FULL! Subwoofer Calibration - EQ - Time Align - Target Curve - Volume Balance - Mains Integration!
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- This is a full subwoofer calibration using my two subs from start to finish. It covers everything from time alignment to targets, volume, and sub-to-mains integration. Unfortunately, going over every aspect of the EQ made the video long. It's 3 hours, so I apologize for that. But I wanted to make a video talking about and going over every aspect of how I calibrate my subs, and the results are excellent! I made a few mistakes along the way. Because it's in video format, I had to think about so many parts, but I got to my goal in the end. I hope you enjoy it.
NOTE: Sorry for blocking the subwoofer volume measurement with my camera, I didn't realize that would be blocking it. I totally forgot. However, I do get to show the volume on the SPL screen, so you can eventually see the result. Again sorry.
UPDATE: Since calibrating this way, I've noticed that I didn't need to SPL balance at 2db hotter than the mains. So what I've done is level matched the subs to the mains instead, -2db lower. I noticed quite early that the subs sounded super hot, being 2db over. This fixed that, so if anyone has subs that are simply too loud, I would aim for your sub volume to be equal to your mains when using a Spear and Munsil UHD Benchmark 4K Disc. It makes sense to me now, that once you've got a great calibration in place, everything needs to be level matched perfectly, and there's no need to go over on volume for any channel once you get your calibration right.
SHOUTOUTS
@ocaudiophile @joentell @hometheatergurus @HomeTheaterGamer
Thank you for making great videos over the years. You've been a great inspiration to me in calibrating my system!
#Subwoofer #SubwooferCalibration #SubwooferEQ
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Hi, I'm Carl, and I run a family-owned business called HD MOVIE SOURCE with my dad, Glen, and my brother, Mark. I'm a passionate movie fan and tech enthusiast, and I love talking about the quality of video transfers. Calibrating speakers and subwoofers, encoding 4K content, and exploring all things techy are all my favorite things to do. I'm also a big gamer, and World of Warcraft takes up a lot of my time, but hey, someone's gotta do it!
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I now finally understand the process of sub calibration! Thank you for taking the time to make this video!
Great to hear! Thank you JR, I appreciate it.
I think you did a PHENOMENAL job! I just don’t know what you did. I guess I’m just someone who needs to be able to ask live questions as they go. Well worth my time to watch, fantastic job sir! Thank you!
Thank you. I might make a simpler version soon.
Absolutely amazing video! Watching on 1.25 speed is perfect. The only piece I wish you could have shown at the end is a full sweep of your center channel to see how well the subs and center transition at the crossover frequency. You have the impulses aligned really well so I would imagine it should be a nice smooth transition, but it'd be cool to see the final result.
Also, just curious if you have ever tried Multi-Sub Optimizer? It can definitely make getting that initial flat sub response a bit more painless, though there is still some trial and error. Whether the end result would be any different is debatable, but it could prevent having to do the inverted target curve in MultEQ-X.
Either way, thank you so much for your efforts. It shows that one really doesn't need Dirac or Dirac Live Bass Control to achieve truly amazing bass which, in the end, increases the movie watching enjoyment so much.
Thank you. I didn't actually think to show the combined response, but it's very good. I haven't tried MSO, but I've heard it does a really nice job. I don't think any room correction that's automated could achieve this response personally. I've never seen them come anywhere near this close.
Thank you very much for pulling back the curtain on this very often hidden important aspect of system sonic tuning. Much appreciated.
I appreciate it Simon, I hope it helps. Let me know how your calibration goes.
@@hdmoviesource I have already dialed in my subwoofer , mainly for music, and have finally heard what others have been talking about, at last. If I replace my cheapish subwoofer I will definitely use your methods to achieve what it has taken me 'years' to do. Thank you for your time and reply. Much appreciated.
Okay, nice. Enjoy Simon!
Great Carl, thank you for your time and your great work! Thanks Carl! Greetings from Austria!
Thank you Austria and thank you Dan.
Thanks for taking the time to make these videos. I feel like I have bass management dialed in but the idea of using MultEQ-X and the minidsp together is interesting! I followed this process from OCA and now you and it's been working great. I did a recent calibration using variable smoothing and got nice results. The higher resolution at the lower frequencies sorted out some of my problem spots better than a complete psy smoothing target. "Variable smoothing applies 1/48 octave below 100 Hz, 1/3 octave above 10 kHz and varies between 1/48 and 1/3 octave from 100 Hz to 10 kHz, reaching 1/6 octave at 1 kHz. Variable smoothing is recommended for responses that are to be equalised." Thanks again!
Thanks Brian. My only issue with VAR smoothing is when using the inverted target curve method. It's way too aggressive. I'm having -16 and +12 increases in the mains channel. I'm just not prepared to do that kind of EQ. From everything I've tried so far, psychoacoustic smoothing provides me with an incredible sound, and is easier on systems to EQ with.
The combination of Mini-DSP and MultEQ-X is so good, it sounds amazing. And yet again, I didn't want MultEQ-X to do any of the heavy stuff, it's only correcting minor things, which is how I want it. It's definitely a fun time for EQ right now, and I'm really enjoying it.
Agree 💯 between Carl and OCA we have magic!
I have followed this method and find that when I do the first EQ to flat, my volume drops significantly. Do I turn up the physical Sub gain at that time?
Would it make sense to SPL align to 0 before EQ, so I don’t have the volume loss?
Also, have you tried the “run measurement with filters” inside REW? It seemed pretty accurate.
Yes, turn the volume back on the subs, but also, adding the room curve after ads some back too.
Awesome video dude, finally a full sub calibration ride-along 😃
Thanks! 👍 Lawrence.
The audio quality of the mic on your headset is ridiculously good
Thanks, I think I can make it better.
Thank you, I learned something new today. 🎉
Thanks Carl, you are my Hero🙏👍
Thank you Gurus.
That's a awesome tutorial! Thank you!
Would love to see a timestamps on timeline so it would be easier to find the specific sections in video :)
Noted! I will try and start doing that. I\'m new to this RUclips stuff, LOL.
@@hdmoviesource I have question, applying such a high boosts to counter other filters in REW EQ, as you did doesn't make subwoofer sweating? And same question when you put +7db house curve in INPUT PEQ in miniDSP.
Well, my EQ is -15db to get it flat, so it's not an issue for me. You could use a -7db volume cut on the input if you have issues.
Nice video thank you for this understanding on how to do the target curve and how to use the time alignment tool I will definitely be trying this soon also I am curious how your seat to seat constantly is compared to using MSO thanks again for the time and effort you put in
Glad it was helpful! I've never used MSO, but yeah it would be interesting to see. Let me know how it goes.
Thank you Carl.
Thank you Cheekster, this one was a joy to work on.
This is a phenomenal video. I keep rewatching the video and replaying certain elements to understand it better. One quick question what did you set the crossovers to before you start the calibration? I'm aware you set the sub to -10 and LPF to 120Hz but can't seem to find what you set the crossovers to eg. 250Hz???
LPF for LFE to 250hz for calibration, then back to 120 once finished.
Hi. Something that has confused me for some time now, if you volume align the sub to the speakers with a house curve or low shelf filter applied then aren’t you actually taking away that bass gain you created with the curve / low shelf ? The 30-80hz pink noise will be louder and you would then end up bringing the SPL down.
Incredible video! Thanks soo much. I have an rz50 with Dirac Live, so after EQing in REW flat and saving to minidsp should I then do Dirac and then add the room gain to minidsp post Dirac calibration?
Yes, that should allow Dirac to perfectly calibrate your sub to your desired curve. That's actually what I'm doing now. EQ flat, and then let Audyssey handle the room curve.
@@hdmoviesource So I did everything as per video and it eq'd amazing in REW and Dirac did a phenomenal job after! I added in the room gain - which in my instance was 5.8 post dirac however, I still have a very flat curve. It is the best it has ever sounded, but I feel only at high volume and at moderate volumes it feels slightly lacking.
That's awesome! It feels good to get your system sounding really good.
I really prefer clicking "level phase at cursor". It removes the same amount of delay from each measurement while using the tool. Further, i prefer to manually adjust the sliders and polarity. Checking impulse mainly as a sanity check. Or to get it close before perfecting phase alignment.
True, I do this for my subwoofer calibration, and it really helps.
This video is incredible. Thank you so much for making the effort and sharing your knowledge.
I have a problem and wonder if you could help me?
I perform the calibration on my two subs and I get a nice flat response. My problem is that when I then try to do a Dirac live calibration the subs are way too low (during the volume setting procedure)even though they are calibrated to 75db? It’s probably a Dirac issue but I’m scratching my head thinking what’s going on?
All the best
Hi again. Bit of an update on my query.
Apparently there is a long running issue with Dirac live and the umik 1 on Macs!
I went on the Mini dsp forum and it hasn’t worked properly for 8 months. Dirac have finally acknowledged there is a problem. Wowsers, I’m stunned I’d not heard about this. They actually advertise each others products stating they are recommended devices!
The work around is to download much older versions of Dirac. Not good enough. Can even smell a class action. People have spent lots of money on these premium products.
Cheers
Cheers
Can you disable or ignore the sub calibration from Dirac?
Interesting, thanks Jim.
@@hdmoviesource Hiya, Yes you can drag “curtains” over areas that you don’t want Dirac to touch. There’s a curtain for low and high frequencies. I only have the version of Dirac that can adjust frequencies up to 500hz. I do hope I can use the latest and potentially best, version of Dirac. It’s a shame and a head scratcher as Dirac does really improve on soundstage, focus etc.
Many thanks again for your videos, I honestly didn’t have much of an idea on REW and the mini dsp but by watching you and making mistakes I’ve got to a position where it makes sense and most importantly my bass has never sounded so good.
Cheers
Good to know Jim, thanks. Yeah, you just gotta get in there, make mistake and learn, and one day it will all make sense, LOL. Hopefully, lol.
Thanks for the video!
I am following the same RUclipsrs as you, but this video still cleared some things up.
Didn't @ocaudiophile use and average of multiple measurements for EQ?
Btw, did you watch the MSO video's of @jeffmery ? That's a great starting point and highly recommended for doing multiple seats with multiple subs.
On AVS there are even some newer methods, including adding an All-Pass Second-Order filter, that did some great things here.
I don't know how many rows/seats you have, but at our place MSO made a HUGE difference in seat to seat consistency.
Even the 2nd row has equal bass now.
I'm not sure, I have seen OCA use quite a few different methods. I have seen some of Jeff's videos. I've never used MSO before, maybe one day. Can the Mini-DSP use all-pass filters? I have 1 row and 3 seats.
@@hdmoviesourceI have the MiniDSP 2x4HD and that one supports it. Maybe first measure all 3 seats. If they're all good there is no need for MSO. If they're all different I'd give it a shot.
If you watch how to measure the right way for MSO, I can help you set it up if you want, and try some configs.
I've found that I have better results with a single seat measurement, especially for speakers. I've never tried multi-seat subs because I felt the speaker calibration was poor.
Top Videos! Thanks
Thanks for watching! Might make a new one soon, following an actually target curve.
Why cant I ever get rid of all my peaks and knulls like you did in your videos. My eq curve always end up all spiky and with knulls.
How big are they?
Hi Carl ✌️ Why do you use external files and not the internal REW Schweeps? Since 5.20 you can also measure Java 7.1! Is there a particular reason why you are still working with the external files? The result is awesome with your method 👍
Yes Dirk, I use OCA'S files that you can play using VCL Player. They're Atmos sweeps, and I think they sound better than the tones that REW uses. The only one I still use REW for is the subwoofer, because there's no roll-off using REW.
Thanks Carl, got it 😉 Do you know what would be really cool? A video of you setting up all the speakers (including the Atmos top speaker), time aligned, from start to finish with OCAś files or Spatial Audio Blu ray 😉 Oh and a link to the latest OCA files would be great too 👍
OCA's Atmos Sweeps: drive.google.com/drive/folders/14P-jnVOKs-rNLb-QGp3GmgEJLLNpaXTR?usp=sharing
Thank you for this video; but what to do if i don't have a MiniDSP (because i have only 1 SW)?
Do have the ability to EQ your sub?
@@hdmoviesource Unfortunately NO. It's a 'nuSub XW-900' from a german company called 'nubert'; they are producing really good speakers and they are located next to my domicile! I'm only using MultEQ-X and REW (AVR: Denon X4800H) and all the speakers are really good calibrated by your 'inversion over target'-method!
Okay, well, you can use a normal method to EQ speakers without inversion first. Once you are happy with the flat EQ, then use the inversion method. It can be done with MultEQ-X.
Hey Carl, I’ve been going through the steps in this video but am a bit confused. Is the LFE sub limited pink noise on Spears&Munsil -40.0 dbfs? And is the VLC LFE sweep recorded 10 db low? I ask because I used REW tone generator at -30.0 dbfs for center and then -40.0 dbfs for subs to get the 2.0 db difference between the two. Everything was looking really good, but when I swept the subs for alignment (using -12.0 dbfs signal and center at approx. 75.0 dB) and the subs were insanely loud. I suppose I could use the external sweeps but I never have luck getting VLC to output to my receiver.
Spears & Munsil is -40.0 dbfs, yes. Right now I'm using a different method for my subs. I'll make a video about it soon.
Do you have your subs right next to each other? Because their responses are so similar that's what it looks like. You should really try putting them farther away from each other. But I guess if you're just worried about one seat it doesn't matter that much.
No, I have one sub on the left corner, and one in the right corner. They're about 14 feet away from each other, but it's a symmetrical room Chad.
Top Content, Merci!!!
Is a double eq (mini-dsp and audyssey) not a problem (Multiple da/ad/da converting and Filters over Filters) ?
I don't think so. I'm not seeing any issues from doing this.
Do you use Multi EQ XT32? Or just XT? I have just audyssey XT and I think it just doesn't have the filters available to correct the bass in my speakers because no matter what target curve I give it it doesn't do much except a giant broad band boost or cut at one frequency under 150hz for my speakers. subs are fine but the low end of speakers is real hard to correct lol
by the way, for more filters on minidsp you can use the biquads in the crossovers for each sub and also input signal. you have to write them in as biquads but it does work. This is what Multi Sub Optimizer does to get more filters.
I use Multi EQ XT32. But, down low, it doesn't have as much resolution as a Mini-DSP. For speakers, I psychoacoustical smooth and that's about as much correction as you need for speakers in my opinion. Correction for speakers doesn't have to be bleeding edge perfect.
@@hdmoviesource I think being more critical of below 500hz is good because we are more sensitive to peaks and dips under around 500hz. If you just use psychoacoustic smoothing, you could have a giant dip at 100hz and you barely know it. I've been using Var Smoothing to try to see what's really going on and try to get it as smooth as possible! It's really hard though with just the XT version of Audyssey lol.
Yeah, that type of resolution is too much for MQX.
So the AVR sub trim ended up at -10db and what was the volume on the sub at the end?
Around 80%
@@hdmoviesource thanks for replying
Thank you.
Hi. Can I ask, because you aligned IR at cursor at 70hz, do you then change the crossover of left and right speakers to 70hz? I also look forward to you new time alignment method. When do you think this will be out?
I thought that's how it's supposed to work, but for some reason it doesn't always work out like that. Sometimes, you have to play around with it and see which gives you the best response.
I followed your tutorial and got a pretty decent curve but I’m having an issue where make vocals are heard on the subs. This is with 120hz LFE cross. Any suggestions?
LPF for LFE should be 120hz, but speaker crossover should probably be lower. Start backing down the crossover until you can't hear issues with it.
@@hdmoviesource I’ve been tinkering around with it and you’re right. Lowering the speaker crossover to 100hz fixed the issue. I’m running Definitve Technology Bp2000’s with the built in 15” sub, id like to run them a lot lower but i find they get in the way of my house curve with my main subs when the x-over is set much lower. Thanks again!
Right now I'm using 110hz crossover, and it sounds really good on my system. I've been using 80hz for years, and this sounds better.@@jasoncapino4679
@@hdmoviesource I’m satisfied with the sound. I have three Velodyne DD12’s which is plenty in the bass department. I feel like I’m wasting the powered towers crossing them so high.
I would think of it the other way around. You're utilizing the power of having 2 subs, rather than wasting power of the mains. I think you're wasting the power of your subs. But, I think anywhere from 80hz to 110hz is fine for a crossover if it helps with aligning them.
After watching this video many times, I’m still confused on one thing, when you EQ to flat and add 120hz lpf back in, you get the -6db roll off, when you then add the low shelf filter boost in Minidsp the the 120hz roll off increases to what looks like around -10db. Is this correct as I’m also getting similar results. Love watching your videos btw. I’m looking forward to your video on speaker distance settings
That's correct yes. After making this video, I actually lowered the house curve by exactly 50%, and that made the system sound a little more balanced. It unquestionably has ultra deep bass, but, I think more balance is needed. I have another video, where I just calibrate to a target curve, which may be better. I have a video out right now for audio timing. It's really good, but I have another coming soon.
Hi Carl, nice Video, why you dont use the input eq on minidsp to correct the cal file?
Importing just as you die at the output.
Greetingd
On the input I place my room curve, and on the output I place my calibration.
😀 but you could combine the roomcurve with with the correction in REW or am i wrong?
Not that I know of no. If you find out how to import a text file to Mini-DSP I'd love to know.
Hey ist me again, you can Import the Rom curve as Text in the eq of REW
Yes.
was it not better to set your sub distance in the receiver at around zero feet? use the delay in dsp for timing and at the end for the crossover with the main use the sub distance in the receiver? more room and controling one slider for two subs..
No, that puts the subs too far away. The distance is the opposite of you you're thinking it is.
@@hdmoviesource ah oké.. i also have 24ms in dsp.. too much i quess.. but didn’t get a flat response lower delay , fighting with a null in the 90 hz
Okay, could try 110hz crossover.
this method seems to me to be over complicated
I'll make a simpler version soon.
Did you gain match your subs first? Not sure if what I did was 💯 correct, I placed all 4 of my subs in the exact same location and turned the volume knob on the back of the subs to the half way pont/12 o'clock position. Then recorded each subs volumes using the the tone generator at 55hz and then in minidsp adjust the volume up or down to all match the same volumes without touching the knob on the back of the subs. This is what I have seen to be the best way as it takes out any room modes that may occur. Once I've adjusted the volume(s) of the subs in the minidsp I place all of the subs back to their locations and begin measuring the subs.
Yes, when my subs are set to the same volume they are gain matched. And I agree that the room changes its volume slightly by room acoustics and positioning, so having a 1 dB difference at MLP is completely fine in my opinion. Thanks Christian.
This is why I was asking... Very informative video from home theater gurus... ruclips.net/video/tDaZT5G0Mwg/видео.htmlsi=t6AOVqOhWvdTw1Nj
Episode 7 was majorly helpful as well.. 👍
Also episode 7...
ruclips.net/video/_A6gPCczhuU/видео.htmlsi=Hrj9XlSIur-5kKEr
Thanks. I've seen them all before, but I could do with a refresher.