That crosscut saw was crazy sharp! I've read about long shavings from a crosscut and now I've seen it. In the larger logs the crosscut looks a lot more comfortable to use, and pace yourself with. Great video!
Yep, that's why I have 5 silky saws, 4 cross cuts and 4 chainsaws. Every saw has it's purpose. I like a different saw depending on what I'm cutting and the situation.
I love my silky saws and I love my crosscut saws both for different reasons. The thing that the silky will never do is sing and I am okay with that. There is nothing quite like the music of a properly tuned crosscut saw. Thanks Jim.
Thanks for this. The 650 seems like the happy medium between the smaller saws and the 1000. As much as I love using crosscuts, they are an obstacle to carry for long distances. That 650 looks like it would fold up and pack tight, keeping my hands free for hiking poles. I think a 650 is in my near future.
650 is fantastic, worth every penny. I've cut about 2 cords of wood with it since receiving it in April, and I only go out every once in a while, other than removing some tree resin which was gumming it up the thing cuts as good as the day I bought it.
You won’t regret. I’ve cut a lot with mine and it lives behind the seat of my truck for emergency blow down trees. For that task a chain saw, fuel, oil and protective gear would take too much space. I’d suggest you pair it with a single hand pull saw for smaller tasks that require a hand to stabilize the material you want to cut but be careful.
extensive testing an open mind and the "trying to see the brightside for viewers" very well made don't even care much about saws and I just hit subscribe gj
I'd take a bow saw or a cheap hardware store hardpoint saw camping. Let's be realistic - if you have a 20 inch hardware store push saw, you can saw more wood than you'll burn, and you won't feel like you have to protect it.
@@daw162 Who knows. Some disaster might happen and your friend is stuck under a big tree. Your bow saw is limited by its length. Face it, Silky is the next evolution.
Thank you for sharing this information Jim. By the way, I had no idea you have a RUclips channel. I would have subscribed a lot earlier... :) anyway, i can't wait to get home and see more of your videos and looking forward to see more of them in the future. 😊👋
As always GREAT VIDEO!!! I use your videos and examples as a benchmark for my efforts to learn and sharpen and use these old crosscut saws. We fell and cut firewood with them almost explusively here on the homestead. Here in the Apps we cut mostly hardwoods, oak and hickory and such. Would there be anything different you would do in sharpening for hardwood cutting?
Yes, filing for hardwood is a little different then soft woods. In general for hardwoods the cutters are a little more blunt and not as pointed. Also the rakers depth below the cutters would likely be a little less for hardwoods. You can find some references at: www.bchw.org/Tech%20tips/Crosscut%20Sharpening.htm
Righteous. I live in 'clear cut land' so there are no Forties left. The K-boy will suffice, and will pack into my truck better than the trad-cut saw. Thank you very much for the comparison in multiple applications.
The katanaboy 1000 is a much better fit for the size of the log you are cutting. The teeth are significantly bigger on the 1000 Vs 650. It is not slightly better but significantly better. You spend most of the energy on changing direction so the bigger the blade the more wood cut per stroke and the more efficient you are. This is why with the crosscut you plow through the log having more than twice the blade length. Not only that but think how much blade is left after you substract the width of the log on both of the saws. You are also more experienced with the crosscut or so it seems to me. Thing is the silky 1000 is quite expensive but it really is better. Look it up on Canadian Prepper's channel as he does some tests. He even extended a call for a cutting contest.
One disadvantage the Katanaboy has is that it only cuts on the pull stroke. The traditional saw cuts on both the pull and push stroke. It would interesting to test a Katanaboy 1000, it would likely cut faster then the 650. If someone would send me one or if an able bodied Katanaboy saywer would show up here with one, we could put it to a real test.
@@jimthode this is how all slikyes cut, on the pull but but with a crazy sharp blade. Talk to Canadian Prepper and maybe you can sort something out. First check his relevant videos. He knows his saws!
Jim, I recently restored a nice perforated lance tooth and all was well till the tooth setting, tips kept braking off even after all teeth being tempered to blue with a torch…those that didnt break often had a crack, almost all teeth had a crack or broke about 1/4" from the tip. Have you ever seen this? Any idea the cause? Could the saw be salvaged if filled down past this magical break line on the teeth? Or just a write-off due to factory error in metal or temper you think? Id love to save the saw, its a nicely tapered old girl, would love to hear your thoughts!
In a nutshell, yes the saw likely could be repaired and it is strange that you broke so many teeth even after tempering. The first step in repairing it would be jointing the teeth down past all the broken teeth. Then you would have to figure out why so many teeth broke or cracked. Had the saw been sharpened and set before you got it? Any broken teeth when you got it? Any broken rakers? A saw with broken teeth is a good indication (but not always) that the the saw it too hard. Exactly how and how much of the teeth did you temper? How were you setting the teeth? Hammer? Saw set? Bending? How much were you setting the teeth? How far down were you trying to set the teeth? Check out this link for some ideas I've used on setting very hard teeth (without tempering): www.bchw.org/Tech%20tips/sharpening/Saw%20Reconditioning.htm
The saw looked near factory, no broken teeth, nothing broke during raker swaging either, all well till the tooth set. I started with a stanley 43 (which works well on all my smaller eastern CC saws) and after a break, tried hammer setting, which did the same, at that point I tempered with torch held at bottom of each tooth til deep blue touched the tips. I was going for .012" which works well in our hardwoods here. I just stopped after breaking 1/3 of the teeth, it appears most teeth had an unseen crack anyway, and likely now the saw had cracked teeth from some early setting long ago? Its tough to remove 3/8" from a whole saw, but it may save her from being a wall hanger at least...
The teeth could have been cracked from setting years ago. I've see that, in this saw: www.bchw.org/Tech%20tips/sharpening/IMG_7027a.jpg If you have an power tools or grinder you may be able to grind off most that needs removed if you are careful not to get it too hot.
Interesting vid, thank you for showing. 👍😀 A few questions... Isn’t The Katana boy blade designed to cut both cross cut and also along the grain? [so is the Silky more versatile ?] Also the Silky blades are tapered to avoid pinching. Is this affected by the log width? [only mentioned it because of the differing results on the large and small log] How often does the cross cut saw need to be resharpened ? [the silky blades need to be re-sharpen by a specialist with specially hardened tools but they are design to last for ages before this is required] And also the biggest issue for a hand saw is how much effort is required to operate it so which was easier? [you seemed to be puffing a bit and changed sides with the silky so did it take more effort than the cross cut ?] [and was the difference in effort the same on the small log?] The silky is designed as an arborists tool for pruning and can fit in the gaps between branches and limbs to select which branch you want to cut. Also it is designed to cut branches that are at long reach and overhead. [so do you think that gives it an advantage.?] ... portability...... Which saw it the heavier?, how easily are they to carry and transport?, how do you protect the exposed sharp edges on the cross cut saw?, the Silky blades can be broken so would you carry spare blades? And lastly the Silky is a foldable saw so can you compare a fixed bladed saw to a folding saw? ... Only asking 🙂
Cool video, Jim. I was surprised on the 12" log when it looked like the Katanaboy was going to win until about 1/3 of the way into the cut and the Crosscut took over. Sorta like watching a fight scene in a movie when the "bad guy" gets the upper hand at first, but eventually looses to the "good guy" in the end. Do you suppose the difference between the saws is similar to the theory of using a skip-tooth chain in a power saw, where the greater distance between the teeth supposedly give the chips more room to collect and prevent clogging in longer cuts?
The size of the gullets could have something to to with it. I see that they are working on a 1000 mm Katanaboy and that saw has larger teeth near the far end. Probably to clear cuttings better. The other problem with the longer kerf near the middle of the log is that there just is not enough down pressure to get it to bite in.
Great video, Jim. I’m impressed with your sawbuck. Do you have any plans that you would be willing to share, please? When the log gets to a shorter length, how do you support it to make the final cut? Thank you
Maybe someone can give me or let me borrow a Katanaboy 1000 and I could compare the two. With the cost of a Katanaboy 1000 about ten times what a traditional saw can be found for, I likely will not be buying one soon.
Pentex - Please let me know what you want to say via this link. Just because I generally don't click on links without any sort of inclination toward what the intention is. Thanks so much!
Great video, I have the old traditional saws and I have been thinking I need the new katana boy for my horse packing and bugout bag. I can really see an advantage due to size but I no longer think my old saws are obsolete. Thank you
Wow Jim, nice to see a video from you. Quick question: I'm looking to upgrade my wood cutting tools, and I'm thinking of Granfors Bruks for the splitting maul, and Helko Werk for the felling axe. Any thoughts or reviews of these two brands?
I've used a monster maul for about 40 years. It is heavy and has enough angle so it never gets stuck. Do a Google search for monster maul. If I get something that the Monster maul will not break apart (not very often) I resort to a generic splitting maul and sledge hammer. I don't really know about modern mauls and axes. I use vintage axes too. If you want to see the monster maul in action see my crosscut saw firewood video: ruclips.net/video/Y1xykGoOEzA/видео.html
Interesting. An important note: on the USFS where I work, to use a crosscut, one has to be certified, a day course, that has to be repeated every 2 years, in addition to a current CPR and first aid cert. None of that is needed for a silky
Not a fair comparison due to size differences in blades. You’ll need to test the katana 750 or 1,000 vs. a similar sized traditional saw. Also the traditional saws need regular sharpening which should be equated in total times.
Yes the cost should be factored in also. A traditional saw can be found for a fraction of the cost of a Katanaboy. When I made this video the 1000 was not available. I'm still waiting for someone to give me one to test. I'm not going to buy one, they are too expensive.
Yes, it is an Estwing. My favorite axe for packing any distance. The handle is a little light for underbucking but still works. www.pbase.com/jimthode/image/164104497
I was cutting a green Red Alder. It is quite soft and common in the Pacific NW USA. I would expect your champion to be a little slower because it is likely a shorter saw and the wood is a little harder. Also how sharp it is and how it is filed will make a lot of difference.
@@jimthode Thanks for the reply. Yes, I thought it is alder, very soft. My saw is probably german, taper ground, 55 inch long, set to 0,008, rakers to 0,012 (with 0,004 tolerance). Freshly sharpened, some of the noodles are almost 2 inches long.
What tooth patterns are used for wet wood and can they be used on dry too or is there a tooth that does both. Im concidering giving my chainsaw a miss next winter. Thank you for showing what can be done.
Yes, in general the crosscut saw tooth pattern can cut both green and dry wood. If a sawyer was cutting only one kind of wood they could sharpen it for preform best in the wood they were cutting.
Jim Thode i cant buy a saw like that in the uk can you recomend a online site in the US. The logs i want to cut are half that size what size saw do you think would be best. I will be using it on my own. Thank you
Jim Thode this is the only new saw i can buy www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/acatalog/One_and_Two_Man_Cross_Cut_Saw.html#SID=446. Any advice you can give is really appreciated
Cool video but did you try not pushing down so much on the Katanaboy. By Letting it do the work. I saw you change sides. You could be slowing the cutting by adding unnecessary friction and heat.
You can find a bunch of info on using and caring to crosscuts at: www.bchw.org/Tech%20tips/SawCertification/BCHW%20Saw%20Cert.htm Under the "USFS Manuals and other support information" section, scroll down.
Which one can I put in my pack? Which one can I climb a tree with. Which one can cut better horizontally? Which one can I cut overhead with? It's a bit of an impractical test since the Silky saws are traditionally arborist saws, not lumberjack saws. A more legit test, as some have mentioned, would be comparing the crosscut saw to the Katanaboy 1000.
Both saws have their advantages and disadvantages, just depends on the job at hand. I don't know about cutting horizontally/falling. It is obvious for falling larger trees, the crosscut would be the best tool but maybe for smaller trees the Katanaboy would be better. Here is my crosscut falling video: ruclips.net/video/-0uv7ZnCC6o/видео.html
First log was you was moving katanaboy too slow, and equally pushing it both ways but kataboy is working on a pull only, so ypu just don`t know how to use it properly, and if you`d know than it would be much faster, maybe not faster than traditional saw but definetely not twice the time of traditional saw.
Yeah he wasn't using the katanaboy properly, I use more of a seesaw motion, handle tilted upwards when pushing forward, handle tilted down with a sharp pull downwards when pulling towards me, whereas this video its all just horizontal back and forth, and doesn't appear like he's taking advantage of his posture to put weight on the saw on the pull stroke. Definitely can't beat that giant crosscut saw, but much faster than this video suggests when in capable hands.
Skill does play a part in this. Get the right rythem with the big cross cut and you'll cut on the push and pull stroke. The Silkey cuts on the pull. And for dead wood I'd use the cross cut. Silkey was ment for green wood. Such as what arborists do. Longevity also plays a role in this. I know I'd rather sharpen or repair the cross cut saw rather than the Silkey.
Interesting video Jim..Many years ago I used to stalk deer on sitka spruce forestry blocks up in Scotland. Very often we would drive into an area on the only forestry road and there was always a danger o finding a windfall blocking our way when trying to drive out a couple of days later.A few of the guys had small cheap consumer grade "garden" chainsaws (12" or 14" bars) "just in case" where as I carried a 30" bow saw in my vehicle...A Katanboy 500 or 650 would have been a nice alternative, but I would have found it hard to justify the additional cost. I know nothing about cross cut saws, so would like to ask do they come in say 36 or 48" models as I suspect the would be a better alternative to the bowsaw without being either crazy expensive, (katanaboy) or bulky, unreliable and smelly (cheap chicom chainsaw)
One man crosscut saw are common in 3', 3 1/2" and 4' lengths. I normally carry a 3' to 5' saw in my vehicle when in the forest for the same reason you are talking about. For some general information about crosscut saw, see: www.bchw.org/Tech%20tips/Crosscut%20Sharpening.htm
Yup, good video. But, which one you want to pack into the woods. Guess a variety of saws is good. Different tool for each job, but not all tools apply to the situation though it might be the better for the job. I'd rather carry the silky. If I'm in my truck then I can carry 2 to 10 different saws.
@@donlute3444 if you pick it up make sure to also buy the sidney rancher blade for drywood (it makes a big difference to use a good drywood blade on drywood compared to a allrounder blade)
Not a fair test on the first log, the centre of gravity was too close to the end of the sawhorse for the crosscut so it kept jumping about. If it was balanced firmer the crosscut won’t have been faster….oh wait!😅
Can you compare it with a Katanaboy 1000, it has a longer blade and the teeth design is different too. It's small near the heel and it get bigger at the tip of the saw.
For the smaller log they were about the same effort required. For the 12" log the Katanaboy was a lot harder then the crosscut. For larger cuts the traditional saw just has better ergonomics. The main force on the crosscut saw is directly inline with the elbow and that follows through to the shoulder. The Katanaboy is not directly inline with the strongest part of the arm.
@@jimthode ,.. thanks for the reply and excellent video comparison. I looked at my 650 and they call it an XL rated at 4ppi. I don’t understand the alphabet soup of ppi vs tip? Teeth per inch (tip) would make better sense. I think it has something to do with the graduated cut of the teeth? I agree with another commenter that an S1000 would have been a better comparison. I found it interesting that the 650 compared closely or exceeded performance on the smaller material. Other comparison would be the required saw maintenance with the Silky hardened teeth. Maybe some good fodder for a part two?
@@Doc.Holiday When I did this video the 1000mm was not available. Now based on the cost I likely will not buy one to test, I can but several serviceable crosscut saws for what one 1000mm one would cost.
The 650 is not clearing chips effectively on the larger log. Your strokes could be a little longer to improve this, but it probably still wouldn't beat the big crosscut.
@@nogglebeak hah, I completely forgot why I made that comment, I bought the 650 when it was brand new 2 years ago and paid (I think) 240.00. from Canadian preparedness. Since then I've bought 3 more silkys and a replacement blade for a zubat i ran into a nail while cutting. the 650 is a very very good saw!
Just depends on the job at hand. I have packed the crosscut many miles and used it to cut over 3 ft diameter logs. If I just had very logs the Katanaboy would make sense.
@@jimthode I love the history and just how excellent craftsmans tools where made and used, for me as a recreational hiker/woodsman and not a feller or arborist i only use a saw so large for clearing trail and making furniture. Often I'll only carry a 210mm folding saw, anything more is much more than I need and with a rifle, hammock, fire kit water filter yada yada yada it adds up pretty quick. If I were going in to work the woods, yeah. Bring the best tools, lets carry that big ol' saw all the way in because at the end of the day we'll have more to show with far less energy spent. The downsides of carrying a saw like that silky, as you demonstrate here with great aplomb, are half the length, while cutting half the time. Energy NOT spent carrying the saw is spent twice over using it. At least when larger logs are involved
wouldnt make a big difference because the stroke lengh on that type of saw wouldnt be a lot longer. For this type of job the folding saws are just a lot inferior because of their ergonomics. You will get tired a lot faster.
Both do the job well as they were intended, but one has to bear in mind the size of the teeth on each saw, portability, and to some extent...the physical abilities of the individual users. Katanaboy 650 wins in the portability range and I probably wouldn't use it for logs above 8 or 10 Inches in diameter. The Crosscut is heavier and with much larger teeth, and would be better suited for a heavier saw that requires little portability or is conveniently handy in the back of a pickup truck! Katanboy 650 was never intended to be used as a "work grade" sort of handsaw, but only as a portable outdoorsmen's tool for light cutting purposes! Otherwise...a great comparison between the two different saws. Both are awesome by design!!! .
Pointless to compare "speed". What is important is how long the blade will perform at a reasonably high level, before needing to be sharpened or replaced.
I've cut 5 cords of firewood with a crosscut before needing any sharpening. I don't know about a Katanaboy but I do know that a quality crosscut would cost a few times less.
Maybe someone can give me or let me borrow a Katanaboy 1000 and I could compare the two. With the cost of a Katanaboy 1000 about ten times what a traditional saw can be found for, I likely will not be buying one soon.
ruclips.net/video/LJ56bB13GM8/видео.html Take a look at the Katanaboy 1000 it would totally whip the old school American fatboy. Put it to a test with the same speed and intensity in sawing.
Хобби
Great vid, you should try the Katanaboy 1000 its probably a much closer comparison because of the length.
I have a huge collection of over 100 crosscut saws and now i start to restore them part of your a mazing idea ,thanx for that demonstration.
That crosscut saw was crazy sharp! I've read about long shavings from a crosscut and now I've seen it. In the larger logs the crosscut looks a lot more comfortable to use, and pace yourself with. Great video!
CTSCAPER - By definition, cross-cutting does not produce long shavings.....😉
you should watch single buck competitions. Those competition saws are carzy expensive and sharp.
Yep, that's why I have 5 silky saws, 4 cross cuts and 4 chainsaws. Every saw has it's purpose. I like a different saw depending on what I'm cutting and the situation.
D K - 100% agree.
Boys with “toys”? I also have a like collection. Hard working tools are fun!
I love my silky saws and I love my crosscut saws both for different reasons. The thing that the silky will never do is sing and I am okay with that. There is nothing quite like the music of a properly tuned crosscut saw. Thanks Jim.
For the Katanaboy 650 saw being about a third the size of the other saw, the time on the larger log is not too bad.
Thanks for this. The 650 seems like the happy medium between the smaller saws and the 1000. As much as I love using crosscuts, they are an obstacle to carry for long distances. That 650 looks like it would fold up and pack tight, keeping my hands free for hiking poles. I think a 650 is in my near future.
650 is fantastic, worth every penny. I've cut about 2 cords of wood with it since receiving it in April, and I only go out every once in a while, other than removing some tree resin which was gumming it up the thing cuts as good as the day I bought it.
You won’t regret. I’ve cut a lot with mine and it lives behind the seat of my truck for emergency blow down trees. For that task a chain saw, fuel, oil and protective gear would take too much space. I’d suggest you pair it with a single hand pull saw for smaller tasks that require a hand to stabilize the material you want to cut but be careful.
@@Doc.Holiday Got one. They're lightning on softwood but chatter on a dry dead ash.
Interesting comparison across multiple log diameters. The katana boy 1000 though... It's massive and made available to the public for a while now.
extensive testing an open mind and the "trying to see the brightside for viewers" very well made don't even care much about saws and I just hit subscribe gj
Portabilty is the deciding factor for me. I really appreciate your comparison, fella. Thumbs up!
Both are amazing saws but only one you can take camping with you. Great video man!!!
I'd take a bow saw or a cheap hardware store hardpoint saw camping. Let's be realistic - if you have a 20 inch hardware store push saw, you can saw more wood than you'll burn, and you won't feel like you have to protect it.
David W - Do you mean protection from theft?
@@daw162 Who knows. Some disaster might happen and your friend is stuck under a big tree. Your bow saw is limited by its length. Face it, Silky is the next evolution.
you wont take either for backpacking and for car camping it doesnt make a difference
Cut 10 of those 6" logs and see which one is faster.
Great comparison and to the point. Thank you
I still like the Katanaboy 650. You can still put it in a backpack. Pretty rare I need to cut a twelve inch log in 57 seconds.
faster and less effort.
@@robertopics But too bulky to carry long distances.
@@MrDosonhai why would you carry a katanaboy 650 a long distance? Already way oversized for backpacking.
Great video, thanks Jim.
Thank you for sharing this information Jim. By the way, I had no idea you have a RUclips channel. I would have subscribed a lot earlier... :) anyway, i can't wait to get home and see more of your videos and looking forward to see more of them in the future. 😊👋
both are awesome tools
Thanks, that was a cool comparison!
Thank you. Great comparison.
As always GREAT VIDEO!!! I use your videos and examples as a benchmark for my efforts to learn and sharpen and use these old crosscut saws. We fell and cut firewood with them almost explusively here on the homestead. Here in the Apps we cut mostly hardwoods, oak and hickory and such. Would there be anything different you would do in sharpening for hardwood cutting?
Yes, filing for hardwood is a little different then soft woods. In general for hardwoods the cutters are a little more blunt and not as pointed. Also the rakers depth below the cutters would likely be a little less for hardwoods. You can find some references at: www.bchw.org/Tech%20tips/Crosscut%20Sharpening.htm
I just bought the Katana boy 650 and am looking forward to using it.
Great video. The Silky makes a great backpacking saw but not sure I would cut a log that thick !!
What a great video,
Righteous.
I live in 'clear cut land' so there are no Forties left. The K-boy will suffice, and will pack into my truck better than the trad-cut saw.
Thank you very much for the comparison in multiple applications.
One advantage of the SIlky is that you can carry it in your backpack.
Good video.
Great video! I really want a crosscut saw.
The katanaboy 1000 is a much better fit for the size of the log you are cutting. The teeth are significantly bigger on the 1000 Vs 650. It is not slightly better but significantly better.
You spend most of the energy on changing direction so the bigger the blade the more wood cut per stroke and the more efficient you are. This is why with the crosscut you plow through the log having more than twice the blade length. Not only that but think how much blade is left after you substract the width of the log on both of the saws. You are also more experienced with the crosscut or so it seems to me.
Thing is the silky 1000 is quite expensive but it really is better. Look it up on Canadian Prepper's channel as he does some tests. He even extended a call for a cutting contest.
One disadvantage the Katanaboy has is that it only cuts on the pull stroke. The traditional saw cuts on both the pull and push stroke. It would interesting to test a Katanaboy 1000, it would likely cut faster then the 650. If someone would send me one or if an able bodied Katanaboy saywer would show up here with one, we could put it to a real test.
@@jimthode this is how all slikyes cut, on the pull but but with a crazy sharp blade. Talk to Canadian Prepper and maybe you can sort something out. First check his relevant videos. He knows his saws!
Good video
Just ordered my 650. Can't wait to take it out to the Pasayten Wilderness, a target-rich environment.
Jim, I recently restored a nice perforated lance tooth and all was well till the tooth setting, tips kept braking off even after all teeth being tempered to blue with a torch…those that didnt break often had a crack, almost all teeth had a crack or broke about 1/4" from the tip. Have you ever seen this? Any idea the cause? Could the saw be salvaged if filled down past this magical break line on the teeth? Or just a write-off due to factory error in metal or temper you think?
Id love to save the saw, its a nicely tapered old girl, would love to hear your thoughts!
In a nutshell, yes the saw likely could be repaired and it is strange that you broke so many teeth even after tempering. The first step in repairing it would be jointing the teeth down past all the broken teeth. Then you would have to figure out why so many teeth broke or cracked.
Had the saw been sharpened and set before you got it? Any broken teeth when you got it? Any broken rakers? A saw with broken teeth is a good indication (but not always) that the the saw it too hard.
Exactly how and how much of the teeth did you temper?
How were you setting the teeth? Hammer? Saw set? Bending?
How much were you setting the teeth?
How far down were you trying to set the teeth?
Check out this link for some ideas I've used on setting very hard teeth (without tempering):
www.bchw.org/Tech%20tips/sharpening/Saw%20Reconditioning.htm
The saw looked near factory, no broken teeth, nothing broke during raker swaging either, all well till the tooth set. I started with a stanley 43 (which works well on all my smaller eastern CC saws) and after a break, tried hammer setting, which did the same, at that point I tempered with torch held at bottom of each tooth til deep blue touched the tips. I was going for .012" which works well in our hardwoods here. I just stopped after breaking 1/3 of the teeth, it appears most teeth had an unseen crack anyway, and likely now the saw had cracked teeth from some early setting long ago?
Its tough to remove 3/8" from a whole saw, but it may save her from being a wall hanger at least...
The teeth could have been cracked from setting years ago. I've see that, in this saw:
www.bchw.org/Tech%20tips/sharpening/IMG_7027a.jpg
If you have an power tools or grinder you may be able to grind off most that needs removed if you are careful not to get it too hot.
Nice comparison
Interesting vid, thank you for showing. 👍😀
A few questions...
Isn’t The Katana boy blade designed to cut both cross cut and also along the grain?
[so is the Silky more versatile ?]
Also the Silky blades are tapered to avoid pinching. Is this affected by the log width?
[only mentioned it because of the differing results on the large and small log]
How often does the cross cut saw need to be resharpened ?
[the silky blades need to be re-sharpen by a specialist with specially hardened tools but they are design to last for ages before this is required]
And also the biggest issue for a hand saw is how much effort is required to operate it so which was easier?
[you seemed to be puffing a bit and changed sides with the silky so did it take more effort than the cross cut ?]
[and was the difference in effort the same on the small log?]
The silky is designed as an arborists tool for pruning and can fit in the gaps between branches and limbs to select which branch you want to cut.
Also it is designed to cut branches that are at long reach and overhead.
[so do you think that gives it an advantage.?]
... portability......
Which saw it the heavier?, how easily are they to carry and transport?, how do you protect the exposed sharp edges on the cross cut saw?, the Silky blades can be broken so would you carry spare blades?
And lastly the Silky is a foldable saw so can you compare a fixed bladed saw to a folding saw?
...
Only asking 🙂
Cool video, Jim. I was surprised on the 12" log when it looked like the Katanaboy was going to win until about 1/3 of the way into the cut and the Crosscut took over. Sorta like watching a fight scene in a movie when the "bad guy" gets the upper hand at first, but eventually looses to the "good guy" in the end.
Do you suppose the difference between the saws is similar to the theory of using a skip-tooth chain in a power saw, where the greater distance between the teeth supposedly give the chips more room to collect and prevent clogging in longer cuts?
The size of the gullets could have something to to with it. I see that they are working on a 1000 mm Katanaboy and that saw has larger teeth near the far end. Probably to clear cuttings better. The other problem with the longer kerf near the middle of the log is that there just is not enough down pressure to get it to bite in.
Naaah... Only shows on whitch saw he has had more training, and therefore has more stamina on... He had to change sides on the Silky...
This boiled down to technique and strength.
Great video, Jim. I’m impressed with your sawbuck. Do you have any plans that you would be willing to share, please? When the log gets to a shorter length, how do you support it to make the final cut? Thank you
Trevor, See details of the sawbuck at:
www.pbase.com/jimthode/sawbuck_crosscut_saw
You will see a final cut and some ideas on dimensions.
The katanaboy 1000 might be a better match on those larger logs. Excellent comparison on these two saws.
Maybe someone can give me or let me borrow a Katanaboy 1000 and I could compare the two. With the cost of a Katanaboy 1000 about ten times what a traditional saw can be found for, I likely will not be buying one soon.
Jim Thode - Lol, I noticed that they are around $950!!!!😱😱😱 Holy SMOKES!!!! I'll pass.
You could buy two 650-Katanaboys, AND three cross-cuts for that money!!!
Pentex - Please let me know what you want to say via this link. Just because I generally don't click on links without any sort of inclination toward what the intention is. Thanks so much!
Pentex - Awesome! Thanks so much!👍
This test should be using Katanaboy 1000 instead of 650. It's not a fair test due to their vast difference on teeth size.
Great video, I have the old traditional saws and I have been thinking I need the new katana boy for my horse packing and bugout bag. I can really see an advantage due to size but I no longer think my old saws are obsolete. Thank you
Класс! Спасибо за видео - очень круто отражает весь смысл пил
It's funny, I see all these other videos cutting way faster than that
Wow Jim, nice to see a video from you. Quick question: I'm looking to upgrade my wood cutting tools, and I'm thinking of Granfors Bruks for the splitting maul, and Helko Werk for the felling axe. Any thoughts or reviews of these two brands?
I've used a monster maul for about 40 years. It is heavy and has enough angle so it never gets stuck. Do a Google search for monster maul. If I get something that the Monster maul will not break apart (not very often) I resort to a generic splitting maul and sledge hammer. I don't really know about modern mauls and axes. I use vintage axes too.
If you want to see the monster maul in action see my crosscut saw firewood video:
ruclips.net/video/Y1xykGoOEzA/видео.html
Interesting. An important note: on the USFS where I work, to use a crosscut, one has to be certified, a day course, that has to be repeated every 2 years, in addition to a current CPR and first aid cert. None of that is needed for a silky
Not a fair comparison due to size differences in blades. You’ll need to test the katana 750 or 1,000 vs. a similar sized traditional saw. Also the traditional saws need regular sharpening which should be equated in total times.
Yes the cost should be factored in also. A traditional saw can be found for a fraction of the cost of a Katanaboy. When I made this video the 1000 was not available. I'm still waiting for someone to give me one to test. I'm not going to buy one, they are too expensive.
Katanaboy 1000 looks like a weapon from a zombie movie
Молодец!Медленно,но верно!
nice 😎
I recently purchased the 650, it cuts great. Is that a Estwing axe? I own a few Estwing axes very good axes for sure. Thanks for sharing.
Yes, it is an Estwing. My favorite axe for packing any distance. The handle is a little light for underbucking but still works. www.pbase.com/jimthode/image/164104497
What kind of wood was it? I am cutting dry 12 inch pine now with my champion tooth pattern saw and it goes at least 3 times slower than in your video.
I was cutting a green Red Alder. It is quite soft and common in the Pacific NW USA. I would expect your champion to be a little slower because it is likely a shorter saw and the wood is a little harder. Also how sharp it is and how it is filed will make a lot of difference.
@@jimthode Thanks for the reply. Yes, I thought it is alder, very soft. My saw is probably german, taper ground, 55 inch long, set to 0,008, rakers to 0,012 (with 0,004 tolerance). Freshly sharpened, some of the noodles are almost 2 inches long.
What tooth patterns are used for wet wood and can they be used on dry too or is there a tooth that does both. Im concidering giving my chainsaw a miss next winter. Thank you for showing what can be done.
Yes, in general the crosscut saw tooth pattern can cut both green and dry wood. If a sawyer was cutting only one kind of wood they could sharpen it for preform best in the wood they were cutting.
Jim Thode i cant buy a saw like that in the uk can you recomend a online site in the US. The logs i want to cut are half that size what size saw do you think would be best. I will be using it on my own. Thank you
Jim Thode this is the only new saw i can buy www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/acatalog/One_and_Two_Man_Cross_Cut_Saw.html#SID=446. Any advice you can give is really appreciated
Jim Thode i will be the only person know that will be using one so have no one else ask
Cool video but did you try not pushing down so much on the Katanaboy. By Letting it do the work. I saw you change sides. You could be slowing the cutting by adding unnecessary friction and heat.
where can we buy Traditional crosscut saw?
Thanks
Thats Katanaboy is ceazy 😳 Such a tiny saw but very powerful
Jim I found an old cross cut saw for sale. Where can I learn how to use it.
You can find a bunch of info on using and caring to crosscuts at: www.bchw.org/Tech%20tips/SawCertification/BCHW%20Saw%20Cert.htm
Under the "USFS Manuals and other support information" section, scroll down.
Jim Thode thank you!!!’n
I am going say he was tired from the big saw going first
It would take a lot more then one cut to get me tired. See:
ruclips.net/video/Y1xykGoOEzA/видео.html
Which one can I put in my pack? Which one can I climb a tree with. Which one can cut better horizontally? Which one can I cut overhead with? It's a bit of an impractical test since the Silky saws are traditionally arborist saws, not lumberjack saws. A more legit test, as some have mentioned, would be comparing the crosscut saw to the Katanaboy 1000.
Both saws have their advantages and disadvantages, just depends on the job at hand. I don't know about cutting horizontally/falling. It is obvious for falling larger trees, the crosscut would be the best tool but maybe for smaller trees the Katanaboy would be better. Here is my crosscut falling video:
ruclips.net/video/-0uv7ZnCC6o/видео.html
WHAT IF"YOU HAVE A KATANABOY AS BIG AS CROSSCUT SAW?
First log was you was moving katanaboy too slow, and equally pushing it both ways but kataboy is working on a pull only, so ypu just don`t know how to use it properly, and if you`d know than it would be much faster, maybe not faster than traditional saw but definetely not twice the time of traditional saw.
Yeah he wasn't using the katanaboy properly, I use more of a seesaw motion, handle tilted upwards when pushing forward, handle tilted down with a sharp pull downwards when pulling towards me, whereas this video its all just horizontal back and forth, and doesn't appear like he's taking advantage of his posture to put weight on the saw on the pull stroke. Definitely can't beat that giant crosscut saw, but much faster than this video suggests when in capable hands.
Skill does play a part in this. Get the right rythem with the big cross cut and you'll cut on the push and pull stroke. The Silkey cuts on the pull. And for dead wood I'd use the cross cut. Silkey was ment for green wood. Such as what arborists do.
Longevity also plays a role in this. I know I'd rather sharpen or repair the cross cut saw rather than the Silkey.
Interesting video Jim..Many years ago I used to stalk deer on sitka spruce forestry blocks up in Scotland. Very often we would drive into an area on the only forestry road and there was always a danger o finding a windfall blocking our way when trying to drive out a couple of days later.A few of the guys had small cheap consumer grade "garden" chainsaws (12" or 14" bars) "just in case" where as I carried a 30" bow saw in my vehicle...A Katanboy 500 or 650 would have been a nice alternative, but I would have found it hard to justify the additional cost. I know nothing about cross cut saws, so would like to ask do they come in say 36 or 48" models as I suspect the would be a better alternative to the bowsaw without being either crazy expensive, (katanaboy) or bulky, unreliable and smelly (cheap chicom chainsaw)
One man crosscut saw are common in 3', 3 1/2" and 4' lengths. I normally carry a 3' to 5' saw in my vehicle when in the forest for the same reason you are talking about. For some general information about crosscut saw, see: www.bchw.org/Tech%20tips/Crosscut%20Sharpening.htm
Thanks Jim that’s much appreciated...will have a look at that link and see if there is anything suitable here in the uk...
Yup, good video. But, which one you want to pack into the woods. Guess a variety of saws is good. Different tool for each job, but not all tools apply to the situation though it might be the better for the job. I'd rather carry the silky. If I'm in my truck then I can carry 2 to 10 different saws.
carry into the woods? the boreal 21
@@martinerhard8447 boreal 21? I'll look into it.
@@donlute3444 if you pick it up make sure to also buy the sidney rancher blade for drywood (it makes a big difference to use a good drywood blade on drywood compared to a allrounder blade)
@@martinerhard8447 ok, be in a cabala, bass pro area in few days, see if I can't locate them. I'm remote the recluse area. Walmarts big time here.
Не равнозначное сравнение, но в целом ролик интересен.
Problem is traditionnal crosscut saws aren't made anymore and take an engineer's degree to sharpen.
Please, where are the pink wedges from???
Just a chainsaw wedge. They come in pink, orange or yellow. Should be the ones with a thin point for crosscut saw.
But where do you purchase them?
Merci....
Ok. But if you can only have one for homesteading... I'd have to choose the silky because of its portability.
Not a fair test on the first log, the centre of gravity was too close to the end of the sawhorse for the crosscut so it kept jumping about. If it was balanced firmer the crosscut won’t have been faster….oh wait!😅
Odachi va greatsword basically
Can you compare it with a Katanaboy 1000, it has a longer blade and the teeth design is different too. It's small near the heel and it get bigger at the tip of the saw.
I would guess that a 1000 may be a little faster then a 650 but they are not available yet, if ever.
it seems good ol fashioned american ingenuity has beaten modern computers, was the simonds easier to cut with?
For the smaller log they were about the same effort required. For the 12" log the Katanaboy was a lot harder then the crosscut. For larger cuts the traditional saw just has better ergonomics. The main force on the crosscut saw is directly inline with the elbow and that follows through to the shoulder. The Katanaboy is not directly inline with the strongest part of the arm.
👍👍👍👍🙏🙏💜💜💜
We’re you using the coarsest 4ppi blade on the 650?
Yes, I believe the the 650 I used had 4tpi.
@@jimthode ,.. thanks for the reply and excellent video comparison. I looked at my 650 and they call it an XL rated at 4ppi. I don’t understand the alphabet soup of ppi vs tip? Teeth per inch (tip) would make better sense. I think it has something to do with the graduated cut of the teeth? I agree with another commenter that an S1000 would have been a better comparison. I found it interesting that the 650 compared closely or exceeded performance on the smaller material. Other comparison would be the required saw maintenance with the Silky hardened teeth. Maybe some good fodder for a part two?
@@Doc.Holiday When I did this video the 1000mm was not available. Now based on the cost I likely will not buy one to test, I can but several serviceable crosscut saws for what one 1000mm one would cost.
@@jimthode ,… understood.
The 650 is not clearing chips effectively on the larger log.
Your strokes could be a little longer to improve this, but it probably still wouldn't beat the big crosscut.
one you can afford and find, the other you can not.
I bought a katanaboy 650 for $140 like 3 months ago... they were not hard to find nor particularly expensive.
@@nogglebeak hah, I completely forgot why I made that comment, I bought the 650 when it was brand new 2 years ago and paid (I think) 240.00. from Canadian preparedness. Since then I've bought 3 more silkys and a replacement blade for a zubat i ran into a nail while cutting.
the 650 is a very very good saw!
cool but the silky folds and u can have a big reach to...more travel ready
Now which would you rather pack along on foot? Yup.
Just depends on the job at hand. I have packed the crosscut many miles and used it to cut over 3 ft diameter logs. If I just had very logs the Katanaboy would make sense.
@@jimthode I love the history and just how excellent craftsmans tools where made and used, for me as a recreational hiker/woodsman and not a feller or arborist i only use a saw so large for clearing trail and making furniture.
Often I'll only carry a 210mm folding saw, anything more is much more than I need and with a rifle, hammock, fire kit water filter yada yada yada it adds up pretty quick.
If I were going in to work the woods, yeah. Bring the best tools, lets carry that big ol' saw all the way in because at the end of the day we'll have more to show with far less energy spent.
The downsides of carrying a saw like that silky, as you demonstrate here with great aplomb, are half the length, while cutting half the time. Energy NOT spent carrying the saw is spent twice over using it. At least when larger logs are involved
Goddamn, that looks like the saw Jesus used
I'm gonna get the 5' Simonds for my minimalist bushcraft kit.
Was ist das für eine Axt am Anfang?
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Estwing Campers Axe
I LIKE THE CROSSCUTSAW COZ I CAN CARRY IT INSIDE MY CAMPING BAG"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
How would a Japanese man actually use the saw? Perhaps more of the body weight and legs on the stroke.
Katanaboy 1000
2:30
The katana boy is also not serviceable the other saw I can be sharpened by hand
He's not using the katanaboy 1000 I'd like to see the 1000 versus the bucking saw
wouldnt make a big difference because the stroke lengh on that type of saw wouldnt be a lot longer.
For this type of job the folding saws are just a lot inferior because of their ergonomics. You will get tired a lot faster.
Both do the job well as they were intended, but one has to bear in mind the size of the teeth on each saw, portability, and to some extent...the physical abilities of the individual users.
Katanaboy 650 wins in the portability range and I probably wouldn't use it for logs above 8 or 10 Inches in diameter.
The Crosscut is heavier and with much larger teeth, and would be better suited for a heavier saw that requires little portability or is conveniently handy in the back of a pickup truck!
Katanboy 650 was never intended to be used as a "work grade" sort of handsaw, but only as a portable outdoorsmen's tool for light cutting purposes!
Otherwise...a great comparison between the two different saws.
Both are awesome by design!!!
.
I don't think that was a fair test. The speed is in the length of the stroke and the upper saw had a much longer blade.
half the time twice the size. I'll take the compatibility with that bit of extra time and less sharpening of teeth.
I feel like the blade length makes a difference on that first cut, but I would still way rather have my crosscut saw over a silky
not a fair test the silky was half the size,
Yes, half the size but several times the cost.
yep not the cheapest tool in the box
Also I thought that he had more strength and speed with the big saw. Naaah something is not correct here.
The traditional saw just has better ergonomics and cuts on both the push and pull stroke. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.
At first i thought bucksaw was slower....
Pointless to compare "speed". What is important is how long the blade will perform at a reasonably high level, before needing to be sharpened or replaced.
I've cut 5 cords of firewood with a crosscut before needing any sharpening. I don't know about a Katanaboy but I do know that a quality crosscut would cost a few times less.
A 5' saw blade vs a 19" saw blade is not a comparison
It isn’t a “fair” race but for those trying to decide which to use/buy/take to clear trail I think it’s very informative.
Try the same thing with a katanaboy 1000
Maybe someone can give me or let me borrow a Katanaboy 1000 and I could compare the two. With the cost of a Katanaboy 1000 about ten times what a traditional saw can be found for, I likely will not be buying one soon.
@@jimthode Understandable it's very expensive but it would be a way more fair comparison though
A traditional Madonokogiri would be more competitive than the modern katana boy. Don't know if it would "win" but it would be closer.
7.4 секунт когда пилилил береза была на половину подрезана обман😂😂😂
Larger than*
なぜカタナボーイ1000を使わない？
カタナボーイ1000を使ってみませんか？
ビデオが作成されたときには利用できません。
お金が多すぎる。
ruclips.net/video/LJ56bB13GM8/видео.html
Take a look at the Katanaboy 1000 it would totally whip the old school American fatboy. Put it to a test with the same speed and intensity in sawing.
You oiled the crosscut saw didn't you? I've used saws enough to know you didn't do a fair comparison. Japanese hand saws are always superior.