Simon Jordan & Martin Keown DEBATE If Gareth Southgate’s 7 Years With England Have Been Successful 👀
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- Опубликовано: 28 апр 2024
- TalkSPORT's Simon Jordan and Martin Keown discuss England manager Gareth Southgate's seven years with the national team, and if they have been successful or not.
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Martin speaking bout England like hes explaining quantum physics 😂
Let's hope he doesn't venture over to the quantum physics channel😂
😂😂😂
I really dislike keown he is such a baby...esp when it doesn't go his way. Thinks he's clever and he isn't
@@Leehow80 I just don't see enough genuine sense or integrity from ex pros
Scared of the fratus lol
Human buttress
Martin calling Southgate an elite manager. What a joke.
He won't manage a Premiership club when he departs England.
Pathetic isn't it? Keown ....I can't stand this guy on air.
lol yes. Likely a good league 1 manager? lol
@@nigeats6733
Neither EFL Championship, the best he can get is EFL League 2 or Isthmian League division.
Bottom line Simon says what he sees and Martin sticks up for a mate.
The thing is Southgate is not a tactician, he never was.
He was appointed for his ability to keep the players bonded, removing the club bias.
The problem is that that can only take you so far, when you get to the key stages of competitions against similar quality players e.g vs France,Spain,etc then your tactical knowledge will have to come to the fore.
100%. I'd love to imagine what England would be like with a proper tactionist like pep or de zerbi. Gareth's in game tactics are always non-existent.
@@Sauvage_Foxes
Marcelo Bielsa will take England win the euro without the need of world class players.
Look at his past achievement with Chile and now Uruguay who defeat Argentina and Brazil each with 2-0 without the need a world class players.
He is a tactician, but he focuses that energy on his own PR.
“The problem is it can only take you so far”.
You are right. The second most successful manager ever. Semi finals, finals, qualifying for all tournaments with ease instead of just scraping through, not loosing a single game in a calendar year. The way we demolished Italy speaks for itself!
I’ve come to the conclusion that England fans are really really thick!
Lost to an Italy side that didn't manage to qualify to a world cup at home lost to France that lost its spine in Pogba kante matudi n Benzema
Calling Southgate Elite is funny 😂😂
Southgate saved from the calibre of Bellingham, Kane, Saka. If England does not has this kind of calibre, England will never progress to world cup semi and Euro final world cup quarter by only depending on Southgaye rainbow tactical knowledge. 🤣🤣🤣
And another factor is the all time overhyped premier league.
If all England players were based on non-premier league then i'm more convince England will a World cup or Euro.
My best one was when Iceland and Croatia beat England. The commentators didn't know where to hide
@@shannonnaicker4040
Entire premier league was shocked.. 🤣🤣
Thanks for adding to the debate@@shannonnaicker4040
There’s no way Gareth Southgate would get a top 10 managerial post in the Premier League
Would Fernando Santos? Jogi Lowe? Lionel Scaloni? International football is a different ball game for managers
Martin doesn't seem to grasp that using Kane & Bellingham's club form as an argument is proof exactly of Southgate not being a top manager, outstanding players look average in an England shirt time and again, getting easy rides to latter stages of tournaments is a weak argument to hide behind when we keep losing to the first above average opposition we face in tournaments.
Because a team's success if 80% decided by the quality of the players on the field and our squad is mid to above average, has been for the last 30 years
Let's not forget Kane is playing in a fairly easy league.
I totally agree with Simon ,Southgate clearly hasn’t got the tactical nous during the big games
I'm an Arsenal man, Keown is a legend. But before I even watch this video, I'm guessing he will brown nose Southgate, and the lads blah blah, it seems he only does that to get exclusive access to the group.
You were right. Yes, he brown nosed him. Again.
He wouldnt take him at arsenal, but he is an elite coach!
@@bobbypukes605Fuck me it was exactly how I thought it would be and more. His old mate Southgate basically. How Keown ha a job in punditry is beyond me, all facade. He said he was an elite manager because he's managing England hahaha I guess he'll also be calling McLaren elite then, too?
@@DanielS10291 Yeah that was embarrassing. He pretty much admitted he wouldn't take him at Arsenal when he deflected answering the question and posed it to Jordan about Palace instead.
Yes
Its the players that make southgate look good. Glen hoddle would of won alot more with this crop of players
My word Martin can waffle
Something that confuses me is that many pundits and other people in the media will say that England have the best squad in the world and Southgate is a great manager but England have won nothing so surely that means one or both of those statements is wrong.
Never believe what pundits and journalists in England have to say about the English national team. Every 2 years they think they are the best. But they never win anything
the french squad is miles ahead anyway
You done 1+1 and came up with 2 but some people will not agree with your math.
But ultimately he has a point . England have won nothing since 1966 and that a fact . I don’t agree you can be called an elite manager when you not won anything. Will Southgate prove Simon wrong unlikely .
The problem with England team is bad luck. having tactically top class manager but without proper top class talent while having a bunch of top class talent but without tactically top class manager.
I think the fault should be on the Fa.
Wouldn’t people just make up excuses of england perform terribly when under expectation or something?
Simple, it’s not been, no trophies
"Martin Keown isn't backing the courage of his conviction. He's putting himself into an invidious position. An absolute berk" - Simon Jordan
I reckon you've over egged the pudding with that one
Dollars for donuts!
Hes not even wearing top clobber
What's that got to do with the price of cheese??
You've snatched defeat from the jaws of victory
Martin is missing the point. Most are in agreement that Southgate has done a bang up job except as a Manager when he is required to be bold, to take a risk. He freezes and blinks when the risk feels too high.
I dont think most people think that. He is wasting this talented squad like Simon says. Its like if Southgate was managing the Man City team playing against Championship and League 1 teams in the FA Cup then in the QF they play a Top 6 team and lose because of his idiot decisions. Same thing with England.
Is Martin on here for a joke? He’s embarrassing himself in every argument
Yes
He doesn't even pay attention when others speak. Just sitting with his face down taking notes.
Honestly I think England did well in those tournaments despite Southgate. He sets the team up as boring as possible with very minimal tactics and relies on moments of magic from his players. When proper managers change their tactics he has no idea how to respond, the 2018 semi final against Croatia and the 2020 final against Italy are proof of this. Did England win any tournaments? No. So has he been successful? If success is winning nothing, creating a buddy buddy work environment and conning the media then yes he has been successful.
Ouch 😢
I feel the frustration through this comment.. I understand your pain brother.. all the best next year
Despite Southgate ? idiotic comment of the day
Said a lot but a bunch of nothing. Since when did we count not winning trophies as success...
I think you put most capable managers in charge of this England team and give them the luck Southgate has had, they'd do as well if not better.
With their season so far , Kane and Bellingham are probably the 2 frontrunners for next balon dor. Then we factor the other stars in the team. This is a golden generation! Not winning in 4 tournaments is absolutely a failure
Its been over 2 years but we should have beat italy in that european final. We was up early in the game and instead of trying to stamp our authority onit from that point we just took our foot of the gas and allowed italy to come back into the game. An after 25 minutes of that match it was like we was waiting for italy to score because they controlled the game from that point and southgate didn't go in at half time and change anything up and hes done that a few times which is a problem.. the french game aswell was winnable but again sat back and allowed the other team to take control of the match with no adapting.
No acknowledgement from martin of the easy runs they have had in the tournament's, including a home one
True, they're like the Man City b4 the treble where they get easier draws but bottle it when it matters most.
Bullsh*t, every team at a major championship are tough
@davidmartin8835 couldn't agree more. Previous England would of lost to Colombia in 18 and Germany in 2021
@@davidmartin8835 deary me so panama , iran etc were tough? A poor germany side at Wembley, colombia without their best player, denmark in a semi final at Wembley. With the players he has he couldnt beat Scotland or the USA. He should have got to finals in all tournaments
Its may be a bit mean; but keown is often not the sharpest tool in the shed
Sir Simon = Top LAD Proper Clobber 💯 Facts
Eats Martin for breakfast. Easy victory for the DON once again. Simon = top LAD proper clobber
Came to the comments looking for lfcspectre4335 (Top Lad Propper Clobber, btw) and did not arrive disappointed 😂
@@LordMarps Your Welcome Top LAD Proper Clobber
I find watching England like watching paint dry....he has so many young talented players that play week in week out at a tempo that Gareth simply isn't willing to replicate at international level....you have Foden, Grealish, Bellingham, Rashford etc, all young, pacey, talented....and he makes them play like geriatrics....we should be steam rolling through teams and we always play this should we/shouldn't we football
I didn't realise it mattered when a team scored against you....we were 1-0 up against Italy and what we should have done is gone for them while they were still recovering and try to add a second but instead Southgate decided we needed to drop back and defend the league.
He wouldn't get a top ten job let alone a top six job. He's absolutely nowhere near an elite manager, elite is a very very small club.
The phrase elite and world class is thrown around too much these days.
In 2012 the FA changed youth development structure that led to England producing high quality players to levels never seen in the 150 year history. England have won more major youth tournaments in the last 5 years than they won for the previous 50 years. Southgate has had nothing to do with this and just been lucky that his time as manager has coincided with England highest quality pool of talent in their history and many of the major nations being in decline. Yet he is so bad he has been able to win anything in this prime time to win for England. There are to sets of England fans, the unambitious England fans who are just happy to be a good team that never wins anything and England fans who know if these group of players had a world class coach they would dominate would football. Do you think Pep would pick Henderson playing in the Saudi league? Of course
Martin is stealing a living
He’s entertaining tbf - and thats what talksport are going for 😂
wow , entertaining??...@@DanielS10291
Southgate wins that award 😂
Martin my fav guest. He brings out the best in Simon and Jim
I really enjoy listening to Simon. He makes sense very good points at times, but also seems to have an underlying resentment towards football.
By and large, I think most England fans (and there is a big distinction between England football fans, and Football fans) think he's done, and is doing a good job. It must be a hateful task to manage England.
Having been responsible for missing that Euro penalty, Gareth would be more determined than almost anyone else to try and make amends for that and get us a trophy.
Mancini would've beaten Italy with our squad, Deschamps would've beaten France with our squad and the Croat would've beaten Croatia with our squad. That's the simple truth.
Southgate has had 3 tournaments, he is peaking, do me a favour
Lets make an analysis on tournaments: World Cup 2018 we did really well as that was a limited squad we had and coming off the Iceland match from before. We took on one of the best ever Croatian sides and in the end it was too soon. No one expected much and we acheived well. A pass.
However fot the Euros we should have won that trophy but rarely played well. Yes we beat Germany 2-0, but we did so playing dull football and against Denmark we should have lost that game, very lucky to win that 2-1 with a dodgy pen decision. Against Italy in final we played anti football, sat back and sure we lost on pens but Italy were better team and that was because Mancini made the changes Gareth didnt. Considering we were hosts this is a fail.
World Cup 22, we played well in all our games and we were unlucky against France. We were the better team for large parts and Gareth perhaps should have made more changes, but it was such a 50-50 game. A fail because we should have made it further in tournament.
Overall: A failure for Gareths tenure
Agree with you on the whole but that is not a failure overall. Jeez I'm 38 and know where England sit, this period under Southgate has been a golden period.
And before people say it's all the players. We had more elite players between 2002 and 2008 and did far far worse
@lukesenior4563 I agree but disagree as i also think that such as 2006 squad we had a great first 11 but if u look at the overall squad it nowhere near has the depth across all positions as the current one has. Also we have players playing abroad now and our players are better tactically and more technical. We just a need a higher level manager now
Not winning anything with the crop of players at his disposal is a disgrace. Wrong selections, tactics, no bottle when it comes to big decisions. England always go in as big favourites, but never will win anything under Southgate.
The problems with England is the lack of tactically good manager/headcoach.
Those former England best who should be focus on coaching and learning to improve tactical knowledge were lazy capitalist. Rather than paid as world class headcoaches they are more interested on tantalizing huge sum of easy money by becoming television commentator or host. So basically every if not all English footballers were money basis and that's why English footballers always end up becoming mediocre when they reach above 23 years old.
😂😂
English footballers only described as world class in overhyped farmer premier league but outside English shores nobody rate english footballers higher than street footballers.
The exception is Bellingham who dare for the challenges playing in abroad and not coward kids who always stay in their comfort zone for "money".
Exactly people like Martin are just happy with moral victories.. Croatia,Italy and even France were all winnable games for us in them tournaments and we didnt win one so how is Southgate an elite manager
Or Capello or Sven or Hodgson.... Southgate has done a very good job. It's baffling some people can't accept that
@@lukesenior4563
Does English shores always produce wonderkids every decade? If not then when you have these group of wonderkids available as a manager you have to make sure you win a trophy because you will never have a chances anymore when the group of wonder talents are not available.
The players we have is because on their current managers and also because of their personal drive ; Southgate has nothing to do with it
My glass is realistic 😂😂😂😂 Southgate is not elite! He won’t deliver silverware ever.
We are always weak in certain areas it happens every time. This time around its central defence, defensive mid and back up to kane.
Love this show!! Simon and Martin are box office❤❤❤😂
Simon's like a cat playing with a half dead mouse.
I was pissing myself on my lunch break at this debate in my van 😂 Simon cracks me up man haha
Sometimes you want to hate Simon but you can't stop listening to him talking cause he's got all the twists and turns😂
7 years? Damn. 7. Wasted. Years.
Wasted?! Our best performance at tournaments pretty much since 1966, 90 and 96
We have just had 7 amazing years in the 100 years of English football
@@lukesenior4563 england is playing well because of great PLAYERS, with a MEDIOCRE MANAGER. a proper manager wouldve won atleast 2 trophies
@@lukesenior4563 7 years, 0 trophies. meanwhile Argentina, France etc are winning trophies during suthgates tenure. but sure, defend him
@@lukesenior4563wake up fella
@unknownname1941 yes 2 teams in the entire world won major trophies..... so anyone who didn't is a failure
Keown is insane!!!!!
Without the premier league managers during his tenure....England wouldn't even get a sniff of whatever they have done so far...give credit where it's coming from...you call players based on their form in the league...the knowledge they bring comes from their intelligent premier league gaffers
Southgate is still scarred from Euro 96
After watching England’s Dismal display against Malta with all respect, are not much better than a national league team to struggle to win two nil with the players we have available can only be laid at the feet of Southgate and he’s Unimaginative way of playing football
Look at the facts of Southgate's tenure in charge...He has done one thing very well, made England a collective and made the players want to be there and not back out like other Pros in the past!
As for the Semi final in 2018...easiest pathway in a world cup ever, we come up against a good Croatia side and we lose because he makes no positive changes and the team plays defensively for large amounts of the game after scoring first....there is a pattern here.... 2021 final....One of the easiest pathways to the final..Germany aren't the team they used to be! We score first in the final, England defender for 85 minutes or so, we lose!! A Pattern! Makes no positive changes until extra time and the players missing penalties get blamed!! 2022 Quarter final, England play well up until they face France one of the favourites! Again we lose but because when we got it back to 1-1 he didn't make proactive changes, he waited and countered what France done, we lost and Kane got the blame for missing a penalty! The simple fact is, any manager or coach could have got the same results as what Southgate did with those players because it was the talent of the squad that got us as far as we have, not the ability of the manager! And these are facts, you only have to look at Newcastle and the difference between Howe and Bruce! Yes Howe had a couple extra players but that still wouldn't turn the other dead wood into decent Prem players...it takes a skilled coach to do that....Southgate isn't that, his history has proven it. We will fail in the Euros again because when it comes to him having to make decisions for us to win he will always always always go back to type and go defensive to try and hold on! He was completely inadequate for the job in the first place and should have never kept the job longer than 1 or 2 games as caretaker!
Surely football is about winning not about fans. Fans are always there when winning not drawing in dreadful games
Is Keown's bank balance shrinking? Every time I see him on here it's like he's interviewing for a coach's job or a job with VAR. Absolutely incredible, from a grown man as well.
Martin sounds like Southgate ! "We're learn from that" when he loses competitive games . . No wrong man for the job
This is the period where pound for pound England has the players, better than anyone else in the world. No need for over cautious tactics in key games which invite the opposition to come at you [Croatia, Italy, France]. Southgate's 'hand break' approach will scupper England again unfortunately, in the latter stages of the finals, such a waste.
Pound for Pound? Idk about that. France have a better defence, an equal midfield and an equal attack (attack is arguable)
France are better and Portugal the same
What Martin fails to understand is that England is blessed with one of the best generations of attacking free flowing talent that England has ever seen.
Being held back by a pragmatic, underwhelming style of football that can only get you so far.
Southgate is below par and gets beaten by proper managers and proper teams when he meets them in the finals. England have had incredibly favourable fixtures only meeting teams in the semis and finals. We met France in the quarters and lost as expected.
These players win games in spite of Gareth with individual brilliance, not because of.
I'd try and get Mourinho for the England job. His club options are dwindling, so he might be open to international management, and he obviously has a great track record in cup competitions.
You can lose, but it's how you lose. He doesn't manage with enough courage.
Biggest criticism is not making key decisions in key games, for me it is uninspiring football & failing to use the attacking talents to play attacking football.
Foden, Grealish, Arnold, Gallagher, Palmer, Saka. Yet somehow, he starts Henderson and Maguire! He plays on Emotion not tactics.
Rice and Henderson with their 10 yard pass.
Play 4 3 3 like Klopp. Unlock the potential.
He's pushing his feminine anxiety onto the national outlook.
Gallagher in these list of places, he isn’t good ffs
An elite manager knows when to go for the kill. Mr Southgate didn’t have it as a player and definitely doesn’t as a Coach. He could have two trophies in the cabinet by now.
I know that they had already qualified, but three shots on target against Malta at home is ridiculous. Southgate is far too conservative.
This is the best chance to win a tournament we have had in 58 years! Let the boys bring football home! You can still dis the manager after we win.
It's never "coming home". What a joke 😂
It has been. Thanks for your time
He has at least 3 world class players. Kane, Walker and Bellingham would probably get in any national team.
You split his tenure into 2, after Iceland and Allardyce, some pride and integrity had to be put back into English football. Once the expectation was built and the quality of players coming through has improved incredibly, now he’s got to win, fist half of tenure he was a success. 2nd half will be. A failure if he doesn’t win. However, there’s no shame in that, the margins at the top are slim and there are other teams who think they can win but there can only be one. Gareth has been fantastic either way and has given us as fans some incredible memories.
They only have keown on here to argue against jordon. Keown has nothing of any substance to say he is arsenal and England biased and wknt have a bad word said against them
Yes
Nice to see everyone defending Gareth, makes sure that England win nothing despite having one of the better squads
did Martin just say England weren't ready against Croatia.... Martin... Southgate played an injured Harry Kane before a fully fit jamie Vardy sitting on a bench... his favouritism and inability to play players as he says "on form" have cost England trophies
England gifted W/C semi. Best team they beat was... Sweden. Then couldn't bear Croatia.. euro, scored a goal against a poor Italy, then parked the bus.. he's a defender, with a defenders mentality. He wouldn't get a managers job at any P.L. club.
Keown on the pitch was an animal. Keown in the studio is a quintessential fanboy
Simon and Jim come to work, Martin comes in after sitting up all night thinking how to challenge Simon on everything he says
He comes in after sitting up all night having a panic attack and crying into his pillow more like.
Just because you cry on your pillow doesn’t mean others do. We don’t win because we don’t back our manager. Everyone has an opinion on who they will play or pick. If you can do the job then apply for it.
Everyone in the comments could do What Southgate has done so congratulations everyone, youre an elite manager
The Fa have to hire Marcelo Bielsa if England want to win any trophy. A tactical genius who does not need world class players to win something.
England doesn’t have a proper structure going forward, no building up from midfield to attack despite the abundance of attacking players
Keown saying Southgate is an elite manager ... oh come on Martin, Let's tell ourselves the truth.
On paper, a semi-final, a final and a quarter final don't look bad, and after the debacle of 2016 Euros and the Allardyce appointment I guess Southgate's reign has brought stability to England and he deserves some credit for that.
However, England have had lots of favourable draws, they haven't really beaten any opponents who would be classed as footballing equals(or superiors), and everytime England have lost he's made similar mistakes.
Overall, I think he's done the bare minimum needed to stay in his job and regardless of whether he wins the Euros next year the FA will probably look for someone else.
Southgate can’t fail with these group of players. He’s been blessed with the talent he has. Yet he has never got the best out of anyone. Idk how such a bang average coach can be so heavily backed by pundits, just because he’s friendly with the media. We could once again miss out on winning titles with a golden generation. Southgate shouldn’t be praised for that. He’s done an average job. He’s done nothing special. Beat everyone we were meant too, and lost to the teams who might’ve been slightly better.
Every time there's a major tournament people ALWAYS say that England have a chance to win the trophy, but yet they never do anything.. England won't do anything in this tournament, i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't make it out the groups lool 😂🤣🙄🤦🏾♂️
Imagine being favourites and never winning anything
Exactly🤣🤣🤣🤣
This next tournament will be the first time England have been favourites for a tournament since 1966.
Simon is absolute spot on. We need a 🏆 ASAP, no more excuses. We have Kane, Bellingham, Foden, Saka all quality players!
currently the best players in Europe. in every position except T-Rex in goal
I think we need a debate of why the international break means the football leagues come to a complete stand-still? Totally unnecessary.
Most of the players aren't first-team players of their own clubs or they play for teams not even in this country. So why does the PL have to stop? One player from Everton, one from Chelsea, one from MU, one from MC shouldn't cause a whole UK league to be suspended. Surely it's no different to being injured or the manager not select them for a couple of weeks- you're out of action for your club. That doesn't stop other teammates stepping up and replacing them.
Southplank has blown 3 huge chances of winning a 🏆. He's failed at all 3.
That doesn't equal success... Fact!
England are destroying any chance of winning something with Southgate in charge 💯
He picks his bum chums over form 💀
Unfortunately for England there is no one better who’s willing to replace him. The England job isn’t the draw some think it is.
When is Gareth going to wake up and realise that his doubters criticise his squad selections, tactics in the big games and going back on his words. He thinks we're only jugging him on performances, results and trophy wins.
What majority group of fans would want Southgate as their manager?
Keown is an absolute plant. The Gary Lineker of Talk Sport
Elite Southgate as the next Palace manager? Keown's great Jordan wind-up.
Martin is either dense or he is deliberately being obtuse. A cardboard cutout could have achieved what he has with these players. He still hasn’t beaten a top 10 team in competition yet. Why? Because he is an EPL level manager it’s that’s simple
Southgates a lucky manager not an elite manager.
Soon as we face a half decent team that is in form with no injuries etc we go out! We only beat the teams we should be beating. It’s the same every tournament, Southgate needs binning off
If not for Southgate we would have won silverware, at least beating Italy at the euros. Southgate will never, ever deliver silverware for England, he is small time. There is no way on earth he would be hired at a top premier league side, that says it all.
The man has done great. We always want to criticize when we haven’t done anything in the past despite having top managers. Gareth hasn’t won but he has done well and continues to build a platform for us to win.
Rather rally and support we want to criticize. Apply for the job of you can do better.
You're delusional if you think Southgate has got the best out of the talent at his disposal.
We got to the final last year in spite of Southgate, not because of. He is formulaic and one dimensional. Sideways and backwards, even against poor teams like Malta. No ideas on how to break a low block.
It wasn’t our day, Martin grow up, everyone except Southgate could see Italy worked us out and started to dominate, Southgate needed to make changes he didn’t and we lost the match. He was outwitted by a far far better coach. Sack him now he is terrible
Since 1966, there were many teams better than England.. Not fair to judge Southgate better than previous managers..
Speaking as an Arsenal fan, (and a huge fan of Keown when he played for us), I find him absolutely clueless when it comes to talking about football. He'd bore the stripes off a bloody zebra !!
Love MK when he is on the show. Great signing by TS to get him
I think the problem is that England consistantly get easy draws. So when they progress and eventually meet a top team they struggle and fall short. If they faced bigger tests in the qualifiers and earlier in tournaments they would have more experience in big situations.
Which Prem club takes Southgate?
Imagine what, pep, klopp or Ange Postecoglou could do with this group of players!
Ange Postecoglou? In the same breath as Pep & Klopp? Wow 😂
11:19 If that is all it takes to be an elite manager then McLaren will be well chuffed with himself.
How southgate doesn't select sterling is criminal
The headless chicken isn't needed.
About the only decision Southgate has gotten right and I want Southgate out.
Average like Trashford
My eyes have been opened to a lot of identity politics since Gareth took charge
No top Premier League team would hire Southgate
Elite manager, there simply isn’t any evidence of that.
Every time he has been asked a question, when it counted in competition he has been found wanting.
He is not an elite manager he is awful…..Martin stop this you don’t believe it
Simon is so right! Southgate has no Plan B!
England’s literally had the most expensive squad for the last 5-6 years and won nothing
National teams dont buy players and in any case a players transfer fee has no bearing on their performance at their own club, let alone their national team.
Has Martin said anything today that didn't involve his feelings ? Dude has been terrible today