Cab ride an EMD ML2 : Australian locomotives and railroads
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Take a ride in this EMD 50's model ML2 and listen to the magic roar of a non turbo 16 cylinder 567 as she is notched up and makes transition. A few of these old beast are still out there in every day main line traffic in Victoria and New South Wales.
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No other sound in the world like standing behind those roots blowers while notching up like that. Gives me goosebumps every time!!
SpeakerPolice I miss running the old EMDs. They had a character unlike modern power. It was a good experience to run them in main line service before they were all gone.
Oh what memories that sound makes from the 70's when I was a fireman at South Dynon.
Wonderful EMD music!
The Roots Blowers 567 serries certainly did whine. I've heard enough of them, and driven some, here in Canada.
Love sound of that engine
Thanks for the memories we had the 42 class
great video love that sound brings back great memories in Ireland we had GMs with 567. 645 and 710 engines. class of locos were 121. 141. 181. 071. and 201. all thats left now is the last two.
"Roots blown epicness...", as we've been known to say around these parts.
Roots spelt correctly, 'blower' used correctly. Thou art a man of true class.
The second best sound in railroading. Only downgrade in full dynamics is better. Great vid. Thanks.
They look like our E8s. I suspect they may be similar if not identical. Now days when I see a video of our E8s they are merely crawling along, it was nice to see one really covering some ground, though that whine in the engine room would have made me nervous! Still neat though, the E8s and F units (Es have 6 axles F have 4) are still some of my favorites!
I remember years ago when I was a kid there was a B class stopped outside of the Footscray tunnel waiting to cross the bridge. Friendly driver said I could hop up and take a look around then he said I could go look at the engine so I did, then he revved it up and scared the crap out of me and I was out of there in a flash to see him and the fireman laughing their heads off. All in good fun of course. Another time that same driver was on the Maribyrnong Street siding and waiting for clearance to head back toward town. When he got it he let me drive it for about 100 yards or so, quite a thrill for a young kid.
The transition is to do with the start and run of the electric traction motors. All motors start in a parallel connection with low voltage and high current to get all of it moving. As the locomotive and train get faster the traction motor voltage needs to increase and the current will reduce as less tractive force is required. The transition with increasing speed is used to connect a pair of motors in series that has less current but more voltage. There are some locomotive designs that have a third connection set up which is to connect a resistor to reduce the motor field current. This setting was only used when the locomotive was really motoring and is not energy efficient with a DC traction system. Hence the conversion or use of AC that varies the frequency over all speed ranges and still gives higher efficiency.
Transition and adding resistance to the field has nothing to do with efficiency, it's solely a function of back EMF. It's called field weakening and when applied to series wound motors will really make them pull hard. As a manufacturer of AC drives I can tell you all that's occured is the complexity of the series DC motor was taken away for the simplicity of AC motors only to trade simplicity in controls to horrifically complicated AC drives.
If you applied the same processing horsepower to a DC motor controller as we are today with AC drives, the DC motor would do just fine. It was marketing and manpower reduction nothing more.
Grew up in Dunolly and this sound is etched into my memory. Nothing beat the sound of an ML2 hauling up Gooseberry Hill.
and it ( the whine ) was much louder on our A7's ( later to become A16C ). The A7 had a very distinctive note and could be picked out from an ML2 quite easily without having to look. And you are right, they sound nothing like a turbocharged unit.
Great video, Rod. Love the engine room scene and the sound of the dear old B class going through its transition stages.
Correction... The whine that you hear is the Supercharger or roots blower. Turbocharged engines are a little louder and have a very high pitch as if it was hissing at higher rpm's. Very few 567 engines were turbo because two strokes are more efficient and peppy with blowers.
The sound of the machine room is wonderful
Hope that old girl is on the rails for years to come.
Love the sound of these old EMD's... Brings back memories of when I was a kid watching freights go past my grandfather's house in Newport. (probably watching you drive past!)
Sweet! Loved the sound out that motor winding up! Well done! Rich
The difference is maintenance of way. We run on both gauges and they are both rock n roll. The track on the left side is 4'81/2". The EMD's are perfectly suited to both gauges and run on an even wider gauge in India where it is 5'6".
I love the classic EMD locomotives. I work for one of the last North American large systems to use old 567 powered units. It is neat to wind them out on the big iron, especially now that they are over 50.
magic, tyvm for posting
Fantastic footage Rod. Love the sound in the engine room. Thanks for sharing. Jack... 5*****
I use the real builders classification to draw interest from outside Australia. VR used the same letter classification from the very beginning. I have no idea why. The only difference in ride is that which is felt as a result of coupling slack when part of the train pushes or pulls suddenly. Bad train handling can make it very severe.
ok thanks you got some great vids I realy like the old 567s pulling the 2% hill- bank LOL
What an awesome sound beautiful
man that was great i love them old girls well done cheers
Wow I just realized that Australian locos are opposite(engineer on the left instead of right and vice versa for vehicles) like the cars and trucks are compared to ours. Cool !!!😎
Know that sound only too well , we had the non turbo roots blower 567 and 645 8 cylinder units 950 hp and 1,100 hp in Ireland all we have now is the turbo charged 645 in our 071 type loco 2,475 hp and the 710 3,200 hp in the 201s all 12 cylinder. The Re-Engined Metropolitan Vickers A and C class locos had a 645 12 and 8 cylinder units 1,325 and 1,100 hp.
They have Turbocharged 567-16 Engines, which you can tell from the high pitched whine. The units that had Roots Blowers don't have the Whine
It's only loud when it is revving and the cab is not so loud that we can't talk to each other. Having said that everybody gets some industrial deafness after a few years on the trains.
EMD which used to be a division of General Motors.
An Excellent Video. ♡ T.E.N.
Hey mate you got a pretty good understanding of the transition side of things. If i can can make a small point....I used to work on locomotives back in the 80s here at QR in townsville. We used to have a class of main generator type EMD loco here. 1502 class. Those locos also used to incorporate "field shunting" as part of the transition process. So the loco would start off in series..then to series with field shunting...then to parallel...then parallel with field shunting.
This would be awesome
Rod my comment was not meant as a poke at anyone or anything in particular. I was a Kiwi loco Engineer and before that I travelled the world extensively observing such things about positions of drivers controls and which side of the cab or centre or wherever they are situated on. Up until last year I lived in the UK for 7 years and have been to Japan 3 times and over a year in the USA plus Europe. I use universal English because a lot of people can understand better than the Queen's English.
Great job. Well done.
Great video
We never get motion sickness because the motion is constantly variable unlike being in a rocking boat. Locomotives have electric motors driving the wheels They are wired to the generator or alternator in various combinations of pairs or by three or individually. In electrical terms this is called series/series parallel/parallel. Transition is the switching from one group to another. It is used to achieve pulling power or higher speed.
Man,at 1:13 that 567 is singing a song!
Helps keep the crews alert :-)
Transition is changing the traction motors between parallel and series circuits, in short. An education in electrical circuits is needed for a more thorough explanation. It helps make the main generator perform to its full potential over the whole speed range of the locomotive.
Is that going from star to delta?
that is AC this is DC. find info online.
Well its to stop the dc traction motors from generating their own current as speed increases isn't it?
If they do that the loco can't go any faster because input current to the traction motor armateur is opposed stopping further acceleration. I may just be a stupid cun* gunzel fat pig c*nt, but isn't it called back EMF?
I'll crawl back in my hole now.
Merry fi$tma$ ...
@@ThePaulv12 +1 for Back EMF.
@tpvalley yes, the switch from series to parallel on this unit. This particular unit has no field shunting. The older manual switching goes back to the 1940's, maybe early 50's. This loco was the first ever EMD type to have six traction motors. It ran three pairs in series and six individual motors in parallel. Forward transition was at approximately 30mph and backward occurred when the main generator was making 2500 AMPS
Fantastic cabin views from an ML2 Diesel Electric Locomotive!😄🏗️📢
It's just like train simulator irl o3o
Thanks for the video Rod. Can you please put some more cab ride videos on youtube. I love the sounds.
thanks mate! cheers!
I've ridden in E and F series units here in the US but never experienced any "rocking" such as seen here. The track here looks like it the wider 5 foot three and a half Austrailian gauge. EMDs were originally intended for 4 foot eight and a half track so I'm wondering if that difference has any effect on the rolling dynamics.
Nice
@applesweeter No, the engine and electrics came from the US. The body was built and the entire unit assembled in Australia.
@applesweeter They were built here but all of the running gear is EMD from the US.
@johnparkimp3
drive on left, have signals on left so driver sits on left, it comes from steam days when the driver only got a clear view from his side, and vice versa.
Love 567s!!!! Only thing better is an ALCO 539 or 251.
@Rocketboy1950 - You have a lot of truly fascinating stuff here
They are mechanically the same as an SD7
Now that's a sound I miss. A screamin 12pack at full bore
It is the SD7
A lot of them field shunt the traction motors to get speed. Our old B's and C's were a bit different with no field shunting at all. Likewise the V/Line N's. Some of the big new stuff shunt across the alternator but I have to admit to not knowing the finer points of that system.
Rod Williams Here in North America, most 4 axle EMDs with a traction alternator, vs. generator don’t do transition. The 6 axle units do transition, some in the alternator windings. as opposed to motor transition.
@SpeakerPolice There are a few in my site but taken whilst at rest. I covered ALCO and GE units as well. Look in the playlist "from the cab"
This is a GREAT video. The engine sounds so good. It sounds like ours Class MY here in Denmark. How many of these engine are still in use in Australia ?. Great video....i like it wery much. Thanks. Hi from John.
@S311 There is S class cab video on the trip back from Wycheprooff
@ozhardcunt Thanks for your reply. As mentioned I have no trouble with R/Y/G on traffic lights and the tests are in colour for me, it's just on some of the ones they show me I can see 2 sets of numbers on the one picture and I'm not sure which one to pick :/
Excellent. =)
@johnparkimp3 Been to the UK or Japan ? We drive on the left hand side of the road and the railroad. A great deal of the world does. And with locomotives being phased out in favour of self propelled passenger trains all over the world the driver is going in to the centre of the cab. Note that I'm spelling in English and not US English. The driver does sit on the right on our iron ore roads as we buy US/Canadian built units straight off the shop floor or used. We have ex UP SD90's on the way now.
Wow, what a fantastic sound from inside the carbody! I just love that 567 engine sound. Have you by any chance got any more videos inside engine compartments? 8D
@applesweeter Not really, we have unique locomotives and railcars but they are all powered by off the shelf power and equipment from the big manufacturers in the US and Europe.
Thank you for your video
No sorry mate, that's a four day drive from my place. Look up Phil Melling on RailPicturesdotnet and get in touch with him. I think one of his boys is shooting video over there.
Please tag this as "cabview", it helps those of us as look for this sort of clips.
Wonderful diesel sound!
The throttle merely sets the revs The cables transmit the throttle setting to other units. From there it gets far too complex for me to answer in this space. You might try googling some of it. Try something like EMD control systems or Woodward governor.
@roadwolf2 That'd be a 16 in this instance. We didn't have any 12 cylinder non turbos in Victoria.
we gotta have more of that mate, next time can you film S303
@formidable38 Just a few bits of uneven track, generally not too bad.
Quite a bumpy ride, isn't it?
AMAZING! Ha when do you foresee SD70M-2s or SD70ACe's taking over ?
Neither the SD7 or the ML2 had turbochargers so what are we talking about ?
The two mechanically driven superchargers on each engine of course...
you have great videos do you have any vid of the WATCO run line in western Australia its a grain haul line thanks Matt
Very cool!
is loud when you walk passed it?? and when you sit down in the cab as a passenger, do get any ringing in your ears???
@johnnyfarnham Trying to keep this really simple ( you can Google it ). To get maximum power from a diesel electric locomotive it starts off with the main generator wired up to the electric traction motors in series or series parallel. At a predetermined speed switches and contactors are altered to send power to the traction motors in parallel. Series gives high AMPS for starting. Parallel gives high voltage for speed. Locos also make backward transition if they get slowed by a grade.
Series connection also forces a sort of traction control as well since the current through each motor has to be the same... so if one traction motor decides to slip, the voltage rise across that motor would increase the lines of flux in the motor (which is what creates the torque) and would slow its speed, thus preventing a spin on that motor. Really slick... the only problem is you need to be able to develop enough voltage to feed all 6 in series... which you can't, which is why after a certain speed, they have to go series parallel to get more available voltage to pick up speed.
Rod,
You are the only bloke l know that refers to build models
So how did VR come up with road classes and numbers?
Is the ride in a light loco any different to one pulling a load?
Sounds more like an S (303...A7) than a B (74..ML2)...to me anyway! Unless the S was more noticeable than the B.
I could never work out why the had the Loco engineer on the left hand side in most Aussie and UK loco's. Most railway systems elsewhere have the driver's position on the right hand side.
Awesome footage!
A question on driving and colour blindness...
If a traineeship happens to come by and I apply for it I'm worried about the colour blindess test. The colour tests always throw me out as I cannot seem to make anything of the numbers yet I can tell the difference between red, green and yellow on traffic lights and other areas. Is it a simple matter that you must pass the colourblindness test or will they look at individual cases?
Any help is much appreciated.
Possibly six or seven of this model still in operation. I know that they were very similar to some Scandinavian units.
I really have not got a clue how it would be assessed under those circumstances.
@Rocketboy1950 Always wondered why the generators make that strange noise on 567's, im guessing but it must be the cooling vanes moving air on the armature or flywheel?
Hey Rod, a question how does the throttle actually alter the speed/power output?
And how does this occur on multi unit lash ups (via a jumper cable between the two units)
hairybob67 The throttle uses combinations of 4 wires to set the 8 throttle positions of the governors. These signals are passed through jumpers to the governors on connected units.
when u say "transition" is that the switching between series and series paralel etc?
I know on some older locos it was manual, used at different speeds and loads.
or was it a traction motor field divert ?
@JuanManuelGrijalvo Will do now that I know the term that is used
How many horsepower?
@rajnikantsharma
It aint bad once you shut the doors. Trips to
the doctor depend on ones age.
@johnparkimp3 I should have checked your country of origin. I just assumed that the comment had come from a person in one of those places that aren't aware that there are other places. I think you'll get my drift. No offence taken and none intended.
how do you get cab rids pleas reply
You ask the driver. Getting an official cab ride these days is nigh on impossible in most places. I never had much trouble, I was the driver.
so if there was a CSX siting and you could climb up and say hey can i look in the cab or something like that
You still used them in mainline service in 2010?
good old B class there eh dude
Is that as bumpy as it looks Rod??
Listen to thats roots blower start to sing a 1:00
What is transition exactly?
The stepping form notches 1 - 8 ?
No transition is when the traction motor groupings are changed electrically. These units start off with power going from the main generator to three pairs of motors. At about 50 km/h the power is backed off automatically and the contactors in the electrical cabinet switch to supply power to the six motors individually. It's all to do with low speed power and then the ability to provide enough voltage to get speed. When under load and at 2500 AMPS the reverse happens, speed is lost and low speed power increases. Note that the arrangements vary greatly across different types of locomotive.
Rod Williams Thanks, that's cool to know! :D
The purpose of transition is to use the available power of the Diesel
engine/generator as the speed of the locomotive/train increases.
A bit like a hose pulling a railway wagon.
A large amount of effort is required to start pulling the wagon but a smaller amount of effort to keep it rolling while walking.
As the horse tries to pull it faster while walking it can't as it runs out of the ability to efficiently use the power it has. The poor horse's starting power is still there, but it can't convert it into accelerating the wagon anymore, so it transitions into a trot. It reaches its maximum trotting speed so what then? To further increase increase speed it needs to break out into a gallop to exert the same force. Interestingly, the galloping force is the same as the starting force but exerted in a different way.
Like the horse the current required for starting traction is high, but as speed increases the current drops off - BUT - the traction motors begin generating voltage resisting the flow of more current into them limiting their ability to take more current. This is called back EMF. This is similar to our horse yeah?
The Diesel engine in each notch produces a known amount of horsepower.
In order to use the available power of any given power setting (notch) of the Diesel engine/generator combo the generator voltage must increase to maintain traction motor current.
I reckon you might know what will inevitably happen: yep the train speed will increase so much that the traction motor back EMF will equal the voltage limit of the generator.
What transition does is reduce the back EMF by changing the way the traction motors are connected to each other allowing the generator to force more current into the traction motors. They can change connections from series to parallel and complex mechanical switch gear in the electrical cabinet effects the changes. There are many ways to do it as Rod (above) points out "arrangements vary greatly."
There are ways of initialing transition too.
By train speed or by Generator voltage and amps.
Modern AC technology goes a fair way to get rid of transition.
Thank you for the incredibly complex and detailed response :)
I'm a mechanic and had to be able to move locos but was forbidden from driving them beyond transition according to regs.
As it turns out, the job never eventuated - in fact looking back I don't think it ever existed. I think it was a dodgy training organization initiative that contacted my employer on the promise of a non existent contract and we all went off and did the training after hours (unpaid of course) and our employer covered the course fees lol.