Yeah.......I'll bet she loves the those donated collections!!!!! Too bad they'll all go into a drawer at the Indiana Historical Museum ......never to be seen again!!
Banner stones was basically fletching before the use of feathers from what another collector of Indian Artifacts from Virginia. His collection contains over 50,000 pieces .
I've heard stories of them (museums), borrowing artifacts from people and local museums never to be returned again (ohio historical society), Not to mention all the indian mounds they ravaged. Watch your artifacts folks never loan them out, esp. to museums...
Wonderful video! I inherited a cigar box - just like the ones on the table in your video - from my father, which contained 37 lithic artifacts. One is a notched stone ax, one is a "celt" just like the one discussed, and a wide assortment of Archaic to Adena spear points. Although my family are all from central New York state, an archeologist who saw them said they were more midwestern in origin. Indeed, New York cherts are dark gray, but most of my artifacts are off-white to light gray. I wish your video description included additional resource links.
Recently, I've found some Native American relics in my own backyard, which used to be a pond at one point. Sadly, I had overlooked many of them, thinking that they were just normal stones and rocks.
Same with me, I dug a massive hole to make a pond and turns out, it was an Indian camp ground at one point. I moved away many years ago but i only recently found out it was also a Burial ground.
Great video when I was a young boy my father expressed the importance of site numbering and mapping all the sites and artifacts so they will be known where they were found very important
This is very helpful and educational. I have a number of pieces found over my 66 yrs . And enjoy looking for more . Ive had to slow down due to health reasons. That's why I like these videos.Takes me back.
Nice video... Cons: The pestles were certainly used in "food production"...in fact Corn is now found at arch sites as old as 7000 years ago....way older than archeologists believed only 10 years ago 2) I would hesitate to call that small eared point a "Dalton" 3) pottery also is much older than most "archeologists" claim..... Professional archeologists are only as good as their willingness to keep studying and reading....
I really feel like archeologist would be a lot more knowledgeable if they had any sort of field experience, I have a few primitive skills under my belt, and have to say it had greatly effected how I look at artifacts and how they were used
I cringed at the dalton too.. Camera angles are horrible though so it is harder to see. Also I dont think she understood timeframes from BP/BC. Her estimates are off on timeframes.
Yep that's what I was thinking. She uses lots of terms like, Large, Shaft, Smooth, and the way she holds the "shaft " rock, heck I was starting to get off.
Sometimes natural small holes can form in bone as well. It depends on the hike I would say. Tiny pin sized holes completely through the bone are usually natural, but bigger rough holes bigger than a centimeter in diameter is probably an instrument.
The stone point discussed at 4:35 is not a knife in my opinion. A triangular shape's purpose is to penetrate. Having two sharpened sides it could easily cut the person working with it as a handheld blade which is less than ideal. Also, it is clearly notched and this indicates it was made to be attached to some kind of shaft; either an unusually large arrow or perhaps a small, slender spear.
Thanks for the video. It has helped me understand what some of there artifacts are. I have been hooked on hunting arrow head ever since I found some in my grandfather's garden in Ohio back in the early 1970's.
Very Very interesting and well made. Here in Tennessee I have found a few artifacts over the years. I have a beautiful Copena point, celt and some scrapers that I enjoy. Thanks for the excellent video!
Nice! Where abouts are you in TN? We're in E TN and have found TONS of great pieces on our property. I'll be sharing videos on them soon! One is a mortised piece believe it or not!!! It's the best one yet!
Growing up on my family's farm, I found a lot of arrowheads, tiny ones (for birds?) to BIG ones (spear points), axes (of different shapes and sizes), etc. I grew up on Otter Creek, in Macoupin County, Illinois. We owned the property below the Otter Lake dam. I found a nice hoe made of flint, and many of the things shown here. Many of the arrowheads I found were early and middle woodland style. We're not too far from Cahokia Mounds, down across the Mississippi River from St. Louis, MO. I loved to see the many different colors of materials from red, rose-red, yellow, brown, black, to white, and all colors in-between. A cousin of mine moved to the Ft. Smith, Arkansas, area years ago, and took with him some of the arrowheads he found on our farm with him. He came across an older fellow to whom he showed his finds, and this man told him exactly where he'd found them, and much more! (He came to find out the this older man was an expert on identifying artifacts found across the U.S. Unfortunately, he has passed away.) I also had a great-uncle who had a HUGE collection, which he'd found in his travels all across the U.S. He died back in the mid- to late-1960's, and his entire collection was sold at auction (I remember looking at a rooms filled with showcases, and framed arrowheads on every wall. He even had at least one large rock with the Thunder-Bird carved on it! His collection got me looking. His name was Ira Crump. I think his entire collection was bought by an adopted daughter, who lived in WA state. Thanks for sharing this information! I enjoyed watching. It brought back memories of visiting Dixon Mounds, Cahokia Mounds, etc. when I was younger.
In 1957 I attached my 50 cent arrow head to the tip of a spear and threw it into some dirt. It broke in two. Come to find out Indians only used their stone tipped weapons once. Makes total sense.
Those are all found in a field that has been plowed regulerly for years. Alot of field finds are broken and pretty rough looking soooo.. i think the grinder she said isnt an articact is in fact an artifact. Just because it isnt smooth and polished anymore dosny mean anything
I believe that humans were on the North & South American Continents for a long time and that they used bow and arrows longer than what she is stating. Archaeologist theorize about a lot of stuff and then tend to accept their theories as facts in a lot of cases.
@@mynameishuman4582 yes she was referring to the bow and arrowing coming to the western part of north america, but a lot of people seem to think she meant the bow coming to the entirety of the Americas. Easy mistake.
Same as today as back then, if your gonna go Elk hunting your not gonna use a .22 cal bullet to bring down an 800 lb Elk your gonna use at least a .30 caliber 170 grain bullet at a minimum just like you wouldn't use a little arrowhead to bring down a whitetail buck your gonna use a bigger arrowhead or a small arrowhead for a turkey or a pheasant.
I live in an area inhabited for thousands of years by first peoples. I dig up things in my yard I think are artifacts for sure, but i have no way of knowing.
Thanks for your opinion and your video, I was not there that day and neither are you so I appreciate your guesses and your speculation you're very honest and saying I don't know
Huh? How? Our knowledge of pottery manufacture indicates hand work, with tools being used to impress designs in them being the only instrumentation involved.
I loved this. Very interesting and I loved how she backed up her identifications. Learned more through this video than trying to decipher what’s written in ID guides. Thanks for posting!
Ok but my issue with how she analyzes rocks to determine whether or not they are in fact artifacts vs. geofacts is that she can't say for CERTAIN that the larger "geofact" isn't from a much earlier time period that over time has been weathered and thus shows a more rugged surface as opposed to the smaller pestles that are more than likely from a later era. Also, the earlier people, according to what history tells us, were not static and always wondering and so one can surmise that what tools they did make or use were much rougher as they did not make them to last as they wouldn't carry all the tools they made with them when they would move.....I just don't like when an archaeologist COMPLETELY dismisses some pieces as "nothing" instead of putting a little more thought and research into them...it's a shame to think that there are so many great discoveries that are only tossed to the side for lack of consideration. I mean, to have a rock be shaped such as the pestle she was dismissing, that rock would have had to form under either very odd circumstances in the ground or in a creek where it was turned just right every so often so that it was smooth all the way around....if you understand rocks and how they form you'll better be able to follow my line of thinking....but anyway, great video aside from that lol!!
I want to add another point to consider when looking at artifacts... not everyone has the same level of skills which is another factor that will contribute to the differing appearances of similar pieces....some people were better than others. Also, children had to be taught just like we teach our children today so we'll find some rough looking pieces that wanted to be something LOL!! OPEN YOUR MINDS AND THINK....we are missing out on so much from these people because archaeologist tend to play it safe WAY too often. I wish they would stop being scared of being wrong, and just do their work for the sake of learning valuable information....if you're wrong IT'S OK, that's a part of science....that's the fun of science.
I agree completely if some alteration can be explained, and the perfectly finished artifacts are not the norm, they many times are grave goods or ceremonial and a good way to find a grave robber.. Hap hazard or situational tools would explain a great deal, I as you perhaps, have picked up a large cobble and knocked a flake off to gut fish on more than one occasion. I have pecked and ground Mary Ellen jasper to copy a natural stone and friends can not tell them apart once the skin oils dirty it up. And, FCR or fire cracked rocks...whole nother story, many times they looked natural even after use on antler, wood and bone.
Think about it, at least 12,000 years, or perhaps 600 generations of people who used only stone to survive and not one of them pick that up that saddle horn pestle looking geo-fact to save hours of pecking and grinding on a different cobble? She said it was the same type of stone even...Come on, she or maybe all of archaeology is missing out on methods of alteration and maybe due to that, the different cultures that passed through that area
Chris, great comment. While to call it anything without proof of modification is of course speculation, a paradigm of using common sense to explore the preform aspect in cases like this may lead to better anthropological history. The University of Kansas published a water wear study on points and it opened my eyes to how river currents and black sand can erase evidence that a blade was ever retouched. Now add hundreds of years in the right stream and evidence erased, many archies will call that bell pestle preform a geo-fact even though it shares type of stone and approximate shape to the finished examples. It also appears they ignore that the shape of that geo-fact would never happen in nature considering it's natural habit and cleavage. If it was a sedimentary stone I would be the first to think "burrow fill"
Reusing arrow head was new to me. So arrow head was quite important tool and maybe Native American was sometimes tryed to find it back after they shot. I heard that South American people was using attrattle. Very interesting to think about weapon, tool. Beautiful stone work.
Japan Rock Hunt Many flint artifacts were used as "multi-tools". A larger blade used as a knife, spear, etc, and resharpened as it became worn or broken, gradually being more&more reduced in size. This was especially necessary when they found themselves away from reliable flint sources in their travels.
I agree with the fact some artifacts are not completely finished. Like the preform you make before the arrowhead. I’ve got tons I haven’t finished just rough drafts.
I have some friends in Indiana that show portable rock art. More and more people are beginning to see it. I’m proud to say three US based accredited archeologists (two from universities, one from a state office) have in their possession artifacts from the mound site in North Carolina that was destroyed. Many people do not know that the tribes on the East Coast do not have federal recognition because they made treaties w the English before the war of independence. They were the first contacted, of course. After we gained or independence, they did not get recognition so the federal graves in protections app does not apply. North Carolina is really bad, it has several mounds-destroying them in front of the entire community. They used to call the Indian burial grounds. Now it’s a housing development. The artifacts here feature mammoths, and birds, primarily ducks.
Implement made' Initialy rough'- over time with use and polishing gets smooth' it's good to use ones most basic of elementary common senses and let logic work for you' ..
I made a quick atlatl from a split piece of elm about the size and shape of one limb on a small recurve bow. I connected 2 aluminum arrows and used a field tip 125 grains. It cast that dart 16 feet up and pierced a pine limb 67 yards away. The field tip went 18" through the middle of the thumb size branch.
Fannie Allen She implies that Indians didn't opportunistically use stone as they found it, but rather ALWAYS modified it, & that if it wasn't modified it wasn't used...I emphatically disagree with that assessment. However I do agree that "geofacts" or some naturally occurring stone formations can sometimes be confused with man-altered implements.
It's difficult to believe pottery shards were only used for food use. I think most shards were reused as trade tokens, if not specifically made for that purpose. When archaeologists speak, take it with a grain of salt. They have a lot of useful ideas, but they are too sure of their preconceived notions, and too quick to recite whatever journal entry they just read.
Tell us how you came by your expertise, inquiring minds are curious. Seriously,are you a typically uninformed Trump supporter who's factually challenged?
+B K You and BJ, or J bone, whatever, if Trump is re-elected it will be like a toilet backing up& we'll have to deal with it then. I have nothing against republicans really, but I'm baffled by those who think Trump is worthy of being anything more than a reality show con man. So far as archaeology goes, I'll rely on the opinions of those who study the subject&are better informed....those who recognize evidence. I trust their findings& my 55yrs of experience in the field over your opinions. I do however defend your right to your opinions, & my right to discount them.
+B K Actually I should apologize to you& J Bone. I don't argue& fight over different opinions my friends have from mine& there's not much sense in me arguing with strangers either.
I found a pemmican making tool. Petrified wood fleshing knife. A triangle shaped rock with a Viking Rune on it, retrieved from deeper than 20 feet. I am wondering how it made it to Saskatchewan?
I spoke to a native American chief who is a museum curator and archeologists and I was told the people would use points for a Atlatl up to seven inches long, you won't take down a deer to easy with the smaller ones .
These are definitely weathered stones, but made by Indians. Unless you know what you're looking for, you won't know. Buy a book based on your territory .
--not real sure on ALL her determinations. But I guess a Stone Age person could use a tool for what they want besides what was intended originally. I thought Celts were for hide scraping, but other uses certainly are possible. -never heard of her theory on Banner Stones being used as Atl Atl weights- I'd think there would be lots more of them around. Just my impression-
If Ive got a lot of these artifacts where would I go to with them? Ive got plenty of pictures an some Ive identified a lot Ive not been able to get to.
I would find a local archeological group, maybe try going to your local state park and asking admin if they have any names/resources you can call if you can’t find any online. Make it clear that you DO NOT wish to donate your artifacts, but you are willing to offer them up for inspection, identification, and study.
A road trip to your state college geological, or archeological department might get you in to speak to a professor, who probably has lots of contacts if they can’t identify it for you.
14:55 Given that humans have been in North America at least 13000 years, and likely longer: 1. Aritfacts that are older will reflect less sophisticated techniques and time and erosion will have affected their appearance making it more difficult to determine if it is an artifact or not. 2. As in any skill there were no doubt more skilled and less skilled tool makers, not all examples reflect prefected and refined techniques even within the same culture or time period. 3. Some tools were created in a hurry and designed to be single use, such as process a kill and then discarded and these kind of artifacts are more challenging to identify.
HOW, AND WHO FOR SURE SAY JUST HOW OLD IS AN ARROWHEAD OR/ AN ARTIFACT? AND WHERE AND HOW CAN I GET A HOLD OF AN BANNER STONE? I'D LOVE TO HAVE AN BANNER STONE TO PUT IN MY COLLECTION.
Globally, Bow and arrow use is as old as our civilizations. . . up to 10k years at least. They are accounted for in written text and older, pictographs painted on rock walls. We can certainly assume the inhabitants in NA would have those same technologies. To say the bow and arrow wasn't here until 700 AD (a mere 1300 years ago), is just a bit silly. . . .
It is possible some were on arrows, accounts of bows being 100+ lbs, the Spaniards could not even draw the bow and the native men and young lads could pull them at full draw amd even past the ear, so I beleive its possible they could have made bigger arrows that could easily been trusted with such a strong bow
I'd bring it home if I'd found it. While some types of stone include banding that causes uneven erosion,from this video this piece doesn't seem to be that type. I tend to think the "handle"wasn't completely finished.
She is right and much many archeologists/scientists will support her. People that disagree here... i'm very sorry for yours clueless. Try read about it more, and you will change your opinion. Books for clever, TV for stupid. Thats real true. СПАСИБО Michelle! You're don't guilt for stupid people. or how we say here 'The problem of the tribe the chieftain is not f..k'.
@@indoril9489 Calling a turd a rose doesn't make it smell any better. " Flint is reserved for such material that forms in chalk or marl. Flint is simply a type of chert. (At least this was the distinction that was made in the literature when I was a geology student 35+ years ago)." --International Gem Society
@@Ibringitthefuckdown Flint is a type of chert, true, but like you said "Flint is reserved for such material that forms in chalk or marl". Sure, two different dogs are both dogs, but that doesn't make them the same breed. They are all chert sure, but the distinction is important, especially in archaeology.
In my area there are quite a few bedrock 🧱 mortared that are at least a foot deep wonder how many decades years etc it took to grind these down to this depth
I'm wondering if Ms. Greene is the daughter of Dr. Lance Greene at the Wright State anthropology department in Ohio. I have an interesting artifact that he needs to see. Maybe she would be interested too. This may be just the find of a lifetime.
Most perferators are made of bone.some perferatrators weremade of sharp thorns but not stone drills were made of stone. If a person has made all these things and tried them out then they were see what I mean
Wow in Missouri and Illinois the archaeologists hate us , I found a Viking type brooch January 23 on a native American Late Woodland campsite they say it's modern lol ok
Apparently she doesn't recognize the 2000+ years after Christ as important in our timeline. Also, I've yet to see an atlatl with a balancing or counterweight .
Because most of the people who look for these types of videos already have varying degrees of background knowledge about the subject, which is what drew them to look for the videos. Some know a lot and some don't.
Pestle? C'mon, it's very clear that was a man-made artifact, used for grinding. . . not "nature playing a trick on us". Wonderfully polished bottom, and worn handle. It just wasn't quite as finely-tuned as the smaller ones, and the rock was different (looked like granite). Could very well be a much earlier (cruder) example too. . .like all lithic artifacts, they've been refined over time.
What if the university gets all excited take scores of pics and the next time ur back they talking about varnish on the item I figured somebody with 43 years head of archeology department would have wasted all that time taking those pics I felt like that lady down in Mexico they blackballed I hate to put this in the closet so set on the narrative I wish somebody just wanted truth sad state of affairs
This woman is a fine example of learning inside a box, or from a book and having no real experience in the practical use of ancient tools. The celt for example is used to skin animals and cut meat. There's a big difference in size and the use marks on the artifacts from a celt to an ax.
@Mark Breland Yes, the ancient people of N. America used stone like slate that could be sharpened to a razor edge. Don't confuse an ax with a celt like many people do. Celts were never used to chop trees down, most are too small and made of material that will shatter if struck against a tree. The fat layer beteen the skin and meat is where a celt was used, to sepperate the skin from the meat, this is why the cutting edge on a celt is curved to fit the shape of the animals body as its being skinned.
She's not gonna explain the biface on the bevel. Third piece I think. How its worked on one side then flipped so only one side of each face is worked. He even asks tryingvto get her to elaborate and she just explains how thry know different styles map different times or areas. She never gets to it. I watch these to learn But it's frustrating when you see "experts" that don't seem really into their work. Now I'm not saying she's no good , she's great But he hints at explaining the style and she hovers around it to move on
@@thomash4950 I had to rewatch, I say at-latle too , OMG this was hard to watch again, she points out a 11000 yr old Dalton found in Indiana, but previously says Arrows didn't exist in the SW till 700 AD.....smh
I can tell that she has a lot of knowledge, and I enjoy listening to her-as should anyone who wants to further their scope of knowledge. That being said however, she claims that “when Indians made something, they really made it”. That’s just not true. I’ve found, when hunting in flint rich areas, that a lot of artifacts are more crude. My theory is that a person is more likely to spend more time finely crafting a tool when they’ve had to trade for material from outside of their area (think Indians in Kansas using chert from the Texas panhandle). But the Indians that are spending time around quarries are less likely to finely craft tools because they have an abundance of material-readily available.
I thought something like that years ago so I asked my dad. He said, well there's lots of reasons for finding them like that. Some are ones made by young people learning. Some are made by lazy people, some people make decent ones, while others are true masters of the art. He said Indians aren't any different than we are Jimmy. And, some of those areas with lots of good materials were the perfect place to sit down and teach how to flint knap as you have lots of materials to start over with when you screw up. He showed me some of his early attempts and they weren't near as nice as what he made later on after practicing for years. Made a lot of sense after thinking about it.
I have watched this video so many times and always enjoy it. I wish we had someone like you in Missouri to help identify some of our finds.
Yeah.......I'll bet she loves the those donated collections!!!!! Too bad they'll all go into a drawer at the Indiana Historical Museum ......never to be seen again!!
What wouldve been the actual purpose of that banner stone???
,that's a terrific looking item that required master workmanship.
Bob Strong its purpose is to be a counter weight to launch the spear further than you can without it
Banner stones was basically fletching before the use of feathers from what another collector of Indian Artifacts from Virginia. His collection contains over 50,000 pieces .
Darrell Goodman wrong
I've heard stories of them (museums), borrowing artifacts from people and local museums never to be returned again (ohio historical society), Not to mention all the indian mounds they ravaged. Watch your artifacts folks never loan them out, esp. to museums...
Wonderful video! I inherited a cigar box - just like the ones on the table in your video - from my father, which contained 37 lithic artifacts. One is a notched stone ax, one is a "celt" just like the one discussed, and a wide assortment of Archaic to Adena spear points. Although my family are all from central New York state, an archeologist who saw them said they were more midwestern in origin. Indeed, New York cherts are dark gray, but most of my artifacts are off-white to light gray. I wish your video description included additional resource links.
The ages old storage container. The Cigar Box !
Recently, I've found some Native American relics in my own backyard, which used to be a pond at one point. Sadly, I had overlooked many of them, thinking that they were just normal stones and rocks.
Can we see
Same with me, I dug a massive hole to make a pond and turns out, it was an Indian camp ground at one point. I moved away many years ago but i only recently found out it was also a Burial ground.
Great video when I was a young boy my father expressed the importance of site numbering and mapping all the sites and artifacts so they will be known where they were found very important
Brilliant beginners guide delivered eloquently. I am wife of Myaamia who studied Anthropology & collects artifacts.
I love her enthusiasm
Nice Collection for the Hysterical Society to be kept in the basement
This is very helpful and educational. I have a number of pieces found over my 66 yrs . And enjoy looking for more . Ive had to slow down due to health reasons. That's why I like these videos.Takes me back.
Nice video...
Cons:
The pestles were certainly used in "food production"...in fact Corn is now found at arch sites as old as 7000 years ago....way older than archeologists believed only 10 years ago
2) I would hesitate to call that small eared point a "Dalton"
3) pottery also is much older than most "archeologists" claim.....
Professional archeologists are only as good as their willingness to keep studying and reading....
And keeping an open mind, when new theories/facts are revealed.
Her discussion of growing food crops is very poor.
I really feel like archeologist would be a lot more knowledgeable if they had any sort of field experience, I have a few primitive skills under my belt, and have to say it had greatly effected how I look at artifacts and how they were used
The secret is willing to change your mind Just to get closer to truth
I cringed at the dalton too.. Camera angles are horrible though so it is harder to see. Also I dont think she understood timeframes from BP/BC. Her estimates are off on timeframes.
My wife says I’m becoming an artifact
These two need to get a room ASAP!
Yep that's what I was thinking. She uses lots of terms like, Large, Shaft, Smooth, and the way she holds the "shaft " rock, heck I was starting to get off.
He said , " If I go home and polish it! 😆
The sexual innuendo is impossible to ignore , I'd love to see the blooper reel .
When she started to talk about hoes ! LMAO
If that bone has a hole in the middle I was told by my family Shawnee Nation that it is a whistle
How to use it you blow in the hole in the middle
Sometimes natural small holes can form in bone as well. It depends on the hike I would say. Tiny pin sized holes completely through the bone are usually natural, but bigger rough holes bigger than a centimeter in diameter is probably an instrument.
The stone point discussed at 4:35 is not a knife in my opinion.
A triangular shape's purpose is to penetrate.
Having two sharpened sides it could easily cut the person working with it as a handheld blade which is less than ideal.
Also, it is clearly notched and this indicates it was made to be attached to some kind of shaft; either an unusually large arrow or perhaps a small, slender spear.
Thanks for the video. It has helped me understand what some of there artifacts are. I have been hooked on hunting arrow head ever since I found some in my grandfather's garden in Ohio back in the early 1970's.
The video is terrible in information
Very Very interesting and well made. Here in Tennessee I have found a few artifacts over the years. I have a beautiful Copena point, celt and some scrapers that I enjoy. Thanks for the excellent video!
Nice! Where abouts are you in TN? We're in E TN and have found TONS of great pieces on our property. I'll be sharing videos on them soon! One is a mortised piece believe it or not!!! It's the best one yet!
@@kenziekae3741 Thanks for being responsible and returning them.
Love my artifact collection. Thks for your info helping me. I started my page to help inform others as well!
so glad I stumbled across this video! Thanks for doing this!
Such a fine collection..really fascinating.
Thanks for sharing
Growing up on my family's farm, I found a lot of arrowheads, tiny ones (for birds?) to BIG ones (spear points), axes (of different shapes and sizes), etc. I grew up on Otter Creek, in Macoupin County, Illinois. We owned the property below the Otter Lake dam. I found a nice hoe made of flint, and many of the things shown here. Many of the arrowheads I found were early and middle woodland style. We're not too far from Cahokia Mounds, down across the Mississippi River from St. Louis, MO. I loved to see the many different colors of materials from red, rose-red, yellow, brown, black, to white, and all colors in-between.
A cousin of mine moved to the Ft. Smith, Arkansas, area years ago, and took with him some of the arrowheads he found on our farm with him. He came across an older fellow to whom he showed his finds, and this man told him exactly where he'd found them, and much more! (He came to find out the this older man was an expert on identifying artifacts found across the U.S. Unfortunately, he has passed away.) I also had a great-uncle who had a HUGE collection, which he'd found in his travels all across the U.S. He died back in the mid- to late-1960's, and his entire collection was sold at auction (I remember looking at a rooms filled with showcases, and framed arrowheads on every wall. He even had at least one large rock with the Thunder-Bird carved on it! His collection got me looking. His name was Ira Crump. I think his entire collection was bought by an adopted daughter, who lived in WA state.
Thanks for sharing this information! I enjoyed watching. It brought back memories of visiting Dixon Mounds, Cahokia Mounds, etc. when I was younger.
In 1957 I attached my 50 cent arrow head to the tip of a spear and threw it into some dirt. It broke in two. Come to find out Indians only used their stone tipped weapons once. Makes total sense.
thanks for being responsble and returning these artifacts to the Native Nations.
Those are all found in a field that has been plowed regulerly for years. Alot of field finds are broken and pretty rough looking soooo.. i think the grinder she said isnt an articact is in fact an artifact. Just because it isnt smooth and polished anymore dosny mean anything
I believe that humans were on the North & South American Continents for a long time and that they used bow and arrows longer than what she is stating. Archaeologist theorize about a lot of stuff and then tend to accept their theories as facts in a lot of cases.
Some people believe bows and arrows were around 2 or 3 time longer than she said.
Wasn't she referring to Indiana specifically though?
@@mynameishuman4582 yes she was referring to the bow and arrowing coming to the western part of north america, but a lot of people seem to think she meant the bow coming to the entirety of the Americas. Easy mistake.
Most of what americans call arrowheads are infact atlatl points which is a spear thrower
Same as today as back then, if your gonna go Elk hunting your not gonna use a .22 cal bullet to bring down an 800 lb Elk your gonna use at least a .30 caliber 170 grain bullet at a minimum just like you wouldn't use a little arrowhead to bring down a whitetail buck your gonna use a bigger arrowhead or a small arrowhead for a turkey or a pheasant.
Great video.
Thanks for the video!
I live in an area inhabited for thousands of years by first peoples. I dig up things in my yard I think are artifacts for sure, but i have no way of knowing.
Thanks for your opinion and your video, I was not there that day and neither are you so I appreciate your guesses and your speculation you're very honest and saying I don't know
pestle were also used for making pottery
Huh? How? Our knowledge of pottery manufacture indicates hand work, with tools being used to impress designs in them being the only instrumentation involved.
I have a pestle that's a huge crystal I think it's one off a kind you can even see some grain/grinded food on the sides still.
I loved this. Very interesting and I loved how she backed up her identifications. Learned more through this video than trying to decipher what’s written in ID guides. Thanks for posting!
Ok but my issue with how she analyzes rocks to determine whether or not they are in fact artifacts vs. geofacts is that she can't say for CERTAIN that the larger "geofact" isn't from a much earlier time period that over time has been weathered and thus shows a more rugged surface as opposed to the smaller pestles that are more than likely from a later era. Also, the earlier people, according to what history tells us, were not static and always wondering and so one can surmise that what tools they did make or use were much rougher as they did not make them to last as they wouldn't carry all the tools they made with them when they would move.....I just don't like when an archaeologist COMPLETELY dismisses some pieces as "nothing" instead of putting a little more thought and research into them...it's a shame to think that there are so many great discoveries that are only tossed to the side for lack of consideration. I mean, to have a rock be shaped such as the pestle she was dismissing, that rock would have had to form under either very odd circumstances in the ground or in a creek where it was turned just right every so often so that it was smooth all the way around....if you understand rocks and how they form you'll better be able to follow my line of thinking....but anyway, great video aside from that lol!!
I want to add another point to consider when looking at artifacts... not everyone has the same level of skills which is another factor that will contribute to the differing appearances of similar pieces....some people were better than others. Also, children had to be taught just like we teach our children today so we'll find some rough looking pieces that wanted to be something LOL!! OPEN YOUR MINDS AND THINK....we are missing out on so much from these people because archaeologist tend to play it safe WAY too often. I wish they would stop being scared of being wrong, and just do their work for the sake of learning valuable information....if you're wrong IT'S OK, that's a part of science....that's the fun of science.
all excellent points.. Kenzie
I agree completely if some alteration can be explained, and the perfectly finished artifacts are not the norm, they many times are grave goods or ceremonial and a good way to find a grave robber.. Hap hazard or situational tools would explain a great deal, I as you perhaps, have picked up a large cobble and knocked a flake off to gut fish on more than one occasion. I have pecked and ground Mary Ellen jasper to copy a natural stone and friends can not tell them apart once the skin oils dirty it up. And, FCR or fire cracked rocks...whole nother story, many times they looked natural even after use on antler, wood and bone.
Think about it, at least 12,000 years, or perhaps 600 generations of people who used only stone to survive and not one of them pick that up that saddle horn pestle looking geo-fact to save hours of pecking and grinding on a different cobble? She said it was the same type of stone even...Come on, she or maybe all of archaeology is missing out on methods of alteration and maybe due to that, the different cultures that passed through that area
Chris, great comment. While to call it anything without proof of modification is of course speculation, a paradigm of using common sense to explore the preform aspect in cases like this may lead to better anthropological history. The University of Kansas published a water wear study on points and it opened my eyes to how river currents and black sand can erase evidence that a blade was ever retouched. Now add hundreds of years in the right stream and evidence erased, many archies will call that bell pestle preform a geo-fact even though it shares type of stone and approximate shape to the finished examples. It also appears they ignore that the shape of that geo-fact would never happen in nature considering it's natural habit and cleavage. If it was a sedimentary stone I would be the first to think "burrow fill"
Great talk, learned a lot. Good to see the professional archaeology community partnering with avocationals, we all win. Thanks for posting!
So cool!!!
Anything on the Adena and Hopewell mounds?
They are found all over the eastern US.
I am curious about the charm stone. WHAT is the purpose of this tool or grinder or drill ?
Reusing arrow head was new to me. So arrow head was quite important tool and maybe Native American was sometimes tryed to find it back after they shot. I heard that South American people was using attrattle. Very interesting to think about weapon, tool. Beautiful stone work.
Japan Rock Hunt Many flint artifacts were used as "multi-tools". A larger blade used as a knife, spear, etc, and resharpened as it became worn or broken, gradually being more&more reduced in size. This was especially necessary when they found themselves away from reliable flint sources in their travels.
[ THANK, YOU FOR YOURE VIDEO AND INFO FROM [GRACELAND FARM COMMERICAL FARMING INC. LLC. EST. 1900s] EAST COAST RURAL VA] 🇺🇸 🏴
I agree with the fact some artifacts are not completely finished. Like the preform you make before the arrowhead. I’ve got tons I haven’t finished just rough drafts.
Were the narrow notches used in the knapping process?
I have some friends in Indiana that show portable rock art. More and more people are beginning to see it. I’m proud to say three US based accredited archeologists (two from universities, one from a state office) have in their possession artifacts from the mound site in North Carolina that was destroyed. Many people do not know that the tribes on the East Coast do not have federal recognition because they made treaties w the English before the war of independence. They were the first contacted, of course. After we gained or independence, they did not get recognition so the federal graves in protections app does not apply. North Carolina is really bad, it has several mounds-destroying them in front of the entire community. They used to call the Indian burial grounds. Now it’s a housing development. The artifacts here feature mammoths, and birds, primarily ducks.
NAGPRA must apply to them nowadays, no?
Implement made' Initialy rough'- over time with use and polishing gets smooth' it's good to use ones most basic of elementary common senses and let logic work for you' ..
How to get close enough to game to use a spear even with a spear throwing mechanism? How far with accuracy and killing force can the spear be thrown?
I made a quick atlatl from a split piece of elm about the size and shape of one limb on a small recurve bow. I connected 2 aluminum arrows and used a field tip 125 grains. It cast that dart 16 feet up and pierced a pine limb 67 yards away. The field tip went 18" through the middle of the thumb size branch.
Unless you were there with these artifacts and can prove that some of these aren't true artifacts, you should never say they aren't.
Fannie Allen She implies that Indians didn't opportunistically use stone as they found it, but rather ALWAYS modified it, & that if it wasn't modified it wasn't used...I emphatically disagree with that assessment. However I do agree that "geofacts" or some naturally occurring stone formations can sometimes be confused with man-altered implements.
I have alot off arrowheads there bird points and a couple broken blades
It's difficult to believe pottery shards were only used for food use. I think most shards were reused as trade tokens, if not specifically made for that purpose.
When archaeologists speak, take it with a grain of salt. They have a lot of useful ideas, but they are too sure of their preconceived notions, and too quick to recite whatever journal entry they just read.
Tell us how you came by your expertise, inquiring minds are curious. Seriously,are you a typically uninformed Trump supporter who's factually challenged?
+B K You and BJ, or J bone, whatever, if Trump is re-elected it will be like a toilet backing up& we'll have to deal with it then. I have nothing against republicans really, but I'm baffled by those who think Trump is worthy of being anything more than a reality show con man. So far as archaeology goes, I'll rely on the opinions of those who study the subject&are better informed....those who recognize evidence. I trust their findings& my 55yrs of experience in the field over your opinions. I do however defend your right to your opinions, & my right to discount them.
+B K Actually I should apologize to you& J Bone. I don't argue& fight over different opinions my friends have from mine& there's not much sense in me arguing with strangers either.
I've found half pots before but they wherent as old as the peace they show.
I found a pemmican making tool. Petrified wood fleshing knife. A triangle shaped rock with a Viking Rune on it, retrieved from deeper than 20 feet. I am wondering how it made it to Saskatchewan?
I spoke to a native American chief who is a museum curator and archeologists and I was told the people would use points for a Atlatl up to seven inches long, you won't take down a deer to easy with the smaller ones .
Atlatal is a weapon of Atlantis, carried by Atlas, and king atlan.
These are definitely weathered stones, but made by Indians. Unless you know what you're looking for, you won't know. Buy a book based on your territory .
--not real sure on ALL her determinations. But I guess a Stone Age person could use a tool for what they want besides what was intended originally. I thought Celts were for hide scraping, but other uses certainly are possible. -never heard of her theory on Banner Stones being used as Atl Atl weights- I'd think there would be lots more of them around. Just my impression-
También tengo una colección de armas nativo americanas
If Ive got a lot of these artifacts where would I go to with them? Ive got plenty of pictures an some Ive identified a lot Ive not been able to get to.
I also have what i have of no doubt some sort of fossilized dinosaur head not sure what kind but it's pretty distinctive
I would find a local archeological group, maybe try going to your local state park and asking admin if they have any names/resources you can call if you can’t find any online. Make it clear that you DO NOT wish to donate your artifacts, but you are willing to offer them up for inspection, identification, and study.
A road trip to your state college geological, or archeological department might get you in to speak to a professor, who probably has lots of contacts if they can’t identify it for you.
How many are gold? Just wondering if the aspect was denounced to help or hurt ...
A Tobacco flower was first & traded (not leaf) & way b4 maze
14:55 Given that humans have been in North America at least 13000 years, and likely longer: 1. Aritfacts that are older will reflect less sophisticated techniques and time and erosion will have affected their appearance making it more difficult to determine if it is an artifact or not.
2. As in any skill there were no doubt more skilled and less skilled tool makers, not all examples reflect prefected and refined techniques even within the same culture or time period.
3. Some tools were created in a hurry and designed to be single use, such as process a kill and then discarded and these kind of artifacts are more challenging to identify.
How can I send you a pic of an artifact I found in North Dakota.
HOW, AND WHO FOR SURE SAY JUST HOW OLD IS AN ARROWHEAD OR/ AN ARTIFACT? AND WHERE AND HOW CAN I GET A HOLD OF AN BANNER STONE? I'D LOVE TO HAVE AN BANNER STONE TO PUT IN MY COLLECTION.
Sharon Rowland You can pickup good books on the subjects at Barnes and noble or on E bay or Amazon .
You can assume the age of worked stone by the patina , the oldest works chert and flint will turn white
And that wasn't a spear point from the woodland era, it was a knife.
I found a big white round ball about 10pounds or more what would this be
Globally, Bow and arrow use is as old as our civilizations. . . up to 10k years at least. They are accounted for in written text and older, pictographs painted on rock walls. We can certainly assume the inhabitants in NA would have those same technologies. To say the bow and arrow wasn't here until 700 AD (a mere 1300 years ago), is just a bit silly. . . .
90% of the comments dont know what archaeology is. a lot of 'experts' here claiming they know more than her
i know none of that is flint
@@carmineredd1198 I don't think you know as much as you think lmao
@@Ibringitthefuckdown i only know what i read in the books that i write
@@carmineredd1198 That would certainly help to explain your ignorance, thanks for letting the rest of us know!
OMG I REMEMBER YOU BACK FROM STOUT FIELD
She acts like she knows every little thing. But she really doesn't
Do your studies or education exceed hers? Just wondering.
It is possible some were on arrows, accounts of bows being 100+ lbs, the Spaniards could not even draw the bow and the native men and young lads could pull them at full draw amd even past the ear, so I beleive its possible they could have made bigger arrows that could easily been trusted with such a strong bow
That is a magnificent point. I’ve found some curiously large arrowheads that were shaped in such a way that I believe they were projectile points.
That hand mano IS NOT A GEOFACT !!
I'd bring it home if I'd found it. While some types of stone include banding that causes uneven erosion,from this video this piece doesn't seem to be that type. I tend to think the "handle"wasn't completely finished.
I've been finding tons of artifacts on my river property. Need help identifying some of my finds. Please help.
I’m not an expert but have recently done tons of research in an attempt to identify some of my own. I can try to help if you have a picture
@@thomash4950 sure. Let me gather some pics and ill get back to you...thanks!
@@Chatatuchi Sure thing, I'll keep an eye out for them
How do I add pictures on here?
@@Chatatuchi You could upload them to google images then send me the link if you'd like
She is right and much many archeologists/scientists will support her. People that disagree here... i'm very sorry for yours clueless. Try read about it more, and you will change your opinion. Books for clever, TV for stupid. Thats real true. СПАСИБО Michelle! You're don't guilt for stupid people. or how we say here 'The problem of the tribe the chieftain is not f..k'.
She claimed the beveled point was Flint, that was chert.
wouldn't ya know, they are the same thing...
@@Ibringitthefuckdown no they aren't. They're both microcrystalline versions of quartz. Not flint.
@@indoril9489 Calling a turd a rose doesn't make it smell any better. " Flint is reserved for such material that forms in chalk or marl. Flint is simply a type of chert. (At least this was the distinction that was made in the literature when I was a geology student 35+ years ago)." --International Gem Society
@@Ibringitthefuckdown Flint is a type of chert, true, but like you said "Flint is reserved for such material that forms in chalk or marl".
Sure, two different dogs are both dogs, but that doesn't make them the same breed. They are all chert sure, but the distinction is important, especially in archaeology.
Grinding stones
I've found a few things and can't find anyone to tell me if these things are ligit
those large stones to his right I believe I have among some others
Can you help identify things people have
In my area there are quite a few bedrock 🧱 mortared that are at least a foot deep wonder how many decades years etc it took to grind these down to this depth
1700?
Not nearly enough close ups to see what u talking about
I'm wondering if Ms. Greene is the daughter of Dr. Lance Greene at the Wright State anthropology department in Ohio. I have an interesting artifact that he needs to see. Maybe she would be interested too. This may be just the find of a lifetime.
This woman is clueless
Again!
Most perferators are made of bone.some perferatrators weremade of sharp thorns but not stone drills were made of stone. If a person has made all these things and tried them out then they were see what I mean
Hi ask? Did I hear her say 1000 years ago. That she found it ✍🏼
9 meters deep. 8-10 K bc
14:20 not a nature made, it's tool to cut flat roc
You can actully see markings on it
@@andrewlkozar I think I know how it's used. we have many and used to crash nots
Wow in Missouri and Illinois the archaeologists hate us , I found a Viking type brooch January 23 on a native American Late Woodland campsite they say it's modern lol ok
Pre Clovis artifacts are even harder to identify.
I can tell she has never used any of these tools LoL
well she isn’t a native american from 9 thousand years ago so idk why she would be using stone tools
“9,000 bc 9,000 years ago” what? Lol
9,000 BC = 11,000 yrs ago
Apparently she doesn't recognize the 2000+ years after Christ as important in our timeline. Also, I've yet to see an atlatl with a balancing or counterweight .
why not just have a video about arrow heads and spear tips.
Way are there so many experts in the comment section on these types of videos
Because most of the people who look for these types of videos already have varying degrees of background knowledge about the subject, which is what drew them to look for the videos. Some know a lot and some don't.
Thsts deff a pestle, maybe big foots lol
We’re not Indians and we’re not Native Americans. We’re older than both concepts. We’re the people, we’re the human beings.
John Trudell
She's great! I hope she is in more vids.
"atul-atul". Jeez. Give me a break. Which gumball machine did you get your "degree" at ?
I say “at-latl” is this correct?
"this is a hoe".... looks at girlfriend
I guess, flutes were msotly made out of birds' bones, as they are hollow inside, no?
Pestle? C'mon, it's very clear that was a man-made artifact, used for grinding. . . not "nature playing a trick on us". Wonderfully polished bottom, and worn handle. It just wasn't quite as finely-tuned as the smaller ones, and the rock was different (looked like granite). Could very well be a much earlier (cruder) example too. . .like all lithic artifacts, they've been refined over time.
What if the university gets all excited take scores of pics and the next time ur back they talking about varnish on the item I figured somebody with 43 years head of archeology department would have wasted all that time taking those pics I felt like that lady down in Mexico they blackballed I hate to put this in the closet so set on the narrative I wish somebody just wanted truth sad state of affairs
This woman is a fine example of learning inside a box, or from a book and having no real experience in the practical use of ancient tools. The celt for example is used to skin animals and cut meat. There's a big difference in size and the use marks on the artifacts from a celt to an ax.
@Mark Breland Yes, the ancient people of N. America used stone like slate that could be sharpened to a razor edge. Don't confuse an ax with a celt like many people do. Celts were never used to chop trees down, most are too small and made of material that will shatter if struck against a tree. The fat layer beteen the skin and meat is where a celt was used, to sepperate the skin from the meat, this is why the cutting edge on a celt is curved to fit the shape of the animals body as its being skinned.
She's not gonna explain the biface on the bevel.
Third piece I think.
How its worked on one side then flipped so only one side of each face is worked. He even asks tryingvto get her to elaborate and she just explains how thry know different styles map different times or areas.
She never gets to it.
I watch these to learn
But it's frustrating when you see "experts" that don't seem really into their work. Now I'm not saying she's no good , she's great
But he hints at explaining the style and she hovers around it to move on
"Native Americans, very sophisticated hunters"
Yeah... setting the land on fire so buffalo would run off a cliff. Very sophisticated.
Hahaha she is guessing talks like she knows what she is talking about. This was painful to watch. Atal Atal. Hahaha.
Personally I say it like “At-latl” What is the correct way to pronounce it?
@@thomash4950 I had to rewatch, I say at-latle too , OMG this was hard to watch again, she points out a 11000 yr old Dalton found in Indiana, but previously says Arrows didn't exist in the SW till 700 AD.....smh
@@adamarriaga5491 I'm willing to bet she bought her 'degree' for 80 bucks online haha
I can tell that she has a lot of knowledge, and I enjoy listening to her-as should anyone who wants to further their scope of knowledge. That being said however, she claims that “when Indians made something, they really made it”. That’s just not true. I’ve found, when hunting in flint rich areas, that a lot of artifacts are more crude. My theory is that a person is more likely to spend more time finely crafting a tool when they’ve had to trade for material from outside of their area (think Indians in Kansas using chert from the Texas panhandle). But the Indians that are spending time around quarries are less likely to finely craft tools because they have an abundance of material-readily available.
I thought something like that years ago so I asked my dad. He said, well there's lots of reasons for finding them like that. Some are ones made by young people learning. Some are made by lazy people, some people make decent ones, while others are true masters of the art. He said Indians aren't any different than we are Jimmy. And, some of those areas with lots of good materials were the perfect place to sit down and teach how to flint knap as you have lots of materials to start over with when you screw up. He showed me some of his early attempts and they weren't near as nice as what he made later on after practicing for years. Made a lot of sense after thinking about it.