Melee Controllers Have Gone Too Far
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- Опубликовано: 1 дек 2023
- For years, Melee diehards have modded their controllers, doing everything from cutting notches into the plastic all the way up to replacing the circuit boards inside them, all to find that slight edge.
But the quest to god-tier mod the game and its controllers - alongside the rise of box controllers - has raised an obvious concern - how far is too far? What should actually be allowed in pro play?
Should modded controllers and boxes really be considered cheating - or is the Melee community simply allergic to change?
Hosted by: Dimitri Pascaluta (@DPascaluta) & Colten Gowan (@TheOnlyZoltan)
Written by: Niall McCrossan (@niallmccrossan)
Edited by: Connor Dunn (@ConnorDunn_)
Produced by: Niall McCrossan (@niallmccrossan) & Colten Gowan (@TheOnlyZoltan) & Danielle Rosen (@_DanielleRosen)
Thumbnail by: Bennett Grainger (Insta: @bennettgrainger)
All footage courtesy: pastebin.com/PQwygQbc
Music used under license from Associated Production Music LLC (”APM”).
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Игры
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Maybe if Leffen didn't throw 30% of the worlds supply of controllers into the floor, we wouldn't have this problem.
😂
Based
Comment of the year tbh
We should've listened to Armada's last wish
Hahahaaaahhaa
Its funny to see how challenges from sports have come to esports as well. Hockey for example has gone through a similar debate, albeit a long time ago. Players would modify their sticks to put a curve at the end to allow for better puck control. Players and fans didnt universally love it but it was never outright banned. Same thing with when they changed from wooden sticks to the composite ones they use now. Its totally different than what the game was originally played with but I think it has raised the skill ceiling for those who are truly skilled. As time goes on people will find a way to modify their tools that gives them any advantage, especially in a competitive setting!
exactly, it's just people stuck up in old ways that don't want to accept nor conform to change. Look at Hal in Apex. Controllers in apex have (in my opinion) even MORE of a competitive advantage over KB&M than hitboxes do against gamecube controllers. The community/pros hate how broken controllers are due to Aim assist. So instead of bitching about it, Hal put in the time and effort to get good on controller to prove he's the Apex GOAT this year.
Endyrance running too now. With the the carbon fiber plate inside shoes that retain compression energy and very gently shoot your foot of the ground again with. Making you use 99.6% of the energy needed per step.
Repeat for 40 km and those .4% become huge
PC gamers and other FGC players can use whatever hardware they want. Smash exists in a weird Nintendo fanboy space😮 so I do understand the dedication to original hardware. If all GC controllers were the same, then something like a fight stick would be outside the spirit of the game. But since the Official controllers have no consistency in components, this is a no brainer. You must regulate the specifics of 3rd party controllers , but there is no question that they must allow them.
@@friedsensei I assure you very few Melee players are "Nintendo fanboys", if anything they are some of the greatest haters of Nintendo
I’m so glad another hockey guy thought of this exact example. Well put Evan I fully agree
So glad you mentioned UCF, truly one of the best innovations for this game and a very elegant solution.
ya to bad its slowly becoming out dated and the main team behind it is dead, we should really be using haxs 1.03
@@romantheranger2699 bro they literally just released a new version of ucf (0.84) very recently. what are you even talking about
@@romantheranger2699I think 1.03 is a little too ambitious, but I also it should be seriously considered
@@romantheranger2699IMO 1.03 has excellent diagnosis of Melee’s polling and input issues, but inelegant solutions.
@@calebrobinson6406 instead of considering it people should just start running it until it takes over. if it weren't for the hax leffen video 1.03 would already be universal by now, it just isn't adopted by association. all the stuff you might not like can be toggled off
When it comes to the HitBox I remember distinctly hearing that one of the major advantages of it was ergonomics. As SEVERAL smash bro's players had suffered injuries from playing the game, and that this hitbox offered them a way to play without being in pain from conditions like arthritis
Depends on the iteration. The wasd smashbox was horrendous and is why Hax pushed the b0xx through, but once the b0xx layout and variations of its spacing became standard most controllers are pretty solid.
The current concern is basically from the nerf proposals turning the ergonomic input sequences on the b0xx layout into unergonomic sequences without having particular balance impact to a degree that the "optimal nerfware setup" should be more competitively strong than the hax patch b0xx while having horrendous ergonomics in comparison.
still an unfair advantage
@@LaFlarb What is actually unfair about it? If digital controllers were that much better in a competitive game where they're allowed we'd be seeing more players at top level with them.
In particular, hax patch b0xx has always been nerfed far beyond the bounds the ruleset requires and, again, we're not even seeing sudden domination by cheater digital controllers much less b0xxes.
I'm just not seeing a world where the advantage or disadvantage of choosing a b0xx is so great that it supersedes being the better player in a set. Individual player variation even at similar skill levels just seems to be much higher than controller power variation now that people aren't using real cheater controllers like goomwaves.
@@sunderkeenin if you play a space animal it’s ridiculously easy to do shine out of shield, JC shine, and multi shines compared to trying to do that on a controller for example. Stuff like that is where u have a clear advantage. Like yea the more skilled player will generally win but there are clear cut advantages. Dashing back out of crouch for free is another busted advantage of box controllers.
@@LaFlarb in exchange for a less intuitive controller, having to do rocket science for your less flexible recovery angles, having an explicitly inferior wavedash angle, and having overall inferior DI options(iirc there was good slight DI on sheik specifically), long lockout on pivot utilt among other nerfs if you check hax patch specifically.
F1 didn't do the pivot utilt nerf, for example, and the smashbox is basically actually a cheater controller lol.
There's unique upsides to b0xx, and there's unique upsides to gcc. I'm still a fan of 1.03 to make things more even without removing the uniqueness which makes the controller comfortable to use, but even without 1.03 it just doesn't seem to be a big enough difference to justify making the controller awful to use.
The other big funny people keep forgetting is that the "nerfware" is as far as we can tell significantly more competitively powerful than current hax patch and not a single one of the nerf proposals from the committee disallows making firmware even more powerful than the "nerfware".
The "nerfware" is more about giving digital controller players an awful ergonomic and gameplay experience than about balancing the Melee scene.
I held a large magnet in the nearest room to make jmooks controller explode mid set.
I have a friend (He's not a pro or even trying to be a pro), yet he owns like 15 controllers with countless parts and stuff that he adjusts every time we play Smash.
It's actually mindboggling when you actually watch him talk about it. He even has a 3d printer that he uses to make parts (He says it's an utter disaster trying.
It's nuts how much time and money a person can invest into Gamecube controllers.
Just a note for the editors: Leffen is probably one of the most biased, unreliable sources of information on box-style controllers. I wouldn't base a 14 minute video on his opinion.
Considering he hasn't even won a major since 2019 and has consistently placed lower than top 8 in recent years lol
@@isuck6049 leffen won a major this year and in 2022 so what? Maybe youre confusing him with m2k and armada in this video who retired in 2018 and those video clips are all pre 2019 too.
but regardless. leffen is super bias lol. Heck hax might be part of the reason he hates boxes so bad.
Leffen is a super biased and doesn't deserve any attention about this topic.
@@Firelove7k man, i remember when bait was believable
@@Firelove7k he wants to have an "air stalling limit" so jigglypuff isn't allowed to move around you in the air anymore lol
"Are Melee players allergic to change?" I mean, they still play Melee, so that answers your question.
I used to think the same thing but then I started playing melee and realized that it is built so much better for competitive play with a much higher skill ceiling. And it makes sense because Nintendo was trying to make their newer smash games less competitive and more casual.
lol
Backwards change (i.e. newer entries in the smash series) isn't good change though.
Ntm they actually think the world revolves around them and get so whiny when things don't go their way.
more like allergic to soap
Dan Salvato is a legend, also mang0 has one of the most modded controllers in the scene so take his words with some salt lol
Every Melee pro uses a modded controller, and most of the modded controllers come from the same person. I would take Mango's word over Leffen, the perpetual complainer every day of my life.
Whatchu mean mango has one of the most modded controllers. Unless u just talking bout goomwaves in general?
To be fair, he calls both goomwaves and box controllers cheating.
all the top pros have very modded controllers because you have to at that level
@@chairwoodhe was one of the players who used goomwaves over phobs because he had a direct line to gooms, which is funny because the only one banned now out of boxxs, phobs and goomwaves are goomwaves because essentially they had built in macros
used to be a TO for some melee locals.
can confirm: 2/3 of my gc controllers are from Japan lol
my current one is lol, Just had to buy a new smashu one. I’ve gutted all of my original ones from 2001-02
Man, I love dipping into random communities occasionally to watch a video about a current problem or hot topic. In this case, I'm not even playing Melee, but it's fascinating to see what's going on in their “world” and appreciate the effort, experience, and history involved in all of this. So interesting!
If someone wants to take the time to learn the insane smashbox, more power to them and good for them for saving their hands.
As a longtime player, I actually have slightly more concerns about button remapping or phobs than boxes
But frankly at the end of the day, whatever controller you use, the better player on that day is still almost always going to win regardless
Analog input will always provide more challenges than tactile button presses. Especially in a game where finding a specific coordinate on the analog stick can be the difference between an SD and a ledgedash. Controllers have too much control over the outcome of a match.
@@Materialist39that’s a weird perspective bc a boxx is like remapping every single button on a oem at once
Box style controllers are not good for your hands. They are good specifically for hax’s condition, which has to do with his thumb joint. Any ergonomics specialist will tell you that pronated wrists lead to a higher rate of injury and RSI. The handshake position is best for your hands, and for box controllers to be ergonomic, they should at bare minimum be tented. In their current form, they are worse for your hands and wrists than a gamecube controller
Dan Salvato is not just saying game dev, he's the dev behind Doki Doki Literature Club
melee is a cargo cult at this point
As a 3 year smashbox controller user, it does feel very good to use and there are objective advantages. Though small, they can accumulate in those cutting edge situations. The drawbacks are real too, but situational and in some cases may not matter.
Why do I permanently use my smashbox / crossup box controllers then? It is 100% because of my wrists and hands. I use my hands exhaustively in my daily life, taken further using the switch pro controller daily which left my hand and fingers numb regularly. I developed carpal tunnel and couldn't hold things like milk gallons without quickly exhausting my hands for the day.
Using the smashbox controller turned that around so fast. Yes, I can technically push myself even harder to get the most out of the benefits, making my wrists worse despite the smashbox controller. However instead, I distribute the work across my fingers better allowing me to play with better endurance, which I would otherwise be behind average on due to my wrist issue.
Thank you HitBox Arcade for making the smashbox. Now that my years in smash are over, accelerated by Nintendo's continued apathy towards the tournament scene compared to companies like Valve, Im going on to use it in other games like Tekken 8.
I’m in the exact same situation.
"BOXX CONTROLLERS SHOULD BE BANNED! BOXX USERS SHOULD HAVE ALL THEIR HANDS BREAK RIGHT NOW!" These kinds of people never consider the reason controllers like this exist, disabilities. And they don't consider how yes, these controllers have advantages they also have disadvantages.
I mean I do straight up think they are better than gc controllers. The disadvantages are marginal, like less wavedash length control and things im not qualified to talk about. But yeah the boxx has revitalized the long term careers of some of the scenes most important players and allowed them to continue with the game they love. Box controllers are better than game cube controllers, but lets not also forget that game cube controllers and melees button layout kinda suck for the way melee is played in the modern meta. There needs to be a serious discussion about the standardization of things like z jump, rebindable buttons, and universal box standards if we want this game to go as far as it can into the future. @@Andrew12105
@@jakobhammer3038 right. I remember some considering the goomwave as cheating too but the people who thought they were fine was people who considering the boxx as cheating (despite both being able to do things the oem controllers couldn't do) like a certain popular melee player who I won't name here, I personally find it hypocritical
came for the melee, stayed for the stache
And thus, the stache stays.
@@theScore_Colten LFG
Imagine my surprise hearing how much these guys spend on modded controllers while i play Melee casually (Slippi) using an old PS4 Remote with some stick drift 😂
Yeah this is not a problem for anyone who isnt a pro player like most people cant hit melee tech consistently enough to need a super consistent modded controller
I've been playing melee for nearly 10 years and my controller is basically shit and it doesn't especially bother me. I think it's mostly a personality thing. That and if you're a super elite player, you need a very good controller. 99% of players it's just not relevant.
You should see the goomwave. That controller almost plays the game for you.
until it plays against you and just breaks
Im very pro hitbox style pads but I'm still on the line with how to allow multiple angled inputs for the crazier movement. I don't know how youd really be able to test the code to make sure its compliant, I think the most you could ask is to limit the number of buttons total allowed on the box.
By having approved open source code
There was a hitbox/mixbox issue in streetfighter a while ago bc you could hold forward and back at the same time which would allow you to block while moving or start charge moves earlier because of this iirc.
Yeah it's annoying to fight against a guile using hitbox
no you can't all tourny legal hitboxes have socc, and SF5 and VI have software SOCC that will nullify anything that doesn't have it. EG you plug in an old PS\2 Keyboard you can't press 4-6 at the same time it will = neutral in said game. It's only older games that lack that it.
Tournaments should supply controllers. Everyone gets a built and verifided-to-work controller. No dopey mods, it just works as it should. Simple as. That change would eliminate controller modding as there'd be no point to cheating outside of tournaments where you'd suddenly have a huge disadvantage.
As long as the controller has 1:1 inputs I don’t care how many buttons you put on it or what shape you decide to put it in. Speaking accessibility, controllers being 100% customizable with everything from size and shape all the way down to button choice in size, placement, and type is a huge mega win for gaming at all levels.
If someone is using a non 1:1 by utilizing macros and combo inputs then I do take issue as it brings into question the legitimacy of their inputs as a whole.
Custom notches at specific angles don’t bother me either, if I showed up to a COD tournament and put a red sticker on my screen for sniping am I cheating?
I don't how you can equate a red sticker in the middle of your screen to a controller that gives you easily spammable frame-one invincible moves, which can be used in literally almost any situation. Sure you can spam shine on a normal conch, but the boxx is like training wheels for spacies. Hard tech like perfect Shine OoS, Jc shines, multi-shine on shield, becomes trivialized on a box.
Instead of the useless sticker analogy, Imagine a cod player rolling up to a tournament with a controller that made snaking easier, whilst also giving the precision that a mouse offers. It would be 1:1, but wouldn't a mouse be unfair when playing such a fast TTK fps like COD, when 99% of players are on a controller?
Weird how stuff like XIM was banned in casual console gaming.
@@Domeroto1 XIM was banned because you could actually cheat using it. Like auto counter recoil cheat.
The argument against different controllers shouldn't be "it was harder for me to learn on a sub-par controller, so everyone should have it that hard." I swear that should be called the boomer fallacy.
@@Domeroto1I'm all for a controller that favors spacies
This dude is over here looking like a Fable trader on the way to Barrow Fields.
Worth noting that Dan Salvato of UCF is the same one from Doki Doki Literature Clube! Very fun fact.
oh damn thats nuts W
He's also a top level Yoshi's Story speedrunner
if I see another argument about banning hitboxes let me remind you its a custom keyboard for fighting games so if hitboxes get banned prepare to ban keyboards as well.
What pro uses a keyboard? It's not gonna be banned on slippi. It'll be banned tournaments
@@nuave I know a lot of players younger players at my locals that play with keyboards in other fighting games and personally I played rivals of aether and brawlhalla on keyboard and if I would jump into melee I would most likely also rather use a keyboard for that. So yes there are people who play with keyboard. No pro uses keyboard because a hitbox is just better for it in every way. the people who are on hitbox now have a high chance to just get a keyboard and play with that if hitboxes do get banned.
@@nuave it's a legitimate way to play on the PC version of the fighting games. thats why
@@beamslashc677 brawlhalla is made for keyboard players, smash bros is not
@@beamslashc677 There's very little chance that'll happen with melee because they play on official hardware. So unless you know about keyboards with gamecube ports then I think it's a non issue.
Newer box style controllers are not an issue for the most part. I am sure that there are some that give an advantage but I definitely don't think box/smashbox style controllers are "cheating". It's also a barrier for entry due to the low amount of good gamecube controllers and the amount people are willing to charge for them. It also helps players to avoid damaging their hands, which has happened to some pros in the past due to the executional requirements of the game.
Every time homeboy comes on screen the more evil villain that curly mustache becomes
My power grows daily. First this site, then the internet, and then the world!!
Just remember us little folks when you rule the world
@@theScore_Colten
It's also illegal to remove the trigger springs in the controller for Melee specifically, but not the other Smashes.
I'm okay with box controllers simply because they are products that are still being made, that can still be bought. At a certain point, Gamecube controllers won't be available to anyone, and the playerbase will have to accept that other types of controllers will have to be used instead. Banning any non-oem controllers would be like forcing all tournaments to play the game on Gamecubes with the original Melee disc. At a certain point, it's just not viable to cling to components, hardware and software that you can no longer buy.
My man, they allow you to replace the motherboard and do pretty much whatever the fuck you want to them. It's the goddamn wild west because 99.9999999999% of the smash community have no clue what they're actually talking about. Anyone with basic knowledge of electronics went 'uh oh' the instant they noticed you could replace parts for 'accessibility reasons' or use parts from controllers that don't aren't even gamecube controllers. There's nothing really stopping someone from push button cheating. Considering this has already happened in other games with FAR more knowledgeable and vast player bases... yikes. It's not a question of when someone cheats it's how long have they been cheating.
Coming moreso from other fighting games, and playing them on keyboard, I can see how it's an advantage to have a purely consistent controller. However, Haxx$ made "The Boxx", which intentionally is nerfed for melee, making it a much more viable alternative to the gamecube controller. It's a hard question to answer, but especially in melee, I believe that it makes far less of a difference. Anywhos, FGs are awesome, and you're awesome if you play any of them, no matter your controller
What did they do to nerf it
@@kiranearitachi he did some things like making it impossible to press 1 button to desync your ice climbers, making it take more frames to instant shield job and pivot tilt, and making it so you don't have a perfect full length wavedash. there's a video called "Hax$ Shows Perfect Wavedash On The B0XX" that shows how an unnerfed boxx is
Here is my take, the input devices in any game will evolve over time. As long as there isn't software that presses buttons for you or any macros that allow you to execute combos with one button its not cheating, its still the player making ALL the inputs.
Agreed. If everyone can do it, it’s not cheating. Anybody can cut notches, anybody can use a hitbox. In this sense the hitbox may be more fair than standard controllers with their chaotic randomness.
The smash community can be very elite towards the gcc. Literally take any smasher to a venue hosting a tourney for another fighting game and their eyes will pop from all the diversity of controllers...
not "any" games, arcade games will force you you play on the cab with it's inputs (like over at KAC)
the thing is, mechanical skill is also a huge factor to what makes competitive play... competitive, beyond just making the better decisions, some people can just do stuff that's too hard for others to pull off, and quite often the "mechanical difficulty" of certain maneuvers is directly related to the control scheme
a more popular example of this is where mouse and keyboard is actually banned for console FPS tournaments even if consoles support that input nowadays, because aiming with a stick is simply much harder than aiming with a mouse, and stick aim is something people want to be able to compete in
@@maxtague7278 Anyone can install a piece of software
But if the equipment makes it much easier to make those inputs, something you couldnt do without it, thats a huge deal.
Like if i use a mouse and keyboard in an FPS game im still making all the inputs but its undeniable that i wouldnt be able to do the same things if i was using a controller.
The guy that actually knows what he is talking about. The video editor XD knows everything.
Yes more melee content please!!
If only melee players put this much effort into showering...
what a funny and original comment. !
I think keyboard style boxes with mtx silver switches and extremely short travels are the ultimate.
The solution is simple, standard design specifications agreed by the tournament organizers. Controllers should have standard spring lengths, button sizes, notches, etc.
It's clear the scene will last for decades to come and OEM hardware will be harder and harder to find and players will be forced to use 3 party controllers.
I think hit boxes are fine to a limit. No macros, no dual input, can't do anything that an OEM controller can't do. So buttons that can let a player go right or left are fine, but buttons that let's someone to immediately do up+B attacks with one button are illegal since that's two inputs with one button press.
Accessibility is important so we need hit boxes but there has to be a limit for competitive play
Just because a controller looks OEM does not mean it is. Besides, they can always make two different brackets
Would love you guys to do a vid on the 5 gods of fighting games Daigo, Nuki, Sako, Haitani, Tokido. The 5 Gods of Melee term was inspired by these guys. They all played more than just Steet Fighter too. Not so much these days as there's more at stake but back in the day they were on another level.
Finally a Different Cracked episode! Its always shooters in here...
To get back to the sports analogy, the hitbox vs even modded/hand-crafted controllers seems more like bringing a cricket bat up to home plate at a baseball game instead of a baseball bat. It's radically different hardware.
Every time I think about getting on Smash I remember just how crazy complete it is…
LOL Controller players are threatened of a keyboard just being better they call it cheating.
Damn, and I thought us Halo 2 kids were nerdy with our OG Xbox controllers haha. This is in a whole other league.
There are some things to note. These types of modifications were illegal in the mlg days or the golden era of halo. Same thing for cod. It wasn't until Scuf started throwing money at mlg they were unbanned for cod. And then unbanned for halo years after but this was during either reach or h4 era i forget. maybe even 2010 h3 but scufs didnt really matter since its only h2 and h1 where they would have been good.
But yeah i've seen custom homegrown controllers in the ce and h2 era where they were basically just scuf controllers or had remapping. And of course mlg events weren't every single halo event (world cyber gamers idk about, and then like just big local tournaments or lans). and btw 1/3 of the smash community hates remapping too. Bunch of boomers saying you should get hand pain clawing. The most popular one is remapping the z button (right bumper on 360) to jump so you can jump and aerial without moving fingers which allows for much more consistent frame 1 aerials. I'd say its about the same impact if you remapped x and b to left and right bumper on a 360 controller end of era halo2. definitely more impactful than just mapping only a or only b to right bumper even tho thats still huge in h2.
Halo isn't even a nerdy game, it's the most surface level gaming community next to COD.
As a non competitive smash player who over years has worn through many many original game cube controllers analog sticks. The best solution I have found is to replace the original stick using a Wii nunchuck analog stick. The rubber is connected entirely differently and has extended the lifetime of my sticks by what feels like 10x . Maybe someone finds this helpful.
As for the phob. We do need some work to make them better. I think a lot of the problem comes from builders who dont know what solder to use or using the wrong specs when having the PCBs made. I built my own phob and its been great. It took a while to get it calibrated but once i got that done ive had no issues.
As for Leffen and whatever he says in literally anything just ignore it. He is either 100% correct or 100% wrong. Nothing against him there just that he is not a good source of information or community sentiment.
i mean, if hes 100% correct or 100% wrong, we should DEFINITELY listen to him, lmao. Hes 100% right half of the time, thats insane.
i have a question .. now tbf i have never played mele but i do play a lot of COD MW2/3(lvl 1225) . SO.. i bought the elite 2 controller , very nice controller might i add, but THEN i was like " i should get the scuf " . Holy hell i love this controller . Some say it is cheating because of the advance controls . i was wondering on anyone thought's on this . If you reply thank you if not so be it . Have a nice day .
The remappable paddles on the scuf controller is a problem. If you could hold down a paddle and get the perfect angle every time, it's cheating. Or if you could map a paddle to a series of button inputs, it's *really* cheating. If you ignore the paddles, the controller is fine. However it uses a bluetooth connection, which is actually terrible. Wired controllers have less lag.
Been watching for a long time for the CS content but this melee video finally got me to sub GG
I play on an Xbox controller. I find it hard to imagine switching to a GC controller or whatever would make such a big diff. Maybe if I were a top-tier player, I'd see the difference, but as a very mediocre player, I think focusing on the fundamentals is much more important. I'll worry about controllers when I reach gold rank
This explains so much why smash felt so finicky in it's movements all this time..
Glad Asumsaus got time in the sun here. His videos are my favorite melee content by far
the gamecube controller is the reason i didnt get into melee like that
I hope I one day find a girl that will tell people incredibly flattering stories about me that are as flattering as this videos use of "actually knows what he's talking about"
Its not about whether or not a scrub becomes a god with an unfair controller. Its about whether a top 100 player suddenly becomes a top 25 player. Its not about the lower ranked players and never has been. Giving even a slight advantage at the top level is massive.
Spot on
But everyone can get one and learn how to play with them, right? Part of any competetive scene is adaptation, so i really dont get the hate.
@@thomaskopv2366Well, considering the top-tier, custom-made controllers with all the best mods done (notches, calibrated sticks, cut trigger springs, etc) can cost well over 300 dollars, I'd say no, not everyone can get them. That's if you wanna stick to gamecube controllers, of course, but cheatboxes ain't cheap either.
@@BuljuBut if a top 100 can afford one, i cant see how a top 10 cant
@@Buljubut box controllers are greatly cheaper? So its easier for people to get into in comparison to a custom gc. Boxes can range from 100-200 depending where you buy it from.
In a competitive enviorment everyone should be using the same contoller set just for a level playing field
when all the top players get into their 50s and touching a gamecube controller causes their hands to burn they will want box to be legal
4:40 calling them Smashers gave me a good laugh
2:52 this is the first real person i have ever seen in life to use hair gel in his mustache lol
I'd absolutely never be friends with someone THIS obsessed with Melee.
Considering that they’re no longer manufactured, I wonder if there will ever come a point where the Melee community will move away from GCCs entirely. Like, if in 30 yrs you’ll go to a Melee tournament and see people using an XBox controller with an adapter, or smth like that.
Imagine wasting hundreds of dollars on a controller only to get rekt by some random guy using a standard controller on Pools or Playoffs, oh those are the moments I enjoy the most.
I don't understand people like you. Can you not enjoy the game and play with a good controller? Who cares?? The people with these controllers are not claiming to be God gamers.
@@hobosnake1 Sorry, it is fun because a lot of people don't play well, they lack skill and knowledge but they think the gear would make them better by default, that is why it is really funny to me when that happens.
I honestly don't care what controller people but the irony of wasting hundreds of dollars in a controller to have "an edge" and then some rando owning you with a default cheap one is really priceless.
My GameCube controller came with humbuckers
People DONT REALIZE THAT DIFFERENT COLOR GAMECUVE CONTROLLERS ARE ACTUALLY DIFFERENT SIZES. The silver one is tge biggest most comfortable , purple one is smallest .
this is not true
@@maskless this is def true , go put 2 diff colored controllers side by side bruh
THAT WERE MADE BY OFFICIAL NINTENDO , WATCH U FEEL CRAZY 💯✅
@@masklessthis is true indeed
Modded controllers is 100% a no go but since a lot of the biggest smash players use them they let it slide. I see nothing wrong with Box controllers, they have a higher skill ceiling and def won’t make you a pro overnight.
smash is the only community where an arcade stick used for decades for fighting games, is seen as cheating LOL
We've already implemented ucf so taking it a step further with a patch called 1.03 could be the thing that bridges that gap between controller and box since ideally it would make most gccs function consistently
Somebody is watching a lot of Hax’s videos I see.
1.03 is great in theory but does have issues. Hax put a lot of odd stuff in there and while some changes are good it's definitely motivated by trying to make sure boxxs don't get banned. The other issue is the way it solves some problems is just sort of bad, snapping to max wavedash is bad and you can argue notches do that but our goal shouldn't be to make notches again, those are already dumb. I completely agree that it's stupid that there is a paywall but things are getting a lot more affordable as time goes on and designs get cheaper. Not perfect but any means and I fully understand supporting 1.03 but in my opinion as someone who makes controllers the mod is kinda fucked in a lot of ways. It also wouldn't fix some controllers depending on how scuffed they are.
@@Emphetic @Emphetic honestly i don't necessarily support 1.03 itself just something like it as ideally it would allow boxx players to carry on like usual and just make some things more consistent/possible on gcc. I agree 1.03 isn't perfect and might not be the answer but even as someone who only uses gcc for now it seems like the wrong choice to fuck a bunch of people's controllers bc they're "too consistent." It might be impossible but i think it's worth a shot to try and make gcc more consistent through software as we have already done with ucf than make boxx less consistent
in a competitive scene everyone should be using the same equipment.
Peripheral kings, unite!
That guy saying he's not going to play like it was going to stop everyone else lmao
I can understand leffen argument. Is like having a mouse with recoil scripts. you struggle with recoil, while he beams you across the map with an high recoil weapon.
Friends don't let friends have that mustache. Holy shit.
We all know that if leffen developed hand problems and started using a lever less, the melee community would be supportive of him
I think esports are a great equalizer, where those with physical differences or impairments can compete on equal footing. Use whatever controller doesn't cause you pain to use. Evolution also keeps the game alive.
“Is the Melee community simply allergic to change?”
A game which never experienced the concept of balance changes in its 20+ year life-cycle, where the same 4-5 characters have dominated the meta with little to no significant changes in that meta - a fact that the vast majority of the community is perfectly okay with.
You’re damn right they’re allergic to change.
11:44 this clip cracks me up cause leffens airtime complaint after losing to hbox was minutes after losing. whilst in the vod hbox's complaining started before the match was even actually finished rofl
The smash box has been a thing for years, whys this only coming up now?
Not everybody is built the same and aftermarket controllers are legal for every game I know of, so a controller can only be cheating if it does any of the playing for you through software. Hitboxes are available to everyone so they're not cheating.
He looks like an early 1900s villain about to tie the girl to the train traxs
Nah that Colton guy looks like a 90’s cartoon villain with that nasty mustache
The moment that moustache appeared was the moment I closed the video 🤢🤷♂
What console is smash tournaments played on?
Colton out here looking like a minor One Piece villain.
Outsiders perspective:
Created controller based divisions.
Break down modded controllers into groups by what mods they have.
Boxes have their own division.
wouldnt it be easier if the competition provides controllers that are tested, rated and validated and they can only be used
Golten has the face of a young man but the voice of 60 years old
They should just be different formats based on the technology used.
Why do tournament organizers just not supply all competitors with the same control, to keep consistency even between players? Seems like an easy step to implement.
I mean, if you REALLY wanted to ban them you COULD inspect every player's controller. That's not THAT difficult a thing to do. I'm speaking about tournaments.
NES Tetris decided only OG controllers (Goofy Foot allowed, since it's physically the same stuff, just reversed) because it's such an "athletic" type of Tetris. Eventually they even implemented a legacy category for only "normal" DAS inputs. Seems perfectly reasonable for the Smash world to allow both open categories and one with only stock controllers. (Quality control may require inspections or host provided hardware.)
Competitive melee is such a mess.
I do not play melee; but the UCF is not a cure for shield notches, snap back capacitors etc.
It is ONLY a cure for techniques that work at all or easier on "perfect" controllers. Notches, etc. is completely separate from what UCF aims to fix, it even says so.
I like how Yuko Yurei's in the background
Me too.
Smash players when you have to buy dozens of controllers to Frankenstein a perfect one: "Well that's just smart. It's what you gotta do to get a small advantage"
Smash players when introduced to controllers that are already perfect with no variance and far less hand strain, but a different shape: "That's so unfair!"
So no wonder me and a friend of mine (who played more gamecube than we should have) had favourite controllers. My orange one dying sucked lol.
Controller expert dude was watching some weird shit on his back left monitor.
Setting aside issues of competitive integrity I think its kinda funny that the melee scene of all scenes would be against a controller thats better for your hands.
I think its fair to experiment with controllers just like anything in the world that people compete in you want the best sht for the job and everyones needs is different
Leffen would complain about the air his opponent breaths.
my take technology is constantly evolving. While some may prefer nostalgia with older controllers and arcade sticks, younger generations embrace these changes and make them even better and we only limit yourself with inputs from the past.
I always forget that colten is a Takodachi.
Never forget o7
Just need to change so you think f1 racing will go back to manual gear box ?
Just don't ask any clone hero/YARG/Guitar hero top players for modding controllers.
i mean this might become the hardest hurdle the community has faced because if pros dont like it they are just gonna leave. its not like there is much money to win.