Drill sharpener: Motom BSM 13 DUO
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- Опубликовано: 12 ноя 2023
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Stefen - You did an excellent job reviewing and demonstrating this machine. The manufacturer should reimburse you for your efforts. Thank you so much for sharing this with your followers.
The hole quality section was a real eye opener, thanks! 👍
My favourite machining channel, every day is a school day for which I for one am grateful.
I bought a Vevor machine that is almost identical except without the web thinning mechanism. Like yours it came with the set of er20 metric collets and two grinding wheels (one is diamond) I purchased a set of imperial collets to cover the sizes that are either too large or too small. It works great and is a heavy duty unit that also is extremely quiet. I noticed that after grinding multiple sets of different size bits, the grind became smoother and more consistent. The price was about half that of the Motom and I can’t see any real difference between the two. My drill bits come out evenly ground and sharp. So far it makes drilling into mild steel, aluminum, plastic and wood a breeze. The sharpened bits are staying sharp so I’m a happy camper. I’m sure the Motom is a better machine but I can’t see where and at half the price I’d get the Vevor all day long.
Hello I bought the vehicle sharpening machine to myself let me ask you where can I get the imperial size collets?
Stefan, I appreciate these kinds of shop updates. Thanks!
Thank you again. The clarity of your presentations matches the precision of your work.
Congratulations on 100k subscribers! Well deserved for your work and sharing your time!
Thank you a lot!
As usual, fantasist work. As usual, you seem to find versions of machines I can not get. Your Aladdin's cave of magnificent machines and exemplary technique, ruins my day. :) Keep it up.
Thanks Stephan for all your videos over years. I've learned a ton watching. Now, just in case I can offer a microscopic something in return, at 23:27 you say "Lead way". I think you want "Lee way", a nautical term meaning you have room downwind to maneuver. Or you have room to maneuver in whatever thing you are doing. Thanks again!
Thank you! Thats the problem when you learn a language mostly by listening, less by reading.
Thanks for making the video. I never worked with one so its nice to see how it does it's thing.
I was honestly surprised that you liked this machine! I knew you would think about it, so your review is helpful.
Very informative, I enjoyed your presentation.
Stellar review Stefan!
I have a similar unit and the larger version that goes up to 26mm which covers anything I would need for a twist drill. Also I have a diamond wheels for them so I can grind carbide drills. Works good but it is a bit of an extra step to switch the wheel out but it's not over time consuming.
Cool! It seems like the bigger machines are rarer, not so many seem to be around.
I might get a diamond wheel at one point too.
Very nice unit. Well demonstrated.
I'm glad you did the full video Stefan, thanks- also glad you gave the price 👍👍. At the rate I blunt (HSS) drill bits, it's far cheaper for me to buy 5-packs of common sized drills. If I used more costly cobalt or carbide drills it would make sense for me to buy something that gave results like this with next to no skills needed. 👍👍
Good demo,Stefan.Thank you.
I just watched the video on patreon but couldn’t comment there. I’ve been contributing each month, but there must be a glitch somewhere. Anyway, I’ve been using the newer model of Drill Doctor for several years now. It not near the precision machine like yours, but it does a good job for what I paid for it. It has the option to split grind the tip, but I don’t bother much using it. I always pre drill and don’t see the need for it. I guess in mass production, you could save time, not having to pre drill. Also, to get a perfect hole, I thought you should always follow up with a reamer. I always enjoy your videos and have watched most of them several times. Especially, on the Deckel FP1. What a great machine ! Thanks for all the great knowledge you are offering to machinists who are beginning.
Great review and a nice machine there Stefan👍
Cool machine! Thanks for breaking it down.
Thank you! Absolutely excellent!
good video stefan..thanks for your time
So, it's like an *actually good* version of a drill doctor. nice.
I remember the first time I ever saw a drill doctor. The shop thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. All plastic, the setting was janky at best, it never seemed to want to spark out, the collet never held the bits very well. We tried to use it for a little while but went back to using a bench grinder pretty quickly. It was a good idea but the execution was trash. This thing looks great and seems to do a good job. Better than I can do on a grinder free hand.
The alignment process and holder on the drill doctor would be well suited for a masochist
@@copasetic216 or someone who really wants an inverted relief angle.
@@zachalilesI had the same experience.
I bought (6) sets of 115 drill bits over time, because I could never find the right drill in the box. This went on until I bought a drill set that was so expensive that I would put drills away back in the box. After I built up the good habits, now I can use the cheap drill sets.
Stefan. Nice drill grinder. I am accustomed to a Darex SP 2500 which I used in my day job. I am retired now and have looked to purchased one maybe off ebay, but their prices were out of my price range and they looked pretty beat up. Thanks for posting.
Awesome! I've got the same one so watching someone methodically go over it, and hopefully make some upgrades I can follow will be great! And I'm first!
Very nice! The non pilot hole vs pilot was an excellent comparison, and the machine looks nice and robust.
I have a Kuhlmann grinder and will watch your video on grinding drills with a D bit grinder.
I can't justify spending the money for a dedicated drill grinder.
Good review and discussion on drilling
Thanks, excellent tutorial
I have a Darex which does a very nice job from 1/8 to1/2 inch. The wheel must have finer grit as the grind looks smoother but it may not last as long also. Dust collection is a very nice addition which I have as a dedicated Darex vacuum.The Darex is 2 to 3 times as expensive but I got it almost like new from a fellow hobbyist who past away. It is wonderful to have sharp drills in a minute. Once you have one of these machines you can’t go back to dull drill bits. Good purchase for your shop!
I used to use a Darex M5, and i thought it was a wonderful piece of kit, i could also make Helical points on that machine.. as well as 3 Flute Drills.
This Motom machine looked like a "Drill doctor" to me, but this one actually works!..not too bad..
@@JanBinnendijk Drill doctor works, just finicky.
@@JustinAlexanderBell I used a Drill doctor once.. too Finicky.. just no good.. i ended up teaching all colleagues how to sharpen a drill by hand.. way faster and better.. i told my boss to throw that drill doctor in the bin..
@JanBinnendijk
We have one of the better/higher end drill doctors at work. I think its pretty handy for bits under 1/4 or 3/16...but we all pretty much free hand anything larger. Couple guys just don't seem to be able to grasp how to sharpen drills, so I think they use the drill doctor for everything regardless of size.
This machine looks about 1 million times better than the drill doctor though. I might have to look into getting one for our shop. It would probably pay for itself considering how many bits we go through each year.
Thanks for the video!
Cool tool. In a previous video you recommended a cam drill press vice. I just got mine - thank you so much for the wonderful tool tip. Much appreciated - I'm hooked! :)
Yay! Good to hear :-)
Stefan, another difference I noticed on your pre-drilling demonstration is how much hotter the second hole was. The amount of steam from the coolant surprised me, but you must have expected it due to your experience.
What a coincidence Stefan. I did a review of the Vevor drill grinder two weeks ago.
Same experience: One trick pony, but grinds drills back to factory specs in no time.
It was nice that an extra diamond wheel was included with the Vevor, great for carbide.
Seems like one of those things that you never really feel like you need but if you have one it just instantly turns into a minor part of your day which you could never live without
I stopped the video in the middle to check out pricing because I don’t make any money with tools. The Vevor came up, and seemed reasonably priced.
Then I saw a similar machine listed on AliExpress for $35 and change! Plus $235 shipping. 😢
I want to buy one TODAY but am going to wait to see if I feel the same way in a month. Or run out of patience!
@@firstmkbthose aren’t the same machine. There are a number of “similar” machines on the market. If it’s a lot cheaper, it’s a different tool.
And if it is a lot more expensive, too.
What matters is how well they perform, and you weigh that against the price.
@@Michel-Uphoff those cheaper one are different. They’re not just cheaper, they’re much less sophisticated and versatile.
Nice review.
Great machine, would be a great santa klaus addition 😀
Grts from the netherlands Johny geerts
You could make a video on pencil sharpeners and it would be interesting I’m sure! Another great video Stephan, thanks!
I have the same machine (different brand and color, 1/3 of the price, but clearly the same manufacturer or at least design) and after a lot of trial and mainly error, I found my guessometer has to be set at drill size + 3mm. But apart from that, it’s a dream to work with! I used to sharpen drills by hand for 40+ years, and was pretty good at it, but this is an entirely different category of precision, sharpness and usability.
What is the brand of your drill bit sharpening machine and where did you purchase it?
Lots of makers, with different precision and pricetsg.
Also some variants of the trick they can perform. Four facet , flat bottom etc.
@@jefferywright4204 Somehow my reply got removed?…
My story is exactly the same
Also the degrees setting is a guessometer mine is +8 degrees
Its just a sticker that is glued somewhere on the right bottom
Thanks
Thanks for the demo. They should give you a break, but you know business;"always the dollar".
I have the same machine different maker. I had to make a collet to do some of my smaller drills
Nice!
3D print some plugs for the holes not being used, when running the vacuum.
Lola way nicer than the drill doctor I have. May have to upgrade one day. Thanks for sharing I have never seen one of these before.
Vevor makes a clone of this that works the same. Cheaper in every way but it does the job. Made in China, build quality is okay blah, blah blah. Check it out
Thanx for vid
That’s certainly a few steps and a ladder above my li’l Drill Doctor, but for my rough and ready welding shop, it certainly keeps some life in my poor abused collection of bits.
Neat little machine. Not all that surprised by the price (was expecting worse honestly.) There's a masochistic part of me that wants to see how hard it'd be to make one.
Thankfully for my sanity, I don't have a shop to put machine tools in much less the tools to make the attempt.
Great video Stefan, I will add this to my Saved List due to fact I have one of these machines or very similar in my shop which I will look at tomorrow. Do you think there is much of an advantage drilling with split point with a pilot hole? Would be good to see holes drilled with both split point and non with and without pilot holes. I think that came out correct ??? Anyway thank you.
Very good, I’ve been thinking about getting one. The only thing that’s stopped me is that the largest size is too small. I need 3/4” or 20mm.
Moin Stefan! Knorke device! Thanks for review.
Finer wheel + less material removal could make this even nicer i think.
Whats your feeling how well this will handle carbide drills?
Stephan, The Vevor model... is around £250...and looks and works well..
What? The guy who freehands precision lathe tools on the debit grinder buys a drill sharpener? Götterdämmerung!
Ok addemdum: the bur removal thing was wicked! You're off the hook but we'll be watching :D
Weird, but this machine seems a lot faster
@@SELG88Yah I mean sorry I am just pulling his leg a bit. Ages ago I stumbled over this channel and then when I started to work at a (german) trade school I showed it to a few of the workshop teachers and those were quite flabbergasted... especially about the freehand grinding of tiny carbide edges. :D
@@spitefulwar interesting, he owns several grinders he may have a few more reasons xd
Hi. Does main grind movment have ball bearings or plain bearing?
Vertex vdg-13A has plain bearing and it developes bit of drag after few drillbits.
Needs frequent cleaning.
If _"why buy it if I can make it"_ is being a cheapskate then I will wear that badge proudly, bc I am infamous for this. 😂 Great video as always Stefan, thank you for uploading! 👍👍
being on such tight budget, i could never afford this. but then again the level of precision i end up having to work with is really poor for so many other reasons anyhow! (like not having a machine shop, etc). so for 20 bucks i just bought the budget amazon drill bit sharpener that was recently tested and recommended by project farm. which of course maybe not as professional, but at least i can then afford to buy other more urgent tools instead for those monies saved.
still very lovely video, and to show the demonstration with and without reaming. for example i can buy some m35 cobalt bits (5%) in the 0.1mm increments (from local uk supplier here). which is affordable to me. and then consider for doing the reaming and also the centre drilling / pilot drilling. which isn't too expensive or anything. and with a good accurate markup tools for centre punching etc. it can be good enough for my home hobby and diy purposes. at least 'as good as can be' without proper machining tools for lathe, mill etc.
anyhow love your videos and i watch since long times, ever since you got the emco lathe was how i found your channel. just such useful and helpful things here. so grateful many times already. best wishes my friend
More collets, I bet Stefan has got collets on his tooth brush and gas cap. I knew before hand it wouldn't be cheap, but he's only buying it one time and over a lifetime it will work out to be pennies a drill, whereas coffee and a donut is almost $5 bucks now.
Thanks, Stefan; a good honest review. I like that the machine is all metal and has "calibrated" adjustability.
However, I think I will remain satisfied with my Drill Doctor. While it is a combination of metal & plastic (mostly FRP), has a single chuck that accepts the full range (3/32" - 3/4" | 2.4mm - 19mm) of drill bits and does not have the capability of doing web-thinning, it can create points from 115° - 140°, has adjustment for material removal (so you can "touch-up" a bit that is slightly dull), has a split-point port (with a suction adapter that fits into the split-point port, which is OK since must of the dust is generated while sharpening) and for the $US130 I paid for it in 2014 ($US170 currently) it does what I need for my mini-shop. The bits I have sharpened cut evenly and cleanly.
The standard grit wheel is 180G, with an 80G option available for faster material removal on larger bits. There are also aftermarket wheels available in 120G & 220G. All of the wheels are diamond plated.
The Drill Doctor comes with a good pedigree as it was designed by and manufactured by Darex.
Thanks again and stay safe,
Charlie
I bought a clone from Vevor. Took the one that goes up to 20mm. I won't be sharpening much anything under 5mm, maybe sometimes the occasional drill from the 0,1mm spaced index if needed
Suddenly, my Drill Doctor doesn't seem very good now... Hope all is well there!
Thx for a great video! 👍
I need to sharpen gear cutters, drill bits, end mills, and to make form tools. I had some extra cash this past year so I bought a Cuttermaster CM-01P with everything. Altogether about $15k.
I show the invoice in the video.
23:56
@@StefanGotteswinter So I saw. I looked on line for a price before I watched the video. My bad!
I was shocked when you revealed the cost of that machine. Nice machine, and I could wear that machine out with all the dull drill bit I have. It's probably cheaper for me to just buy new drill bits for the cost of that machine. Lol
i've wondered why there isn't a 3d printed jig for doing these 3 operations. Seems like a worthy thing to print if it existed.
I don't _need_ one, but I want one.
That tool looks very handy
Does predrilling also improve the precision of the hole location or would it be more prone to wander off?
Hmm, I "think" that it does kinda improve hole location, since you dont have to force the chisel point trough the material.
Noice !!
Why not? If you’re happy with it and it saves you time working then over it’s lifespan it will save you money. Buy once, cry once. 👍🇳🇱
The common design is dc motor and rectifier (thus it can be coupled with speed controller).
With some practice drill grind depth is easy to set by hand and the orientation by eye. And practice there will be...
For small drills (under 3mm or so) the stickout is too long. They vibrate and can not keep any tolerance.
The chinese ones are good. Well worth the 300 or so euros.
Did I see that right? D bit grinder or new CNC lathe? Great review Stephan.
Not my Mazak lathe ;)
Stefan gotten thinner or my eyes got bigger? And 100k subs, grats on both!
Yeah... that's the main take away. What is with you losers and your complete lack of manners?
Would anyone know why some drills get a no slope or upwards slope when side viewed from the cutting edge towards the rear when using these machines? What could be the cause of this that some drill bits gets a inverted sharpening on this type of grinders?
Hi Stefan as an avid viewer I was very impressed with the MOTOM BSM 13 DUO grinder video . I’ve tried without success to purchase the same, can you please pass on any help/advice in purchasing the same item, I am in the UK but don’t mind importing! Regards Paul
Worked at a place that had a black diamond drill grinder was pretty fun until you have to do a 5gallon bucket of drills.
Thats so true :D
Though likely adequate for sharpening drills, how is the clamping pressure and distribution when the collets are backwards?
The collets work practicaly the same way as in an regular collet chuck. A little less contact area on the shorter taper section, but in my experience thats not a problem, since the collet is only tightened by hand anyways.
this is a good and honest review.
I have the same grinder but from HBM.
I paid 199 euros for it, it was discounted, normal price is 349 euros.
I wonder if there is much difference in quality between my HBM grinder and your Motom grinder?
personally, I don't think there,s much difference.
cheers ben.
There are differences for sure, I know that from testing different makes and models at machinetool exhibitions. The alignment of the wheel is off for the webb thining on some machines. Sometimes the wheel wobbles. Some machines come with finer step collets default.
The fit between the grinder and the drill bit holders can be very different, drill bit holders can be very different in fit and feel, with the collets.
The alingment jigs have variations: hardness, fit of the drill holder, laser engraved dials (stickers that can be wiped off with Alcohol 😞😲), correct placement of the dials. Some come with a separate alignment between rotation and length, wich makes setup for small drills (smaller 3 mm) much more reliable. Some have a magnifier with cross hair to align the drill.
My below 300 USD device works "sort of" but is rubbish for small drills. A unit for 3x the price is much nicer to use and can go down to 2mm drill size. I had to pay for the CBN wheel extra, which comes default for some machines.
Hope that comment was not too longwinded.
Similar ponies are available for other tricks e.g. Wood drils, 4 facet grind, sheet metal point etc.
Also a nice alternative for the people who do not want to spend several hundreds on the machine ruclips.net/video/AzPkma6lDAo/видео.html
Sharp drill bits make a big difference. I'm not a machinist. Was drilling through some stuff recently, got partway through, switched to another bit and that went through WAY faster.
@StefanGotteswinter01 thank you for the wonderful gift. It is just what I wanted. Have a great day!
Sorry! This is NOT me. That was a scam / spam bot/automated account.
Its already blocked and added to the user filter.
@StefanGotteswinter I know.. hahaha. I just pretend I already received their wonderful gift.
The brierley we have at the works does everything but is so complex to setup no one knows how to use it :-) That looks a better option for drills
I've got one, what's the problem? I find the Brierley easy to use
@@crozwayne no it isn't hard to use just complex , if only used occasionally, it needs s refresher course.
Harich aus Feucht 😃
Grüße an Felix!
The flank (the part of the surface that is ground) looks faceted. Taking into consideration the way that the holder rotates and operates I'm puzzled as to why the flank would be faceted. If it is faceted then that's not good and can cause there to be a need to increase the clearance angle for the bit to function properly. I do understand that the split point option will negate some of the faceting but II believe not all machines include the split point feature.
Hi Stefan, do you think the MIOTAL SBSM 313 comes close to this Motom machine, or will it be a waste of money? It costs 400€ whereas the Motom costs 900. MIOTAL is sold by a german company called Weber Werkzeugmaschinen GbR. GbR actually sounds like a two-men-reselling-chinese-stuff-show, hm. Do you know anything about MIOTAL products? Im considering to buy such a machine, but will use rarely, because I am only a hobbyist. Nevertheless, I need sharp drills, like everyone else.
I would like to place a stupid question here. Can this apparatus sharpen parabolic drill bits?
Very reasonable question I would say - I have sharpened some parabolic flute drills and they look very odd after grinding, but they seem to cut ok - But its not the original grind.
👍👏👏👏
And if you were really in need of a pedestal mounted sharpening station I'm sure you could build a stand for that machine.
In my opinion a modified General no. 825 bit sharpener is best and can produce factory quality drill bit geometry. I should make a video on the modification process.
Is this tool is suitable for remaking a drill point witch have broken?
complete reconstruction? yes that works very well. might take two grinds to get it fully cleaned up.
I need similar machne my dayjob👍
Schönes Maschinchen, ich mache das auf der Arbeit und privat immer am Schleifbock und im Zweifel auf Montage mit der Flex😂. Mit etwas Geschick und einer gut abgerichteten Scheibe bekommt man sogar am Schleifbock einen Vier Facettenschliff hin, aber natürlich nicht in einer Minute.
Sehr interessant, dass der Bohrer ins volle auch nur paar Hundertstel drüber war. Vielleicht kannst du ja nochmal zeigen wie übermaßig ein Bohrer ohne Vier Facettenschliff und Ausspitzung ins volle bohrt und vielleicht noch ein Bohrer mit (gutem) Freihandschliff.
Auf der Flex knieen und auf der Schruppscheibe den Bohrer schleifen, kommt mir bekannt vor :D
Total sicheres Arbeiten :D
Was die anderen Bohrversuche angeht, da muss/will ich mir was überlegen, damits nicht stinklangweilig u. trocken wird. Steht aber auf der Liste.
@@StefanGotteswinter kommt immer auf die Zielgruppe an, ob es langweilig wird. Ich mein man kann ja auch noch auf die Auswirkungen von Spitzenwinkel und Freiwinkel eingehen etc.
Hi Stefan, How much are the Carbide wheels?
the diamond wheels are something in the 150Eur range
Over one thousand dollars for this beauty, two hundred fifty for the Vevor. Same exact machines just a small four hundred percent difference in price.
I would be careful with that assumtion.
Man I've drilled probably 100s of 1000s of holes with hss jobber drills never prefilled one time under 18mm diameter and as long as it's not running out they always cut within .001 (.025mm) of nominal size
Have you considered investing in the other similar machines? I know from my looking at these there are tap and endmill grinders available from the same offshore manufacturers, I looked into them somewhat but couldn't find much as far as I would consider end user reviews so never picked one up.
I'd also add, I would gladly watch your honest tool reviews, though I understand that isn't the direction you may want to take you channel HOWEVER, I believe that a lot of us would be willing to watch reviews that are honest and benefit your channel.
Looking at the stats of my videos, the best for my channel would be to do ONLY toolreviews and shoptours :D
Those get the most views and engangement. But as you say, thats not where I want to go, I want to convey a certain degree of knowledge to those who watch my videos.
Thats also why I can not really justify one of the other drill grinders in the same style/different name to draw a comparisation. But if you look up other peoples videos on these and compare it to this one, I hope you can make out some suddle differences. I have seen that the stop pins on the web thinning and split point positions are roll pins on the cheaper ones, on the Motom they are nice solid pins. Much difference? I do not know.
@@StefanGotteswinter People say "suddle" that way but it's "subtle". I don't think people pronounce the "b".
Haben Sie irgendwelche empfehlungen für eine gute manuelle Fettpresse?
Nein, leider nicht - Zumindest nicht für "große" Fettpressen.
Bei den Kleinen Stoß-Fettpressen mag ich "Samoa Hallbauer"
I noticed you using both "euro" and "buck" when talking about pricing. Has buck been adopted as slang for euro, just as Americans use it for dollar?
only by Stefan, i'd say. German already got its slang word for Euros ... which would be Eier (eggs). 😂
⭐🙂👍
So im spot drilling, 5.5mm, 7.5mm, then 9.5mm and finally a 10mm reamer, in my lathe, and the holes are coming out oversize!!! What am I doing wrong, and how should this be done. I'm using 2 flute carbide spot drill, cobalt twist drills and HSS reamer with oil. 👍👌🇦🇺
i ream with -0.2, max. -0.3mm undersize. perhaps try drilling 9,8 or 9,7 mm before reaming. also what material are you drilling/reaming?
@@lul9670thanks, I had suspected that might be the issue, I've only got 0.5mm drill sizes, need 0.1mm set.👍👌🇦🇺(steel)
You also need to look at the H number of your reamer. From there you can determine if it is meant to reamer to a clearance or an interference fit. Different H number, different size hole, even though they are all spec'd at the same nominal size
Preferable to a d-bit grinder?
It depends - If you ONLY want to do drills, but very quick, yes. If you want to do a lot of things, but have more time - dbit grinder
I don’t see this model advertised anywhere except from German vendors. Is it called something else in the rest of Europe or North America?
Btw I see it’s still stock or cutting tools 1 Stephane’s fingers 0! 😜
It’s not a D bit grinder, but it’s nice and fast for shops.
@StefanGotteswinter01 Yes of course. I hope it’s not a great deal, cause I’m low on garage funds lol.
Wait a minute, that’s not you Stefan lol
I kind of wondered that we never talked about any tools, and wth are hearts for 😂
Sorry, these are bots / scam attemts - I think I got most of them blocked by now.
What is the flat two holed boss on the RHS for?
RHS?
TLA for right hand side 😊
Ah! Thats where a plexiglas cover was.
@@Paul-FrancisBTLA🤔…Three Letter Acronym?
A few steps up from my potts..