customer service in Germany, they got it better aligned, but the watch came back with a hour index partially oxidized (looks like it) and dust on the dial and under the glass.
Complained, got no answer.
I love it it’s true that’s why I got away from them and I went with Citizen I got the pro master automatic I bought it for the same price is for a Seiko 100% better than they would ever be everything lines up everything‘s perfect and heirlooms great love them will never go back to Seiko
@@todd344 Their newer citizen models have ridiculously, almost scientifically straight lines. their second hands land on the index everytime. I have the calendier and it's incredible the accuracy.
@@AnaCosta-sq7lo see, every company can screw up
Boom! 😅
I got my $88 USD Steel Dive Willard this week. Everything lines up. 🙄
Thats the way to go if you want this style of watch at the correct price, well done !
@@Winston.S.1984 Guess what, they are using a SEIKO Nh35 in it, ya little fanboy.
@@Winston.S.1984 wait and see it's as good as any Seiko since it's a Seiko movement? Hahaha
@zack oblong that's at least within my tolerance for a $88 watch. I think my Vostok is worse.
@zack oblong lol
the Rolex Root Beer GMT that you reviewed was also misaligned. Its not just Seiko
Quiet you, no one likes to hear the truth. Especially when the mob is in a frenzy.
@@Bob_Smith19 lol
@@Bob_Smith19 Morning Bob, you couldn’t get the Daily Mail and The Sun to print that as a banner headline tomorrow could you?
I've been a Seiko fan for a long time. You are absolutely on point. Quality control is never a laughing matter. Seiko needs to address this.
Seiko's garbage
Seiko is just a mass market brand - I never understood why so many people are cheerleaders for it. I find that Citizen is much better for quartz watches.
Citizen and casio compared to seiko is like rolls royce to fiat... They not only smoke seiko its just a whole different ballpark!
Citizen has serious qc
I love my Citizen Tsuno, great functions, solar power, power reserve indicator, alarm ( not loud enough though), chronograph, sapphire crystal, battery life great, I only charged it once the last year in the sun. It holds time perfectly, I payed around $ 700
But muh hErItAgE
citizen can actually make a decent bracelet too!
I feel like seiko went from actually caring about the customer (skx) to just caring about getting paid and not really caring what they are putting out
Corporations never care about the customer. It’s always been this way and it’s not going to change. Small companies are the ones that care. But as they grow they will eventually stop caring.
it certainly looks like it.
Lol, how delusional. The SKX had terrible quality control, a lacking movement, and very cheap bracelets/straps... All at too high a price point.
The only thing they put any effort in anymore are their King, Pressage and Grand lines and that's it.
SKX had horrible QC !!! It was very known the SKX had massive problems with alignment.
Very good show Jodi, but I think you got it wrong putting this out on a Saturday, it would have made a Great Sunday Roasting!!!
Seiko is priced out of my budget. And now if I had the money I wouldn’t buy one given the qc issues.
I have 6 Seikos, some quartz some mechanical. Never have any issue. But I prefer Rolex. I bought Rolex mostly second hand, often have scars, damaged bezels, time not very accurate and I service them change the the damaged parts ; polished and that service often cost more than US$1,500 and expect to work great for another 10 years. For 1 Rolex, I can buy my entire Seiko collection, and each Rolex service cost can buy me another Seiko brand new. Love my Seiko but Rolex to me is like my "air"; I can't breath without it.
@@andreshultz8638 I seriously prefer Tissot. I have an automatic and it never broke down. My brand new automatic Seiko is going back to get fixed again. I will get another automatic Tissot, but never again another Seiko, not even quartz.
Seiko is no longer the value proposition it used to be. This is coming from someone who grew up with no less than a dozen Seiko. My SARB035 also had a misaligned chapter ring. And it poked me in the eye every time I look at the dial. The 6R15c movement gave out on me within 5 years. I ended up with a cocktail time as a replacement. It’s okay. I think I will get a Hamilton for my next watch. No more Seiko for me either. So hard to say goodbye to a long relationship.
Not unreasonable to service a movement after 5 years. The problem is the watch is cheap enough that servicing costs more than the watch is worth. Or I would have done with my SARB033 and SARX045.
I've had people tell me the bezel "isn't even 2 degrees off, that's very small!". Except 1.5 degrees is the WORST possible scenario on a 120 click bezel and you can't be 3 degrees off. It's a complete joke that these things continue to happen with Seiko, no matter the price.
Really! Hope those people don’t work for SpaceX!!
@@vailmcc Aerospace is one area they struggle to infiltrate
It's like having a misaligned parts on your new car, doors would not close properly because they are fucked up, wipers will swipe over the windshield and steering wheel would be crooked.
Would you be happy to own such crap? I wouldn't
Re-entry into the earth's atmosphere by Apollo craft was within 2.4 degrees, so 2 degrees is not small. I can easily detect far less than one degree of error in a dial, and it is annoying.
@@StaticVapour590That was called British Leyland
You're absolutely in the right for bashing a brand that asks 1.500 USD for a watch with a misaligned dial. Are they completely bonkers?!
tell that to Rolex also...it's quite common to find misaligned rehauts
@@MrMadvillan I don’t but know better than spout shite
They might be on something
“You’ll be back Jodi, you’ll ALL BE BACK! Muahahahhaha” Seiko
What is shocking to me is the fact that Seiko, literally, cannot get things straight, but Grand Seiko goes above and beyond to make sure everything is beyond perfect. Obviously, there is a vast disparity between Grand Seiko and Seiko, but you would think the two would share the common belief in superb quality control since they both come from the overarching Seiko Holdings Corp.
Sadly, even Gs has been slipping lately. I’ve come across a few we issues. The moment they increased production, they’ve had a slight increase in qc issues. Obviously, no where near as bad as regular seiko’s.
Actually, I recently bought a Seiko Presage Porco Rosso Enamel Dial Spring Drive Limited Edition watch with a 37% discount Brand New. The watch is fantastic with no QC issues what so ever. The Spring Drive is identical to the Spring Drive used in Grand Seikos. Finally, it did have a Grand Seiko retail price and seems to have been in the shop for a year before I bought it which led to the huge discount. Maybe due to the Watch Badge Snobs but I don't care because I love my new watch.
I got grand seiko on Amazon.... working very perfectly since last 4 years
GS should just be changed to Credor and halve production. this way the name "seiko" doesn't hold them back. I regularly wear my SBGA407 "skyflake" after 18 months of heavy daily wear, so i'm not a hater... :)
They throw resources and QC at GS, and left Alba and Seiko drymsadly
I haven't bought a Seiko at retail in a few years. The move upmarket while not addressing QC and somehow getting worse at it, made me stop giving them my money. My collection is 90% Seiko, and will always be mostly Seikos. I've just decided to buy pre-owned or vintage Seikos instead. Seiko's back catalog is full of hidden gems, and the 90's and 2000's still had great quality pieces.
last time I get brand new Seiko I sent to service the calibre since the first day I bought haha (pretty sure they changed that calibre instead, it was too abnormally fast)
if you ask which one it is, it's Prospex Save the Ocean Penguin Day
What do you call a Seiko with good QC ?
An Orient...
Yep.
A grand Seiko
Agreed a GS the 1 Orient I tried died on deployment after 2 months...
@@stevebennett7783 Well it was under warranty then.
I'd suggest a Casio W735 Vibe Alarm for military use.
@@edwardfletcher7790 Yeah my Casio F-91W has been on numerous tours as has my Suunto. I thought I'd try a cheap style dive watch but was very disappointed. You are correct it was under warranty and went back for a refund.
I have a lorus, pulsar and orient. It's telling that the qc of their sub brands are better than seiko's!
I know exactly what you mean.
Looks like Seiko have lost their mojo, Baby! ♂️
We can add Wired to that list.
Orient are not a Seiko sub-brand.
@@frazzl they're owned by Epson which is one of the big 3 in the Seiko group. Technically not a sub-brand of Seiko but 6 of one half a dozen of the other.
The QC is terrible. Sadly, as you point out, it's been a thing for a while now.
It would appear Seiko is now a Chinese brand with Malaysian movement.
How long now
In the last month I’ve purchased two inexpensive Seiko’s; a made in Japan SBDY099 Green Tortoise, which lines up perfectly, and a made I have no idea where SNE543P1, which is also perfect.
In the past year, however, I’ve purchased and returned, an SBDC065, a Capt Willard, and a SARX033. All had alignment issues, and all were made in Japan.
JDM used to be considered a step up in quality and desirable, but I’m not so sure..
MAN Jody... I was going to go for one of these... Love the Grand Seiko lite vibes... But thats not an easy fix of it's the dial.... BTW I agree most of the Seiko I have purchased or featured on my channel have had alignment issues. Kind of sad 😭
I own Seiko and Orient watches. I never had a QC problem with Orient. I own a Bambino 36mm and a Ray 2 - awesome watches for less than 200. Seiko on the other hand...misaligned chapter rings are a norm. Loved Seiko, never cared much for Orient - till I gave them a try. Today I would say it is my favourite brand at the entry level
I love my Orients and Orient Stars. I have too many, but zero regrets!
Yes and you can regulate them to 4 seconds a day. Seiko never stay accurate
Orient should go for ISO certification
@@marceldemir7514 I wouldn't say never- the 6R15D in my SARX045 is keeping a consistent +1s/day.
Perhaps the previous owner had it professionally adjusted by a wizard watchmaker, or maybe I'm just lucky.
The F6G42 in my Orient Star keeps +2.7s/day avg, out of the box. Lucky me.
My Orient Kamasu has a misaligned and stiff bezel... And I'm sure I'm not the only one with this issue
I would never pay more than £400 for a seiko for this exact reason, to me they are solid budget watches and nothing more.
exactly! Watches in this price range, like the SARB033/35 were Seiko's strength - well, these times are long gone....
Same here
Orient much better value for money at this price point
Interesting. I just posted a comment before reading yours and we've both maxed out Seikos top value at £400!
I wouldn't take a seiko for free...
Last Seiko I bought I got the AD to show me the watch on video, wasn’t aligned so I got them to order me another. Showed me a video of the new one and it was aligned, then I pulled the trigger. Pedantic I know but it was for a Willard and I don’t want to spend 1k and it be misaligned.
Why it's definitely best to go with a reputable AD, just flat out refuse the watch if it's not aligned. People play with fire when they go with grey imports
Too right
Never worry about being pedantic. I guarantee the vast majority of the business owners would never accept inferior product themselves so if they question you on your efforts then they are being total hypocrites.
I think that you mean that you pulled the plug
Agh, "pulled the trigger". Such a lame phrase. Love the Willard though, hope you "wear it in good health"
I've owned 16 Seiko watches over the past six years and over 40% of them have had minor cosmetic issues that should have been caught by a robust quality control process. The chapter ring alignment is something that Seiko seems to have a hard time getting right. I agree with Jodi -- no more Seikos for me.
Bloody hell Lee. That's a terrible percentage eh?
@@JustOneMoreWatchAnd Citizen will mop up their budget diver market
The fact that there are so many comments in agreement really says something. Listen Seiko. Listen. Thanks for keeping it real, Jody : )
I was gutted when I got the watch of my childhood dreams when it had a misaligned chapter ring and a dust speck. I love my Turtle but... And then seeing Steeldive, San Martin etc with so much better QC and spec for a fraction of the price.
Its absurd someone should report them to the ombudsman
Fake watches have their markers and markings lined up a lot better than Seikos.
He literally said that in the video...😑
Are you serious or joking, that just seems stupid
@@steelsteez6118 🤫I didn’t say “all” and I didn’t say the location of manufacture.
Sad, but often true.
@@steelsteez6118
Did he say ALL fake watches ?
No, I don't think so.
At least seiko are consistent with being inconsistent.
That could be their new advertising slogan :
"Seiko: Consistently Inconsistent"
I've had a few $300ish Seiko, and I haven't gotten myself to buy any of their $1,000 offerings. I've bought more expensive watches (Omega and Oris), but I'm not gonna buy any expensive Seiko sight unseen (online).
@The Insanely Great Apple Channel they are still bad. Orient make better watches in that price range.
Buy it in a shop
@@oscarosullivan4513 problem with shops is usually much higher prices.
@@RM-el3gw A means to justify the ends
That's why Citizen gets my money.
Same here!
Same here! Always fancied a Seiko. Won’t bother now.
A Seiko solar was on the list. I can get bad quality control with a £2 wish Chinese watch.
So Citizen eco drive it is. 👍
same here too.. I stopped buying seiko after I bought their "limited edition" 1000 pcs only to find out later they released the same exact watch and call it international edition 2018 pcs.. And then recurring alignment issues stopped me from buying completely and move to citizen.
@@wainedodd8055 Citizen Eco-Drive is light years better than Seiko solar. It's not even close
This is exactly why I've got plenty of Seiko homages, but no actual Seiko's.
I also…. For example two steeldives….. Seiko NH35 and the bezels line up also!
That’s funny because most seiko watches are homages of Swiss brands
@@MrMadvillan Nope.
Good on you, Jodie. They need to be called out on this. Below average specs, poor QC and a higher cost for new models?! No thanks Seiko
I sold all 5 of my 6R35 Seikos for a Seamaster 300. Im over all the QC issues !
Wise decision
No way, I did exactly the same 😄. Traded 6 of mine towards a 2012 Seamaster Professional. All of the Seiko's had alignment issues. The only ones I've kept are my gen2 monster and my Flightmaster. Hope you enjoy your Seamaster!
Great decision
Yep, same here. Got rid of all of my seikos (apart from an old beater skx013) and got a midsize smp 300 .
bad move..you should have kept the 1 or 2 that had aligned bezels and good timing...sold the other 3, and just bank the money.
It's a case of 'Once you see it, you can't unsee it.' It would drive me mad.
Exactly, once I have noticed an imperfection it's the first thing my eyes get drawn to.
@@chronocommander007 if it is done by the factory it would bother me. If it is a scratch or ding done by myself, then I'm okay with it. Only Seiko I have owned is the GS snowflake, so I cannot speak for their QC.
@@brianhsin678 I've had a few Seiko watches but none within the past 15 years. Way back then i did not find any QC issues.
Please recommend this video to SEIKO.
They won't budge.
As a Japanese, I'd say Seiko is a disgrace to the craftsmanship. I'm not talking about GS in case you are trying to jump on my opinion lul
Thanks for this rant. I have a Seiko monster showing up Sunday. I’ll be ok. I’ll be ok. I’ll be ok. Lol
We are praying mate 🙏
I like how you say that you're cranky, but still come across as cheerful.
Having an argument with you must be confusing!
Ha! Just ask my wife. She hates it.
Alignment issues on a Seiko? No way! 🤣
Again, and again, and again.....
@@JustOneMoreWatch I am modding my amphibia
My SNKL23J1 has misaligned hands, day and date (but the blue dial is georgeous). My SKX 013 has no misalignments at all, runs -8 sec/day unregulated and consistant for a year now. A Seiko certainly is a miss or a hit. Am I ready to spend 1000$ or more on a Prospex Line diver without having to marry the AD’s daughter to make it run right afterwards? I am not so sure. Even though I wear my Seikos proudly.
@The Insanely Great Apple Channel How does Honda relate to this?
@The Insanely Great Apple Channel Toyota must be an exception because they are still the most reliable. Seiko makes watches covering a wide range of price points and the quality will vary accordingly. Grand Seiko is most definitely not average quality.
I've bought and reviewed many quartz and automatic Seikos. Never had an issue.
Likewise, it's a little bit of hysteria here...Disappointing.
I never understood how Seiko is the staple budget brand and Citizen gets so little love. I would take pretty much any Citizen over the Seiko equivalent any day of the week, especially when buying without being able to check the piece myself.
It's because Seiko cranks out classic designs left, right and centre. It's not all about who has the best QC.
Concur about Citizen being just as good if not better than Seiko… just ask folks making a living Diving… I think between both brands Citizen holds lions share of those folks business
6:42 It amazes me how such a glaring issue passes QC on a $1000+ watch. It would've even bothered me on a $70 Pagani Design.
A really bold video! I hope seiko wakes up and gets their QC together...
Was it this bad 30 years ago?, I dug out my old broken quartz panda, everything lines up perfectly.
My 7t32-6g20 from 1999 is a really well made watch. Accurate, reliable, well finished and no alignment issues whatsoever.
Is it a generational shift? 30 years ago, a misaligned bezel would have meant a Seiko worker needing to do the honorable thing... Now days??! Maybe a gentle reminder via a memo.
I agree. Don't buy Seikos if you can't see them with your own eyes first.
Grand Seiko seems to be expanding now. Maybe Seiko has moved over all their best QC to Grand Seiko and left the B Team to do QC at Seiko.
As I've commentated elsewhere the value proposition with Seiko drops off a cliff at the thousand pound point and the competition crowds in, the real issue is the budget watches are poor value toothese days. £250 for a 5?!.....Heloooo San Martin,!
clearly shows that seiko dont intend themselves to be a luxury brand
Only luxury prices
I've got an Omega with a mis-aligned bezel. Even luxury has its QC tolerances!
they have Grand Seiko for luxury watch brand
@@prasetyow4318 It’s ironic that some Swiss brands have better QC and more accurate movements for less money. Who would have thought.
As pointed out Grand Seiko is their luxury brand. Are we going to bash them? Even Seiko’s $1000+ watches are produced in numbers far exceeding some brands total brand production. QC issues are QC issues but most people don’t realize how hard it is to produce an item on a mass scale. Seiko also knows the mass market doesn’t care about the imperfections.
I'm looking at my sub £100 Pagani Design - everything lines up, same with my 8 year old Seiko 5 Sports. I'll be steering clear of Seiko from now on.
I like the idea of Pagani but could never bring myself to wear a blatant rip off of a more expensive watch no matter how cheap it was. My personal opinion and certainly don't judge others who do.
@@stevebennett7783 Yeah I get where you are coming from, but companies have been knocking off from other companies for decades now.
Some say that the Submariner was a knock off of the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms 🤷♂️
Good thing is that 99.9% of the population couldn't care less
@@mickeydee3595 Haha, this is very true 👍
Sad when fake watches are better made than the real thing.
@@Jabber-ig3iw I'll have to take your word on that as I've never bought and never will buy a fake watch.
Why is over $1000 the cutoff? If they're that bad why give them any free publicity at all?
do you know how many brands have QC issues (proportional to watches made)?? Lots..including Swiss watchmakers.
@@algorithm007ify Well I own none of them so stop buying the crappy brands.
Fuck Seiko, go for Certina.
One of my favorite Certina watches is the Double Security Blue Ribbon chrono diver.
I wish for Certina to make the DS Blue Ribbon chrono divers again, same body, same rotating bezel, same dial, same subdials, 1/10 second ETA 251.264, threaded buttons, diferrent screw-on caseback with a turtle shell symbol, Certina DS on the center.
My problem imo with the Swiss alternatives in the price range (Certina, Tissot, Hamilton, Mido,etc.) is that, despite having better QC, their designs are generally less compelling than what Seiko offers. Certina gets recommended a lot and I find their divers to be boring. Just my opinion, though the fact that so many keep going back to Seiko despite their poor QC, makes me think many agree with me.
@@trevbarlow9719 i like Seiko divers, ones from the beginning to the present, as for the chrono divers, the Certina Double Security Blue Ribbon C007.417.11.041.00 & C007.417.11.051.00 are my go to divers.
Snow on the timegrapher is only okay with Vostok, cause it's on brand.
Bostock where the russian winter comes to you
ahaha, yes
Any watch at that price point is slightly defendable
And because a Vostok is about the price of a decent watch strap. That forgives a hell of a lot.
This nonsense of seiko qc being so bad on more expensive watches is ridiculous. Once you get over $1k, you're into the realm of lower tier mainstream Swiss brands, and they tend to actually have decent QC.
@@TechnoLawyer Well put
Yes! Finally! Thank you Jody, this is the truth and maybe if the sales drop, just maybe seiko will start offering the great value they once did.
Nope. They would jack up the price nad rip off their fanboys
@@elvinventucillo4501 yeah, you're probably right... sadly
The Seiko Quality Control are under lockdown. Great to see you back Jody. 😀
This was going on way before lock down
I thought that I was alone in questioning Seiko. I have several of their offerings and have noted that the newer they are the less trustworthy the build. Yet, as Jody notes, the prices are on a steep upward trajectory. This smacks of the Japanese reputation being sacrificed to off-shore builds just to inflate profit. Which works for a while - until customer realizes that they are paying more and getting less. This is what drives the consumer to shop elsewhere. Seiko will either get their act together or be relegated to selling in blister packs on a Walmart display.
I've said before I think Seiko-Epson is having Orient occupy Seiko's old "affordable quality spot," and then trying to elevate Seiko to a mid-level price/quality tier in line with their SARB and Prospex and stuff, but that they were moving the price up first, and quality up second, relying on their brand recognition to carry them through the transition.
But I've been saying that for quite a long time now. When is the QC going to match the new price tier? You're running out of goodwill and time Seiko.
I'd go for a San Martin. Seiko keeps dropping the ball
Yeah Got a Bronze blue water ghost and really really nice watch for the price.
You're definitely not wasting so much with San Martin. That said, I tend to keep away from the PT5000 or the ST2130
...was just about to say the same thing.
When my Willard homage from SM is less than a quarter of the price of a mates Seiko SPB153J 'Willard', runs better and is literally indistinguishable quality-wise, I'd be an idiot to buy Seiko wouldn't I?
With a Sellita inside, a San Martin is way better than a Seiko. San Martin bracelets and clasps are in another league.
@@BoboBloxham
Agreed.
For the price you pay for an SM with anything other than the standard (and bullet proof) NH35, you may may as well go for an entry level Swiss brand.
I might re-evaluate that if SM were to use a Miyota 9 series.
Yep, 100% agree, I just cannot get on board with Seiko anymore for this exact reason. You should not be crossing your fingers when opening the box of a watch hoping you get a 'good' one, or feel lucky when yours all lines up etc. When I buy a watch of any real value, if there is poor alignment etc, regardless of the brand I will return it, because it is just not acceptable, and nothing will change if we just accept it.
Can't you just send it back and get your money back? I know it sucks but I make sure I know the return policy and use it when I'm not happy with a product.
Seiko would get a shock if we all stopped buying their watches.
@@robertlindo8058 They certainly would! It seems nowadays they want to rely on the "casual" watch fan, someone that will like the look of the watch and buy it without paying any attention to the QC. A lot of the long time Seiko fans are turning away from later models for the same reasons we all are. Its just a real shame they still don't seem to care!
Well said! We have to pull through and stop this 'abusive boyfriend' relationship with Seiko. Enough is enough
3:20 Honestly I’m glad you decided to make this video. With a $2,000 price tag and Seiko as the brand, this lack of quality is absolutely unacceptable. I was seriously considering this watch (specifically the SPB221J1) for my next purchase but after what I’ve seen today and on similar videos, unless Seiko gets their stuff together, I don’t know if I’ll ever even buy from this brand again. I just hope this issue doesn’t spread to their other collections. Shame on you Seiko😤😤😤
Buy a Citizen Chronomaster. Takes longer to get, but it's an absolutely flawless watch.
Ooh it's bad... they have QC issues on their 3k + MM300's. This is made in their GS factory. Seiko has become crap.
I just bought a Seiko SPRE55, and of course, the chapter ring is misaligned. but i don't think i can return it as it is a "very minor fault" and not significantly crooked. I googled and watched bunch of Seiko unboxing and review videos, and more than half of them i saw had misaligned chapter ring. which is similar to your experience with Seiko. how come a company with lots of history and reputation let this happen for YEARS ? it is so stupid. i won't buy any more Seiko again. i own bunch of Casio and Timex watches and they have better QC than Seiko, despite being cheaper.
Hear, hear! Their quality is fantastic, when you get a “good one.” But it seems to be a gamble.
I've gambled and lost too many times now mate!
@@JustOneMoreWatch The house always wins! Maybe until now….they can’t win if you don’t show up.
Funny enough I was talking to a friend who's new to the watch world about the Seiko QC issue and he was baffled about such a big brand not being able to sort them selves out. It's a weird thing that we just accept it.
Good point Jason 👉 citizen don't suffer in the same way 😎😎
It's those nice designs....many are willing to turn a blind eye for the sexy reissues... Hopefully Seiko fix this.
I think we've accepted it because so many RUclips watch reviewers have accepted it, and like Jody said, we've treated it as something of a joke. I'm glad a major reviewer is finally saying enough is enough.
@@algorithm007ify i agree their designs are some of the best, no doubt. Unfortunately the "hoping" for a change has been going on for years now.
Casio all the way. For price and quality it's pretty much the best out there
but they dont make automatics...
@@algorithm007ify good point.... however I'm saving for a top end auto (Explorer or Omega Railmaster / Aqua Terra), and my G Shock 5600E and F91W casios are perfect as every day any condition watches.... also incredibly they both have only lost around 2 seconds in 12 months...a cheap automatic won't keep time anywhere near to that...
Seiko will continue putting out this crap as long as their fanboys keep buying. Sakura, Inc. (Japan) sells just about every Seiko in the catalogue. In their terms, they state that they will NOT check for alignment in advance, and; misalignment is NOT grounds for return. Personally, I have purchased 3 Seiko's in 3 separate decades (I am that old). All three had alignment issues. So, it's not a recent thing. As long as people keep buying there is absolutely no incentive for Seiko to do anything at all about it. My last purchase WAS my very last. No way in hell I would pay $210 for that watch; let alone $2100.
I have three Seiko. $500 - $1,000 price range. All of them have dial markers all over the place. There is not a consistent twist such as the whole dial of out square, but just a random hit or miss with placement. A misaligned bezel insert, while unacceptable QC, is of course relatively easy to fix. I too will not but Seiko again.
Don’t blink kids or you will miss Jody changing his shirt!
and dyeing his hair?
I don't know... None of my Seikos bought in shops have issues. I'm starting to think that these problems come with online sellers.
I remember your review of Rolex messing up their chapter ring….maybe Seiko is just following the big R….but yea, their QC is garbage….
I love my SARB017 and I want to buy more Seikos, but the QC scares me off. I'm glad I got lucky with my SARB. I hope they get it together so I fell confident enough to buy more Seikos.
Being a huge Seiko fan I remained in denial for a long time. I was noticing little things and forgave too much up till I bought one of the latest generation 4r36 sports models with a triple whammy. Misaligned bezel, misaligned 6 o'clock marker and hour hand not lining up with indices on the hour. I'm inclined to recommend Orient over Seiko now. My Defender 2, apart from a cheap jangly bracelet, is leagues ahead, with zero quality issues taking into account the price point, which is about the same as the equivalent Seiko. What's slightly irksome is that Seiko own Orient. Maybe they leave them alone to get on with it. 🤔
My advice is if you've definitely set your heart on any Seiko, buy from a shop where you can scrutinise it very carefully before committing. You may pay a bit more but believe me you'll save yourself a lot of hassle over buying unseen from an Internet retailer using generic photos, not of the watch you're buying.
I've sold all my Seiko's except my Samurai - I can find much better quality in the micro brand market and those off aliexpress for a much keener price.
official watch makers of the CCP ....no thanks.
@@algorithm007ify yeh and you have absolutely nothing Chinese made in your household you sad hypocrite
seiko is no longer seiko quality is becoming more and more of quantity !
Hence why so called CHEAP “homage” watches are leaving Seiko in its wake! 🌊 Oh I’m actually wearing my Heimdallr “SKX” now…🤭👍🏼
I've argued this for a while. If someone like Pagani Design puts a little more into their watches in the quality department and they'd eat Seiko's low to mid-tiers.
@@TheRedneckPreppy Spot on! I’ve got several Pagani watches & for the money, what they give is fantastic! I love em!👍🏻
Seiko watches today are made all over the world now and so to expect the same quality of Japan-made Seiko especially that's more affordable than Swiss brands simply is not realistic any longer, when you see Japan movement printed on the dial of a Seiko watch it only means the movement is from Japan, the rest of the watch isn't
I simply wouldn't buy a Seiko that's more than $1,000, if you can afford that you are better off buying something Swiss-made anyway, there are brands like Hamilton, Tissot, Mido, Glycine, Christopher Ward and such that are comparable in that price range and feel much more upscale
Seiko makes some absolutely wonderful watches, but the QC issues, poor timekeeping, and higher prices are just too much.
Every company that manufactures products will turn out a lemon here or there. Seiko expects its customers to take its nonstop stream of lemons and make lemonade. Sadly the Seikoholics rationalize this garbage.
Hope they'll manage QC issues as You mention.. We love Seiko & give them critics for greater good in the future
Btw, recently Seiko released 40 mm Astron Series.. seems they really care Customers advice 👍
Astron and quartz GS is the only two with superb QC watches. Both are made in the same factory as Automatic and SD GS. But hand assembled by different division. And that quartz division still deliver the level of QC like making a 50 piece of limited edition watches.
Thank you Jody for your honest & fair look at seiko anybody can be a fan boy, Casio Edifice quality has got better give them a look?
Casio's Oceanus line is also very nice!
I'm a die hard Land Rover owner...so, that being said...I'm still sticking by Seiko! LOL!!! Regarding both brands...I just love 'em, imperfections and all!
Likewise..the charm overrides the flaws.
This is a fine example of fanboyism.
@@RM-el3gw everyone is a fan of something...even if it's being a fan on not being a fan!
I've been through two of the new Seiko Alpinists, out of Japan. I can't seem to get one that meets its accuracy specs. For a $600 watch, it seems like it should actually tell the time. It's very disappointing. If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have bought a Seiko.
In 2022 the QC issues are going on. Just buy a king turtle (Green version) I really love the watch. I buy it at retail price inside the Seiko official shop in Paris. On 3 watch only one was good for the alignment. But I notice later in the day a little dust speck on the 6 hour marker. It is not really noticeable but a bit annoying for a more than 500 bucks watch. I keep it because I fond of this watch, but for this price it is a lack of respect to the customers. The japan version are maybe better than the international one, I don't know.
Gotta’ agree with you. I’ve got no problem with the minor issues on my SKX, but when I recently purchased the new SPB143 (for just under $1200) and the crown action was poor and was told by the AD that it was “within spec,” I found it hard to believe that was OK, and he refunded my money. It’s not that I’m THAT fussy, but for over a grand you expect a certain quality level. Meanwhile, my SARB 033 in almost every way is perfect. Like I said, I’m with you Jody.
I like Seiko, but I’m not spending over $2000 US on one.
Actually, once you spend over $2000 on one, you get the real good ones (Grand Seiko). The problem lies in the $1000 range
@@OmarZ77 That's not true. One of my GS has slight misalignment on the dial.
@@meowianoverlord4854 that’s weird because I can’t find a single video about GS misalignment. Of course there will be some, but they will be well within tolerances of Swiss manufacturers and even better actually.
@@meowianoverlord4854 Did you send it in to be fixed? Because the problem would be fixed if you did.
@@Bob_Smith19 No, I didn't. I'm already used to level of QC that Seiko or even GS has. It's just expected. Another person that I know, his spring drive GMT got dust in it. If you want perfect QC just move away from Seiko.
Get Vostok GMT, bezel lacking the clicks, lining up perfectly every time 🤣✌🏻
Kinda sad when cheap vostoks can have better QC than an expensive seiko, my vostoks haven’t had any QC problems like the seikos in this video. Of course the bezel on Vostok’s is nothing to talk about, since my scuba dude bezel is held on by a cheap wire spring, instead of a nice clickety click it just make a faint scratching sound 😆
My first automatic watch was a seiko 5 sports which I purchased in late 2020.
It had a lot of issues with the bracelet.
It rattled and was loose and also the first link which sits between the lugs was extremely loose and made sounds.
I sold that watch last year for 30% less than what I paid for it.
And after watching this video , its safe to say that I'd never buy a seiko again.
I bought a Seiko 5 3 years ago that was a total lemon. The power reserve on it lasted less than 7 hours!!!! The winding stem was tiny. So tiny I could barely set the watch. I gave it away almost immediately.
I've been giving Seiko a wide berth. I bought a Steeldive and it's an awesome alternative. Lately I've bought a Glycine and a Hamilton, and even picked up a G-Shock Rangeman.
Bought a Steeldive Sumo, and at 1/4 of the price of Seiko Sumo it is a steal. Everything lines up perfectly, nice bezel action, and better overall than my Seiko Monsters and Turtles.
Combat subs are great
@@zuno555
Steeldive delivers.
I have handled about 20 Steeldive watches in the last year, only one had an alignment issue.
Percentage wise it is not a great score, but much better than Seiko’s score here…
And if you take into account the price difference…
Fwiw Glycine has HORRIFIC CS. Pray you NEVER need it.
Casios offers the best value.
100%
@@djzrobzombie2813 Budget watches mate.
I’ve had two Casio Protreks that lasted 10 yrs and then quit working. Screen going blank, time resetting to TKY time, year resetting to a decade ago etc, etc. No more digital Casio’s for me.
No, Citizen is better.
@@djzrobzombie2813 Bullshit!!
Yeah, I've seen two of the older Shoguns that needed adjustment out of the box. After the fix they were super, but for $1200US it's ridiculous that anything is needed except for sizing. The new white Shogun looks even better but $1400 on rubber? It had better give racing tips, read bedtime stories and be absolutely perfect. I think my Seiko limit is $500 these days.
Seiko has become an embarrassment. No one should buy any of them, even the Grand Seiko, as they don’t deserve any of your money.
Imagine, for a moment, that Invicta decided to do an ultra-premium model for $2,000 and the numbers were misaligned like that...
There would be 0 people in the comments defending it.
I like to think Seiko should be held to at least the standard of a damn invicta. So, here we are.