Anthony, I know you are aware of MSO. Why don't you utilize it for this? It has come a long way in the new version with it's "spl maximization". If you read its documention, everything is explained, so you will know what it is doing behind the scenes.
He mentions it at 7:10. MSO can give some messed up results like delaying one sub by 20-30ms or reducing one sub’s gain by 20db, but it’s good when it works
He said it takes too long also, he isn't just there to calibrate subs. His entire process can take longer than 8 hours. He has to manage his workflow in his best interest.
Quick question to BigBenni and anyone else with MSO experience: I own 2x old SVS SV1000 subs and want to add another 2x higher priced / better sealed subs to my room. Can I still get very good results using different pairs (2x SV1000 in Rear Corners & 2x Let’s say Martin Logan New Abyss 10 Sealed Subs in Front Corners) utilising REW + MSO? Or is it strongly recommended that all 4x subwoofers be identically matching? Thanks guys!!!
This gave me confirmation I was doing the right thing when calibrating my system. I'm now going back to play around with some delays. Thanks Mr. Grimani, I literally watched all your past videos with Audioholics.
Just wondering, how about the idea of delaying first the front 2 subs and summing them as one virtual sub and then adding the rear subs one by one by individually delaying to form a final bigger virtual sub . Will that yield the same result as delaying in pairs ( as shown in the video ) or have a different summation.
I usually run test signals around 80dBSPL, which is high enough to stay well away from the noise floor of the room and house, but not so loud that I go deaf by the end of the day! After al is said and done, I do set a reference level on the volume control, using either 85dBSPL from the 5.1 Audio Toolkit DVD or 89dB SPL from the Dolby Atmos demo BD Pink noise test signals.
Hiya, nice to see the master at work. I have a question. Doesn’t the Time alignment tool in REW software achieve this? I’m very new to this area of dsp etc and learning all the time. Am I barking up the wrong tree? Cheers
On this video I am using a 4-channel DSP-equipped power amplifier. I usually set them up as 1: Front Left, 2: Front Right, 3: Back Left, 4: Back Right, but the order doesn’t really matter.
Flat down to as low as the subwoofers will reasonably go; cutting off somewhere around 30 to 25Hz. Then set the overall in-band level so that it is about 5 to 6dB above the mid-frequency level of the speakers; that yields a natural-sounding bass.
@@grimanisystems thanks for the info. Do you roll-off those big 21” subwoofers too at about 25 -30 hz? How do you set those up to play with the smaller subwoofers?
@grimanisystems - Informative videos, thank you very much for making them. Just FYI, the playlist for these ("Calibration") is in the wrong order. It's part 4, 3, 2, 1 (thus far). :)
The camera handling noise was terrible! If it’s a cell phone, please get some sort of filming rig to avoid that noise and put a mic on who ever is speaking in your videos! Or just use the mic on those speaking, so we don’t have to hear the camera handling noise!
Very much agreed. We didn't actually expect to turn this into a video series, or I would have worn a wireless lavaliere mic, and would have used a tripod, or phone holder; maybe next time!!
@@tonygrimani I'd take all of the technical show and tell videos I can get even if you recorded them with a potato. Don't avoid uploading this invaluable information because someone complained about the sound, between video and bad sound and just no video - video every time.
Another great video ! It looks fascinating doing sub time and phase alignment in real time. I'm putting together a mic array system to see what my system is doing in real time and be able to time align my subs + mains in real time. Thank you for sharing your methods.
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Anthony, I know you are aware of MSO. Why don't you utilize it for this? It has come a long way in the new version with it's "spl maximization". If you read its documention, everything is explained, so you will know what it is doing behind the scenes.
He mentions it at 7:10. MSO can give some messed up results like delaying one sub by 20-30ms or reducing one sub’s gain by 20db, but it’s good when it works
@@ChadAV69 yes, if you don't know how to constrain and use it, it can give bad results. That's why I mentioned the documentation.
He said it takes too long also, he isn't just there to calibrate subs. His entire process can take longer than 8 hours. He has to manage his workflow in his best interest.
@@BuffSquadBigBenniI’m not saying I agree with him. I’m just letting you know what he said
Quick question to BigBenni and anyone else with MSO experience: I own 2x old SVS SV1000 subs and want to add another 2x higher priced / better sealed subs to my room. Can I still get very good results using different pairs (2x SV1000 in Rear Corners & 2x Let’s say Martin Logan New Abyss 10 Sealed Subs in Front Corners) utilising REW + MSO? Or is it strongly recommended that all 4x subwoofers be identically matching? Thanks guys!!!
This gave me confirmation I was doing the right thing when calibrating my system. I'm now going back to play around with some delays. Thanks Mr. Grimani, I literally watched all your past videos with Audioholics.
Just wondering, how about the idea of delaying first the front 2 subs and summing them as one virtual sub and then adding the rear subs one by one by individually delaying to form a final bigger virtual sub . Will that yield the same result as delaying in pairs ( as shown in the video ) or have a different summation.
That’ also a good way to do the successive iterations.
So trying to get the most efficiency you can before flattening the response in order to maximize dynamic range?
That’s right!
What volume do you EQ your speakers at, and what about the subs?
I usually run test signals around 80dBSPL, which is high enough to stay well away from the noise floor of the room and house, but not so loud that I go deaf by the end of the day! After al is said and done, I do set a reference level on the volume control, using either 85dBSPL from the 5.1 Audio Toolkit DVD or 89dB SPL from the Dolby Atmos demo BD Pink noise test signals.
Hiya, nice to see the master at work. I have a question. Doesn’t the Time alignment tool in REW software achieve this? I’m very new to this area of dsp etc and learning all the time. Am I barking up the wrong tree?
Cheers
Analysis tools are great, but use your ears, Luke!
Thanks for the reply. I’ll give this way a go.
Cheers from the UK.
Why using outputs 1 and 4 on the minidsp for the rear subs vs using outputs 3 and 4 ?
On this video I am using a 4-channel DSP-equipped power amplifier. I usually set them up as 1: Front Left, 2: Front Right, 3: Back Left, 4: Back Right, but the order doesn’t really matter.
Another pearl of wisdom! 👍
Do you use any specific targets on your subs?
Flat down to as low as the subwoofers will reasonably go; cutting off somewhere around 30 to 25Hz. Then set the overall in-band level so that it is about 5 to 6dB above the mid-frequency level of the speakers; that yields a natural-sounding bass.
@@grimanisystems thanks for the info. Do you roll-off those big 21” subwoofers too at about 25 -30 hz? How do you set those up to play with the smaller subwoofers?
You do know there is a Time Alignment function in REW?
Yes, analysis tools are great, but use your ears, Luke!
@grimanisystems - Informative videos, thank you very much for making them. Just FYI, the playlist for these ("Calibration") is in the wrong order. It's part 4, 3, 2, 1 (thus far). :)
If I got into this I would never end up watching anything 😂 just connect, do your basic calibration and enjoy! Haha
Well he’s been doing this for decades. He can finish in a few hours
Every time i run an iteration of MSO there is a little Grimani inside the computer doing this
The camera handling noise was terrible! If it’s a cell phone, please get some sort of filming rig to avoid that noise and put a mic on who ever is speaking in your videos! Or just use the mic on those speaking, so we don’t have to hear the camera handling noise!
Very much agreed. We didn't actually expect to turn this into a video series, or I would have worn a wireless lavaliere mic, and would have used a tripod, or phone holder; maybe next time!!
@@tonygrimani I'd take all of the technical show and tell videos I can get even if you recorded them with a potato. Don't avoid uploading this invaluable information because someone complained about the sound, between video and bad sound and just no video - video every time.
Another great video ! It looks fascinating doing sub time and phase alignment in real time. I'm putting together a mic array system to see what my system is doing in real time and be able to time align my subs + mains in real time. Thank you for sharing your methods.