try Steve Lehto from Lehto's Law ! he has done heaps of car dealer related litigations ,he is on YT as well. if he can't do anything because he can't practise in GA , we will at least shine a light on this, so you can pass this story onto him.
hahahahahaha. More likely Toyota should be the co-defendant because they put pressure (or worse instructed) dealerships to be as aggressive as possible to deny warranty.
Most computerized cars record information the entire time the vehicle has the ignition on. When any event triggers the system it creates a snapshot of the monitored data and places it into a ROM chip that cannot be erased, like TPS, Braking, steering angle, engine load, air bags, seat occupancy and more. If it has any ADAS equipment it records that as well as images from all available cameras. The warning he saw first is because the cars owner and the dealership can view it without needing permission, anyone else is supposed either have written permission from the owner (check the fine print in your policy, it's hidden in there someplace under data retrieval or similar) or a lawful court order.
@@JIS001 Not true. The Police need a court order to pull it if they intend to use it in a case but the manufacturer has no say in that. (b) Privacy.-Data recorded or transmitted by an event data recorder described in subsection (a) may not be accessed by a person other than an owner or a lessee of the motor vehicle in which the event data recorder is installed unless- (1) a court or other judicial or administrative authority having jurisdiction- (A) authorizes the retrieval of the data; and (B) to the extent that there is retrieved data, the data is subject to the standards for admission into evidence required by that court or other administrative authority; (2) an owner or a lessee of the motor vehicle provides written, electronic, or recorded audio consent to the retrieval of the data for any purpose, including the purpose of diagnosing, servicing, or repairing the motor vehicle, or by agreeing to a subscription that describes how data will be retrieved and used; (3) the data is retrieved pursuant to an investigation or inspection authorized under section 1131(a) or 30166 of title 49, United States Code, and the personally identifiable information of an owner or a lessee of the vehicle and the vehicle identification number is not disclosed in connection with the retrieved data, except that the vehicle identification number may be disclosed to the certifying manufacturer; (4) the data is retrieved for the purpose of determining the need for, or facilitating, emergency medical response in response to a motor vehicle crash; or (5) the data is retrieved for traffic safety research, and the personally identifiable information of an owner or a lessee of the vehicle and the vehicle identification number is not disclosed in connection with the retrieved data. Note Section B1 and B2 B2 is one that is used a lot, it allows a service shop to pull the data if it's needed to diagnose a failure. In just about every sale of a new vehicle some form of release like that is hidden in the paperwork. Something like "You authorize the collection of data that may be needed to diagnose and repair this vehicle"
Someone should call Toyota directly and deal with them. When I worked at GM sometimes calling the manufacturer directly was the only way to get beyond an idiot at the counter. I had a few warranty issues for customers where the management wouldn't do the right thing so I told the customer to call GM directly. In several cases they got the help they needed.
@@autodiagyt right. The dealers just do not want to spend the time to work out these difficult issues especially now that the car is owned by a second hand dealer. Good on you for going through all the work that you did to try and correct the issue.
The first dealer did the diagnostic, I don't why they didn't want to do the repair . Maybe they wanted to charge twice. One to warranty and one to the customer
Toyota will Not Honor the "Sticky Dash" warranty replacement for the Dash Boards on Toyota Camrys, I called the Corporate Office back in 2017 and they Absolutely Refused to Honor my Dash Replacement for my Camry. Toyota is No Longer a Good Company to Deal with for Warrantys or Manufacturing Quality Products.
Toyota will Not Honor the "Sticky Dash" warranty replacement for the Dash Boards on Toyota Camrys, I called the Corporate Office back in 2017 and they Absolutely Refused to Honor my Dash Replacement for my Camry. Toyota is No Longer a Good Company to Deal with for Warrantys or Manufacturing Quality Products.
After everything you explained, I just can't imagine how dealerships get a bad name, Seriously though, I know a lot of RUclipsrs won't put a place on blast, but that's a disservice to everyone out there, if you don't, people will continue to be ripped off, and the dishonest shops won't have any incentives to do better, and you will be contributing to every person that gets taken advantage of, I think it's the only way to improve the auto repair industry and make things better for everyone. Love that you take pride in your work, and enjoy learning from your videos.
I appreciate you showing how much personal data is being logged by vehicles nowadays, crazy how much data your own car collects on you with 99% of owners not even knowing this data is being collected from them or be able to access it and that companies have ownership of it and can do what they like with said data. This isn't just happening with cars, your dishwasher and fridge are now collecting data on you! It sounds like a conspiracy theory but if you look it's happening right now and people seem oblivious to it. I regards to the warranty claim if I was the owner I would contact Toyota direct bypassing the dealer network and explain the situation via a letter or email in great detail providing evidence. This will take a considerable amount of time but I have found many manufacturers in the end will offer what they call a goodwill gesture and repair the car under warranty especially if they think that this will get any sort of publicity. It should in no way have to come to this as it trashes the reputation of the automotive industry not just for the manufacturers and dealers but for independents too.
My guess is the first dealer could not determine the cause of the issues, so in order to save face they declared the car was in a wreck. This way they can simply tell the customer, "oh theres no warranty, it was wrecked." Then they are off the hook. Most dealers are so sales oriented, selling parts and repairs in this case, that they dont want to take the time to find a difficult problem especially since the manufacturer would limit the diagnosis time they can warranty. They felt the car would cost them time and money so they said it was wrecked.
I'm thinking it was someone that didn't want to do the work at Toyoda's warranty rates. It would be interesting to go though this dealer's history and see if there's a pattern.
I bought a 2020 Camry new. I dumped the car before its 20k mile oil change because of several problems Toyota couldn't, or wouldn't, fix. They even snuck in block sealer trying to get rid of the hot antifreeze smell behind my back and lied about when I asked about the reservoir was so full and the spillage drying to a heavy crust at the dealer. If you got one of the tens of thousand of the bad cars, the only fix is a crusher. My 2020 ruined a 30+ year trust of Toyota products. I don't see a future of taking another chance with them. Toyota doesn't care unless you get in to the higher end vehicles like a Tundra. They'll deny every warranty claim they can. Besides the looks of the car, I hated everything about the car before I got rid of it.
All news media and Consumer reports telling us that Toyota is the most reliable vehicles in N America. Really? I have 2007 Lincoln Town Car and I had never fix anything except maintenance like changing tires, engine oil, cooling etc.
Great video and details. I run into issues with dealerships when I had my trucks. Luckily I just bought a brand new Western Star truck and I got a letter from the vice president of something from corporate. After having issues with a dealership I called him and told him I wasn’t happy about their service. Western Star had several guys that were intermediaries between the factory and the dealers. He helped me get my issues resolved and threatened one dealer to take the dealership from them because they refused to do warranty work on trucks that were not bought from them.
I liked the way you explained what causes Chips to get fried and explaing which chips do what? Its way beyond my DYI auto mechanic knowledge. Ive been doing my own maintenance for over 50 years.
That's a really Bazar situation. I'm assuming that the car is now owned by a used car dealer??? Even after repair the dealer is going to be in trouble trying to sell a late model low mileage car with no warranty. As a retired service manager from a bigon Era that tried to satisfy customers, my advice would be to demand a meeting with the Toyota service rep and take an attorney with me. I'd want them to prove to me that the car was in an accident. It appears from the Datta you shared, That is not the case. There has to be a way to clear the cars history! That's so unfortunate. This is the outcome when you loose the Maw and Paw dealers! Everything is about the almighty dollar today!
ABS modules on Volvos are notorious for going bad.. We just had a brake booster electric module go bad one 2019 Acura RDX.. Luckily, my wife was not hurt when this failed pedal went down to the floor!! I thought it was gonna be covered under warranty, but they declined it since it was just out of mileage. Had to pay $2400 to get it fixed and lo and behold the electronic portion Bosch made in Mexico!!
first time i see a read out of the blackbox. We were told when the system was permitted in europe, that this was going to be used by insurance companies to either relook at claims or recalculate your insurance policy if you drive good or either bad. Seeing the data is still vage on some points (like accelerator pedal pressed after brake release, meaning you probably did a 0-100/0-60 mph pull would be a trigger for the insurance company to increase your insurance)
any warranty is only as good as the company behind it. toyota corporate needs to answer for this. thier dealers defrauded a customer. that's not the japanese way. someone should fall on thier own sword!
Thank you for the insight. So if even a '22 Camry has it, we must assume that every modern car is secretly keeping a diary of every occurrence of brisk handling. Apparently with saved pictures if it happened at cruising speed. And the customer is left in the dark. Nice. Very nice.
I got one of those "bumper to bumper" warranties on my wife's car when it was new. During the purchase I read it and noticed it does not cover the bumpers. No, the warranty doc does not say "bumper to bumper" on it. That's just jargon now.
Dealers are awful, had to take our bmw dealer to court over negligence snd every brand inexperience incompetence and predatory behavior. I love fast shiny new cars but its not worth buying them anymore. Manufacturers just say theyre privately owned, work it out with them 😔
What a bunch of crooks! With the insane level of abusive spying that Toyota implemented on the customer's driving, they should know perfectly that it wasn't a collision. This does seem to be the dealer not wanting to risk not receiving back the cost of an expensive warranty repair, from Toyota. Absolutely outrageous and should be posted on all Toyota forums! You are right Jake! It is quite possible that a nearby lightning strike killed the modules, but that's not a reason for the dealer to lie through his teeth and blacklist the vehicle in the process. Very shady and very sad. I'm really upset, but I hope to hear some good new about this car later on.
Not ever, some dealers are great and bend over backwards to help the customer. In the dealerships I worked in this would have easily been pushed through warranty. If there is no proof of external forces that caused the issue then our regional would have gladly made the customer happy.
Dealers get a bad reputation and this is just another reason why. Like Jake said, make them document it in writing and you get the copy. However, proving it was a lightning strike is another story. Unless you can see where it hit, it's just a guess that may show up later when another module goes bad for no reason. Good video Jake! Thanks for the tips.
Jake a terrific rant. I agree with you 100% somebody screwed somebody big time. Oh and thanks for sharing the fact we are basically being tracked constantly . 😡
You as an independent repair shop, should contact the regional toyota warranty repair manager for a personal inspection and his view of the reasons any warranty was voided. A customer that owned it could and should have done it, the dealer dose not have the last word a factory rep does.
Call toyota directly. Also, I work in body side of repair as a mobile tech. If a collision repair is performed in accordance with oe service requirements and procedures, collision repairs are warrantable. I dont know where the perception that a collision automatically voids warranty. There are dozens of position statements to prove collision repair is warrantable.
I went to a Toyota dealer in MA to get the VVTi solenoid on my 2011 Camry replaced. One of the tech told me that they'd have to tear apart the dash to do it and it will cost a fortune. I just turn back and left that dealer.
The bumper dents is a 50% of people do pulling in at kwik marts, etc. Or scrap the bottoms. Call the dealer your self in support, tell them you have the proof.
I had almost the same thing happen with the front sensors on the front of my XT5. They said it was a rock hit it but I couldn't see any damage of the sensor nor around the sensor. Theses set slightly inside the front bumper cover.
The warranty field rep has a dollar amount average for dealership areas which when exceeded will generate red flags, that will generate resistance for warranty claims payout. I personally know this from working at a Ford dealership.
And where are you getting your information. Spent 20 years in the industry and not once did the higher ups ever say to me you can't spend over this amount while in warranty or as a goodwill (out of warranty) claim.
@@thk7513 gm does require pre authorization on expensive repairs if you dealer is on restriction. That can happen for several reasons like your training isn’t up to requirements or a lot of repeat repairs on the same vehicle.
I've been a Toyota tech for 28 years and a few years ago, had a 2019 Camry hybrid that only had about 1000 miles. And the dash was lit up like a X-mas tree just like this one. Long story short, the problems started when there was a lightening strike near the car. I had the car for about two months, ended up replacing the ABS actuator and both rear hub/bearings. It was covered by customer's insurance and I think the bill was over $20K.
I believe this car is also a lightning strike car which I wouldn’t expect them to warranty. The issue I have is the false claim it was cause by collision damage. I can’t stand when people lie. The bad part is if the tech had of said he thought it was lightning then the service advisor could have informed the customer to reach out to their insurance company and the car would have probably gotten fixed.
The car was not in a wreck the airbags and everything that goes with it would have been replaced, service advisors and technicians need to hit target hours and I do some work for dealers and have witnessed on how they rip of customers for stuff thats done under warranty and have the customer pay . If it was my car they getting sued , you should show them the data from the vehicle memory and ask them to point out the collision and take it up to corporate 🤬🤬
Are you sure all those modules are bad? Once the can signal is fucked up (highly technical term) all the modules will report errors. Time for the unplug it test while monitoring can signal on oscilloscope and see if the signal returns.
That culprit dealer / tech. tarnished the reputation of that particular vehicle throughout Toyota dealerships abroad, or maybe it is an indoctrinated policy by the manufacturer. The definition of a wreck is a heavy impact that will cause a push / compress of the chassis where a damage for components and wiring squeezed within will occur. I believe with the scientific evidence you have including black box, you may would to communicate the issue to Toyota Mother Co. (preferably in writing with evidence attached), or whomever hold or supervise Toyota operations in U.S.. or maybe that could be done through a lawyer via litigation but I believe it would be costly. Hope this car gets its rehabilitation back from Toyota. Take care.
Dude. Warranty has nothing to do with "dealer". Dealer is just a middleman. Warranty is provided by Manufacturer. You must sue manufacturer if manufacturer is denying warranty. You have to get confirmation from manufacturer whether they deny warranty or not. Then, bill manufacturer for repairs. "Dealer" has nothing to do with anything. "Toyota looks at dealer's record" does not matter because dealer can be wrong. You can sue anybody if you have proof that that "anybody" is wrong and refusing warranty for wrong reasons. The Courts exist just for this reason and for no other reason. FYI: the courts will require dealer or Toyota to provide Proof of Wreck: where, what, why, how,and other details of wreck. Photos, records, etc. Those documents, or lack of thereof, are the only material the courts use to make decision.
Our local Toyota dealer took half an hour to show a mouldy car. Whilst waiting the service desk got annoyed with a nice older lady who maybe mixed up her appointment.
Time for an attorney who focuses on vehicle warranty issues. This why dealers shouldn’t be entering Carfax data on owners cars without affirmative consent. The consumer needs to challenge the Carfax.
Part of the problem is warranty claims to the mfg pay squat to the dealership. Like the dealership loses money because they never pay for enough time for the mechanics to work on it. Instead of dealing with warranties the shop manager is under pressure getting large paying out of pocket customers over warranty work. Magnuson -Moss act applies here. They have to prove the bumper damage affected the wheels. A call to toyota rep or small claims court will get this fixed fast. If you cant make headway with toyota rep, tell them small claims. They would rather settle because the dealership tech, shop manager and toyota rep have to show up on court and they arent allowed to use a lawyer. Tell the toyota rep that and they will buckle. You can also file for loss of use and contract breech which is punative. Basically you can max out the settle amount easy in court, which is over $10k in most states. Warning: to get out of this, most car companies will try to use a mediator in a specific state which lowers the risk to them. They will write this is the warranty. Esp true of campers. Congress is trying to pass laws to prevent this.
Usually the dealer wants to perform work even if it's warranty work because it's still money for company itself, even if the tech loses time. However, sometimes a dealer can get a little zealous about denying warranty coverage if they've had the manufacture recently deny claims over little items like that. I've experienced this, where we get claims rejected by the manufacture after the repair was done for something tiny or illogical. So the manger or foreman gathers the crew and tells everyone if ANY damage or modification is seen it's no longer warranty out of an abundance of caution. That being said the dealer could have contacted the manufacture, sent photos, information and etc to see if it's covered or not. The best option would be to contact the customer satisfaction hotline, in this case Toyota's, talk with someone whose job is to see the customer happy and explain the situation. If you can get a rep from Toyota to say yes that should be covered you then bring that response to the dealer and say hey you need to cover this Toyota says so.
The tech probably would only get paid 0.3 for diag plus 1/2 the actual time of installation if it were warranty. Then if toyota declines tech would get backflagged. And.....customer would have a fixed vehicle. This whole problem may be an argument against flat rate.
It’s also illegal to back flag a tech. All it takes is a call to the labor board and say you performed a job, got paid and then they are taking the payment back.
I forgot to mention that it is easy to find out who and what "collision" information has on this vehicle. The process is called "Discovery". It is conducted before trial. Opposing parties write a bunch of questions to each other, and parties must answer those questions. If a defendant does not answer a question, then it means that there is no any information to answer this question and it cannot be used in court. So, defendant automatically will loose during trial if defendant did not provide any information to your Discovery (pre-trial) question: Provide all documents pertaining to the "accident" on which you based your warranty denial. Simple question. Solves all problems.
We the people have to start talking to our neighbours, we need to stand as one like we did in the 70’s. These dealers, Toyota, whomever needs a huge lawsuit and make sure customers see this garbage. We have all cards in our hands people. Let’s fight back. And one last thing, don’t let these politicians on the left divide and conquer us.
I had taken my 09 328I to New Motors in Erie PA. I am fully capable of fixing my own car but I knew it was a "sulev warranty issue" It stinks like rotten eggs if ya get on it going up a hill. So I take it in they give me a 7500 estimate. I said what about the warranty. The service advisor laughed at me. He said that hasnt been in warranty for 10 years. He finally admits there is warranty coverage, shows be a paper printed out by my vin with all of the part numbers that are covered. Told me my car actually takes a different part number for catalytic converter so they wont cover it. They end up changing 1 cat out of 4. The bank 2 catalytic had rusted out studs on the flange wehre it hooks to rest of exhaust. They drilled it out and replaced the studs with bolts. It would totally be the right fix if the part was not covered under warranty. They tell me that its corrosion so its not covered. Said if car was from arizona it would not have this issue. Im like so your telling me BMW is not designed to be driven in snow? Every BMW commercial I ever seen is set at a ski lodge with snow and skis strapped to roof. They tell me the rotten egg smell is normal. Even talked to the tech he claims he has a newer mustang that does the same thing. If you google 09 328i rotten egg smell it comes back with a reference to a mustang doing same thing.
The emissions warranty is largely controlled by federal law or CA law depending on the location when you are trying to get the work done. Dealers know that most people dont know the details and expect that the dealer will be honest to some degree so they wont go past being told "no it's not under warranty." They will just pay or take it to a private shop. The dealers count on ignorance to get away with robbery.
@@curtisroberts9137 I paid 5k for the car. The dealership did about 6500 in work They even refunded my my original 160 for "diagnosis" and honestly they shoul dhave replaced at least 1 more cat and likely all 4.
Great video, explanation of networks and all. I feel sad for all of the owners of this car. I wonder if it had been turned into an insurance company and the owner decided to take the money and chose not to fix the car but traded or sold it as is. I would like to believe that an insurance claim would have shown up on CarFax but this one is a very odd duck. Either way, makes you wonder what the flip is up with Toyota.
14:00 nope nope nope, that's not how any data network works. Obviously there will be conflicts on any bus that has multiple devices on it, so the system is designed so that no "bus collision" (i.e., 2 devices talking at the same time) will cause physical damage. Google "open-drain outputs" and "pull-up resistors". (Oversimplified version: the data-output transistors can only clamp the data line to ground, not to + power.) Tl;dr: Shorts to ground would not harm a data network. HOWEVER, if a short circuit was able to bridge +12V power to the data line, then yeah there'd be some carnage. Any device that was "talking" when the short happened would get it's data output transistors nuked
I'm not sure what you are talking about in your first paragraph. I didn't say anything about modules talking at the same time. And I don't think you statement of data lines only clamp to ground is accurate either because CAN Bus is never at ground. It has a 2.5v bias voltage and CAN H pulls the bias up to about 3.5v and CAN L pulls it down to 1.5v, not only that but the lines have to be able to flow some current as well. So just using basic ohms law, the differential voltage between CAN H and CAN L is mostly at 2v, the bus generally has termination resistance of 60ohms, so that equals a current of 33milliamps. This isn't a K-Line where there is a bias voltage and the module communication chip is pulling it to ground to create the data packets.
Absolutely absurd. There has to be a lawsuit there, unfortunately that's not cheap... But I'm sure the owner could find a lawyer that would work with them. The worst part for Toyota, is that myself and a whole bunch of other people will never buy a Toyota or another Toyota after all their nonsense warranty denials. Also doesn't help that GR Corollas are bursting into flames
Warranty is a performance contract between the owner and the manufacturer the dealer is not a party to that contract they are the authorized agent to perform the work. You need to call the dealer and have the Toyota field rep look at it as they would be the final authority on Toyota’ s behalf.
idk how toyota works with regards to the interaction of the abs and power stering but recently saw a citroen c2 with a abs fault, abs module died and the car lost power stering i guess it is because the stering on the highway/city driving is diferent, didnt record the kilometers\speed does toyota also do the same? ps: the abs was replaced and the car works fine
At 26:22 on the Toyota GTS+ Software you were running its reading the mileage in the upper right is says 14,045 ... might it still be incrementing using something? I think you said the current mileage is stuck at 13,995??
how did the car work out the speed for the event going off the road if the abs was down in that case will the true mileage be stored in ecu bcm tcm i have a vw and mileaga is stored in about 5 modules
@@autodiagyt ok it had me thinking . the original toyota dealer should be named and shamed al least any potential future customers would know how they may be treated i think it was disgusting how the customer was treated also by refusing and claiming that the damage shown is criminal
The fact that it shows 13,995 miles on the dash and 14045 miles on the software proves that the car somehow knows how far it's driven. Maybe the true mileage is stored in the TCM or ECM and does record the mileage from a transmission sensor but the cluster reads it from the actual wheel speed sensor and does it's own calculation as to how many miles it was driven. It is crazy to see this kind of weird design.
@@autodiagyt I see that you posted that, thanks for clarifying. This is good ammo to fight for the rights of car owners and help them keep it on the road longer.
I bought a new BMW in 2016. I took it in for a minor issue and they said it had been in a major wreck. Long story short, they confused the line where the clear bra ends with a paint line that might be created with a respray. Total buffoons. How do you work in the automotive industry and not know what a clear bra is? Never took my car back to that dealership.
The best tool here is ...a good lawyer
try Steve Lehto from Lehto's Law ! he has done heaps of car dealer related litigations ,he is on YT as well. if he can't do anything because he can't practise in GA , we will at least shine a light on this, so you can pass this story onto him.
This must go to court. It’s an important case.
Toyota needs to sue the dealers that denied their products.
hahahahahaha. More likely Toyota should be the co-defendant because they put pressure (or worse instructed) dealerships to be as aggressive as possible to deny warranty.
I had no idea the car stored that type of information including photos.
Make sure your partner doesn't find out😂😂
Most computerized cars record information the entire time the vehicle has the ignition on. When any event triggers the system it creates a snapshot of the monitored data and places it into a ROM chip that cannot be erased, like TPS, Braking, steering angle, engine load, air bags, seat occupancy and more. If it has any ADAS equipment it records that as well as images from all available cameras. The warning he saw first is because the cars owner and the dealership can view it without needing permission, anyone else is supposed either have written permission from the owner (check the fine print in your policy, it's hidden in there someplace under data retrieval or similar) or a lawful court order.
@@Blazer02LS Thanks for the explanation! 👍
It is always recording but the manufacturer requires you to sign a consent for to access that information.
@@JIS001 Not true. The Police need a court order to pull it if they intend to use it in a case but the manufacturer has no say in that.
(b) Privacy.-Data recorded or transmitted by an event data recorder described in subsection (a) may not be accessed by a person other than an owner or a lessee of the motor vehicle in which the event data recorder is installed unless-
(1) a court or other judicial or administrative authority having jurisdiction-
(A) authorizes the retrieval of the data; and
(B) to the extent that there is retrieved data, the data is subject to the standards for admission into evidence required by that court or other administrative authority;
(2) an owner or a lessee of the motor vehicle provides written, electronic, or recorded audio consent to the retrieval of the data for any purpose, including the purpose of diagnosing, servicing, or repairing the motor vehicle, or by agreeing to a subscription that describes how data will be retrieved and used;
(3) the data is retrieved pursuant to an investigation or inspection authorized under section 1131(a) or 30166 of title 49, United States Code, and the personally identifiable information of an owner or a lessee of the vehicle and the vehicle identification number is not disclosed in connection with the retrieved data, except that the vehicle identification number may be disclosed to the certifying manufacturer;
(4) the data is retrieved for the purpose of determining the need for, or facilitating, emergency medical response in response to a motor vehicle crash; or
(5) the data is retrieved for traffic safety research, and the personally identifiable information of an owner or a lessee of the vehicle and the vehicle identification number is not disclosed in connection with the retrieved data.
Note Section B1 and B2 B2 is one that is used a lot, it allows a service shop to pull the data if it's needed to diagnose a failure. In just about every sale of a new vehicle some form of release like that is hidden in the paperwork. Something like "You authorize the collection of data that may be needed to diagnose and repair this vehicle"
Someone should call Toyota directly and deal with them. When I worked at GM sometimes calling the manufacturer directly was the only way to get beyond an idiot at the counter. I had a few warranty issues for customers where the management wouldn't do the right thing so I told the customer to call GM directly. In several cases they got the help they needed.
I agree the problem is ever dealer after followed suit. Getting someone to see past what there trained “experts” wrote in the story’s is difficult.
@@autodiagyt right. The dealers just do not want to spend the time to work out these difficult issues especially now that the car is owned by a second hand dealer. Good on you for going through all the work that you did to try and correct the issue.
The first dealer did the diagnostic, I don't why they didn't want to do the repair .
Maybe they wanted to charge twice.
One to warranty and one to the customer
Toyota will Not Honor the "Sticky Dash" warranty replacement for the Dash Boards on Toyota Camrys, I called the Corporate Office back in 2017 and they Absolutely Refused to Honor my Dash Replacement for my Camry. Toyota is No Longer a Good Company to Deal with for Warrantys or Manufacturing Quality Products.
Toyota will Not Honor the "Sticky Dash" warranty replacement for the Dash Boards on Toyota Camrys, I called the Corporate Office back in 2017 and they Absolutely Refused to Honor my Dash Replacement for my Camry. Toyota is No Longer a Good Company to Deal with for Warrantys or Manufacturing Quality Products.
I've told several techs about your channel. Good content.
Thanks for that!
U really went out of your way to help this customer & are SO knowledgeable. I sub'd & gave u a 👍!
I'm not sure what part you are talking about driving lol
After everything you explained, I just can't imagine how dealerships get a bad name, Seriously though, I know a lot of RUclipsrs won't put a place on blast, but that's a disservice to everyone out there, if you don't, people will continue to be ripped off, and the dishonest shops won't have any incentives to do better, and you will be contributing to every person that gets taken advantage of, I think it's the only way to improve the auto repair industry and make things better for everyone. Love that you take pride in your work, and enjoy learning from your videos.
You are a good man and everything you said is 100% true. People dont realize the cascading effect small things like this can have.
I appreciate you showing how much personal data is being logged by vehicles nowadays, crazy how much data your own car collects on you with 99% of owners not even knowing this data is being collected from them or be able to access it and that companies have ownership of it and can do what they like with said data.
This isn't just happening with cars, your dishwasher and fridge are now collecting data on you! It sounds like a conspiracy theory but if you look it's happening right now and people seem oblivious to it.
I regards to the warranty claim if I was the owner I would contact Toyota direct bypassing the dealer network and explain the situation via a letter or email in great detail providing evidence.
This will take a considerable amount of time but I have found many manufacturers in the end will offer what they call a goodwill gesture and repair the car under warranty especially if they think that this will get any sort of publicity.
It should in no way have to come to this as it trashes the reputation of the automotive industry not just for the manufacturers and dealers but for independents too.
Like saying you had a flat tire and that voids the vehicle warranty.
Best video i've seen yet-Tech with morals!
My guess is the first dealer could not determine the cause of the issues, so in order to save face they declared the car was in a wreck. This way they can simply tell the customer, "oh theres no warranty, it was wrecked." Then they are off the hook. Most dealers are so sales oriented, selling parts and repairs in this case, that they dont want to take the time to find a difficult problem especially since the manufacturer would limit the diagnosis time they can warranty. They felt the car would cost them time and money so they said it was wrecked.
I'm thinking it was someone that didn't want to do the work at Toyoda's warranty rates. It would be interesting to go though this dealer's history and see if there's a pattern.
I bought a 2020 Camry new. I dumped the car before its 20k mile oil change because of several problems Toyota couldn't, or wouldn't, fix. They even snuck in block sealer trying to get rid of the hot antifreeze smell behind my back and lied about when I asked about the reservoir was so full and the spillage drying to a heavy crust at the dealer. If you got one of the tens of thousand of the bad cars, the only fix is a crusher. My 2020 ruined a 30+ year trust of Toyota products. I don't see a future of taking another chance with them. Toyota doesn't care unless you get in to the higher end vehicles like a Tundra. They'll deny every warranty claim they can. Besides the looks of the car, I hated everything about the car before I got rid of it.
All news media and Consumer reports telling us that Toyota is the most reliable vehicles in N America. Really? I have 2007 Lincoln Town Car and I had never fix anything except maintenance like changing tires, engine oil, cooling etc.
integrity is a high achieving personal trait that either you have or don't. Thanks for posting.
Great video and details. I run into issues with dealerships when I had my trucks. Luckily I just bought a brand new Western Star truck and I got a letter from the vice president of something from corporate. After having issues with a dealership I called him and told him I wasn’t happy about their service. Western Star had several guys that were intermediaries between the factory and the dealers. He helped me get my issues resolved and threatened one dealer to take the dealership from them because they refused to do warranty work on trucks that were not bought from them.
I liked the way you explained what causes Chips to get fried and explaing which chips do what?
Its way beyond my DYI auto mechanic knowledge.
Ive been doing my own maintenance for over 50 years.
👍
Great video, joe average consumers need to know this, but it’s hidden to most of us!
That's a really Bazar situation.
I'm assuming that the car is now owned by a used car dealer??? Even after repair the dealer is going to be in trouble trying to sell a late model low mileage car with no warranty.
As a retired service manager from a bigon Era that tried to satisfy customers, my advice would be to demand a meeting with the Toyota service rep and take an attorney with me. I'd want them to prove to me that the car was in an accident. It appears from the Datta you shared, That is not the case. There has to be a way to clear the cars history!
That's so unfortunate. This is the outcome when you loose the Maw and Paw dealers! Everything is about the almighty dollar today!
ABS modules on Volvos are notorious for going bad.. We just had a brake booster electric module go bad one 2019 Acura RDX.. Luckily, my wife was not hurt when this failed pedal went down to the floor!! I thought it was gonna be covered under warranty, but they declined it since it was just out of mileage. Had to pay $2400 to get it fixed and lo and behold the electronic portion Bosch made in Mexico!!
first time i see a read out of the blackbox. We were told when the system was permitted in europe, that this was going to be used by insurance companies to either relook at claims or recalculate your insurance policy if you drive good or either bad.
Seeing the data is still vage on some points (like accelerator pedal pressed after brake release, meaning you probably did a 0-100/0-60 mph pull would be a trigger for the insurance company to increase your insurance)
wow I never knew about that black box data that is some very powerful information
I would go thru Toyota USA and let them sort it out and show them all your evidence
Sometimes you're the bug and sometimes you're the windshield. Just how much will this cost? There's always the option to sue . . .
any warranty is only as good as the company behind it. toyota corporate needs to answer for this. thier dealers defrauded a customer. that's not the japanese way. someone should fall on thier own sword!
Thank you for the insight. So if even a '22 Camry has it, we must assume that every modern car is secretly keeping a diary of every occurrence of brisk handling. Apparently with saved pictures if it happened at cruising speed. And the customer is left in the dark.
Nice.
Very nice.
As far as I know Toyota is the only one doing it but there could be others.
Toyota unintended acceleration crisis is why we have lil black box, in 2012 new veh
I got one of those "bumper to bumper" warranties on my wife's car when it was new. During the purchase I read it and noticed it does not cover the bumpers. No, the warranty doc does not say "bumper to bumper" on it. That's just jargon now.
Dealers are awful, had to take our bmw dealer to court over negligence snd every brand inexperience incompetence and predatory behavior. I love fast shiny new cars but its not worth buying them anymore. Manufacturers just say theyre privately owned, work it out with them 😔
Now remember that the milage will be incorrect so this will be a problem if this car goes for trade!
Yeah, its a TMU car. You can have it cheap.
Stuff like this makes me want to keep driving my old cars forever. Not only being monitored but the fact that Toyotas warranty is worthless.
What a bunch of crooks! With the insane level of abusive spying that Toyota implemented on the customer's driving, they should know perfectly that it wasn't a collision. This does seem to be the dealer not wanting to risk not receiving back the cost of an expensive warranty repair, from Toyota. Absolutely outrageous and should be posted on all Toyota forums!
You are right Jake! It is quite possible that a nearby lightning strike killed the modules, but that's not a reason for the dealer to lie through his teeth and blacklist the vehicle in the process. Very shady and very sad. I'm really upset, but I hope to hear some good new about this car later on.
Great explanation Jack 😊very thoughtful and well detailed
Time for those dealerships to learn a little about our two friends Magnuson & Moss
Wow, Toyota has all that data in the car. We are in era of Big Corporation. I would go after them under magnuson moss warranty act
Been waiting for part 2 Christine goes to the dealership 😁. Stealership
It's know wonder people don't trust dealerships.
The name of the dealer is easy to find out. Its "Every Dealer".
Stay gold.
Not ever, some dealers are great and bend over backwards to help the customer. In the dealerships I worked in this would have easily been pushed through warranty. If there is no proof of external forces that caused the issue then our regional would have gladly made the customer happy.
I imagine the power steering module was bad and the tech fried the abs module during testing or vice versa.
Dealers get a bad reputation and this is just another reason why. Like Jake said, make them document it in writing and you get the copy. However, proving it was a lightning strike is another story. Unless you can see where it hit, it's just a guess that may show up later when another module goes bad for no reason.
Good video Jake! Thanks for the tips.
Jake a terrific rant. I agree with you 100% somebody screwed somebody big time. Oh and thanks for sharing the fact we are basically being tracked constantly . 😡
You as an independent repair shop, should contact the regional toyota warranty repair manager for a personal inspection and his view of the reasons any warranty was voided.
A customer that owned it could and should have done it, the dealer dose not have the last word a factory rep does.
I think maybe Toyota corporate might not like to hear this.
Lol, Lightening strike I guessed on part 1, If you look at the crash data at 0.00 I'm sure there was a flash... Haha not really. Great rant Jake. 👍😄
Call toyota directly.
Also, I work in body side of repair as a mobile tech. If a collision repair is performed in accordance with oe service requirements and procedures, collision repairs are warrantable.
I dont know where the perception that a collision automatically voids warranty. There are dozens of position statements to prove collision repair is warrantable.
I went to a Toyota dealer in MA to get the VVTi solenoid on my 2011 Camry replaced. One of the tech told me that they'd have to tear apart the dash to do it and it will cost a fortune. I just turn back and left that dealer.
Had to come catch up on your videos! Been rough day in the shop, tired of getting brand new bad parts! Good to relax! Roll Tide from Tuscaloosa!
Right on!
I have never seen a body shop in my 25 years working in the business that has reassembled a post collision car that you can't tell it was an accident.
Me either
The bumper dents is a 50% of people do pulling in at kwik marts, etc. Or scrap the bottoms. Call the dealer your self in support, tell them you have the proof.
I had almost the same thing happen with the front sensors on the front of my XT5. They said it was a rock hit it but I couldn't see any damage of the sensor nor around the sensor. Theses set slightly inside the front bumper cover.
The warranty field rep has a dollar amount average for dealership areas which when exceeded will generate red flags, that will generate resistance for warranty claims payout.
I personally know this from working at a Ford dealership.
Doesn't mean it can't be worked through. And I'm in no way saying this should be warranty, I'm just saying don't lie to get out of it.
And where are you getting your information. Spent 20 years in the industry and not once did the higher ups ever say to me you can't spend over this amount while in warranty or as a goodwill (out of warranty) claim.
@@thk7513 gm does require pre authorization on expensive repairs if you dealer is on restriction. That can happen for several reasons like your training isn’t up to requirements or a lot of repeat repairs on the same vehicle.
@@thk7513
Only 20 years?
wow now that is a shocker for sure . what a pity this type of skull duggry goes on and not cheap parts to replace for sure
I've been a Toyota tech for 28 years and a few years ago, had a 2019 Camry hybrid that only had about 1000 miles. And the dash was lit up like a X-mas tree just like this one. Long story short, the problems started when there was a lightening strike near the car. I had the car for about two months, ended up replacing the ABS actuator and both rear hub/bearings. It was covered by customer's insurance and I think the bill was over $20K.
I believe this car is also a lightning strike car which I wouldn’t expect them to warranty. The issue I have is the false claim it was cause by collision damage. I can’t stand when people lie. The bad part is if the tech had of said he thought it was lightning then the service advisor could have informed the customer to reach out to their insurance company and the car would have probably gotten fixed.
Went to Lipton Toyota with a friend, salesmen were sleaziest bunch I’ve ever encountered.
BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU
The car was not in a wreck the airbags and everything that goes with it would have been replaced, service advisors and technicians need to hit target hours and I do some work for dealers and have witnessed on how they rip of customers for stuff thats done under warranty and have the customer pay . If it was my car they getting sued , you should show them the data from the vehicle memory and ask them to point out the collision and take it up to corporate 🤬🤬
The only way disgraceful examples like this keep happening is because they aren't exposed to national attention.
the lightning strike would explain the 2 dead modules as for the crash damage u mentioned this time wtf toyota
It's almost as if lying has been normalized. Surprising information, who knew?
Look at American Politics!
Sounds like time to get a lawyer involved
Are you sure all those modules are bad? Once the can signal is fucked up (highly technical term) all the modules will report errors. Time for the unplug it test while monitoring can signal on oscilloscope and see if the signal returns.
That culprit dealer / tech. tarnished the reputation of that particular vehicle throughout Toyota dealerships abroad, or maybe it is an indoctrinated policy by the manufacturer. The definition of a wreck is a heavy impact that will cause a push / compress of the chassis where a damage for components and wiring squeezed within will occur. I believe with the scientific evidence you have including black box, you may would to communicate the issue to Toyota Mother Co. (preferably in writing with evidence attached), or whomever hold or supervise Toyota operations in U.S.. or maybe that could be done through a lawyer via litigation but I believe it would be costly. Hope this car gets its rehabilitation back from Toyota. Take care.
Dude. Warranty has nothing to do with "dealer". Dealer is just a middleman. Warranty is provided by Manufacturer. You must sue manufacturer if manufacturer is denying warranty. You have to get confirmation from manufacturer whether they deny warranty or not. Then, bill manufacturer for repairs. "Dealer" has nothing to do with anything. "Toyota looks at dealer's record" does not matter because dealer can be wrong. You can sue anybody if you have proof that that "anybody" is wrong and refusing warranty for wrong reasons. The Courts exist just for this reason and for no other reason. FYI: the courts will require dealer or Toyota to provide Proof of Wreck: where, what, why, how,and other details of wreck. Photos, records, etc. Those documents, or lack of thereof, are the only material the courts use to make decision.
Yes I'm aware the dealer is just the middle man but the owner would have to file against Toyota because I'm also just a middle man.
Well done 👍
I thought this crap only happened to GM'S, Volkswagen's, Kia's and Toyota ALWAYS does right by its customers? Internet done me dirty again.
Our local Toyota dealer took half an hour to show a mouldy car. Whilst waiting the service desk got annoyed with a nice older lady who maybe mixed up her appointment.
Lipton Toyota Oakland Park Blvd just west of I95 in Ft. Lauderdale. Small dealer for the area on the receipt.
Dealerships. Too shady too dishonest our families don’t use them anymore
I wonder what kind of rating the Newnan dealership has? Do ratings even matter for dealerships these days?
I'm not sure
Time for an attorney who focuses on vehicle warranty issues. This why dealers shouldn’t be entering Carfax data on owners cars without affirmative consent.
The consumer needs to challenge the Carfax.
It's not on the Carfax. It's in the Toyota system that all the dealers are linked to
Part of the problem is warranty claims to the mfg pay squat to the dealership. Like the dealership loses money because they never pay for enough time for the mechanics to work on it.
Instead of dealing with warranties the shop manager is under pressure getting large paying out of pocket customers over warranty work.
Magnuson -Moss act applies here. They have to prove the bumper damage affected the wheels.
A call to toyota rep or small claims court will get this fixed fast. If you cant make headway with toyota rep, tell them small claims. They would rather settle because the dealership tech, shop manager and toyota rep have to show up on court and they arent allowed to use a lawyer. Tell the toyota rep that and they will buckle. You can also file for loss of use and contract breech which is punative. Basically you can max out the settle amount easy in court, which is over $10k in most states.
Warning: to get out of this, most car companies will try to use a mediator in a specific state which lowers the risk to them. They will write this is the warranty. Esp true of campers.
Congress is trying to pass laws to prevent this.
Usually the dealer wants to perform work even if it's warranty work because it's still money for company itself, even if the tech loses time. However, sometimes a dealer can get a little zealous about denying warranty coverage if they've had the manufacture recently deny claims over little items like that.
I've experienced this, where we get claims rejected by the manufacture after the repair was done for something tiny or illogical. So the manger or foreman gathers the crew and tells everyone if ANY damage or modification is seen it's no longer warranty out of an abundance of caution. That being said the dealer could have contacted the manufacture, sent photos, information and etc to see if it's covered or not.
The best option would be to contact the customer satisfaction hotline, in this case Toyota's, talk with someone whose job is to see the customer happy and explain the situation.
If you can get a rep from Toyota to say yes that should be covered you then bring that response to the dealer and say hey you need to cover this Toyota says so.
The tech probably would only get paid 0.3 for diag plus 1/2 the actual time of installation if it were warranty. Then if toyota declines tech would get backflagged. And.....customer would have a fixed vehicle. This whole problem may be an argument against flat rate.
It’s also illegal to back flag a tech. All it takes is a call to the labor board and say you performed a job, got paid and then they are taking the payment back.
I forgot to mention that it is easy to find out who and what "collision" information has on this vehicle. The process is called "Discovery". It is conducted before trial. Opposing parties write a bunch of questions to each other, and parties must answer those questions. If a defendant does not answer a question, then it means that there is no any information to answer this question and it cannot be used in court. So, defendant automatically will loose during trial if defendant did not provide any information to your Discovery (pre-trial) question: Provide all documents pertaining to the "accident" on which you based your warranty denial. Simple question. Solves all problems.
Ok maybe i missed something how do you get access to that info.DLC?? Great video by the way learn something everytime i watch your channel
Yes the dlc using the oem diagnostic software
We the people have to start talking to our neighbours, we need to stand as one like we did in the 70’s. These dealers, Toyota, whomever needs a huge lawsuit and make sure customers see this garbage. We have all cards in our hands people. Let’s fight back. And one last thing, don’t let these politicians on the left divide and conquer us.
I had taken my 09 328I to New Motors in Erie PA. I am fully capable of fixing my own car but I knew it was a "sulev warranty issue" It stinks like rotten eggs if ya get on it going up a hill. So I take it in they give me a 7500 estimate. I said what about the warranty. The service advisor laughed at me. He said that hasnt been in warranty for 10 years. He finally admits there is warranty coverage, shows be a paper printed out by my vin with all of the part numbers that are covered. Told me my car actually takes a different part number for catalytic converter so they wont cover it. They end up changing 1 cat out of 4. The bank 2 catalytic had rusted out studs on the flange wehre it hooks to rest of exhaust. They drilled it out and replaced the studs with bolts. It would totally be the right fix if the part was not covered under warranty. They tell me that its corrosion so its not covered. Said if car was from arizona it would not have this issue. Im like so your telling me BMW is not designed to be driven in snow? Every BMW commercial I ever seen is set at a ski lodge with snow and skis strapped to roof. They tell me the rotten egg smell is normal. Even talked to the tech he claims he has a newer mustang that does the same thing. If you google 09 328i rotten egg smell it comes back with a reference to a mustang doing same thing.
The emissions warranty is largely controlled by federal law or CA law depending on the location when you are trying to get the work done. Dealers know that most people dont know the details and expect that the dealer will be honest to some degree so they wont go past being told "no it's not under warranty." They will just pay or take it to a private shop. The dealers count on ignorance to get away with robbery.
@@curtisroberts9137 I paid 5k for the car. The dealership did about 6500 in work They even refunded my my original 160 for "diagnosis" and honestly they shoul dhave replaced at least 1 more cat and likely all 4.
Take the dealer to small claims court and call the local news and it will get fixed under warranty real F-ing fast
Great video, explanation of networks and all. I feel sad for all of the owners of this car. I wonder if it had been turned into an insurance company and the owner decided to take the money and chose not to fix the car but traded or sold it as is. I would like to believe that an insurance claim would have shown up on CarFax but this one is a very odd duck. Either way, makes you wonder what the flip is up with Toyota.
No insurance claims on Carfax.
Abs to determine mileage? Thats stupid as hell, what happened to using a vss off the transmission
Some cars don't use a vss on the transmission. Ford uses front wheel speed sensors on some vehicles as well.
14:00 nope nope nope, that's not how any data network works. Obviously there will be conflicts on any bus that has multiple devices on it, so the system is designed so that no "bus collision" (i.e., 2 devices talking at the same time) will cause physical damage. Google "open-drain outputs" and "pull-up resistors". (Oversimplified version: the data-output transistors can only clamp the data line to ground, not to + power.)
Tl;dr: Shorts to ground would not harm a data network.
HOWEVER, if a short circuit was able to bridge +12V power to the data line, then yeah there'd be some carnage. Any device that was "talking" when the short happened would get it's data output transistors nuked
I'm not sure what you are talking about in your first paragraph. I didn't say anything about modules talking at the same time. And I don't think you statement of data lines only clamp to ground is accurate either because CAN Bus is never at ground. It has a 2.5v bias voltage and CAN H pulls the bias up to about 3.5v and CAN L pulls it down to 1.5v, not only that but the lines have to be able to flow some current as well. So just using basic ohms law, the differential voltage between CAN H and CAN L is mostly at 2v, the bus generally has termination resistance of 60ohms, so that equals a current of 33milliamps. This isn't a K-Line where there is a bias voltage and the module communication chip is pulling it to ground to create the data packets.
Absolutely absurd. There has to be a lawsuit there, unfortunately that's not cheap... But I'm sure the owner could find a lawyer that would work with them. The worst part for Toyota, is that myself and a whole bunch of other people will never buy a Toyota or another Toyota after all their nonsense warranty denials. Also doesn't help that GR Corollas are bursting into flames
Yes they are and Toyota is denied the warranty on them.
That’s why they call them “stealerships”!
I am sure it should also stored video of the damage at the front(bumper damage). Why there is no video?
Because what ever did it there wasn’t a strong enough driver input to the brakes or steering to trigger it.
Take this to the Supreme Court and slide in a free trip to the Bahamas, I guarantee this person will get a brand new car.
It’s why we have lawyers.
You pointed to an Opti-coupler.
At one time I thought about working at a car dealer, but then I remembered that I have ethics. 😇
How about calling lawyer?
Instance records would tell if car had been wrecked?
Warranty is a performance contract between the owner and the manufacturer the dealer is not a party to that contract they are the authorized agent to perform the work. You need to call the dealer and have the Toyota field rep look at it as they would be the final authority on Toyota’ s behalf.
I agree, sadly my local dealer didn't want to get involved with it.
idk how toyota works with regards to the interaction of the abs and power stering but recently saw a citroen c2 with a abs fault, abs module died and the car lost power stering i guess it is because the stering on the highway/city driving is diferent, didnt record the kilometers\speed does toyota also do the same?
ps: the abs was replaced and the car works fine
At 26:22 on the Toyota GTS+ Software you were running its reading the mileage in the upper right is says 14,045 ... might it still be incrementing using something? I think you said the current mileage is stuck at 13,995??
No this section of the video is post repair.
They are called Stealerships for a reason
how did the car work out the speed for the event going off the road if the abs was down in that case will the true mileage be stored in ecu bcm tcm i have a vw and mileaga is stored in about 5 modules
I didn't really make it clear be that was after the abs module was replaced by me. Some of this video was pre repair and some was post repair.
@@autodiagyt ok it had me thinking . the original toyota dealer should be named and shamed al least any potential future customers would know how they may be treated i think it was disgusting how the customer was treated also by refusing and claiming that the damage shown is criminal
a Dealer lying? WHAT THE HELL !
The fact that it shows 13,995 miles on the dash and 14045 miles on the software proves that the car somehow knows how far it's driven. Maybe the true mileage is stored in the TCM or ECM and does record the mileage from a transmission sensor but the cluster reads it from the actual wheel speed sensor and does it's own calculation as to how many miles it was driven. It is crazy to see this kind of weird design.
No this part of the video is post repair.
@@autodiagyt I see that you posted that, thanks for clarifying. This is good ammo to fight for the rights of car owners and help them keep it on the road longer.
I bought a new BMW in 2016. I took it in for a minor issue and they said it had been in a major wreck. Long story short, they confused the line where the clear bra ends with a paint line that might be created with a respray. Total buffoons. How do you work in the automotive industry and not know what a clear bra is? Never took my car back to that dealership.
Crazy!
Put me on the jury.
See if you can use a Lemon Law. Lawyer fees are covered here in Michigan. Even is you bought it in another state.
I don't think this would qualify because an attempt to repair hasn't been made.
And you need multiple repair attempts.
And I believe you have to be the original owner
DO all new cars have cameras that monitor events and people do not know?
Toyota is the only one that I know of that records it in a way that a dealer could retrieve it