Ymir be like "Hey thanks for doing everything I wanted, here's a third thing for you to do but you better not do it or you'll really piss me off! Here's a map to get there."
Seeing how faithful, compassionate and complex Messmer was, I'd like to believe that he chose to hide Gaius and his wife behind the castle walls, and giving him a plot of land and a small cabin for them to live peacefully and out of curious eyes. Perhaps the fact that we face Messmer before Gaius is another clue as to show he would put himself in front of anyone opposing his decision of hiding his friend. Also, I haven't really pieced all the pieces together but the fact that the Scadutree Avatar is a sunflower is very meaningful. Not only that, but the battlefield is littered with smaller sunflowers and all of them seems to be dying. Sunflower as we know love the sun...light, and always point towards it. But these are not. In fact these are withering, dry and looking down. To me it seems like a clear signal that these flowers, just like the Shadow Realm itself, have been forgotten and cut out from the light. Another important clue pointing towards this that I haven't really seen anyone talk about, is about the veils. Shadowland in my mind does not mean another dimension, I truly believe this land sits in the Land Between to this day, physically, but it's hidden, under a veil. We can see this gigantic veil as soon as we enter the DLC too. The idea is that Marika wanted to hide all of her past, since her path to Godhood and her "Golden age" were forged trough genocide and ugly truths. Thus, once veiled, these lands and all its inhabitands would have been forgotten and cut from the light, explaining the withered sunflowers. I want feedback on this, what do you all think? Am I tripping? 😂
I think you’re spot on. I personally was always under the impression that the land of shadow was still technically there physically, but just couldn’t be reached and/or seen because of the ‘veil’ that Marika placed upon it.
I was about to say, yeah. The Blind Swordsman is also the one who wielded the Flowing Curved Sword, is the one depicted training Malenia in the Prosthesis Wielder's Heirloom, and is accosciated with the Blue Cloth set the Warrior class starts with
I think the reason Gaius wasn't killed was because he wasn't stripped of the grace of gold, he never had it in the first place. Also the sealing tree was planted by messmer's forces, the hornsent grandam says that they veiled our tower in shadow.
Remembrance of Commander Gaius, hewn into the Scadutree. The power of its namesake can be unlocked by the Finger Reader. Alternatively, it can be used to gain a great bounty of runes. Both were as elder brothers to the lion, and both were cursed from birth. In spite of, or perhaps because of this very reason, Gaius was both Messmer's friend and the leader of his men.
Well it's not like his crusade was about those stripped of grace anyway. Marika lied to him after all. Though isn't it funny that he gets killed by the one person who is actually guided by the grace of gold (us the tarnished)
I think the Putrescent Knight is an imitation of Radahn. Radahn can't walk in his post-Caelid form and rides a horse that's too small for him. This formless putrescence took on the shape of the knight of St Trina. Trina being the other half of Miquella, who wished for Radahn to be their consort.
@@gabzsy4924 How can you so confidently say that? Its like you think once one person has a theory its impossible for anyone else to come to the same conclusion.
Personally I like this theory, the dream of what could have been. I do question the horse though, as it feels more like a dream of the Tree Sentinels with the horse attack but I still like the theory.
@@MrOctavian2012 I think the og comment was deleted, my comment was in favour of yours. Someone commented and said he took this theory from a video on RUclips! So I was saying just because a RUclips video had said it, doesn’t mean this guy cant come to the same conclusion
i love how the shadow lands is basically where the frenzied flame, formless mother, mother of the fingers, and the scarlet rot outer god all kinda took root in the lands between
That is why this DLC doesn't make sense. A hidden away realm, meant to be a shadow of the Erdtree ... how does Bayle gain access to it? How does the Frenzied Flames get past the Elden's Beast senses to any influence? And this same applies to Metyr who is then the "sister" of the Elden Beast? Doesn't make sense and Messmer's army should have wiped them out a long long time ago.
@@yrazu05 the Land of Shadow was only hidden/veiled only AFTER Marika arrived and started to make name. Placidusax, and the Faram Azula culture, are MUCH older and more ancient than anything in the Lands Between. Presumably, given that Bayle and Placidusax had a rough battle, that their battle was ancient - a long time ago, when the Land of Shadow wasn’t a “land of shadow”. And, no offence, but you make no sense with the “how does the frenzied flame get past the Elden Beasts senses”. There’s no correlation here. Idk why you brought that up lol. And with Metyr, they’re not “siblings”. They’re stars, birthed and sent by the Greater Will. Metyr and the Elden Beast crash land in the Land of Shadow because it was the place where the Erdtree was born. “The very centre of the Lands Between” - suppressing pillar. Miyazaki also states in interviews, prior to release, that there is a “story reason” why the Land of Shadows isn’t part of the Lands Between. One would assume, with adequate critical thinking, that the Land of Shadow was NEVER ALWAYS a “land” of “shadow”. It was once part of the Lands Between, before even Marika arrived. Hence why you see so much influence that it further had on the Lands Between after it was removed from it… because, well, they were both once the SAME EXACT land. The Frenzied Flame; Elden Beast and Metyr; the Omens; Bayle’s retreat; Mother of Truth; Ghostflame; Glintstone; Scarlet Rot; etc; I could go on all day. Damn near EVERYTHING shows up in the Land of Shadow, because it was never always a Land of Shadow. It was once a part of the Lands Between before Marika came much later in the timeline and removed it from existence. Hornsent Grandam literally tells you that Marika committed atrocities, and then veiled it afterwards. If INGAME dialogue isn’t enough to convince you that all these concepts exist in tandem due to it ALL being connected as ONE once upon a time, then just watch the Story Trailer. The trailer handfeeds you what happened. And if the trailer isn’t enough to convince you, then watch miyazakis pre-release interviews. And if the interviews aren’t enough…. Then, buddy, im afraid you are a fan of the wrong company here😅
@Oracle_Orhyn You can defend and make up lore points to make the lore fit all you want, but it doesn't make sense. Why are there abductor virgins beside the castle in one area? It is supposedly by your statement a sealed secret realm, yet somehow Rhykart has influence. Metyr being locked away again doesn't make sense. Why would the Elden Beast not know, if Marika "sealed" this land. And Meryr is the messenger of the Greater Will and much more important. If Metyr is the Mother of all Fingers, how did they escape this "sealed" realm such that Ranni, Rhadan, Malenia, etc have fingers (as seen in their Divine Towers). How did they escape and choose their path if Metyr was locked? Bayle being here doesn't make sense as well. His wounds are too fresh to be so, especially when this fight was thousands/hundreds of years in the past. If you want to make up lore to try and explain that somehow Placidusax's time manipulation is to blame ... again you're coping and making up lore to make it fit. The Scarlet Rot showing up randomly in the Lands of Shadow betrays Malenia as it's emissary. As the chosen of rot, there was a cult made to follow her, and hence her influence in Caelid and Miquellas tree. A Madness King hidden away means that the Frenzied Flame should have just broken him out. Why isn't there a Three-Finger npc locked away like in the Lands Between. And why hasn't Messmer killed it? Albumerics should not exist, especially Commander Gaius. Albunerics are artifical life and born without grace. What Messmer hated and tells you in the cutscene to his fight. There's other stuff but this is enough for now.
@@yrazu05why would Midra be broken out the outer god of of frenzied flame wants to burn everything back into one why would it waste it’s time with a failed lord of frenzy flame when it can keep goading others to become lord like our character and is it really hard to understand that the outer god of scarlet rot just wants to spread its rot where it can Melania resisted with all her might to not bloom into a rot god Romina embraced it and let it spread where it can in the shadow lands and even the pests of rot grew stronger from it also I don’t understand where you got the idea the elden beast could sense the influences of the other outer gods also for metyer the game clearly states everything that was influenced by the golden order was abandoned by it why would the elden beast do anything else than just protect the order that’s still in place also what lore was being made up from the other poster it’s all in the game if you just take the time to learn it
All these bosses feel like the powers at work in the lands between had used the Shadow lands as a trial run. The bosses seem more chaotic while the lands between bosses seem more controlled.
Had a thought during the Scadutree Avatar segment, what if the avatar was created BECAUSE Miquella broke his rune there? He said the erdtree avatars didn't exist until the shattering, so what if a tree avatars whole existence is the result of powerful runes being broken?
the avatars emerged in the wake of the shattering in order to protect the trees. i believe they come directly from the tree itself all thanks to The Greater Will
19:49 i think messmer knew of marika’s personal revenge There are “clinics” or at lewst beds with guts inside his keep where it seems he attempted to heal or separate the jarred shamans
During the 2nd phase cutscene in the final boss fight, to me atleast, it looks like Radahn is being pulled up by "invisible threads" when he gets back up. This hints to that he is not in control of his own body, and that Miquella is the one "pulling the strings"
Most definitely radahn is being used against his will. Everything points to him being against miquella’s plan, or at least that he rejects being his consort
It should be noted that the noble ghost in the St Trina zone talking about seeing Miquella getting rid of something he shouldn't, is posted directly next to the site where Miquella divested his Love. Which is to me, a critical point of Miquella's journey, as you might expect to divest yourself of everything, love would be included, but it is also the very thing that drives Miquella in his journey to begin with, without the love, he has the potential to be misguided.
@@BBoy4040 right. I didn't say it was a theory. I'm saying he failed to mention that part, and he brought up the noble who is sitting there but made it seem like it was referring to another piece that was divested, when the love is like 10 feet away.
We may very well have seen the living version of the divine beast in the main game. It is likely the lion guardians found chained in various forts. They have the omen horns, deemed divine by the hornsent and the ones in castle Sol even use frost breath. Likely these beast were deliberately captured by the golden order to humiliate the hornsent.
The Water Dancer specifically, which is why her ash of war is called the Waterfowl Dance. But then again, I believe Sam Bram is the same guy who told most of us that info originally lol
Yeah. One of the first things I did on all my other characters after getting my ass kicked in the dlc is respec so they all had 60 vigor. Even with 15-19 scadutree blessings these bosses hit hard.
Everything hits hard asf in this DLC. I started playing it this week, first time blind playthrough, in my only character (lvl 209, ng+4). Literally everything oneshots me despite having 2200hp. I have died more than a 100 times just from random jumpscare enemies (although I'm beating the bosses fairly quick)
garrulous goldmask has a theory that metyr is placidusax's god. mainly in the fact the tail fingers of metyr is similar to placidusax's heads poition, suggesting that placidusax was trying to call his god. furthermore, the nox's godslaying weapon is called a finger slayer blade. the idea is that the only finger god we know of is metyr, and was the proving grounds for this weapon. metyr is wounded by the blade and fled, similar to how she flees after we defeat her. timeline wise, the nox probably took advantage of the duel between bayle and placidusax and attacked metyr, causing her to flee, leading placidusax into depression. ymir probably attacked us in order to test his new strength as the "new mother of fingers", like how we always have that mob in mind to test a build we respecced in or a weapon we wanted to try. and lastly, seeing as how the cathedral ymir is in is named after the god it was likely built or used for, the cathedral of manus celes likewise confirms that ranni's moon god is named celes
To be fair that's definitely a good comparison to make between Placidusax and Metyr. I guess it's not entirely clear whether the god fled first or Bayle attacked first. Would be good to uncover more evidence on that. Maybe Bayle had simply grown tired of the arrogance of Placidusax. And I guess since Metyr is ancient it makes sense she'd have reigned over other lords pre Elden Beast/golden order.
Metyr was the first daughter of the greater will and took the form of fingers, Celes was the second daughter of the greater will and took the form of the Elden Beast
metyr is not a God. you don't get the God Slain message when you beat her, only the Legend Felled message. Keep in mind when you kill promised consort Radahn, it explicitly says God Slain.
I have a theory that Marika is the one who defeated Metyr and took those small...strings? in trailer. Maybe those were the means by which Marika communicated with Greater Will and call Elden Beast. I base my theory based on Metyr's back fingers that look broken. Maybe Marika severed the connection and took it for herself.
Not to mention that in the trailer we see Marika pulling the golden strings out of the body of something.. and if u look closely Metryr has a giant hole on her chest.
@@DarkSpells87 im pretty sure she pulled those strings out of the corpses of the hornsent by the Gate of Divinity. Like they used jars and shamans to have criminals become saints, which ties back into their worship of the crucible
The elden beast is explicitly the elden ring itself, the elden ring depictions in farum azula and placidusax being explicitly described as elden lord suggest that the elden ring and thus the elden beast are at least as old as the beginning of the age of the dragons, long long before Marika was even born.
@@playmsbk Elden Ring that was present during time of dragons is clearly not the same as Elden Beast version. Godfrey would not call himself the first Elden Lord if those were the same. I believe Placudisax version to be the one that existed during the time of Methyr. Elden Beast type of ring seems a lot smaller in comparison and it is also stated that Placudisax's lord left the known world. This is also enforced by the pose that we meet Placudisax using that is similar to when 2 fingers try to comunicate to the Golden Order. Ancient Dragon version of Elden Beast clearly is no longer present.
Great vid, like many others I got caught up in just playing and beating the DLC without knowing the full lore and motivations of the bosses. For that I've always relied on lore explanations like this, awesome work!
I think it's a missed opportunity for Ranni not to make an appearance at the end of the DLC if you had finished her questline. Two Empyreans and their consorts dukeing it out to determine who will control the future.
It's possible Marika's words allowed a loophole for Messmer to leave Gaius alive, if she did say "Stripped" of the grace of gold like he does that would not include Alburnaurics who could never had any grace to begin with
Messmer is almost certain to be the firstborn child of Marika and Radagon, him and Melina being the secret first generation of demigods. He has the red hair and is born with an affliction like his siblings, his apparently being that he was born with an unholy fire within that a base serpent used for lunch. Obviously, a lot of missing lore here, like who Messmer's father really is, why he, Malenia, and Miquella are born afflicted at all, and just what Marika's original sin really was. Perhaps something with Eiglay, the blasphemous serpent that enthralled Rykard? Maybe Messmer is the reason Rykard was attracted to the serpent in the first place. Lots of connections can be drawn, but none have concrete evidence. As for the crusade, my understanding is thus: Messmer's serpentine nature was originally sealed by Marika, and she loved him dearly. Messmer grew up within Leyndell and experienced something of a happy childhood, because it is canon that he and Gaius were both as elder brothers to Radahn. Eventually, though, the base serpent couldn't be contained, and so Messmer had to commit to a "flight from the Erdtree," taking his knights, golems, army, and closest friends and allies with him to the neighboring Land of Shadow, that way he wouldn't be accused of blasphemy by the Golden Order. Then, in a two-birds-one-stone move, Messmer enacted vengeance against the Hornsent for the atrocities they committed against Marika's kin, the shamans. I believe Messmer was fully aware of what the Hornsent did to his mother's family, and he was fully on board with burning them all. Like his armor says, "Direct your maledictions, your ire, and your grief towards me alone." As for the Hornsent people as a whole, there's nothing to suggest that any of them were against the practice of whipping the shamans and stuffing them into jars with criminals in order to make saints and purify sins, as you said, and so, with an entire people on board with this horrific practice, I say Marika and Messmer were justified in their extermination. For the relationship between mother and son, it is tragic. Marika *loved* Messmer, that was why she sealed the base serpent and raised him. This love is what made Messmer willing to take on the crusade, become the villain, be sealed in the Land of Shadow, and erased from the story we get in the base game. Messmer sealed off the whole Hinterland with a statue that of Marika that could only be opened with a specific gesture, O Mother, and he placed Tree Sentinels there to guard the Shaman Village. Marika did *not* abandon Messmer in the Land of Shadow, though. Something happened that we can only speculate on that caused her to shatter the Elden Ring and become imprisoned in the Erdtree. She couldn't free her son because she was locked up too. I have a theory for the Shattering that is tied to Metyr, but it would take too long to post here right now. In short, Messmer is the beloved son of Queen Marika that undertook the mantle of "evil" in her name after his affliction couldn't be contained, and incinerated the Hornsent people for their crimes against the shamans. He was sealed away with the rest of the Land of Shadow because Marika had to save face as goddess of order, and was unable to come free him because she was imprisoned herself for the Shattering, therefore she did *not* abandon her son. However, Messmer never knew that, and would never know that. The poor boy really died thinking his beloved mother that he sacrificed everything for left him to rot.
that's why I don't understand that this youtubers seems like villainizing Messmer ffs. Lmao. I know he is but you know why. But again, what can I say if this guy even mentioned that "Malenia fend off the god of rot". Aight, these are overcooked takes and lemme just watch.
I haven't seen anyone mention this, perhaps the whole idea of the flesh of shamans meld harmoniously with others could hint at how Marika and Radagon became one. My Theory is that they were two different people that meld together and became one per Marikas shaman flesh.
In the base game I finished it with 11 remembrances. Imagine a DLC giving me the same amount of content with 10 remembrance and 1 optional boss that isn't a remembrance, however it should be. Thanks Sam for the movie length lore video!
It can be argued that Bayle's heart essentially acts as his remembrance. If dragon heart consumption wasn't a thing, his heart would likely just be a remembrance
@@SamBram yeah basically ..smart move on their part..because god damn I dont know what engine they using but its about time to change it and not make another game on this engine they using now 😭
@@mathewdyffryn8693 This engine is not bad, you want talk about shit engines look no further than Bethesda still using the same engine from Oblivion smh
Oh Messmer knows the backstory about Marika and the Sharmans, thats why hes protecting her village and has the jars in Shadowkeep trying to nurse them. Always makes me laugh how Hornsent and Grandam want "revenge" like dude you guys brought it all on yourself i cant even blame Marika for what she made Messmer do to you guys. Also the "affair" is most likely referring to Marika working together with the Fingers to create the Erdtree.
Bro genocide is never ok, there were presumably so many innocent hornsent that had nothing to do with bonny village and the potting rituals that got brutally killed by messmers army
@@mydrillasanjay5397 jar rituals were basically a huge part of their culture, so i won't really blame Marika for being angry at all hornsent. Her hatred towards Omens, misbegotten and Albinaurics was unjust tho
There’s a theory that the putrencent knight is the skeleton of radahn cuz it has no feet bones and is the kinight (consort) of the other half a miquila
I also read a theory that it’s actually a horse skeleton and that it’s leonard (radahn horse) tbh both of these theories are kind of goofy but other than those the putrescent knight kind of got nothing going on lore wise. He’s just a pile of shite who drank grape juice and now wants to kill you
The fact that the Melania and Radahn battle cutscene shows Malenia SPEAKING (albeit hard to notice) before this DLC came out and finally revealing what she said is amazing story planning and telling.
@@edmx760 kinda crazy to think about. He wanted to marry his half brother but he said no. So he sent Melania to kill him and she failed. Then he waited for a tarnished to do it while miquellesting Mohg to use him and give radahns spirit a new body he could then control and make him marry himself
I am not sure where, but Myazaki said that the lore told in the DLC wasn't invented for it, but existed already when creating the base game. That's why some things fit very nicely.
Radahn probably wasn't too thrilled to be brought back to life until he sees the tarnished that killed him during the festival and thinks, "Time for round two!"
In regards to Gaius and Messmers relationship, i think they're actually good friends. Messmers dialogue says "those striped of the grace" he's specifically referring to Tarnished
@@launchbase4944 No...but Messmer was _specifically_ sent to the Shadow Lands, by Marika, to commit genocide against the Hornsent as revenge for what they did to her people/Village; with the secondary objective to kill all those "stripped from the grace of gold". Messmer being so loyal and dedicated to following his Mother's orders, whilst retaining degrees of his humanity by using those loopholes to keep his friends alive, is prolly why he kept followers so dedicated to him.
8:45 The Twin Moons are the Full and Dark Moon, both seen in the Moonlight Altar late into Ranni's quest line. You can get sorceries for each individually from Rennala and Ranni. Also, Rennala's Carian scepter isn't a sword... It's a scepter. Probably the best sorcery catalyst for high int builds.
@@joelmichaelviado1226 Good point. I forget about Lusat's because I just never saw the cost increase as worth the benefit. Although, at this point I use the Prince of Death's Staff since I've long since acquired enough faith to make that worth it. And because I'm one of those jerks that sometimes loves to spam Ancient Death Rancor.
I want to point out that in the carian royal family there is a tradition of giving a sword to your spouse, but usually it the carian princess giving the sword, but it seems backwards here with messmer being the one gifting a sword to rennala instead.
Maybe thats why she's so obsessed with him, in order to try to seal the alliance between the Golden Order and the Carian family, Messmer good boy that he is and aware of that tradition and gifted Rellanna the sword but perhaps unaware that the tradition is one of romantic gesture. Or perhaps he could've done that too emotionally trap her there too but honestly considering how caring he is in the lore I doubt that last part
The divine beasts are the lions you see in the main game. They look exactly like the dancing lion, have similar moves, have elemental attacks, and have horns shaved down on them. What would be more brutal to turn a divine beast of your enemy into a glorified watch dog that is chained.
@@unknownd5679 Yes they are two men in a suit, but they “divine beasts” are the lions that you see in the main game like at Radahns castle and Godricks. They dancing suits the two men use are based on them. Those lions are holy to the Hornsent. They are used basically as just guard dogs now.
@@WeAreTheReapersy’all got it backwards. What happened in the land of shadow preceded the lands between so really the Divine Beast, which was channeled thru 2 sculpted keepers, serves more as an ancestor with the lions being descendants with trace amounts of their divine crucible connection.
A lot of misinformation is passing on this video page I could ignore. I think it’s because the video is not well enough informed. So yes there are two horned race inside the lion head but it once was a divine beast. Mesmer was left there by Marika prior to the events of you coming to the lands between. Where he slew all the divine beast in vengeance for what the horned tribe did. All of this is prior to the shattering. We know this because Marika had 3 different spouses and each spouse delegates the time. Grandma can call the soul of the divine beast back into the skull because she’s an empyrean. She’s lived for thousands of years because this shadow of erdtree events start with Marika taking the throne to become a God with Godfrey as her consort and she has Maliketh take destined death to take revenge on the horned race. Because Godfrey is a tarnished and becomes forsaken she takes a new husband but before that mohg and morgot are born with the curse of the omen, the horned grandma (you met here) cursed them. Marika then becomes disgusted because of the horns of her new children, locks them up in leydell and take on her third spouse (ik im skipping over details but it’s too much to type) Radagon. With Radagon she has two children Miquella and Melania who were free of the curse of horned due to Radagon but then ranni steals destined death and kills Godwyn the Gold and the shattering occurs. Hope that helped with timeline
I was saying Mohg was under the influence months ago lol. Everything in the game and advertising for the DLC basically confirmed Miquella having the ability to capture people's hearts
@@TAZMASTA40 no its not? He's in the deep root depths. It even says in game that mohg stole miquellas cocoon from the haligtree, and you can see the place where the cocoon was.
Messemer absolutely knew about the treatment of the Shaman by the hornsent. He has a clinic in his shadow keep and you see a few jar people in beds resting.
In retrospect it’s pretty cool that Miquela’s great rune allows one to resist charm, and he was one of the only Demi-gods not “charmed” or effected by an outer god and looking to create an order for one, he in fact wanted to create an order untouched by any outer gods
messmer did also crusade in the lands between. the impaled giants at the peak were his doing, judging by the spear tips. this brings to question any campaigns led by radagon too, i guess, since they're both red-haired leaders. when messmer journeyed into the land of shadows under marika's order, his existence in the lands between is erased and his deeds were probably reattributed to radagon instead. that's what messmer's followers accepted being erased, and might have been seen as heroes for doing so. rellana for example, wasn't shamed for following messmer, but was sent off caringly by her sister with the gift of rennala's hair. i also think messmer is very kind to his followers. he accepted the idea to convert a gigantic portion of the keep into a library that would have made seath cream his dragon pants. i don't think messmer ignores rellana either. after all, somebody's gotta teach her how to imbue her sword with messmer fire. the knights who betray messmer were likely erdtreee loyalists. they believed that serpents are traitors, not knowing their boss keeps serpents as pets. they recognized a hypocrisy in messmer, not knowing that it's actually marika's. building the storeroom is probably messmer's first faltering of faith. he was supposed to raze hornsent culture to the ground, but he kept secrets that would've led to a god that rivals marika. this is followed by the decapitation of marika's statues, which could have been messmer as well, seeing how some of these statues are more accessible to him rather than the rebels. messmer is the lands between's shadow hero
Also Messmer has a section of the shadowkeep where hes trying to nurse the Sharman jars. Trying to heal or maybe just give them comfort? Also the fact that he imprisoned the traitors and morned for his lost instead of killing them. He seems loyal and kind hearted but willing to do anything for that loyalty
The only large statues of Marika that are not beheaded are the ones in Messmers boss arena. Wouldn’t make sense for him to have beheaded all of them except the ones right next to him
I dont' think messmer decapitates the statues, I think his soldiers deface them. I do not think his followers are happy they're stuck there but are still absolutely loyal to messer who more or less seems like a good guy burdened with his mother's anger and terrible power.
Regarding Gaius, I dont think its a contrivance that he is an albinauric AND friends with Messmer. I have two ideas, 1.) Messmer states those STRIPPED of gold shall perish, Gaius never had the grace of gold and was born outside of it entirely and so Messmer might have been referring to the Tarnished specifically 2) Albinaurics are cursed to fade away and die as you stated, perhaps that was good enough for Messmer since they are fated away anyways. That and they might not have viewed albinaurics as life necessarily and more as automota or tools, getting Asimov vibes from Messmers friendship with Gaius in that context
Another thing that might connect Melina with Messmer is her golden eye/seal that actually changes in the cut scene of the Lord of Frenzied Flame ending when she swears to destroy the Tarnished.
16:46 I think Original Sin refers to Messmer’s flame: it can be used to burn the Scadutree and therefore the Erdtree too just like the Flame of Ruin, plus Messmer could have losed control of the Serpent and would have become a menace so after he did her bidding with the Crusade she abandoned him and hid him in the Shadow Land. At least this is my take on his lore
seeing how the putrescent knight's skeleton is very similar to a horse's (big long ribs, long limbs, curvy neck), i really think that this is a horse skeleton riding on its own fleshy self
34:33 I think there might be a connection between the two tree avatars, mainly because the erdtree avatars appeared after the Elden ring was shattered and the scadutree avatar seems to be connected in some way to miquella’s shattered great rune. It’s possible that the shattering of a great rune at this specific area is what caused the scadutree avatar to emerge.
15:12. Does this not look like she's pulling strands of hair out of a snakes eye? We also find a random shed skin of a snake near the O mother gesture in bonny village.
Hey man, love your content, I've seen all your cyberpunk videos atleast once. I really like this particular soundtrack you've used in many of your videos like the end of the top 5 sidequests video, can I know where to find it?
30:01 I would imagine that since he specifically uses the word “stripped” when speaking to us about those removed from the grace of gold he means it literally, which would make tarnished as well as marika’s enemies the ones he’s hostile to. However albinuracs are completely born without it, and not by marika’s doing. It’s possible that messmer took pity on gaius or saw he was still devoted though graceless and let him live.
I think the god of the Hornsent is a god of weather not the elements because typically fire is one of the core elements and not only is it absent for the Lion but the Hornsent resent fire in many forms. Whereas lightning, blizzards and wind all associate back to the weather.
I wonder if the hornsent always despised fire or if they stopped using it after Messmer. Gonna be looking for any evidence of the hornsent using fire now. But yes, I think divine God of the weather could be more accurate. Others have suggested it's just the crucible which I think could also be the case but I think there's most likely some form of conscious god behind it too
Some people mentioned it, but i believe the Putrescent knight is actually Radahns and Leonards body Thematically, it makes sense for Radahns body to be there. Miquella only needed his soul, so he dumped the body in the fissure along with the part of himself he doesnt need (St. Trina). Also, Radahns body defending Trina parallels Radahn serving Miquella As to how it couldve got there, it could've washed up there. Radahn died on the shore, so he might have been carried by the waves to the fissure.
it may be important to note, but Miquella and Godwyn were very close before Godwyn's death of his soul at the night of black knives. The sword Golden Epitaph, has a darker mood now saying essentially, 'Godwyn, please die a true death' was Godayn the original target for Miquellas consort? now that hes in a perpetual state of undeath, he cannot be sent to the shadow realm. so radahn was his 2nd option. perhaps in this case Godwyn chose to be Miquella's consort, hence why they were so close.
I don't think so. I mean, Miquella only needed Radahn's soul. Godwyn's soul is dead. Which means he can place Godwyn in Mohg's body and call it a day, but he doesn't.
A note about the moons: We've scoured the entire game for evidence pointing to the moons being actual sentient outer gods in a similar way that the formless mother is or the rot goddess, etc, but have found nothing. The only implication(that there is a general consensus for) is that they ARE simply celestial bodies that have power of some sort that can be unlocked if you can understand it, similar to the primeval current.
Really like your videos. The tempo is fast paced and still fresh. A lot of other videos will talk soooo slow (which isn't a bad thing most the time). I just wanted to compare the pure amount of information in videos just as long or even longer. You got a sub.
If everything dead finds it's way to the land of shadow. That means Marika most likely removed the rune of death from the elden ring to stop the dead from going to the shadow lands. Probably explains why the scadutree look so disheveled. If it's a counterpart to the erdtree then it would stand to reason that it drew power from the souls of the dead. Only thing I can't put my finger on is why the scadutree leaks sap while the erdtree is dry and hollow.
@ 45:30 Malenia didn't seal away an ancient god of rot, her mentor did. The Blind Swordsman was the one who later taught Malenia the river fowl dance and how to use the power of flowing water techniques to quell the rot within her. It's also symbolic of how still bodies of water (such as the lake of rot) stagnate, where as flowing bodies of water such as rivers will erode and wash away impurities over time. This is an easy mistake to make as the blue dancer charm in isolation could indicate Malenia yes, but taken with other items that are related to this character it paints a different picture. Refer to: the Blue Cloth Amor set; the Flowing Curved Sword; the Curved Sword Talisman; the Prothesis-Wearer Heirloom.
i feel like maybe ymir thought that Metyr would end up dying there and leave the Microcosm behind, seeing how the Greater Will hadn't sent a message to her in a long time, and expected us to maybe bring it with us and wanting to defeat us to have it perhaps?
One thing you might've missed. The description of the Golden Epitaph is the following "A sword to commemorate the death of Godwyn the Golden, first of the demigods to die. Infused with the humble prayer of a young boy; 'O brother, lord brother, please die a true death'" This might say that Mohg is the backup body. Godwyn would've been the original target had Ranni not do what she did. As for why Miquella can't use Godwyn in his current state, since the body is still alive, I'd imagine it will "reject" Radahn's soul
Godwyn wouldn't have been a target for that cause he had all the time in the world to ask but didn't. If that was the case Miquella would have had Godwyn in his memory not Radahn. Plus if he had screwed over Godwyn, the Godwyn, you'd have seen some death faction shennigans in regards to him and there were literally none. That and Fortisaxx would have hunted his ass to the ends of the earth if he had anything to do with Godwyn's demise. no course of his power seems to work on things that were dead, if that were the case, he'd just have use that connection to reach the realm of shadow, the land of the dead.
@@KingofAwesomness14 No you got it wrong. Miquella doesn't want Godwyn's soul in Mohg's body. He wants Radahn's soul in ANYONE'S body. Miquella still wants Radahn's SOUL. As you know, we never know if Radahn ever say anything but if Malenia had to bring him down to send his soul to the realm of shadow, we can assume he's either not interested or refused Miquella's proposal. Godwyn was the first to die but his death was not a true death because only his soul died but the body still lived, as per my statement, and due to that Miquella's plan could not proceed In game, Radahn and Mogh are the earliest actual demigod you fight. Both accessible after hitting Altus. You don't need to fight Renalla or Godrick. Even if you do, they're not even demigods. Renalla you don't even kill and Godrick is so far down the line of succession his blood is too diluted.
I don’t think Mohg was the backup body from Goldwyn, but I do think it’s possible Goldwyn was Miquella’s first choice for consort. We see him in statues at the Haligtree and Miquella tried first to resurrect Godwyn’s soul at Castle Sol during a ritual of the eclipse that failed. I think Ranni wanted to herself be the God of her dark moon and needed to shed her Empyrean flesh. Someone, someway, somehow she learned of the ritualistic killing with the rune of destined death to kill her in body only but she would also need another to be killed in soul alone for the ritual to work. She learns of Miquella’s plot and him wanting Goldwyn as his consort. So Ranni chooses Godwyn as her target out of convenience sake as she would’ve known getting anyone too close to Miquella risked them being enchanted. Miquella puts Godwyns original body in a cocoon representing rebirth attempts the ritual at castle Sol and fails. He comes up with a new plan that would allow him the bridge to the shadowland. Mohg takes Miquella and the cocoon(we see him carry them both separate in the intro for the base game). Miquella tricks Mohg into thinking that if he gives Godwyn his tainted omen blood it could somehow save him and make Godwyn Mohg’s consort. Notice how Knight Leda does not call the corpse in the cocoon Miquella or Kindly Miquella or anything like that, she simply calls it the withered arm. Now, Miquella needs only to wait. For the death of Godwyns body finally through Mohgs poisoning. However this kills only one part of Godwyn as through the death blight he has many copies of his flesh that have been warped by the death root. The death of this body allows the bridge to be opened to the shadowland as we learn that all things in death are drawn there. We kill Mohg allowing Miquella to have a new body for his new chosen consort Radahn. Mohg never knowing Miquella’s promise of the greatest warrior in the golden order becoming his consort was a manipulation. Miquella enters through the withered arm and the NPCs in the DLC follow in his footsteps doing the same. They enter the realm of shadow and continue following Miquella as he divests himself of his flesh. They follow him until we break the rune and break the enchantment so this band of warriors comes to an end and succumbs to infighting as they all have different motivations.
@@ariaangela3455 you were right, i just watched some videos of it and realized that most of the previous content would have involved far more of Godwyn then Radahn. Why would a compassion loving God want a war general when an item description literally states that Miquella wanted an eclipse to bring back Godwyn. So i will concede on that one, you made the better and more informed point.
I only wish that in the final fight against Miquella and Mohgadahn if you had followed Ranni's quest you could summon her for the battle. It seems clear to me that her ending is the canon one since it's the only ending that has a quest line that runs arguably across the length of the whole game and has tie ins to essentially every part of it. It's also the best ending as it starts fresh, having cast aside the Golden Order and everything that started it or was started by it in favor of something new.
I'd expect Orion a little sooner than that. I'd say we'll see the first trailer at least in the next 4 years, and the game will likely drop in 7 or so years. Unreal Engine 5 and the whole new style of development they're working with is going to really make things more efficient, especially if they pull a Yakuza and stay in Night City and just build upon the great foundation they already have. I think that's much more likely than another 13 year wait for a whole new city or something.
In the end, Marika is playing 4D chess here by bringing us, the tarnished in the game and ruining everyone's plans, freeing herself and killing her pet beast. She also made us resist Miquela's charm, at least besides the last fight.
Another theory I could make for melina of all the countless others made over the years is this: Melina’s hair color is neither really red or gold as would indicate her being a direct child of marika, but more so the default brown color of newman’s we see when creating a character. She uses a weapon that’s a different variant used by the black knifes who are newman woman, and can cast a incantation that’s closes counter part is only found in the shaman village. Which is run by a matriarch leader that goes by the title “grandmother.” In other words, minus marika - melina is last shaman newman in the lands between. Being hidden away as a infant when the hornsent rounded up the last of the shaman. Only to be later found by the new god marika, where she adopted her and took her with her as she created the minor erdtree incarnation as a goodbye to their home. And where messmer got a iris of grace to seal the abyssal serpent, melina got a iris of occultation (her frenzy flame “gloam eye”) to hide her from the grace of gold as means of protection. And until the start of the base game, she was stuck inside the shadow realm till miquella made a way in and out with his meddling. And she calls marika mother not only as her adopted daughter, but due to their culture which is most likely to denote parental figures.
maybe im misinterpreting what you say because my english is not perfect.. isnt melinas hair somewhat pink- ish?(ofcourse until the ending scene where she changed completely) also melina is referred as messmers sister and that they share a similiar purpose in kindling something? so wouldnt it mean that melina is her direct daughter?
In the Files St Trina is the LOVER HALF OF MIQUELLA , like Markia and Radagon. And a microcosm or microcosm is a small universe gateway you can even use it as an attack as a universal bomb or a gateway. And Plad only got caught bc he was off guard 😂 and Bayle still lost basically
31:10 Doesn't Gaius scream something at you about not letting you escape when you first walk into his arena? I think he was at that back gate presumably to cut off the escape of (and get revenge on, if fought after Mesmer) the infiltrator of the Shadow Keep.
@@SamBram Yeah, none of the wiki sites have much about it, so take my word on it with a grain of salt... I was busy being gored by a boar at the time! 🤣 But yeah, I'm fairly certain he says something like "You'll find no escape here". I'll have to wait until my NG+8 run to find this out, apparently. Fortunately, things aren't going to get any harder for me. 😅
With Romina, Empyreans are a concept for the two fingers and Greater Will. Nothing states that other, opposing, Outer Gods had a similar system and so Romina could have indeed fulfilled a similar role as an Empyrean to the sealed rot god
I'm a firm believer that Ranni's path is the only "good" one when it comes to the outter gods and Marika's children. She's the only one who wants to leave the world to its own devices without any godly influence. The running theme with all gods in the game, outter and otherwise, is that they think their own way is best and they just puppet along everyone and everything to their whim. Ranni refuses to be a puppet to fate or any outter god and instead wishes to leave the world behind to work itself out.
@@SamBram Nah I think you went hard enough to get the idea across without stating it like it's fact. I had just never considered the possibility of her support being more nefarious in nature but it totally checks out. Wish we had more to go off with Saint Trina's lore, though
I got the impression that Messmer is the result of the "affair" and "betrayal" spoken of in the DLC trailer. That somehow this first union with Radagon, or some other entity we don't know, was part of an elaborate scheme to seek revenge on the horn-sent and ascend to godhood. We know from Miquella during the DLC there is an elaborate process to entering the divine gate including stripping pieces of yourself. So what if truly Radagon and Marika were different people but were "melded" (like the jars) and Messmer is the result making Messmer both the keeper of the Serpent and the First Sin. Not sure how it fits together, but its a thought.
Ymir be like "Hey thanks for doing everything I wanted, here's a third thing for you to do but you better not do it or you'll really piss me off! Here's a map to get there."
That did be how it was though
Yes that is how he give us the power of middle finger
More like "Good... That tangled mess has been dealt with, now one more loose end to finish"
@@lz9275 "he killed a demi-god? Good, we have a chance let's kill him!"
megabrain moment
He got possessed by Metyr because he ate too many finger shrooms
Seeing how faithful, compassionate and complex Messmer was, I'd like to believe that he chose to hide Gaius and his wife behind the castle walls, and giving him a plot of land and a small cabin for them to live peacefully and out of curious eyes. Perhaps the fact that we face Messmer before Gaius is another clue as to show he would put himself in front of anyone opposing his decision of hiding his friend. Also, I haven't really pieced all the pieces together but the fact that the Scadutree Avatar is a sunflower is very meaningful. Not only that, but the battlefield is littered with smaller sunflowers and all of them seems to be dying. Sunflower as we know love the sun...light, and always point towards it. But these are not. In fact these are withering, dry and looking down. To me it seems like a clear signal that these flowers, just like the Shadow Realm itself, have been forgotten and cut out from the light. Another important clue pointing towards this that I haven't really seen anyone talk about, is about the veils. Shadowland in my mind does not mean another dimension, I truly believe this land sits in the Land Between to this day, physically, but it's hidden, under a veil. We can see this gigantic veil as soon as we enter the DLC too. The idea is that Marika wanted to hide all of her past, since her path to Godhood and her "Golden age" were forged trough genocide and ugly truths. Thus, once veiled, these lands and all its inhabitands would have been forgotten and cut from the light, explaining the withered sunflowers. I want feedback on this, what do you all think? Am I tripping? 😂
I think you’re spot on. I personally was always under the impression that the land of shadow was still technically there physically, but just couldn’t be reached and/or seen because of the ‘veil’ that Marika placed upon it.
The am I tripping is so real lmao 😂
I love the messmer idea you said. Hiding his friend.
Call it wishful thinking
Sounds like a good theory to me
I could get behind this!
It was not Malenia who sealed an ancient god.
It was her master. The one teaching her the water fowl move which she uses to leach hp infight.
I was about to say, yeah. The Blind Swordsman is also the one who wielded the Flowing Curved Sword, is the one depicted training Malenia in the Prosthesis Wielder's Heirloom, and is accosciated with the Blue Cloth set the Warrior class starts with
I think the reason Gaius wasn't killed was because he wasn't stripped of the grace of gold, he never had it in the first place.
Also the sealing tree was planted by messmer's forces, the hornsent grandam says that they veiled our tower in shadow.
it's not as if the hornsent ever had grace either though.
@@launchbase4944you sure about that?
@@launchbase4944 yeah but he was specifically sent there to kill them
Remembrance of Commander Gaius, hewn into the Scadutree. The power of its namesake can be unlocked by the Finger Reader. Alternatively, it can be used to gain a great bounty of runes. Both were as elder brothers to the lion, and both were cursed from birth. In spite of, or perhaps because of this very reason, Gaius was both Messmer's friend and the leader of his men.
Well it's not like his crusade was about those stripped of grace anyway. Marika lied to him after all. Though isn't it funny that he gets killed by the one person who is actually guided by the grace of gold (us the tarnished)
I think the Putrescent Knight is an imitation of Radahn. Radahn can't walk in his post-Caelid form and rides a horse that's too small for him. This formless putrescence took on the shape of the knight of St Trina. Trina being the other half of Miquella, who wished for Radahn to be their consort.
@@gabzsy4924 How can you so confidently say that? Its like you think once one person has a theory its impossible for anyone else to come to the same conclusion.
@@harrybetts4450 they literally were presenting their thought process that led to this conclusion. Only one shutting down the theory crafting is you.
Personally I like this theory, the dream of what could have been. I do question the horse though, as it feels more like a dream of the Tree Sentinels with the horse attack but I still like the theory.
@@MrOctavian2012 I think the og comment was deleted, my comment was in favour of yours. Someone commented and said he took this theory from a video on RUclips! So I was saying just because a RUclips video had said it, doesn’t mean this guy cant come to the same conclusion
@@MrOctavian2012 just to clarify I too think this is a brilliant theory
i love how the shadow lands is basically where the frenzied flame, formless mother, mother of the fingers, and the scarlet rot outer god all kinda took root in the lands between
Yeah but I wish they would have covered the gloam eyed queen more instead of just leaving it an open thread
That is why this DLC doesn't make sense. A hidden away realm, meant to be a shadow of the Erdtree ... how does Bayle gain access to it? How does the Frenzied Flames get past the Elden's Beast senses to any influence? And this same applies to Metyr who is then the "sister" of the Elden Beast? Doesn't make sense and Messmer's army should have wiped them out a long long time ago.
@@yrazu05 the Land of Shadow was only hidden/veiled only AFTER Marika arrived and started to make name. Placidusax, and the Faram Azula culture, are MUCH older and more ancient than anything in the Lands Between.
Presumably, given that Bayle and Placidusax had a rough battle, that their battle was ancient - a long time ago, when the Land of Shadow wasn’t a “land of shadow”. And, no offence, but you make no sense with the “how does the frenzied flame get past the Elden Beasts senses”. There’s no correlation here. Idk why you brought that up lol. And with Metyr, they’re not “siblings”. They’re stars, birthed and sent by the Greater Will. Metyr and the Elden Beast crash land in the Land of Shadow because it was the place where the Erdtree was born.
“The very centre of the Lands Between” - suppressing pillar.
Miyazaki also states in interviews, prior to release, that there is a “story reason” why the Land of Shadows isn’t part of the Lands Between.
One would assume, with adequate critical thinking, that the Land of Shadow was NEVER ALWAYS a “land” of “shadow”.
It was once part of the Lands Between, before even Marika arrived. Hence why you see so much influence that it further had on the Lands Between after it was removed from it… because, well, they were both once the SAME EXACT land.
The Frenzied Flame; Elden Beast and Metyr; the Omens; Bayle’s retreat; Mother of Truth; Ghostflame; Glintstone; Scarlet Rot; etc; I could go on all day. Damn near EVERYTHING shows up in the Land of Shadow, because it was never always a Land of Shadow. It was once a part of the Lands Between before Marika came much later in the timeline and removed it from existence.
Hornsent Grandam literally tells you that Marika committed atrocities, and then veiled it afterwards. If INGAME dialogue isn’t enough to convince you that all these concepts exist in tandem due to it ALL being connected as ONE once upon a time, then just watch the Story Trailer. The trailer handfeeds you what happened. And if the trailer isn’t enough to convince you, then watch miyazakis pre-release interviews. And if the interviews aren’t enough…. Then, buddy, im afraid you are a fan of the wrong company here😅
@Oracle_Orhyn You can defend and make up lore points to make the lore fit all you want, but it doesn't make sense.
Why are there abductor virgins beside the castle in one area? It is supposedly by your statement a sealed secret realm, yet somehow Rhykart has influence.
Metyr being locked away again doesn't make sense. Why would the Elden Beast not know, if Marika "sealed" this land. And Meryr is the messenger of the Greater Will and much more important. If Metyr is the Mother of all Fingers, how did they escape this "sealed" realm such that Ranni, Rhadan, Malenia, etc have fingers (as seen in their Divine Towers). How did they escape and choose their path if Metyr was locked?
Bayle being here doesn't make sense as well. His wounds are too fresh to be so, especially when this fight was thousands/hundreds of years in the past. If you want to make up lore to try and explain that somehow Placidusax's time manipulation is to blame ... again you're coping and making up lore to make it fit.
The Scarlet Rot showing up randomly in the Lands of Shadow betrays Malenia as it's emissary. As the chosen of rot, there was a cult made to follow her, and hence her influence in Caelid and Miquellas tree.
A Madness King hidden away means that the Frenzied Flame should have just broken him out. Why isn't there a Three-Finger npc locked away like in the Lands Between. And why hasn't Messmer killed it?
Albumerics should not exist, especially Commander Gaius. Albunerics are artifical life and born without grace. What Messmer hated and tells you in the cutscene to his fight.
There's other stuff but this is enough for now.
@@yrazu05why would Midra be broken out the outer god of of frenzied flame wants to burn everything back into one why would it waste it’s time with a failed lord of frenzy flame when it can keep goading others to become lord like our character and is it really hard to understand that the outer god of scarlet rot just wants to spread its rot where it can Melania resisted with all her might to not bloom into a rot god Romina embraced it and let it spread where it can in the shadow lands and even the pests of rot grew stronger from it also I don’t understand where you got the idea the elden beast could sense the influences of the other outer gods also for metyer the game clearly states everything that was influenced by the golden order was abandoned by it why would the elden beast do anything else than just protect the order that’s still in place also what lore was being made up from the other poster it’s all in the game if you just take the time to learn it
All these bosses feel like the powers at work in the lands between had used the Shadow lands as a trial run. The bosses seem more chaotic while the lands between bosses seem more controlled.
I feel it's most just the main god in elden ring is order and shadows is specifically filled with those cast out of that order.
@@Umezete Island of Misfit Bosses.
U mean, more BITCH MADE, by Markia😂😂
Had a thought during the Scadutree Avatar segment, what if the avatar was created BECAUSE Miquella broke his rune there? He said the erdtree avatars didn't exist until the shattering, so what if a tree avatars whole existence is the result of powerful runes being broken?
the avatars emerged in the wake of the shattering in order to protect the trees. i believe they come directly from the tree itself all thanks to The Greater Will
They do indeed seem to be guardian spirits to the minor Erdtrees, much like the ulcerated tree spirits
Yx chi
I need major help in this dlc! I can't find anything I just want to fight some bosses heeeeelp
@@jamesnunley3527just go to either of the two massive legacy dungeons which are both like 5 mins away from the first grace lol
19:49 i think messmer knew of marika’s personal revenge
There are “clinics” or at lewst beds with guts inside his keep where it seems he attempted to heal or separate the jarred shamans
Just gonna say as a mostly deaf viewer, I greatly appreciate the caption availability. Some creators don’t care, and yours is appreciated
RUclips is pretty good at figuring out timing, all I had to do was upload my script. Very glad to hear you found it useful!
During the 2nd phase cutscene in the final boss fight, to me atleast, it looks like Radahn is being pulled up by "invisible threads" when he gets back up. This hints to that he is not in control of his own body, and that Miquella is the one "pulling the strings"
Most definitely radahn is being used against his will. Everything points to him being against miquella’s plan, or at least that he rejects being his consort
Hour long of one of the most relaxing dudes in the game? Lets fucking go
It should be noted that the noble ghost in the St Trina zone talking about seeing Miquella getting rid of something he shouldn't, is posted directly next to the site where Miquella divested his Love. Which is to me, a critical point of Miquella's journey, as you might expect to divest yourself of everything, love would be included, but it is also the very thing that drives Miquella in his journey to begin with, without the love, he has the potential to be misguided.
That's hardly even a theory, the game outright tells you that. Hell, St. Trina tells you that.
@@BBoy4040 right. I didn't say it was a theory. I'm saying he failed to mention that part, and he brought up the noble who is sitting there but made it seem like it was referring to another piece that was divested, when the love is like 10 feet away.
When I first saw that chalice. My brain imminently went "Wait, is that the Lord vessel? What is that doing here?" 😅
We may very well have seen the living version of the divine beast in the main game. It is likely the lion guardians found chained in various forts. They have the omen horns, deemed divine by the hornsent and the ones in castle Sol even use frost breath. Likely these beast were deliberately captured by the golden order to humiliate the hornsent.
Malenia is not the blind swordsman who sealed away the God of Rot. The blind swordsman was Malenia's tutor.
The Water Dancer specifically, which is why her ash of war is called the Waterfowl Dance. But then again, I believe Sam Bram is the same guy who told most of us that info originally lol
I wish the dlc added new dialog and alternative rewards to things in the base game based on your progress through the dlc
Love the way this video is structured. Narration was very clear, and editing was great! Props 💯
Props to you for beating the DLC with THAT low vigor AND Fia's 5% health debuff lol
Yeah. One of the first things I did on all my other characters after getting my ass kicked in the dlc is respec so they all had 60 vigor. Even with 15-19 scadutree blessings these bosses hit hard.
@@私はクソな中国人です i think after 19 blessings they dont hit hard. wear harder armour.
@@deathandrebirth-y8x on ng+ 8 they hit hard as fuck
@@私はクソな中国人です i dont play ng+8 but i doubt the developers balance for that.
Everything hits hard asf in this DLC. I started playing it this week, first time blind playthrough, in my only character (lvl 209, ng+4). Literally everything oneshots me despite having 2200hp. I have died more than a 100 times just from random jumpscare enemies (although I'm beating the bosses fairly quick)
garrulous goldmask has a theory that metyr is placidusax's god.
mainly in the fact the tail fingers of metyr is similar to placidusax's heads poition, suggesting that placidusax was trying to call his god.
furthermore, the nox's godslaying weapon is called a finger slayer blade. the idea is that the only finger god we know of is metyr, and was the proving grounds for this weapon.
metyr is wounded by the blade and fled, similar to how she flees after we defeat her. timeline wise, the nox probably took advantage of the duel between bayle and placidusax and attacked metyr, causing her to flee, leading placidusax into depression.
ymir probably attacked us in order to test his new strength as the "new mother of fingers", like how we always have that mob in mind to test a build we respecced in or a weapon we wanted to try.
and lastly, seeing as how the cathedral ymir is in is named after the god it was likely built or used for, the cathedral of manus celes likewise confirms that ranni's moon god is named celes
To be fair that's definitely a good comparison to make between Placidusax and Metyr. I guess it's not entirely clear whether the god fled first or Bayle attacked first. Would be good to uncover more evidence on that. Maybe Bayle had simply grown tired of the arrogance of Placidusax. And I guess since Metyr is ancient it makes sense she'd have reigned over other lords pre Elden Beast/golden order.
@@SamBramIf I was Bayle, and I knew Placidusax was trying to call in some action from Metyr, I'd be tearing it up too.
Metyr was the first daughter of the greater will and took the form of fingers, Celes was the second daughter of the greater will and took the form of the Elden Beast
@@Shtummyyywhere did you hear about the elden ring being the second daughter? Just curious.
metyr is not a God. you don't get the God Slain message when you beat her, only the Legend Felled message. Keep in mind when you kill promised consort Radahn, it explicitly says God Slain.
I have a theory that Marika is the one who defeated Metyr and took those small...strings? in trailer. Maybe those were the means by which Marika communicated with Greater Will and call Elden Beast. I base my theory based on Metyr's back fingers that look broken. Maybe Marika severed the connection and took it for herself.
Not to mention that in the trailer we see Marika pulling the golden strings out of the body of something.. and if u look closely Metryr has a giant hole on her chest.
And if radagon did have kids with Marika before Godfrey he’d probably be the one to defeat metyr allowing marikas ascent
@@DarkSpells87 im pretty sure she pulled those strings out of the corpses of the hornsent by the Gate of Divinity. Like they used jars and shamans to have criminals become saints, which ties back into their worship of the crucible
The elden beast is explicitly the elden ring itself, the elden ring depictions in farum azula and placidusax being explicitly described as elden lord suggest that the elden ring and thus the elden beast are at least as old as the beginning of the age of the dragons, long long before Marika was even born.
@@playmsbk Elden Ring that was present during time of dragons is clearly not the same as Elden Beast version. Godfrey would not call himself the first Elden Lord if those were the same. I believe Placudisax version to be the one that existed during the time of Methyr. Elden Beast type of ring seems a lot smaller in comparison and it is also stated that Placudisax's lord left the known world. This is also enforced by the pose that we meet Placudisax using that is similar to when 2 fingers try to comunicate to the Golden Order. Ancient Dragon version of Elden Beast clearly is no longer present.
Sam does Cyberpunk AND Elden Ring content, hell yes, two of my fav games
Great vid, like many others I got caught up in just playing and beating the DLC without knowing the full lore and motivations of the bosses. For that I've always relied on lore explanations like this, awesome work!
Absolutely love your cyberpunk content, so stoked to see you making vids on my favorite game of all time now
I think it's a missed opportunity for Ranni not to make an appearance at the end of the DLC if you had finished her questline. Two Empyreans and their consorts dukeing it out to determine who will control the future.
We all know who wins
Dolussy ftw
It's possible Marika's words allowed a loophole for Messmer to leave Gaius alive, if she did say "Stripped" of the grace of gold like he does that would not include Alburnaurics who could never had any grace to begin with
Messmer is almost certain to be the firstborn child of Marika and Radagon, him and Melina being the secret first generation of demigods. He has the red hair and is born with an affliction like his siblings, his apparently being that he was born with an unholy fire within that a base serpent used for lunch. Obviously, a lot of missing lore here, like who Messmer's father really is, why he, Malenia, and Miquella are born afflicted at all, and just what Marika's original sin really was. Perhaps something with Eiglay, the blasphemous serpent that enthralled Rykard? Maybe Messmer is the reason Rykard was attracted to the serpent in the first place. Lots of connections can be drawn, but none have concrete evidence.
As for the crusade, my understanding is thus: Messmer's serpentine nature was originally sealed by Marika, and she loved him dearly. Messmer grew up within Leyndell and experienced something of a happy childhood, because it is canon that he and Gaius were both as elder brothers to Radahn. Eventually, though, the base serpent couldn't be contained, and so Messmer had to commit to a "flight from the Erdtree," taking his knights, golems, army, and closest friends and allies with him to the neighboring Land of Shadow, that way he wouldn't be accused of blasphemy by the Golden Order. Then, in a two-birds-one-stone move, Messmer enacted vengeance against the Hornsent for the atrocities they committed against Marika's kin, the shamans.
I believe Messmer was fully aware of what the Hornsent did to his mother's family, and he was fully on board with burning them all. Like his armor says, "Direct your maledictions, your ire, and your grief towards me alone." As for the Hornsent people as a whole, there's nothing to suggest that any of them were against the practice of whipping the shamans and stuffing them into jars with criminals in order to make saints and purify sins, as you said, and so, with an entire people on board with this horrific practice, I say Marika and Messmer were justified in their extermination.
For the relationship between mother and son, it is tragic. Marika *loved* Messmer, that was why she sealed the base serpent and raised him. This love is what made Messmer willing to take on the crusade, become the villain, be sealed in the Land of Shadow, and erased from the story we get in the base game. Messmer sealed off the whole Hinterland with a statue that of Marika that could only be opened with a specific gesture, O Mother, and he placed Tree Sentinels there to guard the Shaman Village. Marika did *not* abandon Messmer in the Land of Shadow, though. Something happened that we can only speculate on that caused her to shatter the Elden Ring and become imprisoned in the Erdtree. She couldn't free her son because she was locked up too.
I have a theory for the Shattering that is tied to Metyr, but it would take too long to post here right now.
In short, Messmer is the beloved son of Queen Marika that undertook the mantle of "evil" in her name after his affliction couldn't be contained, and incinerated the Hornsent people for their crimes against the shamans. He was sealed away with the rest of the Land of Shadow because Marika had to save face as goddess of order, and was unable to come free him because she was imprisoned herself for the Shattering, therefore she did *not* abandon her son. However, Messmer never knew that, and would never know that.
The poor boy really died thinking his beloved mother that he sacrificed everything for left him to rot.
that's why I don't understand that this youtubers seems like villainizing Messmer ffs. Lmao.
I know he is but you know why.
But again, what can I say if this guy even mentioned that "Malenia fend off the god of rot".
Aight, these are overcooked takes and lemme just watch.
I haven't seen anyone mention this, perhaps the whole idea of the flesh of shamans meld harmoniously with others could hint at how Marika and Radagon became one. My Theory is that they were two different people that meld together and became one per Marikas shaman flesh.
and thats why Radagon couldnt go back to Rennalla because he was "absorbed" by Marika?🦊🦊
In the base game I finished it with 11 remembrances. Imagine a DLC giving me the same amount of content with 10 remembrance and 1 optional boss that isn't a remembrance, however it should be. Thanks Sam for the movie length lore video!
They basically made Elden Ring 2 and hid it in Elden Ring
It can be argued that Bayle's heart essentially acts as his remembrance. If dragon heart consumption wasn't a thing, his heart would likely just be a remembrance
@@SamBram yeah basically ..smart move on their part..because god damn I dont know what engine they using but its about time to change it and not make another game on this engine they using now 😭
@@mathewdyffryn8693 Worked pretty well all round for me. Though the ray tracing causes big fps drop which to be fair should not be a thing in 2024
@@mathewdyffryn8693 This engine is not bad, you want talk about shit engines look no further than Bethesda still using the same engine from Oblivion smh
Oh Messmer knows the backstory about Marika and the Sharmans, thats why hes protecting her village and has the jars in Shadowkeep trying to nurse them. Always makes me laugh how Hornsent and Grandam want "revenge" like dude you guys brought it all on yourself i cant even blame Marika for what she made Messmer do to you guys. Also the "affair" is most likely referring to Marika working together with the Fingers to create the Erdtree.
Bro genocide is never ok, there were presumably so many innocent hornsent that had nothing to do with bonny village and the potting rituals that got brutally killed by messmers army
@@mydrillasanjay5397 yeah genocides and wars are gonna perpetuate a lot more the more vengeful people are allowed to be. In fiction and reality
@@mydrillasanjay5397 jar rituals were basically a huge part of their culture, so i won't really blame Marika for being angry at all hornsent. Her hatred towards Omens, misbegotten and Albinaurics was unjust tho
Messmer was a real one
The exact massive piece of the story I desperately needed 😢 What a great job! Thank you so much!
There’s a theory that the putrencent knight is the skeleton of radahn cuz it has no feet bones and is the kinight (consort) of the other half a miquila
That'd be cool. And he'd finally gets to ride his steed properly(ish)
I also read a theory that it’s actually a horse skeleton and that it’s leonard (radahn horse) tbh both of these theories are kind of goofy but other than those the putrescent knight kind of got nothing going on lore wise. He’s just a pile of shite who drank grape juice and now wants to kill you
The fact that the Melania and Radahn battle cutscene shows Malenia SPEAKING (albeit hard to notice) before this DLC came out and finally revealing what she said is amazing story planning and telling.
@@EliteInExile didnt catch that, what was it she said?
@@lol_phillip6072 ‚Miquella awaits thee, o promised consort‘
@@edmx760 kinda crazy to think about. He wanted to marry his half brother but he said no. So he sent Melania to kill him and she failed. Then he waited for a tarnished to do it while miquellesting Mohg to use him and give radahns spirit a new body he could then control and make him marry himself
@@edmx760 oh and thanks brother 😭🙏
I am not sure where, but Myazaki said that the lore told in the DLC wasn't invented for it, but existed already when creating the base game. That's why some things fit very nicely.
Radahn probably wasn't too thrilled to be brought back to life until he sees the tarnished that killed him during the festival and thinks, "Time for round two!"
I didn’t know you covered Elden ring! Always loved your cyberpunk videos, can’t wait for more Elden ring videos! 🔥
I love that you missed the jump to get hildes ashes. Made me chuckle
I was so mad at that at the time. The platform doesn't seem wider to begin with but is actually thinner than that!
@SamBram don't worry I also missed the jump on the first attempt haha
In regards to Gaius and Messmers relationship, i think they're actually good friends. Messmers dialogue says "those striped of the grace" he's specifically referring to Tarnished
hornsent were not stripped of grace as far as I'm aware
@@launchbase4944 No...but Messmer was _specifically_ sent to the Shadow Lands, by Marika, to commit genocide against the Hornsent as revenge for what they did to her people/Village; with the secondary objective to kill all those "stripped from the grace of gold". Messmer being so loyal and dedicated to following his Mother's orders, whilst retaining degrees of his humanity by using those loopholes to keep his friends alive, is prolly why he kept followers so dedicated to him.
8:45 The Twin Moons are the Full and Dark Moon, both seen in the Moonlight Altar late into Ranni's quest line. You can get sorceries for each individually from Rennala and Ranni. Also, Rennala's Carian scepter isn't a sword... It's a scepter. Probably the best sorcery catalyst for high int builds.
2nd best. Highest scaling is still Lusat’s but with downside of higher fp cost. No downsides its the regal scepter.
Lusats has higher scaling but it costs 50% more, and since it's not that big of a jump in scaling you're losing out on overall damage
It’s a sword, sheathed. A scepter can function as such and still be so.
@@Zythryl Where is it said that the Carian Royal Scepter is a sheathed sword? A scepter is an ornamental staff, rod, or wand used by royalty. 🙄
@@joelmichaelviado1226 Good point. I forget about Lusat's because I just never saw the cost increase as worth the benefit.
Although, at this point I use the Prince of Death's Staff since I've long since acquired enough faith to make that worth it. And because I'm one of those jerks that sometimes loves to spam Ancient Death Rancor.
the opening cutscene for dancing lion is the hypest thing ive ever seen
I want to point out that in the carian royal family there is a tradition of giving a sword to your spouse, but usually it the carian princess giving the sword, but it seems backwards here with messmer being the one gifting a sword to rennala instead.
Fitting. The Land of Shadow is a land that’s essentially an inverse to its tangential counterpart - the Lands Between
Maybe thats why she's so obsessed with him, in order to try to seal the alliance between the Golden Order and the Carian family, Messmer good boy that he is and aware of that tradition and gifted Rellanna the sword but perhaps unaware that the tradition is one of romantic gesture. Or perhaps he could've done that too emotionally trap her there too but honestly considering how caring he is in the lore I doubt that last part
This video is so awesome! Got yourself a subscriber for this and will be sharing with friends!
Huge probs for this summary, you have a great voice for listening to all this lore !
I LOVE your Cyberpunk videos and we are truly blessed to have you making Elden Ring lore videos now too!
The divine beasts are the lions you see in the main game. They look exactly like the dancing lion, have similar moves, have elemental attacks, and have horns shaved down on them. What would be more brutal to turn a divine beast of your enemy into a glorified watch dog that is chained.
It’s two dudes in a suit bro what are you talking about?
those two are completely different
@@unknownd5679 Yes they are two men in a suit, but they “divine beasts” are the lions that you see in the main game like at Radahns castle and Godricks. They dancing suits the two men use are based on them. Those lions are holy to the Hornsent. They are used basically as just guard dogs now.
@@WeAreTheReapersy’all got it backwards. What happened in the land of shadow preceded the lands between so really the Divine Beast, which was channeled thru 2 sculpted keepers, serves more as an ancestor with the lions being descendants with trace amounts of their divine crucible connection.
A lot of misinformation is passing on this video page I could ignore. I think it’s because the video is not well enough informed. So yes there are two horned race inside the lion head but it once was a divine beast. Mesmer was left there by Marika prior to the events of you coming to the lands between. Where he slew all the divine beast in vengeance for what the horned tribe did. All of this is prior to the shattering. We know this because Marika had 3 different spouses and each spouse delegates the time. Grandma can call the soul of the divine beast back into the skull because she’s an empyrean. She’s lived for thousands of years because this shadow of erdtree events start with Marika taking the throne to become a God with Godfrey as her consort and she has Maliketh take destined death to take revenge on the horned race. Because Godfrey is a tarnished and becomes forsaken she takes a new husband but before that mohg and morgot are born with the curse of the omen, the horned grandma (you met here) cursed them. Marika then becomes disgusted because of the horns of her new children, locks them up in leydell and take on her third spouse (ik im skipping over details but it’s too much to type) Radagon. With Radagon she has two children Miquella and Melania who were free of the curse of horned due to Radagon but then ranni steals destined death and kills Godwyn the Gold and the shattering occurs. Hope that helped with timeline
Lets GOOO!!! Cyberpunk and eleden ring??? Too of my favorite games ever made and this legend covers em now. Absolute peak
I was saying Mohg was under the influence months ago lol. Everything in the game and advertising for the DLC basically confirmed Miquella having the ability to capture people's hearts
And godwyn is the one in the cocoon
@@TAZMASTA40 no its not? He's in the deep root depths. It even says in game that mohg stole miquellas cocoon from the haligtree, and you can see the place where the cocoon was.
@Abe_linc idk man I watched a compelling theory on Godwin and where his remains are and it points to him being in that cocoon.
@@TAZMASTA40 but it literally states in gane that miquella is in the cocoon
Messemer absolutely knew about the treatment of the Shaman by the hornsent. He has a clinic in his shadow keep and you see a few jar people in beds resting.
He, Godwyn and Morgott were her most loyal sons.
In retrospect it’s pretty cool that Miquela’s great rune allows one to resist charm, and he was one of the only Demi-gods not “charmed” or effected by an outer god and looking to create an order for one, he in fact wanted to create an order untouched by any outer gods
messmer did also crusade in the lands between. the impaled giants at the peak were his doing, judging by the spear tips.
this brings to question any campaigns led by radagon too, i guess, since they're both red-haired leaders. when messmer journeyed into the land of shadows under marika's order, his existence in the lands between is erased and his deeds were probably reattributed to radagon instead.
that's what messmer's followers accepted being erased, and might have been seen as heroes for doing so. rellana for example, wasn't shamed for following messmer, but was sent off caringly by her sister with the gift of rennala's hair.
i also think messmer is very kind to his followers. he accepted the idea to convert a gigantic portion of the keep into a library that would have made seath cream his dragon pants. i don't think messmer ignores rellana either. after all, somebody's gotta teach her how to imbue her sword with messmer fire.
the knights who betray messmer were likely erdtreee loyalists. they believed that serpents are traitors, not knowing their boss keeps serpents as pets. they recognized a hypocrisy in messmer, not knowing that it's actually marika's.
building the storeroom is probably messmer's first faltering of faith. he was supposed to raze hornsent culture to the ground, but he kept secrets that would've led to a god that rivals marika. this is followed by the decapitation of marika's statues, which could have been messmer as well, seeing how some of these statues are more accessible to him rather than the rebels.
messmer is the lands between's shadow hero
I imagine mesmer sometimes think that he was abandoned and lash out at Marika statue
Also Messmer has a section of the shadowkeep where hes trying to nurse the Sharman jars. Trying to heal or maybe just give them comfort? Also the fact that he imprisoned the traitors and morned for his lost instead of killing them. He seems loyal and kind hearted but willing to do anything for that loyalty
The only large statues of Marika that are not beheaded are the ones in Messmers boss arena. Wouldn’t make sense for him to have beheaded all of them except the ones right next to him
I dont' think messmer decapitates the statues, I think his soldiers deface them. I do not think his followers are happy they're stuck there but are still absolutely loyal to messer who more or less seems like a good guy burdened with his mother's anger and terrible power.
Excellent video man, surely been a lot of work to put together. Very well done!
Man
Messemer, Mogh and Mogwyn all need a hug
W-who is Mogwin?
@@quasalviber9496 they probably meant Morgott
Regarding Gaius, I dont think its a contrivance that he is an albinauric AND friends with Messmer. I have two ideas,
1.) Messmer states those STRIPPED of gold shall perish, Gaius never had the grace of gold and was born outside of it entirely and so Messmer might have been referring to the Tarnished specifically
2) Albinaurics are cursed to fade away and die as you stated, perhaps that was good enough for Messmer since they are fated away anyways. That and they might not have viewed albinaurics as life necessarily and more as automota or tools, getting Asimov vibes from Messmers friendship with Gaius in that context
We have been truly blessed today
"I would rather live in a world of love forced and compelled, than in one of death and persecution chosen."
-Leda, probably
honey wake up, 1 hour and 30 minutes sam bram video just dropped
Another thing that might connect Melina with Messmer is her golden eye/seal that actually changes in the cut scene of the Lord of Frenzied Flame ending when she swears to destroy the
Tarnished.
such a good ass video, well done, instant sub
16:46 I think Original Sin refers to Messmer’s flame: it can be used to burn the Scadutree and therefore the Erdtree too just like the Flame of Ruin, plus Messmer could have losed control of the Serpent and would have become a menace so after he did her bidding with the Crusade she abandoned him and hid him in the Shadow Land. At least this is my take on his lore
seeing how the putrescent knight's skeleton is very similar to a horse's (big long ribs, long limbs, curvy neck), i really think that this is a horse skeleton riding on its own fleshy self
25:06 that was smooth
so glad someone commented on this. i nearly spit my drink when that happened
34:33 I think there might be a connection between the two tree avatars, mainly because the erdtree avatars appeared after the Elden ring was shattered and the scadutree avatar seems to be connected in some way to miquella’s shattered great rune. It’s possible that the shattering of a great rune at this specific area is what caused the scadutree avatar to emerge.
15:12. Does this not look like she's pulling strands of hair out of a snakes eye? We also find a random shed skin of a snake near the O mother gesture in bonny village.
I think with the mother of fingers, Marika sealing off the land of shadow is what cut off contact with the greater will.
You cover two of my favorite games, Cyberpunk and Elden Ring. Top 10 RUclipsr 🤙🏼
Hey man, love your content, I've seen all your cyberpunk videos atleast once. I really like this particular soundtrack you've used in many of your videos like the end of the top 5 sidequests video, can I know where to find it?
I've checked the cyberpunk album but can't figure out which one it is.
30:01 I would imagine that since he specifically uses the word “stripped” when speaking to us about those removed from the grace of gold he means it literally, which would make tarnished as well as marika’s enemies the ones he’s hostile to. However albinuracs are completely born without it, and not by marika’s doing. It’s possible that messmer took pity on gaius or saw he was still devoted though graceless and let him live.
I like that you used Fortissax's theme upon mentioning Godwyn. Damn I wish we got to fight him.
Cheers! I considered using the death knight theme too but Fortissax is cooler
Wise choice, considering he is also Godwyn's best friend.
Gotta say, I thoroughly enjoy your content. Your commentary is to the point, clear and concise. Thank you and I look forward to the next one.
I think the god of the Hornsent is a god of weather not the elements because typically fire is one of the core elements and not only is it absent for the Lion but the Hornsent resent fire in many forms.
Whereas lightning, blizzards and wind all associate back to the weather.
I wonder if the hornsent always despised fire or if they stopped using it after Messmer. Gonna be looking for any evidence of the hornsent using fire now. But yes, I think divine God of the weather could be more accurate. Others have suggested it's just the crucible which I think could also be the case but I think there's most likely some form of conscious god behind it too
@@SamBram The only example that really comes to mind right now are the inquisitors who set Midra's manor on fire and burned his library.
@@oliverp3545 though did they burn his library or was that the frenzied flame? Jori used all those runic spells as opposed to classic fire.
@@SamBram they're walking around with candles so I believe they're the ones who did it, those candles are also catalysts it seems.
Bloody hell this game is a piece of art, every part tells a story
I'm gonna drop a like on a video of a game I'm not familiar with, just because sam is goated youtuber
Some people mentioned it, but i believe the Putrescent knight is actually Radahns and Leonards body
Thematically, it makes sense for Radahns body to be there. Miquella only needed his soul, so he dumped the body in the fissure along with the part of himself he doesnt need (St. Trina). Also, Radahns body defending Trina parallels Radahn serving Miquella
As to how it couldve got there, it could've washed up there. Radahn died on the shore, so he might have been carried by the waves to the fissure.
it may be important to note, but Miquella and Godwyn were very close before Godwyn's death of his soul at the night of black knives. The sword Golden Epitaph, has a darker mood now saying essentially, 'Godwyn, please die a true death' was Godayn the original target for Miquellas consort? now that hes in a perpetual state of undeath, he cannot be sent to the shadow realm. so radahn was his 2nd option. perhaps in this case Godwyn chose to be Miquella's consort, hence why they were so close.
I don't think so. I mean, Miquella only needed Radahn's soul. Godwyn's soul is dead. Which means he can place Godwyn in Mohg's body and call it a day, but he doesn't.
A note about the moons: We've scoured the entire game for evidence pointing to the moons being actual sentient outer gods in a similar way that the formless mother is or the rot goddess, etc, but have found nothing. The only implication(that there is a general consensus for) is that they ARE simply celestial bodies that have power of some sort that can be unlocked if you can understand it, similar to the primeval current.
Amazing video! You have great content. 🎉
Ironically one of the best From lore videos out there. Thanks
Great video. Just subbed!
Really like your videos. The tempo is fast paced and still fresh. A lot of other videos will talk soooo slow (which isn't a bad thing most the time). I just wanted to compare the pure amount of information in videos just as long or even longer. You got a sub.
If everything dead finds it's way to the land of shadow. That means Marika most likely removed the rune of death from the elden ring to stop the dead from going to the shadow lands. Probably explains why the scadutree look so disheveled. If it's a counterpart to the erdtree then it would stand to reason that it drew power from the souls of the dead. Only thing I can't put my finger on is why the scadutree leaks sap while the erdtree is dry and hollow.
Have you played any of the Darksiders games?
@ 45:30 Malenia didn't seal away an ancient god of rot, her mentor did. The Blind Swordsman was the one who later taught Malenia the river fowl dance and how to use the power of flowing water techniques to quell the rot within her. It's also symbolic of how still bodies of water (such as the lake of rot) stagnate, where as flowing bodies of water such as rivers will erode and wash away impurities over time. This is an easy mistake to make as the blue dancer charm in isolation could indicate Malenia yes, but taken with other items that are related to this character it paints a different picture. Refer to: the Blue Cloth Amor set; the Flowing Curved Sword; the Curved Sword Talisman; the Prothesis-Wearer Heirloom.
I think Messmer was very "Mesme-rizzing" Relanna
I hated these bosses until I found the deflection harden tear, now I love this dlc
New viewer here...great video mate
i feel like maybe ymir thought that Metyr would end up dying there and leave the Microcosm behind, seeing how the Greater Will hadn't sent a message to her in a long time, and expected us to maybe bring it with us and wanting to defeat us to have it perhaps?
One thing you might've missed. The description of the Golden Epitaph is the following
"A sword to commemorate the death of Godwyn the Golden, first of the demigods to die. Infused with the humble prayer of a young boy; 'O brother, lord brother, please die a true death'"
This might say that Mohg is the backup body. Godwyn would've been the original target had Ranni not do what she did. As for why Miquella can't use Godwyn in his current state, since the body is still alive, I'd imagine it will "reject" Radahn's soul
Godwyn wouldn't have been a target for that cause he had all the time in the world to ask but didn't. If that was the case Miquella would have had Godwyn in his memory not Radahn. Plus if he had screwed over Godwyn, the Godwyn, you'd have seen some death faction shennigans in regards to him and there were literally none. That and Fortisaxx would have hunted his ass to the ends of the earth if he had anything to do with Godwyn's demise. no course of his power seems to work on things that were dead, if that were the case, he'd just have use that connection to reach the realm of shadow, the land of the dead.
@@KingofAwesomness14 No you got it wrong. Miquella doesn't want Godwyn's soul in Mohg's body. He wants Radahn's soul in ANYONE'S body. Miquella still wants Radahn's SOUL.
As you know, we never know if Radahn ever say anything but if Malenia had to bring him down to send his soul to the realm of shadow, we can assume he's either not interested or refused Miquella's proposal.
Godwyn was the first to die but his death was not a true death because only his soul died but the body still lived, as per my statement, and due to that Miquella's plan could not proceed
In game, Radahn and Mogh are the earliest actual demigod you fight. Both accessible after hitting Altus. You don't need to fight Renalla or Godrick. Even if you do, they're not even demigods. Renalla you don't even kill and Godrick is so far down the line of succession his blood is too diluted.
I don’t think Mohg was the backup body from Goldwyn, but I do think it’s possible Goldwyn was Miquella’s first choice for consort. We see him in statues at the Haligtree and Miquella tried first to resurrect Godwyn’s soul at Castle Sol during a ritual of the eclipse that failed.
I think Ranni wanted to herself be the God of her dark moon and needed to shed her Empyrean flesh. Someone, someway, somehow she learned of the ritualistic killing with the rune of destined death to kill her in body only but she would also need another to be killed in soul alone for the ritual to work. She learns of Miquella’s plot and him wanting Goldwyn as his consort. So Ranni chooses Godwyn as her target out of convenience sake as she would’ve known getting anyone too close to Miquella risked them being enchanted.
Miquella puts Godwyns original body in a cocoon representing rebirth attempts the ritual at castle Sol and fails. He comes up with a new plan that would allow him the bridge to the shadowland.
Mohg takes Miquella and the cocoon(we see him carry them both separate in the intro for the base game). Miquella tricks Mohg into thinking that if he gives Godwyn his tainted omen blood it could somehow save him and make Godwyn Mohg’s consort. Notice how Knight Leda does not call the corpse in the cocoon Miquella or Kindly Miquella or anything like that, she simply calls it the withered arm. Now, Miquella needs only to wait. For the death of Godwyns body finally through Mohgs poisoning. However this kills only one part of Godwyn as through the death blight he has many copies of his flesh that have been warped by the death root. The death of this body allows the bridge to be opened to the shadowland as we learn that all things in death are drawn there. We kill Mohg allowing Miquella to have a new body for his new chosen consort Radahn. Mohg never knowing Miquella’s promise of the greatest warrior in the golden order becoming his consort was a manipulation. Miquella enters through the withered arm and the NPCs in the DLC follow in his footsteps doing the same. They enter the realm of shadow and continue following Miquella as he divests himself of his flesh. They follow him until we break the rune and break the enchantment so this band of warriors comes to an end and succumbs to infighting as they all have different motivations.
@@ariaangela3455 you were right, i just watched some videos of it and realized that most of the previous content would have involved far more of Godwyn then Radahn. Why would a compassion loving God want a war general when an item description literally states that Miquella wanted an eclipse to bring back Godwyn. So i will concede on that one, you made the better and more informed point.
I only wish that in the final fight against Miquella and Mohgadahn if you had followed Ranni's quest you could summon her for the battle. It seems clear to me that her ending is the canon one since it's the only ending that has a quest line that runs arguably across the length of the whole game and has tie ins to essentially every part of it. It's also the best ending as it starts fresh, having cast aside the Golden Order and everything that started it or was started by it in favor of something new.
I wished you would make Cyberpunk related content forever. Can't wait for the sequel to drop in 2032.
I have more Cyberpunk stuff in the works. There'll still be videos on it between now and Orion don't worry
I'd expect Orion a little sooner than that. I'd say we'll see the first trailer at least in the next 4 years, and the game will likely drop in 7 or so years. Unreal Engine 5 and the whole new style of development they're working with is going to really make things more efficient, especially if they pull a Yakuza and stay in Night City and just build upon the great foundation they already have. I think that's much more likely than another 13 year wait for a whole new city or something.
That's game is 🐴 💩...
@@treefingers6572don’t cdpr have to finish the new witcher game before that though.
I hope the Sequel flops too.
Without any salvation this time.
In the end, Marika is playing 4D chess here by bringing us, the tarnished in the game and ruining everyone's plans, freeing herself and killing her pet beast.
She also made us resist Miquela's charm, at least besides the last fight.
Gaius was spending some time with his wife when you walked into his boss room he didnt even have time to pull up his pants before rushing at you
Its a funny image imagining gaius making love to his wife still wearing that goofy armour and helmet
The messmer spear thrusts are what were kicking my teeth in
Another theory I could make for melina of all the countless others made over the years is this:
Melina’s hair color is neither really red or gold as would indicate her being a direct child of marika, but more so the default brown color of newman’s we see when creating a character. She uses a weapon that’s a different variant used by the black knifes who are newman woman, and can cast a incantation that’s closes counter part is only found in the shaman village. Which is run by a matriarch leader that goes by the title “grandmother.”
In other words, minus marika - melina is last shaman newman in the lands between. Being hidden away as a infant when the hornsent rounded up the last of the shaman. Only to be later found by the new god marika, where she adopted her and took her with her as she created the minor erdtree incarnation as a goodbye to their home.
And where messmer got a iris of grace to seal the abyssal serpent, melina got a iris of occultation (her frenzy flame “gloam eye”) to hide her from the grace of gold as means of protection. And until the start of the base game, she was stuck inside the shadow realm till miquella made a way in and out with his meddling. And she calls marika mother not only as her adopted daughter, but due to their culture which is most likely to denote parental figures.
maybe im misinterpreting what you say because my english is not perfect.. isnt melinas hair somewhat pink- ish?(ofcourse until the ending scene where she changed completely) also melina is referred as messmers sister and that they share a similiar purpose in kindling something? so wouldnt it mean that melina is her direct daughter?
"they don't drop a remembrance" brother, bayle's heart IS the remembrance
In the Files St Trina is the LOVER HALF OF MIQUELLA , like Markia and Radagon. And a microcosm or microcosm is a small universe gateway you can even use it as an attack as a universal bomb or a gateway. And Plad only got caught bc he was off guard 😂 and Bayle still lost basically
31:10 Doesn't Gaius scream something at you about not letting you escape when you first walk into his arena?
I think he was at that back gate presumably to cut off the escape of (and get revenge on, if fought after Mesmer) the infiltrator of the Shadow Keep.
I never heard any lines from him. That certainly adds to the story if there are some though!
@@SamBram Yeah, none of the wiki sites have much about it, so take my word on it with a grain of salt... I was busy being gored by a boar at the time! 🤣
But yeah, I'm fairly certain he says something like "You'll find no escape here". I'll have to wait until my NG+8 run to find this out, apparently. Fortunately, things aren't going to get any harder for me. 😅
With Romina, Empyreans are a concept for the two fingers and Greater Will. Nothing states that other, opposing, Outer Gods had a similar system and so Romina could have indeed fulfilled a similar role as an Empyrean to the sealed rot god
IN THE EMBRACE OF MESSMER'S CURSE YOU BAYLE!!!!!
I heard this in two voices 😂
I love your videos it’s awesome to see you diversify!
I'm a firm believer that Ranni's path is the only "good" one when it comes to the outter gods and Marika's children. She's the only one who wants to leave the world to its own devices without any godly influence. The running theme with all gods in the game, outter and otherwise, is that they think their own way is best and they just puppet along everyone and everything to their whim. Ranni refuses to be a puppet to fate or any outter god and instead wishes to leave the world behind to work itself out.
And our own path? The normal one, rune of order,death, of the dung eater?
nah bruh, she left the lands festering in rot and of death. She left it to be consumed by the trouble she caused and almost didn't take you
The idea that midra was simply being manipulated by Nanaya to become lord of frenzied flame is an idea id never considered before but i really like it
It's not necessarily the case. I may have argued too heavily for it in the video but I do think the theory has some good grounding
@@SamBram Nah I think you went hard enough to get the idea across without stating it like it's fact. I had just never considered the possibility of her support being more nefarious in nature but it totally checks out.
Wish we had more to go off with Saint Trina's lore, though
I got the impression that Messmer is the result of the "affair" and "betrayal" spoken of in the DLC trailer. That somehow this first union with Radagon, or some other entity we don't know, was part of an elaborate scheme to seek revenge on the horn-sent and ascend to godhood. We know from Miquella during the DLC there is an elaborate process to entering the divine gate including stripping pieces of yourself. So what if truly Radagon and Marika were different people but were "melded" (like the jars) and Messmer is the result making Messmer both the keeper of the Serpent and the First Sin. Not sure how it fits together, but its a thought.