My favorite quote I've ever heard about this scene is 'imagine telling your cyborg wizard boss that his religion is bullshit in the middle of a conference.'
I once watched a USN Captain use the Death Star as an allegory for military procurement. He called Vader the "Deputy Undersecretary for Sith Affairs" and I've never been able to have that leave my head about this scene.
The best part is Vader wasn't anyone's actual boss in IV. He was just a really good attack dog for the Empire with some hocus pocus magic powers as far as most cared. Tarkin actually outranked him at the time. Then ESB happened and Vader was given direct authority by the Emperor, and since nobody really knows the Emperor is ALSO an evil space wizard like Vader, the weirdo space wizard into a dead religion is suddenly killing Admirals with zero reprocussions and hiring bounty hunters all to find this ONE smuggler's YT freighter just so he can give said smuggler to a Hutt for...reasons. Cuz its not like the average Imp knows about the Son of Skywalker thing!
This scene is routinely overlooked by fans who miss the obvious connection between the dissolution of the Senate and Death Star finally becoming operational.
Definitely. The completion of the Death Star is what Palpatine was waiting for to finally dissolve the Senate and abandon even the facade of legislature.
@@danielkorladis7869 I'd imagine that the core worlds had defenses that would just laugh at most Imperial ships. Planetary shields, ion cannons, local fleets, starfighters, etc. The Death Star was meant for them, not outer rim backwaters like Yavin or Hoth.
@@StarryDrukhari you might even be able to argue that Palpatine didn’t even need to see the Rebellion as the biggest threat to the Empire. There were three good reasons to use it against them: 1. The Rebellion was the most public threat, 2. The Rebellion needed to be dealt with soon before it got out of control, and 3. They were most likely to be able to use it multiple times, as the Rebellion would likely have multiple cells.
@@CyberDrewan There were likely scattered rebel cells across the galaxy, but I doubt they'd have been able to offer more than local resistance. Yavin was the rebellion’s central hub, where its leadership and resources were concentrated. Destroying it would have decapitated the rebellion, leaving those smaller cells disorganized and unable to mount a coordinated threat. This explains why Vader was so confident that "this will be a day long remembered." Without the base at Yavin IV, the rebellion would have been essentially ended.
I agree. Tells you so much without being unnatural. The way Vader says "I find your lack of faith disturbing" is full of malice. The fact that it's delivered so quietly is genius line reading.
That line is so wonderfully iconic. James Earl Jones really was on another level, god rest his soul. I also love his semi-sarcastic “as you wish” when Tarkin tells him to release Motti. It’s almost as if he’s saying “Alright alright, I’ll acquiesce. I’ve had my fun and made my point.”
The best thing about "Empire Strikes Back" is that they took Vader, essentially a very good henchman villain, and made him into a very smart and cunning villain always thinking two steps ahead, even though throughout most of the film he seems to be one step behind. It also showed Vader was willing to sacrifice anything to get what he wanted.
I feel that the OT missed an opportunity to emphasize that Vader was "going off the reservation" in TESB, diverting Imperial resources to an increasingly personal quest. There's a tiny bit of it in his Skype with the Emperor, where he's pushed to make a case for capturing Luke instead of killing him, but imagine if he was getting himself into some deep doodoo with that gambit.
I disagree with your statement about Vader in ANH. When first watching, I got the impression that he had as much political power as Tarkin, just that his authority's jurisdiction was not the Death Star. And that he may have final say on the Death Star, but he has to and chooses to respect Vader because of his competence and capabilities. The same goes for Vader. I got the impression that if he wanted to, Vader could give Tarkin a hard time, and Tarkin would have to have a good reason as to why he has to tell Vader ''no''. There is mutual respect between them, and in the movie are both working to the same goal.
Vader showed his power by having the ability to FORCE CHOKE an ADMIRAL in front of all the others and suffer no consequences which means they were intimidated by him.
There is also the part where the Moff tells Vader to stand down and he does showing that even Vader is outranked or at least partially beholden to others of Rank and distinction.
Notable also is the visual symbolism. Tarkin isn't visually distinct from the other Imperial officers, and so serves as a stand-in for the Imperial system as a whole. And in being able to command Vader, shows that ultimately even he is beholden to the Imperial system.
But the _Way_ Vader complies (sarcastically/casually saying “as you wish”) hints that even tho the Moffs/Empire technically outrank him, he’s only playing along until he deems it no longer necessary.
@@UGNAvalon I don't think it's quite correct to say that Tarkin outranks Vader; Vader exists outside of and above any military chain of command. But Tarkin is in command of the Death Star and its mission, and obviously has the support of the Emperor to be there, and *needs* authority over his subordinates, so Vader won't undermine him without a good reason. But I don't doubt that Vader could have pulled rank if he truly felt the need.
I always read it as showing that Tarkin and/or the Emperor had something on Vader that compelled his cooperation, and it wasn't about the Force at all. Tarkin's later line, "You, my friend, are all that remains of their religion" supports this. Whether this means that the Emperor's Force ability is unknown to the rank and file (or hadn't yet been written into his character in 1977) is an exercise for the viewer.
Yes. Leia mentions not being surprised to see Tarkin holding Vader's leash in another scene. Vader in his original appearance was very much Tarkin's 'enforcer' and limited in what he could do. I think it's a little unfortunate that later media tends to look at his actions in ESB and RoTJ when he's fully 'off the leash' and going full attack mode on the rebels and killing Imperial officers willy-nilly and expand that behavior to the entirety of his 20+ year career and have him killing Imperial officers with impunity and wielding effectively unchecked power in the Empire to do whatever he wants prior to the battle of Endor. A little bit of flanderization of the character IMO that undercuts the narrative significance of him being unleashed with broad authority by the Emperor with the purpose of stamping out the rebels with extreme prejudice. It marked a turn of strategy by the Empire that we saw Tarkin's brute in charge of pushing the war effort instead of another strategist/governor type in charge.
"So imagine Colin Powell is getting ready to invade Iraq, and for some reason he has this monk hanging around him. No one really knows why this monk is hanging around, but he's Cheney's right hand man, and has some mysterious history with him so has to be treated respectfully. While the Joint Chiefs Of Staff are discussing invasion plans, the monk says "all your weapons of war are insignificant compared to shaolin kung fu" So general Petraues is like "ok, MR Miyagi, but grownups are talking" And then the monk hadoukens him. That's what happens in that scene “ (Only Vader had been around for a while so it doesn't quite map)
I think it's more on line of Starship Troopers on "why do we need Knife in a war. . . Put your hand up there. (Use a throwing knife to pierce the Hand). That's why we need to know how to use a knife! Medic!"
@@0predaking0 I hate that scene. Verhoeven took a scene about the instructor explaining the importance of a proportionate response and instead made him brutalise a recruit for asking a question. Verhoeven couldn't have misrepresented Heinlein's work more if he tried.
What I like about this scene is how the Empire is revealed to not be a monolithic entity - there are factions, and they don't all get along. You have Vader, whom we've seen in action already, but here we find out that he had one very specific job (find the rebel base) and that he's failed at that so far; as a result his colleagues don't respect him. We have Overconfident Admiral (Motti) who is absolutely convinced that the Death Star is the be all end all of imperial power. Opposing him is Cautious General (Tagge) who urges everyone to not underestimate the rebels, and to put more stock in traditional methods rather than crazy new superweapons. The argument between Motti and Tagge really shows that not only is the Empire overconfident, but it is quarrelling about how overconfident they are. Finally you have Tarkin, who somehow manages to agree with everyone: yes, Vader is as yet unsuccessful but he'll keep trying; yes, the Death Star represents a new era of imperial power, and yes, we will deal with the rebellion.
Up to that point Tarkin was the most effective out of all of them, including Vader, who was really just Palpatine’s blunt force servant while he was still coming to grips with the dark side. But even Tarkin fell to his own hubris, refusing to evacuate the Death Star when he most truly believed all these things were coming together.
Its common for dictators to encourage factionalism and competition and skulduggery among their lieutenants. Adolph for example had a convoluted labyrinth of agencies competing with one another for his affection. SA. SD. ss. Gestapo. Leibstandarte. Wermacht... on and on. This was intentional Palpatine Cleary wants competition between and among military and vader
There's also clear parallels between the Empire and Nazi Germany in this scene (and not the obvious ones). Hitler had a fixation on wonder weapons; The Bismark, the Gustav Gun, the Mouse Tank, etc, etc, but much like the Death Star, giant, super powerful weapons are expensive, slow to use, and ultimately very difficult to protect *because* they draw attention, and that's even if they actually get off the ground. The Gustav Gun in particular was destroyed by a small group of commandos with a small thermite charge which they used to slice a big hole in the barrel - pretty much the story of ANH
@@nickkerber1145 This is not actually true, although I agree that the empire was clearly influenced by GDR (Großdeutsches Reich), it actually deviates from the stereotypical impression of the actual course of war history. Apart from the final days of despair and madness, Hitler was not so obsessed with so-called 'miracle/revenge weapons'. Among the few things you mentioned, only the last one is strange and crazy. The Bismarck class battleships were part of the German Navy's Atlantic strategy at that time, and they knew they did not have enough strength to confront RN. Its purpose, along with other battlecruisers, was to attack maritime transport and serve as a conspicuous target to restrain enemy forces. When the Gustav artillery system was first designed, the war dominated by the fast armored forces known to later generations was not so credible. It was a product of World War I thinking and was initially built to break the Maginot Line (but Guderian/Manstein provided a better method, and Hitler decisively adopted it), and later used to deal with Sevastopol. It proved to perform very well in its own design purpose.
"... Or given you clairvoyance enough to the find the rebel's hidden fortress." A nod to the 1958 film that was the inspiration behind A New Hope and it's plot.
Hmm, would like to see this channel tackle Akira Kurosawa's classics, plus contemporary films like Samurai Story, when it comes to Star Wars connections.
This particular scene also reminds me of a similar scene in the first Jurassic Park where the cast sit down to discuss their views on what they have seen. Its short but sets up so many important elements. You see similar scenes in Star Trek too. Honestly feels like these 'table scenes' have disappeared
In the original German dub of this scene, Tarkin called the Emperor the "Kaiser". As in: The Monarchical Caesar of an Empire. You instantly imagine a crown, a throne, a royal court. It paints a wholly different world, more akin to the Dune universe, rather than the scheming politician we actually got in Palpatine. That's such a neat little anachronism and it shows how every single word in this scene was fundamental to the world of Star Wars. Change one sentence about Vader's use of the force or the rebellion and we'd have gotten a totally different Star Wars universe. Great stuff.
tbf, at that stage the lore about Emporer was completly different, like Palpatine didn't exist and the Emporer was someone that got corrupted by the Imperial Court, the whole Sith Lord came with ESB with the weird Woman with Pavian Eyes and the whole Sith Force User came with ROTS.
@@enisra_bowman The full cut of this scene does show that the sith elements were present as an aspect of the empire from the get go, going as far as to refer to them by name
In the writing world, this is the power of a "Briefing Scene." Some can condemn the concept of having briefings as an exposition dump or be possibly boring (especially when it isn't done right). However, in any type of widescale war epic, having a briefing scene is not only important, it's almost required as it lays the entire framework for the story. One of the things you notice that Star Wars did so well (especially in the original trilogy) is having briefings. New Hope and Return of the Jedi both did this to excellent effect. However, you will also notice that future SW movies tend to neglect this concept. The Last Jedi, for example, had multiple issues, including the lack of proper briefing scenes for the audience. For example, an emergency briefing can be discussed where the Resistance pilots are discussing what to do with the First Order closing in on the base, have the bomber pilots complain that their bombers had no shields and that they were sitting ducks for the First Order, that the resistance was poorly equipped and was using what they had, and other things that would make the events transpire more smoothly for the audience. If anything, the audience wouldn't just understand but feel more sympathy for many of the pilots who willingly gave their lives in hopes of a greater cause.
Dang, who knew a simple “expo dump”-type scene would’ve made such a terrible battle more palatable? 😧 And all bc the in-universe characters voice(/foreshadow) the same thoughts that the audience would have.
This is like one of the "only" examples in films where "show don't tell" would easily have been better if they didn't show and would actually tell the audience beforehand about the upcoming battle!
You don’t need expiation for simple shit. SW fans are brain dead , it makes complete sense for the rebels to use the bombers. Poe has them go and be used for something they aren’t great at so heavy casualties occur.
I rewatched A New Hope a week ago and something made this scene stand out to me more than it usually did With the articles talking about Andor season 2 showcasing Krennic trying to obtain funding for the Deathstar I'm hoping we get more scenes showcasing the innerworkings of the empire
I think about this scene all the time. So much worldbuilding and storytelling at once. Not to mention all the lines are dope as hell and delivered brilliantly.
Excellent analysis, EC Henry. That IS a great two minutes that does a lot to set up facts while feeling completely natural. In The Last Jedi, when it's revealed that Luke had been fooling everyone in that way, I immediately thought of Vader's line here: "The ability to destroy a planet is nothing compared to the power of the Force." Ah, so THIS is the kind of feat he was talking about! With Admiral Motti being choked, I'd also draw a parallel to the scene in the 5th Element where Zorg is choking on the cherry--all the power and wealth, but can it solve your current problem?
I absolutely love the scene. A bunch of governors discussing government affairs then a dark wizard walks in the room professing his religion and demonstrating it's power.😆 This sums up Star Wars in many ways for me.
It also shows directly just how high ranking Tarkin is, in his command over Vader. The latter has been previously shown to be near unstoppable and is visually extremely intimidating. Tarkin is visually not visually distinct from the other imperial military officials present (aside from being played by Peter Cushing) and so serves as a stand-in for the entire apparatus of the Empire. Vader is just one dude, as is even the Emperor. Tarkin stands for all those who make the Emperor's rule possible by enforcing it. By being able to order Vader around, he shows that the true monster is actually the fascist Imperial system.
I was told they are on different chains of command. Vader reports directly to the emperor and as such is sometimes ordered to fall under the direct command of other leaders from time to time when it comes to running the government. Other times Vader is given free rein to lead his own tactics. In the end though is answers to the emperor who could easily destroy him.
I also love how the Imperial Navy's Admiral Motti arguing with the Imperial Army's General Tagge closely mimics the WW2 era tug and pull between the Imperial Japanese Navy and the Japanese Army, always odds about the better course of action and vying for permission and funding.
When I got older I realized that Vader has a lot of good one liners. Dark. Yes. And I found myself chuckling at his “ I find your lack of faith disturbing.” To a sassy unbeliever.
Dude is legitimately funny. I like the Clone Wars TV series depiction of Anakin better because the one-liners are consistent with Vader's sense of humor, just obviously a lot lighter in tone. Also in Rogue One Vader gets in some good ones.
My dad has always appreciated his dry wit, and it’s rubbed off on me as well. I love so many of Vader’s iconic quotes with a passion because of how perfectly delivered they are.
According to one novelization, Vader and Tarkin had actually planned ahead of time to establish the proper chain of command by waiting for one of the other other Moffs to say something stupid, have Vader ready to execute him FOR being that stupid, only for Tarkin to call him off. With Tarkin gone, Vader lost the only thing HOLDING HIM BACK.
3:36 -- actually, I find it shows he's capable of killing those simply using the force and exerting how much power he has over that admiral proving how powerful the force is.
That scene is one of my personal favorites too. Not only does Chief Hyne get the nail on the head for what happened, but tells Syril the exact steps to follow to make everyone happy. But because he doesn't and wants justice, he ends up being the one that allows the rest of the show to happen.
@@Cotcan It's also a wonderful flip of the normal rules for cop shows, since normally the lazy older guy who wants to just sweep things under the rug to save the effort of doing their jobs is supposed to be in the wrong, and we're supposed to root for the young idealistic guy who wants to do his job and catch the culprit at any cost, but because the Empire is evil and Preox-Morlana is corrupt, it was in fact the old lazy guy who had the right idea.
Slight correction the "Admiral" you mentioned isn't actually an Admiral he's a General in the Imperial Army. Which adds another layer to this scene as the man he's arguing with is an admiral. This shows a clear rivalry between the army and navy.
Except they got the ranks the wrong way round, IMO. Why would the Admiral say "dangerous to *your* starfleet" to a General? With the emphasis on 'your', doesn't that scan more like a line a General would deliver to and Admiral?
@@95HH Perhaps you're right. To start off, I'm not sure exactly what the context is around these characters. But counterpoint: militaries are not all organized in any rigid or standardized way. Take it from real life: both the US Air Force and Army have all kinds of aircraft. In the context of Star Wars, sure the Army could rely totally on the Navy to deliver and supply the ground forces, but it'd make even more sense for the Army to have its own ships for this purpose (IRL you'll often see the word "organic" to describe this sort of relationship, like "this infantry battalion has organic mortars for indirect fire support"). That's because it's something the Army constantly needs to operate; being part of the same organization will probably make their ships & ground forces work more smoothly together (e.g. they'll train together more frequently). Finally, even if they overlap in equipment, that doesn't mean they use it the same way or with the same purpose. For example the Navy's primary goal could be control of & fighting in space, while the Army has fleets whose purpose is to deploy and support ground forces (and they'll call on the Navy if they need additional space-based support).
In the late 80s as we were writing West End Games, The Imperial Sourcebook for the RPG, we used this scene as a basis for the rivalry between the Imperial Army and Navy -- much like Imperial Japan during World War II. In the Star Wars novelization there is more in this scene as well, I love how Grand Moff Tarkin (my favorite Imperial HERO) is very first described.
That book is awesome. I still have that book on my shelf currently. I had a debate about Andor with a friend who claimed it didn't feel like Star Wars to him. I pulled out my Imp sourcebook and told him it felt the truest to the SW I grew up with.
WOW! Your work on that stuff was foundational, thank you for that. I loved that stuff back when the WEG data was all we had on the internet lol (in like 2004 haha, I'm not 80s vintage)
Another thing is that I believe this is the first instance where the force is shown as real, not just a belief, with Darth Vader force chocking that guy.
I’m pretty sure that’s true. The previous scene just has Obi-Wan’s explanation of the Force as an energy field that binds the galaxy together. He urges Luke to learn the ways of the Force, but there’s no actual showcase of the power he says is given to a Jedi through it. We only see it via Vader, a former Jedi who turned to evil.
@@danielwilliamson6180 Lucas retconned a lot of things, infamously changing Luke and Leia to siblings while making the 3rd movie. The first definitive display of the force as a kinetic power is when Luke pulls his saber out of the snow on Hoth.
I liked to reference this scene (among others) whenever someone would say that the Prequels were boring because they dealt with bureaucracy and politics instead of nonstop cool space battles. Yes, it's been this way since the beginning.
A New Hope is BRILLIANT at world-building. After the first half of the movie we know that: *The senate council of apparently the Empire is basically useless and then removed from power *There is a group of people fighting against the current rulers who call themselves the Resistance *There is a powerful force called The Force *There once was a group of powerful individuals called the Jedi who could use the force and used a weapon called the Lightsaber, but now they are apparently wiped out except for Vader and Ben *Years ago there was a conflict known as the Clone Wars
Worth mentioning the absolute quality of actors in this scene; Peter Cushing (Tarkin being the most imposing character in Star Wars IMHO), Don Henderson, Richard LeParmentier and obviously the combination of Dave Prowse and James Earl Jones bringing Vader to life.
When it comes to visual story telling, Lucas excels. If he doesn't need to spell anything out he doesn't he simply let's the scene tell you what you need. The Moff dismisses the power Vader possesses, Vader demonstrates it's more than s philosophy, it's real, and he can weaponize it.
"Your lack of faith disturbs me" While an overused quote has grown to be my favorite Vader quote, He is quite annoyed and even offended by what the dude says but he doesn't register it beyond commenting on how it "disturbs him" and he then funnels his anger to calmly kill someone, all while not appearing emotional at a surface level
It's funny learning about the rough cut of Star Wars this scene was an information overload, where it was placed before Obi Wan explains the force to Luke & their shared call to action. This scene really was made better in the final edit.
You might be right. But I will add that this particular instance is unique from when he takes out his anger on officers in The Empire Strike Back. In A New Hope, Vader’s attack on Admiral Motti is specifically over an ideological dispute, and not just a short temper.
@@ECHenryNot only that, I think it was the exclamation point to drive home his statement. Since this was our first exposure to Vader, it was not indicative of his capacity for good, but rather just a classic case of evil attacking evil as always happens.
Some other good points in this scene. It informs you that there is an emperor. In ANH, Tarkin is the top commander, but this scene tells you that even he works within a hierarchy of power. Also, this scene shows that Vader exists outside of the Empirial chain of command since he can choke any of them without consequence.
This is a key scene to set up the stakes and explain the conflict. I have often pointed out that Force Awakens lacks such a scene. After all these years I still don't understand why the Resistance and First Order were fighting.
@philosotree5876 knowing they're fighting and why on a simple level "good guys vs. bad guys" is different from knowing "WHY" they're fighting on a deeper level. I think the novel Bloodlines does a great job at setting that up. A New Republic worn down by years of well intentioned but ineffective liberal policy, beginning to look back at The Empire with rose-tinted goggles, "under Palpatine the trains ran on time." For lack of a better current political metaphor, people looking at the First Order and beginning to sympathize with them and say just maybe they'll "Make the Galaxy Great Again" despite their known faults. Leia, once a shining hero of the Rebel Alliance, ostracized after her relationship with Darth Vader is revealed at the same time she tries to mount resistance to the First Order eyeing galactic conquest in a galaxy increasingly willing to welcome them as heroes. It's a solid set up, but it's also stuff that should have been more deeply included in the films and not relegated to one tie-in novel. I think that ties into a) the fear that Lucasfilm had in 2015 that they'd have another Prequel Trilogy backlash if "Star Wars got to political" (Andor proved that wrong) and b) J.J. Abram's own love of mystery boxes and nostalgia for 80's movies (ironically something "Skeleton Crew" can argue does better than Abrams has in his life). I really hate coming back to arguing about the sequels since I have grown so tired of the same arguments in 9 years and the fan resentment, but stuff like "Bloodlines" is a tantalizing glimpse into "what might have been" with the Sequels using the same characters, era and premise to tell a more interesting story.
@@jacoblyman9441 Those double standards are so extreme, it could give Critical Drinker a run for his money. The Originals didn't explain AT ALL why the two sides were fighting. They just said "the empire is evil" without showing what they did to make people form the rebellion. The only evil things we see them do are in response to things the rebellion did. In the force awakens, it's obvious. the first order is trying to kill Luke Skywalker because he's a threat to their attempt to take over the galaxy. The resistance wants to stop them. Simple.
@philosotree5876I don't think that's what this video argues though, the "Imperial board room" tells us the Empire does a lot more evil than what they do to the heroes and on screen, we know they dissolved the last remnant of the Republic, we know they intend to keep systems in line by fear. Then we see them do the evil things to the heroes on top of that, including the Jawa's death, Beru & Owen, and then Alderaan. Yes the Empire is evil but it's got the infrastructure for it, a military industrial complex, a decaying political system, a way to silence defectors, and 20 years to gradually erode the Republic. People ask why Yularen or Legend's Palleon were so loyal to the Empire, but the Empire endeared a sort of patriotism that meant honor-bound men like Yularen would gladly advance it's atrocities in the name of order. Yes the original trilogy doesn't say all that explicitly, but it says enough the rest is a logical extrapolation from it. Yes there's a lot of the "lore" we owe more to West End Games and Timothy Zahn, but there's just enough subtext especially from the board room scene in Star Wars to use as a foundation to build on (and without the clunky Prequels political exposition dumps either). In Episode 7 we do see the First Order hunting Luke Skywalker, slaughtering a village on the way, find out they kidnap children for their army, and then they blow up Hosnian Prime (probably the weakest of their villain tricks since we know nobody personally on Hosnian Prime, I remember a lot of fans at first assuming they blew up Coruscant almost out of an assumption it was a planet we knew; and Hosnian only connected IMHO as an event when Kaz sees it in Star Wars: Resistance assuming his parents were on the planet at the time of the attack). So I will admit we see the First Order act villainous towards other people in the film, but not in a way that endears a resistance other than "bad guy bad." Remove Hosnian Prime from the mix, and the First Order is just a localized thug, the kind of evil that would only inspire the resistance of social media "hopes & prayers" like Kony 2012 did. I almost wish it WAS written as a localized thug and not "Empire 2.0", Leia leading remote freedom fighters with her true believers against a threat the greater New Republic mostly ignores seems more captivating than "somehow Palpatine & the Empire returned" but that's a now long gone what-if scenario. I still don't really understand how the First Order had the resources and control to take over the galaxy after TFA though, especially since that sudden invasion and Hosnian-explosion would have realistically rallied every planetary defense force to join the Resistance much sooner. There is no way the First Order has the manpower to resist every local militia, especially after their threat of Starkiller Base is destroyed and prior to IX's introduction of the Xystan class fleet. That's like saying North Korea took over the world after blowing up Washington D.C. once with a nuke, but they somehow maintained control of the world for a year on an undermanned army despite special forces destroying their further nuclear capability immediately after the loss of D.C. The Empire has a government and localized military to maintain order after the loss of the Death Star, the First Order doesn't. Bloodlines tries to give the best explanation that the New Republic was so politically eroded people may have welcomed the First Order's "order" with open arms (and I dare say the Favereu/Filoni shows are implying the same too) but that's all retroactive continuity that only a few minutes in the Sequel film's could have explained, had it been present in the first place. Kudos to other Star Wars creators like Claudia Gray or Filoni trying to patch the cracks, but it's not a leap in logic to point out that was missing in the films as presented. Unfortunately though the further the idea the franchise suggests "the New Republic was so weak people welcomed the First Order" the more it undermines the Citizen's Fleet and suggests the post Episode IX galaxy will slide into oppression again because a New-New Republic seems woefully unprepared to change public sentiment in a galaxy that believes democracy to be weak.
this was the scene I always tuned out when I was a kid, at least until Vader started to choke the guy. now, it’s my favorite to watch, cause I’m able to understand the politics of the scene
This scene is the reason I have such a problem with Vader's power creep in the Disney age. The scene shows Vader as a man who is viewed as a relic. His glory days were almost 20 years ago, and probably only personally witnessed very few in that room. He's now mostly an intimidating errand boy for the Emperor, more a figurehead than a direct threat. Vader demonstrates that this is not the case, but the man is clearly fighting against obsolescence. The events of Ep 4 reinvigorate both Vader's status and his sense of purpose, and his increasing use of the force throughout the trilogy shows it. He's coming out of retirement in Ep 4, and relishing it. His duel with Kenobi is a protracted tease. He does not want to rush through an event, a lightsaber fight with a true Jedi, that he probably imagined he would never see again. Despite this, he is still cautious. Kenobi has diminished with age, but Vader isn't arrogant enough to dismiss his old master's skill, nor his own lack of practice. By the time he challenges Luke in Ep 5, Vader is back to his full confidence and easily wipes the floor with him, while still enjoying the cat and mouse tease. It is a very organic progression. Counter this with how Vader is portrayed in the Disney era, where he single handedly slaughters a ship full of Rebels in Rogue One (literally hours before entering the Tantive IV only after his stormtroopers cleared the danger), and in the Obi-Wan series where he yanks back an escaping transport ship and peels back its hull like it was cardboard. A Vader with this much power could have simply force squashed Kenobi, Luke, or even the Emperor at any point. It doesn't fit Vader's character arc. Admittedly, I loved the spectacle of the hallway fight from Rogue One, and the Rebels series is brilliant, but it still rankles me a bit.
I think it was sam witwer (don't quote me on that) who said that star wars isn't necessarily a biblical retelling of what happened, it's more of fireside tales. So rogue one is told by the rebel remnants who are scared shitless of a dark force they've only heard terrible stories about and that helps me smooth things over a bit
Those are fair points. Though, do keep in mind: As of Obi-Wan, there are still Jedi around. Few yes, but the Inquisitors are active and still finding the occasional Jedi or former Padawan. Vader is still hunting. Especially his former Master. Even after getting his ass handed to him by Obi-Wan, he's still all in. Until the Emperor calls and tells him to chill the F out. He's been benched And that starts his decline.
@@streakermaximusthe obiwan show is effectively fan fiction. Obiwan never leaves tatooine, Vader isn’t hunting Jedi anymore. The original movie quite clearly depicts Vader as an old samurai who’s glory days are far behind him. Same With obiwan.
Remember Star Wars isn’t 1 interconnected universe, everything handles force and story differently. They also retcon and change things every time. Vader in the main saga is the definitive portrayal. All the cartoons/shows are fan fiction just like comics and games.
I wish there was more writing in Star Wars like this. I love the world building and setting of star wars! It's hard to be enthusiastic for self-referential stuff and constant regurgitation of the same old material. The empire can be an incredibly interesting and compelling antagonist, if only the writers would remember/focus on that.
An element that was unfortunately never sufficiently addressed in the prequels and sequels: The conflict between the technocrats of the Empire and the Sith faction. In the sequels, something like the Empire breaking up into technocrats and Sith could have been established ... etc etc
I think one issue with Sith being one of the factions is that due to the rule of two, both Sith had died near simultaneously and so that continuous line was broken. Of course you could resolve this by having multiple claimants I suppose. You could also have technocrats and old guard of the officer corps be competing factions.
I also want to just call out the excellent performances in the speaking roles in this scene. Richard LeParmentier as Admiral Taggi is the ultimate Imperial crony, sniveling and snarling as he tries to assert his authority well above his station. He's arrogant, power-hungry, and trigger-happy, a bad combo when Darth Vader is in the room. LaParmentier also does (in my opinion) the best performance of being Force Choked. I adore the twitch in his jaw just as Vader latches on, the rising panic in his eyes as he realizes Vader isn't tightening his collar but constricting his trachea directly. After being released, he glares up at Vader with both fear and loathing, trying to figure out whether it's at all possible to get revenge on this powerful antagonist. Through it all, he remains haughty and filled with contempt. Great acting. Don Henderson as Admiral Motti is a voice of caution, bringing up reasonable concerns while still maintaining that the Empire is still powerful enough to overcome any obstacle. I really like the way he throws in the "possible, however unlikely" bit to just acknowledge the merely statistical probability that the Rebels will find a weakness in the Death Star's design. Someone has to be pragmatic, perhaps even cynical, in these kinds of briefings for the Empire to function, and Motti is that someone. He proves this again by asking how the dissolution of the Senate affects governmental processes; the question needs to be asked, and Motti is exactly the kind of toady who needs to know where he stands in the bureaucratic structure. Peter Cushing can't be praised enough for his performance as Grand Moff Tarkin. He perfectly balances poise, power, and pride, the ultimate embodiment of the Imperial Government. He is the only person aside from Ben Kenobi to show zero fear of Vader. Tarkin knows how much power he commands and exactly how and when to use it. He has seen Vader choke out many an underling, and he uses his punishment of Taggi as a teaching moment, ordering his release after a dispassionate stare. Taggi deserves to suffer for his insubordination, Tarkin's look says, but not for too long - we have business to attend. I also appreciate Tarkin's clear pleasure at reporting the abolition of the Senate; he now knows he won't have to wait for Senatorial permission to use his brand-new planet-wrecking toy, and his excitement at the prospect is subtle but detectable. And I don't think I need to waste words on James Earl Jones' incredible Vader voice.
I know this is subjective, but I feel like of all the Star Wars youtubers, no one GETS Star Wars the way EC Henry does. I wish Disney+ would put him in charge of of a show or something.
I think this scene is a good representation of how good A New Hope is. The ability to do so much world building with lines of dialogue is so impressive. All of the actors make it so convincing that their characters exist in this fictional galaxy that all the micro political lines make it feel so much more believable. People like to criticize George's writing, but I think he is a genius at conveying information in such a quick and effective way. This I think is why A New Hope is still the best Star Wars movie.
I mean, I don't think that scene reveals Vader as capable of being redeemed. The reason why Vader is aggravated is because he believes HIS power is the ultimate force in the universe. He chokes him because hes saying that The Empire is stronger than him. So, Annie flexes.
It's easy to forget now with all the other Star Wars material, but the world building of episode 4 was truly fantastic. Rebellion, Empire, Jedi, these were all brand new things to audiences, yet the film set the baseline for what came later.
This scene is an exception. The worldbuilding of the Original Trilogy is dogshit. Lucas did not give much of a damn about how his universe functioned. He literally said "space has air when I want it to." He never explained who supplies the rebels, what the empire had done to provoke the rebels, or how the galaxy as a whole functioned. His stories were all about the journey of the heroes and he left the expanded universe to clean up his incoherent mess.
@philosotree5876 Your confusion is your problem. The movie lays out all significant information. Most Vietnam movies don't explain who's supplying the rebels either. It's not critical information.
@@redrick8900 Not only is that one of the most brain dead comparisons I've ever heard considering VIETNAM IS ACTUAL HISTORY but their level of equipment is nowhere near the level of the Rebel Alliance who HAVE A GODDAMN FLEET.
I love this scene for its storytelling and world-building. I've at least once used it as a template for how to do strategy meetings which set up future events whilst also exposing the reader to the inner-workings, organisation, goals, and concerns of a nation's various military, social, and political entities.
@EC Henry 3:00 I find it interesting that you missed the "**you** have constructed, instead of **we** have. It quickly, barely noticable, creates a separation from him to the rest of the people, making him an even greater outsider to this round.
One other line: “Regional governors will have direct control over their territories.” The use of “territories” in this sense has the air of a Mafia conference where the “family” heads talk about their spheres of operation. SW wasn’t that far off from Godfather 1 and 2, which reacquainted the viewing public with organized crime; so the line reinforces the evil nature of the Empire.
I'm glad you included the scene with Biggs! It's great to be reminded of what a great character he is, swinging in on a rope at the last moment to save the day! Forciness!
I love this analysis. My favorite part of this scene was that Vader never sat down. He seemed so out of place and uncomfortable around the Imperial Leaders.
@ If you want to ascribe his apparent discomfort to suit pain, which was reconned later and unknown to the audience at that point, then there is nothing unique about the briefing scene and the presence of the imperial leadership as per the original comment. The suit pain would be a constant background factor. Vader’s body language did not unequivocally indicate discomfort to me. No needless pacing, squirming, or hunching over. And no strain in his voice. Indeed, he came off powerful, poised, and in control.
@@mikejankowski6321 If that's your interpretation, sure. The best part of the scene is that he does seem different and uncomfortable or out of place in my opinion, not part of the basic hierarchy. Cheers.
One of my favourite scenes from star wars. Got all the voice lines memorized. I was honestly dissapointed by how they continued Tagge's story in Vader comics. I feel like the charachter had huge potential to be a great villain
I love this scene as well, from the Imperial bickering to the comment about the Senate's dissolution, so much worldbuilding done in such a masterfully brief way!
I never considered Vader's confidence in the force in the board room scene is a small sign of his eventual redemption, that's really interesting. There is something about ANH Vader that seems different from the rest, he has the better lines in this film and it makes him come off as more reasonable, which ironically kinda makes him seem scarier. His line about being too proud of the death star is a perfect example.
This entire movie is possibly the pinnacle of both natural exposition and visual storytelling to introduce and explain a completely new and unique world to an audience. And it's not just the script and the editing, it's also how the worldbuilding was designed to be very easily accessible given the amount of complexity.
"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways" indicates that Motti knows who Vader is and why he's there, and resents the Rasputin-like way he's insinuated himself into the power structure. Vader just doesn't show off very often.
I have always LOVED this scene. My primary interest was Vader's force choke and the way he delivers the "Lack of faith disturbing" line. I was always aware there was a lot of information being passed along about the senate, Vader has bosses other than the emperor and so forth but the analysis here is next level. A lot of angles I had never considered before.
The deleted Luke and Biggs scene was forced on George Lucas by the executives who wanted a big exposition dump for the audience. It still became canon via the movie novelization ghost written by Alan Dean Foster and it works very well there because of the difference between the written media where the reader can take their time and absorb this versus a movie that HAS to maintain a pace and be interesting as well as entertaining at the same time.
This was my favourite scene as a kid. The intro to return of the jedi, where Vader has a "chat" with I believe the same imperial officer whom he chokes out in this scene, was another absolute favorite.
well said. well created video. the minute i saw the thumbnail....i think i knew nearly EVERYTHING you were going to say, but never thought of it, myself. you are 100% right: politics, power, faith, exposition, and situation/summary, all in one scene.
I am glad more people are appreciating this scene. It was always one of my favorites. I remember as a kid, instead of finding it boring as most kids might (Well to be fair, when I was 3 or 4 it was, but by around 7 or 8), I found myself wondering about what they were talking about and how much bigger the story was outside the movies (And this was before I was really aware of the EU).
One of the things I've always liked about this scene was the dude in a white uniform in the background. Combined with the fact that there are two different shades of grey uniform and we had scene imperials in storm trooper armor as well as black uniforms, this one dude in white who doesn't even get the camera focused on him or a single second of dialog or dedicated run time and is just in the background helps to establish the Imperial forces as a diverse complex organization with multiple separate service branches and internal factions.
One thing interesting is that this scene was supposed to go in a different location or sequence. It made a lot more sense to have Ben Kenobi talk about the Force, then see Darth Vader talk about the Force.
The main reason this scene works so well is one common to all good exposition scenes. The characters are giving each other information that is necessary for them to share and which they don’t already know. My favourite example of this is Back To The Future. When Doc is explaining the plot of the movie to Marty, it is necessary for him to do so because he needs Marty’s help and Marty does not know any of this already.
An honorable mention has to be said for the Opera scene in the prequels. Much like this scene, it's simply characters conversing. it's extremely lore dense and intriguing from a world building aspect. I know many people consider that the best in the series, simply because it teases us with such a good expansion of what we know.
The editing and shot choices in that scene are extremely well dialed in too. The cut to the two shot from behind where Anakin looks to Palpatine after he mentions "the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise" alone shows Lucas' mastery.
This is the type of scene that you can start with and just build out the rest of the story from. If you told me it was one of the first scenes Lucas wrote I wouldn't be surprised.
…damn this is an excellent analysis of the scene. Also, good call in pointing out the differences between the empire, Vader and even obi wan. It’s showing us on very selective bits what motivates the empire minions and why Vader is different. But also, I really like what the officer says to Vader “don’t scare us with your sorcerer ways lord Vader. Your ancient religion…” this is gives enough to back up obi WAN’s claim that long ago the Jedi were guardians. Whatever happened was enough to make an entire generation or two forget what force users can do, or rather the difference between a Jedi and sith. To this new generation, the empire is all they know and the stories of Jedi/with are legends
Excellent synopsis, as always. Luthen's escape from Imperial custody explains the Imperials' institutionalized hubris and professional closed-mindedness. The captain is an experienced naval officer, not quick to judge, tempered, efficient, and professional. Who is surrounded by two subordinates who believe or have been taught to believe their ship's arsenal and their Imperial authority is all they need to command. Not believing a small vessel of any threat could escape their custody or defy their jurisdiction, only to be stymied when it solely defeats their fighter detachment. After the escape, the captain doesn't wig out like his officers. Instead, he contemplates a reckoning. Instead of giving an over-the-top monologue, he silently pines for vengeance. Not to mention, it looks badass.
Exposition done right. It's not ham fisted or clunky. It has a purpose, flows with the scene given and informs the viewer what is going on while keeping engagement. It's like you were in the conference room itself as the characters talk to each other instead of them talking to the audience directly which breaks the suspension of disbelief.
My favorite quote I've ever heard about this scene is 'imagine telling your cyborg wizard boss that his religion is bullshit in the middle of a conference.'
I love it when people take the time to reflect on how ridiculous star wars is as a concept.
CyberWizard. I like it.
I once watched a USN Captain use the Death Star as an allegory for military procurement. He called Vader the "Deputy Undersecretary for Sith Affairs" and I've never been able to have that leave my head about this scene.
The Robot Chicken skit about it is also hilarious.
The best part is Vader wasn't anyone's actual boss in IV. He was just a really good attack dog for the Empire with some hocus pocus magic powers as far as most cared. Tarkin actually outranked him at the time.
Then ESB happened and Vader was given direct authority by the Emperor, and since nobody really knows the Emperor is ALSO an evil space wizard like Vader, the weirdo space wizard into a dead religion is suddenly killing Admirals with zero reprocussions and hiring bounty hunters all to find this ONE smuggler's YT freighter just so he can give said smuggler to a Hutt for...reasons. Cuz its not like the average Imp knows about the Son of Skywalker thing!
This scene is routinely overlooked by fans who miss the obvious connection between the dissolution of the Senate and Death Star finally becoming operational.
Definitely. The completion of the Death Star is what Palpatine was waiting for to finally dissolve the Senate and abandon even the facade of legislature.
@@danielkorladis7869 I'd imagine that the core worlds had defenses that would just laugh at most Imperial ships. Planetary shields, ion cannons, local fleets, starfighters, etc. The Death Star was meant for them, not outer rim backwaters like Yavin or Hoth.
@@StarryDrukhari Tarkin pretty much implies that when he says "Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration..."
@@StarryDrukhari you might even be able to argue that Palpatine didn’t even need to see the Rebellion as the biggest threat to the Empire. There were three good reasons to use it against them:
1. The Rebellion was the most public threat,
2. The Rebellion needed to be dealt with soon before it got out of control, and
3. They were most likely to be able to use it multiple times, as the Rebellion would likely have multiple cells.
@@CyberDrewan There were likely scattered rebel cells across the galaxy, but I doubt they'd have been able to offer more than local resistance. Yavin was the rebellion’s central hub, where its leadership and resources were concentrated. Destroying it would have decapitated the rebellion, leaving those smaller cells disorganized and unable to mount a coordinated threat.
This explains why Vader was so confident that "this will be a day long remembered." Without the base at Yavin IV, the rebellion would have been essentially ended.
I agree. Tells you so much without being unnatural. The way Vader says "I find your lack of faith disturbing" is full of malice. The fact that it's delivered so quietly is genius line reading.
It's also dripping with sarcasm, something Anakin would later (from an irl perspective) would be known for
That line is so wonderfully iconic. James Earl Jones really was on another level, god rest his soul. I also love his semi-sarcastic “as you wish” when Tarkin tells him to release Motti. It’s almost as if he’s saying “Alright alright, I’ll acquiesce. I’ve had my fun and made my point.”
If only George took this to the prequels
That isn't sarcasm. That's literally how Vader feels about it.
@@redrick8900 Nobody's saying "I find your lack of faith" is sarcastic. It's "As you wish" that is sarcastic.
I need more Imperial bureaucracy scenes
Then I hope you watched Andor, it has some of the very best. And I'm not joking.
It would be cool. Give us more context on why some people like Dodonna defected.
Give me a scene about the death star going over budget while being behind schedule!
I'll watch andor tonight@@Molly-ey6lq
Watch Andor
"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
That is the best line delivery in all of Star Wars.
I say it's "Bring my shuttle," provided you're watching the correct version of TESB.
I hate sand...
“The emperor is not as forgiving as I am.”
@gerardoarellano7698 And there's the second best.
@@Tar-Numendil Proof that Vader’s got a sense of humor, too!
The best thing about "Empire Strikes Back" is that they took Vader, essentially a very good henchman villain, and made him into a very smart and cunning villain always thinking two steps ahead, even though throughout most of the film he seems to be one step behind. It also showed Vader was willing to sacrifice anything to get what he wanted.
I feel that the OT missed an opportunity to emphasize that Vader was "going off the reservation" in TESB, diverting Imperial resources to an increasingly personal quest. There's a tiny bit of it in his Skype with the Emperor, where he's pushed to make a case for capturing Luke instead of killing him, but imagine if he was getting himself into some deep doodoo with that gambit.
I disagree with your statement about Vader in ANH. When first watching, I got the impression that he had as much political power as Tarkin, just that his authority's jurisdiction was not the Death Star. And that he may have final say on the Death Star, but he has to and chooses to respect Vader because of his competence and capabilities. The same goes for Vader. I got the impression that if he wanted to, Vader could give Tarkin a hard time, and Tarkin would have to have a good reason as to why he has to tell Vader ''no''. There is mutual respect between them, and in the movie are both working to the same goal.
Yeah, it was a big shift to put Vader in a position above the military instead of just outside it, and the Emperor scene complements it
Vader showed his power by having the ability to FORCE CHOKE an ADMIRAL in front of all the others and suffer no consequences which means they were intimidated by him.
That is part of why I see The Empire Strikes Back as the best Star Wars film.
There is also the part where the Moff tells Vader to stand down and he does showing that even Vader is outranked or at least partially beholden to others of Rank and distinction.
Notable also is the visual symbolism. Tarkin isn't visually distinct from the other Imperial officers, and so serves as a stand-in for the Imperial system as a whole. And in being able to command Vader, shows that ultimately even he is beholden to the Imperial system.
But the _Way_ Vader complies (sarcastically/casually saying “as you wish”) hints that even tho the Moffs/Empire technically outrank him, he’s only playing along until he deems it no longer necessary.
@@UGNAvalon I don't think it's quite correct to say that Tarkin outranks Vader; Vader exists outside of and above any military chain of command. But Tarkin is in command of the Death Star and its mission, and obviously has the support of the Emperor to be there, and *needs* authority over his subordinates, so Vader won't undermine him without a good reason. But I don't doubt that Vader could have pulled rank if he truly felt the need.
I always read it as showing that Tarkin and/or the Emperor had something on Vader that compelled his cooperation, and it wasn't about the Force at all. Tarkin's later line, "You, my friend, are all that remains of their religion" supports this. Whether this means that the Emperor's Force ability is unknown to the rank and file (or hadn't yet been written into his character in 1977) is an exercise for the viewer.
Yes. Leia mentions not being surprised to see Tarkin holding Vader's leash in another scene. Vader in his original appearance was very much Tarkin's 'enforcer' and limited in what he could do. I think it's a little unfortunate that later media tends to look at his actions in ESB and RoTJ when he's fully 'off the leash' and going full attack mode on the rebels and killing Imperial officers willy-nilly and expand that behavior to the entirety of his 20+ year career and have him killing Imperial officers with impunity and wielding effectively unchecked power in the Empire to do whatever he wants prior to the battle of Endor. A little bit of flanderization of the character IMO that undercuts the narrative significance of him being unleashed with broad authority by the Emperor with the purpose of stamping out the rebels with extreme prejudice. It marked a turn of strategy by the Empire that we saw Tarkin's brute in charge of pushing the war effort instead of another strategist/governor type in charge.
"So imagine Colin Powell is getting ready to invade Iraq, and for some reason he has this monk hanging around him. No one really knows why this monk is hanging around, but he's Cheney's right hand man, and has some mysterious history with him so has to be treated respectfully. While the Joint Chiefs Of Staff are discussing invasion plans, the monk says "all your weapons of war are insignificant compared to shaolin kung fu" So general Petraues is like "ok, MR Miyagi, but grownups are talking"
And then the monk hadoukens him.
That's what happens in that scene “
(Only Vader had been around for a while so it doesn't quite map)
Only if the monk was previously a general and was designated a Lord by the King of America.
“Imagine if Rasputin actually had telekinesis, and then how that would impact the First World War.”
@@ADavidJohnson Bur Rasputin was against the war.
I think it's more on line of Starship Troopers on
"why do we need Knife in a war. . .
Put your hand up there. (Use a throwing knife to pierce the Hand).
That's why we need to know how to use a knife! Medic!"
@@0predaking0 I hate that scene. Verhoeven took a scene about the instructor explaining the importance of a proportionate response and instead made him brutalise a recruit for asking a question. Verhoeven couldn't have misrepresented Heinlein's work more if he tried.
What I like about this scene is how the Empire is revealed to not be a monolithic entity - there are factions, and they don't all get along. You have Vader, whom we've seen in action already, but here we find out that he had one very specific job (find the rebel base) and that he's failed at that so far; as a result his colleagues don't respect him. We have Overconfident Admiral (Motti) who is absolutely convinced that the Death Star is the be all end all of imperial power. Opposing him is Cautious General (Tagge) who urges everyone to not underestimate the rebels, and to put more stock in traditional methods rather than crazy new superweapons. The argument between Motti and Tagge really shows that not only is the Empire overconfident, but it is quarrelling about how overconfident they are. Finally you have Tarkin, who somehow manages to agree with everyone: yes, Vader is as yet unsuccessful but he'll keep trying; yes, the Death Star represents a new era of imperial power, and yes, we will deal with the rebellion.
Up to that point Tarkin was the most effective out of all of them, including Vader, who was really just Palpatine’s blunt force servant while he was still coming to grips with the dark side. But even Tarkin fell to his own hubris, refusing to evacuate the Death Star when he most truly believed all these things were coming together.
Its common for dictators to encourage factionalism and competition and skulduggery among their lieutenants. Adolph for example had a convoluted labyrinth of agencies competing with one another for his affection. SA. SD. ss. Gestapo. Leibstandarte. Wermacht... on and on. This was intentional
Palpatine Cleary wants competition between and among military and vader
@@rarewhiteapewe should have gotten a “somehow Tarkin returned”.
There's also clear parallels between the Empire and Nazi Germany in this scene (and not the obvious ones). Hitler had a fixation on wonder weapons; The Bismark, the Gustav Gun, the Mouse Tank, etc, etc, but much like the Death Star, giant, super powerful weapons are expensive, slow to use, and ultimately very difficult to protect *because* they draw attention, and that's even if they actually get off the ground. The Gustav Gun in particular was destroyed by a small group of commandos with a small thermite charge which they used to slice a big hole in the barrel - pretty much the story of ANH
@@nickkerber1145 This is not actually true, although I agree that the empire was clearly influenced by GDR (Großdeutsches Reich), it actually deviates from the stereotypical impression of the actual course of war history. Apart from the final days of despair and madness, Hitler was not so obsessed with so-called 'miracle/revenge weapons'.
Among the few things you mentioned, only the last one is strange and crazy. The Bismarck class battleships were part of the German Navy's Atlantic strategy at that time, and they knew they did not have enough strength to confront RN. Its purpose, along with other battlecruisers, was to attack maritime transport and serve as a conspicuous target to restrain enemy forces.
When the Gustav artillery system was first designed, the war dominated by the fast armored forces known to later generations was not so credible. It was a product of World War I thinking and was initially built to break the Maginot Line (but Guderian/Manstein provided a better method, and Hitler decisively adopted it), and later used to deal with Sevastopol. It proved to perform very well in its own design purpose.
"... Or given you clairvoyance enough to the find the rebel's hidden fortress." A nod to the 1958 film that was the inspiration behind A New Hope and it's plot.
And that he chokes him before he finishes, as if to say, "shut up, don't give it away!" 😂
Oh wow, can’t believe I never caught that!
Hmm, would like to see this channel tackle Akira Kurosawa's classics, plus contemporary films like Samurai Story, when it comes to Star Wars connections.
“You’re devotion to that ancient religion hasn’t given you the clairvoyance to turn a profit on that condo in Glendale”
@@willhennessy864 He chokes him and says, "Shut up and eat your popcorn!"
This particular scene also reminds me of a similar scene in the first Jurassic Park where the cast sit down to discuss their views on what they have seen. Its short but sets up so many important elements. You see similar scenes in Star Trek too. Honestly feels like these 'table scenes' have disappeared
In the original German dub of this scene, Tarkin called the Emperor the "Kaiser". As in: The Monarchical Caesar of an Empire. You instantly imagine a crown, a throne, a royal court. It paints a wholly different world, more akin to the Dune universe, rather than the scheming politician we actually got in Palpatine. That's such a neat little anachronism and it shows how every single word in this scene was fundamental to the world of Star Wars. Change one sentence about Vader's use of the force or the rebellion and we'd have gotten a totally different Star Wars universe. Great stuff.
Only room for one glorious Space Kaiser (who honestly feels more like "what if Anakin was born in a world run by the sith"
Isn't Kaiser and Emperor synonymous? Ceasar was a emperor after all
@@Yurt_enthusiast7 Technically yes, but in practice no
tbf, at that stage the lore about Emporer was completly different, like Palpatine didn't exist and the Emporer was someone that got corrupted by the Imperial Court, the whole Sith Lord came with ESB with the weird Woman with Pavian Eyes and the whole Sith Force User came with ROTS.
@@enisra_bowman The full cut of this scene does show that the sith elements were present as an aspect of the empire from the get go, going as far as to refer to them by name
In the writing world, this is the power of a "Briefing Scene." Some can condemn the concept of having briefings as an exposition dump or be possibly boring (especially when it isn't done right). However, in any type of widescale war epic, having a briefing scene is not only important, it's almost required as it lays the entire framework for the story. One of the things you notice that Star Wars did so well (especially in the original trilogy) is having briefings. New Hope and Return of the Jedi both did this to excellent effect.
However, you will also notice that future SW movies tend to neglect this concept. The Last Jedi, for example, had multiple issues, including the lack of proper briefing scenes for the audience. For example, an emergency briefing can be discussed where the Resistance pilots are discussing what to do with the First Order closing in on the base, have the bomber pilots complain that their bombers had no shields and that they were sitting ducks for the First Order, that the resistance was poorly equipped and was using what they had, and other things that would make the events transpire more smoothly for the audience. If anything, the audience wouldn't just understand but feel more sympathy for many of the pilots who willingly gave their lives in hopes of a greater cause.
Dang, who knew a simple “expo dump”-type scene would’ve made such a terrible battle more palatable? 😧 And all bc the in-universe characters voice(/foreshadow) the same thoughts that the audience would have.
Fans of the X-Wing games, FreeSpace, Ace Combat, and Project Wingman can easily concur.
This is like one of the "only" examples in films where "show don't tell" would easily have been better if they didn't show and would actually tell the audience beforehand about the upcoming battle!
The Last Jedi? First Order? Never heard of these things.
You don’t need expiation for simple shit. SW fans are brain dead , it makes complete sense for the rebels to use the bombers. Poe has them go and be used for something they aren’t great at so heavy casualties occur.
I rewatched A New Hope a week ago and something made this scene stand out to me more than it usually did
With the articles talking about Andor season 2 showcasing Krennic trying to obtain funding for the Deathstar I'm hoping we get more scenes showcasing the innerworkings of the empire
I think about this scene all the time. So much worldbuilding and storytelling at once. Not to mention all the lines are dope as hell and delivered brilliantly.
"I find your lack of faith disturbing." -- favorite line to use during office meetings
Excellent analysis, EC Henry. That IS a great two minutes that does a lot to set up facts while feeling completely natural. In The Last Jedi, when it's revealed that Luke had been fooling everyone in that way, I immediately thought of Vader's line here: "The ability to destroy a planet is nothing compared to the power of the Force." Ah, so THIS is the kind of feat he was talking about!
With Admiral Motti being choked, I'd also draw a parallel to the scene in the 5th Element where Zorg is choking on the cherry--all the power and wealth, but can it solve your current problem?
I absolutely love the scene. A bunch of governors discussing government affairs then a dark wizard walks in the room professing his religion and demonstrating it's power.😆 This sums up Star Wars in many ways for me.
It also shows directly just how high ranking Tarkin is, in his command over Vader. The latter has been previously shown to be near unstoppable and is visually extremely intimidating. Tarkin is visually not visually distinct from the other imperial military officials present (aside from being played by Peter Cushing) and so serves as a stand-in for the entire apparatus of the Empire. Vader is just one dude, as is even the Emperor. Tarkin stands for all those who make the Emperor's rule possible by enforcing it.
By being able to order Vader around, he shows that the true monster is actually the fascist Imperial system.
He’s really not above Vader.
I was told they are on different chains of command. Vader reports directly to the emperor and as such is sometimes ordered to fall under the direct command of other leaders from time to time when it comes to running the government. Other times Vader is given free rein to lead his own tactics. In the end though is answers to the emperor who could easily destroy him.
'visually not visually distinct'
I also love how the Imperial Navy's Admiral Motti arguing with the Imperial Army's General Tagge closely mimics the WW2 era tug and pull between the Imperial Japanese Navy and the Japanese Army, always odds about the better course of action and vying for permission and funding.
I like how it sets up the Death Star as both this terrifying super-threat, yet for as powerful as it is, it is equally as vulnerable.
And this is easily one of the best Star Wars RUclipsrs on the platform… just thought I should add this lol!
AND Star Trek as well. : )
When I got older I realized that Vader has a lot of good one liners. Dark. Yes. And I found myself chuckling at his “ I find your lack of faith disturbing.” To a sassy unbeliever.
He's very much on point with snappy rhetoric and retorts throughout the trilogy. He can corner you in your mind and as a physical threat.
Dude is legitimately funny. I like the Clone Wars TV series depiction of Anakin better because the one-liners are consistent with Vader's sense of humor, just obviously a lot lighter in tone. Also in Rogue One Vader gets in some good ones.
My dad has always appreciated his dry wit, and it’s rubbed off on me as well. I love so many of Vader’s iconic quotes with a passion because of how perfectly delivered they are.
"I Sithed my pants."
"I made a Darth doodie."
-
Wait, wrong version of the movie.
Search your feelings
According to one novelization, Vader and Tarkin had actually planned ahead of time to establish the proper chain of command by waiting for one of the other other Moffs to say something stupid, have Vader ready to execute him FOR being that stupid, only for Tarkin to call him off.
With Tarkin gone, Vader lost the only thing HOLDING HIM BACK.
3:36 -- actually, I find it shows he's capable of killing those simply using the force and exerting how much power he has over that admiral proving how powerful the force is.
The Andor scene with Chief Inspector Hyne was similarly dense with information, and is one of my favorite scenes in the whole franchise.
That scene is one of my personal favorites too. Not only does Chief Hyne get the nail on the head for what happened, but tells Syril the exact steps to follow to make everyone happy. But because he doesn't and wants justice, he ends up being the one that allows the rest of the show to happen.
@@Cotcan It's also a wonderful flip of the normal rules for cop shows, since normally the lazy older guy who wants to just sweep things under the rug to save the effort of doing their jobs is supposed to be in the wrong, and we're supposed to root for the young idealistic guy who wants to do his job and catch the culprit at any cost, but because the Empire is evil and Preox-Morlana is corrupt, it was in fact the old lazy guy who had the right idea.
Slight correction the "Admiral" you mentioned isn't actually an Admiral he's a General in the Imperial Army. Which adds another layer to this scene as the man he's arguing with is an admiral. This shows a clear rivalry between the army and navy.
Indeed. Supplementary material only enhances the scene not convolute it in retrospect. As ancillary material should.
Except they got the ranks the wrong way round, IMO. Why would the Admiral say "dangerous to *your* starfleet" to a General? With the emphasis on 'your', doesn't that scan more like a line a General would deliver to and Admiral?
@@95HH Perhaps you're right. To start off, I'm not sure exactly what the context is around these characters. But counterpoint: militaries are not all organized in any rigid or standardized way. Take it from real life: both the US Air Force and Army have all kinds of aircraft.
In the context of Star Wars, sure the Army could rely totally on the Navy to deliver and supply the ground forces, but it'd make even more sense for the Army to have its own ships for this purpose (IRL you'll often see the word "organic" to describe this sort of relationship, like "this infantry battalion has organic mortars for indirect fire support"). That's because it's something the Army constantly needs to operate; being part of the same organization will probably make their ships & ground forces work more smoothly together (e.g. they'll train together more frequently). Finally, even if they overlap in equipment, that doesn't mean they use it the same way or with the same purpose. For example the Navy's primary goal could be control of & fighting in space, while the Army has fleets whose purpose is to deploy and support ground forces (and they'll call on the Navy if they need additional space-based support).
Do they have annual football games?
Incorrect. Motti is an Admiral.
In the late 80s as we were writing West End Games, The Imperial Sourcebook for the RPG, we used this scene as a basis for the rivalry between the Imperial Army and Navy -- much like Imperial Japan during World War II. In the Star Wars novelization there is more in this scene as well, I love how Grand Moff Tarkin (my favorite Imperial HERO) is very first described.
That book is awesome. I still have that book on my shelf currently. I had a debate about Andor with a friend who claimed it didn't feel like Star Wars to him. I pulled out my Imp sourcebook and told him it felt the truest to the SW I grew up with.
@ HIGH PRAISE! For both the sourcebook and the series! The Star Wars Sourcebooks inspired both Timothy Zhan and Kevin Feige as well.
WOW! Your work on that stuff was foundational, thank you for that. I loved that stuff back when the WEG data was all we had on the internet lol (in like 2004 haha, I'm not 80s vintage)
It definitely shows that the Imperial system encourages a lot of power struggles and self-serving politicking in the upper echelons.
@@Alexus1138 take a look at The Star Wars Technical Commentaries, lot of great stuff there as well.
Another thing is that I believe this is the first instance where the force is shown as real, not just a belief, with Darth Vader force chocking that guy.
Vader choked him cos he was being disrespectful.
I’m pretty sure that’s true. The previous scene just has Obi-Wan’s explanation of the Force as an energy field that binds the galaxy together. He urges Luke to learn the ways of the Force, but there’s no actual showcase of the power he says is given to a Jedi through it. We only see it via Vader, a former Jedi who turned to evil.
Is he actually chocking him or is he just making him _believe_ he's being chocked...
@@korakys He's using The Force to choke him. He is choking.
@@danielwilliamson6180 Lucas retconned a lot of things, infamously changing Luke and Leia to siblings while making the 3rd movie. The first definitive display of the force as a kinetic power is when Luke pulls his saber out of the snow on Hoth.
I liked to reference this scene (among others) whenever someone would say that the Prequels were boring because they dealt with bureaucracy and politics instead of nonstop cool space battles. Yes, it's been this way since the beginning.
A New Hope is BRILLIANT at world-building. After the first half of the movie we know that:
*The senate council of apparently the Empire is basically useless and then removed from power
*There is a group of people fighting against the current rulers who call themselves the Resistance
*There is a powerful force called The Force
*There once was a group of powerful individuals called the Jedi who could use the force and used a weapon called the Lightsaber, but now they are apparently wiped out except for Vader and Ben
*Years ago there was a conflict known as the Clone Wars
Worth mentioning the absolute quality of actors in this scene; Peter Cushing (Tarkin being the most imposing character in Star Wars IMHO), Don Henderson, Richard LeParmentier and obviously the combination of Dave Prowse and James Earl Jones bringing Vader to life.
It's always a good day when EC Henry drops
I was actually wondering when I'd see another video from you again and then you drop this. Great video.
Didn't even realize there was a hard line wipe; I thought they were all the same blurry types
When it comes to visual story telling, Lucas excels. If he doesn't need to spell anything out he doesn't he simply let's the scene tell you what you need.
The Moff dismisses the power Vader possesses, Vader demonstrates it's more than s philosophy, it's real, and he can weaponize it.
"Your lack of faith disturbs me"
While an overused quote has grown to be my favorite Vader quote,
He is quite annoyed and even offended by what the dude says but he doesn't register it beyond commenting on how it "disturbs him" and he then funnels his anger to calmly kill someone, all while not appearing emotional at a surface level
It's scenes like this and in Star Trek, the 'conference' scenes that made me love dialogue.I'm a writer now, and dialogue is everything for me.
It's funny learning about the rough cut of Star Wars this scene was an information overload, where it was placed before Obi Wan explains the force to Luke & their shared call to action. This scene really was made better in the final edit.
Marcia Lucas deserves a lot of credit.
@danielkorladis7869 True, though george and 3 other guys were also working on thr edit.
Muh SaVEd iN thE eDIt
@MrJacksspleen the edit was great, but acting like it was done in spite of George rather than with his active participation is absurd.
@@danielkorladis7869 Marcia had nothing to do with this scene being moved.
4:08 I love how in the German dub he says "Kaiser" instead of Imperator in this Scene. That was an one and only shot in all of Star Wars.
The bit on Vader showing him to be good feels like an over analysis of him just getting irritated, but the rest was very interesting.
You might be right. But I will add that this particular instance is unique from when he takes out his anger on officers in The Empire Strike Back. In A New Hope, Vader’s attack on Admiral Motti is specifically over an ideological dispute, and not just a short temper.
@@ECHenryNot only that, I think it was the exclamation point to drive home his statement. Since this was our first exposure to Vader, it was not indicative of his capacity for good, but rather just a classic case of evil attacking evil as always happens.
Some other good points in this scene. It informs you that there is an emperor. In ANH, Tarkin is the top commander, but this scene tells you that even he works within a hierarchy of power. Also, this scene shows that Vader exists outside of the Empirial chain of command since he can choke any of them without consequence.
Not to mention how Vader's quote about technological terrors being no match for the power of the Force foreshadows the Death Star's destruction.
This is a key scene to set up the stakes and explain the conflict. I have often pointed out that Force Awakens lacks such a scene. After all these years I still don't understand why the Resistance and First Order were fighting.
Are you kidding me? If you don't know why they're fighting you must actively be trying not too.
@philosotree5876 knowing they're fighting and why on a simple level "good guys vs. bad guys" is different from knowing "WHY" they're fighting on a deeper level.
I think the novel Bloodlines does a great job at setting that up. A New Republic worn down by years of well intentioned but ineffective liberal policy, beginning to look back at The Empire with rose-tinted goggles, "under Palpatine the trains ran on time." For lack of a better current political metaphor, people looking at the First Order and beginning to sympathize with them and say just maybe they'll "Make the Galaxy Great Again" despite their known faults. Leia, once a shining hero of the Rebel Alliance, ostracized after her relationship with Darth Vader is revealed at the same time she tries to mount resistance to the First Order eyeing galactic conquest in a galaxy increasingly willing to welcome them as heroes.
It's a solid set up, but it's also stuff that should have been more deeply included in the films and not relegated to one tie-in novel. I think that ties into a) the fear that Lucasfilm had in 2015 that they'd have another Prequel Trilogy backlash if "Star Wars got to political" (Andor proved that wrong) and b) J.J. Abram's own love of mystery boxes and nostalgia for 80's movies (ironically something "Skeleton Crew" can argue does better than Abrams has in his life). I really hate coming back to arguing about the sequels since I have grown so tired of the same arguments in 9 years and the fan resentment, but stuff like "Bloodlines" is a tantalizing glimpse into "what might have been" with the Sequels using the same characters, era and premise to tell a more interesting story.
@@jacoblyman9441 Those double standards are so extreme, it could give Critical Drinker a run for his money. The Originals didn't explain AT ALL why the two sides were fighting. They just said "the empire is evil" without showing what they did to make people form the rebellion. The only evil things we see them do are in response to things the rebellion did. In the force awakens, it's obvious. the first order is trying to kill Luke Skywalker because he's a threat to their attempt to take over the galaxy. The resistance wants to stop them. Simple.
@philosotree5876I don't think that's what this video argues though, the "Imperial board room" tells us the Empire does a lot more evil than what they do to the heroes and on screen, we know they dissolved the last remnant of the Republic, we know they intend to keep systems in line by fear. Then we see them do the evil things to the heroes on top of that, including the Jawa's death, Beru & Owen, and then Alderaan. Yes the Empire is evil but it's got the infrastructure for it, a military industrial complex, a decaying political system, a way to silence defectors, and 20 years to gradually erode the Republic. People ask why Yularen or Legend's Palleon were so loyal to the Empire, but the Empire endeared a sort of patriotism that meant honor-bound men like Yularen would gladly advance it's atrocities in the name of order.
Yes the original trilogy doesn't say all that explicitly, but it says enough the rest is a logical extrapolation from it. Yes there's a lot of the "lore" we owe more to West End Games and Timothy Zahn, but there's just enough subtext especially from the board room scene in Star Wars to use as a foundation to build on (and without the clunky Prequels political exposition dumps either).
In Episode 7 we do see the First Order hunting Luke Skywalker, slaughtering a village on the way, find out they kidnap children for their army, and then they blow up Hosnian Prime (probably the weakest of their villain tricks since we know nobody personally on Hosnian Prime, I remember a lot of fans at first assuming they blew up Coruscant almost out of an assumption it was a planet we knew; and Hosnian only connected IMHO as an event when Kaz sees it in Star Wars: Resistance assuming his parents were on the planet at the time of the attack). So I will admit we see the First Order act villainous towards other people in the film, but not in a way that endears a resistance other than "bad guy bad." Remove Hosnian Prime from the mix, and the First Order is just a localized thug, the kind of evil that would only inspire the resistance of social media "hopes & prayers" like Kony 2012 did. I almost wish it WAS written as a localized thug and not "Empire 2.0", Leia leading remote freedom fighters with her true believers against a threat the greater New Republic mostly ignores seems more captivating than "somehow Palpatine & the Empire returned" but that's a now long gone what-if scenario. I still don't really understand how the First Order had the resources and control to take over the galaxy after TFA though, especially since that sudden invasion and Hosnian-explosion would have realistically rallied every planetary defense force to join the Resistance much sooner. There is no way the First Order has the manpower to resist every local militia, especially after their threat of Starkiller Base is destroyed and prior to IX's introduction of the Xystan class fleet. That's like saying North Korea took over the world after blowing up Washington D.C. once with a nuke, but they somehow maintained control of the world for a year on an undermanned army despite special forces destroying their further nuclear capability immediately after the loss of D.C. The Empire has a government and localized military to maintain order after the loss of the Death Star, the First Order doesn't.
Bloodlines tries to give the best explanation that the New Republic was so politically eroded people may have welcomed the First Order's "order" with open arms (and I dare say the Favereu/Filoni shows are implying the same too) but that's all retroactive continuity that only a few minutes in the Sequel film's could have explained, had it been present in the first place. Kudos to other Star Wars creators like Claudia Gray or Filoni trying to patch the cracks, but it's not a leap in logic to point out that was missing in the films as presented. Unfortunately though the further the idea the franchise suggests "the New Republic was so weak people welcomed the First Order" the more it undermines the Citizen's Fleet and suggests the post Episode IX galaxy will slide into oppression again because a New-New Republic seems woefully unprepared to change public sentiment in a galaxy that believes democracy to be weak.
@philosotree5876 What the terms of the battle are. How they're organizing the fight.
"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
It's so good!
This is exactly why I chose this scene for to help my sister practice her acting dialogue
this was the scene I always tuned out when I was a kid, at least until Vader started to choke the guy.
now, it’s my favorite to watch, cause I’m able to understand the politics of the scene
This scene is the reason I have such a problem with Vader's power creep in the Disney age. The scene shows Vader as a man who is viewed as a relic. His glory days were almost 20 years ago, and probably only personally witnessed very few in that room. He's now mostly an intimidating errand boy for the Emperor, more a figurehead than a direct threat. Vader demonstrates that this is not the case, but the man is clearly fighting against obsolescence. The events of Ep 4 reinvigorate both Vader's status and his sense of purpose, and his increasing use of the force throughout the trilogy shows it. He's coming out of retirement in Ep 4, and relishing it. His duel with Kenobi is a protracted tease. He does not want to rush through an event, a lightsaber fight with a true Jedi, that he probably imagined he would never see again. Despite this, he is still cautious. Kenobi has diminished with age, but Vader isn't arrogant enough to dismiss his old master's skill, nor his own lack of practice. By the time he challenges Luke in Ep 5, Vader is back to his full confidence and easily wipes the floor with him, while still enjoying the cat and mouse tease. It is a very organic progression.
Counter this with how Vader is portrayed in the Disney era, where he single handedly slaughters a ship full of Rebels in Rogue One (literally hours before entering the Tantive IV only after his stormtroopers cleared the danger), and in the Obi-Wan series where he yanks back an escaping transport ship and peels back its hull like it was cardboard. A Vader with this much power could have simply force squashed Kenobi, Luke, or even the Emperor at any point. It doesn't fit Vader's character arc.
Admittedly, I loved the spectacle of the hallway fight from Rogue One, and the Rebels series is brilliant, but it still rankles me a bit.
I think it was sam witwer (don't quote me on that) who said that star wars isn't necessarily a biblical retelling of what happened, it's more of fireside tales. So rogue one is told by the rebel remnants who are scared shitless of a dark force they've only heard terrible stories about and that helps me smooth things over a bit
Those are fair points. Though, do keep in mind:
As of Obi-Wan, there are still Jedi around. Few yes, but the Inquisitors are active and still finding the occasional Jedi or former Padawan. Vader is still hunting. Especially his former Master. Even after getting his ass handed to him by Obi-Wan, he's still all in. Until the Emperor calls and tells him to chill the F out. He's been benched And that starts his decline.
@@streakermaximusthe obiwan show is effectively fan fiction. Obiwan never leaves tatooine, Vader isn’t hunting Jedi anymore. The original movie quite clearly depicts Vader as an old samurai who’s glory days are far behind him. Same With obiwan.
Remember Star Wars isn’t 1 interconnected universe, everything handles force and story differently. They also retcon and change things every time. Vader in the main saga is the definitive portrayal. All the cartoons/shows are fan fiction just like comics and games.
I wish there was more writing in Star Wars like this.
I love the world building and setting of star wars!
It's hard to be enthusiastic for self-referential stuff and constant regurgitation of the same old material.
The empire can be an incredibly interesting and compelling antagonist, if only the writers would remember/focus on that.
“I wish there was more writing in Star Wars like this”
You should check out the Expanded Universe. It’s full of cool worldbuilding like this
An element that was unfortunately never sufficiently addressed in the prequels and sequels:
The conflict between the technocrats of the Empire and the Sith faction. In the sequels, something like the Empire breaking up into technocrats and Sith could have been established ... etc etc
I think one issue with Sith being one of the factions is that due to the rule of two, both Sith had died near simultaneously and so that continuous line was broken. Of course you could resolve this by having multiple claimants I suppose. You could also have technocrats and old guard of the officer corps be competing factions.
To be fair, it never really came up again in the Originals either.
I also want to just call out the excellent performances in the speaking roles in this scene.
Richard LeParmentier as Admiral Taggi is the ultimate Imperial crony, sniveling and snarling as he tries to assert his authority well above his station. He's arrogant, power-hungry, and trigger-happy, a bad combo when Darth Vader is in the room. LaParmentier also does (in my opinion) the best performance of being Force Choked. I adore the twitch in his jaw just as Vader latches on, the rising panic in his eyes as he realizes Vader isn't tightening his collar but constricting his trachea directly. After being released, he glares up at Vader with both fear and loathing, trying to figure out whether it's at all possible to get revenge on this powerful antagonist. Through it all, he remains haughty and filled with contempt. Great acting.
Don Henderson as Admiral Motti is a voice of caution, bringing up reasonable concerns while still maintaining that the Empire is still powerful enough to overcome any obstacle. I really like the way he throws in the "possible, however unlikely" bit to just acknowledge the merely statistical probability that the Rebels will find a weakness in the Death Star's design. Someone has to be pragmatic, perhaps even cynical, in these kinds of briefings for the Empire to function, and Motti is that someone. He proves this again by asking how the dissolution of the Senate affects governmental processes; the question needs to be asked, and Motti is exactly the kind of toady who needs to know where he stands in the bureaucratic structure.
Peter Cushing can't be praised enough for his performance as Grand Moff Tarkin. He perfectly balances poise, power, and pride, the ultimate embodiment of the Imperial Government. He is the only person aside from Ben Kenobi to show zero fear of Vader. Tarkin knows how much power he commands and exactly how and when to use it. He has seen Vader choke out many an underling, and he uses his punishment of Taggi as a teaching moment, ordering his release after a dispassionate stare. Taggi deserves to suffer for his insubordination, Tarkin's look says, but not for too long - we have business to attend. I also appreciate Tarkin's clear pleasure at reporting the abolition of the Senate; he now knows he won't have to wait for Senatorial permission to use his brand-new planet-wrecking toy, and his excitement at the prospect is subtle but detectable.
And I don't think I need to waste words on James Earl Jones' incredible Vader voice.
A More Civilized Age podcast agrees, according to last weeks pod. Love your vids man
I know this is subjective, but I feel like of all the Star Wars youtubers, no one GETS Star Wars the way EC Henry does. I wish Disney+ would put him in charge of of a show or something.
I completely agree. I love the scenes from andor that do similar stuff and one of the biggest problems from the sequels was lack of such scenes.
I love the efficiency of Episode 4, but dives like this make me love it even more.
I think this scene is a good representation of how good A New Hope is. The ability to do so much world building with lines of dialogue is so impressive. All of the actors make it so convincing that their characters exist in this fictional galaxy that all the micro political lines make it feel so much more believable. People like to criticize George's writing, but I think he is a genius at conveying information in such a quick and effective way. This I think is why A New Hope is still the best Star Wars movie.
Love an EC Henry video just before Christmas 🎄
Adding the deleted parts of the conference scene adds a lot more context too
I mean, I don't think that scene reveals Vader as capable of being redeemed. The reason why Vader is aggravated is because he believes HIS power is the ultimate force in the universe. He chokes him because hes saying that The Empire is stronger than him. So, Annie flexes.
It's easy to forget now with all the other Star Wars material, but the world building of episode 4 was truly fantastic. Rebellion, Empire, Jedi, these were all brand new things to audiences, yet the film set the baseline for what came later.
This scene is an exception. The worldbuilding of the Original Trilogy is dogshit. Lucas did not give much of a damn about how his universe functioned. He literally said "space has air when I want it to." He never explained who supplies the rebels, what the empire had done to provoke the rebels, or how the galaxy as a whole functioned. His stories were all about the journey of the heroes and he left the expanded universe to clean up his incoherent mess.
@philosotree5876 Your confusion is your problem. The movie lays out all significant information. Most Vietnam movies don't explain who's supplying the rebels either. It's not critical information.
@@redrick8900 Not only is that one of the most brain dead comparisons I've ever heard considering VIETNAM IS ACTUAL HISTORY but their level of equipment is nowhere near the level of the Rebel Alliance who HAVE A GODDAMN FLEET.
Star Wars isn't perfect. Not even close.
But the amount of things it gets right is amazing.
Your favourite scene encapsulates the bureaucracy and grandstanding of Episode 1: C-SPAN.
I love this scene for its storytelling and world-building. I've at least once used it as a template for how to do strategy meetings which set up future events whilst also exposing the reader to the inner-workings, organisation, goals, and concerns of a nation's various military, social, and political entities.
@EC Henry 3:00 I find it interesting that you missed the "**you** have constructed, instead of **we** have. It quickly, barely noticable, creates a separation from him to the rest of the people, making him an even greater outsider to this round.
One other line: “Regional governors will have direct control over their territories.” The use of “territories” in this sense has the air of a Mafia conference where the “family” heads talk about their spheres of operation. SW wasn’t that far off from Godfather 1 and 2, which reacquainted the viewing public with organized crime; so the line reinforces the evil nature of the Empire.
I mean... That's one way to look at it. Not a great one, but one nonetheless.
this is confirmed in Andor, where we see how the Empire's reach exceed it's grasp, and it must rely on corporate powers to enforce policy
This is my favorite Star Wars channel :)
Such a great analysis.
Love to see more of this! There’s a lot of details I never thought about which you brought out
I'm glad you included the scene with Biggs! It's great to be reminded of what a great character he is, swinging in on a rope at the last moment to save the day!
Forciness!
I love this analysis. My favorite part of this scene was that Vader never sat down. He seemed so out of place and uncomfortable around the Imperial Leaders.
Not uncomfortable so much as different. He was not one of them, he was special. He STOOD OVER THEM the entire time.
@@mikejankowski6321 stood over, but also seemed uncomfortable. And when you think of how he was in constant pain from his suit, it makes sense.
@ If you want to ascribe his apparent discomfort to suit pain, which was reconned later and unknown to the audience at that point, then there is nothing unique about the briefing scene and the presence of the imperial leadership as per the original comment. The suit pain would be a constant background factor. Vader’s body language did not unequivocally indicate discomfort to me. No needless pacing, squirming, or hunching over. And no strain in his voice. Indeed, he came off powerful, poised, and in control.
@@mikejankowski6321 If that's your interpretation, sure. The best part of the scene is that he does seem different and uncomfortable or out of place in my opinion, not part of the basic hierarchy. Cheers.
@@rebelscale He's very different. He has an American accent and they don't. He's dressed different. He has different beliefs.
This is also the scene in and deleted outtake when we first hear the word “Sith”
One of my favourite scenes from star wars. Got all the voice lines memorized. I was honestly dissapointed by how they continued Tagge's story in Vader comics. I feel like the charachter had huge potential to be a great villain
At least his brother, Baron Tagge, gave Vader a run for his money in the old Marvel comics.
I love this scene as well, from the Imperial bickering to the comment about the Senate's dissolution, so much worldbuilding done in such a masterfully brief way!
I've been rewatching this scene multiple times over the past week
I never considered Vader's confidence in the force in the board room scene is a small sign of his eventual redemption, that's really interesting. There is something about ANH Vader that seems different from the rest, he has the better lines in this film and it makes him come off as more reasonable, which ironically kinda makes him seem scarier. His line about being too proud of the death star is a perfect example.
i never really noticed before how organically this scene does all the work it does. thanks EC!
Ever since "The Princess Bride" came out, Darth Vader's "As you wish" sounds completely different to me.
This entire movie is possibly the pinnacle of both natural exposition and visual storytelling to introduce and explain a completely new and unique world to an audience. And it's not just the script and the editing, it's also how the worldbuilding was designed to be very easily accessible given the amount of complexity.
1:58 It's possible this officer/official has never met Vader before this scene, so he has no reason to fear him.
"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways" indicates that Motti knows who Vader is and why he's there, and resents the Rasputin-like way he's insinuated himself into the power structure. Vader just doesn't show off very often.
I have always LOVED this scene. My primary interest was Vader's force choke and the way he delivers the "Lack of faith disturbing" line. I was always aware there was a lot of information being passed along about the senate, Vader has bosses other than the emperor and so forth but the analysis here is next level. A lot of angles I had never considered before.
The deleted Luke and Biggs scene was forced on George Lucas by the executives who wanted a big exposition dump for the audience. It still became canon via the movie novelization ghost written by Alan Dean Foster and it works very well there because of the difference between the written media where the reader can take their time and absorb this versus a movie that HAS to maintain a pace and be interesting as well as entertaining at the same time.
This original scene in *Star* *Wars* shows that the force hasn’t been seen for decades.
This was my favourite scene as a kid. The intro to return of the jedi, where Vader has a "chat" with I believe the same imperial officer whom he chokes out in this scene, was another absolute favorite.
well said. well created video. the minute i saw the thumbnail....i think i knew nearly EVERYTHING you were going to say, but never thought of it, myself. you are 100% right: politics, power, faith, exposition, and situation/summary, all in one scene.
I am glad more people are appreciating this scene. It was always one of my favorites. I remember as a kid, instead of finding it boring as most kids might (Well to be fair, when I was 3 or 4 it was, but by around 7 or 8), I found myself wondering about what they were talking about and how much bigger the story was outside the movies (And this was before I was really aware of the EU).
Love your takes and analysis of Star Wars.
Never thought about this scene this way! Very insightful analysis.
One of the things I've always liked about this scene was the dude in a white uniform in the background. Combined with the fact that there are two different shades of grey uniform and we had scene imperials in storm trooper armor as well as black uniforms, this one dude in white who doesn't even get the camera focused on him or a single second of dialog or dedicated run time and is just in the background helps to establish the Imperial forces as a diverse complex organization with multiple separate service branches and internal factions.
This scene has always been tops for me. Thank you for appreciating it!
One thing interesting is that this scene was supposed to go in a different location or sequence. It made a lot more sense to have Ben Kenobi talk about the Force, then see Darth Vader talk about the Force.
The main reason this scene works so well is one common to all good exposition scenes. The characters are giving each other information that is necessary for them to share and which they don’t already know.
My favourite example of this is Back To The Future. When Doc is explaining the plot of the movie to Marty, it is necessary for him to do so because he needs Marty’s help and Marty does not know any of this already.
Bravo on your analysis! I’m really impressed at the richness these films still have to pull from them!
An honorable mention has to be said for the Opera scene in the prequels. Much like this scene, it's simply characters conversing. it's extremely lore dense and intriguing from a world building aspect. I know many people consider that the best in the series, simply because it teases us with such a good expansion of what we know.
That scene adds nothing but another evil space wizard who, in the context of that movie, might as well be made up by Palpatine to tempt Annakin .
Ah yes, the scene that introduces us to Anakin's Thesis.
The editing and shot choices in that scene are extremely well dialed in too.
The cut to the two shot from behind where Anakin looks to Palpatine after he mentions "the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise" alone shows Lucas' mastery.
That's my favorite scene in all of Star Wars.
@@Yurt_enthusiast7 That scene adds a lot if you pay attention.
This is the type of scene that you can start with and just build out the rest of the story from. If you told me it was one of the first scenes Lucas wrote I wouldn't be surprised.
…damn this is an excellent analysis of the scene. Also, good call in pointing out the differences between the empire, Vader and even obi wan. It’s showing us on very selective bits what motivates the empire minions and why Vader is different.
But also, I really like what the officer says to Vader “don’t scare us with your sorcerer ways lord Vader. Your ancient religion…” this is gives enough to back up obi WAN’s claim that long ago the Jedi were guardians. Whatever happened was enough to make an entire generation or two forget what force users can do, or rather the difference between a Jedi and sith. To this new generation, the empire is all they know and the stories of Jedi/with are legends
I've been saying this for a long time and people always look at me like I'm crazy. Glad to see a video on it.
Excellent synopsis, as always. Luthen's escape from Imperial custody explains the Imperials' institutionalized hubris and professional closed-mindedness. The captain is an experienced naval officer, not quick to judge, tempered, efficient, and professional. Who is surrounded by two subordinates who believe or have been taught to believe their ship's arsenal and their Imperial authority is all they need to command. Not believing a small vessel of any threat could escape their custody or defy their jurisdiction, only to be stymied when it solely defeats their fighter detachment.
After the escape, the captain doesn't wig out like his officers. Instead, he contemplates a reckoning. Instead of giving an over-the-top monologue, he silently pines for vengeance. Not to mention, it looks badass.
It's also the scene where we first learn that the Force is demonstrably real.
We also see that Vader is not necessarily the highest ranking person in the room despite his prominence.
Exposition done right. It's not ham fisted or clunky. It has a purpose, flows with the scene given and informs the viewer what is going on while keeping engagement. It's like you were in the conference room itself as the characters talk to each other instead of them talking to the audience directly which breaks the suspension of disbelief.
I have literally said this same thing for years. Ever since I first saw it in 1986 when I was six.